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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/ck/ - Food & Cooking


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19231856 No.19231856 [Reply] [Original]

Recommend a good knife to get for someone starting out who wants a good quality knife but not interested in memes.

>> No.19231870 [DELETED] 

Any chinkshit knife + learning how to sharpen a blade

>> No.19231872

>>19231856
https://www.amazon.com/DALSTRONG-Chefs-Knife-Japanese-Hammered/dp/B01FXYVDEO

You should also be more concerned with a method of sharpening and maintaining it. All knives dull with use.

>> No.19231911

>>19231856
https://www.amazon.com/Dexter-Russell-S145-10PCP-Chefs-S145-8PCP-SANI-SAFE/dp/B004NG98SM/

>> No.19231917

>>19231872
>dalstrong
don't lie to people just because they're naive

>> No.19231919

>>19231856
Just get a Victorinox

>> No.19231920
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19231920

victorinox 8 inch chef knife find it for 30 dollars or less. highest quality knife for lowest price outside of a yard sale. all other answers are wrong.

>> No.19231928

I use a Wusthof classic chef knife for most tasks. It’s probably ten years old, sharpens up great with a simple draw-through ceramic sharpener.

>> No.19231939

>>19231872
The quality of the steel greatly affects ease of sharpening and how long it will keep an edge.

>> No.19232027
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19232027

>> No.19232051

>>19231920
I only see it for $53 on amazon where do you get an 8 incher for that cheap?

Also what about Misen? That's what a lot of youtube vids recommend and it's $85 right now

>> No.19232078

>>19232051
misen is a chinese made knife that tries to advertise that it's japanese steel. If youre going to get a japanese steel knife you may as well get one that's japanese made global is around the same price and actually used by some pros.

https://www.amazon.com/Global-G-2-inch-Chefs-Knife/dp/B00005OL44/?th=1

if you're willing to spend more i like this french made knife with olive wood handle from made in

https://madeincookware.com/products/8-inch-chef-knife/olive-wood

>> No.19232083

>>19232078
i mostly simp for the made in knife because i love olive wood but its around the same performance as the global

>> No.19232090

>>19232083
also with the steel type from the made in you will have to sharpen it more but it's easier to sharpen than japanese steel which tends to hold its edge longer than european and american steel

>> No.19232103

>>19232090
actually i went to double check and the made in hardness is around the same as the global so it should be the same with maintenance i just assumed the made in would use a softer steel

>> No.19232149

>>19232051
>where do you get an 8 incher for that cheap?
2015.

>> No.19232391
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19232391

https://www.macknife.com/products/chef-series-7-1-4-utility-knife

Decent price point even if it's over twice the price of a Victorinox for less knife, sharp out of the box, extremely easy to sharpen (can keep a decent edge with just a ceramic honing rod that shaves enough metal.) Have had mine for almost a decade without any issues, it's small and light enough to handle most finer applications but it's still long enough for grunt work.

>> No.19232421
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19232421

>>19231856
I need a new knife as well.

I’ll tell you what NOT to get- anything by Shun. Oh you’ll unbox it and think it’s the best knife ever created, but it will not hold an edge and I don’t care how respectful you are with it… it WILL chip. I should just throw mine away. It’s got all these ratty little chips but I spent a lot of money on it and hate to toss it.

>> No.19232707

Rada

>> No.19233535

>>19231856
Just get the Victorinox, and a honing rod.
Its the most recommended because it just werks.
Very thin blade, very comfortable handle, light.
The steel is soft, so it can be effectively resharpened on a standard honing rod and basicaally never touch a whetstone.

They're often on sale. Especially the 6.5" version.

>> No.19233561
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>>19232051
>https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-182200-0-Classic-Carving-Silver/dp/B0050DL74U
7.5" for $35.
Victorinox has a "Chef's Knife" and a "Carving Knife". The main difference is the shape. The Chef's is taller, the Carving is slimmer.
Pick your poison.

The Carving is often cheaper, but don't expect it to be so.

>> No.19233797

>>19231872
All Dalstrongs I've ever seen are absolutely garbage. Might as well be made of copper for how quickly they lose an edge.

>>19231911
Dexters are basically the same as Dalstrong but at least they don't try to dress up the cheap metal. Don't pay these prices for these pieces of crap either, that knife is $8 from sysco.

>>19232078
I've owned the G-2 for ten years and I cannot recommend it. It's just far, far to skinny to be used safely. The blade height at the heel is like 1.5 or 1.25 inches or something crazy like that. One of the nastiest cuts I've gotten was hitting bone in my finger trying to tap chop a small shallot while trying to rush some beurre blanc mid service with my G-2

>>19232391
This is a utility knife that sports the same concerns as the G-2 when trying to be used as a chef knife.

>>19232421
Shuns are good, the honesuki they make is one of my top knives of all time. That thing is amazing. They unfortunately do chip especially by people that are new to knives.

I have a lot of culinary accolades I could list but the most relevant one would be that I'm a former knife skills teacher to culinary students. The Victorinox is going to probably be your overall best bet for taking your first steps. I would buy a honing rod and a minosharp sharpener on amazon though for maintaining. A Henckles is a good option if you want to step up in quality and stay with german style knives. I find that Wusthofs are pretty horribly balanced, they put all the weight in the back of the handle which leads to wrist fatigue much quicker than with other knives. I like Miyabis a lot if you like japaanese style knives. If you want a dirt cheap, razor sharp little work knife, you should pick up a Kiwi brand thai kitchen knife.Those things are so shitty some little laotian women I used to work with a long time ago wore groves into the blades an inch from edge to edge by rubbing them in one spot on honing rods. They'll take a beating.

>> No.19234383

>>19231856
Just buy the Ikea knives. High-quality molybdenum steel, very cheap.

>> No.19234596

>>19233797
Wusthofs have the problem of 'heavier means its higher quality' so they leave every knife with a thick ass tang fit for a machete.

>> No.19234670
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19234670

>>19233797
Whether a blade height is dangerous is really down to the handle design, in my experience.
The chef knife I learned on was an Old Hickory (which I still recommend for anyone looking to try out their first carbon steel knife).
It is quite short for a chef's knife, but has a very slim handle, so you can comfortably tuck your fingers into the choil safely.

On the other hand, using the 7.5" Victorinox Chef's Knife (which is actually not the same as their '7.5" carving knife') I did nearly cut myself a few times because my hand had a tendency to slip underneath the blade because of how wide the handle was relative to blade height.
I have to significantly change my grip to use it safely, compared to the Old Hickory. Holding the knife further back.
It is not unsafe once you do that, but it requires you to be conscientious and careful when adapting.

>> No.19234675
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19234675

>>19234670
The difference between the 'Carving' and 'Chef' models.
Frankly, despite what I said above, I wouldn't recommend the 7.5" Chef to a newbie. The handle is too large for the blade height.
The carving model is definitely safer and gives more room for one's fingers.

>> No.19234698

>>19234675
I hate the vic handle. I'm a wa handle enjoyer, so it makes complete sense why.

>> No.19234725

>>19234698
I think it's great myself.
Even when elbow deep into butchering a deer or a mound of fish, it never starts to slip or slide. Never had any cramping either.
I also like that it doesn't need to be oiled like wood handles always have to be.

Its just the 'chef' handle combined with the smaller blade is not ideal.
The carving type handle is better.

>> No.19234969
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19234969

>>19234675
What about the 8"? Seems the knife blade is higher than the yellow in your pic.

>> No.19234996

>>19234969
The 8" is the classic.
Its a bit too big for my preferences, which is why I was looking at the 7.5" models. It is a bit too clumsy at times. The other reason being that you can get a 7.5" model for $30-35 vs $50 for the 8".
But it is entirely safe for your fingers. There is more than enough choil space for you to tuck your fingers into.

>> No.19235118

>>19234670
I was more referring to the danger to your guide hand when you try to use a thin knife as a chef's knife. Height at the heel is the max blade width. If you're using too thin a knife, you're going to expose your guide hand to the blade edge more often since you have less travel when making cuts.

>>19231856
OP, I retract my statement that the Victorinox is your best buy right now. I held off of recommending Cozzini because they're made in Italy and weren't the easiest to buy in America for a while if you weren't a restaurant. But now that I see you can get the 10'' chef knife on Amazon for dirt cheap, that has my full backing. These things are absolute tanks, sharpen very well, keep an edge for longer than you'd think, and most importantly are very safe due to the size. I had my old kitchen filled with these knives and we very rarely had any cooks cutting themselves. Buy this, fuck the Victorinox.
https://www.amazon.com/Chef-Knife-Cozzini-Cutlery-Imports/dp/B085RRX7H5?th=1

>> No.19235130
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19235130

>>19235118
Forgot pic with my G-2 for reference.

>> No.19235158
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19235158

>>19235118
>Cozzini
hmm, looks a bit heavy. must be the extra 2" on the blade?

>> No.19235168

>>19231920
Victorinox turned into an overpriced meme thanks to ATK promoting it.
If you want the same quality without the meme surcharge, get Mercer.

>> No.19235169

>>19231920
I've bought these as gifts for people multiple times. They're great and I don't even own one. I did order their cleaver though and I'm excited to try it.

>> No.19235171
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19235171

>>19231872
>dalstrong
at least make your bait be good bait

>> No.19235294

>>19231856
https://www.zwilling.com/us/zwilling-four-star-8-inch-chefs-knife-31071-203/31071-203-0.html?cgid=cutlery_chefs-knives

Henckels are good quality for how much you pay for them.

>> No.19235300

>>19235168
their price hasn't changed in 10 years though

>> No.19235306

>>19235158
I saw that as well on the ad. The knife actually weighs 8.2 oz and has a heel height of 2 5/8 inch.

>> No.19235318

>>19235294
That knife is one of my least favorite Henckles. Save yourself the money and buy the Mercer Genesis, it's a clone of that knife. You want the Pro line, they have great steel and better balance. But if you're going to bump yourself into that price range, just buy a Miyabi. I managed to get a Miyabi Mizu for $80 at the Henckles store and it's been a great knife for me.

>> No.19235331
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19235331

>>19231856
Don't get a small/small-ish knife. Your hand will become accustomed to your large knife in no time.

Victorinox is cheapest, and a respectable brand. I still use their small serrated knives. They're wonderful. I'd like to have a better handle though.

Zwilling/Henckels is good. Very reliable. Same company as Demeyere and Staub. All 3 are institutions in the business.

Wüsthof is in all respects the same, but family owned and it has won more awards. Same region of Germany, same steel, same design, same quality but a bit more expensive. It's the knife of choice for both German and Japanese chefs associations.

Global is a Japanese brand. They make knives that are noticeably sharper and lighter in your hand. They're quite a bit more expensive and they're more brittle: they wear down faster and are less forgiving when you toss them or, heaven forbid, drop them.

Oh and, don't sharpen your knife yourself. Get a professional to do it for you. Proper maintenance is the basis of all cooking. Webm related. It's what /ck/ knife owners do with their expensive Jap knives before and after they sharpen them. Do yourself a favour and don't become like that.

>> No.19235361

>>19235331
>posting gore

>> No.19235378

>>19235331
This webm has to be a joke, but I've seen so many videos of people peeling an onion with a knife rather than just pulling back the peel with their thumb & forefinger. Is there a reason for it, or is it just because it's faster if you don't have to set the knife down?

>> No.19235380

>>19235318
I don't own a Henkels personally, but my parents have a couple. My favorite knives are my shun premier santoku and nakiri, which are usually going to be out of the price range and beyond the care requirements most people buying their first nice knife have.

>> No.19235416

>>19235380
I used to own a 10'' Henckles pro, that thing was a beast. I sold it to a colleague when I left a restaurant though. My favorite knives are my Mizu chefs knife, my Mizu 5.5'' prep knife (reminds me of the old Shun Alton's Angles knives which were awesome), and my Global G-5 nakiri which I would say is pound-for-pound the best knife I've ever used. Unless I'm deboning meat, breaking down a fish, or carving, that's the knife I reach for first.

>> No.19235478

>>19235416
The only knife I'm looking to add as a present to myself once I start a new job is a 9.5" Miyabi kiritsuke. If for no other reason than I just love the way it looks.

>> No.19235495
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19235495

>>19231856
>butt

>> No.19235513

>>19235331
>get entry tier good knives
yes
>Victorinox
yes
>Jap knives
meh
>don't sharpen your knives yourself
??maybe not with the Jap knives but then also dont get Jap knives to start learning (yeah ik the techniques dont really transfer).
You should absolutely learn how to sharpen knives if you get German knives , try French Knives if the shape scare you

>> No.19235575

>>19235513
Only thing that super matters when it comes to sharpening your own knives is single bevel vs double bevel. There's plenty of Japanese knives that have double bevels now.

>> No.19235654

>>19235378
>thumb and forefinger
You're supposed to use a paring knife.

>> No.19235692

>>19235478
Those are great knives. I always recommend people get a 7'' kiritsuke over a 7'' santoku. They're so much more versatile.

>> No.19235713

>>19235654
>switching back and forth between knives during a simple task like cutting onions
No wonder chef is pissed about labor.

>> No.19235717

>>19235654
But why? I just pinch the corner and peel it up.

>> No.19235732

>>19235713
>switching knives
You're supposed to use a paring knife. That's what they're for.

>> No.19235747

>>19235732
Just cut the fucking thing in half and it takes half a second to peel.

>> No.19235761

>>19235732
Wrong. Paring is holding the knife static in your fingers with the blade facing you and then feeding food into the blade. That's what they're for. Just because you can slip a small knife in between the layers of an onion to separate them doesn't mean that you should. It's a waste of time. Onions peel just fine with your fingers. There's almost no recipes that call for a whole full sized onion to be peeled and if it did you would just blanch it to remove the skin anyways.

>> No.19235986

>>19235732
90% of the time I use a paring knife it's for trimming meats.
I don't think I've ever used one on an onion willingly.

>> No.19236001

Why a chef's knife over a santoku or nikiri? What does the point offer?

>> No.19236023

>>19236001
>>19236001
A santoku still has a point that can be used similarly to how you would use a chef's knife point. The advantage of the point is it makes piercing meat/fish for boning, filleting, skinning and cleaning up silverskin easier. The advantage the chef's knife gives is the large curve let's you do a rocking motion easier, which is helpful for chopping herbs.

>> No.19237652

>>19233797
Shunanon here. I really appreciate your advice. I’ve been super bummed and been hesitant about what to try next.

>> No.19237679
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19237679

>>19235654
>using a paring knife
>to PEEL an onion
JUST PULL IT OFF AAAAAAAA

>> No.19237731

>>19236001
You can use a chef's knife for cutting anything but XBox HUEG bones. You theoretically could cut through chicken bones with a santoku but you shouldn't and a nakiri isn't meant for cutting anything except vegetables.

>> No.19237776

>>19231856
I got a mercer renaissance 8 inch chef knife.
It's pretty great.
Got no bolster
Smoth spine.
Belly is good but has no hard stop that's good and bad depending on the task.
Sharpens very easily.
I have chipped it but was pretty easy to fix.
Same price as the Victoranox.

>> No.19237783

>>19236001
I have all of them get the chef knife and not a fancy super hard and thin Japanese one.

Nikiri is great but can't do meat and it grips food more so I think the buka is better.
Santoku is good but its short that's good and bad depending on the thing you cut.
Chef knife just does everything and the western ones can be used to debone anything and also do all the vegetable and fruit stuff the others so just slightly worse.

>> No.19238360
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>> No.19238393
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19238393

I got a wusthof was free because I stole it from my family

made them get me a $30 nakiri and i got an $8 meat cleaver off amazon

the motherfucker literally chipped hard the 2nd time i used it but i was smashing coconuts and it didn't seem to make much of a difference. still smashes bone lul. it's so fucking chipped now it's like serrated.

>> No.19238687

>>19238393
One time I visited my parents for Thanksgiving and did most of the cooking, their job was to do most of the clean up. Fair, fair.
I'd left my chinese chef's cleaver sitting out when I took a nap and while packing away the turkey my father decided to use it to chop and break down the bird, including chopping through the breastplate.
Absolutely mangled the poor knife going through those thick turkey bones.

>> No.19240335
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19240335

>>19231872
>All knives dull with use.
/diy/ are currently trying to claim you can keep a knife sharp with just a honing steel.

>> No.19240357

>>19240335
Oh sweet. Knife sharpening threads pull the most angry, opinionated, and awful things out of people. It's crazy. I wonder what it is about sharpening knives in particular that does this.

>> No.19240361

>>19240335
A steel won't put a new edge on a worn blade, but it will greatly extend the life of one

>> No.19240901

>>19231856
Zwilling/Henckels are usually a great intro knife brand. Only problem is differentiating the 2, because one is the "Budget" brand and the other is the "Nice" on despite being the same company. IMO the most important part is to get Forged vs. Stamped. I have a Stamped santoku I got on a whim vs a forged Chef Knife and the forged is so much fucking better when in your hands.

>> No.19242503

>>19231920
>plastic
No thanks.

>> No.19242505

>>19233535
>honing rod
>resharpened
you fucking retard

>> No.19243079

>>19240335
Maybe not exactly. But a combination of good geometry and soft steel and you can extend the life of a blade's sharpness for a very long time.

>> No.19243083

>>19242505
>effectively

>> No.19243678

Mercer midrange $30. Messermeister $120 on sale. The latter is a german battle axe.

Learn to hone, strop and sharpen. Atoma 400-->naniwa chosera 1000-->suehiro rika 5000 grit. Or sandpaper on a 2x4.

>> No.19243729

>>19231856
I use a $5 Kiwi knife.

>> No.19244255

>>19242503
for 30 dollars or less youre either getting plastic, bamboo, or frankenwood
plastic is your best best for longevity at that price point
I have a plastic handled knife from world war 2 that probably beheaded some japs and is still in perfectly fine shape

>> No.19244470

>>19232421
Have three shun premieres (chefs, nakiri, utility) theyre great and hold an edge just fine especially with honing rod use. Havent had any issue with chipping at all. Very well balanced and a joy to use.

>> No.19244544

>>19232421
You must abuse the shit out of them. I also have three shun, premier santoku, nakiri and boning/filet and they hold a fantastic edge and because I'm not irresponsible with them and don't try to cut through bone or coconuts with them and only use them on my wood cutting boards they've never chipped.

>> No.19244598

>>19231856
Any big knife that looks like it'll feels good in your hand and a sharpener/whetstone, I've been using a 30$ knife from Walmart and a 15$ whetstone from amazon the past few years.

>> No.19244605

There are only two knives you need: a chef's knife and a paring knife.
And maybe a steak knife for shit quality meat.
I use plastic knives (more or less butter knives) for 99% of what I eat

>> No.19244616

>>19244255
>plastic is your best best for longevity at that price point
Depends, I've had plastic handles start flaking after a while, leaving plastic shavings everywhere, including food. I find metal handles are the way to go when it comes to affordability+longevity.

>> No.19244622

>>19244616
>I find metal handles are the way to go when it comes to affordability+longevity.
You don't find the rusty shavings annoying every time you use iron or steel handles?

>> No.19244629

>>19244622
>rusty shavings
>rust
Huh? I don't have that problem.

>> No.19244666

>>19244622
are you retarded

>> No.19244773

I've been thinking about buying one of those fancy knives at ikea. Are they any good?

>> No.19244852

>>19244773
A $20 stainless steel Ikea chef's knife is the oldest knife I have. I've had it for 10 years and it's been completely fine. I've retired it for most things and just use it for heavy duty tasks now where I wouldn't want to damage my other knives, like cutting through a chicken or a coconut. I can still get it sharp enough to cut off hair on my arm and it's been through hell and back but it's still kicking.

>> No.19244982

The chipping pierces the tomato skin. Do not fall for the sharpening meme

>> No.19245341

>>19244544
Nope, I didn’t abuse mine. I’ve been looking around and apparently a few years ago they had a rough run. Maybe I got “lucky” and mine is one with shitty tempering. Regardless, I ain’t buying another one.

>> No.19246162

>>19231856
I have a Henckel's 9" Pro S that I bought in 2010. With quick regular honing it keeps a sharp enough edge for comfortable cooking (as opposed to making myknifeissosharp-tiktoks). Other than honing I sharpen it maybe once a year with stones.

My only complaint and advice is that the full bolster is a pain in the ass for actual sharpening and doesn't really add anything to the comfort or safety of use. Whenever I eventually replace it I won't get another knife with a bolster.

>> No.19247071

>>19244629
>>19244666
So the joke went over your head.
>are you retarded
Ironic

>> No.19248698

>>19247071
>I'm just pretending to be retarded.
shut up retard

>> No.19250416

>>19237652
Shuns are wonderful knives. They are extremely hard which is great for many things but you need to be aware that a hard and thin edge is a brittle edge, so twisting the knife while the edge is in contact with the cutting board will very likely chip it. Same with cutting things that are very hard like bones are definitely going to damage the knife. That's why I typically gravitate towards Miyabi. They're almost as hard but being a little more flexible gives them a lot longer life.

>> No.19250432

>>19235331
>Oh and, don't sharpen your knife yourself. Get a professional to do it for you.
lol

>> No.19250455

>>19250432
Any good resources to learn how to do this yourself?

>> No.19250552

>>19250455
>buy oil stone or whetstone
>buy angle guides if you're new
>soak stone in oil or water for 30 mins+ before using
>fluids help chip evacuation and edge cooling while sharpening
>run knife over stone and equal amount on both sides
>give a couple passes on a honing rod on each side to deburr
>clean with soap and water
Wa La. That's all you need to do to maintain your knives. Don't get caught up in knife sharpness autism videos on the internet. youre not cutting steel wire, you're not cutting paper, none of that bullshit. You're cutting food. When you notice your knife working harder to get through food, use it on the stone. Otherwise give it a quick hone before you put it away when you're done with it.That's all there is to knife maintainence.