/ck/ - Food & Cooking

folded

Kiyoshi Kato sujihiki coming on tuesday. Full unboxing and review when it arrives.

>>18167577
Looks cool, but brass and copper both tarnish so easily and the tarnish tastes terrible I wouldn't buy a knife like that personally.

>>18167577
Have fun with your copper poisoning.

>>18167634
>I wouldn't buy a knife like that personally
I think it's really just a decorative/ceremonial knife at that price, not for regular use

I need a good knife for cutting sushi rolls, please help me

>>18167577
If we're going that fancy, why exclude any other smiths that get as fancy, if not more so? Off the top of my head I can think of 5 master smiths who make chef knives in the US alone.

>>18167724
I already know the knives will be ugly because they are American

>>18167730
Tasteless weeb.

>>18167724
>western ""smiths""

>>18167735
prove me wrong then lol

>>18167730
This. And way overpriced. No, I’m not going to spend $450 for your stubby 7” chef’s knife—you can call it a “funayuki” all you want. It’s a stubby chef’s knife that’s not very useful and way too expensive.

>>18167737
How can I prove the subjective opinion of a tasteless weeb wrong? I don't give a fuck what you think about them after the shitshow you've posted in such a short time.

>>18167724
nah you're confused bro you're thinking of Mr. Smith... you haven't got any master smiths over there

>>18167645
Weeb latina archetypes are sexy as fuck

>>18167758
Weeb hispanic girls are disgusting
>source: has met way too many of them

>>18167736
you have to go back almost thirty years to find any smiths worth mentioning outside of japan

>>18167724
>american smiths
>all make knives that ape japanese designs but with the gaudiest, faggiest handles known to man
truly incredible

Someone wanted

>>18169426
those don't look too bad actually

>>18167577
all japanese handles suck. They've never made a good handle. Every japanese knife needs to be rehandled to be decent.

>>18170001
I shudder to think what horrors might qualify as "good handles" in your American mind...

Gesshin Ginga in W#2.

>>18170015
An absolute joy to use. For a long time it was recommended as the go to mid budget laser, though I haven't really kept up with knife trends in the last two years so don't know the current meta.

Newly sharpened here but I'm thinking about reducing the angle on the bevel a little bit I've basically just been following the bevel it shipped with but I think it's backed up into thicker parts of the blade now. Thoughts?

>>18170001
A while back there was a knife company in one of those hip "industrial" (not really) places in the northeast USA that was selling knives with pic related grips as handles, I suspect that is what they mean. America was a mistake

>>18170001
The handle is just there to balance the blade against your palm. You should not be gripping a Japanese blade by the handle. You should always be using a pinch grip on the blade itself. Saying that a basic magnolia wood handle "sucks" is proof that you don't understand this.

>>18170019
is it wedging on carrots?

>>18170054
Just tested it and no actually. Still sticking a little bit even.

>>18170093
then I wouldn't worry about it yet. You can probably go lower on the primary angle but if it's thin enough that it glides through carrots and sharp enough for bell pepper skins and whatnot then I wouldn't start fussing right away

>>18170015

how do you fellas know when it's time to thin?

>>18170423
it's 100% feel. when it feels too thick, I thin.

Recently spent a few weeks in Osaka and had a nakiri made for me in Sakai-shi. Gensan steel, hand-forged, natural finish magnolia d-shape handle.
All I have to do is point it at a vegetable, and the veg will slice itself.

>>18170423
buy a 10$ micrometer and write down statistics in a notebook

>>18170479
sakai knives #1. sanjo piss

Bokerface :DDD

>>18171429
the handle is very attractive, ngl

let's see a quick onion rough dice webm, if you've got it in you...

Do you fags have a buying guide for this shit? I have the €55 amazon basics from a few years ago and it's ok, but I wonder if an upgrade actually does something

>>18171649
gearfags always trying to buy skill

>>18171649
Read the last thread, there was some kinda guide posted there, if that doesn't immediately help you just lurk moar

>>18171649
tell me a couple details and I'll tell you what I'd buy:

how much do you want to spend?
do you want it to be stainless even if that means a worse knife for the money?
what's your preferred size of chef knife: small and manageable or a bit larger?
would you rather have something you can beat up or something that is harder and more brittle (but cuts better)?

>>18171649

>useful sites to find knives:
japaneseknifeimports.com
japanesechefsknife.com
japanesenaturalstones.com
chefknivestogo.com
knivesandstones.us
korin.com
japanny.com
hocho-knife.com
kitchenknifeforums.com (BST section)

>not a guide, but some quick notes to get you started:
-Single bevel vs. double bevel: Single bevel knives are mostly specialty kitchen knives, usually used for a single task, such as filleting a certain fish Japanese style or peeling a vegetable into paper-thin strips to be decoration on plates at restaurants. In general, as a beginner, you're going to want to look at double bevel knives

-Handle types: All comes down to personal preference. Japanese style handles are generally meant to be lightweight because the knives are intended to be used with a pinch grip (holding the blade, not the handle); western style handles are usually available if you prefer, and are easier to wash

-Blade thickness: Most Japanese knives have a convex grind across the body of the blade, which aids with food release. There's a variety in blade thickness, though, with the thinnest blades being better for slicing through hard foods while wet foods are more likely to stick to them, while the thicker blades are better for food release but more likely to wedge in hard foods.

-Blade types: For general purpose: gyuto, santoku or similarly-shaped blades. Petty and sujihiki might be next-most useful depending on how handy you are on a cutting board, but always get a gyuto or santoku first. IMO, a shorter gyuto or petty can do most of the work of a paring knife, if handled skillfully enough.

-Steel: Carbon steels (white and blue) have some advantages over certain stainless steels in how easy they are to sharpen, although many Japanese stainlesses are easy to sharpen and will sharpen up 98.5% as sharply, like ginsan. Carbon steel will discolor with use and rust with abuse.

-Sharpening: Learn to sharpen with water stones!

>>18171752
>how much do you want to spend?
max €50 for a chef's knife (Europe if it wasn't obvious)

>do you want it to be stainless even if that means a worse knife for the money?
Durability and longevity is preferable to performance, so probably stainless steel

>what's your preferred size of chef knife: small and manageable or a bit larger?
I don't know what the ideal size is, but I probably don't need a big one

>would you rather have something you can beat up or something that is harder and more brittle (but cuts better)?
Definitely prefer durability

>>18171796
thanks

>>18171796
Not a bad primer.
If you post it more in the future, you may want to add a note to the steel bit about Japanese knife steel usually being made harder than western steel. It gives an advantage to edge retention, but the disadvantage of brittleness.
Don’t cut bone. Don’t cut frozen stuff. Don’t chop like it’s an axe or heavy cleaver. And you are likely to chip/break the blade if you drop it into a tile floor or similar.
many people who buy expensive Japanese knives fuck them up because they weren’t aware of this.

>>18171822
>Definitely prefer durability
It isn’t really a matter of durability so much as it’s how forgiving the knife is to abuse.
You can’t be as rough with harder steel, and you don’t want to drop it; you shouldn’t be doing those things anyway, but it comes down to how well you can trust yourself to not do those things.

>>18171822
victorinox fibrox it is

>>18171649
Actually there's a basic guide to get you started, picrel, 3 parts.
If you want advice it would help to at least get the data others asked for (usecase, budget, what market (location)), but also knife type.
(1/3)

>>18171979
(2/3)

>>18171985
(3/3)

what is le bestie westie knifey wifey for 80-100 dollaridoos

>>18171838
>If you post it more in the future
I ran out of space (2000 characters) but feel free to copypasta anything I wrote, edit and repost in future threads. I won't be saving it.

>>18171999
Can you try again, but this time in not in Retardese?

>>18172038
I used to be retarded. He said he needs a muttburger knaifu for poorfags.

>>18171649
Buy a Shibazi slicing cleaver.
It'll do everything you could want good enough and double as a bench scraper.

>>18167724
post some then knife porn is mmph

Posted my masahshi yamamoto petty last thread, got it custom engraved by the sick kvnt himself today at my local knife shop
according to the translation he did, my name in kanji turns out to House Of Lightning, which is pretty fucking metal
Guy was super nice, barely spoke a word of english but did his best to have a conversation with me while engraving my knife.

>>18173679
>mashahsi
Mashashi*
Picrel, super happy about it
really enjoying the knife

>>18173698
drunk cunt moment
its masashi
*and*
house of thunder*

>>18173698
Nice knife
I hope it breaks

>>18174024
thanks, fag
hope the tip of your dick falls off from monkeypox

>>18171796
to those sites I'd add the hitohira dealers: carbon knife co, bernal cutlery, strata portland. they carry some good stuff

>>18173698
nice knife, thunderhouse

>>18171589
I am not at work today, will be tomorow tho if I remember I ll record some.

can someone recommend a honing rod? they all seem so expensive

>>18174385
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112123770304?hash=item1a1b18f5c0:g:-dAAAOSwiCRUh3EJ
I have this one at work its been going stronge for some 6 years and is not really expensive.

>>18174395
On second note I have found them half the price in my own country. Its kinda hard to find as it has no proper name -.- , and also its made in two types.

Is it physically possible to convert an un-tapered into a convex taper? I have a 1mm blade kiwi nakiri
my 400grit isn't doing much considering I'm grinding down the entire blade from spine to edge
should I go lower grit?

>>18174784
why wouldn't it be possible? as long as there's enough metal, I don't see why you can't. just abrade some material from behind the edge at an angle lower than your sharpening angle, no? you can also do a bit of a subtle rolling motion

>>18175520
>why wouldn't it be possible?
because my arms are tired as fuark

>>18175612
you shouldn't be grinding down the whole blade from spine to edge, as you said

you should be targeting specific areas to reduce material

grinding everything is just making the whole knife thinner, not convexing

>>18175670
>grinding everything is just making the whole knife thinner, not convexing
well im not grinding using any machinary or clamp, so it will naturally be convex but fuck me it takes alot of grind even at 400 grit

Well the knife showed up early. I guess the shig will be here tuesday. Sweet.


>>18175719
I would reccomend scribing a line 1/3 or 1/2 the way up the knife and only grinding that to make a convex edge. It will be a lot faster. You need a 120 grit to do anything reasonably quickly. 400 grit diamond works pretty quick.

>>18175889
Feels good to finally hold a knife with this kanji on it!

The knife's fit and finish isn't incredible. The choil is unpolished and roughly shaped and the spine is rounded, but not very much. I knew that going in and will most likely work on touching up the choil.

The edge is very very sharp. I'm going to take a peek at it under the scope and may take it to the Jnats for a touch up.

Aside from the choil the distal taper and straightness of the blade is absolutely perfect.

>>18175908
distal taper I understand, but do you generally find fault with the straightness of other knives?

>>18176033
Not in any way that effects function, usually, but there is a standard tolerance for straightness in handmade blades, and this one is perfect.

It's quite difficult to make such a long blade ,270mm, perfectly straight as well.

Check out this shit: It's made from the hardest metal: DIAMOND!

>>18176115
>It's made from the hardest metal: DIAMOND!
fucking retard, everyone knows what the real hardest metal is

>>18175908
>with this kanji on it!
what does it say?

>>18176115
>shatters

>>18176231
The pleasure of being cummed inside

>>18176231
no idea but I think he's referring to the fact that it's a Kato

>>18175908
>>18176269
Er... Where did you buy that...?

Nevermind, I figured it out... I was just having a really, really hard time with the first kanji. I got the rest "原良明作," and when I googled that string of kanji, I found a Yoshiaki Fujiwara knife, with the first kanji (fuji) being some sort of engraver's shorthand of 藤, which I'd never seen before, but apparently that's just how they do it.

Choil shot.

>>18176325
I got really lucky when the danish weeb put it up on his site. In like 6 months he has sold 3 or 4 of his kitchen knives.

>>18176330
Well done.

>>18176330
Also if you want I'm interested in what this says. My guess is it has to do with the steel that was used, which is a special old stock hitachi yasuki white #1 steel.

>>18176427
https://jisho.org/search/%E9%A6%AC%E8%BB%8A%E9%A6%AC

>>18176449
>both a kanji's on- and kunyomi used in a single word
Yeah, fuck this language

>>18176764
>fuck this language
English is 1000x more retarded, if you think about it.
Shit, we have that classic example of “Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.” being a 100% grammatically correct sentence.

>>18176780
yeah but nobody's going to engrave that on a knife

>>18176780
>>18176764
Stop being drama queens. Holy shit.

>>18176791
I'd feel pretty buffaloed if someone did.

sanjo niggas will drop $1000 on the most basic looking knife you've ever seen, you ask them what the fuck and they talk your ear off about oh the smith is 85 years old, soon you won't be able to get these, he is the only one who knows how to make this special grind, blah blah blah...

I'm a sakai knife kind of guy, if I spend more than $300 on a knife it better be extravagant. look at this knife, I'd buy this knife.

i have never spent more than 40 bucks for a knoif, what am I missing out on?

>>18176816
>disgusting language syntax
>drama queens
Take some fucking meds and go to bed, Brayden

>>18177088
>debating knives as if it’s a fucking game console
Zoom along, zoomie.
If the maker of a superior handmade item is going to be dead soon, then yes. Value goes up.
>I'm a sakai knife kind of guy
Don’t speak of Sakai-shi as if it churns out magically cheap knives.
As with Seki-shi, or anywhere else, you get what you pay for. There are countless knives from Sakai-shi that run over $1k, and their natural sharpening stones can run several times that.

Hi /ck/ I know those of you who browse this thread love knife consuming. So I have some knife consumer questions for you
Pic rel is my current sharpener
is there an all-in-one sharpening kit that's good?
Is something like a Lansky better than doing it the autistic way?
The impression I get from nice knives is that the point of diminishing returns hits somewhere around the $65 Victorinox and accelerates rapidly once you spend more than like $150, is this accurate?
What's the best knife you can get under $200?

>>18177190
I still hate every other part of cooking but I love cutting everything up. when everything comes together just right, you have a perfect knife, and a good cutting board, and the right technique, it's like for a minute you're Adam in the garden of Eden again, just being. I don't get a lot of joy in my miserable life

>>18177198
>language syntax
Neither of you babbys discussed syntax. One babby said that kanji is hard. The other babby said that some ridiculous sentence is ridiculous, and therefore the whole language is le dum dum.

>>18177223
>Sakai-shi
nigga what the fuck

even weeaboos dont do this shit

>>18177246
Both statements were literally about syntax.
The fact that you fail to recognize this because neither explicitly stated “well this is just weird syntax roflmao tippytopkek” shows that you can’t recognize that which you’re expressing an opinion about.

>>18177269
Retard.

>>18177251
>comes into thread clearly identified by OP as being about Japanese knives
>OMG someone used the Japanese term for a famous knife-making city!
>REEEEEEEEEEE
That’s really a bit sad.

>>18177273
I accept your concession, dumbass-kun

>>18177278
You don't know what "syntax" means. There is no further debating with you, since you insist on being a retard.

>>18177274
this is an english language website. I don't care what OP says, nobody ever gets a free pass to be a repulsive smelly weeb

>>18177316
Finish your homework and go to bed, Brayden.

>>18177088
Registered sword smith, best in the game traditional heat treat, "rare" steel, superb blade geometry, and being able to use and own a master's work. Happy to drop big bucks for that. I'd prefer a knife that is functionally superior to one that looks cool any day. That being said some cool aspects enhance functionality like a mirror polish, polished choil and spine, etc.

>>18177225
A lansky works, but imo you're better off getting a good 1-1.5k whetstone and then buying a 400 grit if you need to do chip repair. Those two are really all you need unless you're doing major repairs.

You're just about correct for factory made, mass produced knives, it's a different story with handmade knives.

Impossible to say best knife because there's many different styles you may want, but a munetoshi gyuto is great value(170 usd) for a handmade knife if that appeals to you.

comfy

>>18177773
Chip repair stones should come before high grit stones. A knife will cut very nicely off a 500 grit stone. A dull knife can't be helped much by a 1.5k unless you want to spend all day on it

>>18177773
even if any of that shit matters it's going to make the knife cut what, 3% better? vs having 1000% more swag for half the $... to me that's an easy choice!

>>18178468
Fair enough. Using very heavy pressure on a 1.5k stone makes things go pretty quickly, but a 400 grit will be easier.

>>18178546
Ultra knifelet.

>>18178814
no seriously how much better do you think an $800 sanjo museum piece cuts than a beautiful $400 sakai knife? where would you put the number?
4%?
8%?
50%?
100%?

>>18178828
Not that anon, but why are you classifying knives by city?

sanjo knives look like they belong in a toolshed, not a kitchen

>>18178828
Explain to me how you can quantify "cutting better" and I will consider trying to give you a number. Also just so you know Kato's shop is in Hokuto not Sanjo, but we can try to figure something out using comparing Shigefusa knives I suppose.

Answer me this as well. Why do you think Shig's and Kato's knives are considered to be the most highly sought after in all of Japan?

>>18178874
Ummmm

>>18178856
Japan is very different from America in that the culture is often very localized. Some cities come to be known for certain things because other locals teach each other and build off what they accomplish locally. Mass communication and mass transit are relatively recent in the counties very long history.

>>18178874
Those are REALLY sharp

>>18178895
>Why do you think Shig's and Kato's knives are considered to be the most highly sought after in all of Japan?
because of some crafty dealer somewhere who concocted the perfect story to drive internet hobbyists into a purchasing frenzy

>>18167758
>Latina
These are indigenous brown people. Latinas look more Spanish than indigenous.

>>18178904
>the culture is often very localized
Yup. I have a house (and wife) in Osaka. There are a handful of cities known for cutlery, with the top two probably being Sakai and Seki.
Seki seems to be the most well known in Japan, but their local knife industry also does a ton of national promotion.
I just meant there isn’t any real correlation between which “knife”city it’s made in and cost/quality. They all have makers that range from affordable to fuck-you-expensive.
People really only care if it happens to be local to the region. If I go to a high-end knife store in Osaka, then it’s going to be 99% Sakai products.

Pic related: a case of fuck-you-expensive Sakai products at my favorite knife store in Osaka.

>>18178934
Any evidence for that or are you just parroting other coping knifelets?

>>18178958
yes I have all the original email transcripts to prove it. I'd post them but they're on the hard drive of my other computer at my beach house

>>18178941
>¥750,000 sharpening stone
>converts to just under $5700US
Fuck me that’s a lot for a rock.
I mean I’m sure it’s worth it to some dude whose livelihood depends on having the sharpest knife possible, but damn.

>>18178976
My bad, read it wrong.
¥715k, not 750.
That’s still $5400 though.

>>18178976
>>18178980
In Japan their natural whetstones can be thought of as almost like precious gems and a lot of different things contribute to their value. That looks like a sort of "perfect" stone. It's a crazy/interesting cultural thing. Any stone that expensive is an incredibly rare collector's piece, while also being highly functional.

>>18179002
Maybe it’s also a stone with a mineral composition that makes it amazing for sharpening but only occurs in a very small geographical area.

There’s a small area in Iga with a clay that is unique in the amount of volcanic material it contains, and is supposedly ideal for heat retention.
So the clay cooking pots made by the multigenerational craftsmen in this area fetch premiums far above “normal” clay pots.

>>18179038
The veins of rock that the Japanese use for their stones actually travels all the way up into russia, but the dank shit is probably only in Japan I'm not 100% on that. Maybe the russians don't care as much. Idk.

The mineral quality is literal perfection for sharpening steel. It's a hard binder with chert quartz as the abrasive. Comes in many different hardness and fineness levels with different impurities that contribute to the stone qualities. Love me some Jnats.

Kinda like yixing teapots with the high iron content clay, except much more complex.

Which one should I get?

https://bernalcutlery.com/collections/sujihiki

>>18179123
>sort by price: high to low
>skip the ones that are sold out
>https://bernalcutlery.com/collections/sujihiki/products/hitohira-togashi-270mm-sujihiki-shirogami-2-kurouchi-tagayasan-handle?variant=42982494863581
looks good to me

>>18179147
what a beauty

>>18179147

i can't afford that

>>18179170
well you can't be far off if you were considering their other offerings. just save up a little more

Literally all you need. Cuts everything. Also because it's so broad it reduces stress on the wrist and it functions as a kind of 'scooper' for transferring cut ingredients to a plate or pan. It's very convenient and nothing matches it. Can't go back to a thin knife after. They seem pointless

>>18179322
Forgot pic

>>18179324
I like my nakiri, but the first time I used it I missed having a sharpened tip for precision stuff.

Buck

>knife
>japanese knife

>>18180127
Why?

>>18180211
It will do anything an expensive chef knife can do, and then more. Such as disemboweling animals and poking fire

>>18180268
>been using a knife to play in the fire
>can do anything an expensive chef's knife can do
Aside from keep a temper lol.

>>18180268
So it's not really good at any one thing? Is it worth it to have a knife that "does it all"?

>>18180268
>It will do anything an expensive chef knife can do
That knife is terrible for use on a cutting board. Pretty much anything that needs to be done on a cutting board, that thing will suck balls--dicing onions, cutting carrots, slicing tomatoes...The thick blade is good for processing carcasses because it's not going to chip if you wedge it into a joint and pry the joint apart, while still maintaining some ability to cut meat. However, anything soft, it won't be sharp enough and will mangle. Anything too had, it's going to wedge in. And in general, the blade is way too short to work on a cutting board.

>>18180363
It's good at cutting up an animal carcass for transport onto your pickup truck. That's it. It sucks for literally everything else.

>>18180362
You'd be suprised
>>18180363
I've got more knives of course, but this would be my go to if I could only have 1 in the kitchen
>>18180370
Blade length is 7-3/8 "..... Have you ever tried using one? Sounds like you're making shit up. It works great from meat prep to veg prep.

>>18180386
>You'd be suprised
No, I wouldn't. It's not made of magic. Temper starts to change around 400 or just above depending on the type of steel. You're sticking it in 900-1600F. Retard.

>>18180390
Post knives

>>18180386
>Blade length is 7-3/8 "..... Have you ever tried using one? Sounds like you're making shit up. It works great from meat prep to veg prep.
Confirmed /out/ larper.

You don't get it. Length is just about the least important dimension for a knife to have for cutting board use. The height of the blade is pretty important--you don't want your knuckles hitting the board with every cut, do you? or getting in the way of being able to fully press the blade to the board. There is nowhere near enough clearance with that knife. Even the bolster is taller than the blade. It's funny because you are so clueless. Next, those hunting knives are way too thick to be actual good cutters. The blade is too thick behind the edge, meaning that your edge is not only not going to be very sharp (so it will mangle soft food items, like tomatoes), but once you cut into something hard, like a carrot, thick potato, squash, etc., the blade will wedge (i.e., get stuck) in it. They also usually have a chisel grind, which means that, even if it were tall enough to use on a board and sharp enough to be useful, all vegetables will constantly get stuck to the blade instead of falling off like they would from an actually competent chef's knife.

>>18180422
I'm not emptying my fucking drawers for you in a long-ass vanity project. I've worked in the industry for too long and have a ton of knives between cooking, carrying, and other use.

My primary two knives I use are a Messermeister Meridian Elite which I use for pretty much everything, and a very thin gyuto from Seki for fine work. I have 2 boning knives, a flexible fillet knife, a vegetable cleaver, a heavy meat cleaver, a sujihiki (great for processing meat), etc etc etc etc etc not including camping shit and a few pocket knives.

>>18180474
Why even reply? When someone resorts to "post your X to prove your mettle," you know that they have no argument, and can just be ignored.

>>18180428
>>18180474
>>18180537
Dish pit Bitches confirmed

I love Japan

>>18177225
I'm back
>>18177773
Thank you for the recommendation. Is there any benefit to getting w(h)etstones over a lansky other than show?
The munetoshi gyuto I could not find for $170, I found it for just over $200. It looks like a great knife though
Does anyone else have any recommendations for best general purpose/chef's knife under $200? I am interested in the munetoshi but want to see what the other options are.

It's here. Immaculate finish. Going to chop some veggies with this beauty tonight to see how it cuts.

Side note: I examined the edge of the kato sujihiki under magnification and it definitely needs a major touch up. The edge is super sharp, but doesn't look great under the microscope, so with a touch up I'll be able to pull more performance out of it with a proper Jnat edge. Planning on getting a chuck roast soon and slicing it up or something like that.

>>18180948
Japanesenaturalstones.com has a mune gyuto for like 165. It has the kurouchi finish.

Whetstones I find more convenient and faster than a lansky. The only thing to look for is a splash and go stone like a shapton ceramic. Some stones need to be soaked for 10+ minutes and I dislike that.

You can also apply a lot more pressure to a whetstone for faster work, and if you're ever out in the wild with a dull knife you have the skills to use any old rock to sharpen your knife.

Last thing is if you're getting a munetoshi gyuto the blade road or kireha is finished with a very low grit that you can polish with a whetstone if you're ever bored one day.

>>18181088
The ura is almost more impressive than the front of the blade.

>>18180474
>I'm not emptying my fucking drawers for you in a long-ass vanity project.
on /fa/ we have a saying: talk shit, post fit. your shit talk means nothing if you have no skin in the game. I will be disregarding your posts, have a nice day.

>>18181408
>on /fa/
It all makes sense now

>>18179322
what's you're favorite chinese cleaver?

>>18181408
Based reply
>>18181439
Soy , victorinox user

Love this lil nigga like you wouldn't believe

How do you cope with the fact that there's literally no functional difference between your $600 Japanese handcrafted knife made by some guy who's a knifemaker in the 15th generation and a $40 Victorinox?

>>18181959
Dang, really nice.
I hope it breaks.

>>18181959
gorgeous knife, anon
love the finish on it

>>18182084
You’re applying cope to the wrong person here, likely due to the fact that you are projecting hard.

>>18181408
>>18181832
Imagine replying to yourself like this, lmao

>>18182084
>how do you cope with enjoying owning and using nice things
I dunno man, it’s difficult.

>>18177225
See >>18171985 .
Basically full size sharpening stone > lansky > good electric pull through (your seems like a clone, no idea if it's good) > normal pull through > not sharpening at all
Read that part of the guide, what you need isn't a "all in one sharpening kit", but at least 1 stone, possibly a combination stone. Make sure at least one of the stones you have (or one side if its a combi stone) is in the 800-1200 grit range. That will be your workhorse for sharpening. If you want to or eventually have to fix knives with chipping, get a fixing stone too. If you want a high end finish (beyond what is needed for cooking, but nice to have), go into the polishing stone territory. That should be 1 stone, maybe 1 combination stone. Get a cheap synthetic one if money is a problem, then while using that one up you'll see if a expensive one is worth it. If you want perfection, get a leather strop or do the DIY belt solution mentioned in the guide, finish your knives with that.
A lansky is convenient for beginners, but gets tedious quick. Take it from someone who started with one and switched later, just get a full size stone to begin with. Lanskys are only good if you need to sharpen survival knives / knives with weird edges.
For your other questions read part 1 and 3 of the guide too.

>>18178895
>Why do you think Shig's and Kato's knives are considered to be the most highly sought after in all of Japan?
I'm not that anon but if you think the way the market finds price of any good is purely performance you are delusional. The answer is usually a combination of performance, price, marketing and brand value, with the latter two playing a significant role. The "price quality assumption" is strong with high end knives.

>>18182585
I’m not that anon, but I doubt many people think as you describe.
Anyone who buys a very high end handmade knife knows that it’s essentially a functional art piece, and much of the value is determined by the skill of the maker and how well known he is.
Nobody with a $500 knife claims it cuts food precisely 10x better than a $50 knife.

>>18182526
yea that would be sad. lucky for me that's not what happened

>>18171838
>many people who buy expensive Japanese knives fuck them up because they weren’t aware of this.

Everyone I've met IRL who uses a japanese knife thinks it's funny that people say this shit. The overwhelming majority of japanese knives aren't yanagis

>>18181408
>on /fa/
PLEASE get a trip so I can filter your shit opinions, child

>>18167590
made me lol

>a chef guy buys a jap knife
>week later it has noticeable chipping

What a meme.

>>18182645
If that was true anon, I'd 100% agree. But I don't think it is. As a artpiece they are beautiful things and of course they cut amazingly well too. But they are neither essential nor are they good "value for money" unless you take into account the art value of it. Anons like the shig anon who seem to just really enjoy their knives and collect them are based, I love seeing people be passionate about something. My issue is that you will regularly see posters pretend that anything below "japanese handmade by a geriatric recluse in the mountains" is basically junk. The truth is that knives, like almost any good, follow a S-curve when it comes to value for money, maybe even a root curve. Any money you put into it at the low end will bring massive gains in better performance, but once you leave the mid market sector you get marginal gains. If you value a handmade knife as art, great. If you pretend it's better value than the knife that costs a third and cuts 95% as good, then I start getting annoyed.
I wonder if the people who do that annoying shit are bitter, have a inferiority complex or bought a very expensive knife and now want to retroactively justify it, but either way it's annoying. Then of course there's similar retards on the other end of the spectrum like >>18182084 who seem just as insecure.
>much of the value is determined by [...] how well known [the maker] is.
That's basically what I was trying to say by "marketing and brand". Sure there are differences in quality, but let's be honest a large part is the mythos surrounding it and (sometimes artificial, sometimes natural) scarcity.

>>18182737
they don't cut "95% as good" though. they cut 70% as good at best. and they aren't even 1% as good at making you feel like a cool ass dude

Threadly reminder that a 21cm monosteel japanese carbon knife and 500/1000 is all you need

>>18182799
one of these days you need to take a new photo of that bad boy

>>18182680
>Everyone I've met IRL who uses a japanese knife thinks it's funny that people say this shit
Probably because you know people who actually know something about what they purchased. Go to any Japanese knife on Amazon with a decent amount of reviews and you’ll find many talking about it breaking/chipping because someone dropped it or tried to aggressively chop something hard. Just filter for the shit reviews, because of course it’s the knife’s fault.
>The overwhelming majority of japanese knives aren't yanagis
I’m not saying they shatter like glass.
Harder steel is more brittle, period. So breaking a tip or chipping the edge of a knife made of harder steel due to abuse or clumsiness is going to be far more an issue than with a knife made of softer steel.

>>18182799
C H I P P E D
H
I
P
P
E
D

>>18182799
can confirm

>>18182799
why are you watercooling it?

>>18182737
>My issue is that you will regularly see posters pretend that anything below "japanese handmade by a geriatric recluse in the mountains" is basically junk
I’m curious how many of those people actually own such knives, or if they’re the same as people who will heatedly argue and debate performance characteristics of cars they can’t afford and have never actually driven.
I have a few Japanese knives, one of which is by far the most expensive item in my kitchen aside from major appliances.
I see it as a beautiful art piece which I greatly enjoy owning and using, and also see as my having contributed to the continuation of a traditional craft.
The minute you recognize something as art, there’s literally no way to assign it a quantifiable “value” figure. There’s no such thing as “art points per dollar”.
At that point it’s just your own personal level of appreciation/enjoyment. Which can be worth a lot, or worth zero if such aspects aren’t things you care about.
>or bought a very expensive knife and now want to retroactively justify it
I highly doubt that’s the case. At least I hope nobody is that retarded; you can’t “justify” a purchase of artistic merit beyond “I like it”, nor should you feel the need to.

>>18182737
>I wonder if the people who do that annoying shit are bitter, have a inferiority complex or bought a very expensive knife and now want to retroactively justify it
You can probably just chalk it up to the same overly-dramatic contrarian screeching you’ll find in any /ck/ thread regarding kitchen tools/appliances/etc

>>18182985
>The minute you recognize something as art, there’s literally no way to assign it a quantifiable “value” figure
Yeah, even in econ we recognize that there isn't really a objective way to measure value - and certainly no universal way across individuals. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it, the anons who enjoy their knives seem happy with it. I certainly own things that don't make economic sense but I derive enjoyment from. I own a few ceramic bowls that I adore, but they were expensive compared to what you can get bowls for. Doesn't matter though, everyday I use them I enjoy them and that is worth their price multiple times over.
You basically can't make normative value statements about art anyways, so why bother trying.
>>18183006
Fair enough, it happens with a bunch of topics and is definitely not unique to knives, kek.

>>18182526
Retard
>>18182670
Based
>>18182720
Shoulda bought American. Shoulda bought BUCK

>>18182799
Where can I buy a knife like that?

>>18183251
Anon it has now become sad.

redpill me on preinfusion for espresso

>>18183308
Why do you need a redpill? Just try it... It takes an additional 10 seconds.

>>18182670
>>18183251
>>18183271
>continues to reply to himself
lmao, you think you're the only one who knows how to inspect element?

>>18183308
>>18183321
oops i posted that in the wrong thread

>>18183345
preinfusion makes for some shitty knife steel, that much I can tell you.

>>18183323
You're delusional buddy. Get over yourself. Post your knife

>>18183392
Nice try, buddy, but we all know that "(you)'s" don't come in all caps like in your fake screen edit.

>>18183323
why would I be doing that though? what effect are his posts having that I would want to samefag to achieve? Why would I throw away my self respect and behave like a pathetic loser in full view of God just for the sake of, what, making it look like someone else said my post was based?

the whole point of saying "based" is to give some satisfaction to the poster you're replying to. think about how pointless it is to samefag for this

>>18183411
Hey man, I know you're having fun and all, but can you keep it to knives. Maybe post your knife or ask a question about knives?

>>18183411
that's weird because on mine it's first letter capitalized

>buy cheap knife
>buy quick and easy knife sharpener
>sharpen cheap knife often without much need for care
>cheap knife performs great and can take abuse unlike delicate and frail japanese blades that have been folded a 10000 times
Checkmate

>>18183459
>have nice knives perfected for specific tasks
>no need to abuse any of them
>sharpen once in a blue moon
>have heirloom quality tools that bring you joy to use and own that last multiple lifetimes

Un-checkmated.

>>18183546
>sharpen once in a blue moon
that's no fun

>>18183559
I know. I still sharpen my knives that don't really need it because I like using my nice natural stones and having unnecessarily sharp kitchen knives.

>>18171589
Its to small for onions for my liking, I have it mainly for meat thats what I do anyway.

>>18183573
that looks pretty respectable for the price. maybe Germany isn't a total joke after all

surprised that you humored my request. you're a good bloke

>>18183411
Nice try with your "gotcha"... Post your knives , wristlet. Or just buy a Buck 120 and quit talking shit
>>18183434
>>18183436
>>18183439
Based

>>18183616
Well yeah I am actually really happy with it at that price point. I ll be buying the 22cm hopefully its the same quallity. I am kinda bored anyways.

don't suppose any of you anons know a quick way to get rich

>>18183650
Crime.

>>18183650
DRS GME

Woah. Katsuramuki is tough. The knife cuts like a dream, but my skills are a bit of a nightmare. Feels like I'm going to slice my thumbs off.

>>18184256
Figured it out a little better. Left hand only moves vegetable. Right hand moves knife back and forth.

Fun!

>>18184304
Carrots are way too hard as of now. Look how thin this lil slice is tho.

>>18184350
Is this the 8500 DKK knife? Fuck thats hot.

>>18183546
>unironically thinking you need more than one knife to cut vegetable or meat
>unironically calling maintenance "abuse"
>unironically bragging about not using a knife enough to dull it
>unironically thinking your ungrateful shit head grandchildren aren't going to throw your knives out in the donation pile before your corpse is even cold
you guys are the IPA drinkers of the knife world, unironically never change.

>>18184359
Yes. Shigefusa kitaeji(pattern welded) usuba. Going to try to cut some potato tournes with it for dinner. If you get a good smooth cut if leaves the veggies shiny, so they should be pretty cool.

>>18184382
Reread what I was responding to my dude.

>>18184405
>>18184382
>>18184359
>>18184350
>>18184304
>>18184256
>>18184114
>>18183952
>>18183650
If you need a 'special' knife at all you're a cooklet
I've had the same three knives for 5 years got it at a garage sale dont even know the brand. Dont care. Cuts like a knife..

>>18184430
You're kind of missing the point, but if you're happy with only using steak knives I'm happy for you as well. :)

>>18183546
>a fucking knife
>heirloom
holy shit youre gay. your kids are going to laugh when youre retarded ass leaves them some cheap 1000 dollar knife off MUH AMAZONN JAPAN

>>18184437
I believe any knife over 2-3 dollars is a waste. learn to cook, the fundamentals first. I used to cook with a rusty potato peeler in my dads shed

>>18184445
And I believe that a masterfully crafted tool that looks beautiful and functions even better is a form of art worth collecting. Different strokes, different folks. I don't see anything wrong with either way of thinking.

>>18184475
I had a shit life. I started to drink to be happy for once in my life, and I cant quit so I keep doing it. My dad used to beat me when he wa s drunk. He used to play "helicopter" with me. It was where hed grab my dog by its back legs and start spinning around making helicopter noises, and then throw it across the room telling me to "go fetch the helicopter". Sometimes it landed on the couch other times its head slammed into the wall. It went deaf and blind in an eye before dying probably of brain damage

>>18167577
need a new knife set. my current set is some shit cuisine art set and i just store them in a drawer. i really want some sort of block to put them in instead of the drawer method. i really just need a chefs knife, fillet knife, pairing knife, serrated knife, and a honing rod. bonus if steak knives but i can always buy those seperately.
not looking to spend a shit ton so please be easy on the wallet. lets say $150.

>>18183647
>>18183573
Thank you for your service.
Wanna cop now

>>18184439
Sorry you didn’t have a dad, anon.

>>18184507
Just buy an empty block second-hand or a magnetic knife holder, a good whetstone and learn to keep your cheap knives sharp. With that budget for a whole knife block you're not going to have much of an upgrade, at least not one big enough to justify spending $150. Then upgrade if you're ready to splurge some more. Though people here will always recommend you to buy knives you need separately instead of a full knife set, which is full of compromises and maybe shit you don't need/want.

>>18184430
>spamming this same shit in every knife thread
Anon if you want to insist upon surviving only what you can hunt/catch on your own, more power to you. Doesn’t make people who use grocery stores foodlets.

>>18184507
buy an empty block that has sorta sensible holes in it then gradually acquire knives that fit the holes. avoid ones with lots of little holes, aim for large and medium-size holes, ideally one or two very big holes for a cleaver or nakiri

is this the most rational strategy? no, it's almost certainly wasteful because you're starting from the wrong end of things. but you will end up with one hell of a counter ornament

>>18184688
how should i do it then? mounting a magnetic knife holder is a no go because im a rent cuck. thats why i wanted a set with a block

>>18184691
With this.

>>18184691
Or this.

>>18184691
There are magnetic knife blocks meant to be put on your countertop, too. Usually look like vertically placed cutting boards, only magnetic.

>>18184691
buy your knives one at a time. store them in the boxes they come in for now (if they come in a box). or leave it out loose on your cutting board. maybe eventually you'll come up with a better solution but don't let storage considerations dictate what knife you start with

start by buying either a 210 or 240 chef knife/gyuto, depending on how comfortable you are with big knives. try to also acquire a second cheapo knife for chopping anything that might fuck up the edge due to being too crispy/hard/whatever—so when you're cutting e.g. jerky you're not using your nicest knife.

buy a 1000ish grit stone (800 or 1200 is ok too) and ideally also a strop with some green compound. it doesn't need to be an expensive one, mine's a piece of pig suede I glued to a thin piece of plywood and it works.

add on a cheap paring knife like a $5 victorinox. now don't buy anything else until you are unhappy with how those three knives perform for you and have some particular use in mind.

if you slice hard bread, get a bread knife

I'm sure there are ways to fit all that under 150. make sure you buy the sharpening stone, it's not optional. you don't need a sink bridge or a nagura or a guide or a big mechanical system or a lapping plate, just buy the stone set it on a wet rag on your counter and boom, now you can sharpen much better than if you didn't have a stone

another thing you could do is start from a cheap chef knife like an IKEA or Fibrox, then if you want to upgrade later that can become your beater

tldr don't buy a set

>>18182799
>yikes

will you freaks please stop calling knives art

I have a $500 knife. It's great. It's a really lovely piece of craft. But it's not fucking art, man. Your knife is not in the company of King Lear, it's not as beautiful as a fresco of Fra Angelico, it's not equal to one couplet of Pope's, it's not even one hundredth of a Bruce Springsteen song

and really, I am fond of my knife. it's a very very fine thing, and a superb example of workmanship. you might even say it's a product of the workman's art. but the knife itself is not Art. come on, man

>>18185085
>zoom and enhance

>>18185097
Some people literally shit on a wall and are allowed to call it art. I avoid using the term altogether as it has been bastardized to hell and back.
>will you freaks please stop calling knives art
If "art" is still somehow considered a measurement of skill, craftmanship and passion, handmade Japanese knives are a hundred times more worthy of being called art than the shit modern museums put on display nowadays. Funded by the taxpayer of course.

>>18185097
>I have a $500 knife
Please share pics
Otherwise, your post sounds like silly “As an X myself, don’t believe other X”
Almost as silly as your comparing modern craft art to classical ubiquitous classical art.
>”I have a $500 vase. It’s a lovely piece of craft. But it’s not fucking art, man. This vase isn’t in the presence of the original writings of Confucius. It’s the modern Ming Dynasty, man!”

>>18185097
Your art paintings can't do shit, but stir up and explore the deepest notions of beauty and humanity. Atleast my kato and shig knives can cut shit real nice. Functionality combined with beauty/high level craftsmanship has its place in the realm of art.

>>18185139
>If "art" is still somehow considered a measurement of skill,
when referring to "one's art", yes, when speaking of "art" in the high sense, no
>craftmanship
same as above
>and passion,
no, this word has nothing to do with art. in your degenerate modern tongue you're searching for the idea of Spirit, a different thing—having the right words would help you discriminate better between things which are and are not art

>>18185143
I'm tired of you fags not believing me when I say I have an expensive knife. and it's always at night when the lighting is shit. is it really that hard to believe lol

besides if I post mine the Shig man will just one up me with his superior knives which cost even more

>>18185175
>Your art paintings can't do shit, but stir up and explore the deepest notions of beauty and humanity
aha that's so utterly meaningless. you sound like a bureaucrat expressing his deep appreciation for the struggles of oppressed peoples including people of colour and lgbtq+, and the urgent necessity of allyship and creating a safe environment, etc. mouthing the words because you don't actually know what art is, just that educated people are supposed to have a "deep" appreciation for it.

>>18185198
Let me know when your paintings can slice an onion is all I'm saying.

Also on a side note I'm happy for anyone who also shares an appreciation for a nice knife. I post about them when I get them, or if the discussion goes that way, but I try not to blatantly brag about them. I'm the only person on here with shigs, I think, so I don't want to be too much of an asshole. Unless someone asks me to post my knives, or my jnats then it's fair game.

>>18185238
>Let me know when your paintings can slice an onion is all I'm saying.
I like this attitude a lot more. When you are like this it's impossible for me to hate you. Autistic maybe, philistine probably, but coming by it honestly, without an ounce of false humility either. But I do think you're wrong

>>18185085
>>18182902
>>18182803
Ok fine I'll polish up the edge and post another picture tomorrow, I'm kinda drunk at the moment and just got home but message received loud and clear

>>18182900
>amazon reviews
This reminds me of the amazon review of some stainless steel pan where they bitched about mineral deposits from boiling water, anyone who chooses a knife from amazon reviews deserves cutco at best

>>18185257
Well then go ahead and elaborate. I understand that it's quite the subject to broach, but it is an interesting discussion.

I'll come at you by saying that both the katana(go ahead and laugh, but I'm serious) as a traditional knife/blade, and the modern mastersmith knife/sword making both attain the status of being an art. Here is a modern american mastersmith's sword as a prime example.

>>18182799
Fuck that's janked up buddy

>>18185273
>bitched about mineral deposits from boiling water
I want to read that so bad

>>18185273
>anyone who chooses a knife from amazon reviews deserves cutco at best
You understand that many companies use Amazon for a storefront, yes? Especially if they’re smaller companies?
Because it makes economic/logistical sense?

>>18185198
>lol omg silly people asking for any proof of my claims that don’t match my attitude
>allow me to pontificate further
lol no.

>>18185280
sorry I was going to reply but in thinking about it I got to reading some old favourite poems that I haven't looked at in a while. I've just now finished reading out Spenser's Epithalamion, a very sweet and lovely poem, but actually I think I was looking for his Prothalamion and got them mixed up as I often do, anyway as I said I've just finished reading this longish poem and now all the drinks I've had tonight are suddenly putting me quite to sleep. I also saved some J. M. W. Turner paintings to my phone which I guess I was going to post, and this movie scene https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKTVHgcdR9Y

I don't remember the argument I was going to make. I guess that these things are worth more than swords. Anyway I'm struggling not to fall asleep so this will have to do, but I didn't want to leave it and have you think I just hadn't bothered to reply, which would have been a bit rude

can somone spoonfeed me a few good cheapish knives to get started with? bonus if it has a cool aesthetic

>>18185825
Dalstrong. Cheap and Chinese but works... Appearently

>>18185825
Depends what you mean cheap, KAI wasabi line, Boker cottage line.

>>18185584
>butthurt defensive non sequitur
t. idiot who chose a knife from amazon reviews

>>18186693
>buzzwords from someone who wanted to make a school debate team but wasn’t smart enough
Explains your illiteracy.

>>18186703
>retard who tried "this new dropshipping thing" for "passive income" and lost a bunch of money tries to make himself feel better by insulting the intelligence of the people who declined to become his customer

>>18186026
>Cheap
You mean less expensive or poorly-made?
>Chinese
So is whatever you just posted from. Chinese factories will build whatever you want to whatever quality standard you want.

>>18186708
Lol holy fuck now I know you’re being satirical.
Congrats on making me respond.

>>18185825
Mercer Cutlery
>>18186026
Resold bottom of the barrel aliexpress trash

>>18185825
At the very least read >>18171979 , then tell s what type of knife you are looking for, what you mean by cheap-ish (budget), what you expect from it and how often/how you will maintain it.

>>18187334
i know what knives i need its more what brand. it can be chineseum but i want decent chineseum. just 8" or 10" chef knife and pairing knife

>>18187358
Stainless or carbon steel?
Will you take care of it and sharpen it?
What's the budget?
How hard do you want the steel to be?
There isn't really one answer where you can just say "look into brand X and whatever knife they have is good" I think. But the Böker Cottage in >>18183573 >>18171429 looks interesting. Nothing interesting to say about the steel, it's your average carbon steel, but the pricing seems fair.

>>18187379
>Stainless or carbon steel?
uhhhhhh the better one?
>Will you take care of it and sharpen it?
ill wash it and use the rod
>What's the budget?
$50-100 for both
>How hard do you want the steel to be?
i dont know? 1000 times folded steel?

>>18187414
carbon steel can typically get sharper, but also can rust
stainless is better for utilitarian knives

>>18187445
stainless then

>>18187414
Here you go. Cheapest knife I could find its folded so many times that you cant see it in the jpg.

>>18187505
based. the blade that can cut into the shadow realm

>>18185666
I know you were a little sleepy and probably a little weepy as well, so let me remind you that your initial stance was that knives should not be called art.

It was never a discussion of worth, which I will concede that of course a higher art like architecture produces useful objects of more value and usually greater beauty than a knife. Even so, art can and is manifested in the form of a cutting blade.

Isn't sculpture considered a fine art?

>>18187474
Maybe wait for what other anons think, but you could consider a misen chefs's knife - 65$ which leaves room for a sharpening stone and a paring knife. 100$ is not that much money for 2 knives and a sharpening stone.
The misen has you AUS10 steel, which is quite decent at that price. It doesn't have a full bolster, which is good for you, and it looks okay. Unassuming maybe, but not bad in any way. Add a 20$ cheap synthetic whetstone to that, one side must be in the 800-1200 range, the other can either be over 1200 if you want to be able to do polishing, or sub 800 if you want to be able to do fixing if you ever chip your knife.
That's 85$ now, so we have 15$ left for a paring knife, cutting it close. If you do not already have a way so store your knives properly (knife block, magnetic bar or something else), you will either have to get that or keep them in the boxes they came in. No "throw it into the utensil drawer" with these. I'll assume you either have one or go the "keep it in the box" route, because our budget is so limited. Honestly just search online on a site you like for paring knife, set the upper cost limit to 15$, then look what's left. None of these will be outstanding, but they will get the job done. If it's from a brand you recognize, probably better than the chink shit. Depending on if you mind the cheap look and plastic handle, victorinox probably has some good stuff in that price segment.

>>18187543
thank you anon

>>18187543
Jesus, I didn’t ask for an essay you autistic cunt.

>>18187379
>Stainless or carbon steel?
>How hard do you want the steel to be?
These things are a bit silly to ask someone who clearly says “to get started”.

>>18187090
>Resold bottom of the barrel aliexpress trash
Wow, that will surprise a lot of people.
Do you mind linking any of the unbranded Ali knives that they're reselling?

>>18187586
Fair point on the hardness question, but I don't like the idea that anyone new automatically needs to get stainless, so I like to ask if they would consider carbon steel and the associated maintenance. Sure stainless is less work, but it's not like carbon steel is some highly complex skillset that a beginner can't learn by reading for a few minutes.

>>18187576
rude. plus you arent me you fucking schizo.

>>18187514
>writing a meaningful response
>to someone who qualified his statement with “I have a $500 knife” and immediately spun a tale of why he won’t a photo of it while simultaneously saying he’s tired of not being believed
You seem like a decent person, anon, but it’s best not to engage larping faggots as it only encourages the behavior.

I have a wusthof and a cheap manual pull sharpener. My knives aren’t very sharp. Pls halp.

>>18187656
The wusthof is probably fine, the pull sharpener is the issue.
Read >>18171985 , then follow the same advice in >>18187543 regarding a sharpening stone. If you have more money to spend, you can look into mid market or high end stones too, but a cheap synthetic one is enough to get you started and last a while.

>>18187597
>but I don't like the idea that anyone new automatically needs to get stainless
In our modern world, there’s basically 2 sorts of carbon steel knives.
1- brandless knives you find for $5-$20 in the cookware section at an Asian grocery store, made as cheaply as possible, and the $20 one being a massive cleaver and a good deal because it’s so fucking heavy that it’s probably worth $10 in scrap alone
2- relatively pricey knives made/sold mostly for continuation a traditional material except in a few specialized circumstances

Sure there’s some moderately priced “redneck knives” (for lack of a better term) based on hunting/combat designs between the two which are good for camping and whatnot, but there are modern stainless alloys that are close enough to the sharpening and edge retention of carbon that in a kitchen setting, choosing the latter is sort of like choosing a handmade knife. It’s something you do for an appreciation of tradition moreso than functional advantage.
At least that’s my personal take. Feel free to call me a faggot.

This is the best knife I've owned
I love the weight of it

>>18187514
you are doing the most repulsive thing when you treat the ideas of art and ornament as interchangeable. "A sculpture can be art, yes? Well, this knife has sculpted features ornamenting it, so..."

You do this because you think art means anything which is made beautiful by means of fine craft and good aesthetic judgment. In this view there is no difference in kind between 'wall art' and art proper—I mean, they're both paintings, right? And they both, uh, elicit emotion or feeling, and you know, they are nice to look at, and took skill to make, so... art. art just means nice things with ornamental features

in a barbarous culture this view of art might be forgivable, but to live in a civilized country in 2022 and not to know that our conception of art has been refined and changed by the enormous outpouring of the Spirit which has happened in poetry and sculpture and painting and music and so on—not to know that these grand traditions point to some immortal thing which is not merely ornament, and that this something has become to us so important that we no longer speak of art without implying its presence—this is intolerable. you are a wrecker, a leveller—your inordinate love for one lesser good, your desire to place it among goods which are naturally greater, makes you an enemy of the whole natural order, an enemy of the Good itself

you should not only stop doing it, you should also apologize

>>18187711
Fuck off, larping shitcunt.

>>18187699
>Feel free to call me a faggot.
Not going to do that anon and your argument seems reasonable. It's just that if you find a carbon steel knife that does have similar performance to stainless, but is cheaper (while requiring the maintentnance etc), then it would be silly not to consider it I guess. There is almost always a stainless alternative with similar performance, but not always for the same price. Then again, I say all that, yet all the knives I can think of that I would suggest or recommend to a person who is new to it are all stainless.

>>18167577
Is this combo any good?
Better for same price?
It's about 100 euro for combo
Thinking about getting it

>>18187718
lol do you really still think I'm lying

>>18187711
Are you still that larping faggot who didnt post your 500 dollar knife?
Knifes can be art, end of story you can now go back to plebbit faggot.

>>18187591
The Shogun Series for Dalstrong
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/B59FA71A-1E62-4CBF-93CE-94CF823190C5
Is almost certainly made by the same factory that does this Keemake el cheapo set
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832773547919.html
Same handle design, same blade design with the same pattern of fake hammering, and the same blade material.

If you're going Chinese there are better avenues.

ªªªªª¶¯.¯¯.¯.¯.¯~`

>>18187711
Bad faith, fart sniffing argument that shows how far your head is up your own ass. It's more than clear to everyone, except you, how little you actually know.

>>18187798
*****/.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.フ

>>18187823
*****/.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.フ

>>18187796
Interesting; I’d be curious to know what the real story behind it is, considering Dalstrong is technically a Canadian company
It’s either
>Dalstrong found a knife already being made by a Chinese factory, and ordered it with minor changes and rebranding
>Dalstrong designed the knife and defined the manufacturing specs, contracted a factory to manufacture, and gave contract allowance for them to manufacture “off-brand” versions
The latter lets you get your stuff manufactured at a discount, and is pretty much a no-brainer if you’re a company that only plans on selling in western markets.

is this a good starter whetstone?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088DRNG39

>>18167577
Is this even japan knife? I see they are cheap

>>18187872
It will do, but is chinese crap. I reccomend getting a shapton ceramic 1500 or a 1000. Splash and go, very high quality, dishes slowly.

>>18187901
Never heard of them; just checked out their site.
I think it’s a case of “what they don’t say” being more important than what they say.
If they were made in Japan, the site would go out of its way to let you know “MADE IN JAPAN”
But their site only says “Made of Japanese steel”, which all but guarantees the knife itself is made in a Chinese factory.

>>18187816
"bad faith" lmfao. what are you talking about?

>>18187913
>but is chinese crap
Realistically, how much do you think that matters when it comes to synthetic stones?

>>18187901
the drawn-on cladding line that looks like an old Microsoft Word "WordArt" gradient effect is how you know this is a quality japanese product

>>18187961
A lot. The abrasive consistency and the binder are much higher quality on a better stone. The feedback and feel of the stone is a lot nicer as well.

They'll both get the job done, but a good stone will perform better, work faster, and be more enjoyable to use.

>>18187711
I'm happy for you or I'm sorry that happened

>>18187699
define "relatively pricey" because it seems like you're doing that 4chan thing where if a thing isn't a $5 piece of shit then it might as well be $14,000 even if it really only cost $10

>>18187764
get one of these and a $5 victorinox paring knife. and spend a little more to buy a decent sharpening stone too, you should be getting one anyway

https://karasu-knives.com/products/ama-890-06-fa210
I have this with a different handle, it's not the best steel but the grind makes it worth it (in my humble opinion)

https://www.messerspezialist.de/boeker-cottage-craft-kochmesser.html
this one's much cheaper, don't know a single thing about it except some other anon likes his and says it's a good deal.

https://www.japaneseknives.eu/a-65289768/chef-s-knives-gyuto/muneishi-aogami-ss-clad-wa-gyuto-chef-s-knife-210-mm-kuroichi/#description
this looks ok

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/tanuki-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/
bit more expensive but I trust this man's stock, almost certain to be a good knife

don't know euro vendors well enough to make recommendations, maybe another anon will know a better deal on a chef knife somewhere. but you should definitely spend almost all your budget on a good chef knife

is the misen 3 piece a good value?

>>18188544
how are people still getting shilled on m*sen when adblock exists?

>>18188544
I hate to admit this, but if it's AUS-10 as they say it might not be the worst deal around. no idea how the Chinese are heat treating them but that's at least a good steel at that price point. chef knife seems to cut how you'd expect in videos. I see some complaints about fit and finish but given the price and performance you'd expect to see some sacrifice there. if the sharp corners bother you, use some sandpaper, you'll have it fixed in five minutes. I want to find fault with it, but unless the reviewers were all given a different knife than what you can buy, or they lied about what steel it is, or the Chinese are totally botching the heat treatment (entirely possible) it seems like a competitively-priced knife.

of course you should always buy superior japanese, however...

>>18188409
Anon those seem like decent knives, but 3/4 are over his budget (without the sharpening stone and paring knife included) and the 4th is a carbon steel knife.

>>18188775
You can have the best steel and heat treat in the world and the knife can still suck.

Shopping for knives by steel type and HRC is like shopping for audio equipment based on the watts printed on the box.

>>18188122
>define "relatively pricey"
One thing being discussed is pricey relative to the other thing being discussed. I’m not sure what other meanings it would have.

>>18188828
that's why it wasn't my only criterion, I also looked at reviews where people cut, and it appeared to cut ok

>>18187837
You tryna show me up son?
***************//.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.フ

>>18188822
actually all four of them are carbon steel

and they're only a smidgeon over budget. there's almost nothing good at all in europe within his budget

>>18189060
All handle, no edge.
Observe:
*****/.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.¯.フ
Any more and it may chip, you are playing with fire.

>>18188932
Ok, but your post was implicitly comparing carbon knives to stainless, so which stainless knives (what price) are these category 2 carbon knives "relatively pricey" next to?

>>18188983
"Appeared to cut ok" doesn't say much if you don't know the background

A properly sharpened shit knife will still cut better than an unsharpened good knife, and people who buy a new knife and are impressed that it can cut are often completely ignorant about knives altogether

I don't think misen is targeting knowledgeable buyers either

>>18189115
>"Appeared to cut ok" doesn't say much if you don't know the background
I'm not sure what your objection is. I was referring to the grind not the edge sharpness, and I wasn't putting any stock in what they said about how it cut, I was just judging the footage.

my superior Nippon knife

>>18186711
Poorly made and k
>>18187090
>>18187796
Truth pilled
>>18187859
Nerd

>>18187576
LOL

>>18189687
>>18189687
>>18189687