/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>16496753
>75% fat
I'm almost definite that the actual keto diet (for epileptics) is 70%. Beyond that all the facebook mom recipes for fat bombs and other retarded things have really confused me. Low carb by itself isn't a bad idea but there is no reason at all to have the protein macros so low. Also last I checked isn't yogurt more protein heavy than fat?

That being said the real deal diet is the low oxalate one.

>>16496753
pufa-tastic and anti-oxidative-glycolysis-pilled
enjoy ur endocrine, thyroidal, and hepatorenal problems

It makes evil "people" angry

>>16496753
kinda dumb 2bh

>>16496774
>low oxalate one
Oxalates confuse the fuck out of me. The most nutritiously dense foods have a high/medium amount of them. And researching oxalates is hard as shit because all the charts and stats are different. Some say broccoli is high in oxalates, some say medium. It's all inconsistent.

>>16496896
broscience is not real science

>>16496753
>no chicken

why?

>>16496774
>>16496896
unless you have chronic kidney stones there's no reason to care about oxalates

>>16496918
Oxalates is the complete opposite of broscience. It's backed by actual data done from tons of research and it's pretty inconsistent that they're a real problem. Even ketotards who worship spinach are wary of oxalates.

>>16496947
It's not just kidney stones, oxalates inhibit your nutrient absorption. Pretty much ruining the nutritional value of your meal. Also foods with oxalates tend to have other stuff that inhibit absorption even more.

>>16496918
Oxalates is the complete opposite of broscience. It's backed by actual data done from tons of research over decades and it's pretty consistent that they're a real problem. Even ketotards who worship spinach are wary of oxalates.

>>16496947
It's not just kidney stones, oxalates inhibit your nutrient absorption. Pretty much ruining the nutritional value of your meal. Also foods with oxalates tend to have other stuff that inhibit absorption even more.

>>16496947
and even then the reason people get kidney stones is usually because they are deficient in some vitamins
>>16497094
I feel like we had this thread before

I usually default to keto because carbs leave me hungry again fast and lethargic in the morning while a nice fatty meat+cheese+something green meal fills me up for the whole day. Of course there's bread, pasta, booze, cake and fruits which I don't want to miss out on, so I usually toss in a day or two of normal food now and then.

>thought on X?
Just do whatever.
Protein should never be counted (it gets converted to glucose in rather roundabout way over 3--many hours only if you eat more than your body requires, for me, 69kg, 11--13% bodyfat, it's 65-75g/24h)
carbs should alsno not be any percent. there is only fat for energy

whatever. There is no good faith discussion between informed individuals anwhere on 4chan.

Thoughts on X?
Though on throat cancer?
Ffs. I hate humanity.

>>16496753
>Thoughts on the bald diet?
How about instead of a meme diet that you won't stick to in the long term, you learn about MICROS as well as macros. I've seen keetards afraid of eating salad because muh tomatoes and carrots are gonna throw my fat-yet-malnourished body out of ketosis!
Gonna exercise today? Have good carbs, such as oatmeal and fruit. Gonna be a lazy day? Skip a meal and eat less carbs.
No amount of vegetables is bad (inb4 someone says how an unreasonable amount of X will turn your skin purple and give you tumors).
A healthy diet is one that makes sense, not one that has these arbitrary rules. Hence: meme diets. Eat what your body needs, both long-term and short-term.
Keto is horrible long-term, as are all meme diets.

>>16497791
meat fish and animal foods have everything you need in highest concentration.

>>16498511
The balding ketard said, his energy levels low and his muscles maxed out at half his genetic maximum.

>>16498531
exercise performance is higher on keto once you are adapted Phinney showed this in the 70s

>>16498548
Ah yes, which is why every elite athlete is keto. Oh wait...
Keep on coping like the classic Redditor with your biased, low-sample-size studies (studies != science).

>>16498553
$0.5 has been put in your account from pepsico

>>16498573
>He said, not reading the post he originally replied to
At no point did I ever say that consuming 41 grams of refined sugar was good for you. I specifically said healthy carbs on days of exercise, "such as oatmeal and fruit."
Have fun with your receding hairline and large gut, ketofag.

>>16498583
those are fine if you're not eating loads of sugar and you are the minority of people who are still insulin sensitive but we're living with the most diabetic insulin resistant population of humans that has ever existed

>>16498583
my hair has never felt or looked better so cope baldnigger

>>16496753
heart disease
>>16496774
>>16496896
I boil my tortoise's kale so it'll lose most of the oxalates.
>>16496783
based
>>16497766
>Protein should never be counted
You are gonna kill people with chronic kidney disease with your advise.
>>16498553
Based

>>16498605
>heart disease
retard there was never any good evidence of saturated fat causing heart disease in fact keto diets improve heart disease risk factors more than a "prudent" diet

>>16498620
I believe you, since no (real) scientist studying keto has ever confirmed this. BUT, keto statisticians can make this work, so it must be true.
Fuck carbs guys, amiright? Who else loves the fact that the human body evolved to become as healthy as possible without anything but bison meat. Fucking dank, bros.
Retard.

>>16498625
"A continuous care treatment including nutritional ketosis in patients with T2D improved most biomarkers of CVD risk after 1 year. The increase in LDL-cholesterol appeared limited to the large LDL subfraction. LDL particle size increased, total LDL-P and ApoB were unchanged, and inflammation and blood pressure decreased."

p.s. you're still a retard and a nigger

>>16498620
https://sci-hub.st/10.1002/14651858.cd011737

>>16498635
"no effects on the risk of dying. The review found no clear health benefits of replacing saturated fats "

>>16498605
boiling doesn't even eliminate all oxalates. you're basically cucking your nutritional gains by including oxalate foods in your meal.

>>16498651
>The included long-term trials suggested that reducing dietary saturated fat reduced the risk of cardiovascular events by 17% (risk ratio (RR) 0.83; 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.72 to 0.96, 13 comparisons,53,300 participants of whom 8% had a cardiovascular event, I2 65%, GRADE moderate quality of evidence)

>>16498667
>no effects on the risk of dying

>>16498667
>The included long-term trials
I don't even have to look and I will bet my remaining testicle these are dogshit nutritional epi "studies"

>>16498665
>cucking your nutritional gains
No.
>boiling doesn't even eliminate all oxalates
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf048128d
But it reduces them enough.

>>16498675
boil broccoli rabe and subsequently toss with olive oil and butter
consume with steak
???
profit

>>16498651
>>16498671
>>16498673
Better than your broscience cult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uptETdDvDzQ

>NO ADVANTAGE

>>16498681
>no effects on the risk of dying

>>16498681
"broscience" except it reverse diabetes. try again nigger

>NO DIFFERENCE

Bros, I did it before for a trial period of sorts and lost almost 20 pounds. I plan on going on until I'm at 180 pounds or less this time. I just want to know in advance, since I am a slave to Dr.Pepper, is the sugar free version keto/permissible in small qualities? I made a promise to another 2 keto anons, so I am going to be keto no matter what, but if I can indulge in an occasional glass of Dr.Pepper, it'd be a great crutch.

>>16498710
diet is fine but beware some keto marketed shit contains sweeteners that still impact glycemia and could halt your progress

>>16498700
Nothing reverses dm2, idiot.
You just control it.

>>16498634
Thanks for the long-term research--
Oh fuck, sorry. Try again.
Man,. I hate how the most elite athletes in the word just love the fact that carbs give them energy to get their body to perform what they know it can do at its max level.

>>16498692

>>16498722
wrong again retard. this is a niggerbrain on grain industry propoganda

>50% reversal of diabetes
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31231311/

>>16498726
literally just go to the full text retard
>no effect on risk of dying

>>16498705
>>NO DIFFERENCE
wow almost like there's an adaptation period when you flip what fuel your body is mainly using. god you're a retard. in fact if you look at longer studies you find lower carb diets increase energy expenditure

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33274750/

>>16498746
>less cardiovascular disease doesn't improve your life
Well yeah, there is no risk of dying in a short period.
Unless you are a child with epilepsy.
https://www.pedneur.com/article/S0887-8994(08)00399-8/fulltext
>>16498756
WOW it's almost like you are more prone to diabetes during the adaptation period
It's almost like diabetes comes from carbohydrate intolerance and insulin resistance instead of blood markers.
God, you are stupid.
>if you look at longer studies you find lower carb diets increase energy expenditure
So, why is there no benefit, no difference compared to balanced diets with the same calories?
>>16498731
The word reversal is the propaganda.
Remission is the real word.
If the diabetic foot is cut or they get stage 4 chronic kidney disease, they won't "reverse" shit but there can be a remission.
Everyone knows dm2 has no cure but they use the word reversal to give people hope.
Checked the endocrinology bible and there's mention of T1DM reversal with transplants, but no mention of T2DM reversal. It does mention remission.

>>16498863
>Remission is the real word.
No its not they clearly define what they mean and list the rates of both reversal and remission.

>>16498863
>https://www.pedneur.com/article/S0887-8994(08)00399-8/fulltext
Most of these kids would already be dead without having gone on a ketogenic diet. I'm not even sure what you're implying here. Ketogenic diets are the most effective pharmacological intervention to pediatric epilepsy but gets left to the wayside in favor of less effective more profitable drugs.

>>16498863
>So, why is there no benefit, no difference compared to balanced diets with the same calories?
There is I posted link but you didn't look or can't read
"Lower-carbohydrate diets transiently reduce TEE, with a larger increase after ∼2.5 wk."

>>16498863
p.s. go chop your foot off and gouge your eyes out nigger

>>16498863
"The proportion of participants meeting the defined criteria for diabetes reversal at 2 years increased to 53.5% from baseline in the CCI group, whereas no change was observed in the UC group."

"Despite a mean and median of 8.4 and 7 years since diagnosis among CCI participants, the remission rate was higher than the Look AHEAD trial where its participants had a median of 5 years (4) since diabetes diagnosis."

Have you killed yourself yet? Because what you're doing is killing people.

>>16498882
What's that definition?
>>16498888
Diets aren't pharmacological.
>>16498894
Sorry for that, I'm reading other studies and fragments of bibles.
That could be an advantage if you can't reduce enough calories but is there a way to calculate it? I'm not saying nutrition is a exact science but in extremely low calorie diets it could be a disadvantage.
>>16498900
I'll chop your mother and force-feed you with her meat, eunuch.
>>16498930
Their criteria of "diabetes reversal", something that isn't even standardized, thus propaganda
>>16498930
The Look AHEAD trail used a low fat diet, not a balanced diet, retard. Compared to balanced diets with the same calories, they achieve similar results, as stated in Krause.
No but you should consider it. I'm not killing shit as I don't give advice, unlike you.

It's pretty based but you get through so much meat which means a lot of trips to the store and cooking which is not always ideal when you're juggling a full-time job at the same time. It's also a bitch to get into ketosis and accidentally eating too many carbs will make you feel like shit for a couple of days

It's a bit of a pain to keep up with when you're not a neet.

>>16498974
"There was also resolution of diabetes (reversal, 53.5%; remission, 17.6%)...When T2D care directed at disease reversal is successful, this includes achievement of restored metabolic health, glycemic control with reduced dependence on medication, and in some cases disease remission...A majority of the CCI participants (53.5%) met criteria for diabetes reversal at 2 years while 17.6% achieved diabetes remission (i.e., glycemic control without medication use) based on intent-to-treat with multiple imputation. The percentage of all CCI enrollees (N = 262) with verified reversal and remission requiring both completion of 2 years of the trial and an obtained laboratory value for HbA1c were 37.8 and 14.9%, respectively. CCI diabetes reversal exceeds remission as prescriptions for metformin"

Congrats the diabetes epidemic has just been solved.

>>16498974
>not a balanced diet, retard.
Show me a "balanced" diet trial showing diabetes reversal or remission. I'll wait faggot...

>>16498974
>That could be an advantage if you can't reduce enough calories
The meta analysis looked at isocaloric diets of varying carbohydrate content and found >>16498894 more energy expenditure with lower carbohydrate content AFTER the adaptation phase. The shorter trials showed the reverse, this is why we need longer trials.

>>16498997
Sure, tell the WHO.
https://www.who.int/news-room/events/detail/2021/04/14/default-calendar/global-diabetes-summit
>>16499003
I don't believe it exists but let me see.
>>16499012
>The shorter trials showed the reverse, this is why we need longer trials.
True, true. Why are they so hard to find?
High cost? Low adherence to diet?
I think I've only seen a 2 years study.
You'll think it would be easier with all those advocates.

>>16499033
>True, true. Why are they so hard to find?
Have you missed the past half century of demonizing animal foods because of cholesterol and saturated fats. Of course a diet that allowed these to be eaten ad libitum would be anathema.
>>16499033
>High cost? Low adherence to diet?
Yes and maybe. Doing any quality, long term nutrition study will be exorbitantly expensive. The NIH at the moment seems to be moving in the opposite direction and funding more shorter trials. As far as adherence I'd bet its better than conventional diets. Most trials I've seen get adherence levels anywhere from 60-90 percent. The question is how much of that is environmental pressures i.e. everybody around you constantly eating loads of carbs and all food ads pushing high sugar high carb foods or some other possibility like some people just can't tolerate a high fat diet for whatever reason.

>>16499064
Well yeah but that didn't stop vegans from releasing their studies.
>The NIH at the moment seems to be moving in the opposite direction and funding more shorter trials.
Disgusting.
> The question is how much of that is environmental pressures
Well, anecdotally eating a higher amount of sweet food or fat makes me vomit. Fatless meat doesn't, I could eat it in excess without short term problems. I haven't observed such behavior in other people but it would be interesting to differentiate tolerance from pressure.
>>16499003
Most comparisons were carb vs fat.
The closest thing I found to a balanced diet was the Mediterranean diet.
It was really hard, as most studies were really old but here's this one.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/4/1345/htm
They are pretty much the same at short term, except on insulin clearance, even though the balanced diet actually had a little more calories.
On the long term side
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa0708681
https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/43/11/2812
We see the initial higher weight loss in the keto diet just as Krause says, water weight, then it suddenly becomes the same as the mediterranian diet, everything else is pretty much the same. Keto had better hdl, med had better ldl.
>Among the 36 subjects with diabetes, changes in fasting plasma glucose and insulin levels were more favorable among those assigned to the Mediterranean diet than among those assigned to the low-fat diet (P<0.001 for the interaction among diabetes and Mediterranean diet and time
The second study says keto's insulin was better.
So yeah, I would say they are pretty much the same plus those exceptions.

>>16496753
meme diet

>>16496896
It's meme shit, stop listening to these retards. You're going to fuck your health up. Just amerilards who listen to Joe Rogan get on these meme shit diets.

>>16496918
This.

>>16499301
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/6/2086/pdf This one contains the word remission and is somewhat balanced, kind of low on fat and high in protein, although it's weird they use a liquid diet.

>>16499314
A "meme" diet that cures diabetes. Also produces significant weight loss for most. Effective at treating epilepsy. Can improve cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's patients. Improves CVD risk factors. Maybe even slows growth of some cancers.

>>16499333
LOL. This is what listening to podcasts does to a mother fucker. WE GOT THE CURE FOR DIABETES EAT LOTS OF FAT AND MEAT!

TRUST ME GRANDMA, SOMEONE ON 4CHAN SAID IT

>>16499341
I could post all the sources for all my claims but we'd be here a while and I'm getting tired. Here's a meta analysis from the few trials that have been done with respect to improved cognition for Alzheimer's patients.
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article-abstract/doi/10.1093/advances/nmaa073/5864685?redirectedFrom=fulltext

>>16499341
Below is type 2 diabetes mellitus reversal of more than 50 percent of a population of hundreds of patients of long time diabetics (notoriously hard to improve)
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.00348/full

>>16496753
Idk i do about 40% protein 60% fat.

>>16499333
Nothing cures dm2, for now.
Once a type 2 diabetic, always a diabetic, for now.
The diet in itself doesn't produce the weight loss, it's eating less. Try eating double with the same keto diet and you'll get fat. It's effective for epilepsy and might be for alzheimer but it's not confirmed.
Again, it improves CVD in calorie deficit, eat more and there goes your benefit.
Cancer starvation might work on some of them.
If it's so good, why were eskimos diabetics when they used to eat almost no carbs?
https://sci-hub.st/10.2337/diacare.11.9.693
>>16499358
reversal =/= cure

>>16496753
Makes your farts and your private parts stink

>>16499358
>Virta Health Corp

Just had a bowl of pasta and probably have a better body than these keto nuts.

I'm gonna start asking ketofags to post physique.

>>16499413
based /fit/ tourist

>>16499382
At this point there's no helping this people. Keto people are on the same level as Qanons

>virta
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-01-27/as-veterans-affairs-tests-keto-diet-for-diabetic-patients-skeptics-raise-red-flags

https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-diets-overall
BOW TO YOUR KINGS /CK/UCKS

>>16496753
I started at 248 on Memorial Day and am down to 215 so far on keto. No bread no beer no rice no potatoes no noodles. It’s basically a meat and veggie or 2 for dinner and eggs in the AM. Sometimes I’ll have low carb tortillas and a wrap for lunch. I wfh so it’s easier for me I’m sure. Keto is pretty sweet. I feel more energized and don’t have the sugar mood swings you get with lots of carbs. It might not work totally in the long run but it’s helped shrink my stomach and ultimately that’s what you need in the long run is to eat less food and test your body like a car that needs gas nxjnh

>>16496753
I like it, and have done it on and off over the years when I want to lose some weight fast. Some of its adherents are pretty culty, but it does work. The science is pretty clear. It's the second best way to lose weight, second to various forms of fasting.

>>16499448
>>16499460
>The science is pretty clear
The conflict of interest is pretty clear.
>second best
37th*

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/actress-mishti-mukherjee-passes-away-due-to-kidney-failure-reports-cite-keto-diet-to-be-the-reason/articleshow/78474318.cms
oh no no ketosisters, how do we spin this one?

>>16496753

If you eat mostly meat, including organs, avoid grains and anything that has added sugar or is processed, you will be healthier than 99% of people

Meat, especially organs, is the most nutritious food on the planet. The vitamers in plants are not the same as those in meat, they are less bioavailable than those found in plants, and the little that is available is not as effective.

Saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause heart disease. Yes, cholesterol builds up in your arteries, but that's because people do stupid shit like drink alcohol, smoke, and have too much glucose in their bloodstream. So if you don't want cholesterol to clog up your arteries, stop eating garbage and smoking. Also LDL carries cholesterol away from your arteries once the arterial walls have been repaired.

There is 0 evidence that keto causes baldness.

Besides raw meat, keto is the best diet for human health.

>>16499521
Completely false. Total fabrication.

>>16499546
>There is 0 evidence that keto causes baldness
Why is every keto fag bald then?

>>16499570

Read my post above you and you'll have all the evidence you'll need. You will never be obese, have type 2 diabetes, or atherosclerosis if you eat only meat.

>>16499546
>Saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause heart disease.
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/saturated-fats
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7690379/
COPE

>>16499580
eat 6 lbs of meat per day for a year if you are so great

>>16499576

>https://www.americanhairloss.org/men_hair_loss/introduction.html

85% of men are already going bald, so it's not the keto diet causing this problem.

Can you provide even 1 scholarly article showing evidence that a keto diet causes hair loss?

>>16499583
Being a KETO moron is being in a constant state of COPE

>>16499596
Lol, ok baldy.
Here's my source: you being bald as fuck.

>>16499576
https://www.everydayhealth.com/ketogenic-diet/keto-diet-hair-loss-how-to-stop/
OH NO KETOSISTERS
even broscientists dab on us

>>16499583

First link isn't even a study, ignored.

As for the second link:

>Indeed, while increased SFA intake in place of PUFA is unarguably associated with raised LDL-C concentrations, high LDL-C is not a typical feature of MetS.

You didn't even read the second link lol. come back with real evidence.

>>16499603

Once again broscience has been defeated by real science, as the beginning of name calling is the end of the argument, for your opponent has nothing of importance to say.

>>16499592

6lbs of meat a day would be incredibly difficult because of how satiating it is

>>16499609
Let me paraphrase it for you.
>while increased SFA intake in place of PUFA is unarguably associated with raised LDL-C concentrations
Saturated Fatty Acids intake in place of Poliunsaturated Fatty Acids raised LDL
>high LDL-C is not a typical feature of MetS.
Metabolic syndrome has nothing to do with high LDL(it doesn't mean sfa doesn't raise ldl, it means it isn't part of metabolic syndrome)

>>16499606
>>16499596
>>16499583
>>16499512
>>16499440
>>16499351
>>16499314
ITT: a bunch of smoothbrains too silly to realize that anti keto articles and studies are the mega corps of food production shilling to keep you hooked on McDonald’s and steroid pumped msg filled factory farm mass produced low quality food exploiting the stupidity and laziness of the public to keep your hooked on their shitty unhealthy products

>hunt
>fish
>buy from local farmers markets
>grow your own food
>avoid sweets and unnecessary carbs
>do not buy store bread
>do not eat fast food
>do not drink soda
>do not drink bottled water

Stop your reliance on their artificial market and trap that you have to eat this stuff. Keto is basically meat and veggies. You can get 90% of these yourself with minimal effort.

>>16499626

There is nothing wrong with LDL cholesterol, I already explained why it would be an issue. It clogs your arteries because people smoke, drink, and have too much glucose in their bloodstream. HDL removes LDL cholesterol from your arteries once they've been healed. Cholesterol is preventing much worse things from happening.

>>16499627
>>16499580
HELP KETOSISTERS
https://selfhacked.com/blog/carnivore-diet/
WE ARE GETTING RAPED

>>16499382
>If it's so good, why were eskimos diabetics when they used to eat almost no carbs?
keyword being USED TO
>The overall age-adjusted prevalence of diabetes mellitus, 15.7/1000, was lower than the overall United States rate of 24.7/1000. ... ompared with previous reports, the prevalence of diabetes mellitus in Alaskan Eskimos appears to have increased. Diabetes mellitus is no longer a rare condition among Alaska Natives.
what changed? they started eating modern usa diet ie. CARBS.
have fun with your metabolic syndrome you son of a nigger.

>>16499647

>Lists B vitamins and vitamin A as deficiencies on carnivore diet

Wont even bother looking at the rest as I know it's going to be garbage

>>16499636
Inflammation causes atherosclerosis
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33393629/
Guess what causes inflammation?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6922028/

>>16499655

>!7 participants in the study, all of which were obese

Basically useless

>>16499651
the study is from 1988 retarded ketooer brain
eskimos were diabetics before eating carbs
have fun with your bad breath, low energy, kidney stones, atherosclerosis, dyel body, constipation, low bone density, nutrient deficiencies and heart disease, baldie.

>>16499655

Also, atherosclerosis is caused by plaque buildup

>>16499668
inflammation>damaged endothelium>plaque buildup

>>16499647
>>16499652
I get plenty of vitamins from flintstones and eating my greens almost daily and red meat a couple times a week

>>16499667
I actually have more energy being keto. I'm not constipated at all. Salad and meat in fact made my stool softer. Have you ever tried keto? Legit question. You seem really opposed to it. It helps people lose weight quick. It may not be long term sustainable, but its an 'eaters diet'. It allows people to still eat until they're full just not certain foods. This is why it is so popular. I plan on transitioning from keto to a paleo meal where I still only eat stuff that people would have eaten back in the day. My general approach is stay out of the aisle of grocery stores. Go around the exterior. Produce department, meat department, dairy department. Most of the mass produced processed shit is in the aisles. This is the stuff you should avoid. Fruit roll ups, sugarey cereals, baking aisle, noodles, chips, pretzels, crackers, frozen food, soda pop, etc.

>>16499664
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32972526/
big study, no obese

>>16499685
Nope and won't try.
I did use fasting and intermittent fasting and lost some weight even though I have almost always been at IMC 24. Mostly out of curiosity.
I'm not really against it, I just get tired of magical diets and elixirs that are useful for everything.
I agree it works at short term.

>>16498688
>totally non biased vegan pushing for anti keto or meat heavy diets
Learn were your sources come from brainlett

>>16499697
Intermittent fasting works great too. Especially in America people have issues doing stuff in moderation. They also have long hours and drive far due to geo-political historical events I won't get into for the sake of this thread. So its very easy for people to fall into the trap of
>don't eat breakfast or get a fast food one
>eat a huge lunch since you're starving and exhausted
>have another cup of coffee because you overate at lunch
>drive home 1 hour in rush hour
>be completely mentally exhausted
>grab something on the way home
>that something contains all sorts of preservatives and msg and other shit that is probably bad for you, not to mention bread, fries and soda
>Pig out and watch tv
>go to sleep, rinse, & repeat

This is unironically whats killing people in the long run, if they just exercise a little bit of discipline and make themselves cook a few times a week, its cheaper, better for them typically (lets say they get pork chops and asparagus), that'll last you 2 meals and is objectively healthier for you than taco bell and pizza.

Whatever people need to do to fast and lose weight I support. I agree keto isn't sustainable in the long run. However it works great in the short term and when people have circumstances like what i listed it might be the only thing that works for them. It often is a kickstand to an eventual healthy lifestyle which is really where we need to get. Intermittent fasting, exercise, and minimizing calories, eliminating complex carbs and only eating good ones. For example fruit has carbs. So does a donut. But the nutritional value of eating a box of strawberries is still probably better for you than eating a donut. Stuff like that.

>>16499704
The video is plant based, not really vegan, but Krause isn't plant based or vegan.
Also
>ignoring Virta Health Corp
>ignoring keto merchants
Those are also biased, so it's fair.

>>16499686

>(hazard ratio: 1.053; p < 0.0001 per 100 mg/dl × years; hazard ratio: 0.797 per mg/dl/year; p = 0.045, respectively)

fucking lol, this is what passes as conclusive evidence?

>>16499710
True.
What I don't like is that most people lose weight then regain it.
But it's true some people might stick to a good weight.

>>16499713
>both p < 0.05
yep

>>16499711
>those are also biased so it's fair
no it isn't. You created your own strawmen to try and validate your obviously flawed opinion.

>>16498710
>>16498719

Glycaemic index is the best way of telling which sweeteners are good for keto. Here's my cheatsheet:

>>16499743
Good for everything.
Also, glycemic load.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/the-lowdown-on-glycemic-index-and-glycemic-load

>>16499741
>cries about strawmen
>ignores keto strawmen
>obviously flawed opinion
>says the dude eating garbage
Ok ketoomer.

>>16499756
lel I could give a shit how you eat. What's laughable is people who are triggered by ketoers while ketoers chug along getting healthier and living better lives living rent free in your minds. Also, I'm carnivore so all of you are plebs to me anyways
>eating garbage
kek go ahead and eat your bowl of oats

>>16496896
well the most nutritionally dense foods are animal products, but ignoring that, dont know if oxalates matter or not

>>16498635
>>16498667
>>16498681
>>16498726
>but effects on all-cause mortality (RR 0.97; 95% CI 0.90 to 1.05; 12 trials, 55,858 participants) and cardiovascular mortality (RR 0.95; 95% CI 0.80 to 1.12, 12 trials, 53,421 participants) were less clear (both GRADE moderate quality of evidence).
Fucking retard can't read.

>>16499775
>carnivore
Omnivores, superior beings, are also carnivores.
Eating non-meat doesn't make you stop eating meat.
The true pleb is the dude with a restricted diet because he has so little self control he gets fat if he isn't tied up.

>>16499775
>oats
>eating estrogen
Sounds like a thing you and vegans would enjoy.

>>16499778
>MODERATE QUALITY BAD
ok Einstein

>>16496753
TAKE THE DEENZ PILL

>>16499382
>The diet in itself doesn't produce the weight loss, it's eating less. Try eating double with the same keto diet and you'll get fat.

https://pastebin.com/Us82WKCR

for real though, TDEE calculators say my maintenance is ~2000 and I eat 2500 -4000 calories a day and I dont gain or lose, a calorie isnt a calorie, metabolism treats differnt foods differently, I only eat beef, bacon, eggs and butter and cream, im half convinced if I dropped the cream id start losing, but addicted to it

>>16499788
right. It takes less self control to eat the cleanest most restrictive way imaginable, than to eat the garbage shoved down your throats by every agency known to man. Every time I go out to eat with my normie friends they see me as some sort of monk because I have the willpower to avoid the crap foods most people see as normal. Same applies for vegans tho, but no one is impressed by them thanks to a vegan's nature of being insufferable cunts.

>>16499807
no it takes less effort to eat real foods and restrict junk 100%, than it takes to eat junk in moderation

Keto/low-carb is obviously the best diet. Cures type 2 diabetes. Cures obesity. No calorie counting needed. Delicious food.

But you guys need to learn not to argue with vegans. Waste of time. Just discuss keto and ignore their screeching and crying.

>>16499796
It makes sense, as macronutrients accomplish different functions.
It's known amino acid absorption varies, so a portion of proteins will be shat unless your body increases their absorption in anabolism.
Sometimes fat content in shit increases too.
Amino acids and fatty acids will be used for hormones and other structures, as they are secondary fuels.
Adipose tissue is know to be harder to use than glycogen, so the energetic output might be lower.
Well yeah, cream is really caloric dense, even considering absorption and metabolic efficiency.
You could try substitutes or cognitive-behavioral therapy to fight your addiction.
It would be interesting if the coach tried doing a study with his methodology but with more people.
His second processed diet is practically 100% trash, everything would shine against it.
He could compare his first diet against real diets like dash, intermittent fasting, mediterranian and flexitarian with months of follow up.
I'm sure it would be comparable to vegan diets, as some nutrients from vegetables aren't absorbed quiet well.

>>16499839
It also makes you taller, gives you a huge dick and a cute big titted gf.
You tell' em, ketosister!

>>16499852
>believing misgendering is actually offensive
Redditors are high on their own supply.

>>16499858
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnG5tYhoX3A
OH NO KETOSISTER
a-are those carbs?
HELP I already got fat just by smelling them!
Save us ketosister!

>>16499627
>using vegan rhetoric
ketofags are just contrarian vegans

>>16498583
Fruit is no better than stuffing your fat diabetic face with pure sugar.

>>16500079
Avocado is a fruit.

>>16499870
>muh athlete
Really grasping at straws.

People like keto because it cures obesity and type 2 diabetes without counting calories or being hungry. And keto food is very tasty. Bacon, eggs, steak, butter, etc.

>>16499794
>farmed sardines drenched in low quality bad oils, in cheap cans with toxic residue

Just go to a fishmonger and get whole fish, you dainty female. Or get superior fish like cod or haddock.

>>16500079

I feel best when I restrict my carbohydrate intake, simple as.

>>16500110
>I-It doesn't count if it isn't a whale!

People like keto because they are mentally ill like vegans.
It doesn't cure dm2, nothing does.
Butter tastes like shit.
Bacon, eggs and steak are alright.

>>16500128
You're incoherent.

Keto is saving thousands of lives by helping people lose weight and reverse their diabetes. It's the most successful intervention for improving health.

Why are you so upset about that?

>>16499788
No, the true pleb would be the dude with a non-restricted diet who has so little self-control he's morbidly obese and diabetic.

>>16500111
not farmed
olive oil is not bad oil

>>16500111
Sardine farming isn't a thing, buddy.

>>16500150
>You aren't on a cult so you are incoherent.
No but it is filling the pockets of a lot of snake oil sellers.
>It's the most successful intervention for improving health.
That's not surgery, antibiotics nor hygiene, right?
>Why are you so upset about that?
About churches and their miracle cults.
You are a obnoxious vegan.
>>16500160
That's the same dude from the controlled diet.

>>16500128
Not him but there's nothing really wrong with a keto diet specifically (There are other factors at play anyway) There's no such thing as an objectively great diet, because individuals react to food differently. Some fags will die from keto or paleo or whatever, some will find success. You should look at it as a case-by-case basis, not generalizing everyone. Because by that logic you could generalize anyone with a "normal" diet and call them all sick unhealthy fatties because most people are simply unhealthy in general. But that doesn't mean everyone has to follow a specific fad diet, because again, individuals react differently to food. There are people in third world countries literally living in garbage dumps who should be deficient in some nutrients but they have decent and even great physiques, even having good health when getting check ups. There are wealthy people or food snobs who only eat grass fed non-antibiotic shit, ""clean"" foods but still develop diseases. Because there are a lot of personal factors that determine someone's health, not just food, and people react to diets differently. As for keto food tasting like shit, I don't know man, salmon, steak, bacon, butter, eggs, sardines, spinach, duck, shrimp, cheese all sound delicious to me. Maybe your taste buds are just out of order

>>16496774
>I'm almost definite that the actual keto diet (for epileptics) is 70%
this
don;t know why people think it's a healthy way of eating food

>>16500175
What do you mean by "healthy"?

>>16500166
>olive oil is not bad oil
The ones they use for cheap canned foods are bad quality, not cold-pressed and lost all its nutrients. Plus they usually substitute real olive oil for estrogenic/toxic shit like soybean oil or canola oil. I know you're going to disregard facts, but even the olive oil they sell in most stores are not real olive oil. They're a mix of different kinds of cheap oils with very little olive oil that isn't even cold-pressed, very heavily processed with all of its benefits drained out. They also use rancid stale olives, don't take my word for it and do your research. They certainly won't be using high-quality real olive oil for dirt cheap can of fish they sell in poorfag stores.

>>16500171
It's clear you're upset about keto, but it's not clear why.

Ketogenic diets are proven to be the most successful medical intervention for reversing modern disease (e.g. type 2 diabetes, hypertension, obesity). Ketogenic diets are so beneficial for health that keto is curing diseases which a decade ago were being called chronic and irreversible.

Plus it's nice to feel good, look good, and eat food whenever you are hungry without worrying about measuring or tracking it in a diary. Keto is awesome.

>>16500178
your body processes starch the easiest
fat and protein are secondary (read emergency) food stores that are a lot less efficient.
ketogenic diets produce ketones.
If diabetics went on a ketogenic diet, they wold be at a higher risk of ketoacidosis.

Just count calories when you can, reduce intake, and do some exercise.

>>16500194
Are you going to answer my question or not?

>>16500194
Ketogenic diets cure type 2 diabetes.

diets are jewish

>>16500171
>snake oil sellers
That applies to all diets, even yours. Normalfag foods are sold by snake oil jews. Keto foods are sold by snake oil jews. Same shit everywhere. The only real difference is that ketotards intake less carbs. People outside the keto world are not healthier. All diets have downsides, actually normalfag diet has even more downsides than keto generally. And I'm not saying people should specifically do one kind of diet, because that's stupid. Do what works for your body, instead of categorizing diets and trying to determine which one is good or bad. You sound bitter over keto, and that's retarded because every other diet has just as many horror stories. Eat what's good for your own body, other people should eat what's good for their bodies. No I don't do paleo or keto or superman diet, I'm just telling you to stop cherrypicking and be objective.

t. Rice fiend who eats trucktons of carbs

>>16500197
my father who is on insulin would probably have constant hypoglycemia immediately after meals.
cutting off starch that abruptly does not help a diabetic.

>>16500172
There is something wrong with keto diet specifically as it relies on keto funded studies, claims to be a magical elixir and is followed by vegan priests.
The best diets are mostly carbs, which keto suspiciously fears.
I agree there are other factors, but we also share common factors as humans. If our physiology wasn't similar, studies wouldn't work, doses wouldn't exist and everyone would have like half the current lifespan.
I said butter tastes like shit.
Butter=/= salmon, steak, bacon, eggs, sardines, spinach, duck, shrimp.
You say I shouldn't generalize, then you intermediately do it.

>>16500208
Your father should have talked to a doctor familiar with reversing type 2 diabetes. You can stop insulin as soon as you stop eating carbs. Metformin is okay to stay on long term.

>>16500216
>which keto suspiciously fears.
I mean, I think keto is healthy, but being so carb phobic is fucked, I eat a 99% carnivore diet, but if I run out of cream for my coffee in the morning, the fuck am I supposed to be scared of using some of the families milk, oh nose carbs

>>16500197
Well cutting your arm off is a faster way to lose weight than any diet, no one does it because it's retarded.
T2DM can't be cured, only retarded vegans and ketosisters think it can.
Starving =/= no diabetes
>>16500206
Which is my diet?
>People outside the keto world are not healthier.
Generalizing again.
>b-bitter
No, I just love shitting on ketosisters and vegans.
You are also cherrypicking to defend keto and generalizing anything against it.
You are addicted to rice? That's pretty interesting as it's known japanese have always eaten carbs and actually had less diabetes until they started americanizing their diet by frying everything and eating fast food/instant noodles.
Their women got tittier with meat in exchange of diabetes.

>>16500244
Nobody is scared of carbs. They just accurately recognize that carbs are fattening. Milk has lactose in it because it's for babies to gain tremendous amounts of weight very rapidly.

If I wanted to gain weight I'd choose healthier carb sources like dairy, honey, or fruit.

>>16500216
>butter
That's not generalizing people though. And I'm throwing a playful jab at you because you're clearly butthurt and legit raging over a simple discussion.
>keto funded studies
Most ketofaggots don't read studies, they just follow the basic premise. And you could easily say studies for other foods are just funded by corporations wanting to sell their products. Again, everything you're saying also applies to diets outside keto, which is hypocritical and dumb.
>share common factors
Yes but that doesn't change the fact that bodies react differently to different foods and diets. We share the same base physiology but we are still individuals with lots of differences, that's why some people can eat certain foods, while some can't. All diets have had success stories and horror stories, keto and whatever your diet is included. Just the regular diet most people eat is not really optimal for health, but there are a lot of people who still manage to live long lives doing that. It's almost like there are different factors at play, which is the main point I'm trying to make. People have different lifestyles, bodies, and you don't know how consistent they are with each diet. It's not specifically keto or any one diet alone that's evil. There's nothing wrong with someone experimenting with paleo or keto or whatever the fuck, it's actually a good sign most of the time. Because that means the person is beconing more wary of what they put in their mouth and this leads to better choices in the long run. Like I said, most ketofaggots probably don't read actual studies but I think their diet has its own benefits and risks, just like every other diet. Keto is nothing to be butthurt about.

>>16500255
>Nobody is scared of carbs.
reddit is

>>16500255
Human milk has lower protein content than most other animal's milk.
Honey has a glycemic index almost as high as sugar, it's only useful against infections.

>>16500293
Table sugar would also be great for weight gain I'd just avoid it because I trust bees to refine sugar more than I trust people.

>>16500259
>That's not generalizing people though.
You do generalize people outside keto.
>playful jab
sure
>butthurt
No, I'm actually having fun.
>Most ketofaggots don't read studies
I know.
>And you could easily say studies for other foods are just funded by corporations wanting to sell their products.
Not all of them, you are generalizing again.
>Again, everything you're saying also applies to diets outside keto, which is hypocritical and dumb.
It isn't hypocritical as I also attack those, but I focus on ketosisters and vegans because they are the most obnoxious.
>Keto is nothing to be butthurt about.
Not the diet itself but the followers are obnoxious. Just like veganism is healthy but their cherrypicking, elitism, and soyery makes them obnoxious.
I had already agreed with the different factors.

vegan diets are only healthy because some chick had a vision from god back in the day and a religion trained doctors to shill it

>>16500000
test

>>16500333
And because they die less of everything except hemorrhagic strokes, which actually fucks them up.

A vegan woman I fucked smelled nice.
A keto woman I fucked smelled like shit.
Both were slim and had a nice ass.

>>16500327
I don't see anyone in this thread being obnoxious other than you.

>>16496753
chicken is objectively better for you than turkey and bacon what the fuck

>>16496753
Outside the whole colon cancer thing. Looks pretty cool.

>>16500402
all three are mono-gastric trash

>>16500415
As opposed to the regular diet most people have which is just normal cancer.

>>16496753
IT's a bit of a meme thta ahs convinced eveyr jackass that they're a health expert. Should people in general eat fewer carbs? Of course, that would help a lot of people. This keto shit has gotten out of hand though

>>16500457
Regular diet doesn't cause cancer, it protects from cancer. Exercise, healthy weight, vegetables, fruit, berries and full grain protect against cancer. Red meat, alcohol and tobacco cause cancer.

Why are you ketotards so full of shit every time? Who comes up with this bullshit? And why the fuck do you believe the bullshit and not measureable, empirical evidence about diets like Mediterranian diet or Japanese Okinawa diet. Protip: Okinawan people have very little cancer. They don't eat meat almost at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

>keto
>vegan
volumetrics has the most science behind it

>>16500390
That's the idea, champ.

>>16500416
>murican cow being elitist because he has several stomachs

I injected two whole carbohydrates the other day

>>16500528
somehow that makes them convert the shit food they eat into saturated fat, where as the shit food pigs and chicken eat go into the fat stores

>>16500489
Keto works better than any other diet.

>>16500566
LDL IS JUST A ENERGY TRANSPORT SYSTEM AND IT KILLS VIRI

>>16500566
>end the same as mediterranean
med>dash>flex>keto

>>16500489
because ketosisters are vegans

>>16500600
>dash
>no salt
>high heart rate
>500 600

>>16500600
>mediterranean was calorie restricted
>keto was unrestricted
Keto won. Having as good or better weight loss while eating unlimited food is drastically superior to a diet where you have to measure what you eat and go hungry.

>>16500628
That's not keto.

>>16500652
It's definitely a LCHF/ketogenic diet. It's unclear what your objection really is, though. If you're pointing out that they could have even better results on a zero carb carnivore diet, I'd absolutely agree.

Carb reduction is proven to be the best intervention for weight loss, curing diabetes, curing hypertension, etc. If people prefer low-carb to zerocarb it's still better than not changing their diet at all.

>>16496753
>7 green vegetables

Swap out asparagus, spinach, lettuce and broccoli for peppers, carrots, tomatoes and mushrooms. Swap duck for beef, who eats duck? Turkey for chicken.

>>16500728
>120g of carbs
>keto
Ok ketosister

>>16500781
Yeah the lower the carbs, the better. Reducing from 400g carbs daily to 100g carbs daily is a huge improvement.

Zero carb carnivore is best, though. Agreed.

>>16500415
Red meat has no effect on colorectal cancer per the Polyp Prevention Trial.

>>16500808
I've heard this song and dance for years on this retarded board.
I don't care. You do what you want. You don't need to feel threatened that I think what I think.

>>16500794
Whatever you say ketosister.

>>16496753
it works and I even did it like a retard.
>boxing gym
>eat only avocados, eggs and hotdogs
>lose 1lb a day
>most energy I've ever had
Gotta get back to doing it

>>16500823
Exactly. You are free to ignore the disconfirming evidence just as I am.

The evidence continues to accumulate in a certain direction...

"We found evidence that LCDs for people with T2D may improve many renal and cardiovascular risk factors. In our own LCD cohort of 143 patients with normal renal function or only mild CKD, over an average of 30 months the serum creatinine improved by a significant mean of 4.7 (14.9) μmol/L. What remains to be shown is the effect of the approach on people with T2D and moderate/severe CKD."
https://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/abstract/9000/renal_function_in_patients_following_a_low.99181.aspx

>>16500628
That's not Mediterranean

where do people get their protein on keto

>>16501038
Is this a bait or are you serious?

>>16501138
yeah, on such a high fat diet seems like there wouldnt be enough protein or carbs

>>16500896
https://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/Abstract/2019/12000/Bone_health_in_adult_trans_persons__an_update_of.4.aspx
Yes ketosister

>>16501214
You basically eat the same amount of protein as normal if not slightly more. Ketogenic diets are moderate protein because a high protein bolus absent fat can spike blood sugar and kick you of ketosis. In practice this means eating chicken thighs instead of chicken breast and fattier cuts of beef and fish. Also the main point is to not eat carbs or at least not a lot of carbs outside of some green vegetables and maybe some low sugar fruit.

>>16498605
>You are gonna kill people with chronic kidney disease with your advise.
Literally zero evidence. High-carbohydrate is the only thing that can lead to kidney disease or insufficiency. Go ask the Masai, the Inuit, and hunter-gatherer tribe.
Fucking educate yourself, before making a fool of yourself. Show me the data, you dumb nigger,
To anybody regarding hair loss: SHOW ME THE DATA.

>>16501645
See >>16500896 renal function improves in diabetics on keto diet. High insulin makes everything worse and keto diets can reduce insulin and improve insulin sensitivity.

I don't do keto myself, but why exactly does it make mouth-foaming shills come flooding out of the woodwork? Is it just years of grain and seed oil propaganda causing mass brainwashing?

>>16501743
hmmm maybe. I'd bet its a mix of the vegans who don't want people eating more animals and people who think CICO is all that matters and other food industry propoganda like a calorie is a calorie.

>>16501743
seed oil is bad, and its shilled as heart healthy not bad

>>16501783
Harvard School of Public Health says seed oils are good. They also take millions from soybean and other industry so... take that as you will.

>>16496753
moronic. Enjoy your pancreatitis.

My employer just killed the keto line of products, which is good, although embarrassing that we ever developed such garbage.

>>16501800
>keto line of products
Gay and unnecessary. Keto ideally is just meat fish eggs dairy veg and fruit not more processed crap with a keto label.

>>16501816
I don't know what's gay about a line of products but I agree that it was unnecessary the sales figures back that up.

Keto is ideally a diet to be avoided. 70% of calories from fat is retarded.

>>16501830
>70% of calories from fat is retarded.
Tell that to all the people with diabetes, obesity, epilepsy, etc. That's probably 80-90 percent of Americans if you include pre diabetes as well.

>>16496753
The two strategies employed by fad diets are to either eliminate calorie dense foods directly, or to offer pain in the arse / disgusting substitutes that end up not being substituted at all.
Keto is decent at the latter, but terrible at the former. Nuts and oils are crazy calorie dense and will have you gaining weight if you use them to replace simple carbs like bread and rice. Fuck, they'll have you gaining weight over chips and cake.

I propose a new diet. If anything is more than 250 calories per 100 grams you can't eat it. Sugar free drinks only because I don't want to have to build a database of foods' dry weight.

>>16501845
>fad diets
The original human diet and original dietary treatment for diabetes obesity is a fad? Retards never cease to amaze me...

>>16501844
Diabetics need only minimize high glycemic carbohydrates. They can have complex carbohydrates and protein. A keto diet is bad for them too.

>>16497094
>oxalates inhibit your nutrient absorption. Pretty much ruining the nutritional value of your meal
So it's the holy grail of weight loss dieting and you want as much as possible?

>>16501855
oh fuck off with that ahistorical bullshit. You know what early humans ate? Everything they fucking could. And you know how much of it they ate at a time? As much as they fucking could. If they found a berry patch, do you think they were like "no more than 10% of your calories from these berries guys, we can't break ketosis!"?

No, they fucking gorged because the next meal was never a guarantee. Humans are 2 legged pigs, perfectly adapted to process a wide variety of food.

>>16497094
where did you get your doctorate in biochmistry/human nutrition? You're making shit up, with no actual data or research that you could possibly cite.

>>16501856
>They can have complex carbohydrates
Sure if they want their diabetes to continually get worse and lose limb, eyesight, and life. Alternatively go keto and reverse or put it into remission.

>>16501645


https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(20)30726-5/fulltext
>Protein Restriction, CKD Patients Not on Dialysis and Without Diabetes3.0.1 In adults with CKD 3-5 who are metabolically stable, we recommend, under close clinical supervision, protein restrictionwith or without keto acid analogs, to reduce risk for end-stage kidney disease (ESKD)/death (1A) and improve quality oflife (QoL) (2C):a low-protein diet providing 0.55–0.60 g dietary protein/kg body weight/day, ora very low-protein diet providing 0.28–0.43 g dietary protein/kg body weight/day with additional keto acid/amino acid analogs to meetprotein requirements (0.55–0.60 g/kg body weight/day)
>survival/renal death.Research reports a beneficial effectof protein restriction (0.55-0.6 g/kg per day) on ESKD/death in adults with CKD. In adults with CKD, 5 RCTsreported findings on the effect of protein restriction onsurvival/deaths. Three studies clearly indicated a beneficialeffect of moderate restriction in dietary protein on thedevelopment of ESKD/death.153,164,168Rosman et al168indicated that people consuming 0.6 g/kg per day ofprotein had better survival (55%) compared with patientsconsuming free protein intake (40%). Hansen et al164indicated that death or ESKD was significantly lower inthe low-protein-intake group (0.6 g/kg per day; 10%)compared with usual protein intake (27%). Locatelli etal153also showed that an LPD (0.6 g/kg per day) hadfewer events (27/192) compared with usual proteinintake (1 g/kg per day; 42/188), borderline significant (P<0.06),

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5962279/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356719/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6855949/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221301/

>>16501976
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28745686/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5879959/

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/secondary-factors-and-progression-of-chronic-kidney-disease?search=protein-restriction-and-progression-of-chronic-kidney-disease.com&source=search_result&selectedTitle=1~150&usage_type=default&display_rank=1
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/dietary-recommendations-for-patients-with-nondialysis-chronic-kidney-disease?search=protein-restriction-and-progression-of-chronic-kidney-disease.com&source=search_result&selectedTitle=2~150&usage_type=default&display_rank=2
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/chronic-kidney-disease-in-children-overview-of-management?search=protein-restriction-and-progression-of-chronic-kidney-disease.com&source=search_result&selectedTitle=4~150&usage_type=default&display_rank=4
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/ckd-diet-how-much-protein-right-amount
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/nutrikidfail_stage1-4

>>16501645
> High-carbohydrate is the only thing that can lead to kidney disease or insufficiency.
>ignoring infections
>ignoring stones
>ignoring toxicities
>ignoring glomerulonephritis
>ignoring high blood pressure
>ignoring enlarged prostate

>>16501976
NOOOOO JASON FUNG PUTS HIS PATIENTS ON LOW CARB NOOOOOOOO

>>16501645
>Fucking educate yourself, before making a fool of yourself.
Ironic
>To anybody regarding hair loss: SHOW ME THE DATA.
?
That's not on my post.

>>16501743
It's just vegans. They are very upset about keto smashing their decades old lies about saturated fat and animal products being the cause of all disease.

>>16501866
you're actually retarded. Low glycemic carbs are perfectly fine for diabetics, and you can't force it into remission with a simple diet change.

isn't it expensive
especially with food costs over the past year and a half

>>16502747
you're a retard

"There was also resolution of diabetes (reversal, 53.5%; remission, 17.6%) in the CCI group but not in UC. All the reported improvements had p < 0.00012."

>>16503360
day of eating for me

eye of round 1lb $6.99
butter 50g $1
Pack of Bacon $5
6 eggs $1.5
Total $15

>>16501743
keto is the meat version of vegans, they will most likely not happily do the diet in peace, they spread untrue information as fact citing bs studies and, in general on ck, they are fatties in denial. spouting that your fad diet is the be all and end all is cringe regardless of whether its all meat or all leaves

>>16503555
>citing bs studies
how so? tell me how any of the linked studies are bs oh wise anon...

>>16503574
ya it literally cures diabetes amirite fellow oh wise lard? don't believe me, heres 10 pics of people who lost weight with the word "keto" above the before and after pic

>the keto retard has been rambling on for nearly two days
Get help

Its too highly caloric, fat is just too highly caloric.
Yeah Id love to eat cashews and almonds all the time and some of those high prot low carb recipies are nice, but man I aint a fan of the cal count for my goals.
I swapped to CICO for fitness and ive been losing kilos ever since.
Also Keto has the added problem of sugar cravings, why go through that ?

>>16503603
>ya it literally cures diabetes
yes it does I'm not sure why that fact triggers you so much though

>>16503679
>Also Keto has the added problem of sugar cravings, why go through that ?
you mean the 2 weeks of I really want junkfood before a cookie dosnt even look like food anymore?

>>16503685
Sure it does
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00453.2013?fbclid=IwAR3p07KJSuqqnDJY1rhqHL5D515Y3gGshLo2XqGGu4esX-oNuyEzroRYFvY&

>>16503603
Low-carb diets absolutely cure type 2 diabetes. There's an ongoing clinical trial proving this. They have plans to go for five years total.

https://www.virtahealth.com/blog/2yr-t2d-trial-outcomes-virta-nutritional-ketosis

You would think results like this would make people happy. Here are people getting off medication and reversing a supposedly irreversible disease, and instead of being met with celebration it is met with anger. Why are you angry about these results?

What is it that upsets you about a very promising lifesaving dietary treatment?

>>16503725
its not really cured though, its just managed without drugs, which I think is absolutely fantastic, and is probably increasing life spans of diabetics, but two seconds into a junkfood fueld rampage they will be back at square 1

>>16503725
Keep prescribing your miracle diet, maybe your cult will promote you to the leader
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31067015/

Keto is for illiterate fat people who want to lose weight but don't want to give up bacon cheeseburgers.

>>16503734
Well you're wrong, it's cured.

>When we debate about whether it's possible to reverse type 2 diabetes and people say it's only being controlled on a healthy diet it's not actually being reversed, nope that's not true. I've actually done hundreds of glucose tolerance tests with insulin--more commonly known as the Kraft test--and I've got multiple patients who have actually been able to restore flat glycemic control in response to a 75g load of glucose.
https://youtu.be/bvD9SQM8ZJY?t=2472

But your nitpicking doesn't explain why would someone be upset about a non-drug intervention which "controls" diabetes to such an extent that patients get off all medication and no longer have risk for damage from high blood glucose (e.g. amputation, blindness). Even if it's just "controlled" not cured--it is in fact cured, but for the sake of argument we can pretend--what is there to be angry about? Why would someone be hostile to such an effective treatment?

>>16503692
thats what my brain says but not my tongue

>>16503763

>>16503724
>>16503741

Such an effective treatment for living such an unnaturally long life too!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246826671830135X

>>16503801
>low carbohydrate consumption (<40%
>40%
See, this is a good example of how dishonest and malicious anti-keto posters are. Fearmongering using an epidemiology (i.e. total bullshit) study which defines "low-carb" as anything less than 40% carb consumption. The carb consumption of course wasn't measured it was guesswork based on questionnaires.

Why does he do it? Why does he want people to believe a diet which cures obesity and type 2 diabetes will kill them?

Obviously curing type 2 diabetes and obesity makes you less likely to die. Yet he doesn't want anyone to be cured. Curious.

>>16503734

Hmmm almost like your body is telling you to stop consuming sugar

>>16503746

>Keto
>Cheeseburgers

burg·er
/ˈbərɡər/

noun: burger; plural noun: burgers

a dish consisting of a round patty of ground beef, or sometimes another savory ingredient, that is fried or grilled and typically served in a split bun or roll with various condiments and toppings.

>>16503838
A&W serves lettuce wrapped burgers, but I still dont order one cause the ketchup and shit
08AGA

>>16503818
why does her face look normal?

>>16503818
Epidemiological studies about covid are also fear mongering propaganda too I suppose.

And then you ignore all the other studies posted as you're brain cannot deal with the information.

And you instantly post vegans as if vegan ketos aren't a thing. Diet hasn't improved your schizophrenia, has it?

>>16503838
Allow me to introduce you to the chaffle. A perfect low-carb bun substitute.

>>16503909
>guac on a burger
kys

>>16503913
I don't actually eat plants. My chaffle burgers are 100% animal-based. It's someone else's photo.

Looks a lot more expensive than my normal diet. Especially in the additional quantities it will require. Not the 5% carbs part but the loads of protein and varied fats. Not very shocking since pasta and potatoes etc carbs are dirt cheap. It's definitively doable on my budget but I'm not sold on having to rely solely on my own meals to not overshoot carb intakes. Is reaching ketosis really such an immense satisfaction and energy booster once the initial hurdles are cleared?

>>16500113
Based fucking plums.

>>16503933
>Is reaching ketosis really such an immense satisfaction
not for me, I cant tell a difference, but the meals are more satisfying, I only eat twice a day and feel pretty full the rest of the time and not snacking

My wife and I adapted to a HFLC (keto) diet for 2 years, with very few lapses out of ketosis.

It was great for weight loss. Also, sustained aerobic exercise was noticeably easier while in ketosis.

We have since changed to HFHC while minimizing PUFAs. I also mega-dose Krill Oil in phospholipid form to get my DHA. I'm also about to get my hands on 20lbs of salmon roe.

>>16501864
And do you think the berries they'd find were as big, plump, and plentiful as they are in the supermarket, dumb cunt? How about pre-agricultural grains? Do you think there were just giant fields of modern, massive corn and wheat grains? Being adapted to eat a wide variety of foods does not mean those foods are or should be expected in similar quantities to each other. An ancient man could stuff himself with berries because those are the only berries he might ever see for weeks

>>16504083
Talking of ancestral man, seeing as the ancestral man you are talking about isn't quite what fits your narrative, you should know chimpanzees our closest relatives only eat meat as 1 percent of their diet, yet are far stronger than us

>>16500489
>muh japanese diet
Japanese people are physically the weakest and smallest race for a reason (tiniest genitals too). Funny thing is, the oldest living person isn't even japanese and the oldest of all times aren't japanese either. One is a french, the other is American above the gook.

>>16503555
>keto is the meat version of vegans
See, you say something like this, and yet the only nasty, over-emotional people I see in this thread are the anti-keto posters, like: >>16503741

It's not a good look for you.

>>16496753
>Eggs
>Bacon
>Turkey
>Salmon
>Shrimp
>Duck
>Sardines
>Broc
>Spinach
>Butter
>Olive Oil

Damn, I didn't know the keto diet was based. Overly emotional divas in this thread are sperging out for no reason. These are all good foods.

>>16504183
>As an example of the diet of our herbivorous primate relatives, one study found the western lowland gorilla gets about "2.5% energy as fat, 24.3% protein, 15.8% available carbohydrate, with potentially 57.3% of metabolizable energy from short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) derived from colonic fermentation of fiber."

https://facultativecarnivore.com/facultative-carnivore/chapter-5-carnivores-herbivores-and-boars-oh-my/

Keto is just another form of calorie restriction.
Just eat whole foods from plants and animals to cover your daily calorie needs, whether you're sedentary or active, and limit processed foods from your diet.
I personally eat 90% of my calories from homecooked meals and 10% from some bit of junk food abnormally high in carbs and fats.

>>16504305
They keep attacking us, ketosister.
They are so mean :(
They say ketosisters = vegans

>>16500566
LoL at that "study"!

In TWO fucking years people only lost TEN pounds? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, as it was obviously not controlled in any way.

>>16504647
I didn't know eggs, bacon, turkey, salmon, shrimp, duck, sardines were vegan. Surely anyone reading your post wouldn't think you're retarded.

>>16504739
>cries about mean vegans
>is mean to his ketosister
ketosisters are the same as vegans

>>16504678
lmao at your scientific comprehension skills
low-carb dieters lost over 14lbs on average after 5 months, way more than the other two
That's far more meaningful than the two year result were each group were obviously way more lax with their diets (altho low carb still stayed at most weight loss)

>>16504747
>mean vegans
Huh. When and where did I even mention vegans before I responded to your post. You brought them up first, I was saying meat isn't vegan. Anyone reading this thread can see you're a retard and you're failing at trying to save face.

>>16504769
> you're a retard
I'm sorry ketosister, maybe it's the saturated fat.

>>16503746
>>16499512
>samefagging the whole thread
Post body with timestamp. Ignoring this post or replying with anything that isn't a timestamped body pic is a concession. You will concede.

>>16504778
Post penis.

>>16499667
you have to be over 18 to post here.

>>16496753
It's retarded because people that say they do keto, don't actually enter the stage of ketosis.
If it's about losing weight then they should stop eating like whales and or add vegetables and fibers for filling.

>>16500194
>your body processes starch the easiest
even if this was true, so what? why is "easiest" processing good? diabetes is no bueno, you gotta be always actively use those starches or they'll stick around and inflammate you to diabetes otherwise.
>fat and protein are secondary (read emergency) food stores that are a lot less efficient.
obviously you have little to no knowledge about bodily processes. fats are absolutely the primary supply for energy. carbs are faster, but so is alcohol and what do you know, alcohol is shit for your liver too.
>Just count calories when you can, reduce intake, and do some exercise.
not mutually exclusive, you just make it harder for yourself by sticking with useless starches.

>>16504912
what do you mean by this? I test my urine, blood and breath every 30 minutes to make sure im in ketosis, I breath on my gf and ask her hows my breath, and I drink water and piss like a diabetic

>eat buttered steak for brekkie
>lose weight
>get swole
>carbots seethe
>go to mcdonalds
>see protesting vegans
>engage in conversation with extra-strength keto breath
>they drop to the floor and choke
>piss dark red letters on every nitroprusside wall I come across
>it's not even noon yet

Just another day of superior existence

so what's the verdict? is keto good or bad?

>>16505714
it's good if you're a stagnant and weak minded. look at the total number of olympians who do keto.

>>16505839
im guessing basically zero athletes actually do keto?

>>16505899
some do, Michelle Hurn runs on carnivore, and Mikalia Peterson just had a low carb long distance runner on her podcast, maybe its only good for running lol

>>16505906
it sounds like keto is yet another diet fad, and the only real solution that works for most people is just reasonably for whatever you're trying to do, otherwise just eat reasonably in general. i assume this is what most people believe?

>>16505935
yeah. realistically just eat reasonably, balanced diet with exercise.

>>16505935
IDK, most people buy pure junk, I amuse myself by watching people carts at the grocery store and imagining what they are like by what they buy, mental data mining lol, keto is no exception, people buying also sorts of shit that proudly proclaims
>2g net carbs
on the package, if you are eating a whole foods diet you are probably in the clear whether its keto, carnivore or vegan, at least miles ahead of the average person

>>16505150
inferior*

>>16496753
I think it's fucking stupid and its fanbase makes me cringe to no end.

>>16506230
OK vegan

>>16497766
>protein should not be counted
spotted the retard dyel, I only eat once a day and consume 170g of protein in a sitting and I still make gains

>>16505150
based
>>16505714
in the length of the clinical trials 1-2 years everything seems to get better. cvd risk factors, diabetes, weight, blood pressure, even cognitive performance, libido, but opponents to this will imagine that for some reason after the length of the trials we have everything gets worse and you will die of a heart attack...
>>16505957
this doesn't work and is why we have an obesity and diabetes epidemic. "balanced" foods are loaded with sugar and junk refined carbohydrates.

>>16506624
Do they actually think it will harm health long term, or are they just liars? I suspect they are just lying.

>>16506391
>spotted the retard dyel, I only eat once a day and consume 170g of protein in a sitting and I still make gains
'gainz' is not clearly defined, is vague, and is not used in any scientific literature.
There is no evidence that eating more protein above a certain threshold dependant on your age, sex, muscle mass, and circumstance (most often recovery from a workout of proper intensity, one that causes muscle cell damage; though other shit too, protein is a building block after all).
I have T1DM, coming too late to lchf, my insulin production is ~0. Protein eaten must be covered with insulin. Bernstein explicates this in his book, and is also elsewhere covered. Also is clear that, unless cats or hyenas, humans don't subside on a pure protein---ATP production from protein is very roundabout compared to carbohydrate or fat. It's also nonsatiating. I've worked out, and other then looking and feeling more like eurpoean bruce lee, increasing my protein >85--90 just raises blood glucose 4h postprandially. I should know, I've documented every single thing I've eaten since 2016-01-09
more scoops=>more glucose=>more insulin.

>>16506391
>>16508813
Counted as energy (4kcal/1g) is what I meant, my bad for not specifying, possible misunderstanding, not rereading this fucking shitshow of a thread tho.

Just eat what your body craves, is that really so hard?

t. superior gut microbes ubermensch

>>16501979
>>16501976
Only high carbohydrate and its generated insulin response is to blame for kidney disease. I'd give my internal organs if any of your badly designed 'studies' takes into account the crucial factor.
Jason Fung shows evidence from his patients, and explains how and why. On yt I've seen some people on the next to last stage of kidney disease going back (sth considered impossible by the dogma taught, and yeah, it is w/ carbs).
R. Bernstein, type 1 diabetic, currently 86 yo, reversed his kidney damage when he stopped eating carbs. Believe his book might have a chapter or two on kidneys.

People didn't die of or suffer from kidney disease before the early 20. cent, neither do any masai or inuit, other huntergathereres subsiting off of animals. Same could be said of t2dm and cvd.

>>16498605
>>16498553
Samefag

>>16498888
Checked.
Fuck vegans, I’m not keto myself but keep it up bro. Give it a couple of years and they’ll all join the 43% anyway.

>>16496753
Reducing refined carbohydrates is always a good thing. I lost a lot of weight on keto but found it to be unsustainable. I still limit my carbohyrdrate intake to around 80-100g per day but I'm not actually entering a state of ketosis. I find this is a happy middle ground for me.

>>16496774
if you dont go low protein on a high meat diet you will get heavily constipated and then have horrendous diarrhea. also I doubt people doing this diet stay in ketosis if they eat all the nuts and veggies and shit without actually measuring the amounts per day

>>16499413
>>16499415
Samefag

>>16505899
This is sort of a disingenuous take. The nutritional requirements of athletes doesn't apply to 99% of humans.

>>16499470
Compared to veganism where you just starve yourself and come out looking like an Auschwitz victim? Why don’t you post your physique so we can take a look at you, vegoid.

>>16499647
>article literally states organ meat is a better source of nutrients and vitamins than most plants and any deficiencies in carnivore diet are likely caused by people not eating organs
>Vegoid spergs out again due to stunted, shrivelled brain
I shiggy diggy

>>16499697
Post height and body.

>>16499852
>>16499870
Trannies on damage control
>btw
You will never be a real woman.

>>16503879
Yeah, normal if you’re bri ish

>>16506187
Cope