/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>19571088
I made that ragu genovese once where it's basically like 20 onions cooked down to a paste with chunks of beef and some seasonings.

by the time it's done it's basically like pulled beef in a rich sloppa form and you can't even tell 90% of the pot used to even be onions. i love this old and less popular shit, especially when it really pays off

>>19571099
Needs more sloppa

>>19571088
Here is THE de facto authentic bolognese recipe.

tomato is a must in spaghetti meat sauce for me because tomato tastes so delicious with pasta, or beef, or both that it's borderline depressing to not use more of it in a spaghetti meat sauce.

The reason why historically there was no tomato in the sauce isn't because the Italians deemed it unworthy of the sauce or tasting better without it. It's because those early meat sauce recipes predate the arrival of tomatoes in Italy.
Once the Italians got their hands on tomatoes and tomato sauce they immediately started using it in their food across tons of Italian dishes including bolognese.

>>19571105
yeah for some reason I took the photo after I ate half of it. I just looked for a better photo but I guess I didn't document this one well.

So, enjoy a jiff of Fuckface taking a nap instead :3

>>19571108
that's basically what I used except for the 200g tomatoes and 50/50 beef pork.
the key is to brown the meat first and not starting with the vegetables if you want a good meat ragu. you slowly extract all the delicious fat from the pancetta first while you chop up your veggies, add a little olive oil after like 10 minutes and then you brown the meat until the bottom of your pan is begging for a deglacing. you really should use some good wine here that you like as you can't dilute everything with tomato sauce like you normally would. add veal stock and wait 3 hours

>>19571118
it looked good boss

>>19571099
this sounds great anon. what's the ratio like once all the water evaporates? 60% onions, 40% meat?

>>19571099
So just onions, beef chunks, and seasoning? No tomato? no stock?

>>19571115
>it's borderline depressing to not use more of it in a spaghetti meat sauce
that's what I used to think but if you brown the meat properly in some delicious fat (like pancetta or even bacon) and deglace all those brown bits... any tomato you add only dilutes the meat flavor

>>19571172
>any tomato you add only dilutes the meat flavor
This is not true at all. Maybe if you're adding a shitton of water or something to it but adding tomato enhances the flavor. There's a reason why the Italians started using tomato in bolognese sauce as soon as they got tomatoes in their country. It may be good without tomato, but it's better with tomatoes.

>>19571156
>>19571168
It ends up being maybe 50/50 I guess. I think there was some carrot in there too, it was a couple years ago.

I think I followed Chef John's recipe

https://youtu.be/2TJMqmscRS8

>>19571186
the same italians don't brown the meat and start with vegetables only drenched in olive oil before adding the meat until it turns grey lol
literally missing all the layers of flavor. if you skip all the browning and don't really have anything to deglace it's obvious that tomato will make your bland meat/veggie combo better

>>19571099
pasta looks kinda dry pal, needed finishing with some pasta water and olive oil, looks like you just drained the pasta and mixed in the ragu

>>19571290
yeah

>>19571207
>the same italians don't brown the meat and start with vegetables only drenched in olive oil before adding the meat until it turns grey lol
now you're just lying

and you're now arguing a completely different point and changing the subject. Nobody but you said "skipping the browning and deglazing."

Adding tomato and browning/deglazing the meat can both be done in the same sauce. Don't know why you're acting like those two are exclusive other than you're just an idiot who doesn't know how to think straight.

>>19571192
Ah I figured it was that chef john recipe. Looks pretty good. It's almost like french onion soup pasta sauce except without the onions being caramelized.

>>19571502
and simmering for like 10 fucking hours. it was pretty damn good though

>>19571498
>now you're just lying
I'm not. that's what almost every italian does who makes a tomato based ragu bolognese. it's just like with goulash. when there's a flavorful sauce you don't really need the browning because it won't make the ragu any better. when you make a meat based ragu bolognese you have to try a lot harder because the meat really needs layers of flavor when you can't dilute it with tomato. it's like espresso vs latte macchiato

>>19571088
>ragu bolognese
i've always understood bolognese to be a stewed mire poix and meat sauce and ragu to be a stewed mire poix and meat sauce with added cream/milk.
can i get your recipe source?

>>19571088
>authentic ragu
middle ages slop pretending to be half decent
I drop better looking things in my toilet daily

>>19571088
>this meat ragu is so much better than the tomato based spaghetti bolognese I've been fed all these years
Duh? Bolognese is a meat pasta dish. Of course it tastes better when you don't go full retard on the ingredient ratios.

Browning, pork/beef ratio and tomato amount are important but secondary factors as long as you reduce at least half a liter of red wine into the sauce its gonna turn out

>>19571099
I've done the Chef John Genovese too and really love it. Whenever I do it, I set up an entire pot literally filled to the brim with onions/beef/veggies on the stove in the morning and let it simmer down throughout the whole day. If you have the patience, ragouts like this really are spectacular and tough to beat in terms of effort and money spent vs the results you get.

I'd also recommend his Hungarian Goulash version. It's a pretty basic and simple one but all the more better for it.

>>19571172
Tomato still adds depth. Same reason it's used in sauce espagnole/demi glace.

>>19571498
>now you're just lying
He isn't. I've seen plenty of traditional recipes from old school and renowned Italian chefs who make the soffritto first and add the meat to that making real browning impossible since the pan is wet with soffritto, instead they just cook it until it's done. The better way is to properly brown/char the meat in a dry (besides some oil) pan separately while the vegetables are sweating. Not saying all Italians do this, but it is widely done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qy6HNqxhKU
I love Gennaro by the way, just chose this video to illustrate that guy's point.

>>19572288
>Hungarian Goulash
I've seen that one too but haven't made it. Honestly I was planning on doing the ragout again because I loved it so much. Maybe I'll pivot and try the goulasch next time instead

>>19572283
>as long as you reduce at least half a liter of red wine
Red wine is honestly the better choice but you have to know your shit about wine. I've ruined a handful of bologneses before by picking the wrong wine which makes the end dish taste dry and bitter. White wine is traditional and more widely used probably since it's a lot safer, green grapes being a lot less tannic you could use basically any white and get away with it.

>>19572375
that's just theme cooking for the camera and doing things done quickly for the sake of time, not really giving a shit about details.

or it's just, as J Kenji Lopez Alt euphemistically refers to it, "restaurant efficiency" which means cooks whose main experience in cooking is in restaurant kitchens where the cooks regularly cut corners and sacrifice quality just to get the food done faster.

It doesn't mean that's how the sauce is supposed to be made or how real cooks make it at home traditionally.

>>19572375
that's just them cooking for the camera and doing things done quickly for the sake of time, not really giving a shit about details.

or it's just, as J Kenji Lopez Alt euphemistically refers to it, "restaurant efficiency" which means cooks whose main experience in cooking is in restaurant kitchens where the cooks regularly cut corners and sacrifice quality just to get the food done faster.

It doesn't mean that's how the sauce is supposed to be made or how real cooks make it at home traditionally.

>>19572283
>>19572385
>White wine is traditional and more widely used
because decent good white wine is much much cheaper. you can't get decent red wine at the same price. you always have to pay at least double with red to get something that won't be as good

>>19572702
decent red wine doesn't exist at all, anon

>>19572385
Got news for you anon, white wines aren’t made from green grapes. You are right you really don’t know anything about wine.

>>19572385
>any white wine
Ok Anon please make it with a sauternes next time

>>19571088
from my last batch. i used homeground pork belly and beef cheek for this one

>>19572742
I like some cabernet sauvignon and syrah as long as it's not from meme countries like chile, macedonia or romania.
french and australian syrah are the safest bets, italian is kinda hit and miss.

with white wine it's completely different, even countries like germany or austria produce very nice white wine at a low price. mostly riesling and sauvignon blanc

>>19572779
now that's some rich mæty sauce.

also tell me how the hell you shaved your cheese? I use a zester sometimes and other times a box grater but it never has that angelic flat curl to it. Looks nice and I bet that cures a hangover in like 4 seconds

>>19572779
looks great. the only thing I would change would be using a microplane

>>19571088
It's probably delicious for you because it's novel. Bolognese has much more flavor from the tomatos. It's tastier, but heavier. Eat with variety anon

>>19572766
You obviously can make white wine with green grapes. What retards don't know is that you can use red grapes too.

>>19571088
try it with paccheri

>>19572072
>>19572824
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvROmO5ODnQ

I used this as a base but I didn't start with olive oil. I waited a really long time for the chunky pancetta to render out its fat before adding a little more olive oil. just like you would make carbonara with guanciale basically except here you should add olive oil at the end because you'll have to brown a lot of meat and some veggies. I also used good white wine (not boxed) and veal stock instead. one big FRESH garlic clove added more depth without being overpowering but I added it separately at the end and fried it in fat for about 40 seconds before deglacing.

here's how you can make it underwhelming compared to tomato based ragu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnYpoTM9ihc

note how there is basically nothing to deglace because he wasted the pancetta on the veggies and used tiny bits that barely gave him any of that fat that is essential to give your meat some real delicious flavor. he says that he's waiting for the pancetta to slowly render out its fat but doesn't actually do it lol

>>19572791
>>19572802
REALLY fine microplane, actually

OP here. I made ragu bolognese again because I was so excited to improve it. used better ingredients this time. really nice cabernet sauvignon red wine that was definitely a step up from the white wine I used yesterday, deglaced 3 times. also used mutti veggie paste instead which tastes much better than the regular one but the ragu turned out much worse than yesterday, it's not even comparable.
I'm not sure what happened. I don't think the fresh garlic burned. the only thing I can think of is that I may have used too much wine so the wine to stock ratio was fucked. yesterday I used about 1 part wine, 2 parts stock. today it was about 50/50 and I deglaced before even adding the veggies. fuck this is confusing

>>19571088
>have you ever eaten meat ragu bolognese?
Yep, made it myself, both versions.

a) both are miles better than any slop served at restaurants or in a jar/can
b) I do prefer the meat one to the tomato one, just a bit - due to the acid reflux the tomato one tends to give me.

I also ran the experiment where I blended it to get a uniform texture on a jar of leftovers - it fucking sucks, don't do it. Chunks >>>> smooth.

I've also done all beef or all pork versions, and I can't really tell much of a difference from the blend of meats to the all one kind. I can tell, but it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the dish. Wine is DEFINITELY a key flavor booster, skipped it once and regretted it (didn't have it on hand).

>>19573870
what wine vs stock ratio do you usually go with?

>>19573795
you gotta cook down red wine a looong time

>>19573795
The quality of the wine isn't as important as the type of wine, especially with reds. You could use practically any white in almost any dish and it will work, they are more subtle and inoffensive. Reds are a lot bolder and using the wrong one can completely ruin your dish with bitterness and off notes even if it's a really high quality wine that's great to drink. I don't know enough about wine to choose the right one so I stick to whites for things like bolognese.

>>19574409
thanks that's probably what I did wrong. I deglaced 3 times and I'm not sure I cooked it long enough the last time I deglaced it. I definitely cooked the white wine longer yesterday when I only deglaced once.
I wouldn't do it 3x again because it just takes too long. maybe 2x tops. not sure it if it's better to deglace the meat before adding the veggies. probably not because there's so much water in them

>>19574629
is cabernet sauvignon not suitable for ragu bolognese? it's the only red whine I like besides syrah which would be my second choice

On this subject I made something bolognese-ish for the first time. Main things I wish I did differently are that I shouldn't have reduced it as much and left it a bit wetter, and I should have broken up the meat more, I couldn't get both the spaghetti and meat in the same bite because the chunks were so big winding the spaghetti up forced them out.

>>19575045
>using spaghetti for bolognese
not even worth reading that post

>>19575129
I said bolognese-ish

>>19575134
stop talking like a woman. nobody respects a man that says shit like "-ish"

>>19575141
I respect myself and everyone else is irrelevant

>>19572868
I don't like thick pasta at all. the consistency of stuff like rigatoni or penne drives me crazy. I don't get why people would ever use that over tagliatelle or similar. those thick pasta types have no finesse, there is no balance because you feel like your dish is mostly noodles and not what the dish is really all about

>>19575033
I have a feeling it's more complex than that, down to the specific vintage and region and what not, like I said I don't know enough about wine to get it right so I stick with white wine because you pretty much can't go wrong.

>>19575045
that's why you eat bolognese with tagliatelle or penne or something that actually holds it. you have now learned why eating spaghetti with bolognese is not usually advised.

>>19571108
Wait, do they want me to puree the sauce AFTER adding the meat?

>>19576008
ignore that outdated shit

>>19576008
Where does it mention pureeing the sauce?

>>19576977
Shush, zoomer.

>>19571108
The Pancetta is a must! My bolognese tastes way better with it.

>>19577148
Do you use fresh pork pancetta or the permitted cured stuff?

>>19575161
You're undercooking it. Al dente is important for an enjoyable pasta experience but you can't cook penne the same as you cook spaghetti or tagliatelle, it has to be softer.

>>19577429
I cook it for 13 minutes if it says 13 minutes. it's not some cheap pasta either. I always buy bronze stuff like garofalo or de cecco

>>19576008
I think it means add the tomato puree anon, not to puree the sauce mixture itself.

>>19577181
does anyone outside of italy actually get fresh pancetta and if yes how much does that cost you per pound or kg?

>>19577181
i have no idea. there is only one type of pancetta here in germoney, so i guess it‘s not „fresh“? don‘t care, still fucking great in bolognese.

>>19578924
the one from HIT? 6.50€ for 300g is pretty brutal considering the price of slightly smoked bacon

>>19578939
my local edeka sells some pancetta from a small manufacturer from süd-tirol. is good, but only in small amounts. if you put too much in the bolognese, the flavour gets too intense and it doesn‘t taste like a real bolognese anymore. long cooking time is a must to release the flavour into the ragu.

>>19571118
Are you the owner of Fuckface? I've seen that mf around

Btw all pasta dishes are easy as shit and no adult should be messing them up

>>19580352
>local edeka sells some pancetta from a small manufacturer from süd-tirol
how much is it?
do they have guanciale as well?

>>19577148
I like bacon better than pancetta and nobody has ever been able to explain why bacon shouldn't be used over pancetta in bolognese other than the "traditional" bs

I followed a similar recipe and was worried it would be a bit bland, I added some seasonings and it was really nice.
Is there any reason I shouldnt?

>>19571149
I'm confused as this is a post about good food on /ck? I thought this board was about fast food and energy drinks.

>>19571108
Wait am I understanding this that you blend the portion with the meat?

>>19571088
climate change though

>>19582218
if your bacon's smoked, then that can change the flavor noticeably compared to the standard version (maybe for the better, but that's up to taste)

>>19584435
I believe it is specifically talking about the tomatoes. I thought the same thing, but a puree is specific to fruits and vegetables.

>>19584430
The person you're replying to knows fuck all about ragu. And neither do you. Why are you wasting your time here?

What seasoning do you add to your bolognese?

>>19585413
Why are you?

>>19571192
Can't stand this motherfucker's voice

>>19581068
I was anon. Sadly she died about a year ago :[

It needs wild mushrooms, believe me you wont regret adding wild mushrooms.

>>19584430
only during amerilard hours. low quality fast food chains dominate their lives lol

>>19586455
your mom seems to stand it just fine.