/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>16702484
I would prefer not to

>>16702484
I prefer "Savory" over "umami" because while I like using jap things and making jap food no one knows what "umami" means. Savory, on the other hand, is much easier to imagine.

Discus are an interesting fish but I'm not sure I would want to eat them frequently

>tfw my language doesn't have a word for 'savory', so I can say umami without impunity
INCELS BTFO

Savory literally just means not sweet. It doesn't otherwise describe taste at all.

>>16702499
and by 'without impunity' I mean 'with impunity' :)

>>16702504
Then please explain how teriyaki chicken is sweet and savory

>>16702509
savory means salty

>>16702509
By containing flavour elements that are not sweet

>>16702513
Tomatoes are savory, tomatoes are not salty, tomatoes are also sweet

>>16702521
tomatoes aren't savory, they have umami

Umami is the word you say to normies when you wanna act smart

>>16702526
>tomatoes aren't savory they just have savory
Are you being retarded on purpose? You better not be

>>16702531
Not. An. Argument.

>>16702533
Not. An. Argument.

Jam is sweet. A ham sandwich is savory. A ham sandwich with jam would be both. It's not that complicated.

>>16702484
savory basically means "meaty", which was an attempt to describe the umami qualities of food without understanding them. while savory did not originally mean umami exactly, it is the proper word to use in english as it is very close. the only reason to use umami is if you're a foreign cook or a pretentious douchebag.

>>16702547
This is just untrue.

>umami

>>16702555
States something is untrue, refuses to elaborate further

>>16702484
So why use savory at all? Really riles me up too, OP

>>16702531
Are you retarded? Umami is always savoury, but savoury isn't always umami.

This can be illustrated by thinking of all things umami as a subset of all things savoury.

If it's umami, it can also be described as savoury, but if it's savoury, it can't necessarily be described as umami.

Umami has a very specific meaning, while savoury can mean more things.

>>16702560
It's literally already in the thread. Savory refers to any flavour element that is not sweet.
https://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/savoury

>>16702569
>If it's umami, it can also be described as savoury, but if it's savoury, it can't necessarily be described as umami.
nice words with no examples retard

i hate umami more than i hate mouthfeel and i once glassed someone over the latter. let this be a warning to you all.

>>16702547
Wrong. You use umami when you want to precisely mean umami instead of possibly leaving it ambiguous to many meanings by using savoury.

A soup made with only water, carrots and salt can be described as savoury, but it's not rich in umami.

>>16702572
See >>16702572 retard.

>>16702484
Not food or cooking related.

Enjoy your trip to page 10.

>>16702484
I just call it oiishi

>>16702579
Not true, the Japanese use it as a synonymous with savory, that dish would be called "umami", retarded weeb. There's no other word for savory in their language.

>>16702581
uh what? lol

English is actually a shit language with lots of exceptions. The nipponese have a precise word for the flavor of glutamates while Anglo tards will you a word like savory to mean twenty different things. Simple as.

when someone says savoury i think of salty crackers
when someone says umami i think meat and richness

>>16702699
>salty crackers
they're salty then, idiot. not savory

>>16702703
describe savoury

>>16702725
not sweet

god i love this thread

>>16702692
The Japanese use umami as a synonymous for savory, retard. Savory foods without glutamated are still called umami.

>>16702699
Meat is salty and richness is not a flavor.

>>16702730
theres a lot of things that arnt sweet, including salty
it bitter savoury, is spicy savoury?
>>16702738
>meat is salty
wut?

>>16702732
They do? Give me one example

>>16702748
>meat is salty
He's only ever eaten mcdonalds, I assume.

>>16702725
Describe any flavor to me without referencing flavors

>>16702738
>meat is salty
I think you eat a lot of processed foods

>>16702779
Au contraire, it's precisely because I don't stuff my face with oversalted food that I can taste the salt in plain meat. If I were used to eating foods that are overtly salted, moderately salted things or things without any added salt would taste bland. Just like fatties who are used to drinking so much soda that fruits aren't sweet enough for them.

>>16702484
Faggot and OP also describe the same thing

Savory = not sweet
OP = autistic retard

Savoury means not sweet. The idea that it has the same meaning as umami has only come about because people who were afraid to say a foreign word needed an English substitute.

>>16702663
Meant to link to this: >>16702579
>A soup made with only water, carrots and salt can be described as savoury, but it's not rich in umami.

>>16702788
Even though meat naturally contains salt it's not refered to as salty.

Just like a fresh water lake isn't called salty even though it indeed contains salt.

>>16702880
You're not familiar with Japanese, otherwise you'd know it's used to describe savory foods, regardless of the presence of glutamates, reddit.

>>16702890
It's called savoury, salty is used to foods that contain salt in more perceptible amounts.

>>16702893
Give me a single example of Japanese calling something umami regardless of the presence of glutamates

>>16702883
sounds salty, not savory.

>>16702579
Carrots and other root vegetables are extremely high in glutamates

>>16702893
>うま味となるだし昆布や鰹節を使用した出汁は、日本料理の基本となる伝統的調理手順のひとつである。そのため、日本の学者は「ダシがきいていない」という味覚は塩味や酸味が足りないのとは違う感覚であることを経験的に知っており、うま味の存在に早くから気づいていた
>Dashi stock made with umami kelp and dried bonito is one of the basic cooking procedures of Japanese cuisine. Therefore, Japanese scholars empirically knew that the taste of "not soup stock" was different from the lack of saltiness and acidity, and was aware of the existence of umami from an early stage.

>>16702919
and yet carrots taste sweet, not savoury, let alone umami

>>16702927
They do? A carrot and salt soup taste pretty umami to me

>>16702922
First of all, the tongue map is bullshit. Second, that link only proves that Japanese scientists isolated MSG, not that it has a specific taste.
>hmmm, I like helps
>*isolates MSG, which is present in kelps*
>this obviously means MSG is responsible for kelps' taste
This is as arbitrary as saying any other component in kelps is the one that gives it its taste.

>>16702484
Ur mommy was pretty savory last night.

>>16702934
ill try it a carrot salt soup for the sake of experiment, but to me carrots are a sweet vegetable

>>16702498
Are they savory

>>16702937
Yeah, they just isolated it and stopped there. Surely wouldn't try diluting it and adding it to other things and comparing the taste. Silly scientists.

>>16702941
>wh*te people

My best guess for the reason this is a recurring argument is that stupid people, in addition to their low mental functioning, also have dulled senses. They are simply incapable of detecting, and much less describing, the nuances and subtleties of taste and flavor. It’s like feeding your dog a perfectly cooked medium rare streak measured by a thermometer and then trying to ask the dog what it thought the doneness was.

Umami is old and busted, kokumi is the new trendy food word.

>>16702951
B12 has a taste as well, after all you can isolate it and add it to things. Same thing with protein. All we need now is for snake oil salesmen to rename them so that retarded redditors convince themselves they are the sixth taste™ and seventh taste™.

>>16702484
umami is the flavor of MSG
savory doesnt imply any specific flavor, its a synonym to delicious, tasty
everyone else ITT is wrong

>>16702927
You idiot, a carrot soup with salt would be salty and classified as savoury in the culinary world.

But you can replace many vegetables here. Potato, leek, whatever. It's not going to taste good either. Just going to be a salty aka savoury meal, without having umami-properties.

>>16702914
The dish would be savoury as salty/opposed to sweet (sweet as in dessert, pastries, ice cream etc.), but not savoury as in umami.

>>16703776
>>16703781
Umami taste doesn't exist, it's savoury. Learn Japanese, you retarded weebs.

>>16702484
You probably think buffalo sauce is the same as hot sauce. It's not the same, idiot

>>16702484
True. Comparable to how "texture" and "mouthfeel" are the same thing

>>16702521
>Tomatoes are savory

Are the people saying "savory" means "not sweet" just ESL or maybe british?
I would never call a potato savory, and any other native English speaker would be confused if I did.
I understand the distinction between sweet chef and savory chef, but that's a different meaning of savory.

>>16703946
>I would never call a potato savory,

This is, always has been, and always been an absolutely pointless argument. It does not matter what you call them. The flavors are what they are.

>>16703986

>>16703969
Are you british or ESL?
Potato isn't a perfect example.
My point was that a potato is less savory than something like mushrooms, steak, or anchovies.
If it just meant "not sweet," how could it admit degrees?

>>16703990
What an autistic way to build a sandwich

>>16703992
>Are you british or ESL?
Both

>>16702484
I associate people who use the term "Umami"over savory to be either pretentious trendy hipster types or weeaboos.

>>16703946
>>16702692
>>16702579
>>16702569
>>16702504

All prepared dishes are first separated into two categories, savory and sweet. Savory dishes may contain a sweet element, but sweet is something in which sugar is the dominant flavor and is typically served as a dessert or confection. Savory implies a dish that is intended as primary nourishment, that makes up the main part of the diet.

Umami is a specific taste relating to the presence of glutamates, or glutamic acid in food. It is not a word that describes a general purpose for a dish, like savory does. Potatoes are usually savory, even though they are not umami, because to use them in a dessert like a potato cake or pudding is very rare.
Put simply, savory is part of a dualistic approach to food distinguishing sustenance and pleasure/dessert. Umami is one of the basic tastes detected by the gustatory system.

>>16704039
So is my dick sweet and my jizz savory or is jizz sweet and my dick savory?

>>16704045
It depends on the purpose of the prepared dish. If your dick was the main meal, then perhaps the jizz would be served as dessert. Making the dick savory and the jizz sweet. That is, if you ate plenty of pineapple beforehand.

>>16702573
umamouthfeel

>>16704039
Yes, dishes are savory or sweet. That's a classification of dishes.
Savory and sweet are also flavors. My entire life I've used savory to describe the flavor of steak, soy sauce, mushrooms, etc.
What's more, savory is such a specific flavor to me that I can tell you if something is more or less savory.
Steak is more savory than potatoes.
Soy sauce is more savory than mustard (which I wouldn't really call savory at all).

>>16704039
Umami taste doesn't exist, retarded weeb. Umami is a Japanese word that means savory, anything that's savory is referred to as umami in Japanese, glutamates or not. This is why actual Japanese laugh at you. Go back to rebbit.
Umami is as much of a taste as B12, isolating something doesn't mean it has a taste.

>>16704111
That usage of savory may be colloquial, or simply wrong. Savory has never been applied to the flavor you describe in any literature pertaining to culinary arts or in nay dictionary. Maybe as a result of the cross-cultural exchange of ideas resulting from the popular memes about umami, you got confused and mixed up terms? Any classical cookbook or chef would only use savory to describe a meal that's not primarily sweet and contains meat and vegetables in a conventional food.

>>16704124
Maybe in actual Japanese you're right. I'm referring to the English language usage of the word umami. English adapted the general word for "tasty" from Japanese to use in a specific context of glutamates. We may use the word differently, but it doesn't invalidate its legitimacy just because you have a knee-jerk contrarian reaction to anything japanese.

>>16704132
you're telling me you never heard someone say "this dish is really savory"

>>16704147
In that context they just mean delicious or agreeable. It doesn't literally mean higher in glutamic acid like umami does.

>>16704147
cf

>>16704162
No, they don't.
Elotes is delicious or agreeable, but no one in their right mind would say "wow, this elote is really savory."

>>16702484
Umami refers specifically to a glutamic flavour. Savo(u)ry can refer to this flavour, be used in contrast to sweet, or refer to the herb.

>>16702484
I prefer "umami" over "savoury" because savoury just means "it's not a desert" and that's how everyone uses it. Everyone knows what umami is where I'm from/in my age range, so I don't have >>16702493's problem.
>>16702530
Nobody would say umami to sound smart. It's just a normal word, like tsunami or katana. Just because it's Japanese doesn't make it smart-sounding.
Maybe it was a meme word ten years ago but it's fully normal now. It's time to move on, boomer.

>>16703946
Well, I am British, and I would absolutely say that e.g. baked potatoes, boiled potatoes, roast potatoes etc. are a savoury dish.

>>16704218

Tsunami and Katana refer to specific things. You wouldn't call any sword a katana. Just like umami shouldn't be thrown around in place of savory

>>16704220
Umami refers to a specific flavour, one which you use "savoury" to refer to. It's the height of useless autism to get mad when someone uses a different word than you for the same thing when you know what it means. Do you also cum with anger when someone says coriander instead of cilantro?

>>16703808
Katana also refers to literally any fucking curved sword, what's your point? Nobody's calling a European sabre a katana, but that's exactly what they're called in Japanese. It's an English word, loaned from Japanese.

>>16704222
If they've got an accent, I ask if they mean leaves or seeds. Does that count?

Can anyone post a list of things that are savory but not umami and vice versa?

>>16704138
>English adapted the general word for "tasty" from Japanese to use in a specific context of glutamates.
Lmao this is a troll post? Literally only reddit-tier retards use that word. People irl use savory.

>>16702484

Is this what we're gatekeeping today? ok

>>16704162
>It doesn't literally mean higher in glutamic acid like umami does.
Umami doesn't mean that, talk to an actual Japanese person.

>>16704271
Nah you have to physically cum.
Here we just call the leaves "coriander" and the seeds "coriander seeds". I dunno how you'd tell an accent online though.

I love savory, I grow it in my garden.

>>16704275
I can give you one of each... I'm not that invested that I want to make a list.

savoury but not umami - salted, herbed roasted potatoes without garlic or onion.

umami but not (necessarily) savoury - garlic fudge

>>16704306
Umami = savory

>>16704286
We're not talking about "umami" in the Japanese language, but in the English language, retard.

>>16704279
Zoomers in the UK use "umami" to mean, well, what everyone ITT is saying it means. I can't speak for other ages or countries. It's a word people use IRL here.
>>16704286
Please read >>16704244
>>16704275
Savoury but not umami
>a salad
>literal bread
>rice
>>16704306
What the fuck is garlic fudge

>>16704290
Same here, usually. Sometimes you can just tell someone's French, Nafri, Italian or Spanish by their diction and punctuation. Other times, it's just another American bringing down the test scores.

>>16704306
>garlic fudge

sounds vile

>>16704313
Fudge made with roasted or black garlic. It's great with toasted sesame seeds in or on it.

>>16704313
so protein makes umami and just not being sweet is savory

>>16704319
And strawberries don't seem like a viable substitute for tomatoes. Sometimes you just gotta try things.

>>16704325
>And strawberries don't seem like a viable substitute for tomatoes
...Are they?

>>16704313
Zoomers in your country are retarded redditors then, there is no glutamate taste. They might as well be using a Japanese word for B12 and claim it has a taste and that it's the sixth taste™.

>>16704323
glutamic, inosinic and guanylic acid salts make umami... almost exclusively. Some protein sources are lower in these salts than others. Some fruits are reasonably high in them, like guavas and dates.

>>16704346
bruh imagine having a name for a taste that literally just comes from some chemical group, fucking embarrassing right
the japanese must be so salty right now

>>16704334
They work really well with hot peppers, garlic, and rosemary, especially as/in a wing sauce.

>>16704346
What's the Japanese word for soapy?

>>16704357
If you give me a burger with a strawberry on it instead of tomato I'm chuckin it as far as I can

>>16704368
Bukkake

>>16704352
so msg gotcha bout to make my salad umami

>>16704346
salt and msg are cheap... put some salt on one spoon, put some msg on another, and put a mix of the two on a third. You might get more of a sensation than a flavour out of the pure MSG, but you will notice its flavour when it's mixed with salt. Try it with corn-sugar (D-Glucose, also cheap), same results - which is why msg or glutamate-laden ingredients are often found in dishes that have been maillarded somewhere along the line, and why cheese, garlic and bread go so well together.

>>16704376
if I gave you one, you knew it was coming. Why would you ask for something you don't want?

>>16704397

>>16703946
>potatoes aren't savory
Mm mm love my potato and caramel dessert.

>>16704124
>Umami is a Japanese word that means savory, anything that's savory is referred to as umami in Japanese, glutamates or not.
>still yet to provide a single example

>>16704169
Yes? Someone would absolutely say that elote is very savory.

>>16704286
うまみ and うま味 are not the same
https://www.3030.co.jp/trivia/no6/

ITT retards who conflate salt with savory
umami = savory
yes they can coexist
just like things can be both sweet and sour

>>16704666
Savoury things have a salt taste to them, it just so happens that salty is used to describe foods that taste particularly salty.

>>16702488
fpbp. based literate anon

I don't know how my ancestors survived and I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be dead because my favorite flavor is bitter

>>16702484
>ITT: people try not to use the word "salty"

>>16704303
based fellow gardener

>>16704666
liking msg is a sign of a tastelet and a bad cook

>>16702484
Weebs insist on using Umami instead o Savory, just like how they say eating rice with chopsticks is better than with a spoon. Contrarian Japanese obsessers.

>>16706281
I couldn't give less of a fuck about weeb shit but umami is a more descriptive term for the type of flavor people associate savory with

>>16702484
Umami is more a sour savoury
Think soy sauce or the middle of a salad tomato

Let's just say "Suvamy" to incorporate both. Soon the name of a dish near you.

I can't believe my countrymen have retarded tastebuds
>savory = usually anything salty
>umami = the specific taste you get from anything loaded with glutamates or monosodium glutamate, ie tomatoes

>>16706781
and yes, MSG is full of sodium so it's both savory and umami. there are no inconsistencies.
/thread

>>16702521
Tomatoes literally contain MSG

>>16702579
I use u mommy when I wanna nut in something dirty, faget

>>16704244
So basically they're calling European sabres "sabres" but in Japanese?

Motherfucker do you think they'd be going "SABRE ARSO REFERS TO ARITERARRY ANY FUCKINGO KATANA. NOBODY ISA CARRING TACHI A KATANA BUTTO DATS EXACTORY WHATTO DEY ARE CALLED IN ENGRISH. IT'S A NIPPON WORD ROANED FROM ENGRISH!"

>>16704303
I got a savory, but I don't know what to do with it. It's a cute little plant though, happy lil herby fella.

>>16706872
No, they're calling any curved sword "katanas", whether they're sabres or scimitars or what we would call katanas. Meanwhile, in English, "katana" refers to a specific kind of Japanese sword. Likewise, umami might just mean tasty in Japanese, but in English it refers to a specific taste. I thought it was a pretty understandable point so I'm not quite sure where you tripped up.

>>16704218
extremely reductive and low resolution reasoning. you should go back to r*ddit.

>>16706902
The westerner SEETHES and WAILS when confronted with Japanese superiority.

>>16702484
>LOL YOU AREN’T EVEN A PROFESSIONAL CHEF LIKE GORDON RAMSAY ONLY REAL CHEFS CAN TELL THE TASTE OF OOMOMMY I BET YOU HAVEN’T EVEN TRIED WAG-YOU BEEF LOL

I think I agree but I'm an amateur cook at best so my opinion doesn't count for much.

>>16702762
Saltiness and Sweetness can both be detected most by the taste buds near the tip of the tongue.
Furthermore, almost all flavours can be linked to one ingredient that almost tastes like nothing but that one flavour.
“Salty” tastes like salt.
“Sweet” tastes like sugar.
“Spicy/Hot” tastes like black or cayenne pepper.
“Sour” tastes like vinegar.
“Bitter” tastes like whiskey.
What ingredient does “umami” taste like? MSG? Isn’t that basically just salt that chemically activates more dopamine bursts in your brain? That would be like calling “high” a flavour.

>>16706943
>near the tip of the tongue.

stopped reading

do you really believe this?

>>16706943
0/10 bait

>>16704220
tsunami means strong wave
katana just means single edged bladed thing. the character is 刀. if you look that up you will get more than just the sword.
but to a non-japanese then yea its more specific.

>>16706781
There's no specific glutamate taste, it's just the taste of salt aka savory. Tomatoes are savory because they contain salt. You deserve getting ripped off.

>>16702913
You won't find one precisely because it's a redundancy. It'd be like finding an example of "sweet ice cream".

>>16702499
>my language doesn't have a word for 'savory'
Seriously? How do you describe mouth-watering meaty foods?

>>16707304
Savory doesn't mean "mouth-watering" or "meaty".

>>16702762
Savory or "umami" is more of a feeling than a flavor. I wouldn't say a food tastes savory, I would say the food IS savory. I have heard plenty of people say "this tastes sweet" or "this tastes salty" but I have literally never heard someone say "this tastes savory" because savory is a quality of the food rather than a flavor. It's a difficult to described "meaty" quality that makes your mouth water, it's not a flavor. If I bite into steak I can describe all kinds of flavors occurring and "savory" is not one of them because the steak simply IS savory.

>>16707310
>Savory doesn't mean "mouth-watering" or "meaty".
Retard.

>>16707365
>look at this shitty definition they included to appease reddit trannies
Lol, this is no different from including Ebonics in the dictionary.

>>16707377
Just accept that you're a retarded ESL.

>>16707402
>synonyms for savory
>sweet
Kek, this is pathetic already, tranny.

>>16707402
>synonyms for savory
>sweet
Algorithmic linguistics never ever.

>>16707270
Your example makes no fucking sense. “Sweet ice cream” is describing ice cream with sweeteners.

There's nothing much to discuss, people against the use of umami are retarded contrarian.
You have to be clinically mongoloid to bash a word that better describe a taste just to distance yourself from "normie" that use the word to sound exotic or from hopeless weeb

>>16707643
Did you know B12 is the sixth taste™? We only need a Japanese word for it now, that will trigger those fricking right-wing contrarian chuds, sis!

>>16707643
Umami isn't a taste any more than "greasy" is a taste or "satisfying" is a taste. It's a feeling.

>>16707377
AAVE is as valid as any other dialect of English. I bet you don't get mad when ginnel is included in the dictionary though, do you? Wonder why.

>>16707655
taste is a complex sense, there are a lot of things that stimulate specific tongue receptors, but it doesn't make any practical use using all of them but just the more percieved ones

>>16707669
"greasy" is a texture property and "satisfying" is a sensation not triggered exclusively by taste, but that principally involve the brain . Thank you for proving my point

>>16707669
Umami is a taste like sugary, salty, acidic and bitter and everyone who says otherwise is a tastelet

>>16707700
>>16707701
No one has ever said "This tastes savory" or "This tastes umami." They always say "This is savory" or "This has umami." It's a property of food that generates a certain (non-taste) sensation, but it's not a specific taste.

>>16707643
I think it's literally boomers who have PTSD from like ten or fifteen years ago when umami was a fad word instead of a normal word like it is nowadays.

>>16707722
I've heard people say "this tastes umami" all the time, but I've never heard someone say "this has umami" IRL. Where do you come from and how old are you?

>>16707722
> No one has ever said "This tastes savory" or "This tastes umami."
desu who cares what americans say?

> but it's not a specific taste.
Except it does, just like "salty" is a taste.

>>16707738
>I've heard people say "this tastes umami" all the time
You're a fucking liar.
>I've never heard someone say "this has umami" IRL
I've never heard it IRL, either, I'm just referring to the pretentious youtubers and TV personalities who use the word umami. Everyone IRL just says savory.
>Where do you come from and how old are you?
Midwest US, 32.

>>16707731
Only reddit trannies like you say umami, normal people say savory.

>>16707758
>Im just referring to the pretentious youtubers and TV personalities
>I don't like the word because people I don't like use it. Yes I am a jelous faggot btw
It's time to grow up and be less insecure

>>16707756
Savory = umami = salty

>>16707776
> umami = salty
If it was, food industry would have just used salt, instead of glutammate of yeast derived umami
Try make a tomato sauce just with salt and no soffritto

>>16707771
I think it's a dumb word to use when speaking English because we already have a word for it: Savory. That's what makes "umami" pretentious to use. People don't use it in real life, but the people who do use it online will never say something tastes umami, tastes of umami, or anything like that. Umami is almost always described as a quality of a food or a sensation other than taste (they'll say something like "meatyness" or "mouth-watering").

>>16707790
Soffrito makes a sauce taste good because the vegetables it's composed of taste good, not because they allegedly contain a fifth taste™ that redditors got scammed into buying.

>>16707810
> Soffrito makes a sauce taste good because the vegetables it's composed of taste good
because of the umami receptor stimulation retard.

>>16707791
> Umami is almost always described as a quality of a food or a sensation other than taste
Except it doesn't, again. Umami is a taste just like salty, there's no difference

> they'll say something like "meatyness" or "mouth-watering"
If only there was a specific and correct term to describe the taste. It would be great, right?

>>16707758
Well, I'm ten years younger than you and I'm from the UK. I've heard it IRL a bunch from complete normalfags and only ever like
>ooh I really like this, it's really umami
I dunno why you're shocked I have different experiences than you given our different cultural backgrounds.
>>16707759
People don't really say savoury other than
>this dish is a savoury dish, so it can't be served for pudding

>>16707791
I mean, why be pretentious and say that something is "acidic" instead of "tongue tickling"

>>16702484
Umami refers specifically to the taste pf amino acids and savory to the taste of salt and/or fat and/or amino acids
If umami is too weeb, say protein-flavor or something

>>16707845
>it can't be served for pudding

What the fuck does this even mean?

>>16707845
>ooh I really like this, it's really umami
Yes, this is exactly my point. They're using umami to describe an OVERALL EXPERIENCE and not a specific taste. They don't say it has a strong umami taste, they say it's "really umami" just the same way you would say something is "really savory." Because it's describing a general sensation associated with meaty, rich foods rather than a flavor.

>>16707865
Acidic is fine, but I do think when people say shit like "bright" it sounds incredibly pretentious.

umami is one of the basic tastes along sweet, sour, salty and bitter, savory is a more generic term.
synonyms are a thing btw

>>16707915
It means that it's in western culture considered the sort of dish you'd serve as a starter or a main, but not as pudding.
>>16707921
>ooh I like this, it's really sweet
is also something I've heard my friends say IRL, so no, I'm not convinced by your argument at all. I think you just don't want to call things umami because of your own personal hangups.

>>16707965
I still think if you gave someone a bite of food and asked them to list the flavors they can taste they would not list umami or savory on that list.

>t. retards in this thread who don’t understand the scientific, physiological, and culinary distinction between “taste” and “flavor”

just accept that both English and Japanese are shit tier languages

>>16707961
Umami is salty. It just so happens that you redditors are so used to eating oversalted processed crap that something that is salty but not overwhelmingly so leaves you confused.

>>16708007
no, umami is definitely different from salty. it's detected by specific receptors that are activated by glutamate

>>16708068
So is b12, that doesn't make it a basic taste

>>16708079
What do you mean? The taste associated with b12 is the 6th taste, sprongeweembler, I've also found the tongue reacts different to fructose and sucrose so I'm going to be splitting the concept of sweet which doesn't exist anymore by the way it's just a generic term, and now they will be called crank and lostintoofle respectively

>>16707988
I've only heard people talk about how umami something is when it's very umami, I'll give you that. I suppose it's something people only think of when it's obviously in their face, unlike the other basic flavours we talk about.

>4chan hosts a discussion at the World Umami Forum
>only 14% of the audience makes it out unscathed

>>16708002
Please, enlighten us.

>>16708166
>World Umami Forum
Fucking why does this exist? Is there such a thing as Big Umami? The Umami-Industrial Complex? Are there actual Umami shills here trying to push the concept of umami for some sort of financial gain?

>>16708203
We just want your food to taste better.

>>16708203
hey man don't worry about it, no one is out to get you, just take it easy. haha there's no "grand conspiracy" to "interfere" with "food politics" haha. cmon now you're sounding kind of crazy, right? i mean if there was something like that, surely the word would get out and it would be shut down, they couldn't keep a secret like that for so long, so don't worry about it.

>>16708246
>it's real
wtf

>>16707965

Pudding is a dish not a course

>>16708350
You're free to investigate the differences in dialect which result in "pudding" having multiple meanings if you want to

You WILL eat the glutamic acid.

>>16702484
Both terms are fucking retarded.

>>16702484
Umami is a weeb term for savory. Just like anime for cartoon, manga for comics, JAV for porn, seiyu for voice actor and so on. There is literally nothing more to it.

>>16707448
A tragically underrated post

>>16702484
yes, multiple words can mean the same thing. i'm so happy you're learning ESL-kun!

i have never had to say umami ever in my life so it doesn't cause me asspain

>>16709556
OP is not expressing surprise at the concept of synonyms or complaining about them. His point is actually the completely opposite of that, namely that some people pretend those words convey two different things when they actually mean the same thing. Furthermore, synonyms are a thing in every language, not just in English, you stupid piece of shit.
Btw, the pronoun "I" is always capitalized in English, you're an ESL yourself.

>>16709556
>!
Exclamation marks are reddit-tier, btw.

>>16707838
>because of the umami receptor stimulation retard.
There's receptors for pretty much every micronutrient as well yet that doesn't make them a new taste, you fucking idiot. Also onions taste good as a whole, not because of one specific component you arbitrarily decide it's responsible for it tasting good.

>>16702570
>wikitionary

>>16703033
>Kokumi as a flavor-enhancing ingredient was isolated in the 1980s by Ajinomoto Co. Much in the same way the company isolated MSG to add umami into dishes, the company it could do the same with kokumi.
>Japanese Company discovers fifth and sixth flavors which aren't actual flavors but Flavor-Enhancers™
When will people realize this is just a marketing ploy to sell product?

>>16702484
Umami is a different kind of savory, dickhead.

>mouth feel

>>16707888
>If umami is too weeb, say protein-flavor or something
Holy shit, this is more autistic than just saying umami. Why can't you retards just admit that savory and umami are effectively interchangeable in common parlance?

>>16708415
The British usage of the word "pudding" is an abortion and yet more evidence that their opinions on constitutes proper english are irrelevant.

>>16710636
They're not

>>16710657
They are if you aren't autistic.

>>16710658
i have never heard someone use savoury to describe mushrooms and meat

>>16710666
Were you born deaf? Also, thanks for the study with a sample size of 1, definitely representative of the other 1 billion english speakers on the planet.

>>16702484
Umami sounds weird so i dont say it. Also if i say savory 99 percent of people know what im trying to convey to them

>>16702484
Correct

>>16710670
>people say it all the time bro trust me, youve just missed it every single time. youve just coincidentally worked in the kitchens and with the people that dont say it

>>16710696
Congrats fry cook, using umami to describe your manager's burgers makes you very special. Meanwhile the rest of the english speaking world uses them interchangeably because, once again, they aren't autistic like you.

Also
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=mushrooms+and+meat+savoury

>>16702498
What do they taste like

>>16707690
No

Savoury is a food you can savour

>>16704244
>>16707061
Not exactly, Japanese isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think it is. While the character 刀 is indeed read as Katana (as well as "Tou", though specifically in reference to scalpels, chisels, and similar tools) and can be used as a general word for mono-edged blades, the word Katana in ANY other form (かたな or カタナ) EXPLICITLY refer to the weeb sword everyone knows and loves. This nuance is obviously impossible to convey into English writing due to the differences in the languages, however you are being purely facetious if you interpret any English writing of "Katana" to mean anything but the traditional Japanese mono edged sword.

still no idea what this meme flavor is supposed to be

>>16710636
Umami's more specific, but in the right context (glutamates and nucleotides in the presence of salt, maillard products, simple sugars, caramel, etc.), they're the same thing.

>tl;dr umami is a subset of savory

>>16711015
That sort of brightness above saltiness that you find in roasted meat, cheese, soya sauce...

The easiest comparison I can think of is with audio. Salt would be high-mids - it's defining what you're experiencing. Not enough, and it's lifeless, but too much and it's irritating. When isolated, you know exactly what it is. Umami/Savoriness is more like presence and brilliance (high treble) - on its own, it doesn't do a whole lot, other than make you wonder why you decided to try isolating it, but when it's in the mix, it makes everything pop, gives things definition. Too much can be irritating, but you really have to overdo it in comparison to salt/high-mids.

>>16709556
What does being ESL have to do with not understanding that two words can mean the same thing? The whole point of learning to speak a new language is learning to say the same things in a different language. Even if you speak only one language, you'd know that other languages will have different words for the same concepts you have words for in your own language. I really don't know what logic you are supposed to be displaying here.

>>16710881
>you are being purely facetious if you interpret any English writing of "Katana" to mean anything but the traditional Japanese mono edged sword.
And you are purely disingenuous if you interpret any English writing of "umami" to mean anything but the fifth basic flavour, which is the entire point.

>>16711217
Your synaesthesia is retarded, umami is obviously bass.

>>16711435
>the fifth basic flavour
kek

>>16711449
What

>>16711435

The fifth basic flavor is savory

>>16704779
msg is no different than salt or sugar. if msg is cheating, using salt and sugar is also cheating.

>>16702504
False

>>16711449
What are you keking at, faggot

>>16707270
>it's used to describe savory foods, regardless of the presence of glutamates
>can you give an example?
>no because it's never used in that context
Wow anon you truly are a master of Japanese.

I prefer 'umami' because it's more international and in my country not everone knows english so well that they understand 'savory'
Umami is just more widespread.

>>16711470
Well according to OP that's the same as umami.

>>16702484
"savory" has the etymology of the old french savore, "tasty, flavorsome"
its related to the herb summer savory, which is used to boost the meat flavor in meat dishes.
it therefore means something like a 'tasty meaty flavor', although its not very strict about its definition.

"umami" is a more modern concept, but also comes from the japanese for 'tasty' or 'delicious taste',
and was popularized after it was discovered to have its own tastebuds besides sweet/salty/sour/bitter,
which specifically bind glutamates like MSG, and similar nuceotides. its associated not so much with meat, but with
MSG-rich products like soy sauce and oyster sauce.

as it turns out, 'meatiness' also comes in part from the glutamic acid in meat.
the two therefore have a different origin, but describe the same physiological process/experience. (interestingly, using the same etymology as well)
they both describe the tasty meaty flavor coming from the binding of glutamates to those specific tastebuds.
the difference is that 'savory' does not have that specific mechanism in mind, nor is it originally used for the extremer MGS tastes like soy sauce.
its therefore kind of a slightly vaguer precursor to umami in a way, which we might now with our modern understanding say is equivalent to umami.
its a bit like 'water' and 'H2O', where in the end water turns out to be H2O, but for a large part of history people didnt really know that, and it meant something a bit more vague.

>>16704132
Are you retarded? Everyone uses savory like that

>>16704646
Is this a fucking Britbong thing? Because nobody I know would ever say that

>>16711437
Bass functions on its own. My synesthesia says umami is vermillion; anything to the contrary is incorrect.

>>16711675
My senaesthesia is very easily manipulated so umami looks deep red-brown to me...i.e. the colour of intense stews and mushrooms. Yeah, I know.

>>16711435
Don't care since I don't have a horse in that race, I'm just being autistic about Japanese factoids.

umami sounds black

Just fucking calling it glutamate taste, because that's what it is. Clear and precise.

have read that both savory and umami were historically synonyms for something like "delicious". there are multiple historical examples of both umami and savory being used to describe foods not especially glutamate-forward. there are multiple historical examples of umami and savory used to describe clearly sweet (desert-like?) foods.
over time the usage of savory and umami have both come to more specifically refer to glutamic flavors.
umami and savory are near exact analogs between their respective languages. for all casual conversation they are entirely interchangeable.
when specifically referring to the response of specific glutamate receptors in gustatory cells and the mechanisms by which those responses occur, umami is used regardless of language to acknowledge that these responses were first discovered/characterized by Japanese researchers (and therefore the first cited works would have all used Japanese terms).

>>16711998
I don't think that's gonna catch on friend.

>>16702634
I prefer うまっ

>>16702493
>no one knows what "umami" means
What flyover state do you live in?

>>16702663
Me one the right. Like an absolute boss.

>>16702504
Language decided by Linguist fags genuinely believe this
-Language decided by it's Users Fag

>>16714688
everyone knows what umami means, but its become the new "al dente" where youtubers/foodies/queers feel an uncontrollable urge to constantly use the term then interrupt themselves to explain to you what it means every single time it comes up.

>>16714695
Me in the middle. Took out most of the neighborhood like an absolute pyromaniac god.

>>16714817
if anybody ever says umami in front of me irl I would laugh at them

how the FUCK do you fags get savory or umami from tomatos? they're sour or sweet

>>16702484
I always that umami was just salty

Wikipedia~
Umami (/uːˈmɑːmi/ from Japanese: 旨味 Japanese pronunciation: [ɯmami]), or savoriness, is one of the five basic tastes.[1] It has been described as savory and is characteristic of broths and cooked meats.[2][3][4][5]:35–36

People taste umami through taste receptors that typically respond to glutamates and nucleotides, which are widely present in meat broths and fermented products. Glutamates are commonly added to some foods in the form of monosodium glutamate (MSG), and nucleotides are commonly added in the form of inosine monophosphate (IMP) or guanosine monophosphate (GMP).[6][7][8] Since umami has its own receptors rather than arising out of a combination of the traditionally recognized taste receptors, scientists now consider umami to be a distinct taste.[1][9]

Foods that have a strong umami flavor include meats, shellfish, fish (including fish sauce and preserved fish such as maldive fish, sardines, and anchovies), tomatoes, mushrooms, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, meat extract, yeast extract, cheeses, and soy sauce.

>>16715516
They're sort of all three? You wouldn't put them on a dessert unless you were a chef memeing.

>>16715516
Oof tastelet

>>16702521
You mean ketchup retarded.

>>16710788
stop pretending people actually say savoury as a taste, people barely say umaami and savoury is even less common meaty or some other shit that actually describes the taste, its just used in dumb internet arguments

>>16702484
umami. savoury is ambigous

>>16715516
they're all atleast a little bit umami but it depends on the strain, and more ripe means more umami. also packaged tomato juice is more umami than most fresh tomatoes from the grocery store

>>16717748
What kinda retard goes to an imageboard thread specifically asking for a dumb argument and then whines at someone discussing the dumb internet argument. Also nowhere did I say that umami or savory are common phrases, I said they are interchangable which has nothing to do with the frequency of use. I swear everyone arguing for umami in this thread is a fucking Brit.

>>16720064
>What kinda retard goes to an imageboard thread specifically asking for a dumb argument and then whines at someone discussing the dumb internet argument.
u should go back, dumb ass tourist

Can anyone decipher this Signature Umami Cocktail? I can only read the right half.

Umami is a homosexual word spoken strictly by homosexuals and homosexual sympathizers

>>16702573
you bought someone a drink over a word you don't like? is this some high level passive aggressive autism?

Hello, is this the OCCASIONAL /CK/ SEMANTIC thread?
I TOO have a DEFINITION of the umama term thingy that you guys ABSOLUTELY NEED to KNOW!

>>16702484
True however umami tends to be used more for the meaty kind of savory. Just like how cilantro is generally used for the leaf of the plant and coriander is generally used for the seed despite being the same thing.

>>16702504
Savory refers to starches or carbs other than sachyrides. So it's not just 'not sweet' it's specifically nonsweet sugars. Alcoline and acidic are not savory

>>16722541
to glass someone means to physically attack them with your drink/bottle but i don't think anon actually did this and may in fact be telling an untruth for internet points

>>16702484
umami is the superior taste

>>16715425
Oh no a shrimp dick limp dick neck beard faggot is giggling about something while staring at his last chicken nugget how will anyone ever recover