/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>19646097
>General

>>19646097
Tried cardamom flatbreads a week ago. Worked pretty well.

Recipe for the curious
800 g strong wheat flour
50 g brown sugar
2 tbsp ground cardamom
1 tbsp salt
500 mL milk
25 g butter

Results are pretty good. Stood up well on its own even after being cooled. Flatbreads are massively underappreciated and keep much longer than loaf bread. Make more flatbread.

BREAD MACHINES:
---------------------------
Bread machines make it easy to bake bread. They've even improved over the years to make proper sandwich load sizes so that you can make your own sandwich bread. Super easy, takes all the work out of bread making. The downside is the little hole it makes and the limitation on bread types (more expensive ones do more things).

The good thing about a bread machine is it will show you what proper bread tastes like, as long as you feed it live yeast. The other great thing is it makes and proofs dough, so if you want to make bread regularly, it can replace a stand mixer as a cheaper option for auto-mixing stuff.

The downside is you are limited to french, white, milk bread, and cake/jam settings. Doing things like rye or other odd breads are difficult.

The jam setting is a joke - just do it in a pan. It works, but it's still a joke.

PROOFING:
-----------------
Room temperature is a slow proof, and it is vague as various people consider different temps "room temp". There is an official scientific definition, but it is not used in baking. Ovens have a proofing mode where it hold the temp at like 110-120 deg to properly proof dough, and this is what you want to use most of the time. It lets the yeasty boys get to work.

Cold proofing requires a fridge and many hours. It develops more flavor but takes 24-48 hours to get similar proofs.

Remember to use hot water - the "lukewarm" designation is BS, it needs to be 110F or so. Cold tap water will not activate the yeasty boys. Don't use boiling water - that will kill them.
Official Product Temps:
>100°–110°F = Active Dry Yeast.
>120°–130°F = RapidRise and Bread Machine Yeast

>>19646130
Bread machines are fucking goated. Have an old ass Russell Hobbs one and as long as you help it a tiny bit during the mixing phase the bread is perfect every time

>>19646105
Yes, welcome
Please talk about bread
>>19646122
Thank you for sharing. The standout in your recipe is cardamom. I've drank Arabian coffee with cardamom in it, but aside from that I'm unfamiliar with it.
Can you tell us about it and how it goes with bread?

>>19646159
Cardamom is a godly spice when you put in the work to fresh grind it. It has a very 'warm' spice taste with additional pine flavour, alongside a pleasant floral aroma. It goes very well with bread, especially bread with a little sugar in it.

>>19646240
I think you're describing a niche method and niche spice.

I keep getting water in the bottom of my bread pan after baking. I’m using the King Arthur recipe for simple bread, but using a pan instead of a sheet. What am I doing wrong here?

>>19646671
There shouldn't be any water after

>>19646562
You’re not wrong, but this thread is going to get stale if we just talk classics. I like to be adventurous and try new things, and I like hearing what others do.

>>19646097
i tried a poolish for the first time, the rolls came out good but not necessarily any better then my quick dough

>>19646755
I'll bump the thread anon. I took the chef pill probably a few months ago and have slowly learned to cook good stuff. I generally eat a lot of stew, which only has a few carbs, many of which are from fibre. Eating bread that isn't home made pizza or biscuits sounds weird to me.

However, I have a weird fascination with the bread maker and kinda wanna start. What would I do with the bread though? Maybe cinnamon bread to have a few slices of French toast? What are healthy ways to add variety to my diet? What are low cost ways to begin, so that I can take the bread pill?

>>19646097
My dad is a baker. I wonder if I should've gotten into it

>>19646857
to late now, embrace your decisions and enjoy your hey burger

Made molasses bread yesterday.
Fluffy as fuck almost like panettone

Professional bread baker, here. Monday shift is always slow so feel free to ask any questions and I'll see if I can respond at some point.

Pic is some pepita polenta loaves from a few weeks back.

>>19647074
How the fuck do I make rolled/stuffed breads that contain the stuff properly without opening/collapsing before or during cooking

I made homemade hamburger buns once and they came out flat as shit. Any tips for not sucking and also better flavor?

I don't think I folded them under or some shit. Idk

>>19647080
Got any examples and how they went wrong?
>>19647098
Could be anything from underdevelopment to over proofing. Make sure your yeast is good and mix the fuck out of your dough, it should be able to stand up to it. Pic is our burger bun recipe for reference.

>>19647129
More like chinese-style stuffed breads. I live in the sticks now and I'm craving them sometimes but I can't be assed to drive back into the city to get them.
Also tried other things with no recipes, I wing most of my baking and surprisingly it usually comes out decent but stuffed ones always got fucked up

>>19647129
I’m thinking overproofing, I think I let them out covered overnight it’s been like a year. But after proofing it had me like crimp the bottom or something. I obviously need to try again and yeah I should by a jar of yeast instead of the shitty packets

>>19647165
I'm not personally as experienced with these but rolling your dough out flat, dolloping on the stuffing, pinching the bottom shut, and then rounding it against the table with the pinched side down and the palm of your hand over the entire thing working in a circular motion should do it. You should feel it tighten up as the movement of your hand rolls the edges under.

How viable is 100% whole grain bread?

>>19647250
Very, depending on what you're looking for. Volkornbrot is one of my favorite things to make.

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/vollkornbrot-recipe

100% whole wheat miches are also fun things to experiment with.

>>19647229
will try, thanks
now that I think about it I probably tried to just join the doughs while they were still a bit floury and my stupid ass should've just wet the edges a bit

>>19646806
If you want to do cinnamon toast bread you could try adding cinnamon, raisins, and a few eggs to the dough. Raisin bread is great for toasting. Personally, when I make plain white bread, I like to use it for toasted sandwiches. Homemade bread is usually a bit denser so it remains chewy in the middle. Whether this is a good thing or not is personal preference but I like the crunchy exterior with soft bread interior.

I made baguette's yesterday. Turned out pretty well.

>>19647810
i remember when i was experimenting with different ways to score the bread, found out to go against all advice and score before the final rise so i don't deflate the bread because even with a new double edge razor oiled up it still snagged and fucked my shit up

>>19647810
bro i can't recommend a perforated roll pan enough
picrel is my first attempt (bad) but they quickly got better

>>19647810
>>19647972
from that to this
it helps alot and they're only like $10 just make sure it's good for 450f otherwise its only good for soft sub rolls and not baguettes

I’ve been trying to make sourdough, it always turns out kind of dense and has a weird texture (tastes okay though), I think I need to shape it better and maybe get a dutch oven since the water pan method doesn’t seem to generate much steam

Tried making Soda Bread the other day, but the bread was way too loose, added flour over and over and it just stayed super loose
eventually said fuck it and put it on a cookie sheet, baked it, and it came out not risen much at all and needed salt, didnt compensate for the extra flour added
honestly it had a sort of biscotti texture / taste

>>19648038
>water pan method doesn’t seem to generate much steam

Gotta put something more in the pan which can evaporate the heat better. Cheapest alternative is rolled up towels. I was lucky getting some "volcano" rocks from some other crap my parents had laying around. They heat up a ton, are quite porous and evaporate the boiling water rapidly. Nothing really beats dutch ovens though.

>>19646097
I have a pullman loaf pan. What kinds of bread can I make in it? Any recipe that is loaf shaped? Should I go with basic white? French bread?

>>19647074
How much does the look of the product matter? I know that to some extent the bakery products have to be at least somewhat photogenic, but how much does it matter for selling to the public? Do they care about the overall quality more? Do loaves or other items still sell if they look good but don't taste as good or aren't as good when they're cut open?

>>19648976
Not that anon but it's a significant portion of people that buy majority based on looks alone. They judge a lot of the quality through how it looks. It's also the case with bread that getting a proper rise, which is achieved partially through scoring, indicating the quality of the bread. Something scored but flat shows lack of rise which indicated other problems with the dough. People buying wine look a lot on the labeling.

>>19648966
Do this.
>>19647255

>>19649057
So it is possible to make mediocre bread that looks good and still make sales? Do the sales fall off after they try it, or are they vapid enough to keep buying it because it looks good?

>>19647074
Do you have a favorite recipe for lazy cunts like me that want quality bread within a few hours? I found some youtube recipes for "artisan" bread that actually look pretty good. I tried making hardtack but I just can't seem to get it right, always tastes like shit. It's like 5 bucks for a loaf of total garbage, it's getting ridiculous. I love sourdough, is there a way to make sourdough-like bread without the hassle of the sourdough starter and everything? Or just generally what's the best easy non-shit bread recipe that doesn't require some culture?

>>19649820
I don't believe most people would even go for what could be called "quality bread" over whatever taste they acquired as kids. Which could be whatever trashy bread in imagination. Even this place has a lot of hate for "big stupid holes in the bread" which indicates a proper fermentation process.
So yeah, you can totally smash the competition with decent bread that looks appealing to enough people over high quality manually made high protein sourdoughs.

>>19649937
NTA but I don't believe you can make decent sourdough "within a few hours". That's basically just the bulk rise stage. Maybe if you let it sit in peak warmth so it ferments really fast but I'm almost certain that will cause other problems.

I solve this by freezing my sourdough breads. Even really old ones can be revived by wrapping in foil, brushing with water and slapping it in the oven for 20min.

https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Beach-Stainless-Planetary-63326/dp/B00BOU9T5M

considering this as babby's first stand mixer. I figure this one is well reviewed but also cheap enough that I won't feel like I wasted a bunch of money if I don't use it that much. any thoughts or alternatives around that price?

>>19650698
Good to know, thanks

>>19646097
So if a recipe wants me to use a dutch oven what kind should I get? Does it matter?

>>19647074
Still waiting on that recipe. I don’t forget >:(

>>19651047
5qt cast iron combo cooker from Lodge is best for bread. Alternatively, you can get an enameled dutch oven which is better for general use, as there’s no seasoning to worry about, a larger surface area for cooking, and usually greater than 5qt in volume (just make sure it has an oven safe handle on the lid—if it doesn’t, get a different dutch oven or replace the handle.)
The differences come down to how you place the dough into the dutch oven. In the combo cooker, you leave the lid/skillet on the bottom. This makes it so you can easily load your dough from <2 inches above the surface, which means it’s very easy to place the dough exactly where you want it without fear of burning yourself or fucking up the placement. In an enameled dutch oven, you’re loading the dough from several times that height, deep into a pot that will absolutely destroy your skin if you touch it. Most people load the dough on parchment paper for enameled, which helps alleviate the issue of burning yourself.
This provides another problem, though, as the parchment paper is a barrier between the metal and the dough. It’s not a huge difference, but it is a difference nonetheless. The lower sides of the combo cooker also mean that once the lid/pot is removed, it’s easier for steam to escape and for your crust to develop. Again, though, not a huge difference.
Also, combo cookers are relatively cheap, and I personally use the skillet portion quite a lot, and the pot for an occasional deep fry.
Overall, if you don’t already have an enameled dutch oven, it is probably worth investing in if you don’t have the money, though, as they are way more all-purpose. Whichever one you go with, you can make great bread that anyone would enjoy. GL, anon

>>19651259
Ah I wish I waited longer to get something I just went with a lodge cast iron 5qt dutch oven and not the combo cooker. I'm really only interested in making bread atm so as long as it works well enough it'll be fine for me. I made a sourdough starter recently and I've been wanting to use it more, and that means taking the discard for tasty bread, won't lie I don't have too much experience in much of anything but I'm gonna learn a few things.

>>19650759
Look on Faceberg Marketplace, Craigslist or a local pawn shop for a used KitchenAid.

Which temps do you use to cook your sourdoughs? Different for a dutch oven or just on a tray?

>>19651959
I usually do between 400 and 425 on a sheet but I don't like mine to get too dark, no idea what the normal is. I have issues with my scoring usually.

I made a lot of sourdough pizza dough, but it never seems to rise enough. Yeasted dough rises.so much better but the texture and flavour are lacking, so I want to try coming up with a receipe that uses both.

>>19651959
Crusty loaves at 500, 550 if your oven goes that high, pre-heated dutch oven. If it's a large loaf I'll turn the heat down a bit after putting in the dutch oven.

>>19646097
Made a lil snack with some leftover dough

Mix/knead by hand purists report in

>>19653313
chef john you're slippin but after all you're the street hoe of you're left over dough

>>19653753
I find it more enjoyable to make bread by hand, and that’s what I do the vast majority of the time. However, if I want a tighter crumb or I’m making an enriched dough with a lot of butter, I’m turning to my stand mixer.

>>19653753
I do stretch and fold for every recepie ever because I don't have a stand mixer and I never had anything turn out when hand kneading

>be Big Cereal
>grow unimaginable yield of wheat seasonally
>bag the wheat with all of the gross extranuous fibers intact
>USDA shills your "whole wheat" as health food
>bag some without the gross bits
>dye some of it white and upcharge on what you don't
>sell some of it as "bread flour" at an even higher price, because fuck you idiot
Remember: if you aren't growing your own wheat, you're getting taken for a ride.

>>19646097
Bump.
I usually bake on the weekends. I'll post results if this is still up.

>>19657208
at this rate it will be

>>19646097
going to be making bread but don't know exactly how or what the ratios are.
Here is the info I do have

730g weight of finished bread
32% cracked rye berries 234g
27% rye flour 191g
2.6% red rye fermented 19g
0.3% cumin seeds 2.2g
salt 7.3g
sugar? do I even need to?


I have all the ingredients. Just need to figure out how much water to use.
Then how to mix and proof this stuff.

Pic related, rye starter I'm growing from scratch.

>>19652232
try a recipe with a pre-ferment (like a poolish, but with sourdough) and additional yeast when mixing in the fresh flour/water/salt.
that's how most breads in germany are made in traditional bakeries that still do sourdough. especially breads with low amounts of wheat flour.

>>19658171
made some pancakes out of the starter discard, toasted it afterwards. it was okay, had some sourness to it, the outside was nice but the center was a tad too soft for me, probably could have toasted it more over a longer period of time to get it to dry out, or leave it out for a day and not eat it right after making it.

I'm making sourdough foccacia. The sourdough is soon reaching its peak.
I'll be using my moms wobbly 60s knead machine to handle the 100% hydration.

>>19661786
post pics

>>19661791
For you anon, I will.
Here's the sourdough in question. Soon to triple in size. Fed it local grown rough ground whole wheat and some 50/50 white wheat and rye. Been feeding it in room temp for two days prior.

>>19661786
Is a kneading machine useful for sourdough? I get the impression that the rising time is usually long enough for the dough to develop the gluten network by itself

>>19661829
I keep getting shitty flat dough if I don't knead it severely at the mixing stage. Maybe my room temp is too hot and it overferments during the bulk rise where I fold it every 20-30 minutes 3-4 times or something though. I usually do around 70% hydration with 30 minutes of autolyse.

100% hydration is too much pain in the ass to knead for 20+ minutes, no matter the method used.

>>19661849
Ok, I may have the same problem actually
I wonder if it's feasible to put the dough in and out of the fridge regularly (like 10 min in the fridge, 20 outside) to approximate a colder temperature

>>19661865
I think the proper solution is to use less sourdough % but I've just been lazy trying things.

>>19661849
you don't need to knead it more you need to have more tension when you're doing the final shaping

>>19662039
I don't think so because the final shaping is made the same but ends up different.
In any case, recommend a batard shape method? It's easier to shape bouls but I find oblong loaves much more useful.

>>19661829
Sourdough and commercial yeast are basically the same when it comes to developing gluten. With the right technique, you can work with really any hydration of bread, sourdough or otherwise.
In my opinion, machine mixing helps a lot with doughs that have a lot of butter, just because it’s tedious. Also they’re good at making doughs with tight crumbs. However, most people don’t make enriched sourdough (let alone with brioche-levels of butter) and want pretty open crumbs.
If you wanna get into sourdough and/or higher hydration doughs, here are some good techniques to look into: stretch and folding, coil folding, and slap and folding (my least favorite of the 3, but a lot of people swear by it.)

Has anyone made no-knead bread but with all purpose flour?

>>19662564
yea but keep in mind King Arthur AP protein level is equal to most other brands bread flour

>>19646097
>https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/the-easiest-loaf-of-bread-youll-ever-bake-recipe
>uses cornmeal instead of semolina to coat the pan
you should cram your good goy loaf into your anus.

>>19662680
works just as good and most new bakers don't have semolina but a lot do have corn meal

>>19661801
Update. Have to hold the machine down or it will "escape" to the floor.

>>19662732
The dough is coming along.

>>19662736
The dough is on the tray. Looks like crap but it's bubbling nicely until I let it retard in the fridge until tomorrow.

>>19662985
I also decided to throw in some hokkaido rolls squashed together in a tin. They will rise in room temp until the morning.

>>19662680
Yeah, a few grams of cornmeal is going to fucking kill you. Thank you for your contribution to this thread, anon!

>>19662990
Rising overnight at room temp? Unless you’re beginning with a relatively inactive starter, barely using any of it, and using cold as fuck ingredients, it seems hard to believe they won’t overproof. Have you done this before? (Legit question, not flaming. I’m interested to see if it works.)

>>19662680
you sound like one of those 1950s housewives but much more stupid

>>19663047
It's a very rich dough (butter, eggs, sugar, salt, tangzhong) and yeah the starter amount is smaller than normal. It should probably be even smaller now that I think about it. I just know that if I try to cold ferment it'll take over two days to reach maturity. Instead of over night.
By pure chance, I only used the starter that was remaining from the foccacia, which didn't have time to rise again. So that might work in my favor. It does get noticeably more sour than normal but the richness really does dampen it a lot.
I guess I could set a wake up clock in like 5 hours to put in the fridge and just return to bed but eh.

Pic related is how it usually turns out.

>>19662564
I've been pilled that non-bread flour without higher levels of protein lessen rise and gluten structure a whole bunch = flatter bread especially on higher hydration. Haven't actually made a comparison though. Any baked bread tastes good so don't let that stop you though.

>>19658171
any one?

>>19663369
Confused by your post.
When you say "730g weight of finished bread" and list percentages, did you leave out the wheat flour? Also, why do you seem to have specific quantities for most ingredients but not know things like the quantity of water and whether or not it needs sugar?

>>19663425
No I didn't leave out wheat flour.
>why finished weight and percentages
because thats all I know about it, this is the info I have. Now I have to figure out how much of the ingredients I should use and how much water I should use based on that info.
I am too much of a newbie to know what the correct ratios would be. So I 'm hoping somebody who is experienced in bread making can look at that mess and give me hints on what a probable ratio is.

>>19663455
May I ask why you're going with a recipe that seems poorly written, or you're missing info from? I can try to help a bit but desu it would be better to just follow something else.

>>19663481
>May I ask why you're going with a recipe that seems poorly written, or you're missing info from?
Because the result it produces is what I like and want to achieve.
Additional info that may or may not help
Pic related how it looks finished.
It was prepared for 25 hours, I'm assuming it was proofed slowly in a fridge to get more of the flavor develop rather than a fast rise. Alternatively maybe a certain portion is over proofed to let the sour flavor to develop and then mixed in with the main dough with some new rye flour to have some rise.
No commercial yeast
100% rye, no wheat.

>>19663522
Additionally:
My current guess is to make
Rye pre ferment, which is lets say 30% of rye sourdough that I will let ferment for 25 hour room temp..
32% soaking of the rye berries in water for 25 hours
And the last 38% will be water and rye flour mixed in and used to develop a rise in the dough.