/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>18385476
The whole thing in western Europe with using a bread "trencher" instead of a plate/bowl seems kinda weird to me.

If I was going to be a medieval aristocrat, I'd rather be in the Byzantine empire where they still used silver plates.

>>18385511
The trencher is for THE POOR. It's bad etiquette to eat the trencher. Plus all the grease that soaks into it gives it some much needed taste that some starving orphan would be very appreciative of.

Side note, Byzantines did have good food, though.

>>18385522
I know that you didn't eat the trencher, it just seems weird that you'd be served food on this flatbread that's slowly soaking up the juices of all the food and falling apart.

>>18385476
>"be some duke or baron"
>white version of "we wuz kangz"
No you weren't, 1% wuz kangz and the rest were filthy illiterate serfs ("you vill own nothing") eating goyslop and hosewater, maybe meat once/year if you had a poacher hookup. You might have gotten a slight culinary upgrade if you were impressed in the military, at least until getting impaled during some nobleman's "everyone stand in a line and take turns shooting arrows" strategy.

>>18385532
Trenchers are pretty thick. It's more stable than you realize. I think it's better than having to use plates for every meal and then needing to wash them afterwards, though. Saves time, water, and feeds the hungry. No downsides.

>>18385538
Two things:

>this is a culinary cultural appreciation thread, I'm not larping as the duke of normandy you aspie

>please use your suspension of disbelief, if you were a noble in the 1400's could you eat like they did?

>>18385476
>>be some duke or baron
>I could live with this.
Great. Now try being a peasant instead.
And still, even kings and emperors didn't get tomatoes, potatoes, corn, most modern veggies, etc., etc.

>>18385538
You autistics never fail to make hilarious posts. Calm down nigger lmao

>>18385558
>could you eat like they did?
Could I eat like other humans have eaten? Yes. Thanks for this profound gedankenexperiment.

>>18385569
My grandad was literally a Yugoslav peasant war orphan. Didn’t stop him from having his own vegetable garden, bees, and booze still. His attic was for drying meat and he kept a couple of snakes up there to keep the mice under control. Ok, he won’t be able to hunt boars and deers like he used to if he was a serf, but nothing stopped you from snaring a rabbit, also like he used to. You think the local lord wants rabbits eating the crops?

There’s a reason the brassica was turned into thirty vegetables.

>>18385511
Many Europeans of the era, noble or peasant had plates, gold/silver for the wealthy wood for the poor, trenchers were still used but not always.

i can’t have elaborate noble feasts because i’m fat

I;m thinking about thos Eggs and Ambergris

>>18385638
Same

>>18385632
But nobles were fat, though.

>>18385641
but i’m just the equivalent of a serf

Archaeologists recently uncovered the testimony of a medieval peasant, recorded by a barrister before he was burned alive for stealing an apple. What he remembers as peasant food growing up as a young kid in medieval Europe:

>turnip
>bread
>low-alcohol beer made from fermented bread and rainwater
>special big turnip on special occasion
>one time, poached rats (hunter's entire family was executed, RIP)

Moderners have no idea how bad it really was. No one in medieval times knew what the fuck forks were or Pepsi. Medieval peasant food was disgusting. Literally the bare minimum needed to keep white slaves alive. Makes sense because peasants were the caste of humans closest to animals. They made disgusting noises when they ate, slurped everything, farmers and millers got drawn & quartered for making eye contact with the local "noble" warlord while their children were raped and murdered for sport. Like what kind of sadist decided to mythologize authority as the most practical way to subjugate nations. Modern Walsharters on mobility scooters have a better diet than the average medieval peasant.

>>18385664
This is a certified, bummer.

If you live in or near Daytona Beach, FL, stay the hell away from the Taco Bell on Beville rd
It's so bad
also Julian Fletcher is a faggot lole

>>18385628
>My grandad was literally
Unless you're a couple hundred years old, he wasn't a medieval peasant.

>>18385476
I appreciate serving wenches

>>18385698
she's trying so hard but just doesn't have the goods

>>18385704
>doesn't have the goods
If you mean "no penor", you're probably right, faggot.

>>18385704
>implying you wouldn't fuck her

>>18385538
>>18385569
>>18385664
Get educated you dumb faggots. Medieval peasants literally eat better then modern day people consuming mass produced goyslop do and had zero (none) cavities and teeth problems from their diets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVcey0Ng-w

>>18385785
>goyslop
*OPINION DISCARDED*
You're the cancer that's killing /ck/.

>>18385807
You're the cancer that killed /ck/ chungus my man.

>>18385538
To be fair, pretty much everyone of European heritage can call Charlemagne their great-great . . . grandpa. Furthermore, if you traced any random European's ancestry back, say to 1200 AD, you will find that the large majority of their ancestors living at that time will be nobility / landed gentry types, not peasants. As you mentioned, peasants back then had pretty shitty lives, and thus unsurprisingly had fewer children survive to adulthood than the wealthier classes; poorer peasants would have been below replacement level. Meanwhile there was a steady stream of members of the wealthy classes that ended up getting pushed downwards on the class system; after all, there was only so much land to inherit, and not every third son is going to be happy becoming a priest or what have you, and would rather marry down.

This whole trend is true for pretty much every other settled agricultural civilization as well, with some caveats. East Asians followed a similar pattern as Europeans, while in India the more rigid caste system stifled downward mobility somewhat, and the Arabic world was replacing its lower classes with imported slaves alongside the effect from downward mobility.

>>18385785
Big true. Serfs lived better than modern yuropoors aside from that pesky slavery thing heh.

>>18385820
pay your rent

>>18385819
Wow.
You typed all that shit, even though it had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
Let's talk about black holes next, huh?

Food sucked in medieval times, more so for peasants than royalty, and making up your own "quantum leap" rules won't change that.
Except, of course, the part where you'd have to sleep with your own ancestors to get any pussy.

>>18385476

>>18385822
pay my mortgage

>>18385785
It says in the description that it's the food a knight would eat at an inn, the average peasant had such poor nutrition their bones would bend from labor.

>>18385538
>>18385851
You are a detestable and incredibly stupid person, I would enjoy beating you to death.

>>18385538
Thank god I was raised by grandparents, you know, actual people who actually lived and worked in fields, maybe not as serfs but lived the lifestyle.
Thr ammount of word vomit the "history experts" shit out is unbelievable. Especially with cooking where somehow everybody drank beer and wine and other alcohol because water was not safe.
But you ask him how fo make fake coffee from chicory and roasted barley and they go: What is thaat ?

>>18385476
There's been a lot of trolling itt, but you're right OP. I've been researching this topic for decades at local Renaissance Faires and all evidence indicates that the average POMT (Person of Medieval Times) subsisted primarily on turkey legs and mead served by fat middle-aged women with two "redeeming features" if you know what I mean. It might sound repetitive, but trust me, after a long day of watching jousting tournaments and shopping for dragon bongs, there's nothing that hits the spot quite like a turkey leg and a flagon of mead "with a side of milkers" if you know what I mean. In recent years, my research has become more difficult as the RennFest scene has become corrupted by tumblrinas with pink hair and problem glasses doing tv/movie/vidya/anime cosplay, but at least I can still drown my sorrows in mead and tryptophan while watching my favorite wench Nancy almost fall out of her dress while bussing picnic tables. During most of the year, Nancy is an administrative assistant in the HR department at an insurance company, but during these few fleeting weeks of autumn, we are all transported back to a better, simpler time when women's huge saggy bouncing titties were barely concealed in the taverns where hard-working peasants like us feasted upon turkey legs and mead whilst the jesters danced and bards sang tales of quests and dragons. Sometimes I shed sentimental tears in the blue porta-potties.

>>18386409
>I would enjoy beating you to death.
Probably not.
I'd bitch and whine the whole time.

>>18386471
>maybe not as serfs but lived the lifestyle.
Not in the last few centuries.

>tfw nobody knows the story of King Henry

>>18385542
>growing wheat, harvesting, seperating, grinding, heating oven, rolling dough, baking, monitoring, serving, tossing to the pig
vs
>dunk, scrub, rinse, dry
yep.

>>18386541
Welcome toveastern europe, my grandpa milked cow in morning and didnt have any electricity or indoor plumbing. Had to get water from well with bucket on rope.
Still keeps goodam clock which needs to be turned.
You dont even know how shitty infrastructure was in 1940 here, especially not in the city.

>>18386577
Still not medieval.

>>18386652
>>18386541
>>18385687

why can't we just talk about cool food :(

>>18385476
Swans taste awful though

>>18386705
Should probably just stick to watching Tasting History

>>18386688

>>18386504
>not a pasta

>>18386716
I'm guessing it's somewhere between rabbit and turkey?

>>18385476

You can live out your fantasy right now. Go to your local grocery store and buy a rotisserie chicken and some cheap win. Eat with your hands. There you go.

>>18385476
>>eat pork, swans, lamb, and bread all with your hands
>>wine as beverage
>I could live with this.
Literally no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

>>18386905

Ok, the occasional lemon too. I mean, what else am I going to use to dress my fish.

>>18386912
OK then.

Your diabetus my King.

>>18385476
A beautiful sunny medieval day… the green plains and crystalline running river by a quant town where theres no chimneys… watching the knights joust on horses, getting some meat on a stick at the fair with a fair lad

>>18386504
Best post in this thread, thank you good sir.

>>18386716
I beg to differ

>be modern day peasant
>eat better than nobility a few hundred years ago
I have access to foods and spices they wouldn't believe.

>>18385476
>Get gout, scurvy and malnutrition on the regular because certain foods were declared too low-class for your
Peasants actually ate better than kings even if that food wasn't high quality at all

>>18387789

>>18385589
>it's a germoid with no sense of humor episode
Scheisse

>>18387859
Gout was a sign of status by the upper class. If you never got gout it meant you weren't rich enough to get it. You wouldn't understand, you type like a poor person.

>>18387859
Apparently in Japan samurai and aristocrats were always getting sick with beriberi because they ate white rice while the peasants ate unpolished brown rice. The cure was to go live in the countryside for a while.

Why are certain people so quick to defend medieval times? It's the strangest thing I've ever seen like pretending medieval peasants had some incredible diet and stuff like that. My first assumption had to be that it's like /pol/tards winging at the idea that Europe was ever a bad place to live at one point or relatively worse than other places, but idk.

>>18388378
It's a battle of autism and the desire to be historically accurate. It's no secret that if you were rich you had more money which meant you could afford more food and you had access to a wider arrange of food. However, our modern culture tends to shit on the peasantry to an overly exaggerated amount to the point of historical inaccuracy.

They ate a lot of fish. Nowadays fish is too expensive so we must resort to eating chicken and, soon, bugs. They had no idea how good they had it back then.

>medieval food
it's soup.
it's porridge and it's soup.
you're throwing grains and roots and veggies into a pot over a fire.
there are a lot of turnips and cabbages and other treats you pull out of the root cellar.
you put bones and animal carcasses in the pot when you have them and take them out before serving. it makes the water tasty.
if you're not totally destitute and impoverished, you can take a few coppers to the baker and buy a loaf of bread.
you dip the bread in the soup or you toast a slice over the fire and put it in the bottom of the bowl before pouring the soup over it.
you eat beans a lot.
beans go in the soup
beans go on the bread. sometimes both
you eat meat. fish is for poor people. you're not completely impoverished, but you're no wealthy Genovese merchant either. you eat a lot of fish
you eat meat when a chicken no longer produces eggs, a cow no longer produces milk, a sheep gets too old
you eat a lot of dairy. cheese is a significant source of protein in your diet
you eat meat when you go hunting.
you eat bread and cheese when you go hunting.
you have a lot of free time most of the year.
you are a serf. your lord doesn't work you to death. you are very busy in early spring and mid-autumn but the rest of the year you have a lot of free time to forage and hunt.
you are 30 years old. you die 2 years from now from tuberculosis. you have 6 living children. 3 of your daughters died in child birth at 14, 13, and 15 respectively. 2 other daughters died of tuberculosis. 1 son died of tuberculosis. 3 sons died before their first birthday.
life is short but it's very simple and very peaceful. there is a lot of fresh food everywhere. there is as much fresh food as there is death.

>>18390037
>suckling pig
>Lemon somethings.. I forget.

https://www.tiktok.com/@lady_of_the_mercians/video/7138491167636786438?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1&q=medieval%20bread&t=1664043232597

>>18385476
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5I99Gjw_c1Q

>>18385511
Trenchers were metioned in the odissey if I recall correctly, the concept is very old but it does sound wierd since pottery was a thing

>>18391426
up until the early modern period European pottery was strictly porous earthenware (think terra sigillata). constantly using the same bowl would flavor the food with all the gunk and rancid oils from past meals over and over again like a clay teapot only shit. not that the poor cared, but the rich used trenchers instead because they were disposable and only absorbed flavors from the one meal they ate on them

The castle inhabitants never ate with their hands, lots of silver utensils from that time.

>>18391437
Iteresting, I honestly didn't associate trenchers with richer people but I guess it makes sense.

>>18385476
https://youtu.be/yXVzSkfPX4g

Also here is a bunch of people larping as tudor peasants, multiple episodes about food and such, not exactly medieval though I guess

>>18391529
>https://youtu.be/yXVzSkfPX4g
58:32
Jesus Fucking Christ, anon.

>>18385785
>Medieval... had zero (none) cavities ...

Yes, and they was kangz n sheet stop holding back progress.

>>18385664
>>one time, poached rats (hunter's entire family was executed, RIP)
yeah that sounds fake as fuck, as does the rest of your retarded post

>>18388378
because pop history went too far in the other direction and the average person literally thinks peasants subsisted entirely on gruel and only survived to age 30

>>18388378
It's LARPistry. What they never tell is the actual reason why a peasant population that ate a 90% grain based diet had no cavities: all the grit and the sand and the small stones accumulating in their bread caused them to wear their teeth down to nubs over the decades. They were eating abrasive foods from the cradle to the grave. No cavities when your teeth barely exist lmfao.

>>18385476
Even peasents ate good compared to today standards
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVcey0Ng-w
Whole youtube dedicated to the time era, he's been knighted to.

>>18385532
No, you're thinking of Naan bread you buy at the store. This shit was like Hardtack or similar shit that was essentially a fucking brick kind of substance that you legit had to soak in liquid to make it even edible. So after the end of eating stuff off of it, it had more of a chance of being able to be chewed and swallowed.

>>18393045
This. Trenchers were super difficult to eat alone. All the grease from the meats and such would soak in and make it more edible.

>>18385866
>Video title is literally "What did peasants eat in medieval times"
>"Peasants ate barley bread, salmon, butter, peas, and bacon"
You discord trannies are so retarded.

>>18389263
you left out the part where i have relations with your mother

you can't convince me that medieval food wasn't just every stereotype about bong food but slightly worse.
>no new world ingredients
>no seasoning
>entire diet is just boiled vegetables, gruel, brown bread, and offal
>maybe some meat seasoned only with vinegar on holidats

>>18386571
>including the work needed to make the bread
>but leaving out the work needed to make the plates

Disingenuous.

>mining, transporting, smelting, molding, cooling....

>>18385476
>a raw onion for dinner

>>18394270
Raw onions are good, don't disrespect the onion

>>18393360
This gave me a chuckle and it makes sense.

>>18385785
>educate yourself!
>links an edutainmen youtube video
It is very obvious that you are a stupid person and likely every correct fact you know has been learned on accident and not because you actually went out and learned something.

>>18385476
Interesting spicing.
Very complex and layered. Its like Indian food if everything tasted like thanksgiving.

>>18388375
If memory serves there was a Japanese court era that was constantly on the edge of starving to death because they only ate this super processed type of white rice that had basically no nutritional content. Like an entire court of anorexics.

>>18393360
>no seasoning

there are a lot of old world herbs used as seasonings. i find it ridiculous that people push the meme 'wy peepo dun seasun dey food' so hard. You just dont come into contact with things like rosemary, thyme, or sage if you consume goyslop all day.

>>18388378
>its pol

its actually the opposite. Pretending peasents lived full lives is how the ruling class tricks you into lowering your standard of living. A common arguement against the globalhomo narrative is 'they want to turn us into peasents', so globalhomo pushes the idea that 'ackutally pseansts lived bretty good lives :DDD'

Life is different now due to technology, and nobody wants to accept that. They want to social engineer you one way or another and find their social engineering desirable so you will play along. THe problem is the ruling class thinks they no longer need to play nice with us because they can control us through our modern technology and systems, but at the same time they are desperate to make sure normies dont realize that the ruling class itself is just as redundant due to the same technological advances.

You very well CAN live like and better than a 14th century peasent. Throw up a green house, automate your farm with drip irrigation pulling from a deep well, you can be the farmer-peasent that paradoxically lives better than a medival king. But that isnt what they want for you. They want you to be weak, sickly, and dependent upon their systems of control so they can jerk each other off all day. You must live in the pod, eat the bug, and be lonely. Its how they justify their own existence.

>>18389263
I'm not a big fan of cheese

>>18394685
>>18394589

>>18385522
>It's bad eiquette to eat the trencher.
>grease that soaks intio it gives it some much needed taste
which one is it, eat or no?

>>18394960
The taste is for the poor.

>>18386504
10/10 I want this feeling

How about some actual history instead of wild bullshit for a change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVcey0Ng-w

>>18395101
>if it's on the youtube it must be true.
Jeebus retard.
This nonsense has been posted at least two time previously, talks about knights, not peasants, and does generally little (if anything) to prove OP's point.

>>18395101
>praises (cheap-ass) brown bread, ale and salmon
>sorrel, salt + water = "sauce"
>all this plus mashed peas, such wow
>host doesn't know you cook over coals, not flames
>"all those people with nice country houses are effect(ively) medieval peasants (hahaha)"
>artisan bread == peasant bread
>actual peasant (not knight's) meal == bread, beer and bacon
I made it to 5:38, and just can't keep watching this nonsense.
Jesus, I've never seen a decent-looking guy so desperate to get into some fugly girl's panties.
Anyone who posts this video should be embarrassed,

>>18388048
I made an entire lab of chemicals in my body

>>18385558
Never greentext again

>>18385664
now this is how you cook pasta

>>18385476
Abundance of fish is something people really cannot appreciate today. It's just not the same. Back in Roman times they used to talk about the sheer volume of tuna that could be harvested with ease. Crustaceans and shell fish along the coasts, in rivers, and lakes were basically free. Eels and river fish were extremely plentiful, the Thames is famous for it of course but also lots of the rivers in Belgium and the Netherlands. Salmon was so plentiful that a university in germany actually wrote up a contract that forbade being served salmon more than twice a week. Of course, fish would have lots of parasites.
>>18385511
They had plates and bowls too.
>>18388378
A mix of genuine misinformation and also people want to feel like they know things so they like 'gotchas'. Then somehow the contrarianism goes the other way and you have retards saying the medieval ages really really really were that bad!
>>18387859
That wasn't a common occurrence until the 18th century. The landed nobility wasn't that rich and detached from society yet. Henry VIII is famous for his size and ailments but that was exceptional. He also only gained weight after he was seriously injured in a jousting tournament and couldn't mount a horse or run correctly. Prior to that he was quite athletic.

>>18389263
I really liked your comment anon!

>>18385476
you would never be a duke or baron though

>>18394100
>mining, transporting, smelting, molding, cooling...
once

>>18385476
>also
>gets gout at 35
>dies
Yeah sounds about right

>>18393360
ironically, brown bread is more flavorful and nutritious than the white bread royalty ate

You people realize that peasants =/= serfs right? Peasant is just a catch-all term for anyone who wasn’t nobility or clergy. Serfs were the lowest class of peasant who were so poor they had to sell themselves to the local landlord just to survive. Serfs rarely made up more than 10- 20% of the population in Western Europe

The rest of the peasants were usually independent farmers who rented land from the nobility or worked on the common land the nobility didn’t own. Many of them were also craftsmen who worked for local guilds which trained them and protected their rights.

It doesn’t make sense to talk about “what kind of food peasants ate” because there were so many different kinds of peasant across the socioeconomic spectrum. Many serfs probably ate mostly gruel, but many peasants were independent and well-off enough to afford fish, cheese, meat, herbs, etc

it was probably similar to how things are today where a large minority of the population lives in poverty and subsists on potato chips and coca cola, while most people can afford more nutritious food if they choose to buy it

>>18396539
You do understand they weren't eating wonderbread, right?
What's with people romanticizing poverty?

>>18396544
>independent farmers who rented land
>independent
>rented land
ummmm....

>>18396562
they didn’t have to swear an oath to a lord and they got to keep the profits from their land as long as they paid their rent, so yeah they were relatively free compared to serfs

>>18396581
>relatively free compared to serfs
Wow, I guess I'm a fucking billionaire because I don't even pay rent.
"free compared to serfs" is an incredibly low bar, especially in a world where the average king or queen didn't have a life half as luxurious as the modern upper middle class.

>>18385664
It just doesn't seem sustainable. An entire pound of turnips is only 100 calories. I'm assuming since they were slaves they were fairly active.

>>18396599
> "free compared to serfs" is an incredibly low bar, especially in a world where the average king or queen didn't have a life half as luxurious as the modern upper middle class.
I don’t see what modern middle class luxuries have to do with whether peasant farmers had freedom? luxury and freedom are different things. that argument doesn’t make any sense

regardless of how many luxuries medieval kings and queens had, I was talking about what kind of diet medieval peasants ate, and my argument was that peasant farmers were often independent and wealthy enough to afford meats and cheeses and other healthy stuff. I wasn’t saying that they were exactly as independent as the modern upper middle class

>>18396624
>that argument doesn’t make any sense
Try reading my post again.
Luxury provides context for life at the time, and renters have less freedom than property owners.
Not terribly difficult, really.

>>18396639
ok fuck it yeah you’re right, all peasants ate human shit and had no freedom or whatever. now go away

>>18395923
everything beyond perhaps the last 70 years was shit regardless of social class
before germ theory people didn't even wash their hands after doing disgusting things like butchery or cleaning the chamber pots
it's only good if you like shit and foul smells everywhere
modernity is the best thing to ever happen to conscious beings and anyone who says otherwise is a contrarian LARPist who should spend a month refusing to wash their hands after unclogging the shitter just to see how it was like

>>18396669
all *people ate human shit
without realizing it too lmfao
cross-contamination from all corners of society. nobody cleaned properly you dumb nigger, it was like living in modern india only worse because you didn't even get the knowledge of how to avoid it. the horses milling the grain spreading horse shit particulates all over the place. the bakers with unwashed hands kneading shit into your bread. the same bakers pulling the bread out and then manhandling it with the same shit-contaminated hands. trencher, manchet, or coarse brown bread it didn't matter. nobody knew shit about avoiding shit as long as they didn't see feces, and oftentimes even when they did they didn't care. getting shit on you and not bathing was routine. animals were everywhere. animal shit was everywhere. human shit was everywhere. cope around it all you like, you will never understand what it's like to live in a preindustrial society

>>18396684
also inb4 b-b-but they rinsed every so often!!!
that doesn't count you stupid nigger
soap and hot water and scrubbing. that's washing hands. splashing some lukewarm water with mint on your shit covered hands doesn't make them less shitty. nobody understood ACTUAL SANITATION practices beyond just "if it look clean it clean". that's why ancient times were fucking disgusting.
>m-muh immune system
enjoy getting it ravaged by e coli and salmonella you stupid nigger

>>18396684
I don’t disagree with any of this anon, holy shit. literally all I was trying to say that most peasants had decent variety in their diets and that not every peasant had it as bad as a serf. you’re unnecessarily turning this into a full blown lecture aboit why modernity in general is better than preindustrial society, which I never even said I disagree with. I don’t know why it makes you so irrationally assmad for me to say that one aspect of life in the Middle Ages maybe wasn’t as terribly bad as some people imagine. Doesn’t mean I think it didn’t mostly suck or that I’m not grateful for penicillin and sewers. holy shit. fuck off schizo

>>18396698
germs aren't real bro chill

>>18393360
>medieval chip butty and two litre of medieval frosty jacks from medieval tesco

>>18392596
He's also CEO of Riot Games.

>>18396698
why are you so salty anon

>>18396669
>all peasants ate human shit
Not even remotely what I posted.

>>18396562
You can't even own land in modern free democratic western nations. Property taxes makes all land ownership de facto rented land.

>>18398039
>Property taxes makes all land ownership de facto rented land.
And all taxes are theft, amirite?
There are some obvious differences between owning and renting, but even if I'm wrong about that, that doesn't mean you can be an:
>>18396544
>independent farmers who rented land from the nobility

>>18385664
>>18385669
>>18392225

>Archaeologists
>uncovering documents

This alone should have told you morons that you're being trolled.

>>18386571
>>18394100
>>18396477

You're failing to factor in that going through all those processes for something you're basically going to throw away, was seen as a good thing and sign of wealth that you have money to burn. There was even a servant whose whole job was to ceremonially cut the trenchers using specific knives.

>>18385664
so many newfags replying seriously

>>18396760
>>18397383
you two should be glad to be born during a modern medicine era

>>18398242
>so many newfags replying seriously
If you want pure shitposts, go to /bant/ or /b/.

I went to a renassance fair and got a turkey leg, it was good but the fair was filled with weird faggots in costumes.

People shitting on medieval european food are retards.

Europe has tons of food traditions and dishes that goes well into the medieval period. They had excellent wines of many types, they had excellent beers of many types, lots of delicious meats, cured and preserved meats, lots of seafood, dairy with wide selection of cheeses with a long tradition, and lots of aromatics like herbs, spices and garlic and many types of bread. Just because they didn't have potatoes and muh spicy meme-tier chili from the American continent doesn't mean they couldn't make good food.

There was two things to do to have fun medieval times, it was fucking and eating. So they definitely had good food, both peasants and nobles.

soyslop

>>18386471
>Especially with cooking where somehow everybody drank beer and wine and other alcohol because water was not safe.
If I remember corrently this was semi true, as people did drink a fairly large amount of beer, but it was predominantly small beer with ~2%ABV or less, instead of seriously alcoholic beer with >4%ABV upwards.

>>18398508
>They didn't have potatoes and muh spicy meme-tier chili from the American continent
Also: no peppers, no tomatoes, no corn.
Most modern veggies are highly bred to be as good as they are, so little of that either.
And no pasta for a little over half of the dark ages.
https://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+pasta+in+europe

Besides, most people down on medieval food are specifically addressing how most people ate, not the elite nobles, but from the list above, it seems like they were rather limited.

>>18398568
>predominantly small beer with ~2%ABV or less
This is usually presented as making the water safer to drink, but I don't think such little alcohol would help much.
Boiling maybe?

>>18398810
>This is usually presented as making the water safer to drink, but I don't think such little alcohol would help much.
>Boiling maybe?
Not just the alcohol alone and boiling alone but also the fairly low PH level and carbonation.

>>18398146
If you perpetually have to pay rent in order to remain in possession of something, you don't own it. Changing the word rent to tax doesn't alter the fact that you'll be evicted and it will be repossessed if you don't keep paying.

>>18399084
Still not addressing my original point I see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Your point doesn't change the part where allegedly "independent" farmers rely on the will of the land-owning nobles.
And you're wrong about rent vs property tax.
With special exceptions (eminent domain), if I own a piece of land, it's mine (and my heirs') forever, so long as the taxes are paid. The government can't take my land away on a whim.
Renters don't have that same privilege.

>>18396911
I wonder what the closest to that you could do with medieval ingredients or at least material they had access to.

Bread will obviously be there still.
Butter will obviously be there still.
If you really finely mill the cast offs from flour production you can get something analogous to polenta/grits. Cream of Wheat in the US is made like that. You can cook it into a block and then cut into strips and fry. Giving you a neutrally flavored fried starch as a stand in for the chips. There really isn't much else that could replace the potato there.
Ketchup will require some kind of sweet and sour sauce in place of it. Roman steak sauces from the preceding era had a similar flavor profile though. They used a combo of spices, sweeteners, grapes/other acidic fruits cooked down, and garum. Garum is gone by the medieval period, but cured fish should be available to break down into a paste for mixing.
Frosty Jacks is just really shit tier cider. So thats more than available.

So a brown bread (or lesser quality) sandwich with heavily salted butter, fried wheatmeal strips, and a sweet and sour sauce made from cooked down fruit and cured fish, makes your medieval chip butty.
Perfect for any squire or knave.

>>18398801
even the nobles has disgusting tastes like brewing wine with a gorillion spices to mask out how bad it was before watering it down like the romans did

>>18399906
garum is not gone by the medieval period, the byzantines were known to use it and it was still relatively common place in the south of italy where garum continues to be produced today
>cast offs from flour production
they didn't do that, everything went into flour. what they did was sieve the result into progressively finer stages. separating flour from the germ was only an industrial age thing that came about due to the roller mill. if you want porridge you'd just boil flour at any stage, it's not as difficult as you're describing. everyone ate wheat porridge AKA frumenty in this period. probably you'd even want the browner varieties of flour because it means more flavor and earthiness = closer to potatoes.

actual deep frying was rare however, you'd be best off making something like johnny cakes and if you're really going to go through the effort fry bread would turn out better

>>18399922
The spices were worth more than the wine back then. Even the best wine wasn't worth as much as the spices and imported fruits that went into it for that kind of mulled style.
It was a means of showing off wealth that today we don't appreciate. The idea of 'let the wine speak for itself' wasn't a thing back then because spices were far more interesting.

>>18385476
What would swans taste like if they were real?

>>18394960
They collected the trenchers after the meal to give to the poor as alms.

>>18396674
>>18396684
>>18396698
You know nothing. You are the equivalent of a redditor or a youtuber ranting without a single piece of evidence. They absolutely washed their hands. You wouldn't be here if your ancestors all died of germs you stupid nigger. Maybe your nigger mud hut ancestors eating dirt cookies and uncleaned intestines didn't understand to wash their hands but almost every table depiction includes basins and we have descriptions of water routinely being brought during a meal to clean. Stupid monkey niggers like you would have never discovered germs or germ theory because you're too stupid and dogmatic to learn anything.

>>18385785
>medieval peasants had zero cavities
You are definitely correct that modern diets with its refined sugars and more are a lot worse for cavities than what a peasant would have had access to, but this is just silly. Ancient hunter gatherers had cavities in about 14% of their teeth, medieval corpses have around 20%, dental implants have over 2000 years of history and it's not just because people lost them in fights.

>>18399922

Genuinely curious, when do you think wine magically became good and what process changed to make it so?

>>18400323
Wow, angry AND wrong. What a combination.
Rinsing <> washing.
And if you're to be believed, we "know" Euros washed because there are still white people today, but Africans didn't (even though they're still around) because "muh darkies is stupid".

>>18400566

Where's you evidence they only rinsed their hands. Hard evidence not a youtube video.

>>18395923
>Of course, fish would have lots of parasites.

Why even include this part? All of the parasites were killed during the cooking process.

>>18398508
>People shitting on medieval european food are retards.

Watch that history cook on youtube where he serves medieval dishes. A lot of it looks gnarly and unappetizing. It would suck to eat gruel every other day.

>>18400635

>man is bad at cooking and serving
>this means the cuisine is bad

>>18400566
We have hard evidence that soaps were made at home using ash and animal fat, sometimes with flowers like Lavendar for scent. This is common knowledge of a time even before medieval households. Why are you being deliberately disingenuous? Genuine lack of research into the matter or just a nigger?

>>18400566
You're a stupid worthless nigger, which is meaningless on its own. But when you're an annoying worthless nigger spewing stupidity it's extra annoying. It's not even like historical hygiene practices are obscure, there's tons of articles on this shit from macro to micro. But it's not just the lack of historical knowledge, it's your complete lack of logical reasoning. Meaning you must be a stupid nigger. If everyone was contracting e.coli and dying from hygiene related disease, where is the fucking evidence? Death records certainly don't indicate it. Rinsing does actually reduce bacteria retard, it's just not perfect and soap is significantly better and because soap is cheap now there's no reason not to. The idea that rinsing is no better than eating with shit on your hands is so stupid only a nigger could think that.
>>18400635
If they cooked them correctly. They didn't exactly have thermometers and waterborne parasites inevitably survived. It's also kinda gross, even today fish can be filled with parasites and back then with such large amount of fish the parasite population thrived. There was somewhat recent archaeological research done where they analyzed the stomach and intestine area of men buried in the Levant during the Crusades and found fossils of parasite and tapeworm eggs.

>>18400570
>Where's you evidence they only rinsed their hands.
I'm not even claiming they DID rinse, this Anon (you?) claimed they did, and I'm just willing to assume that's correct:
>>18400323
>almost every table depiction includes basins and we have descriptions of water routinely being brought during a meal to clean

>>18400689
Still not hearing "washed hands before eating".
Hell, even US Civil war surgeons often didn't wash before or between surgeries.

>>18400717
>If everyone was contracting e.coli and dying from hygiene related disease, where is the fucking evidence?

>>18400740

>Americans in the 19th century didn't do a thing
>this means medieval Europeans didn't do a thing either

>>18400771
People of the time knew nothing of germ theory, and likely practiced poor hygiene.
Probably a good part of why life expectancy in the middle ages was 33.
https://www.google.com/search?q=life+expectency+medieval+times

>>18400789
It's amazing that people still get confused by this. The metric hasn't changed for decades but somehow people still don't know what it's measuring. Even your own search results prove you wrong.
>>18400744
It's not a strawman because you don't even have an argument to begin with. You're just factually incorrect and ignorant like a nigger.

>>18400789
Average life expectancy is brought down by the inclusion of infant mortality rates. If you lived past infancy then most people died at 50+. Again, plenty of evidence of this, record keeping has been a thing for thousands of years so the past 700 years is well within our reach of understanding.

>>18400039
>if they were real

Don't know what country you're from but in the U.S. you can go to any local park with ponds in it and find swans there.

>>18400803
>Even your own search results prove you wrong.
I'm just telling you what Google told me.
>>18400803
>people still don't know what it's measuring.
>>18400810
>inclusion of infant mortality rates
OBVIOUSLY, infant mortality rates are influenced by poor hygiene.

Why do you assholes insist on romanticizing what was obviously a really dark time in our history?
I mean it's even CALLED the dark ages, you idiots.

>>18400803
>not a strawman because you don't even have an argument
Why/how are you disagreeing with me if I "don't even have an argument".
You claimed I said "everyone was contracting e.coli and dying from hygiene related disease", when I never said that.
That's a strawman. Is there a name for what's wrong with your brain?

>>18400970
I once told my grandson a story about a bear encounter, and he said "wait... bears are real?".
Still not sure if he was being serious or just a smart-ass.

>>18385664
>>18385785
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42nLNbtp3FY

>>18400980
Google tells you about 1 result in that life expectancy when excluding infant mortality was 55 from the 12th-19th centuries.
Again, please stop being disingenuous.
Also, infant mortality rates were affected by more than poor hygiene. Lack of food / appropriate shelter and coping with diseases that were out of the scope of contemporary medicines no matter how hygienic you were added to it a lot.
Fact of the matter is that in most modern religions, especially ones that stem from Abrahamic origins, place washing your hands before you eat as an important ritual and society in general was a lot more religious to the letter then so even if not for hygiene there was the religious aspect that would ensure hand washing before meals.
Middle ages were obviously harder to live in than modern times but they were by no means barbaric and dystopian. Many scientific / medicinal discoveries happened during the middle ages, and microbiology had been conceptualised as early as the Greeks in 600BC from Jainism. In the early 7th-10th centuries Western Europe would have many dealings with the Arabic world from Al-Andalus in the Iberian peninsula who were very advanced for the time with their medicines (Arabic / Islamic medicine being a huge contributor to humanity's general understanding of medicine and disease).
The attempts to paint the astoundingly rapid progress made by humans in areas of discovery as DARK AGES BARBARIANS and such is modern cope when faced with the fact that yes, some aspects of life may have indeed been nicer without the constant humming of technology.

>>18401003
"modern religion" here meaning of the past 2000 years.

>>18401003
>12th-19th centuries.
>Again, please stop being disingenuous.
The middle ages were between the 5th and 15th centuries, not the 12th and 19th.

>infant mortality rates were affected by more than poor hygiene.
Sure, mortality rates in general were influenced by a variety of shitty conditions in medieval times (see >>18400996), but I'm still not hearing about good hygiene.

>most modern religions, especially ones that stem from Abrahamic origins, place washing your hands before you eat as an important ritual
in the dark ages.
[citation needed] Quote me some bible verses, and I'll point out it was illegal for a commoner to even own a bible in those days.

>by no means barbaric and dystopian.
AGAIN, see: >>18400996
It was a horrible time to be alive in Europe.

>Many scientific / medicinal discoveries
NO. ffs. facepalm.jpg. Do you even understand why they were called the dark ages? And why the renaissance was called the renaissance?

>Jainism
There were no fucking Jains in medieval Europe, you absolute Mong.

>Arabic world ... who were very advanced for the time
Compared to Euros? OF FUCKING COURSE. Europe had descended into a Mad-Max style wasteland, but without the gasoline-based residual tech.

>astoundingly rapid progress made by humans in areas of discovery
Pure fiction.

>>18401087
>12th-19th century does not include 12th-15th centuries
Okay. Anyway, that's simply what Google's result gives, which is what you were asking for. The life expectancy for an adult past infancy was still higher than fucking 30 even from early centuries BC.
>it was illegal for a commoner to own a bible
It was prohibited to translate bibles into native languages, thus stopping commoner ownership sort of by default, but commoners attended services where the priest would read the bible and also interpret. A lot of middle ages literacy was actually biblical studies and interpretations to circumnavigate the inability to directly translate.
>Compared to Euros? OF FUCKING COURSE
Ah, we're arguing with a deceitful shitskin boys. I knew the comments about Islamic medicine would reveal this. Move along lads.

>>18399764
>with exceptions such as eminent domain
you already btfo out of your own argument. You own nothing. That land title you're so proud of merely entitles you to keep renting "your' piece of land, until such a time that you fail to pay your rent or the landlord decides it needs it back, at which point you'll be evicted like any other renter. It certainly has the desired effect of giving people the illusion of ownership though.

>>18385538
>let's pretend i was X and did Y
>but achtually you weren't! that's not real what you said!

>>18401269
Dude nice you posted the chud dude haha

>>18400537
Most people of that opinion would say the turn of the century heading into the 1950s. Where industrial processing and ingredient/temperature/climate/pH regulation became a significant part of the wine making industry. When it stopped being all handmade and got some heavy standardization.

>>18400717
People died in shitloads back then.
Until the early 1800s cities actively killed off more people than where born in them and only stayed in existence via immigration.

>>18401116
>what Google's result gives, which is what you were asking for.
I gave you a URL (https://www.google.com/search?q=life+expectency+medieval+times)), not sure what you're getting, but I'm seeing:
>In the Middle Ages, the average life span of males born in landholding families in England was 31.3 years
And those are nobles, not peasants.
>The life expectancy for an adult past infancy was still higher than fucking 30 even from early centuries BC.
Show me where I ever said otherwise.

>thus stopping commoner ownership
So I'm right about that too, huh?

>the priest would read the bible and also interpret.
Sorry, no. The Catholic Mass only had the sermon in the native tongues, up until the 1950's.

>deceitful shitskin boys
Wrong again, I'm a lily white, (fallen) Catholic.
Nice to know you're a fascist, racist pig though.
I hope your mother's proud.

>>18401144
>or the landlord decides it needs it back
No, that's not how property ownership works.
So sorry you're too poor to own property, but let's not take our frustrations out on other Anon's, huh?
mmmmk

>>18401410
Eminent domain.

>>18401427
>Eminent domain.
...is a much higher burden for the government than "fuck off" is for a landlord.
It's often fought successfully in court, requires the government to have a public use need (roads, etc.).
It's like you don't even live on this planet.

>>18401116
>>18401427
I'm done with you retards and your bullshit off-topic posting. I'm now only going to respond to food & cooking related posts.

>>18386905
Just look up the Capitulary of Charlemegne (800 ad).
Theres plenty on the list that provides vitamin C.
Scurvy only became a problem on long sea voyages during the age of exploration

>>18401587
>Theres plenty on the list that provides vitamin C
Good. I was pretty sure they grew citrus in Spain, for instance.
I was responding to OP's much shorter list:
>>18385476
>>eat pork, swans, lamb, and bread all with your hands
>>wine as beverage

>>18385664
this is what bill Gates and co want you eating today except fully vegan
Whatever you do, do not let them control the food supply

>>18401437
>bro, my rental totally isn't a rental
>even though I have to keep paying rent
>even though the land lord can repossess it even if I do pay rent
>but they have to REALLY NEED it
>and they even gave me the opportunity to spend ruinous amounts on legal fees to prove to their appointed arbiter their need isn't great enough
The perfect serf.

>>18401328
To be fair, modern cities are the same in that more people die in them than are born, and they require steady immigration to maintain their population. Though these days it is more due to birth control / abortion reducing the number of children being born, rather than high death rates.

>>18401623
bread provides vitamin c

>>18385785
>ale, salmon, hearty bread, mushy peas
fuck, why did I watch this hungry?

I dunno if this counts as medieval food or just bush tucker, but bullrush rhizomes, squirrel/ptarmigan meat, and wild mushrooms (plus an msg rich bullion cube) makes for a tasty stew.

peasant pussy (whitegrl)
:10/11

>>18401853
British women, now that's savage cunny, have to hunt them like deer. Mind when you do get them under you, slack as your best Narbo scortum

>>18401844
So that's where hot dogs come from!

>>18401870
PULLOOOOOOO!

>>18400980
Google told you the average life expectancy from birth was 33. Which means the child at birth on average was expected to live until 33. It doesn't tell you anything about hygiene, death rates, or mortality. It also doesn't tell you the average life expectancy of someone past their infancy. That's why it's so low. You and so many uneducated retards do not understand the metric so you interpret it as people are all dying.

You don't have an argument because you don't know the first fucking thing about the middle ages outside of whatever you can google to extent this petulant argument because your stupid nigger monkey brain won't accept being wrong.
>>18401328
Cities were different back then. It wasn't until after the middle ages that cities grew to such rates that they were dependent on migration. That was also when they became extremely dirty. We have lots of examples of medieval cities having health ordinances and health ministers as well as regulations and restrictions on dumping and water usage. These documents usually appear most prominently when there's a big growth but we have some from the 13th century as well for Paris and Florence.

All you trying to imagine what life was like, not what it is like today, Now. Tomorrow....

>>18400970
wow ur a pretty smart fella

>>18386718
SAVE HIM HE'S CHOKING!!!!! APU-SAN!!!!!!!

I can't believe I wasted my time reading all the autism in this thread.

>>18390037
This is a pretty good cookbook. Some meme recipes but mostly solid.

>>18385476
>>>eat pork, swans, lamb, and bread all with your hands
they literally had forks you fucking cunt

>>18385476
Recommend me some good medieval cookbooks. I don't mind if they're fantasy oriented.

I already have El Llibre de Sent Soví which is a receptary in catalan from 1324 but I'd like to expand the collection.