/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Here’s another angle, and a life hack. If you don’t have a bread knife a box cutter somehow works incredibly.

I baked a ciabatta loaf
Did 4 cuts this time and it turned out pretty good
Eating mine with leftover beef bourguignon

How do I into sourdough? I've tried making the starter from all purpose flour, bread flour, a mix of those two, whole wheat flour, all of them just don't seem to rise much and the bread comes out pretty flat instead of puffing up. How can I cause it to rise more?

has you guys ever made focaccia with brine? like you shape the dough, let it rise, press dents into it, oil it, and cover it in brine before you bake it? like that Salt Fat Acid Heat documentary showed. is it better?

>>16503429
Noice, got a recipe for that beef? Been meaning to make some stews but I need a pot/slowcooker.
>>16503434
Here’s my starter from today. It’s gone a little flat since I haven’t fed it since making the loaf in OP. You can use another trick here, my starter is only 4 days old so not perfectly mature. I like to throw a little active dry yeast and a teaspoon of vinegar into the mix, since yeast likes low Ph. I also avoid doing too many folds for more holes. It’s counterintuitive but my sourdoughs don’t take long and there’s barely any fiddling. I just mixed the dough in a Tupperware with a spoon, stretching it until it can be picked up in one piece with the spoon. I then oiled it and let rise in the Tupperware for an hour, returned and did only a few turns of stretching and folding to get a ball that’s got some structure, returned it to the oiled Tupperware and waited another hour before sliding it onto baking paper and baking. In total it takes only 3 hours and minimal folding. Doesn’t get you massive holes, but that’s fine since I still want to use the bread for sandwiches.
>>16503438
Thanks for raising that question, that’s my next experiment. Also salt fat acid heat is based.

>>16503434
This was my entire setup today. Just one Tupperware container and two extra tablespoons of oil. No linen towels, no banneton, and you only need to clean one container and one metal spoon. I also scored the loaf with a box cutter instead of a razor.

I don't bake because I'm male

>>16503506
>being THAT insecure about doing something
>especially something completely innocuous like baking
>thinking you're manly for it
Sorry, sir, please take your absolute patheticness somewhere else.

I've been experimenting with whole wheat doughs, is it normal for them to be extremely sticky and hard to work with?

>>16503866
Rye, yes. Very sticky. Most others not so much. But stickier than generic flour.

Why don't people make sourdough in loaf tins?

Who the fuck wants a round bread?

>>16503270
Man I had enough with bread, maybe I am just cursed to be never bake a proper one.

>>16503438
I do it this way it works amazing. Perfect, even spread of salt and you can mix in herbs and garlic and shit

>>16503270
Best thread in the catalogue.

>>16503962
That's really nothing to brag about.

>>16503270
baked this almost a week ago, but I have my oven preheating right now ready to bake again. If you never see a photo of that loaf it's because the crumb was not good enough. This loaf was 30% wholewheat at 85% hydration, sourdough obviously, since baking with regular jew yeast is pleb shit.

>>16503506
Baking is a male occupation. A woman playing at being a man like you wouldn't get it.

>>16504290
Looks incredible, anon.

this is semi-related to baking
but i just figured out that if you churn creme fraiche (the high fat version) you get buttermilk and cultured butter.
this fact actually blew my mind
also the fact that making buttermilk at home seems so easy that there should be literally no reason to ever buy it.
just buy cream and make all products yourself

>>16503506
I only let my wife bake cookies around Christmas. That's it, she has no purpose in there but to fuck my shit up and make a mess.

>>16503873
>love rye
>don't love brown sticky shit all over my hands and kitchen when I try to bake rye
Wish they made silicon gloves that aren't oven mitts, it's doesn't seem to stick as much to it.

>>16504793
It's not that bad. Mix it in the machine and, after rest, handle it with a lot of flour cover (dough and knead surface). It's fine.

>>16504775
Holy shit I’ve never even thought of churning creme fraiche. Now do you do it, anon? By hand, or with some machine? All I can think of is using an ice-cream machine.

>>16504923
stand mixer with a whisk attachment or paddle

>>16504290
baked this today, so I guess I can get fairly open crumbs pretty consistently now. This is 85% hydration but only 15% wholewheat since I ran out. Has a hint of sourness and smells of fruit and wine since I've switched to a low hydration starter.

I'm going to make pumpernickel

>>16504923
Just use whatever you use to whip cream with, a whisk or one of picrel.
Just continue whipping it until you get butter.
Make sure to get the high fat creme fraiche (like 30% or higher the better).

>>16505284
making creme fraiches is actually really easy and cheap to do. All you need is some whipping cream which is 30%+ fat, and a milk product with live cultures. I use kefir but I'm sure cultured yogurt or buttermilk would work as well. In a sterilized mason jar (I just use the dishwasher to sterilize) add a tablespoon of your kefir and then add the whipping cream and mix thoroughly and seal. Afterwards just leave it someplace warm or if you have a sous vide machine heat in a water bath at 43C for 3 hours. You can do other temps depending on texture preference, lower temps give you thinner creme fraiche. You can't go over 45C since you'll kill the bacteria, and at the lowest is 30C.

>>16503438
here is avidice for you. Don't make focaccia, it's so mediocre, the internal crumb structure is ruined when you dimple it. But if you're going to I would not follow that recipe. The results were mediocre at best. Focaccia is the best place to learn how to deal with ultra high hydration dough (88%+). Honestly the brine will most likely just inhibit oven spring. I would just spritz with some water and add some flakey salt, or just up the salt percentage in the dough to 2.5% or 3.

>>16503434
Do you wait for the starter to wake up before adding it to the dough? I keep my starter in the fridge, so I take it out and let it warm up for two hours or so depending on how warm the room is before mixing it into the dough I let autolyze.

>>16506772
that's probably not the best route desu. What you should do is feed your starter during the day then take some of that freshly fed starter and make that into a levain, that will rise overnight. That way in the morning you have some very active pre fermented dough. You don't want your starter to be too acidic and too heavily lactic acid bacteria based. With a fresher levain you reach a peak in yeast activity which is the main driver for gas formation in your dough. (you can change this timing interval but you want ideally at least 7-10 hours for your levain to triple or reach peak activity depending on your starter, another option is to make the levain before going to work and then come home and make the bread).

>>16503349
Looks awesome. I saw your grilled cheese thread earlier but didn't get a good look at the bread.
What's your bread making process look like, Russianon?

Bump

>>16503270
No picks but I did my classic "lazy breadroll with shit in it" recipe:

Sourdough starter, Bread flour, a bit of wholewheat flour, salt + water. Mix, put in some sort of bonus stuff(dried berries, raisins, sometimes nuts, even shredded carrot is underrated).

Proof for five hours, and then put in fridge. Bake breadrolls the next day. Perfect way to just have easy sandwhich/breadroll breakfast for two solid weeks.ym

How do I make my bread last longer than a day before going stale?

>>16506958
Hi anon thanks! I wrote about it in this post >>16503482
>>16509337
Thanks
>>16509388
Well I gotta do this now. Sounds absolutely lovely.

>>16503506
ngmi

I am brown. My ancestors never came across bread.

That shit is like double/triple calories+bloat. Feels bad man.

>>16510221
put it in a bread bag or bread container. Also high hydrations and sourdough prevent staling. I've had bread last a whole week. Sourdough cultures have bacteria that produce dextrans. These sugar molecules help prevent staling, along with the things like acids.

>>16510221
I leave my bread to finish cooling to room temperature on the rack, then store it in a half-open ziplock bag to let excess moisture out. The bag helps keep it from going stale too quickly, and leaving it open helps keep the texture from going squishy and the taste going off due to trapped moisture.

>>16503506
>he thinks baking means making faggot ass cookies
Absolute state of you.

>>16511024

On the 10 Guardian Moon 1185 one of celebs knights by the name of Herbert, who had secretly been on a killing spree throughout the castle, approached Annette late at night via deception (possibly under the guise of helping her to find the killer) before killing and dismembering her body. It was some time before Herbert was identified however he was captured moments before killing the castle chaplain. He was sentenced to the dungeons where he died a few short years later.

>got cocky and decided to switch to a high-hydration recipe
>dough has the consistency of puke after proofing
Back to the little kid's table.

>>16511242
what hydration did you go up to? Also were you hand mixing the dough or machine mixing? If you are making sourdough I would make sure you reach windowpane levels in your gluten before the bread proofs since sourdough is a race to proof and bake before your dough over ferments.

Also if your gluten dissolved it might mean your starter was too acidic and had too much lactic acid producing bacteria (LAB) activity. Make sure your starter has been fed a few times before making a levain or else you could have too much (LAB) which produce lots of proteases which will destroy your gluten. I feed my starter once or twice before making the levain. That way the levain has a low acid load and diminishes the LAB activity somewhat. You'll still get a sour dough but it won't turn into a puddle.

>>16503506
I'm a trans woman and to me, baking is kind of manly :(
You should give it a try anon, it's really satisfying seeing your dough ferment and proof and then expand in the oven and brown
>>16511242
That doesn't sound right to me, do you have a pic?

I want a borodinsky bread with the texture of a wheat bread. I tried this guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aTaG_I1ny0
and I fucked up, it came out gummy. the flavor was good though, I'll try again next monday.

It has taken me far too many tries to get something like this out. I want to get more consistent with my bread, but I'm also getting bored working with medium hydration plain flour water salt recipes. At least this loaf turned out well.

>>16503270
Is baking even /ck/ - food and cooking? Technically it is food, but is it cooking? It's so mindless. Yeah, put the dough in the oven and wait 40 minutes. Wow, you got bread. Not impressed.

>>16511706
Breb looking good, anon.
>>16511709
I’ve never seen this pasta before

>>16511706
Crumbshot.

How do I make bread that don't go flat in high hydration when I put it in the oven? Without using a tin that is. Just knead it much harder and longer to develop a good structure?

Basically I make the dough, put it in a fermentation basket and cold ferment it to the next day. Plop it out on a baking sheet, score it, put it in a pre-heated oven (maximum heat at the start) but then it flattens out regardless if made into a boule or batard. It does rise after like 6 minutes but it's still rather pancaked.

>>16503270
Thanks for making me hungry OP you cunt
Now I want some warm bread with jam but all I have is this old store-bought loaf

>>16511801
How do I get more pockets into the bread? So far, my bread results have almost always been good, but no air pockets.

>>16512538
Enough kneading for strong gluten development.
Sufficient fermentation.
Gentler handling when shaping.
Higher hydration.
Proper scoring.
Loads of initial heat in the oven, preferably with some steam.

>>16512882
Meant for:
>>16512738

>>16512538
you maybe be over fermenting your dough and that's why it pancakes. High hydration doughs ferment faster.

Another reason is that you just didn't build enough tension during the bulk and shaping. You need to think bread as a bag with balloons inside it.

Gluten formation alone will not make a bread stay stiff. If you've ever made a high hydration dough like 85% it will come out of the mixer very slack. It will pass the windowpane test (meaning it's got complete gluten formation) but won't be able to hold itself up. When you fold the dough over itself you build that outer skin (bag) and you have the different air pockets (balloons) stacked on each other inside that bag. That is why after a few sets of folds when the dough has started gas production the dough will hold its shape.

The internal balloons are your air pockets. If you took a bag and filled it with empty balloons the bag will be flat. If you filled those balloons to the max the bag would be very taught and stand upright. If you filled the balloons only halfway then there is some give in the bag. Pic related is basically how you can understand bread.

Now when you put your bread in the oven the air in those balloons expand by a huge amount. If your balloons were already filled to the max before you put them in the oven they will burst and then your bread will collapse. Not filled enough and the bread doesn't have enough gas to expand and your bread is dense. If you proof it just right the bread will expand and not overburst. The tension of balloons will hold together.

Scoring allow those balloons to expand greater than the bag will expand on it's own, but if you score it too much all that tension of the bag will be lost. That is also why or certain high hydration breads like ciabatta don't need scoring since the outer skin is more than capable of expanding sufficiently.

>>16513226
I am just regurgitating what is said in this book, which costs money but if anyone wants it I could share a google drive link.

Why does my breads shrivel after cooling?

>>16513254
I'm the anon you replied to, I'd love to read some of that if you have a link. Thank you for a thorough reply. I've had my suspicion of something similar but inconsistent results are hard to draw good conclusions from.

>>16513434
My guess would be too thin of a crust and high hydration. At least in my experience.

>>16503506
>I don't bake because I'm male who doesn't know how to get pussy

>>16513434
Many things contribute to that, like too much hydration, under-kneading, over-proofing, but 9 times out of 10, I'd say is too much yeast.

>>16505145
how much protein does your flour have?
i'm already struggling with 75% hydration. my dough always flattens when i invert it out of the proofing basket. best i can get is 11% protein wheat flour and 12% whole wheat

>>16513254
Seconding link request

>>16512738
Well...you could make pitas and have the giga pocket

>>16503438
r8 my focaccia.

I have only attempted to bake sourdough a few times and it was okay but not great.
What is the easiest bread to bake for a total beginner? Imagine I’ve never baked shit before. What should I attempt? I have a bunch of flour that I should use. If nobody has a good answer I’ll probably just start making tortillas like the beaner I am.

>>16513563
I'm using Canadian all purpose unbleached flour. Unbleached really makes the difference I've noticed. It's 12% protein btw. But I can get all the way to 90% hydration when making standing loaves. If I double hydrate the dough(form a dough to full gluten development and then add water to the dough and mix it more until it's incorporated again.) I can get all the way to 105% hydration

>>16513919
Looking good, anon. Now let’s see the inside.

>>16513929
Burger buns aren’t that hard, they’re lower hydration than sourdough so they’re easy to work with.
>>16514037
>105% hydration
I kneel

>>16514045
That's all that's left after the family got to it.

>>16514097
Looks real good anon

Any suggestions of how to add rye to a high hydration dough using bread flour?

>>16515069
I like to simply make the starter 100% rye and add like 20% of total flour weight of it.

>>16514037
At what hydration starting % should you start adding water in small batches to whatever goal you have? Would there be a point to start at 60% and then mix it until reaching "regular" 75% or is there no real gain until over 80%?

Also, any tips to see "full gluten development" other than windowpaning it?

>>16515069
You can just add anything to just about any bread dough and simply adjust water a little bit. It's not that hard.

>>16515468
I'm not trying to do sourdough which is a problem since 95% of rye recipes I find online are all sourdough...

>>16515475
I don't see any reason to not simply add it like anon said above even if using regular yeast. Anything in particular you're worried about?
In general I'd add very little yeast and just let it ferment longer than normal.

>>16515475
You CAN use vinegar, instead of sourdough, but it's a hit and miss thing for me. It worked twice and didn't one time.

>>16515482
Well I search online and websites say to use it for recipes like pancakes and cupcakes, that the qualities of rye flour aren't good for bread, that they don't have enough gluten, that they absorb more water than a normal flour, I figure that adding rye would adjust the hydration ratio a bit but I'm not sure by how much, etc
>>16515485
Why would you use vinegar?

>>16515498
>Why would you use vinegar?
Why not?

Sourdough boule from earlier this week

>>16515972

Whole thing

>>16513254
>>16513624
>>16513464

https://drive.google.com/file/d/170-9fuvvJQcVOUqmcFT71el0YlTADgbS/view?usp=sharing

here is the link to the google drive. Share it with whoever you want. There really isn't another book around like this so the information is very useful.

>>16515475
the problem is that without a sourdough starter there won't be anything to inhibit the amylase enzymes. Rye is rich in amylase enzymes which does make fermentation really fast, but too much conversion of starches to sugars and you'll get a gummy mess. The acids and proteases produced by the starter decrease amylase activity.

>>16515472
for your flour I would do an initial hydration to whatever makes a strong dough that is still slightly extensible. Granted I do this all in a stand mixer, it's quite difficult and can be scary doing this by hand (the dough will unravel when you add the water and then come back together, you just have to keep kneading). So if 75% is too soupy go for 70% initially. Then I add maybe 20ml of water at a time, mix it vigorously until the gluten is formed and then I keep repeating the process until I reach my desired hydration. This technique is called Bassiange in the baking world.

Also the only real ways that you can tell gluten formation is the windowpane and how sticky the dough is. Properly formed gluten won't be as sticky. Get a spoon and touch a shaggy unformed dough and it will stick to it. Once the gluten has formed the dough won't be so sticky. Also just from experience, you will see the shine to the dough and you will know it's getting ready, but the most foolproof method is the windowpane test. Just make sure you have wet hands when you perform the test, and the the dough has relaxed so it won't tear just due to soo much tension, so do the test before you're going to perform a set of folds.

>>16503506
I'm pretty sure most professional bakers/chefs throughout time have been male.

When making a levain, should I feed the starter first? The recipe says to use "mature" starter (i.e. at the top of its peak 5-6 hours after feeding), but it feels wrong, since I'm going to be giving it even more flour with the levain.

anybody ever make schwarzbrot

>>16515972
looks good anon, but you might be on the edge of under proofed. This looks very close to what someone would call a "fools cumb"+.

I did some no-knead stuff in my large dutch oven and that turned out quite great.
what's the next level from that?

>>16516298
Oh, and NO sourdough stuff.
If I want to eat something sour, I'll eat something sour. No need to fuck up my bread.

>>16516298
Pizza dough, I guess

>>16516188
That's not Schwarzbrot.

>>16516150
This is great, will definitely read. Thank you.

>>16516172
Good stuff, thanks.
>Granted I do this all in a stand mixer, it's quite difficult and can be scary doing this by hand (the dough will unravel when you add the water and then come back together, you just have to keep kneading
I have it stuck in my mind that I will ruin the gluten strands if I keep kneading and adding fluids over and over. Am I just being silly? Can I mangle and separate clumps of dough apart and back together without worry in the mixing stage? I don't mean tearing them apart but simply shoving my hands and fingers around the dough to hydrate all the parts evenly. When wet it likes to break apart somewhat during this.

>>16516185
I'm sure you can forego feeding it but it will take a lot longer as feeding it when around 100% hydration separately is probably a more effective way for it to mature quicker in a better environment. When fully mature it'll be much better at fermenting the dough. At least, that's how I see it but don't quote me on that.

>>16516337
>Oh, and NO sourdough stuff.
I'm not telling you what to do but I can't tell if any of my sourdough breads are being sour at all. Other than when I fuck up and let it overproof to hell so it takes on a purpleish crumb. I know someone that doesn't like anything sourdough so I might just be bad at noticing the difference.

>>16503506
fantastic effort to (you)s ratio

>>16516337
Sourdough does not mean sour bread.

>>16511031
Lysidike took her ability to read his mind as a matter of course, but his converse power was still unsettling. Time was only Anaximander ever gleaned what she thought with any proficiency; but he deduced her nature from what his oily smarts told him was the nature of a person, and only sardonically hinted at his mastery. Tlexictli didn’t even have to puzzle to catch her straight away, so the privacy she took for a metaphysical given in her youth broke up, and she felt her disagreements with her husband as dumb sensory pressures, like heat or cold. Their cross-purposes weren’t any easier for their transparency, but there was nothing to worry over – they’d conducted business together before becoming sentimental.

I've started making naan breadish pita bread type tortillas recently, for sandwiches.
It's the only bread I can make successfully lol.

>>16503349
>a knife works like a knife somehow
gee anon, thanks!

>>16514097
not gonna lie i would dip that in spaghetti so bad

Can I put protein powder in bread dough or is that retarded

uh bro's? I dont feel so good

>>16517312
Beautiful

>>16517312
first time making legit bread. felt bad after this MEAT head insulted my other loaf

>>16517616
cope with me BOYS. homemade paneer tikka masala and salsa
.
.
jk, both from packages. WALA

>>16517721
Dude you can’t eat diarrhea just because you use a bread

>>16517748
>hands typed this

I now have ringworm which is athletes foot but on my hands. Do I stop kneading bread or scooping flour into my starter with my hands? Is the fungus gonna infect and compete with the yeast and fuck up my bread? Luckily I don't bake for anyone but myself.

>>16517721
You could have bought some naan or pita bread.

>>16516190
call me a fool then because I'd cumb all over that bread

>>16516337
T. Drank the big yeast koolaid

It's okay anon maybe one day you'll see past the lies of the yeast Jews

Question 1: Can overkneading bread make it tough?

Question 2: Does it matter at what stage of the process does one add the fat? I know it's often recommended that fat is added after a knead, but does it REALLY matter or is it a superstition?

Thanks.

xoxo

My first ever sourdough. I'll cut it open when my family wakes up.

>>16520642
If you killed them in their sleep you'd have all the bread for yourself.

>>16520647
a compelling proposition

>>16520642

>>16503270
i can't eat bread

>>16520791
What did you do with their bodies

>>16520795
You'll find out in the next chili thread

Is there a flavor difference in wheat starter vs rye starter

>>16516861
All too easy

>>16522152
the flavor is in your local bacteria, rye flour will ferment faster though

oi oi oi

any yeast dough breakfast items that can be made and frozen unbaked to be baked in the morning

>>16522625
All pastries

>>16522668
cmon bro you have to spoonfeed me
i just bough the first ever pack of yeast to enter this house and nobody else even wants to attempt to use it

>>16522674
You should start with just making a nice loaf of regular bread. Make it low hydration so you can knead it easier, since I assume you don't have a mixer. After you've made a few loaves I'll give you pasty recommendations.

I don't bake because I have trypophobia

>>16511709
half of this board is discussing fast food or alcohol.