/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Sake makes me vomit. It feels so bad the next day. Soju is better for the alcoholic.

>>19128384
I don’t care about you or your off-topic opinion

>>19128411
Shut up, I’ll fight you.

no
junmai daijinjo is the "best" category of sake, though it tends to have the least variety because the rice is all polished
regular junmai tends to be fruitier but can also be very earthy depending on how it was made

>>19128291
Best sake I've had is Gekkeikan Black and Gold

>>19128291
Best sake is Dassai.

>>19128291
I prefer this one.
>siboritate silver

The taste of this sake makes me nauseous.
I had sake at a couple of bars, but I don't know what brand they were. They were fine.

>>19128291
sake is shit. you can just buy generic vodka, water it down, and get a comparable experience.

>>19128291
No.

>>19128696
lmao

Haha
>good sake

Perfect Sake: Anton Paar's Alcolyzer at Asahi-Shuzo (Dassai) in Iwakuni City, Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t4Gio8G_i4

>>19128291
shape good for many lucky cram

>>19128291
hakutsuru is delicious, I'd easily drink a liter a day when I was working in japan. not high quality by any means, just cheap and tasty

Sake sommelier and owner of a small japanese fine food and drinks shop here.

>>19128637
Dassai 45 is a very good sake for beginners. Very interesting price to quality ratio too. The pear and melon aromas are clear. It is very easy to understand the interest of sake with Dassai. But some people are angry with its brewery, Asahi Shuzo, because it brews sake all year long with unspecialized employees and very high-tech methods while sake is supposed to be brewed in winter by a crew of seasonal workers with a very "hands-on" and sometimes mystic approach.

>>19128696
Spoken like a true philistine.

>>19129497
I have sold Hakutsuru. Very clear and crisp sake. Good for the price too but its interest may be limited to beginners.

Overall, I would recommend:
- The Zaku line from Shimizu Seizaburo Shoten brewery. Fruity and mineral and dry at the same time, very elegant, modern in the good sense of the term. Gen no Tomo or Megumi no Tomo are very good, somewhat cheap options.
- Tenzan Shichida Junmai from Tenzan shuzo. Very intense and complex sake from the very overlooked Saga prefecture. Fruits, nuts, humus, lots of things to unfold.
- Maybe a bit harder to find but the Niwa no Uguisu line from Yamaguchi Shuzojo is also an excellent pick. The junmai is cheap and very refreshing, white flowers and a bit of lactic acidity.

>>19128291
I like it a lot. Yes.

>>19128291
>>19129497
>>19130080
Hakutsuru is also my go-to for hot sake. I feel like using anything “nicer” would be a waste.

>>19128291
It has latin characters on the label so probably not.

>>19130080
How much of a novelty for super rich people is this sake? Can you explain how diminishing returns work with sake? Where is the sweet spot price wise?

Try nigori instead

>>19130655
They prefer to be called BIPOCi now.

>>19128291
I saved this image on /b/ in 2009 and I would very much like to die

>>19130287
>Where is the sweet spot price wise?
300yen for a 3L box is the sweet spot

>>19130287
Oddly enough, I am one of the relatively few people in North America to have tasted the Hakkiasan Presidential Sake, which can only be attained by personal gift of the Hakkiasan president and is not for sale. This person got the bottle because they were the first in thousands of miles to actively promote Hakkiasan and had done so for decades at that point. Literally just having that empty bottle makes the place officially legit, it's fucking crazy.

how drunk are the jannies

>>19130287
100% meme. Here is my advice about expensive bottles, it works with anything: if you have the money to buy a $4500 bottle, don't. Buy one hundred $45 bottles. (For sake, this would be a very sweet spot.)

So, about polishing ratios. It will be a bit lengthy, I am sorry, I will do my best. Rice that will be used to brew sake has to be milled because the rice bran and upper layers are full of proteins and other molecules that will give a very earthy taste to sake, which is often perceived as not desirable. The goal is to get close to the heart of the grain, called shinpaku, which is almost pure starch.

The milling takes out the germ of the grain so malting is not possible. The starch has to be converted into glucose by a very small mushroom called koji, which is also used to make miso and soy sauce. (This is the Japanese noble rot, if you will.) This glucose is then converted into alcohol by yeast. This is how you make sake.

The idea at the base of the meme is this: if the grain is highly milled, the koji can work on almost pure starch and make high-quality sugar that will, in turn, give high-quality esters and thus pure aromas. So the higher polishing ratio, the better the sake. Dassai is responsible for spreading this idea with their Dassai 23 vintage.

Problem is: this is false. And still, as the Absolute 0 demonstrates, sake brewers are still invested in what some call the polishing wars. But at this point, this dick contest is 100% marketing. Above 25% remaining volume of the grain, the differences in polishing rates will be indistinguishable.

All of this stems from the fact that polishing rice for sake making is a long and costly process. You have to chose specific strains, with good chemical characteristics and high mechanical resistance, because a broken grain with an exposed core is worthless for sake brewing. Of course, these strains are often expensive.

>>19130287
>>19132672

To get to a high polishing ratio, even with very tough strains like the popular Yamadanishiki, machine need to grind slowly. But time is money, and very much so in the struggling sake industry.

High polishing ratios also often mean a low-temperature (and thus lengthy) brewing process. More time, more money.

To conclude, many people believe very high polishing ratios are a way for breweries to say: "We have the means to produce something like this. We have the time, the money, the knowledge." This is dick waving.

Still there are very good ginjos and daiginjos – sakes with rice polished to 60% or 50% or less of its original volume, respectively. But these tend to be fruity and exuberant, with a high sugar content. They are good to get into sake. But the best sake, IMHO, is dry and refreshing, with delicate aromas. 60% to 70% polishing ratio is more than enough for this.

Pic related: this sake feels like a walk in the mountain in early spring, not like getting drowned in pear jam.

>>19130287
>>19132701

Sorry, it is me again, I get carried away when sake is the subject. A very important point: if you are looking for a really good sake, look at the marketing points used by the seller or brewery. If rice polishing ratio and fruity aromas get mentioned first, you are more than likely in for yet another ginjo/daiginjo.

If the subject of water comes first, you should pay attention. Water is the most important ingredient in sake because its contents (sodium, potassium, iron...) have a considerable impact of the work of koji and yeast. This is why the best sake regions are renowned for their water.

Look for Kyoto, Hyogo, Niigata and Yamagata sake and respect their recommended service temperature. This shit will change your life.

>>19130080
Lmao the autistic loser returns. Even replying to yourself. Pathetic. All the money in the world and yet you still spend your evenings alone.

>>19132744
Money is tight but I love what I do (thus the autism) and I cuddle my girlfriend in our bed every night. You can suck my dick, pussy boy.

Kang ob jaoom here signing in. Listen to this little faggot talking about sake like he knows anything lmakkkkkkk he's nothing. Loser that sits imon his own on his farm counting hisnstsncks Allen lmao n. Who me? I'm loving the life nlogong the life he wishes he could have.

>>19132737
>>19132701
>>19132672
Thank you, sake sage. Instead of vodka, I will now get sake and vodka for my birthday this year.

>>19132767
If money is tight then you aren't who I thought you were. I apologize. love her and keel her close.

>>19132774
Apologies for the "strong worded" response. Let's all enjoy sake together.

>>19132737
>>19132701
>>19132672
Great posts. Tyvm. My next batch of sakes to try will all be purchased using your water quality advice. Makes perfect sense. I know how important it is when making coffee, beer, or even just normally cooked rice.

Apologies about attracting the ankle biter. He is absolutely and autistically obsessed with me. His gripe? I cooked rice in a donabe on the Japan cooking thread and was excited about it because I was trying a new cultivar.

I just ignore the yapping little puppy dog and carry on with my adult conversations.

>>19132672
>Rice that will be used to brew sake has to be milled because the rice bran and upper layers are full of proteins and other molecules that will give a very earthy taste to sake, which is often perceived as not desirable.
are there any sake that intentionally include these layers to get that earthy taste?

>>19130251
sasuga, anon-senpai...

>>19133495
Absolutely. It can be very good but has to be controlled by a talented brewer.

The Katori 90 from Terada Honke is a very good example of this. As the name implies, it is brewed with rice polished to only 90% of its original volume and wild yeast that just falls down into the vats. It is earthy and slightly mushroomy, with cedar and bitter orange notes, while remaining very lean. It is a very nice sake, much superior to the Katori 80 which is a bit heavy to my taste. It is also quite cheap for the quality.

Much more expensive and harder to get is the Alpha Type 8 by Kaze No Mori. This is sake made with totally unpolished rice – brown rice. 100% polishing rate, if you will (the polishing ratio is always expressed as remaining volume.) This is a fascinating sake. It begins with a very light sparkling sensation and opens on very delicate aromas of wet earth and citrus, then simply disappears from the tongue. If you have an opportunity to try it, try it.

>>19132701
Thanks for the info fren. I do like sake but rarely buy it because I don't know what's good.
I need a sake to drink warm on cold winter days.
I need a sake to drink cool on nice summer days.
My local LQ has a surprising amount of variety.

Are there any U.S. made sakes worth trying?

>>19133786
very cool, thanks for the information

>>19133958
This is not your question, but the occasion is good to say it: the temperature of service has nothing to do with the quality of a given sake. It is about the style of the sake. To cut it short, fruity sake should be served cold and earthy sake may be served hot.

Also: sake that has been heated must be consumed hot. If it gets cold, the taste will be somewhat broken, all over the place. So never heat more than you wish to drink. You can heat the sake slowly in a pot or just put it in the microwave (this method pisses of elitists, but it works, and a lot of Japanese restaurants use it.) Most of the time, 130°F is good.

A hot sake for sad and cold winter days: Yanwari from the Tamagawa line by Kinoshita brewery. It really feels like a hug from a higher power, soothing and mellow, but not sweet. Perfect when you feel tired after a long shift. It makes life bearable, really. Get some cheese or cured meat with it.

A cool sake for summer days: hard to answer. Summer sake exist, they are called natsuzake. But they always felt too sweet for me. So this is very personal but I would recommend another Japanese drink for hot days: shochu distilled from sweet potato or brown sugar (avoid barley shochu) mixed with sparkling water on ice. This kind of mix is called highball in Japan. It is fresh, very dry and perfect for hot and humid summers. Any cheap shochu will do, but a high-quality shochu will really make for a great highball.

>>19133958
I am from Europe so I do not know about US sake. But I can tell you one thing: sake from Europe sucks really fucking hard.

I tried sake from France and Austria. Some used imported Japanese rice, others local rice. Some were made by Japanese people, others by locals. But they were all bad, and sometimes very, very bad: sugary, acidic, blunt, and above all shallow in taste, with terrible texture and color.

I think the hard waters of Europe are to blame, but I also feel the bread-eating, fruit-alcohol drinking Europeans do not understand the beauty and complexity of rice and thus do not respect it.

Still, I cannot rule out the US sake because I have never tasted it. I also have never been there but California seems to be deeply connected to Japan, for a lot of reasons. I feel like sake from California would probably be better than European sake.

>>19134005
My pleasure!

>>19135104
>(avoid barley shochu)
You don't like barley shochu?
It has no strong characteristics, but the Japanese like its simple taste.

>>19135162
I went to a sake distillery in oregon run by japanese people. It was quite good.

Simple as.

I have some probably shit sake and umeshu coming tomorrow from amazon

>>19135659
Honestly it's super cheap and there isn't much of an aftertaste. if you're mixing it or just trying to get blitzed it's not bad. I've definitely had worse

I really like nigori sake but it can go bad on the shelves because no one buys it. Now I'm scared to buy it.

>>19135750
>Now I'm scared to buy it.
Because I got a bad bottle and the bottles always have dust on them so it's a risk it seems.

>>19135659
They sell this by the gallon at the grocer I go to. Always get one for cooking.
Always have a taste while cooking and 2 days later the bottle is empty and I have injuries of unknown mechanisms.

>>19135750
In Japan, fine sake or nigori is usually kept in a refrigerator and sold

>>19135955
I'll have to check the Asian market parts of town. I have never seen sake refrigerated at a general liquor store.

>>19135750
This nigga >>19135955 is 100% correct. Good sake and nigori should be kept upright in a fridge.

>>19135337
No, I like barley shochu! But I feel it does not make for the best mix with sparkling water.

Any good books to read on Sake?

>>19137232
Nihonshu: Japanese Sake by Gautier Roussille. Detailed to the point of autism. The Sake Industry News is a very good newsletter about sake: https://sakeindustrynews.substack.com/

>>19137271
>>19137271
Appreciate it, m8. Looking at the ToC, this is exactly what im looking for.

I only drink the highest quality sake when I'm looking to get trashed and throw up in an alley

>>19138714
How is?

>>19128384
Based Korean alcoholic. Fuck the nips.

>>19128291
as a filthy fucking weeaboo I haven't the faintest fucking clue. I'm going to make a disgusting soyface while drinking it because it's japanese and must be the best thing in the world. This is even if it objectively tastes like cat pee smells. I will do all of this while drunkenly purchasing anime figurines. I really like some of this sho chiku bai nigori I bought at a corner shop. The only downside(aside from it leading to large purchases of anime figurines), which is generally applicable to any nigori, is that it looks like cum.

I'm from eastern europe and for the longest time I could find gekkeikan sake in plenty of shops, but at some point it disappeared. Really annoying, as it was my favourite with a great price too.

>>19128291
No, but it's decent for the price.

>muh junmai
>muh nigori
>muh ginjo

A proper prepared Honjozo served warm is better than sex

>>19141978
I still prefer them chilled. I really can't tell the difference between the Honjozos and Junmais sold here, other than the Junmais can feel a little heavier.

>>19135659
Yep, this is what I cook with.

>>19135659
Six bucks a bottle at the store. Can't go wrong with this for cookin or sipin.

I can't drink anything but nigoris
The more filtered varieties just don't do it for me