/ck/ - Food & Cooking

these products are mostly targeted at non vegans who for political and signalling reasons want to eat less meat

vegans by themselves are too small of a market

>>16579527
Meat is delicious and healthy, and it is also wrong to murder animals.

Only just world fallacy vegan retards can convince their palate to dislike meat only because if it tastes good and is healthy then God wouldn't let it be an evil act to make it.

>>16579527
They don't hate meat, they hate slaughtering.

>>16579552
hunting and killing animals in the wild is much different than the industrial feedlots with animals stacked on top of each other standing in their own shit waiting to be slaughtered

>>16579552
>and it is also wrong to murder animals.
Why? I get being against the living conditions of industrially raised animals but what's the problem with killing animals? They'll die anyway, by getting killed by another animal, of old age or of sickness, all of which are more painful by a swift execution by a human.

>>16579577
can't help you there. i never understood the people who wouldn't admit the difference in quality of life between an animal raised for food on a small pasture vs in an factory farm. there's an obvious difference in the amount of suffering but murder still bad i guess?

>>16579588
Ok so you're not vegan. I think vegans just assume that justice is about maximising happiness and minimising suffering for any being capable of feelings pleasure or pain, so they just accept the absurd and logical conclusion of it by granting to all animals the same rights that humans enjoy.

They're similar I would say to the libertarians, who take the idea that "stealing is bad" to the absurd and logical conclusion and all taxes and therefore the state itself must be abolished.

I think they all have some form of autism.

>16579527
Why are meat eaters so fully obsessed with vegans?
It was funny to bash vegans about 10 years ago when they were all uppity about it, but I haven't heard a vegan giving some shit soapbox spiel in the past 5 years.
But what do I see every day now? You fags obsessed with what others choose to do with their lives. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

>>16579527
Pretty certain that vegans don't eat meat because of how it's procured, not because they hate the taste. This seems like a really obvious answer and I don't understand why you felt the need to ask the question.
t. avid meat eater

>>16579572
yeah I mean, its not like there is any middle ground between a wild animal and an industrially raised animal. There is literally no such thing as a small farm. You either hunt deer or go to walmart.

>>16579619
What the fuck are you talking about? I see posts all the time started by faggoty vegans telling everyone to watch dominion and shit.

>>16579527
fixed

>>16579815
Good

>>16579607
It's not absurd at all.

>>16579815
my beardy would absolutely love this

>>16579619
first time posting here eh?

we have daily post from self righteous vegans spouting all sorts of bullshit. lurk more.

>>16579837
I lurk here all the time and all I see are vegans only speaking up after retards like itt start spewing retarded shit

>>16579954
Retards are also like you.

>>16579527
Do we really need another one of these threads? Jesus Christ.

Many vegans freely admit they enjoy the flavor of meat. However they still avoid it for health, religious, or ethical reasons.

>>16579527
I tried this shit and it was gross. Browns weirdly and is greasy as fuck. I cant imagine what 100% plant based mince would be like

>>16579815
>incase anyone doubts that they can grow lettuce on the backs of human mice

>>16579607
this is an interesting point, but most typical people have an equally absurd attitude towards meat eating, which is basically to do it all the time, at the lowest cost, effectively propping up unethical, unsustainable, frankly evil, factory farming practices, at the detriment to their own health.

trying to eat free-range meat, and to reduce meat consumption, is not hard or crazy but most people find it offensive.

>>16580015
You've done it now, here come the hoards of larpers pretending like they only eat meat that was raised on an old mom and pop ranch living its best life ever.

>>16580030
People don't need to be perfect they just need to try to be better.
It's naive and unrealistic for people to be perfect. Even a vegan would have a whole host of damaging and unethical impacts on the world.

>>16579658
If this were true then they wouldn't be vegan, they would just eat whatever hip sustainably farmed buzzword meat was available or hunt the meat themselves so they know that it was ethically harvested.

>>16580048
>hip sustainably farmed buzzword meat
why is buying free range chicken for example, a meme?
even on a pure self interest level it tastes better. It's not that much more expensive. And the practices of factory farming for chickens are absolutely ridiculous. You could even justify it on a human level, people have to work in those places, which must be awful.

>>16579985
oh? link the other one then

>>16580030
yes it is impossible to buy wholesale meat from a local small farm that prioritizes animal welfare. They totally dont sell the meat cheaper than the supermarket per lb and the meat totally wont last you at least a year if not longer.

>>16580051
My intention wasn't to create a negative connotation it was simply to be all-inclusive so I didn't have to write out Small farm grass-fed organic non-gmo beef or free-range all-natural organic chicken.

>>16579837
>we have daily threads from false flagging meat eaters farming vegan group hate threads for (you)s. lurk more.
FTFY

>>16579527
>why do people want to taste things evolution has conditioned them to seek
what do you propose then? you can't create new flavours and textures because we have not evolved compatibility or the ability to comprehend them and they would probably be repulsive. you can't demand that people not seek to recapture the essence of what they choose to exclude from their diet as humans are configured to seek the nutrients that are accompanied by those flavours and also to seek constant novelty as those who ate varied diets survived due to getting balanced macros and vitamins, and reproduced. It blows my mind that people still ask this question.

>>16579988
This, although I miss dairy more than I ever have meat.

>>16579527
I've written graduate level philosophy papers arguing against veg fag talking points, but this is the one that I've never had a problem with.
>lol, you don't like meat?
>go and invent an entire new cuisine instead of just eating things that taste good and replacing the meat for whatever reason you don't want to eat meat!
It's so stupid and tiresome. It's almost maga tier reasoning.

>>16580455
I’m guessing you didn’t write your papers in English because that green text is incomprehensible

>>16580001
Hmm

>>16580519
kek

>>16579807
sadly thats true for a lot of people

>>16579527
Vegans are vegans because they think eating animal products is immoral not because they don't like the taste of animal products. I guess plant based version of meat is there for vegans to get as close to eating meat without actually eating it.

>>16579619
Making fun of retards is always fun. I dont want them to stop being vegan, otherwise Id wouldnt be able to mock them anymore.

>>16579527
Who cares? Let them have their ways, they'll eventually want blood dripping down their chin.

>>16580068
For 90% of the people in the world, yea, its impossible. So whatever you do doesnt really matter.

>>16579567
this, as a former vegetarian i can confirm, i wanted the taste but not the animal suffering. Now i want the taste and i want to ignore the suffering, thats why i´m not a vegetarian.

>>16581771
Being an embarrassing idiot repeating the same Facebook-boomer-tier one-liners doesn't count as "making fun" of anyone anymore than shitting yourself in the classroom while laughing at your classmates does.
Btw, vegans have higher IQ than non-vegans so vegans are empirically smarter lol

Is it ok to kill a living being, just because you happen to be hungry?

The advertisement targeted at these individual threads is starting to get good

>>16581819
>>16579567
Tbh I feel like once we can grow decent-quality meat in a lab, we have an ethical obligation as a species to end factory farming. Regular old farming where the animals get to live out in fields and don't get bothered much, yeah but seeing feedlots kinda makes me feel like we're going to look back on that as one of the greatest crimes humanity ever committed. Like how they sort baby chicks. Or that Muslim festival where they slow-bleed camels and donkeys and shit in an effort to get them to suffer and bleed as long as possible.

>>16582035
I'm not even vegetarian/vegan but the animal husbandry of the 21st century is abhorrent.
Fags on here like to larp about their ethical meat purchases, so it totally justifies eating meat. Except that 99% of the population can't actually afford to eat in an ethical way so their arguments are basically invalid even if they're true.

>>16579577
think that's the wrong stance to take, the "they die anyway" position.
the better perspective is that we are omnivores, we are just programmed to eat meat the same way other animals do. we are part of nature too, we cant exclude ourselves from the food chain.

but yes, the way the meat industry kills animals is a bit savage

>>16579994
>50/50
>8% meat
Pick one

>>16582084
I agree. I'm not at all a vegetarian or a vegan, but I think we have a responsibility to not condemn intelligent animals like pigs and cows to a hellish life of depression, fear, and pain. Fish and chickens I can deal with more easily, for obvious reasons, but it makes me unhappy to know that my delicious burgers from thisafter probably taste of cortisols that wild aurochs would never have. Obviously we can't hunt for all our meat, but I feel like that's kind of the natural order, just being another predator instead of cheesing nature to the point where we have so much food we're dying of excess. I can't wait to have decent steaks printed, because once they dial it in, every steak will be wagyu quality. In the meantime I'm just trying to figure out why we aren't farming crabs and lobsters more

>>16582125
>In the meantime I'm just trying to figure out why we aren't farming crabs and lobsters more
I feel the same about oysters. Oysters are so good at cleaning the environment they're put in. It seems like one of the few farmed meat source that is almost always a net positive for the world.
I feel like we should be experimenting with them, as much as I love raw and smoked oysters, I feel like there's a lot more potential for them than just those two dishes.

Rent. Free.

>>16582143
Seriously. Imagine terraces of clams, oysters, lobsters and crayfish, all fed through untreated waste water that's been left to decompose then seeded with algae and zooplankton and left to stew for a month or so. As long as there are no persisting toxins or heavy metals, it could be an absolutely fantastic self-contained arcology, and all of these animals are ones that would pretty much have no problem living in lower gravity, so lunar and Martian colonies could have a great source of meat, as well as a super convenient way to extract calcium and other elements in carapace and shells. On earth you could even have ducks and kelp in there. My God why aren't we doing this this seems like top-tier food for basically no effort

>>16579837
it's mostly bait and people falling for bait

We're going to save the planet by buying expensive plastic bottles full of amalgamated oils and starches. It's just science.

>>16581781
It isnt impossible for me and for 90% of people I know. Chest freezers cost as much as a smart phone, less than a PC, if you can't afford 4 years of high quality grass fed and fiished beef for 2 grand (for reference I dont go out to eat but I spent 6000 on food the year before I started buying wholesale meat. Many people will spend easily double that when they go out to eat frequently) you can get 2 years of high quality pork for 6 hundred.

If you can afford to go out to eat and order delivery, you can afford high quality meat.

It really is just a cop out to continue following an unsustainable and short term convenient system. People know they have to change but they only want to do it in ways that make them feel better, not by actually doing better.

>>16579527
>vegans

>>16581848
yes

>>16582191
>It really is just a cop out to continue following an unsustainable and short term convenient system. People know they have to change but they only want to do it in ways that make them feel better, not by actually doing better.
I agree.
Consoomers when given the choice will do what's act in their own, best short-term interest. That means no long-term planning, that means they won't buy a chest freezer because it's a large singular purchase. They won't buy a quarter cow because it's also a large singular purchase. They'll continue to buy bottom of the barrel, inhumane and unsustainable meat ad infinitum because it's the lightest thing on their wallets.
Instead of actively trying to do things which are better for the environment, they just want daddy government and papa tech to figure everything out so they don't have to do the "hard work" of making changes.

>>16581848
Yup, as long as you treat it well in life and don't abuse it or force it to eat things it shouldn't. That's why I buy from a small local farm that I have personally toured to verify their claims. Animal cruelty is wrong, but painlessly killing animals for their meat after raising them in a healthy and natural environment is not inherently cruelty.

>>16582241
>They'll continue to buy bottom of the barrel, inhumane and unsustainable meat ad infinitum lightest thing on their wallets
Its weird to me because it only SEEMS like its light on their wallets. But they usually are paying 15-25 bucks for a pound of steak, at least thats what I see people spend. Which is kind of crazy to me because the highest quality beef I can find wholesale (regenerative, rotationally grazed on organic pasture, slaughtered at a facility 15 minutes away etc) is about 8-9 dollars per lb for steaks, roasts, etc. And that's HIGHEST quality. I mean sure maybe an authentic A5 wagyu from japan would be more expensive but we are just talking about an animals that's raised organically in a way most people wouldn't find inhumane. Heirloom breed pork raised outdoors on organic feed is about 4 dollars per lb. This includes bacon, which I see at the supermarket for more than that.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

>>16582261
I really hope you do. But if everyone consumed meat ethically in that manner there would be no way to currently meet the world's meat consumption demands. So unless we drastically reduce consumption, shitty factory farming will always be a thing.
This is why I still eat meat, but only on occasion. No one needs to eat meat daily, or even weekly for that matter.

>>16582275
> But if everyone consumed meat ethically in that manner there would be no way to currently meet the world's meat consumption demands.
Bullshit.

>>16582272
People suck at finances and planning. It's the same reason a lot of poor people say that McDonald's is cheaper for them than anything from the grocery store, because they go to the grocery store and have to pay $100 but at McDonald's they only pay $10. They don't seem to account for the fact that the $100 at the grocery store is paying for 2 weeks of food while the $10 at McDonald's is paying for 1 meal, they just look at how much they're paying in THAT MOMENT.

A lot of people also don't understand how to buy in bulk or prep things in general. At my local farm I can buy ribeye steak for $30 per pound, but I can get a whole rib roast for $15 per pound and just trim and cut my own ribeye steaks. Or I can get their ground beef for $9 per pound, which is more of a staple, but some people are convinced the only good beef to eat is steaks so they pay the huge markup for the convenience of someone else trimming them a steak and avoid any kind of roast or ground beef. It's all still about double what beef at the grocery store costs, but way, WAY cheaper than people think it has to be.

>>16582275
I absolutely do, yes, and I doubt claims that making all meat ethically would mean we couldn't feed everyone. If you actually go and look at just how much unused farmland exists out there it's absolutely astounding. We can't grow vegetables and grains on most of it, but if it grows grass then it can sustain livestock, and that's the majority of that land. For all the claims of overpopulation and running out of land, we actually have shitloads of surplus land, at least across the US. To me it seems like those claims are made either by vegans/vegetarians who just want to convince people meat is unsustainable, or factory farming corporations who want to convince people there's simply no other way so they can continue to falsely justify raping the land and animals to keep costs low and profits high.

>>16582287
>Bullshit.
My capstone thesis was on cattle husbandry and its environmental impact. You don't even need to go to school to see the giant discrepancy of output between factory farmed meats and proper ranch-style farming.
Ethically raised beef takes a lot of time, land and money and as a result they're always going to have smaller yields than factory farmed.
70% of the beef sold in the us is factory farmed, don't know the other countries or the world average, but considering how shitty china and brazil are, I'd imagine their percentages are even higher. And like 99% of all other farmed animals are factory farmed.
Cut out 70% of the beef supply and what else are you supposed to do? Or 99% of hogs and chickens?
The only way for everyone to eat ethically is to reduce their consumption.

>>16582365
>Cut out 70% of the beef supply and what else are you supposed to do? Or 99% of hogs and chickens?
This is a bad argument. Yes, if you just delete factory farms and only leave behind ethical farms that currently exist you'll have serious problems. But the REAL goal would be to REPLACE the factory farms and USE MORE LAND. You probably couldn't quite get up to a 100% replacement so the supply would reduce, but it would NOT reduce by 70% or 99%. In addition, you have to account for how much of that factory farmed meat is wasted. You think there's a 100% sell-through rate for all the meat at the grocery stores and butchers? Hardly. If anything, we might even end up with a better balance and less waste if we reduce the supply but also sell-through a higher percentage of that supply.

>>16582202
>>16582210
>>16582214
>unironically posting Facebook-boomer-tier memes
Lmao, embarrassing

>>16582365
The thing is if people learn to buy wholesale meat, they can actually save money by buying wholesale large animals. A whole pig can feed a person for 2 years, a whole cow for 4. A grass finished cow will take 24 months and will still produce plenty of meat. For pigs the difference is between 6 and 11 months.

Should consumption go down? Consumption of everything should go down. Look at how fat we are. This has nothing to do with meat. Everyone consumes, no one produces. This is why we have these shitty consolidated farms. Factory farms is a less accurate term. its a consolidated farm. Due to the fact that people would rather cram into cities and give their precious time to a rich asshole for something with artificial value.

>>16582382
>USE MORE LAND
You do that bud. You go make this magical land to graze cattle. No need to mention that 41% of the US's landmass is already used for cattle, about 788 million acres.
So even if ranchers were somehow able to buy trillions of dollars worth of land just for cattle, even getting up to 70% of the cattle to be ethically sourced would take up around 80% of the united state's land.
It's a fucking pipe dream. People are going to have to accept that we as a species can't just consooooom like we have for the past 200 years. This extends to everything else as well, not just animals.

>>16582429
>No need to mention that 41% of the US's landmass is already used for cattle, about 788 million acres.

Is that counting the corn fields? Because when I drove across the country most of it was completely barren of everything. The midwest has a lot of cash crop fields though.

>>16582433
No, cattle do not graze in active corn fields.
> Because when I drove across the country most of it was completely barren of everything
Which also means it's usually not great cattle grazing land either.

>>16582433
Most of those cash crops go to feed factory farmed animals or to make ethanol.

>>16582441
So that statistic does not include land used for growing crops for cattle?

Idk I did not see half the land being used by cows. Again, most of it didn't have much, and if it was arable it had crops. The only ranch land I saw was no good for growing crops like in texas where the only crop I saw grown was cotton.

>>16579619
Is that why every single fast food chain is shilling
>COME TRY OUR NEW IMPOSSIBLE BEYOND DELUXE CRUELTY-FREE VEGAN CHICKEN MADE WITH 100% RECYCLED SOY

>>16582429
What are your thoughts on the fact that beef consumption in he united states has actually dropped by almost 40 percent in the last 40 years?

>>16582451
It doesn't matter what your anecdotal experience says. You can easily find these numbers with the Bureau of Land Management.

>>16579607
>it's absurd to compare the government utilizing the threat of force, implied and explicit, to deprive you of your earned wealth to a mugger pointing a gun at you and demanding your wallet
Ok, libtard

>>16582461
Less consumption is great. But now we're seeing Brazil, China and a lot of Asia's beef consumption grow as more and more people are lifted out of poverty. So for whatever amount we may have reduced, the slack has definitely been picked up by developing nations.

>>16582464
Ok so if beef consumption in the west has dropped over the last 40 years then does that mean we were using even more land for beef back then? Does that mean our environment is better now than it was then?

>>16582125
>tfw don't like eating crab because crabs are cute

>>16580001
Being vegan means I cant eats meat, cant eat treats, so take a seat

>>16582487
So youre saying that it doesnt matter what the west does.

>>16582488
It's probably meat consumption per capita. So the % may have gone down, but overall beef eaten has likely gone up.

>>16582495
so this guy thinks people should eat less beef even though we already eat less beef?

>>16579527
why not? who cares. might as well ask whites why they try to imitate blacks so much while you're at it

>>16582495
The US also exports a lot of beef.

>>16582429
We could turn land that we use for crops that go to animal feed into grazing land for animals. We could cut production down across the board. We could address the fact that more than 40% of all food produced goes into landfills.

We are already over-producing food by an exponentially ridiculous amount and it seems to just get worse over time. If 40% of all food goes to landfills that means we can afford to create 40% less food than we currently do. Try putting that into the calculation. Again, it's just not as cut and dry as "70% of beef product is factory farmed therefore non-factory farms could never replace that 100% and it's a lost cause." We DON'T NEED to reach 100% replacement of food production because the food is ALREADY OVER-PRODUCED by a HUGE amount.

The only reason for thinking the way you're suggesting is if you want to promote the continued over-production and waste of food for the sake of corporate profits at the expense of everything else.

>>16582493
It does matter what we do considering these developing nations are using our soybeans as their factory farmed animal feed. China imports 90% of their soybeans just to feed some shitty cattle.
Cut out the government subsides for growing corn and soy and watch the world beef market hit its actual cost to produce.

>>16582503
Yes, going along with what's been stated above. The price of beef should actually reflect the price of beef. Not the price the US government sets by subsidizing growing endless amounts of unsustainable cash crops that rely on being dumped with gallons of herbicide, pesticide and fertilizers.

The system as a whole is not fucking set up for long term sustainability, and not even from an environmental way, but in basic economic way. Consumption of meat will have to continue to go down globally. No matter which way you slice it, our current system of endless consuming will eventually have to come to an end.

>>16582516
This too. Our beef exports have grown substantially.

>>16582487
The consumption of beef is not inherently bad and those countries can raise their own cows. They don't have to rely on US exports so one country's increasing consumption need not affect the production or consumption from a different country.

Vegans are all cunts

>>16582542
>Cut out the government subsides for growing corn and soy and watch the world beef market hit its actual cost to produce.
The beef I buy is 100% grass fed and uses no corn or soy or any other kind of feed. It costs USD$9 per pound. Is that the "actual cost" you're referring to? Because that's not really all that bad from where I'm sitting, only about 50% more expensive than decent meat at the grocery store.

>>16579527
I'm wondering the same about lesbians

>>16582537
Over half of foodwaste in the states is due to households throwing away food, only a small percent is due to farm inefficiencies.

>>16582546
They do raise their own cattle which is predominantly fed by subsidized crops grown here in the united states.

>>16582561
>what are volume discounts

>>16582574
Nonexistent because I'm quoting the per-pound price of a single package of ground beef from that farm and they have no order minimums.

>>16579552
>and it is also wrong to murder animals.
By who's moral authority? I thought morality was subjective because religion was just a silly fairy tale? Which is it, veganigger?

>>16582574
Not to mention the "only about 50% more expensive"
You say this like it's no small cost. And if you weren't buying a whole/half/quarter cow you'd be paying substantially more than "only about 50%"
You have to compare apples to apples, so the beef you buy on the shelf compared to ethically sourced meat also bought on the shelf. The price would at the very least be double the factory farmed price.

this still doesn't solve the fact that it is physically impossible for everyone to eat like that given land constraints without also severely reducing the amount of beef they typically consume.

>>16579527
Your grandchildren will never know the taste of real meat

>>16582084
Animals don't feel. They don't have souls. They're automata. Property. Stop anthropomorphizing animals.

>>16582596
>Animals don't feel. They don't have souls. They're automata. Property. Stop anthropomorphizing animals.
Nah, shit take. Substantiate your claim. This is a common cope I see from heavy meat eaters but nothing has ever shown this to be the case.

>>16582429
>No need to mention that 41% of the US's landmass is already used for cattle, about 788 million acres.
This is a lie. A lot of the land that's "used for cattle" is mixed use BLM grazing land. This land allows for cattle to graze and come to weight but also for citizens to enjoy the land by hiking, fishing, hunting, shooting, offroading, and camping on it. You can't do that on a soybean field. Pic related is a picture I took of BLM land being "used for cattle" in Utah. It's also free to use by any person like me who wanted to go offroading or target shooting. This is a far better land use arrangement than having a closed off soy field that I'll be arrested for tresspassing on. Fuck you.

>>16582619
>the literal word of God is cope
Seethe

>>16582591
>And if you weren't buying a whole/half/quarter cow
I. Am. Not.
>I'm quoting the per-pound price of a single package of ground beef from that farm and they have no order minimums.
Pic related. And yes, it says "sale price" but they always have that sale price so it's mainly marketing. They do have bundles which are cheaper, but $9/lb is actually the upper end unless you're buying individual steaks from them.

>>16582635
It's not a lie. only 155 million of those acres are shared lands like that. The rest are privately owned.
>>16582637
Can't use your bible as evidence for anything unless you follow every single word in it to the T.

>>16582640
I noticed your reply after I already posted it. But still, from an average of $4/lb ground beef to $9 is a pretty fucking high jump

>>16582664
>athiest trying to use the scriputre as a weapon
Fuck off.

>>16582084
>>16582619
Not that anon, but why do you think it's impossible to think that factory farmed meat is unethical and also that regenerative pastured farmed meat is ethical? You're right, not everyone can afford to source ethical meat, but that doesn't stop me from boycotting grocery store meat and restaurants in favor of ethical meat because I actually am able to afford it. Also a lot more people can afford ethical meat than they think because they're wasting half their grocery budgets on fast food and restaurants and shitty processed foods in the first place.

>>16582664
>saying that public grazing land "only" makes up 155 million acres as though that's some small number
Okay then.
Here, direct from the government.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/national/landuse/rangepasture/?cid=nrcsdev11_001074
>Range and pasture lands are located in all 50 states of the US. Privately owned range and pasture lands makes up over 27% (528 million acres) of the total acreage of the contiguous 48 states
Private grazing land makes up 27% of the land mass of the contiguous lower 48 states. Almost half of your original claim. Get fucked.

>>16582670
Not even an athiest, fag.

>>16582671
What I'm getting at is that there is the fundamental problem of limited land to sustain the current beef production if we moved 100% away from factory farmed beef. The only way to sustainable animal husbandry is through lower consumption.

>>16582664
>But still, from an average of $4/lb ground beef to $9 is a pretty fucking high jump
Sure, but you can bring those costs down by buying pork and chicken which are cheaper, as well as planning ahead and getting in on bigger bundles. Not to mention that $9/lb isn't even as bad as it seems if you're not eating beef every day and including other foods like eggs, dairy, and vegetables. The problem most people have is they're bad at budgeting and waste lots of money on horrendously expensive food like restaurants.

>>16582701
Factory farming is perfectly sustainable, you just don't like it because someone showed you pictures of a cow that you think looks sad. You're an advocate for policy by feeling instead of policy by reality. You're like a woman.

>>16582701
It just seemed like those two posts in particular were trying to argue that ethically raised meat is just some form of cope or rationalization to push guilt aside, or that it's somehow a hypocritical stance. I just don't see it, there's nothing inherently cruel or wrong about killing animals for food. The cruelty and immorality comes in with how they're raised and treated in life, and that's entirely avoidable so it's not an inconsistent moral stance at all.

>>16582542
>The price of beef should actually reflect the price of beef.
Libertarians are possibly the worst human beings on Earth. The state has an ethical and moral obligation to subsidize food supply so we don't have dustbowl famines.
>hurr durr but muh taxes
Yeah taxes suck. Everyone agrees. That doesn't mean we'd be better off if the government stopped existing.

>>16582710
Remove the $30 billion dollars a year in subsidies farmers get for growing soybeans to feed cattle. Let's see how sustainable factory farming is.

>>16582738
See >>16582733
Get bent, libertardian. Turn in your laptop.

>>16582733
No one on earth requires eating beef at the current levels we do. Plus the conditions that these subsidies are encouraging are going to create another fucking dustbowl and famine, because as it turns out dumping endless streams of herbicide, pesticides and fertilizers on the ground is stripping the land clear of all it's productive topsoil you fucking idiot.

>>16582733
>reduce subsidies
>prices go up
>reduce taxes that paid for the subsidies
>people keep more of their money
>balance achieved
No one ever thinks about the fact that if the government stopped stealing money from people then the price increases could be afforded.

>>16579833
Which one?

>>16580015
Eating meat, even every day, isn't bad for health as long as it's not processed meat.

>>16579552
>Meat is delicious and healthy, and it is also wrong to murder animals.
I'm the biggest animal-lover you'll find, but it's not wrong to murder animals. You can be a vegan and I respect that decision fine, but at our core we are omnivores.
I agree that factory-farming practices and the abuse that animals go through there is horrible and if you want to be vegan as a way to protest that industry then go for it, but there's no harm in killing animals for food.

What I do agree is morally wrong is hunting for sport (unless it's stuff like invasive species or animals whose natural predators have been wiped out like a lot of deer in the states).

Plants are living creatures too. You are just not able to comprehend their suffering when they die. Because they are so different. But they suffer, just like you. Any time you eat a plant, you kill a life. How can you live with yourself?

>>16582084
That's the stupid thing, the rich can buy ethically raised meat, the third world poor can only afford to do traditional free range animal husbandry.
It's the "working poor" that large slabs of cheap meat at lunch and dinner every day who drives factory farms.

>>16579815
Rats have better meat/bone ratio

>>16582121
>8% protein
it's for the fitfags.

>>16579527
i dont think its vegans pushing this shit.

>>16582733
>so we don't have dustbowl famines.
Stop growing demanding crops in shitty land, stop building houses in dry riverbeds, stop building power plants on fault lines.
Stupid games, stupid prizes.

>>16581848
Plants are alive, too. They are living things.

>>16583623
So basically kill everyone in california.
I like where this is going

>>16582473
Getting rid of the state is a pipedream, yea taxation is thief if you go by the litteral definition but that doesn't mean you need to get rid of it.
I do agree taxes could be lower

>>16582106
>we are part of nature too, we cant exclude ourselves from the food chain.
That's a big vegan paradox yea, on one side they would insist we aren't superior to animals bit on the other they what to impose on humans moral obligations that they won't impose on animals

>>16579527
i have never met somebody who became a vegan/vegetarian because they don't like the taste of meat, so your point is retarded

>>16584467
>they what to impose on humans moral obligations that they won't impose on animals
Not always true. There are people actually stupid enough to feed their dogs and cats vegan diets.

>Enjoy meat
>Dislike killing animals, would never do so myself
>Give up eating meat
>Market offers something similar to meat produced without killing livestock
>Eat that instead
Meat has become super reddit anyway. At any given time there's an active discussion of scraggly balding creatures chattering away about their new hecking epic homemade dry rub for their $400/month wagyu subscription box.

>>16582637
>some guy write a book 2000 years ago
>it's the world of God, trust me bro
Believe in what entity you want but any ""holy"" book is a fucking scam, written and rewritten to fit the agenda of whoever did the work. You're being cucked by millenia of dead people

>>16584488
>similar to meat
No, it's absolutely nothing like meat. Not in taste, not in texture, not in nutrition. It's fucking industrial slop.

>>16584522
>why should we keep trying to create new things
>why should we try and make any further progress in the world
These questions anger the vehement meat eater

>>16584467
Not really, you'd be hard fucking pressed to find a vegan who'd choose to starve to death rather than eat an animal, or who would choose to save a lamb over a child. They simply think that animals deserve to avoid being hurt by us, and we have the means to avoid hurting them.

>>16584538
> don't want to eat meat
> eat simulated meat

Bye Felicia...

>>16584544
>doesn't want to drink his mom's breast milk all his life
>drinks cows milk
(????)

>>16584538
It's fine to try creating new things, it's fine to make progress. I'm just telling you that this particular new thing and this particular bit of progress is a failure and I'd rather drink sewer run-off than eat this trash. It has nothing to do with veganism or carnivorism, it's just that THIS SPECIFIC PRODUCT is utter fucking garbage.

>>16584551
I'm so wowed by your intense masculinity of only eating real meat.
Fags like you would continue to bitch even if the product was grown at the atomic scale to be 100% identical to the original piece of meat.

>>16582670
>NOOOOO NOT MY HECKIN SACRED JEWISH FAIRYTALES

>>16584546
> implying I drink milk

You know dairy is bad for you, right?

>>16584572
Did you miss the part where I said that it's NOT about veganism? Eat a plant-based diet, eat vegetarian, eat vegan, why should I care? I can't criticize a shit product that sucks without it being some sort of grandstanding display of masculinity? Eat whole foods, vegetable or otherwise, not industrial waste. Processed meats are just as shitty, fuck that shit, too.

this shit is fucking expensive

>>16584582
here's your you. Your points are almost as worthless as you are as a person.

>>16584582
Is not

>>16584597
OH and there's the ad hominem. Go drink your shitty fat and hormone water, fucking faggot.

> doesn't refute or attempt to refute claim

>>16584609
You made no claims. You just angerly shit your pants about how you think a product is bad because your worldly palate has only experienced dino nuggies from walmart.

And you think reiterating the shitty point op made >>16584544, which has also been refuted 10000 times in this thread is making a claim? Vegans don't eat meat because of their issues with modern animal farming practices, not because they don't like meat you gigantic dumbass

>>16584623
I made the claim it was bad for you, and you did a picrel. Try harder.

oh my days are people arguing on 4chan again

>>16579572
>hunting and killing animals in the wild is much different than the industrial feedlots with animals stacked on top of each other standing in their own shit waiting to be slaughtered
Bullshit. They get eaten alive out there, or eaten partially and then left to die slowly for a bit, or they get parasites slowly consume their brain.

Nature sucks, we're just doing our part. Hope the robots take over soon and just eliminate all higher lifeforms.

>>16584639
>I made the claim it was bad for you, and you did a picrel. Try harder.
Which ingredient here is scary to you?
Which one is industrial slop?
Do you know how food and their respective ingredients are made?

>>16584662
MILK. MILK MILK MILK MILK MILK you stupid fucking shit, I never said anything about your fake plant meat, I said MILK was bad for you, fuck sake, kys for having zero reading comprehension.

>>16584687
Naw bitch, we're going back to your initial tantrum here, >>16584522 and >>16584544
defend those "points"
my rebuttable with milk was only pushing back against the retarded shit you were saying.
I don't gaf about milk, I don't even drink it.

>>16584662
the quality of plant protein is typically below that of animal protein and i don't think refined vegetable oils are too healthy either

>>16584701
>>16584522 isn't me, the other one is. I have never tried that shit, nor will I. I eat meat, idgaf what you try to push off on me. If you fool me with a blind test, good for you. Besides, where I'm at, real meat is less expensive than that crap anyhow.

>>16584662
>Which one is industrial slop?
Canola oil, extracts, concentrates.

>>16584710
Those are the only downsides I can find to it too. At least they moved away from the hexane-refined oils and protein isolates. I'm sure they'll figure something out about the refined seed oil.

>>16584712
> isn't me, the other one is. I have never tried that shit, nor will I. I eat meat, idgaf what you try to push off on me. If you fool me with a blind test, good for you. Besides, where I'm at, real meat is less expensive than that crap anyhow.
oh, okay, so we're just confirming you're here to sperg out about what vegans choose to do with their diets and contribute absolutely nothing of value to this thread or likely the world. You eat meat, great job, you get to look down on all those vegans from your mighty throne of pure masculinity.

>>16579577
>Why? I get being against the living conditions of Auchwitz raised humans but what's the problem with killing humans? They'll die anyway, by getting killed by another human, of old age or of sickness, all of which are more painful by a swift execution by an animal.

>>16585054
Why do you think human ethics fully apply to animals?

>>16579527
A lot of people find it hard to go vegan because they miss the taste of meat. To be honest, I wish vegan cuisine would just get more creative and make unique and interesting dishes that are savory and flavorful without trying to trick you into thinking it's meat. I myself am trying to scale back my meat consumption and transition to a mediterranean diet by the time I'm 40 and since I don't plan on cutting out meat entirely I'd like more options that are more diverse than just meat-but-not.

>>16582106

>>16579527
Other animals and insects literally torture their prey. Imagine thinking animals raised for slaughter have a worse life.

>>16582751
>one failed harvest
>whoops famine
Fuck off to Rapture, libertard.

>>16584097
I'm sure there's crops that'll grow and housing forms that'll work, but throwing money, water and concrete at making a square peg fit a triangular hole, instead of just say "three corners is what works here".

>>16582748
>requires
Fuck off, commie.