/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>17962322
>Opened.

my grandma makes everything best, so also knives

>>17962322
there isn't a "best" knife

>>17962322
Wusthof

>>17963268

Where's shiganon when you need him?

You, you sharpen your own knives and that's the only factor that matters

>>17963268
that post looks highly suspect. prove right now that you're not a gpt-3 bot

>>17962322
Those Benchmade kitchen knives are actually really nice, but if you're willing to throw that much money at a single knife you could buy pretty much anything.

Cutco

>>17962322

>>17962322
test

>>17962322
Depends wot u want m8. Vic fibrox is a meme but a good meme, wustof are tanks and work good, japanese knives look different and are more delicate but thinner so less slicing resistance plus harder steel= sharper knife. I might get a misono swedish carbon or fujiwara fkh to plit the difference since I like the western look and handle but the thinness and steel of japanese knife. Pluse they are pretty cheap even compared to wustof.

>>17964616
>I might get a misono swedish carbon or fujiwara fkh to plit the difference since I like the western look and handle but the thinness and steel of japanese knife
if you want to start with japanese knives, get a Takamura R2
VG10 would be probably safer if you're worried about breaking it though

I've used a selection of knives from German and Japanese brands and I liked my Shun Classic chef's knife enough to slowly complete a Shun Classic set. It just has the best balance imho, and while I'm sure the steel isn't the most advanced it holds a good edge for a long time. I think the reason why it cuts so well is because the blade is very thin. It doesn't act like a wedge like Western knives so it just very cleanly slices through shit.

>>17965024
There are japanese knives without the dumb handles? This one looks very nice.

>>17965024
I'll check it out cause that looks sick. I have some exp with japanese knives my bro has a moritaka nakiri and a whatever hamono zdp189 bunks and I have Fuji moto petty. Thx bud. Hows the toughness of r2?

>>17965041
>There are japanese knives without the dumb handles?
they make knives with japanese, western or hybrid handles
>>17965049
>Hows the toughness of r2?
they're about 62 HRC, which makes them prone to chipping if used with hard foods
but they hold the edge for months with daily domestic use
my Takamura has been unsharpened for 9 months and is still as good as the first day
I also have a Yu Kurosaki in R2 but I sharpen it every ~6 months or so... heat treatment makes a big difference on hardness

>>17965127
V nice. I'm fighting the urge to consume right now. I'll def check those out in the future as I have to pay for other expenses soon

I've been using these for over a year now. I have a regular kitchen knife, a filet knife, and a vegetable knife. Incredibly durable, sharp, and require sharpening maybe twice a year. One of the best gifts I've received for the kitchen to this day. Overall rating, 5/7 would recommend.

I hate knifefags so goddamn much it's insane...

>>17962322
Faberware

>>17965041
>dumb handles
it's just a round piece of wood with a ferrule—very practical. why is that dumb?

>>17965904
ergonomics

>>17965980
Many people find them more ergonomic if you're using a pinch grip. I dont find much a difference besides balance really.

Anyone here ever own any knives made of SG2 steel? Thinking of getting a Shun Kaji and wanted to know what people think

>>17965980
you are definitely holding your knife wrong

jap handles are nice because they are lighter which allows the weight balance to be a bit forward for easier chopping

>>17965469

>>17962322
For cheap German/Western knife: Victorinox
For cheap Japanese knife: Tojiro
For high end German/Western: Messermeister
For high end Japanese: Aritsugu or Yoshihiro

Everything else like Shun, Miyabi, Wüsthof, Zwilling, etc, is shit.

IKEA

>>17965469
>filename(1).jpg
>line drawing in .jpg format
><256x256 res
>frog image
>off topic reply
Get fucked retard.

>>17962322
Probably kramer?

>>17966692
What about paudin?

>>17966780
Did I stutter? Everything else is shit.

>>17966787
that's just untrue though, I've used many commercial grade brands of knives at work and there's nothing special about victorinox over other brands, especially not since they raised prices a while ago

>>17966821
Sunk cost fallacy. You wasted your money on shit so now you delude yourself into thinking it's all right.

>>17965024
stainless is for very low IQ who don't know what sharp is, and very high IQ who have exceptional skills

if you're a NPC like me you should get garbon because it's easier to maintain

>>17966787
Alright got a victorinox 10" chef for $36. Also this AccuSharp sharpener since I don't really like the stones I got. Hope itcs not a meme

>>17966869
>it's easier to maintain
you could have said literally any other thing but you choose to be retarded
the only downside of carbon steel is that it requires more maintenance
>better edge
>better retention
>easier to sharpen
but
>rusts
I love carbon, but would not recommend to someone who's not used to clean and dry it after cutting

>>17962322
Japanese

>>17966869
Stainless is what professional kitchens use because they don't want to baby their knives

Chef is dogshit, i.got a cheap ass stainless caidao with a horrible plastic handle and it's amazing. Never been a fan of any kitchen tool until I started using that caidao.

>>17966724
yeah was gonna say kramer, but they became meme and a hand made one is like 10s of thousands of dollars.
probably some 8th gen japanese old man that noones heard of and is driven by honor.

>>17966692
>Everything else like Shun, Miyabi, Wüsthof, Zwilling, etc, is shit.
I have a Shun I got as a gift. While the look isn't really to my taste it does cut very well for the price. the grind is nice and thin behind the edge.

>>17967983
stainless is what pro kitchens use because in many places it's required by their restaurant safety regulations, and because the average person doesn't understand the difference other than one rusts and one doesn't

>>17965469
Just think about something else you'll be ok

>>17966869
I've this in a 150 petty, for carbon it's very low maintenance, it's great.

I've used a lot of knives, fibrox, globals, shitty weekly replacement knives in a shithole big box resto, and i've moved into the stupid weebshit knives stage.
dont waste your time with globals, shuns, miyabi, any of those intermediate priced brands, they suck
bang for your buck, get a fibrox and learn to sharpen
once you have some experience under your belt and want something fancier, go shell out and buy a jap knife made with aogami super if you care for carbon, or sg2/r2 for stainless
you have to get used to a lighter and more fragile blade with the japanese ones, but the super thin grinds and cartoonish sharpness you can get is more than worth it if you have a reason you need it
currently my knife bag is a 240 sg2 gyuto, which i use for 90% of everything, a henckels vegetable cleaver which is for the tougher stuff that could cause issues for the gyuto, and a tojiro bread knife.

>>17968319
Picrel, most of my shit

>>17967965
but the edge retention isn't better, and washing your knife isn't maintenance it's washing your knife. do you consider wiping your ass after you shit "maintenance"?

>>17967983
"it's what the pros use" is not the endorsement you think it is. see: literally any subject

>>17965469
What are you gonna do, stab me ?

>>17968336
how's the tadafusa hocho kobo? I've wondered about those ones, they look cool

>>17967965
they are easier to maintain because they're easier to sharpen. I don't consider keeping my knife dry difficult. not wiping the knife, even with stainless, means that it's more difficult to clean because things dry and get stuck on

If you aren’t spending time in your kitchen with your hand wrapped around Guy Fieri’s Big Stick, you don’t know shit about cooking.

i would like a cool knoife

>>17962322
Dunno but I'm happy with mine. Big knife is SG2 powder steel, vegetable one is A10, easy to maintain and both cut like a dream

last time i asked this question most of the thread told me it was this one

>>17968351
>but the edge retention isn't better
in my case it is
aogami #2, 62 HRC, compared to SG2, 62 HRC, retains its edge much longer
>washing your knife isn't maintenance it's washing your knife
you don't see many people cooking I guess
almost nobody wipes their knives after using them
damn, most people simply put them in the dishwasher and let them there

>>17966869
How you like the swedish carbon bro? Been looking at them because their shape kind of reminds me of a k-sab but without the full bolster and better quality. Just a classic looking knife

>>17969020
best knife for under 75 bucks no lie

>>17968351
if my asshole started getting permanent damage after taking a shit if I didn't wipe until it started bleeding, I would consider it maintenance

>>17969020
That's a pretty solid price/quality recommendation.

>>17969020

Yes Victorinox chef knife is a buy it for life item. You buy it once and you will have it all your life.

I bought some rosewood handle knives when I was 17 and I am 44 now and they are still great knives.

>>17969020
Pretty good desu. I have the 10" version because it was cheaper when I bought it and it works well. Not as sharp or nice looking as a j knife but it's nice to have something that you can beat on and not worry about.

>>17969924
It ended my life as a knife hobbyist. Sometimes if I'm really bored I look at knife shop websites or youtube videos hoping I can experience upgrade-itis again, like I did for years. But all I feel is indifference. Like, I can see there are some finely crafted knives out there, and while I can still "talk knives" with the neckbeardiest of the neckbeards if the need arose, all I feel when I see a fancy knife now is the same feeling I get when I see some finely crafted gear from a hobby I have no interest in. Like an expensive gaming mouse or the latest remote controlled drone.

>>17962322
>Who makes the best chef knives?
You, if you put in the time and effort.

>>17970038
You are living the dream anon. You actually made it, and found something that works for you. You reached endgame anon, good job.

>>17962322
Chadam Ragusea

>>17970038
stopping before you get to Shigefusa is a crime. you can't just leave this world and be happy. once you're in, you're in

>looking for a kitchen knife set since I'm moving in with my gf
>everything is made in China overpriced garbage
guess I'm just going to steal steak knives from restaurants and use those for everything

All you need is it to be comfortable in the hand, stainless and have somewhat hard steel (HRC58 and above). And get a strop and a good whetstone and learn how to sharpen

>santoku knife

>>17967965
U dum az fuk bruh.

If you own a nice knife, use->wash->dry->putAway should be a natural routine.
Not letting it sit in a damn sink or whatever.

I have a Yoshikazu Tanaka and it's hard to imagine how any knife could be better, other than I don't like how carrots stick to it

>>17966692
>For cheap German/Western knife: Victorinox
this is what I bought, they're very good for the price

>>17968504
It's a nice knife, don't love santoku design in general and the steel isn't fantastic (compared to the sg2 I'm used to), feels like it loses its edge relatively quickly.
Got it as a gift and it's my at home knife, gets pretty much any home cooking job done easily, don't love a rounded handle vs octagonal, but it's totally workable
the line has become my new recommendation as a first japanese knife vs Tojiro at this point, it's very accessible for a home cook and will definitely perform better than most anything at the price point.

>>17972534
don't suppose I could trouble you for some spine and choil pictures

>>17966692
Victorinox are German?

>>17973008
german is a style

>>17973008
assuming you're not trolling and I'm not baiting, they're german style
>symmetric bevel
>bolster
>western handle
>backward balance point
>curved belly for chop motion
>thicker blade/sturdier
>softer steel
>can be abused without taking too much damage

Anyone have any experience with Chinese Mystery Cleavers?
Amazon is full of them and the style is pretty attractive to me. Curious if anyone has taken the plunge and found a good set/a good knife.

>>17973708
I bought one at a chinese grocery a long time ago and it wasn't good. I don't mean like it wasn't up to my exacting knife autist standards, I mean it was objectively terrible, barely fit for purpose. this being /neet/ I'm sure there will be a lot of defenders though

>>17969020
if you're not going to spend 300+++ dollar thats what i'd buy. i have two and use them daily.

>>17973008
>>17973606
>>17973615
But also Victorinox is a Swiss company which is BASICALLY German.

>>17965980
They are extremely convenient with pinch grip (that is the grip), they make it stronger and more convenient and secure.
When the time has come when I had to say "that's enough" and choose a personal knife (so my family would stop constantly destroying _all_ knives in their vicinity) then the handle on my santoku was the deciding factor. Otherwise it's a wash really.

>>17970038
Awesome man thanks

>>17973741
you can get some very nice knives for $299 that easily outperform the v'nox

>>17969020
https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-Company-7045-79-8/dp/B000FKJNO4
I'm a fan of this one myself.
Cheap for good carbon steel and light with a less tall blade.
The main issue I could say, is that the spine is fairly thick.

I recently got a Mikoto Kurasaki SG-2 gyoto for 210 euros. I also have a 120 euro brandless supposed-to-be-aus10-but-the-sticker-said-VG10 "Kazoku" home brand imported by the seller gyuto. Honestly I didn't notice much difference in cutting performance. Both sharp as fuck. Slightly worse looking handle finish on the cheaper one. Bought from meesterslijpers.nl

I recommend the cheap one as the Takemura R2 is always out of stock.

>>17975095
>I recently got a Mikoto Kurasaki SG-2 gyoto for 210 euros
based. the grind on those looks pretty good

>>17962322
Joe mum

>>17973754
That's hilariously terrible, even for /ck/. Swiss knives mog everything apart from WMF and Global. And picrel.

>>17962322
price? Victorinox
durability? wusthof
t. line cook

>>17970573
i wanna see a cook bring a ragusea knife in so i can throw it in the fryer and give him a better knife desu

bought this guy about 18 months ago and it kept it's edge pretty well the whole time. Only just sharpened it and it cuts like new and it didn't get that "sharpened" look some knives get, if that makes sense. Really heavy too so it feel great. Would recommend
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I3XGRE4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

>>17962322
Everything except the Japanese ones.

I have had great experiences with Mercer Culinary knives: not outrageous exquisite pieces to inspire jealosy with house guests, but affordable good knives that are mid market and are aimed at restaurant supply. Are they literally the best? no but I get a pretty gud knife without breaking out the benjamins. And honestly mid range knives that don't feel shitty are probably the best knives because you are not over paying for a name, and I can't expect anons to pay over a hundred for a knife.

I do own a couple higher end knives like Thiers Issard elephant sabatiers, but I am not familiar if they hold up (for their price) compared to other high end sabatiers. But can attest I like muh elephants.

Japanese knives are a meme, they're okay but overpriced because "MOLTEN STEEL FOLDED 1 BILLION TIMES YOU ARE SAMURAI NOW"
Chinese knives are poorly made shit
German and American are good

>>17962322
Solingen

>>17962322
It's less of what maker and more of what properties you want in your chef's knives. I like a nice thin blade that tapers to a substantial spine, scalloped faces to make food release easily, and a comfortable handle. As such, I find myself with a good Wusthof Hollow-Edge Santoku knife.

>>17974518
That shape is terrible for a chef's knife. It would be nearly impossible to get a good quick chop going with a blade like that.

>>17977342
I find that knives that are intended for food service tend to be the most reliable and affordable knives you can hope to buy.

>>17975095
>Mikoto Kurasaki SG-2
not sure if trolling or retarded, but it's Makoto Kurosaki
anyway, unlike his brother, Makoto is not a blacksmith
he only makes the handles and outsources the blades
paying so much for a mass-produced knife is a scam to me
>I didn't notice much difference in cutting performance
main difference between good and bad knife is edge retention

>>17977433
I can tell you from experience that's not true, but I'm curious what makes you think that way?

>>17977342
>are aimed at restaurant supply
everything aimed at professional kitchens is designed to be cheap and able to take a beating
they will do the job, but that doesn't mean they're any good

>>17977578
> not sure if trolling or retarded,
trolling
> Makoto is not a blacksmith
>he only makes the handles
wrong, he is a sharpener first and foremost, which is why his blades have such a nice shape
>mass-produced knife
he sources his knives from Takefu Knife Village blacksmiths
>main difference between good and bad knife is edge retention
totally false lol

not sure if trolling or retarded

>>17973708
For chinese cleavers get a CCK. Everything else sucks.

>>17977718
hes talking about rolling chop I think which would be difficult to perform using this blade as it's not as curved as most chef knives.

>>17978355
There's a moderate curve on the tip of the blade. So you can get a decent roll enough to dice some parsley or green onions fast. I use push cuts myself normally, so it could be totally flat and it'd work fine.
>>17974518
For total accuracy I did measure the spine of the knife.
Its about 2mm.

>>17977852
They're rather huge, aren't they?
Even the 'small cleaver' model they have is >8 inches with that heavy profile.
I was looking at some Daovua knives as they seemed almost perfect for what I was looking for, but reviews all said the steel was shit and the build was bad.

Right now I'm using some no-name vegetable cleaver I found at a thrift store and thought looked interesting. No info other than its Taiwanese.
6.5" long, 2.5" tall, 1mm stamped stainless, can get pretty sharp on a stone. Trying and failing to find something like that, but better.
Everything is either way larger and heavier or not tall enough in the blade.

>>17977825
>not sure if trolling or retarded
just retarded and I like to larp about things I know little about
>he is a sharpener first and foremost, which is why his blades have such a nice shape
but I really don't see how this impacts on the quality of the product
in my experience, the most important thing in a knife is the heat treatment, and if he doesn't make its blades itself, I can't trust him by his reputation

>>17978458
CCK looks big but is very lightweight.

This is as a good a thread as any to ask. I got a whetstone about 4 months ago and it's been great so far, but today I found that I've been a bit uneven when sharpening so I the stone has a small dip on one side. How can I correct this? Will sand paper work?

>>17979685
knife nerds can't answer this question because they all have diamond plates to do this.

I'm sure there's a way though. just find something flat and really hard where if you rub it against the stone you see more slurry from the stone than from the hard flat thing. I know that advice is probably shit, sorry. Maybe think about buying that lapping plate. there might be a cheaper alternative, I don't know

>>17980026
Knife nerds do know. You don't, bub. To be fair I do have a high precision diamond lapping plate that is incredibly useful.

>>17979685
Sandpaper does work. Use wet or dry with constant running water. A piece of float glass will be flat enough if you're just doing knives.

>>17980056
post knife, faggot

>>17980367
Lol, which one? Santoku, gyuto, or nakiri?

>>17980425
let's start with the nakiri

>>17980430
Okay...

>>17980449
oh sh-shit I didn't realize it was you sh-sh-shig n-nigga p-please forgive me

>>17968969
what brands are center and right?

>>17980457
right is ogata, left idk who makes them but it's sold under a few brands including tsunehisa and haruyuki

>>17980455
I will consider it, although I am not in the mood. My mom chipped the knife I gave her cutting through chicken bones, and she told ms she wants it back soon.

Yes, I did tell her not to touch the edge to bones.

The complex grind is going to be a bitch to preserve.

>>17980513
horror

>>17980513
I remember the joy of my father using my knives to cut stuff on in order, a metal baking sheet and then a metal wire cooling rack. Same day.
Having family over can be such a joy.

>>17980449
That's a nice patina Anon.

my red aoto synthetic arrived from JNS. it's much thicker than I expected and it gives an ezpz kasumi finish in seconds. maksim is the fucking man

>>17981913
is it a real synthetic or one of those things made of ground up bits of natty stones?

>>17981915
no idea. he doesn't say on the website, which makes me think the former.

Anyone have experience with Dao Vua knives?
Says its made of leaf springs, which should be pretty good steel. But they're also Vietnamese, so I'm not sure of the quality.

>>17982105
reddit says they're overhyped pieces of shit, "the worst knife I've ever bought" etc, which makes me want one

>>17973708
Depends on what you are looking for. I have a Shibazi F-208, which is a traditional chinese cleaver, with a flat edge and a traditional handle, that doesn't cost much, though I hear lately they have gotten more expensive as more people hear about the brand.
I mainly got it because I wanted to try out a chinese cleaver (more specifically a cutting cleaver rather than a slicing or bone cleaver). It's my daily driver knife now, the one I reach for when I'm not thinking or need another knife for a specific job.
I probably wouldn't expect good steel with mystery cleavers, though they don't have to be horrible. I used a chinese mystery knifeset for multiple years that I had gotten for 20$ at the time (for 4 knifes) and I still have those knives, they still are fine and still are in my kitchen. So you can get lucky or you can get unlucky.
If budget is your main constraint the kiwi cleavers (which are thai style, so less tall) are cheap as fuck, like 5$ a piece and nice and sharp out of the box, but shit steel, so it loses its edge in a few uses. On the upside the blade is so thin that even a dull one still feels "okay" to most normies and it can be sharpened again on a stone or strop within 1-2 passes.

>>17980513
This is giving me flashbacks to spending an entire day to fix the horrible atrocities my family did to their knives when I visited them.

>>17982132
I'm not quite that contrarian, but a problem you get with Reddit is how exaggerative and whiny they get about stuff.
Especially because the buyer's culture you get on a site like that gets you people that are terrible with something, like a knife forum where the average user is terrible with knives, but buys extremely expensive products as show pieces and becomes very picky about 'what works' and 'whats bad'.
Anything beyond reports about whether the steel is low quality or the handle falls apart isn't super useful unless the user has some indication of being skilled in their post history.

>>17982132
Looked on there myself, and some guy acting like the idea of making a knife out of a leaf spring was a bad idea really came off as really ignorant.
He complained about the chance of lead, but no one is adding lead to a leaf spring alloy. It'd be more expensive than just using straight steel and would be very hard to make functional. Lead is not flexible nor strong.
I wouldn't trust the pipe knives from Dao Vua as those probably would have lead inside, but leaf spring steel shouldn't have that risk as much.

But other posts about poor quality blade geometry and inconsistent metal quality is more valid and does make them seem like less than desirable products.

>>17982196
fixing my family's never-sharpened-in-30-years Cutco knives was a lot of fun actually. and they were very impressed with the results, very appreciative. so I have good feelings thinking about that. whereas Shig anon's personal tragedy here makes me feel sharp pain

>>17982307
>fixing my family's never-sharpened-in-30-years Cutco knives was a lot of fun actually.
I can see that. I don't mind fixing or repairing dull knives, I do it for friends all the time, they always appreciate it a lot. In the case of my family they just had unholy chipping damage, think like 5 times as deep as that image. So I spent basically the entire day to fix just 2 small knives, because I had to grind so much of it away and I don't actually have real fixing stones for severe chipping.
They were appreciative though, so that was nice. I also haven't been over since, so I just have to hope they are taking better care of them now.
It would be a different story if it was my knife, but I have "burner" knives for friends who are over that I know I can't trust with the good ones. Did that once, never again.

It begins.

400 grit atoma. 10 Perpendicular strokes working my way down the blade then flip matching the convex grind.

>>17982628
Almost done. You can see how even my grinding is because I'm counting strokes and working from both sides evenly.

>>17982721
Okay. The grunt work is finished. Time for the fun part! Polishing and sharpening. Starting with 1500 grit shapton.

>>17982759
Pic.

>>17982765
Next step is botan benchstone.

>>17982812
Now we hit it koma with the benchstone.

>>17982947
Okay. I missed some scratches, but it's good enough for me. Time to even out the finish woth fingerstones.

>>17983034
And wa la. All done with my lazy polishing. The edge is at way too steep of an angle, so I will be gently putting a 15ish degree on both sides.

>>17982628
>>17982721
pretty impressed by that atoma, I might have to get one

>>17983075
All done. Wickedly sharp, but also a really nicely toothy edge thanks to this glorious nakayama maruka. Doesn't push cut through rolling paper, but it did slice through it.

If you want to test for toothy edge you drag the edge along your nail. If it grabs your nail it's toothy. If it doesn't you've got a smooth refined edge.

>>17983096
They're excellent. The 120 is too inconsistent imo, but the 400 is really excellent. They're very flat as well.

>>17983151
>They're very flat as well.
flat aluminium is cheap online
you can upgrade any double sided tape chink diamond plate to atoma flat with a 10$ piece of aluminium ordered to 70x200x8mm

>>17982765
>>17982812
>>17982947
>>17983138
your stone collection could probably pay off lebanon's foreign debt

>>17983151
I had a very negative experience with diamond once so I tend to think of them as being useless, it's just weird to see one actually being used, and being useful

Itt:

>>17983212
poorfag cope in every gear discussion:
>everyone who isn't a broke NEET doesn't know how to use a tool

>>17983195
The diamond is adhered to a piece of stainless, which is glued onto a piece of aluminum. They sell replacement diamond+ stainless for a little cheaper than a new one.

>>17983200
Generally I dislike working steel on diamond, but I was too lazy to find my 500 grit shapton. They are super fast, but I hate how they feel.

>>17982105
they don't really look like masters craftsmen and they say it's your job to sharpen your knife when you get it out of the box
they just don't look reliable to me
youtu.be/3CxVAbgK5vM

>>17983309
its hand forged, inferior quality is expected

>>17983034
we got your fingerprints now
very impressive work Anon, thanks for the detailed explanation

>>17983212
this reminds me of a youtube video comparing moritaka and victorinox where it's clear the guy hadn't sharpened his moritaka once since he bought it

>>17983309
This is probably just a gimmick they're doing for the video.
I imagine these knives are made at a standard factory as like any other.

Unless you're some professional chef just get a Dexter-Russel and don't worry about it

>>17983034
hey shiganon I got some finger stones recently but I don't know what kind of glue I'm supposed to use. the danish autist says "flexible and waterproof" but I don't know shit from shinola when it comes to glues. which one do you use

also when he says tissue paper does he mean kleenex or proper tissue paper from an art supply store or w/e. I apprenticed as a bookbinder so I know that paper is some serious shit in Japan, but I suspect Mr. Enevoldsen just means kleenex

>>17983431
nigga what do you think a vietnamese factory looks like

>>17983837
Bro, its Vietnam.
They have proper factories and industry. They're not mass producing knives by hammering them out on a cut off axle. They're making them in a factory with autohammers and stamping equipment.

>>17983825
Very nice. Fingerstones are really fun and a massive, massive pain in the ass.

Maxim gave me this washi(?) Type paper. It's really thick and coarse, but you strip off a layer like in pic and use that. The layers come off very thin. Don't know what's its called.

Traditionally they used urushi laquer to adhere the paper, but clear nail polish or a 5 minute epoxy thinned with some spirits will work well.

You can also get away with using a really tiny piece and you don't have to back it. Backing the fingerstones is so you can crack them and they bend with the curvature of a katana, while remaining held together.

>>17983870
>>17983837
americans unironically believe vietnam still looks like an old war movie

Go on korin.com and read item descriptions
It will tell you everything you need

>>17984103
We're not stupid, we know colors existed back then.

>>17984103
American unironically never think about Vietnam at all. I suspect most that eat Pho have no idea that's where it comes from.

And let's be honest, who gives a shit? Just another SEAbug nation.

>>17962322
I have a messmeister that's really nice. Brand doesn't really matter. High carbon steel = good knife. The rest is aesthetics and weight distribution. I don't care for wood handles though. Nice quality composite is the best handle material.

>>17962322
>chef knife
kill yourself, there is only one knife you need, bless the motherland

>>17983894
there's a specialty store in Toronto where I can get some washi. maybe I'll do that.

the tiny piece sounds like a good idea too, will at least let me start trying out this stuff without figuring out the glue

Look for steel quality first then whatever fits your hand well or suits your fancy, I like VG-10 steel most but my kamikoto knife is made from shitty scrapsteel but I love the way it feels in my hand so I still use it

buying for the steel is a meme. heat treat makes a big diff and even more than that the grind is important. people will buy chunky knives that can't cut shit except tomatoes, and they paid $200 because they're made of aogami super or whatever. don't be a chump, check the grind before you order these knives, unless you have good stones and want to put in hours of work yourself

>>17968336
what's the top knife?

>>17984845
Looks like a Kei Kobayashi SG-2.

how do I sharpen this shit?
I don't feel like buying a rounded stone...

>>17985386
while typing I remembered I have some sharpening stones for my scythes, but they're very coarse
will give it a try anyway

>>17985386
On a round stone probably, like steeling it.
Maybe try wrapping some sandpaper around something.

>>17962322
Whatever company that makes an affordable, durable, knife whose handle fits well in your hand and can do the things you want it too without much hassle.

That's different from person to person.

>>17965041
Are you referring to the round handles, the D-shaped handles, the thinner flat handles, or the octagonal handles?

Personally, I could never stand the round or octagonal handles, but the D-shaped ones are great for my hands.

Inb4 Descartes related jokes about my hands.

>>17985530
do you know any said companies?

>>17985536
For me, it's AMBER.

>>17985536
Victorynox make some decent no-bells-or-whistles types of chef knives and pairing knives. Nothing wrong with them overall, nothing exceptional about them, the price is not crazy high.

I really like the knife I use, but I would not pay the 230 ish dollars it cost to buy. I got it as a gift. The brand is Masamoto. D-shaped handle, 7.5 inches.

As long as the steel is of good quality, it sits well in your hand, and you treat the knife well (don't throw them around in a drawer, don't drop them, don't machine wash them, don't leave them wet etc. Etc.), You should be good. Most knives I have used are not worth more than maybe 150 bucks. For that kind ofoney you might as well add a little bit more and get something custom from an actual knife smith.

Wusthof can make fine knives, Barr, too. But again, the feel of the knife in your hand, type of knife, and quality of the steel are the most important factor, and steel quality only really matters up to a certain point. Don't go too crazy with your spending for marginal returns.

>>17962322
>no bolster
What are you poor?

>vg10 “Damascus”
Hahaha you fags’ll buy anything.

>>17985551
Victorinox is a shit brand, literally sheet metal knives.

>>17969020
victorinox make the best knives hands down
my grandma bought some vegetable knives decades ago, the only thing still sharp in her drawer including brand new store bought cheap as shit knives
and she uses them for everything because she doesn't have proper chef's knives and yet they're still sharp even though she never sharpened them
it's all about the steel quality
the fucking nerd buying nippon knives because they have a funny pattern is just getting scammed

Except for perhaps a fish fileting knife, the only knife you will ever need is a Yoshi Blade.

>>17986360
>victorinox
>54 HRC
>sharp after decades
trust me bro

>>17986468
It’s Amazon adbots.

>>17986468
Thin sheets of (not abysmally bad) metal will just chug along. I have a few of like 50 years old no-name kitchen knives which outlived many newer, fancier purchases - prolly because they're full flat grind with 1mm spine. Then can stay without sharpening for years and they are always up to the task of making a sandwich, peeling potatoes, or any light kitchen work - and we use them as steak knives as well.
Victorinox was quite smart with their approach, I believe that their knives can deliver - if you can live with something so light and unsubstantial that is.

>>17964393
Test failed

>>17986355
Nothing wrong with stamped knives.
Its not 1800 anymore grandpa.

>>17987359
In 1800 you’d be killed for trying to foist a shitty stamped knife on somebody. There is absolutely no reason to buy one unless you’re retarded.

>>17987450
In 1800 they'd celebrate it as a marvel of engineering and consistency of material, of thickness, and of finish.
It'd be sought after by all that could get it.
Forged is anachronistic for no purpose other than as a show piece.

Bob Kramer

Thoughts on Shibazi chef knives?
This chinese knife with a non-stick styled coating seemed interesting.

>>17987450
Knife is a knife, just keep it sharp you autist

>>17988374
I think you're a retard who should choke on that non-stick coating

>>17988412
why?
Is not going to be heated, so fears of off gassing aren't really an issue. And when it comes to wearing out, then you're left with just a normal stainless knife with a resistant outer layer anyhow.
The only fear is if the, probably teflon, makes sharpening harder because you have to grind through it before you get to the steel.

>>17986592
btw, aluminum handles seem to have won the process of natural selection against steel, wood and plastic. They're durable, hygienic, grippy, warm to the touch and not too heavy so the knife is properly balanced.

am I crazy or does a kasumi finish actually help avoid sticking

been running my hand over my knife and the surface where I redid the finish my finger seems to glide over effortlessly, whereas it catches on the old finish

>>17986360
>v'nox still sharp after "decades" of no sharpening

>>17985386
I always use a kitchen steel

>>17962322
Chinese peasants who sell their wares on eBay make the best knifes. They are all oil quenched carbon steel with simple wood handles, but they can take a ridiculously sharp edge and hold it for a decent period before it needs to be stoned again. I love my vegetable cleaver.

>>17990680
I've considered going with something like that, or one from Alibaba, but I just can't convince myself to take a risk when you know there's no accountability on the other side if the knife is bad.

>>17983212
I can't finish that, I'm starting to sweat

>>17970573
>actually claiming to like that hack
ngmi

>>17983212
Reminds me of when I first started cooking with the random assortment of ancient dull as shit serrated knives my parents kept.
The ones with just those tiny microserrations along the bottom. Terrible, very dangerous looking back.

>>17966869
based

>>17965041
>japanese knives without the dumb handles
they are called yo-gyutos, as oppsed to wa-gyutos, which are the ones with the dumb handles.

>>17988374
>40Cr

>>17988374
>Thoughts on Shibazi chef knives?
I have a F208 and love it. They used to be cheaper, but probably are still worth it if you don't have many chinese cleavers to choose from where you live. Picrel doesn't look great though. Ugly and unneeded coating, cheap handle, overall not great. I also personally prefer straight edges rather than rounded, but that part is preference.

>>17990895
>when you know there's no accountability on the other side if the knife is bad.
Well on the plus side, they are often so cheap that taking the risk is worth it. I also haven't been burned myself though, all the ones I got turned out great.

If we're talking ultimate knife, Bob Kramer.

>>17994979
what's so special about his knives anyway

>>17970573
I cant imagine the soi levels needed to buy that.

>>17969020
excellent workhorse knife

>>17969020
Mercers are better these days.

>>17980457
>>17980473
Left in this case is a Tsunehisa

>>17984845
other anon is correct, kobayashi sg2 240
fucking wonderful knife

>>17995850
Literally one of a kind, he handmakes those things and makes a beautiful pattern for each one.

Plus he's one of few master bladesmiths that specializes in kitchen knives

I'm getting these as a hand-me-down.
They're in good condition but they look like freddy krueger, black(ceramic non-stick coating as IKEA puts it) Coating is peeling off.
Is there a way to clean off the black shit off it?

>>17997860
Interesting question but I would guess that elbow grease and a whetstone (any one will do) is the solution.

>>17966692
fucking hate you chris kill yourself nasty cunt

can someone please talk me out of buying this

>>17997860
Very carefully using a razor blade may work. It will be difficult to use abrasives if you want a clean finish because of the handle area.

>>17998981
DON'T YOU DARE

>>17999024
why not? maybe I will dare...

>>17964352
I push vector marketing and I love my scissors

>>17998981
Bro, you're paying over $300 for a piece of sharpened steel that doesn't even look ornate. There's a difference between 'minimalism' and something looking the exact same as a $50 Amazon knife. The steel is not better than a VG-10 that is less than half of the price. And the grind quality will go away within a few weeks anyhow when you take it to a whetstone personally.
If you want to shell out the big bucks on a trophy knife find a local blacksmith to contract an order out to.

>>17962322
>Who makes the best chef knives?
Xiaomi

>>17999127
>>17998981
Wait, that one was even over $400
Man, what are you doing?

>>17999127
>>17999136
this is pretty weak. you got anything else?

>>17999135
This would he kinda cool if it didnt completely fuck over your grip. Relegated to white mom/reddit soiboi tier

>>17984210
>High carbon steel = good knife
Heat treatment and consistent strict quality control is super important. Arguably more important than the steel itself.

>>17987450
Have a look at the official Wüsthof video on youtube that shows how they manufacture their knives. ALL knives are stamped nowadays, even the ones with a bolster that people consider "forged".

>>17988870
the finish absolutely does matter how much food sticks and how easily the knife glides through food. I thin my knives on an 80 grit belt sander and then buff the blades on a cotton wheel with coarse buffing compound. Gives an amazing misty finish and reduces stiction to almost nothing.

>>17999924
Pic?

>>17999917
show me a single knife forum guy who says Wusthof is good

>>18000057
Sorry I dont have the knives anymore... I practiced thinning on my cheapest knives and decided my cheaps sander didnt work well enough for my more expensive blades. later I gave all my cheap knives away to the culinary arts department of the local trades school.

>>18000159
Forum guys are max autism. Wusthof are fine but overpriced

>>17983212
>buy expensive meme knife
>dont know how to use it
>havent even kept it sharp
bliss emo

>>17999324
Alright faggity anne.
You're retarded-ass weeb knife is upcharged to hell because they know morons will shell it out.
Ever hear of that perfume company that got more sales when they jacked up prices, because that made the retarded public think their perfume was better quality?
Same thing here. Japs already figured you subhumans out and know that upcharging you $100s of dollars for the same product you could get at less than half the price, makes you think they're selling something better than they are. Because you're a simpleton.

>>17962322
No idea, but I bought a very nice set of knives from some guy that grinds them all out himself in a garage and they're sharpest, cleanest shit I've ever used.

>>17965469
me too

>>18000705
now this, I can respect.

>>18000660
ok, let me be clear: I was hoping someone who knows something about $300 knives could tell me I'm looking at the wrong one. Your cope works for other poorfags but it's having the opposite of the intended effect on me

>>18000898
The one guy with $10k of sharpening stones will eventually show up and tell you to instead buy from one specific guy who lives in a knife village where every knife sold is ritually masturbated on by their tiny jap dicks after they folded the metal a million times

>>18000912
he might point out that there's a white#1 y.tanaka slightly cheaper at JNS, really a much better deal

actually I wonder whether he thinks about tanaka at all. seems like his world is just kato and shigefusa

>>18000898
300 will get you an excellent handmade Japanese knife. Generally speaking a knife has 4 main factors to look at.

Steel - what kind of steel is it and understanding the difference between aogami super, blue, white, swedish will help you come to an informed decision on edge retention, hardness, ease of sharpening. Different steels will have a bit of a different feel, but not as much as grind.

Grind - handmade knives main feel comes from their grind. Some are thicker or heavier and won't feel as sharp, but have satisfying weight and won't be as fragile. Thinner lighter grinds will feel more precise and the more acute angles will feel sharper. They will be more fragile tho. The best makers like shigefusa can have a thicker grind for strength, and a very thin edge for max sharpness feel. They do this by having a convex grind leading to the edge. Check out my chip removal pics above to see what I'm talking about.

Comforts - is the spine and choil polished? Does it have a handle style you like?

Looks - is the handle made from exotic wood? Is there pattern wleded cladding? Looks are subjective and add value without necessarily adding functionality. Side note - certain bladesmiths like shigefusa will utilize pattern welded cladding to reduce warping from lots of sharpening.

With all this you will need to do some research on what other people have to say about the specific knife or bladesmith you're looking at in regards to feel unless you can get your hands on the knife. Look at the general dimensions like spine thickness, height of blade, weight, choil shots, and you will eventually be able to get a rough sense on the feel of what you're buying.

>>18000912
Lol, Seething knifelet.

>>18000966
My main goal is to understand what qualities make them such incredible knives, so I can apply them to my own knifemaking. I also have the collecting bug if you couldn't tell.

>>18000985
what knives do you own that aren't shigs?

>>18001105
Munetoshi butcher(love), munetoshi honyaki, mazaki gyuto, a really nice little japanese paring knife that I also love, but forget the maker. Old carbon steel Sabatier chefs knives, random debas I bought on ebay and restored, one of the good masamoto yanagibas, and a handful of knives I've made for the kitchen.

I mainly use the paring knife, shig gyuto, 8" sabatier, and the munetoshi butcher.

Depending on my mood I will use the shig santoku, or the shig nakiri as well.

Debas are pretty nice for cutting up big cuts of meat and trimming them, so they get some use as well.

Anywhere decent to buy knives besides CKTG? They never delivered on a past order, so I ended up continuing to use shit knives. Even had a nice two-sided sharpening stone ready for it, felt bad.

>>18001333
The danish weeb at JNS has always pulled through. You can get a cheap little natural stone while you're at it.

You can also get beatup/used/rusty japanese knives on ebay for cheap if you want to have fun restoring them.

There's a guy called something liked "minor haned fish" on ebay who I've bought from.

>>18001345
Thanks for the recommendations, I'll look into them.

>>18001357
No prob. I was looking through that guys listings and this western handled integral gyuto came up. Looks like it could be awesome for the price of of 90ish dollars shipped.

Might need to replace the handle or atleast refinish it as well, but that's part of the fun.

>>18001376
I'm handy enough to do some refinishing, so I might look into this vendor. Been looking through his offerings, though I'm not sure where the sweet spot in pricing is. Some low priced ones in pretty nice condition (besides needing refinishing/sharpening), but some expensive ones that just look slightly polished, even with fucked handles. The knife you posted looks nice with that tiny metal band too, even if I like the aesthetic of JP handles. Anything I should consider before picking something? Thanks again.

>>18001376
>400x300
>zoom and enhance
>AI clean that up
>yep, it's a phone poster

>>18001487
Hard to say about where the best pricing is. I think for the most part they're all reasonably priced. I'd assume the cheap ones in good condition are cheap for a reason.

One hint if you're getting a wa handle is to look for ones with a real horn ferrule(black bit on the top). Generally speaking nicer handle = nicer knife. I think a lot of the knives that have the metal ferrule are just inexpensive replacements after the first handle wore away.


He combines shipping and refunds you the savings, so you save a little if you buy more than one also.

>>18001498
Hah, you got me.

>>17999875
1 chip or dent in the edge and you have to grind off 1/8th of the blade to remove it. There are other contenders, but that is among the shittiest knife designs.

>>18002093
This is why I fucking hate japanese blades. Oops a zucchini just raped my blade? I need to spend 2 hours sharpening and hope that steel didn't fuck up my digestive tract? It's not 1/8th, but enough I can spot it from the next room.

Fine Nihon steel, can cut air better than any other.

>>18002222
There's lots of softer Japanese blades out there. The harder ones get more rep outside of Japan because "why not just get any other mass manufactured blade at that point?". But yeah, you need to baby those ultra hardened steels with super thin edges, especially double bevel gyuto types.

I got my knife and cleaver at a flea market. Soaked in vinegar, sanded down the pitting with a belt sander, hit them with a wire wheel on a grinder, brought them to a polish with fine grit on the belt sander and then by hand, then put a new bevel and edge on them with a couple sharpening stones of varying courseness. New handles from a chunk of hickory and maple scrap I had, pinned with brass rod, shaped with a belt sander, coated in tung oil. They'll outlast me and I have about $12 wrapped up in the total cost of the project. Say no to Jewish consumerism.

>>18002251
an appreciation for japanese knives is the opposite of jewish. super sharp fine tools made by highly traditional craftsmen, in an industry kept afloat in spite of being slightly anachronistic because the internationally renowned quality is a source of national pride... they're almost fascist

>>17965127
>tomato moves several times
Not buying your "knife"

>Japanese knife can't even break down a chicken carcass
lol useless piece of shit showpiece. I'll take a big manly 5 pound German knife anyday over some effeminate pussy Japanese bitch knife

>>18002985
The thing with Japanese knives is that they are all essentially specialized tools. Do you use a paring knife to cut a watermelon or cube a 5lb chuck roast? Is it inadequate because it sucks at jobs it isn't designed for?

There are knives specifically made for breaking down chickens and working with bones. They're called honesuki.

>>18003107
>gomenesai chef-sama I have to grab my kirito-hocho, this squash is too hard for my usuba-kenzashi
>its right next to my hadokiru, hiroiha, mukuzashi-setsudan, and tanto
>no I can not use one in place of the other, are you crazy?!

>>18003240
>when you're wrong, but still feel compelled to reply.

Thanks for the (you), pal.

>>17968584
i received that set as a house warming gift 10ish years ago, its held up pretty fucking well actually
i have yet to use the cleaver tho

>>18003315
>He still thinks kitchen knife varieties originated in Japan along with the great katana varieties.
Lighten up Francis, kitchen knives and the related techniques are European. Even the word technique (pardon: "style") is European.

Enjoy your fast food, cut with Jap katanas. I mean knives! Knives! I swear!

>>18003315
Adulthood is understanding that making one knife good enough at everything is key.

YOSHI BLADE BAR NONE.

>>18003463
I prefer using the right tool for the right job, but I suppose what you're saying is reasonable for the average at home cook. Chef's knife and a paring knife is good enough for most.

When you make one knife work with everything you end up with a knife that doesn't excell at anything. You can't use a paring knife as a cleaver and expect it to perform well, let alone not get damaged.

Look at any professional butcher. They have a few different knives that they use.

>>18003463
I like the pepin protocol of having a 8-12" chopping knife, a 6" petty and a paring knife. Obviously, he prefers a western chef knife but you could pick a gyuto or chinese cleaver if you want. I went with a 5" petty and I use it more than I thought I would. Cheap victorinox paring knife. That being said my bro has a moritaka nakiri and that thing is fun as hell to use. Might not be the most versatile, but if you're going to have more than 3 knives you might as well branch out.

>>17969020
I got recommended this one too.
It's great and good for the price.
Unless you are spending 300 then you aren't going to get better than this.

>>18003240
It's not that complicated.

>>18004565
I promise you my $115 knife is better

>>18004907
Really which one?

>>18004928
Not him, but a munetoshi gyuto is 170. Handmade with white steel.

>>18004942
I wasn't asking you. Do you normally walk up to people randomly and tell them about your knives?

>>18004952
Yes. Yes I do.

>go away for the weekend
>come back
How the fuck is this thread still alive?

>>18004961
Knives are literally the most important piece of equipment for cooking.
Moreso than even a pan, you need a knife to feed yourself.
Of course there's a lot of discussion.

>>17966969
Okay guess passthrough sharpeners are a bit dumb for knives but they sharpened the fuck out of my yard tools. Got a $40 cerax stone (1k) and spent like $25 on a grip

>>17977852
dexter russell chinese cleaver is great

>>18005370
If your knife costs less than $50 pass through sharpeners or electric sharpeners are fine. They'll get the knife more than sharp enough for cooking.
The knife isn't worth the effort to learn a whetstone for, and if you take a few years of life off the blade, who gives a shit anyways? Unless you're the kind of person who takes pleasure in getting a razor edge. In which case a whetstone will do it better than any pull through.

>>18004961
humans love knives
the ones who don't, have been made extinct by us

>>18005881
based

>>18005344
I'd rather have an ok knife and a great pan than a great knife and an ok pan, but since I'm not a broke NEET I choose both

>>18006448
Ill take a great pan and knife.

>>18004928
it's an sk5 knife with a better than usual grind

>>18006532
Based.
Cooking with a bad pan just requires a little more technique. No technique in the world will make your knife sharp though.

>>18006850
>Cooking with a bad pan just requires a little more technique. No technique in the world will make your knife sharp though.
Bait? I can never tell on /ck/

>>18006922
Imagine you go over to a friend's house. He has a great pan and a great knife, as well as a shitty pan and a shitty knife. You get to choose a good and a bad one, which combo do you choose?
Assuming the shitty pan isn't a nonstick with cancer peeling off of it, I don't care much about the pan, I can make it work. But if the knife is dull, I will have issues finely dicing stuff, working quick etc.
Inb4 "just sharpen it" - the kind of person that has shit equipment is not the kind of person to sit down and sharpen their stuff for maintenance. Also a shitty knife that is properly sharpened is no longer shitty. And if we are talking proper bottom tier shit, it's some ceramic bullshit with at least 2 chips that is also far too short.

>>18006939
Imagine being stranded on an alien planet with only C-3PO and a redshirt from STTOS but transformed into a small grey dodecahedron

Now imagine you have a methuselah of fine burgundy, a few muscovy ducks, an energon cube from "the transformers" and a 2008 snapshot of spanish wikipedia burned to DVD-R

I think we can both agree that if the LAPD had been able to catch elliot roger before he shot himself and as punishment for his crimes forcefemmed him with t-blockers and daily high dose estrogen injections into his buttocks he would have made a fine female specimen, especially after a surgeon fixed his genitals and gave him a pristine, zero-depth innie. Like just imagine how popular he would have been in a low security men's prison, he wouldn't even need a real pussy. God I wish that were me

Also shigefusa hocho and stuff

>>17968336
that Kitisuke looks sexy as hell, anon
very nice collection

Babish

>>17966869
Is that a Misono knife. anon?

>>18007335
Kiritsuke*
fucking hell

>>17970038
Tell me a bit more about this knife and why it's so good. What do you like about it?
t. just bought a Tojiro to see if the improved performance over my $10 santoku is worth the price

>>17965127
is that a plastic cutting board?

>>18007881
its cool he only cuts things horizontally

>>18007881
probably
it's funny that restaurants are required to use plastic boards for safety reasons

>>17964352
I can't take cutco seriously anymore ever since I found out fucking Chris Chan tried going door to door with them, didn't sell a single one and then just kept them all

>>18008080
you shouldn't be getting that deep into chris chan lore. he's a human being, leave him alone lol

>>18008036
What else would they use?

>>18007335
thanks anon, its my favourite
its from Nigara, when i bought it i was initially looking for a completely different knife, but gave it a try in store and was sold instantly
>>17972997
didnt see this before, i'll take a couple pictures when i get a chance

>>18006994
Anon...
What the fuck?

>>18006994
>implying the LAPD wouldn't have received a stand-down order
you think they're going to STOP an incel rampage before it happens? right before a psyop summer ahead of a midterm election?

>>17966969
My friend is a caterer and she has ruined her victorinox knives with a shitty electric knife sharpener. Chipped edge, rolled edge, dented blade, you name it.
Half tempted to spend a day at her place with my whetstones and give them a proper finish but I know they'll be ruined the next day.

>>18009565
Put a really obtuse edge on them like 18 degrees per side then do a 14-15 degree microbevel. You can also do a convex edge with a really aggressive microbevel. Like 4 gentle swipes at 45ish degrees on both sides. A lot of japs that use single bevel knives like yanagiba will do exactly that. 45 degree microbevel.

>>18005881
>>18006007
Truth. You ever hear the thing about fay being weak to iron? There's some evidence that iron age people killed a lot stone age people living in mounds in Europe. Iron is mans' best friend. What do you think steel is? Better iron.

>>17983212
>fingers too weak to tear onion skin
I’m mad someone made this

>>18009525
Stick tang piece of trash

>>18009565
Sounds like she's making a living with her knives and you're being a mincing little faggot about it

>>18009246
wood of course

>>18009585
>Put a really obtuse edge on them like 18 degrees per side then do a 14-15 degree microbevel.
nigga what lol

how tf you gonna put a shallower angle on the microbevel