/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Spinach and Rice Soup

I hate Marco Pierre White so fucking much

how do I make marinara sauce less acidic? When I make it myself with crushed tomatos, onion, and spices on a pan it's fine. But when I make a Ragu in a crock pot with Rao's sauce, it ends up slightly bitter. Sometimes I don't have the time to make it properly on a burner so how do I solve this issue?

>>18775999
High quality tomatoes can be less acidic. Premade sauces will have shit tomatoes, they are going for the lowest cost. You can try adding baking soda or something alkaline to lower the acidity.
This is a symptom of not making things the right way from scratch.

>>18775944
Sauce making is my culinary achilles' heel, how do I improve? Other than practice more, I already know that but I've been cooking for 17+ years and have always struggled with sauces

>>18776019
>You can try adding baking soda or something alkaline to lower the acidity
This is the answer, baking soda + a small pinch of sugar will fix an acidic sauce 9/10 times

>>18776050
>>18776019
Thanks, I do normally make it myself but I'll try that. Tried sugar once and it didn't do much, but I'll try something to neutralize the acid.

>>18776028
I'm not sure what aspect is tripping you up but I'd say work on the stock. Starting with a high quality stock is 90% of the work. Make sure you use meat not just bones, this part is important.
Then you can reduce the stock and freeze it. That way when you put some in the pan to make your sauce it's already at the right consistency and everything is easy.

>>18775981
Is that just a statement? Or do you have a recipe?

>>18776158
>Make sure you use meat not just bones
Seriously fuck those plebs, who shill those bone water swills instead of proper fonds which will have some actual flavour. Also don't roast the shit out of everything. Roasting the meat, bones and vegetables slightly will be enough as the brown colour will come by alone and won't result in off flavours. Dark amber coloured fond should be the goal not something that looks like you added a ton of caramel colouring to it.
Also don't go to heavy on the vegetables. Rather make a vegetable fond on it's own.

>>18776791
Some nice tips. I don't like when people put too many carrots in and it gets too sweet.

>>18775944
>Knorr-free zone

A what now?

>>18777066

>>18777066
No packaged sauces or stock.

tsla $80 puts may expiry

>>18778320
Buy UL puts instead, they are going down for sure once people stop buying Knorr.

Jam anon, post your site

Ill take chef boyardi public as a seperate entity tyvm

been freezing leftover onions, carrots and celery for soup flavoring. it saves me a fair amount of money that i can gamble with on options in the soup market

>>18778408
Don't they get mushy? You might want the flavour of them but if they dissolve and cloud the soup that would be bad.

>>18778463
they get mushy but i strain all of them off at the end. they don't disintegrate to the point where it makes the soup very cloudy. totally worth it to not have to buy a $3 pack of celery, only to use 2-3 stalks, every time i want soup.

Why has roux fallen out of favor? Used to be every sauce had roux now it's all reductions.

Tried my hand at making an alfredo-like from scratch.
>diced and fried 250g bacon
>added 250g cream cheese
>added 500ml chicken stock
>added 100ml cream
>brought to boil
>mixed in onion powder, garlic powder and parmesan cheese to taste
>added 400g cooked penne
>let settle and plate
First time doing any sauce not out of a jar, feel free to crucify me.

>>18778872
Why use cream cheese and chicken stock? Just fry the bacon, add and reduce cream and them whisk freshly grated Parmesan into it until smooth.

>>18778872
I agree stick to just bacon & cream, it's simpler and things infuse beautifully into it. You can add whatever you want, fresh garlic, dried mushrooms, herbs, anything and they would infuse into the cream. Then reduce until it's the perfect consistency and there you go.

>>18778872
Also try blanching the bacon so the smokiness doesn't overpower things or use something not smoked.

>>18778911
>Why use cream cheese and chicken stock?
I wanted a taste profile akin to chicken alfredo without actually having chicken, and I used cream cheese to impart a cheesy flavor while cheaping out on the amount of parmesan (a brick of cream cheese here is $2 while fresh parm is ~$15).
>>18778945
>>18778991
Will try these next time. I liked the taste quite a bit but it's not something I could serve guests.

>>18779075
I'm proud of you for not using a jar for your sauce and learning to cook. However, cream cheese isn't going to give you a "taste profile" that's similar to chicken. If you're starting out, stick to the classic ways of making a dish and not focus on meme recipes or where ever you got the idea of "taste profiles". I understand what you mean by the term, it's just not something a beginner should use and honestly is meaningless. Also get a microplane for hard cheeses, you shouldn't need all that much cheese.

>>18778672
Blame nouvelle cuisine. Traditional haute cuisine sauces were based 90% on roux but they thought those old methods weren't contemporary anymore.
In the good old times you also wouldn't have just gotten a teaspoon of sauce. Traditional recipes were also much heavier on the meat in their fonds so you didn't had to reduce the shit out of sauces to get some flavour but just to thicken them.

>>18775944
I've heard you can make a demi-glace without the veal by either using extra chicken wings or pig feet. Is this actually possible, I tried to the chicken wings and it still wasn't the right consistency.

>>18779123
>cream cheese isn't going to give you a "taste profile" that's similar to chicken
I was referring to the use of chicken stock.

>>18779158
My bad, I realized what you meant after I my post. Still, I'd recommend you stick with classic recipes for dishes/sauces when starting out and then tailor them and experiment once you get a feeling for why they work and how. Feel free to make slop and post it though, I appreciate the original content even if I think the idea is bad.

>>18779154
You should use veal as it has the most versatile flavour and can be used for everything. Of course you can use veal or pig feet for thickening. Escoffier or Bocuse also use pork rind for their fonds. In the end it shouldn't even matter as the roux should've thickened it enough.

>>18779154
How much did you reduce it? If you're talking about a modern reduced "demi-glace" the reduction is about 8L to 0.5L, you have to use a succession of smaller pots so it doesn't burn.
I'm not sure I've seen someone make the traditional from espagnole with pure chicken stock.

>>18775999
Use san marzano tomatoes, they're typically less acidic than others

>>18779135
Are the old roux based methods better? If you don't skimp out on the recipes? There must be some reason people don't go back to the old way.

>>18779765
Today the biggest concern is cost and speed in kitchens. The reason they don't go back to the old way is that the owner of the restaurant doesn't care if Juan makes something correctly but only cares what the profit margin is on labor and ingredients

>>18775944
i buy chicken thighs, bone in & skin on, and save the bones and skins in the freezer until i make stock. also save the spare ends of celery, carrots, and mushrooms to add to the stock pot. feel like i'm wasting the schmaltz but i don't see myself making latkes all the time. maybe i should use schmaltz for gumbo? thoughts?

>>18779826
The chicken fat can be used for potatoes, cooking onions, cooking the chicken livers anything really. If you like ramen the Ivan Ramen book uses it in the ramen. He has a chicken katsu recipe with the fat as well.
I would suggest using not just bones and scraps for your stock but put in some pieces with meat on them as well. You will get more flavour.

>>18779981
>Ivan Ramen
already downloaded

Are there any secrets to improving your stocks? I’ve made chicken and beef stocks a bunch of times now and it seems like the only real difference is whether you roast things or not so I just buy bones and scraps on sale and use whatever leftover meats and veggies I can find in my fridge

>>18780032
You can make a double stock to get better flavour. Take some meat and fry it in fat. Degrease it. Then pour a small amount of stock and cook it down to a glaze. Repeat this a few times then add the rest of the stock and cook it for another hour or so (or until the meat has released all its flavour). Then strain it. You'll have more essence of the animal than just a bone stock this way.

>>18780032
add an unpeeled onion for that golden colour

What part is the veal 'knuckle' some recipes ask for?

>>18780487
Where are you finding these recipes?

>>18779765
As the other guy said it's time. In le guide culinire escoffier already said that starch or arrowroot will replace the roux in the future as there's basically no difference anways.
>>18780487
Veal shank.
>>18780032
Obviously don't use leftovers and trash but proper ingredients. get some veal shanks, an onion, a carrot, parsley, thyme and bay leaves and just cook it for 12 h.

>>18780528
So you shouldn't make the demi-glace with roux anymore? The reduction is actually superior? Or should you use a different thickener?

>>18780657
Demi glace needs a roux. It takes ages anyways to make the fond and sauce espagnole. It also rather serves the purpose of demi glace as a base sauce if you thicken it properly.
A reduced fond is also never a demi glace but simply a glace.

>>18780672
My question is, is it worth making still? Or should I do things the 'new' way with mostly reductions?

>>18780698
All the modern recipes i've seen for "demi glace" were complete trash as they were just bones and a ton of vegetables. The fact alone that chicken demi glace recipes exist speaks for itself.
Just make a traditional demi glace and compared it to the modern take. Again they serve different purposes anyways.

>>18778672
may not be the real reason but what we were told at my school was it's part of the effort to reduce fats in the food we're serving as part of our duty of care
my stance of "lul who fucking cares how healthy our customers are" did not make me popular with the boomers who staffed it

>>18775999
Cook without a lid

Been trying to cook tomato sauce pasta for myself for few months (as past-time as
but i cant improve or make my food taste better, thus some questions if you can help me, thank you

1. I use tomato puree and tomato paste for my sauce. I usually add red onions (i only have red instead of white); garlic; carrot; sweet bell pepper (if it's in season), red apples (for the sweetness) and tomatoes. I use mince pork.
The steps usually are:
- excess oil
-brown the roughly dice garlic and then finely diced red onion
-add in and cook minced pork until turn grey-in-color
-add in tomato paste and the finely diced vege and cook until soften (i press the vege and the oil it seeps out is orange-in-color)
-add in tomato puree and diced tomatoes and cook for a while to make the sauce concentrate for quite a bit

1. Is these enough to make an acceptable sauce comparable to the store-bought pasta?

2. How to know I over-onion my sauce?

3. I found that some ingredient lose their flavour in the sauce like the carrot and the garlic. How to ensure the aroma and taste of ingredient kept in the sauce?

4. Can i keep the sauce in fridge (~10 degree) for like a week? I kept in freezer but i found it troublesome since you need to de-froze it

>>18775999
See >>18781072
You need to go lid off for a long while for the acidity to escape. Using a different variety of tomatoes only does so much.

>>18781147
Saute beef and pork mince in clarified butter also consider bacon, throw in finely diced onions (desu you can't overdose on onions as they make everything better and will dissolve and thicken sauces as in goulash) and sweat them, maybe also carrots (both will add sweetness to the sauce and cut the acidity. Same reason many recipes also call for sugar), add tomato paste and garlic and toast them, deglace with a little bit water as you don't want acidity from wine as it seems.
Obviously also use some herbs like oregano, thyme, bay leaves, basil or rosemary. You could also experiment with some spices like nutmeg/mace, coriander, cardamom, cumin, cloves, allspice or fennel in small amounts. A sauce will also always profit from a fond (in this case veal or beef).
I don't know how long you could store it in a fridge but even for me as someone, who eats stuff for days, a week sounds a little bit too long. Rather freeze it in portions. It should store well frozen for ages anyway.

>>18781147
WHY is your sauce sweetened this much? Are your tomatoes needing an upgrade and are so bitter they need sugary applies and carrots both? Switch brands.
WHY are you using only pork mince and not a combination of seasoned-already italian sausage, or even pancetta or guancale, and why avoid beef too? Want mouthfeel richness, need some gelatin in there like simmering meaty bones in the sauce, too, or using cured pork fat.

>>18775999
Cheap tomatoes taste more acidic because they have more preservatives added. Mutti is solid, but San Marzano is top tier

>>18781147
Keep it simple. Use good quality tomatoes.

>>18781667
I saw a test and the DOP San Marzano tomatoes were .3 on the pH scale higher than cheap generic ones. Other brands in between that. Since it's a log scale that's way less acidic.

>>18781667
San Mariano skins are poopoopeepee though. Yuck.

>>18783790
Then take the skins off.

>make sure to skim, or your stock will be cloudy!
>noooo you have to or you'll get "off flavors"

how many fell for this meme? I did, until I pressure cooked my stock and it only improved, no "off flavors" to be found, while I never skimmed anything. Come to think of it, why does stock being "clear" even fucking matter? No one even knows why, they just repeat the clarity meme like robots. Everything tasty is opaque desu.

>>18784095
Pressure cooking works great, that's the way they say to do it in Modernist Cuisine. Heston Blumenthal also does it that way. Certainly it should be fine for a home cook.
I'm not sure why clarity matters either unless you're going to make consommé.

Has anyone made fish stock? I catch fish so it's fresh but it still tastes fishy if reduced. Do I just not like it or am I doing something wrong? Should I just not use it?

>>18784541
I haven't made one as i can't get freshly catched fish but most recipes i read used pretty mild fishes and only cooked the fumet for just 20 minutes while also using wine unlike regular fonds.

>>18784809
Peterson's sauce book says it can be fishy and maybe use mussel or clam cooking liquid, but bivalve collecting is closed where I am due to some toxin. Maybe I'll just use a reduced court-bouillon instead in the sauce like it suggests as an alternative.