/ck/ - Food & Cooking

we actually did have a decent discussion about this in a thread about why americans don't eat vegetables recently

we talked about the economy and cultural changes

sorry you missed it

>>16444198
Local smaller shops with cheap whole foods are pretty much gone, majority of food is now bought from huge supermarkets that are driven to, and is packaged, highly processed and full of added preservatives, salt, sugar (HF corn syrup) etc. Also the diet is centred around disproportionate amounts of meat and carbs, often fried.

Even in the UK most shopping is still done at smaller local stores with a more more diverse diet and much higher proportion of healthy whole foods. Serving sizes at fast food places are also much smaller and the ingredient lists on processed/fast food is far-far shorter in Europe vs the US

>>16444254
do you have a thread number
also don't think vegetables alone will ave america

>>16444198
The culture of race to the bottom low production costs and max profits have made it this way. Turns out food regulations and consumer standards etc. are actually a good thing

>>16444198
>n we have a serious, factual discussion about why the US got so obese?
real answer?
at least we're not speaking german

fast food, corn syrup, decline of home cooking, etc

>>16444296
Much rather be German than American desu
Better country and people in pretty much every way

I think honestly the biggest thing is immense amounts of added sugar in everything, recently I eliminated almost all free sugar from my diet and I am struggling to even hit 2000cal

As a Brit your bread is disgustingly sugary

For-profit healthcare and big-sugar go hand in hand cos obese people are always ill and make them billions if not trillions each year

>>16444271
if we think in terms of macronutrients per se, dont think food processing alone does that much, no?
>>16444284
asian food can be very cheap and yet people arent fat. that said, pumping foods with sugar and plant oils is definitely the cheapest way to add calories.

>>16444348
>if we think in terms of macronutrients per se, dont think food processing alone does that much, no?
compared to raw/wholefoods it makes a lot of difference
Highly processed foods are almost always unhealthy and packed with calories and shitty chemicals

>>16444198
>Burgers driving absolutely everywhere
They can’t walk to a store because they live in a suburban hell hole with only strip malls. This cuts done their daily exercise significantly and means they literally sit all day

>Fast food culture
Auto centric fast food places make it easier and faster to get fast food versus other countries in the world. These places are also mass marketed 24/7

>Grocery food riddled with HFCS, soy, and sugar
Walk into a Walmart (where most burgers shop) and 90% of their carts are full of cheap foods with these addictive fillers.

>Lack of healthcare
Pretty obvious that some can’t afford to even go to the doctor to be told they are obese

> And finally, social acceptance
If you are an average (European) weight most Americans would consider you skinny. The fat acceptance/ rampant obese population has outnumbered the normals. This leaves fat ass kids thinking they are a “healthy” weight while they guzzle a 2L

>>16444198
>Top 20 countries with the most and least famine and drought resistant populations
Those skinny fags are one bad harvest away from devastating, cannibalism inducing, famine. They hateus cause the aintus.

>>16444386
>Japan and SK
>famine
yeah sure buddy

>>16444383
>If you are an average (European) weight most Americans would consider you skinny.
this always messes with my mind. this is true because being fat is simply normal in America now. i look at old photos from US, it's simply weird to see thin people in America. this is the most fucked up thing of it all

>>16444254
>>16444275
> we

>>16444198
US has so much food it's not even funny, the amount of food waste we have is unimaginable, enough unsaleable food ends up in food banks that nobody actually starves to death in the US against their will.

>>16444198
Refined sugars and vegetable oils piled up on top of processed refined carbs. This was directly caused by agricultural, economic, and dietary guideline policy decisions. It has been slowly trickling outwards to the rest of the world.

it's because we stopped bullying fat kids. you can blame corn syrup and mcchickens all you want but at the end of the day you're the one who decided to eat it.

>>16444435
>famine ever happening in asia

>>16444198
Japs don't eat home cooked meals, they buy junk from the convenience store.
In all honesty, the American reliance on corn is what fucked them up so much.
Just try and find a breakfast cereal in america that isn't made of corn.
Anywhere else in the world they have wheat based breakfast cereals.
Americans pump HFCS into everything regardless of if it's needed.
I will fight big corn until the day I die.

>>16444465
My parents grew up during the 50s-60s. It was rare to have overweight kids in your class during that time. Comparing today to photos from the 1900s-1950s is like something from another universe.

>>16444198
Looking at your map, the main commonality I can see between orange countries is most of them have a hot, dry climate over at least part of their territory
Maybe that’s got something to do with it?
Anyone got a map of US obesity rate by state?
Also
>map is 2016-2020
>libya still has high obesity rate
Huh, you learn something new every day

obese people are worse at doing crime can serve as loss prevention policy.

>>16445684
Yeah turns out that doesn’t track at all, it’s the hot wet parts of the US that are the fattest
Also hawaii is skinny apparently? Always thought Polynesians had trouble keeping off weight

>>16444198
Ultra-refined, hyper-palatable foods.

It's really that simple. The hormonal response that normal foods cause that make you feel full are bypassed when foods are heavily processed.

>>16444198
Processed food is high in calories but low in nutrition, and that leads to overeating because even if you've gotten enough calories you can still feel unsatisfied if your body hasn't gotten enough protein, iron, etc.

High quality medical care also leads to people not trying to change their lifestyle and get healthier. If you're obese and diabetic then they think they just need to go to the doctor for medicine but will keep doing what they're doing that pushed them to go to the doctor in the first place.

Stress is also another major factor that I don't see discussed too often when dealing with obesity. It's been shown that people who are constantly stressed, sleep deprived, lonely, overworked, they end up eating more as a way to comfort themselves. At that point food is essentially being used like a drug. Sugar is known to be used for this in particular and the average person has a very high intake of sugar in the USA.

>>16444198
This isn't a very good list. There are lots of island countries with obesity rate over 50%

>>16445705
It’s probably not a bad idea to exclude countries below 1M like op’s map, filters out the Polynesians who are (possibly?) outliers cause of their weird genetics.
I might be wrong though, I’m not too knowledgable on the scholarship there

>>16445705
...so the distance between 0% and 40% is the same as between 40% and 60%?

>>16444198
We are retarded and brainwashed and do whatever we are told to by commercials

>>16445675
Where's all the people of color?

>>16445268
there's an epidemic of obese 6 month olds

Its the insulin resistance stupid. Obesity is just another symptom.

>>16445697
Largest racial group in Hawaii is asians

>>16444198
No fucking way the UK up there with the US.

>>16445804
kneel before ronald mcdonald

>>16444271
Supermarkets here still have fresh produce that doesn't have any preservatives. You don't have to pass the fresh produce and bakery sections to go straight to the freezer section.

>>16445804
I meant "No way the UK isn't up there with the US." Everyone in the UK looks like a rounded blob creature.

>>16445777
A lot of people give kids at that age juice and soda to drink instead of just milk and water. See them already having bad teeth problems because of it too.

>>16445804
Considering its not even top 20 shows just how bad the world has gotten

>bigger meal sizes
why is this bad? more food means more nutrition. it means more energy. more fuel.
you can get bigger, stronger. just USE the energy for god's sake. run, lift, stretch. you will become powerful.
>high carb, high sugar
what the fuck who cares? carbs are just energy
>refined sugar, processed foods, artificial ingredients, high fructose corn syrup, or other "bad things"
if the FDA approved them, they're fine. stop reading clickbait news articles that tell you these things are bad.
>not enough vegetables
this is complete cope. vegetables are nothing special.
they just happen to offer a wide variety of vitamins and minerals while being very low in calories.
vegetables seem tempting to people who never work out because they can't use all of the calories they take in.
>not enough fruits
so sugar is bad but fruits are good? ok retard.
>fat acceptance movements
ding ding ding. we have a winner. this is the reason why fatties exist. they're allowed to sit around and do nothing.
they're told they can be healthy and beautiful at any weight, a dangerous lie.
if you take in 3k calories a day and don't burn it off, what the fuck do you expect? it's not some kind of big mystery.

>>16445770
Hanging from the tree branches in the back.

>>16445888
>>not enough fruits
>so sugar is bad but fruits are good? ok retard.
Yes. Fruit contains many other beneficial things. Consuming lots of pure protein isn't good either, doing that can make you sick as well. Just like consuming high amounts of refined vegetable oil wouldn't be good either. Processing food to strip away nutritious parts seems to cause a lot of problems, which applies to every macronutrient.

>>16445888
>so sugar is bad but fruits are good?
Fiber is the antidote to sugar and fruit are loaded with fiber.

>>16445912
Some study I looked at have also said that the phytochemicals in fruit can have beneficial effects on blood sugar as well, though I'm not sure if that's 100% proven.

>>16444198
No government has accurate data shared with the world.

Know how I know this map is crap? Cuba has no overweight people. They are starving for at least 10-15 years in food shortages. No matter how much money you have, you can't buy anything but subsistance levels of food.

>>16445950
I've been to Cuba and there's plenty of fatties there, just because the food is poor quality doesn't mean it's not unhealthy and they can't eat a lot of it.

>>16445950
>No matter how much money you have, you can't buy anything but subsistance levels of food.
also bullshit
you've clearly never been so don't talk out your arse

>>16445330

There's famine in NK right now, and China dealt with it a generation ago. Asian collectivists can be absolute retards when it comes to agriculture.

what about Jordan though what the fuck

>>16446764
thats what happens when you retire you cant just expect to keep your athletic physique when youre no longer an athlete

>>16444198
why are lab rats on controlled diets becoming more obese though?
https://slimemoldtimemold
com/2021/07/13/a-chemical-hunger-part-iii-environmental-contaminants/

>>16445675
I know, right? it feels like you're going crazy. feels especially ridiculous when all those modern landwhales claim it's "genetics" or "thyroid". yeah right, you probably weigh more than your mom and grandmom combined. you used to stand out for being fat, now people stand out for being thin. this feels like something out of anti-utopian comedy, but it's not.

>>16445684
heres a map ONLY for white, non-hispanic adults. they base it on self-reported data from 2011, but it actually didnt change the picture at all from 2010 and prior.

>>16444198
Third world countries are skinny because food distribution is fucked up.
First world countries are skinny because intensive fat shaming. Plus even though Japan and SK are first world, the cost of living is so fucking high most folk can't afford to get fat anyways.

>>16445684
heres another map for a total, not just whites. just look at how it gets worse every year

>>16444198
I'm guessing this is another stupid BMI statistic that would call 90% of the NBA obese for having muscle.

>>16447271
People harp on BMI a lot for giving false positives for fat-based obseity, but are there studies that estimate how common this is?

>>16447271
95% of the population isn't very athletic and most of their excess weight is in fat tissue not muscle. even if that were true we still also have epidemics of diabetes, fatty liver, heart disease, cancer, gout, etc that all strongly associate with obesity and diabetes

>>16444198
we're a country of food addicts

end of thread end of discussion you are stupid. there is food for literally every demographic that has ever existed on the entire planet here. and you wonder why there are more fat people in a county of 350 million, when we are bombarded with food and drink commercials all day every day

>>16447267
Based iowa and missouri for losing weight between 2018 and 2019

>>16445814
thats true. UK is the fattest country in Europe, unless you count Turkey. the data on the map below is from 2016 or 2017 too, so now its gotten even worse, near 30%.

Because at one point McDonald's sold double cheeseburgers and buffalo ranch mchickens for $1 each and you didn't even have to leave your car for them. Who could resist that, that will make a fiend for life out of anyone

>>16447297
Yeah that's probably true too but I feel like BMI is fucking stupid. Body fat % should be used. My one friend who did 95 pushups in 2 minutes and ran a 10 minute mile with a broken leg is considered overweight by BMI standards.

>>16447314
double cheeseburgers where I live are buy one get one and only cost $2.

>>16445888
>just USE the energy for god's sake. run, lift, stretch.
you know what they say: you cant outrun a bad diet. if you eat 5k cals a day, you have to run a fucking marathon every day too. thats just not realistic for 99% of people.
>vegetables are nothing special.
>so sugar is bad but fruits are good? ok retard.
calorie density. fiber. micronutrients. gut health. fruits are not just "sugar".

>>16447331
You're leaving out the most important variable. Satiety. What is most satiating? The answer is protein and fat. Obese people are always hungry because they are insulin resistant and can't burn the fat stores they have. This can be alleviated somewhat by exercise but really it needs to resolved by dietary change.

>>16444198
>Government subsidize corn
>Can make sugar syrup from subsidized corn
>Put cheap, addictive corn syrup in all foods to lower their prices and increase consumption.
It's really not rocket science, anon

>>16444198
Bad ideas about diet starting in the 50s and coming to a head in the 70s-80s. I mean for god sake there’s a Seinfeld episode about how they cram a bunch of non-fat yogurt into their mouths and then are shocked to find that they gained weight. Clearly the show is an exaggeration but it’s true that Americans thought low fat diets were healthy, not paying any mind to the idea that shoveling bread and pasta down your throat probably wasn’t the best idea, even if it didn’t exactly make you feel full.

>>16447264
>Plus even though Japan and SK are first world, the cost of living is so fucking high most folk can't afford to get fat anyways.
nah. poor countries can be way more obese than rich ones. fucking Libya has high obesity. mexico too.
"poor = thin" only applies to literally starving countries in Africa and socialist shitholes like venezuela and NK. go anywhere above that, and obesity is not out of question.

>>16447350
Not only that but you also have populations that aren't getting enough calories/nutrients yet get obese anyway. In the literature it gets called "the dual burden of obesity and malnutrition" or something like that.

>>16444198
American classical liberalism combined with jewish anti-normality propaganda, it was the perfect storm for self justification of hedonism.

>>16447340
that is very arguable. fast food has enough fat and protein, people still get fat. in fact, US has tons of deep fried food, and lo and behold, poorer southern states are the most obese ones.

>>16447356
Anon what does this have to do with people getting fat?

>>16447357
Yeah maybe. But you have to remember the proportion of fat and protein is going to be relatively lower due to all the refined carbohydrate and sugar that gets added to fast food. So while it may have some fat and protein it also has the foodstuffs that will cause your blood sugar and insulin to subsequently spike.

>>16447363
>>16447344
that doesn correlate at all to what thin countries eat. Japan eats tons of rice, as does Asia in general. Italy is still one of the thinnest countries in EU. vice versa, in america people consume tons of butter, milk, dairy, meat, probably more than anywhere in the world.
"America fell for low fat meme" is hardly true as American diet has always had a shitton of fat and got even more fat in it it recent years. junk food is almost always high fat except for soda.

>>16447415
Those "thin" countries also tend to eat relatively low amounts of sugar compared to the US even if they do eat significant carbohydrate. And yes we did fall for the lowfat meme but perhaps even moreso was the huge increase in vegetable oils which are present in nearly all processed foods.

>>16447415
There is no causal information here but just some food for thought.

>>16447350
Then I guess its just purely cultural. I mean, i have seen some horrific mexican food webms on here, and also the amount of soda drank seems to make a big difference.

>>16447415
Also noteworthy is that the increase in calories since the explosion of the obesity epidemic has been in the carbohydrate content of the diet.

A handful of companies produce all the food in the US.

The lettuce you buy in a grocery store, supermarket, McDonalds comes from the same factory.

It consists of water, sugar and carbon (which is sugar too). It's candy, not nutrition.

Good luck.

>>16445950
>reads something a teenager on your favourite social media site writes below a frog cartoon
>it now becomes an inviolable fact and part of your belief system
>you repeat it whenever you get the chance
>it's embarrassingly incorrect and any remotely intelligent human being laughs at you for it
every time

>>16447461
i had a graph showing exactly the opposite. heres a different one i found. added fat in foods increased dramatically with plant oils. regardless, these graphs vary so wildly that it's impossible to assess them without looking at how they got their figures

>>16447494
are you insinuating lettuce makes america fat?

>>16447518
Yeah this is mainly based off of food availability data AFAIK and isn't a good indicator because its hard to calculate the food the gets wasted. At the very least we can say that since 70s with the intro of the USDA guidelines there was a big push for low fat products in the markets. If theres no fat its gonna be carbs and they usually add sugar to make it taste better. Low fat yogurt being one such example that was once and maybe still is promoted as being a "healthy" food while being loaded with sugar.

>>16444383
>>16444465
it really is frightening how right you are
I eat balanced meals and exercise regularly and I am just barely inside of my healthy BMI
Live in the southeast and many of my coworkers and family members as well think I'm too skinny
needless to say most of these people have tub gut

processed foods contain very few actual nutrients your body can use and so you're eating a higher volume of food, most of which is sugar or unhealthy fats, to get the nutrients your body wants. And people drink sugary drinks like water. People are fat because they are stupid. Period.

>>16447550
Except we've been telling people for decades that fat makes you fat and you need to eat a low fat diet for heart health and weight loss. The real problem which was ignored for decades but now seen as low hanging fruit is the metric fuckton of sugar in every processed food nowadays.

>>16447267
>only state in the green for the whole decade is Colorado
WTF

>>16447459
i think culture is hard to assess but it surely plays a huge role many people arent aware about.
in Korea and Japan, being fat is considered very undesirable. you know how Asian moms constantly shame their kids for being fat. it's an incredibly unwanted quality that only few can pass with.
this poster >>16447356 may sound wrong, but he has a point. US culture is all about muh freedoms. theres little to no social pressure anymore—on the contrary, people made it a virtue to tolerate literally anything. and with the ideal of "American dream" also came love for indulgence.
the result—people said "this is america—we do what we want, we'll eat as much as we can, and no one can stop it; fuck health, fuck social norms, you're all just jealous third worlders". and thats how we got you what you got, at least a big part of it.

>>16447542
>Low fat yogurt
>loaded with sugar
really? examples please. low fat yoghurt with low sugar is a staple for dieting, high protein is great for weight loss. of course a sweet yoghurt isn't so great, but surely it's not as much of a culprit as junk food, beer and soda.
regardless, the problem is, how far did low fat dogma really extend? dairy? sure, yeah. except then people went and ate tons of vegetable oils and food fried in it, as well as lots of fatty meat, etc. butter too. not surprising American south has always been ahead of the nation in obesity.
and virtually all of junk food is high in fat, too, like i mentioned, except for soda. unless we're talking what, skittles and sugary cereals?

>>16447632
>high protein is great for weight loss.
Better than high fat + moderate protein? I doubt it...

>>16447331
>11 servings of pasta.

>>16447640
why? protein has very high satiety and prevents muscle mass loss. actual weight loss specialists who base their approach on science agree that high protein is great for weight loss. in the fitness / bodybuildig community, people who drop to <10% body fat almost always keep their protein intake high.
keto tries to prove that insulin is key and that fat doesnt spike it. however, protein raises insulin by itself, so you'd have to eat a diet of pure lard or oils if you want truly low insulin. and overall the connection "less insulin = more weight loss" is very arguable and not as clear as keto implies at all. actual meta analysis studies concluded that while keto may have some benefits in weight loss, they are not significant, and any approach works as long as you meet macro requirements.

>>16447682
>protein has very high satiety
True but fat does as well.
>protein raises insulin by itself
Yes which is why the ketogenic diet is moderate, not high protein. The insulin response from protein is significant but still lower than what you get from carbohydrate.
>actual meta analysis studies concluded that while keto may have some benefits in weight loss, they are not significant
I'm pretty sure this is false if you consider the fact that those meta analyses that show no advantage tend to include 40% carb diets as "low carb." Also relevant is that low carb diets are not calorie restricted like other prescribed diets. Pic related is relevant and provides links to all the RCTs

>>16444198
>1) abandoning good old home cooked meals for high calorie density junk food/fast food

Japan has almost triple the number of restaurants and more fast food/junk food in its convenience stores than the united states has. Very skinny place which also has requirements that middle age men submit to yearly weight screenings and maintain appropriate weights or else their company is fined.

>2) culture of tolerance and individualism enabling the fatties and their indulgence

Canada and Mexico have similar levels of obesity and dissimilar cultures. New Zealand also seems to be pretty fat. Looks like we are missing what the problem is in the United States.

I am going to assume the problem is probably the composition of the foods we eat as a meal and the availability of different kinds of food to eat.

>>16447767
>Japan
Everybody brings up Japan but never talks about their low sugar consumption. Also they have actually been eating more meat and animal products since the 70s and their already low rates of heart disease have fallen even lower due to a drop in stroke rates.

>>16447572
True. I think we should bring back it being socially acceptable to poke/pinch/rub peoples fat guts, slap around moobs, and calling out people when they gain weight like they do in Japan/SK.

I hear if you are a fat japanese (not gaijin, they expect you to be fat), and you are fat and eating with other japanese, they will offer you their food saying shit like "HERE, YOU EAT, YOU SO FAT YOU LOVE TO EAT"

>>16447789
This is based on false assumption about what causes obesity and is useless in getting people to actually change their behavior. What people need to do is change what they eat not necessarily how much. If you eat good healthy food your body will take care of the quantity part.

>>16447767
Huh? In what sense is Canada's culture dissimilar to the US?

>>16447545
i know. i've seen plenty /fit/ people actually complain about that too. it really distorts your perception of what "normal" actually is. it's like you look at those fatties on facebook saying "look at her, she looks malnourished", and you laugh them off as freaks. and then you realize half the society is obese and you look like a freak to them.
one thing that hits me the most is that this obesity is really a thing of the last 3 decades or so. for thousands of years before that, people were mostly thin. then some mere 30 years pass and suddenly the society got so fat that they decided that you're too skinny. it's staggering how quickly public perception can change when people accept something freakish as a new norm. it's like a psyop except it happened on its own.

>>16447812
American "cuisine" is healthier than Canada's national dish (stolen from Quebec, ofc)

>>16447767
>Japan has almost triple the number of restaurants and more fast food/junk food in its convenience stores than the united states has.
availability =/= consumption. just because they have this food doesnt mean they will overeat. also i'm really, really not sure about your claim, hope you can provide a source.
regardless, it boils down to how acceptable it is to stuff your face with junk food, chug soda and subsist on a diet of fast food, as well as quantities. i think i've never seen a japanese person consume family sizes of food like in US unless its those mukbang videos or sumos. not eating too much seems to be their strict social rule.
>Canada and Mexico have similar levels of obesity and dissimilar cultures.
Canadian obesity is at 27.7 percent, not low but lower than UK and would be acceptable in EU. and remember, obesity is typically higher in rural areas.
Mexico is different story, but alas i dont know enough about mexican attitude to food.

>>16447888
What the fuck are you talking about?

I lived in Florida my whole life but do to career changes I moved to Tennessee. An hour outside Nashville. Not even super rural, but def country. No fucking joke, the trashier people here don't eat ANY vegetables. I made a friend I made and his girlfriend a very fucking basic pasta dish. Like college tier. It was a drunk easy shit meal. Peppers, onions, pasta, olive oil, and cheese. No joke, the guy and his girlfriend were polite but I notice they were eating around the onions and peppers. I was like, what the fuck man. It's not even Brussel sprouts or raw carrots. fucking cooked onions and peppers. Poor Americans just dont eat healthy their whole lives. Just nuggets and meat and potatoes.

As far as the entire culture, I have no idea. Probably because fast food is cheap and Americans are overworked and lazy. I know a ton of jobs "offer" overtime and the economy isnt great towards the working class. Maybe lots of people just work 10 hour days and say fuck it and get into the habit of buying fast food. Idk, I love to cook so I don't understand. I'd rather have a struggle meal that I season myself and will be good then shell out 7$ minimum for food thats "good" but makes you feel shit 10 minutes later. I love a fucking greasy McDouble with fries but I just know I'll be groggy and bloated if I eat it.

>>16447809
>If you eat good healthy food your body will take care of the quantity part.
imagine thinking that. no it won't, because CICO. you can lose weight only eating junk food as long as you stay in calorie deficit, it's been proven. but people gained plenty weight just eating healthy food. sumos gain weight eating chanko, i can guarantee you it's "healthier" than any processed food but it's still a fuckton of calories.
but it's very clear that EU, having about same availability of food, still has less obesity than US. yes, it may have to do with attitudes to processed foods, fast food, etc. but it also has to do with attitudes to eating a lot. while not outright taboo, in EU eating shitloads of food and being fat is not as accepted as in US. the very attitude to junk food and fast food is different and its important too.

>>16447923
>No joke, the guy and his girlfriend were polite but I notice they were eating around the onions and peppers.
this is fucked. i'm Russian and people have almost religious attitude to vegetables and growing them in their shitty gardens. doesnt help that we're poor, but certainly most poor people will buy vegetables regardless.
i knew americans are raised without having to eat veggies and all, and can have shitty palates… but this is next level. see, that's what i mean by "everything is allowed, you do what you want" culture. you let people eat what they want, they'll eat like that and get fat.

>>16444198
Is it really that complicated? American bread is basically fucking cake. Also all the soda they drink is insane.

>>16447999
bread alone doesn't explain it

>>16447923
I would have ate around the onions. I don't like stringy onions at all in my food. I use them in my cooking for their flavor, but I usually try to make them disappear. I love most other vegetables and most of my meals are just veggies and meat with a little bit of some whole grain.

>>16448006
bread, soda and sweets does

>>16448006
The pop does. I worked in a grocery store in Kentucky and people would have one cart for their groceries. (Some meat, frozen shit, snack cakes, taco stuff maybe) and a whole cart full of 4 to 6 24 packs of canned mountain dew or coke or pepsi.

>>16444271
>>16444284
This also corn subsidies mean we put corn syrup in everything

>>16448018
some people like to demonize carbs. i can understand it when people drink soda like water. but who the fuck eats that much bread? i dont know many loaves you'd have to eat to get that fat.
people seem to miss forest for the trees when they blame bread and pasta and forget the elephant in the room that is liters of soda, beer, and tons of junk food that people eat beside that.
>>16448019
truth. drinking that much soda is only normal in US.
>>16448050
if not corn, they'd probably just put regular sugar in it. still same cheap shit

>>16447999
In Serbia we eat bread with everything and we're not fat. But our bread is bread and not fucking cake, I guess that's why.

>>16445888
Thanks for posting this
I hate fat people

That said, eat your vegetables

>>16448334
I'd bet a lot of money your sugar consumption is also a pittance relative US or UK levels.

Portion sizes mostly. But the real reason is that they can't cook.

Obviously restaurants and companies that make frozen food will err on the side of large portions - your customers will complain and stop buying if you give them too little, but too much is "good value". So most people get too much food. Saving the extra for leftovers is a pain because the food doesn't keep well, and even if it does, they don't know how to reheat it properly because they can't cook.
Now, they could just throw out the extra food and they'd still be fine.But they're taught from a young age to clean their plate and not "waste food". So they force themselves to eat it all every time, until they gradually learn to associate the bloated feeling with being "full" aka satisfied. At that point it's all over.

Sugar doesn't help obviously but I still think this is the main reason. If you specifically cook the portions you want to eat, you won't get fat. Of course, if you've fucked yourself into associating bloat with "fullness", it doesn't matter, you'll always over-eat.

>>16444198
Mexican immigrants. It's not the whole reason, but it's a sizable component to why obesity is such a huge problem.

The people work low end jobs with not much income per person, so they have a low end diet. High sodium, high cholesterol, high carbs. You get the idea. Cheap food. These people eat this stuff for breakfast, lunch and dinner. This goes for all races in the US, but it effects them more than any other race.

Why? I don't know. I am not a schooler.
Also black people have a high rate of it as well. Color me surprised. That was sarcasm.

https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2019/18_0579.htm

>>16448386
Image for the chart for those of you who are too lazy to click the link.

>>16448386
to an extent you're right, but they only skew the obesity rate that much. your data is from 2015-2017, one in this post >>16447258 (You) is from 2017-2019. compare this to the total in 2019 (picrelated), it's still fucking high. yes, minorities may skew the obesity rate several % in places where theres a lot of them. doesn't change the fact that most white people in the South are obese as fuck, and white-only obesity rate was at 29.9% total for US. you can guess how it got worse by now after COVID. that is still higher than any country in Europe, although UK may be close by now.

>>16444198
Culture of self indulgence, and beauty at any size.

>>16448526
actually my bad, heres a white only map with 2017-2019 data
you can tell CA, AZ and NM are less red, but the rest is still about same.

>>16444198
A lot of people keep mentioning food, but most of you keep ignoring the fact that you're dead weight in America if you don't have a car. Decent Asian countries eat a fuck ton of carbs and fried food, but at least they don't rely solely on cars for travel or even getting food. The anon here had the right idea >>16447415 but didn't connect the facts on how most of these countries had actual city planning where you can walk or bike to places.

I know the large portion shit doesn't help and how we have sugar and corn syrup in almost everything, but I feel being almost always sedentary will increase the problem.

>>16448573
>Decent Asian countries eat a fuck ton of carbs and fried food
>fuck ton
Do they really though? Sure, most of the meal might be fried chicken, but I'm pretty sure the portion sizes are tiny by US standards. That said, in my experience even something like karaage cames with miso soup, cabbage, a variety of picked stuff, etc. and the large variety of food would "trick" you into thinking you ate a lot. But it really wasn't THAT much.

American food comes with fillers too but fries and soda are orders of magnitude worse than pickled ginger or whatever else. Fried food itself is not enough to make you fat, you need way too large portions and doubling down on unhealthy shit even for the sides. I'm sure cars don't help but I doubt that's the main reason.

>>16448592
Well from what I've seen, a lot of people in Asian countries eat 2-3 cups of rice minimum everyday, and rice in large quantities isn't that healthy. Maybe it's because the portion is small like you said so it's not a problem.
>American food comes with fillers too but fries and soda are orders of magnitude worse than pickled ginger or whatever else.
Yeah obviously, especially with how most people here rely on take-outs but then again a lot of other countries do the same thing. Most popular shit here is garbage junk food so you might be right.

>>16448573
you may have a point. however, I am pretty sure that much most adults in the West drive to work, sit there X hours a day, then drive back home. i agree in some countries they may use public transport, but not like you walk to work daily.
I mean, look at Egypt or Libya for extreme example. they have way fewer cars. Mexico has fewer cars too, still obese. Italy has fuckton of cars per capita, still thinner than most of EU.

>>16448642
>2-3 cups of rice minimum everyday
>rice in large quantities isn't that healthy
how so? and Japan still has better health than most of US, and remains one of the thinnest countries in the world. not the greatest example of "unhealthy" food.

You put sugar in everything and the American palette is comparable to swine.

You ever had a European soda? It has real fruit juice in it, double the amount of American.

A European Fanta is a sparkling delight of juice. An American Fanta is sugar water mixed with corn syrup concentrate food extract thah tastes of shit.

Your mind reflects your body and America is sick and disgusting to look at I spit on you *pehpeh*

>>16448646
I'm more thinking on the day-to-day life in those countries compared to the US. It's understandable that they might go to work via car, but they have the option for public transport or at least they can go walk or bike to other places. If I want to go to a Mall here or any event, then I have no choice but to use a car.

>>16448659
1 cup of dry rice is around 640 calories. Their diet is also carb heavy where they eat bread ans also sweets when I went there. Shit like Gyudon and other dishes they have are full of fats and carbs, but they have a way active lifestyle. The diet certainly plays the biggest role since most people eat junk food here, though, I can't deny that part, but I'm wondering if it the situation gets improved if most people didn't rely on using cars 95% of the time.

>>16448681
>If I want to go to a Mall here or any event, then I have no choice but to use a car.
i dont know if thats any different in EU but i get what you mean, it just boils down to how much they walk. and let's be honest here, few short walks every week won't burn many calories. you have to be health conscious in general and Americans aren't.
>1 cup of dry rice is around 640 calories.
wait, are you telling me they eat 3 cups of dry rice, so 9 cups of cooked rice a day? that's like 3lb of cooked rice a day, are you sure?
if you meant cooked rice, 3 cups is about 600 cals. not too much, not too little. add fat + protein from meat, and some other stuff, and you get around nice 2k calories without overeating.

>>16444198
I'd bet my money on it being something like a wealth to food cost ratio. If you're wealthy and food is subsidized by the government making it artificially cheap, obesity goes up. If you're poor, or are well off but food is expensive then obesity goes down.

>>16444271
Doesn't sound too different from Australia, which still makes the fatty list.

>>16447258
>>16447267
What makes Colorado so powerful?

>>16448141
>if not corn, they'd probably just put regular sugar in it
If America is fine to rely on South America for imports then yea.
But that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Likely they'd tax the imports such that corn is cheaper, or produce sugar cane locally but at American labor prices, bringing up the cost significantly. Which means they'd start skimping on the sugar.

>>16448860
>>16447565
i actually made a thread about that 2 years ago: >>12658722
some answers from it:
"Culture and weather. People actually go outside and walk around without sweating/freezing their balls off most of the time, it’s bicycle friendly, and there’s a more encouraging attitude towards exercise than other states. The only thing that sucks is smoking; a LOT of people in Colorado smoke when compared to other states, which is nasty (tobacco)."
"Lots of bicyclists, lots of hiking trails (including one that is basically a 15 mile pub crawl where you spend all day going drink->walk it off->drink->walk it off->etc), lots of mountain climbing, lots of hipsters and college students, lots of skiing, generally good weather. Top that off with the high altitude, which speeds up your metabolism, and it works out pretty well."
"Rockies
Ski
Rich people
Bike everywhere
Denver
Boulder
US Olympic Committee Training Center"

>>16448383
>Obviously restaurants and companies that make frozen food will err on the side of large portions
They don't though. The frozen meal market is dominated by health food companies ala Lean Cuisine and Weight Watchers. But rather than creating low calorie meals they've just shrunk the portion sizes. So what you see in supermarkets are half meal portions and nobody complaining because it seems healthy.

For the most part the idea behind bulk buying is to trick the customer into buying more than they need, resulting in them throwing it out. Which is while you'll see good bulk buy deals on fresh produce and fuck all on frozen produce.

I think the real issue is misinformation. Australia is probably the worst at this despite not overly subsidizing food, having strict labelling laws, and having small portion sizes. They provide a 5 star health rating on foods, but there seems to be no real goal behind the ratings so you'll simultaneously see sugar free alternatives given good ratings because they're low calorie, but nuts also given a high rating because they contain healthy fats (and absurdly high calories). And calories per unit weight seems to be ignored, so you'll get unfairly good ratings for crisps and the above mentioned frozen meals.

The US is similar with "journalists" misrepresenting studies followed by talk shows telling you chocolate is the secret to weight loss.

>>16448386
Mexicans are only a high proportion of Mexico and USA's populations though. There's plenty of obese countries (and even America-like countries like Australia) that have near zero Mexican populations. And they're certainly not moving to the third world countries on the list.

>>16448867
yeah it depends on tariffs etc, but honestly, sugar is like vegetable oil, it's pretty darn cheap and is the easiest way to add calories at low cost. so again, we get another source of "added sugar" that is everywhere, maybe slightly more expensive but still dirt cheap. in the end swapping HFCS for sugar won't do shit if all food in US is just as sweet. whether you chug 2l of soda with HCFS or sugar makes little difference in the grand scheme of things.

>>16448573
Actually I did read a study indicating that the key to minimizing obesity is planning neighborhoods such that shops/school/work/public transport are all within a 20 min walk of any house.
So you want a high population density and no separation of commercial, residential, and business zoning.
That's very hard to do in my city because we have very strict building height regulations that vary widely between those zones, and we don't have the kind of inner city suburbia where you have blocks of housing units (you're either in an apartment sky scraper or in a one story house).

>>16448592
>fries
Potatoes are king of satiation. And they're not that high calories. So unless you're leaning hard into string fries and hard away from wedges (maximizing oil consumption), it's actually better than padding with bread or rice.
Soup is a non factor, since as soon as you're done processing the water you're hungry again.

>>16444198
It has to do with the fat fear of the 80s and 90s. Food companies replaced delicious fats with sugar (mostly HFCS) which you need more of to feel satiated. Also more blacks and Mexicans and their bad genes affecting the curve.

>>16448958
BOILED potatoes are, and only accoding to several studies. anything deep fried is certainly not great for weight loss at all. eating greasy food is how they get fat in middle east despite being poor.

>>16448958
Uhhh... have you ever eaten french fries before? It's way easier to eat a potato's worth of fries than a baked potato. I'd argue that potatoes are insanely easy to overeat when combined with lots of fat, as with french fries or mashed potatoes.
Potatoes alone are fine, fat in general (like fatty cuts of meat) are fine. But fats and starch when combined properly can be pretty dangerous. It's much easier to avoid this trap when you cook and realize exactly how many potatoes went into those fries.

>>16448944
those studies omit the easiest solution, just not eating like a fat fuck. i think what would happen in US would be people just driving everywhere on cars or mobility scooters.
and planning like this actually has a ton of issues because you need every necessity crammed into small space and it's just not easy to do. cars allow for much more flexible planning so that you dont need a hospital / school / shop every 2 miles. and putting "work" within 20 minute walk distance for everyone is just absurd
technically, Russia is a lot like this. build a bunch of commie blocks, then build all necessities around them. it was built with no car ownership in mind, only public transport. nowadays its completely crammed and we have worst traffic jams and overcrowded public transport here in the world here in Moscow, as well as ridiculous prices for flats that are like 30-40 m2 at best. moral of the story: just have cars and suburbs.

>>16448944
those studies omit the easiest solution, just not eating like a fat fuck. i think what would happen in US would be people just driving everywhere on cars or mobility scooters.
and planning like this actually has a ton of issues because you need every necessity crammed into small space and it's just not easy to do. cars allow for much more flexible planning so that you dont need a hospital / school / shop every 2 miles. and putting "work" within 20 minute walk distance for everyone is just absurd
technically, Russia is a lot like this. build a bunch of commie blocks, then build all necessities around them. it was built with no car ownership in mind, only public transport. nowadays it's completely crammed and we have worst traffic jams in the world and overcrowded public transport here in Moscow, as well as ridiculous prices for flats that are like 30-40 m2 at best. moral of the story: just have cars and suburbs.

>>16447357
>fast food has enough fat and protein
Fat, yeah, since a lot of it is deep fried. There actually isn't a ton of protein with most fast food since that's usually the most expensive component, unless you make it a point to order double burgers or something like that. If you get a basic combo meal from most places most of your calories are going to be coming from fat and carbs, including a ton of sugar from soda.

>>16449093
i'd say stuff like decent burgers or chicken actually has reasonable amount of protein. but yeah, the problem is that this protein comes bundled with lots of carbs and oozing with fat.
i have a suspicion that the worst enemy isn't actually the burgers, nuggets, KFC and so on. rather, it is junk food that is high carb, high fat, little to no protein. cheez-its, little debbies, chips, and all other trash that people probably munch through the day. pair it with lack of vegetables, and you get a recipe for disaster.

>>16449119
>oozing with fat
I don't think fat is the issue desu. We've had years of marketing "low-fat" in America and it just made things worse if anything. Fat has a pretty good satiety/calorie ratio. In fact, I've personally noticed that for dairy products whole is MUCH more satiating than nonfat, despite the fact that the calorie difference isn't much.

I think specific combos stop the normal satiety mechanism from working, mostly:
>sugar
>sugary liquids
>sugar + fat (think cakes, desserts, etc.)
>carbs + fat (fries, etc.)
Notice something in common? Yeah, it's the fucking sugar. Fat is an assist at best.

There is a bit of a danger with fat, but it's not the fat itself, but frying to drive water out of food, which makes it less satiating with the same or more calorie content. I've noticed this even with veg, for example if you steam a head of broccoli it's hard to eat all of it, but if you roast it in oil it's really easy. Part of that is that it physically shrinks, but has even more calories than before.

>>16449190
whole milk is already a pretty low fat drink, there's not much point to it. cup of whole milk is 150 cals, cup of fat free milk is 90 cals. a difference is there but it's not worth the hassle. eating tons of butter or drinking coffee with heavy cream is a different story though. same with fatty meat vs lean meat, etc. that's the stuff people should be worried about, not milk per se.
>There is a bit of a danger with fat, but it's not the fat itself
on the one hand, yes. regardless of food, increasing calorie density is usually a bad idea. and fat + carbs is an evil combo.
on the other though, same can be said about carbs. it depends, not all carbs are equal. there's a big difference between sugar water with acid masking all the sugar, and for example zucchini or potatoes. there's a reason why boiled potatoes are said to have high satiety. and while pasta or rice are not perfect by any means, if you consume them in average quantities, paired with a serving of vegetables, there's literally nothing wrong with them.
vice versa, South is known for deep fried food and its general affinity for fat, butter, etc, and you know they are the fattest region in US. you could say this is fried food, true. but the problem is, meat is usually fried, regardless. maybe not deep fried, but still fried. unless you want to boil everything and get flavorless meat. and where does fat come with water anyway? in milk, then maybe in soups, which americans don't eat much of. ok, maybe avocado. maybe i'm missing something though, but that's it from the top of my head.
fat alone is already dense enough. it's literally the highest calorie density macronutrient. and unlike sugar, which is dry without water, fat commonly is either liquid or soft.

Amazing how there's no universally agreed answer on a board of armchair nutrionists. I'm sure you all studied health at uni. lol.

>>16449275
>South is known for deep fried food and its general affinity for fat, butter, etc, and you know they are the fattest region in US
This is misleading, everyone has an affinity for fat, butter, etc. Asian countries have lots of fried food, prefer to eat fatty cuts of meat, yet are generally thin. French cuisine has been packed with butter for a long time, without obesity issues. Fat is beloved for many reasons, including great flavor, but the calories are not a problem so long as they come with matching satiety.

>where does fat come with water anyway?
Meat? Which is where fat mostly came from in the ancestral environment, so it makes sense the body could deal with it well that way. I personally doubt that something like roasted chicken thigh is going to make anyone fat.

Also, desu the south is a weird example because they're not even trying. It's off the charts in everything, carbs out the ass, lots of sugar, massive soda consumption. Hard to single out fat there.

Your mention of the acid in soda was good though. I think the human body is pretty good at self-regulating, but the real problem is that if you give big companies the incentive to defeat that mechanism, they will find a way. Soda is amazingly well engineered to create fatties.

>>16444198
Saturated fat was replaced with sugar.

>>16444198
Lack of manual labour is a huge part of it. The easier jobs become the less active people are. Just look at farm kids. Most are built like a brick shit house. Usually the ones that are fat don't actually do any of the farm work.

>>16449071
What on earth makes you think not eating like a fat fuck is the easiest solution? You think people are putting dedicated effort into being fat like some kind of body builder and all they need to do is stop moving their mouths?
Not changing your eating habits and saving time on your commute while simultaneously partaking in light exercise is way fucking easier.

And what is with your pants on head retarded claim that making it easier to walk to work and the shops increases traffic? Not only does it reduce the number of cars in use, it reduces the distance anyone travels in cars.

Overcrowded public transport is a problem. Of course having more people using public transport also means public transport is more profitable, so improving public transport infrastructure is a given.

> build a bunch of commie blocks, then build all necessities around them
Sounds like the opposite of my suggestion. I said no residential zoning, not extreme residential zoning.

Everybody in a 30km radius driving to and from the city every day is not the solution to your traffic problems.

>>16449190
>but frying to drive water out of food, which makes it less satiating
You're looking at it wrong. You want to be satiated long term. You're not going to hack your way to fullness with soup. You're just going to be hungry again in 30 minutes.
>Part of that is that it physically shrinks, but has even more calories than before
Skip the oil you dunce.

Fat as a whole = not bad.
Oil specifically = bad.

He's right about super high surface area deep fried things like crisps being terrible. Crisps have like 3 times the calories of rice / bread, and twice the calories of beef.

And unlike sugar it's far harder to cut out oil when eating out.

>>16449020
This

A baked potato slathered with enough butter to give it equivalent calories to a potato-sized serving of fries is somehow 10x more filling than that serving of fries.

>>16449275
>a difference is there but it's not worth the hassle
If you make three cuts like this you're at a happy calorie deficit.

>>16449315
There's no universally agreed answer among the current literature, or the dietician community either.

>>16449390
It's not about water being satiating. You need some level of moisture for the body to recognize fat properly and account for it. That's why crispy things are dangerous.
It's not just the oil. Easy experiment, try steaming carrots and toss with a little oil. Next, try roasting carrots with the same amount of oil. In my experience, steamed I'll probably be able to eat one decent-sized carrot and then I'll be done, roasted I could go through 4+ no problem. Maybe your experience is different but the contrast is very stark for me.
Obviously no one got fat off roasted carrots it's just an example for how satiety changes

>>16449398
You won't be because nonfat milk is much less satiating, you'll just make up the difference somewhere else. Probably net loss

>>16449332
>This is misleading, everyone has an affinity for fat, butter, etc.
not necessarily. of course theres very few cultures with truly low fat diets. and yeah, Southern diet is high-everything, not just high fat. and yet the amount of fat in their diet is simply staggering. i'm not sure anywhere in the world people can eat as much deep fried stuff. it's like fat fried in oil.
i'm saying that if fat truly had this amount of satiety, no way they'd stay that fat. and we'd have deep fried butter for weight loss. except it's pretty much the opposite of that.
fat is very much needed in diet, don't get me wrong—fat is good when consumed in reasonable amounts, and a diet should have at least moderate amount of fat in it. but i'm really not sure if it really is that good for satiety as many people claim nowadays with keto and all, because a lot of US would be way thinner with all the added fats in our diet. and from the data i've seen, different studies show different things. some sites put lard etc. around the lowest satiety for example. overall, of course, eating a block of butter will satiate you very well, except it's also gonna be like 1440 calories which is not great.
>Asian countries have lots of fried food, prefer to eat fatty cuts of meat, yet are generally thin.
if we're talking chinese food, they have food scarcity to begin with and have strong social stigma against being fat, not to mention their focus on physical culture. plus, most asian food also has lots of rice too. so if you implied it's high fat, it's also high carb.
pretty sure that if you ate same quantities of deep fried Chinese food as people do with other deep fried stuff, you'd get fat pretty quick.

>>16449474
My hypothesis is that fat DOES have that satiety, but it isn't fully recognized without moisture. This explains why the satiety of fries, chips, etc is so bad, but not the buttery baked potato. You keep using deep frying as an example but again, it works by displacing so much water that you can't detect the oil properly.
In fact, for deep frying it's well known that if your oil is too low temperature, your food will taste "greasy". Chefs say this is because low temp causes the food to "absorb" more oil, but actually the opposite is true, higher temp drives out water which is replaced with oil. Under-temped deep fried food tastes "greasy" because you can actually taste the grease, whereas the proper technique lets the fat sneak through.

If this is the reason, I don't think stuff like using fatty pork vs lean pork, chicken thigh vs breast matters at all. The ketards could be totally right on this count.

>>16449398
you underestimate the average american calorie surplus
that's what i'm getting at, if you want to move from 2k to 1,5k calories—yeah sure it matters. but i'm talking about people who consume 3k, 4k, 5k daily.

>>16449548
That's only the people currently gaining weight. Most obese people are stably obese.

>>16449514
i think your example with carrots is slightly flawed because carrots are already 86–95% water, and frying breaks down fiber. so you could attribute steamed carrots being more filling to fiber and water content, which has more to do with satiety of the carrot. however, since fried carrots are dry, they need some sort of liquid to be edible, so oil substitutes for water and makes it easier to eat.
another problem i have with this is that you can even turn a salad into calorie bomb. just adds lots of mayo and/or oil. technically, moisture will be there, even with uncooked veggies. but there's gonna be so much fat it's not gonna matter much.

>>16449514
>>16449435
I think it should definitely be considered that processed foods may distort our perception of satiety.
when you think of it, in the nature, carbs and fats are balanced by something that increases satiety and makes us feel more full. for carbs, if we take vegetables and fruit, it's fiber and water (and to an extent starch that is just a more complex carb). for fat, if we take meat and milk, it's protein, and all the byproducts of meat industry like gelative, streaks, etc. both of these prevent us from overloading on carbs or fat, and balance things out nicely. not to mention, speaking of fruit, they're generally very hard to overeat on, even if you magically found abundance of fruit in nature.
then enter processed food. you have refined sugar, free of fiber and water, pretty much "pure" carbs. you have plant oil, free of protein, gelatin, etc, "pure fat". and then, also, these 2 get combined together. and also, there's soda, that takes huge amount of sugar masked with acid, which feels like juice but wouldn't ever be found in nature at these quantities.
result is, our body simply doesn't know when to stop, doesn't get a satiety signal that enough is enough, and people start overeating like crazy. we get tons of vegetable oil in our diet, juiciest, fattest cuts of meat without any streaks, and lots of sugar too. and the worst part, people hate eating veggies which were the main source of fiber.
i'm not a big eater, but one time i bought a bunch of chocolate bars with a big discount. i was pretty scared when i realized i could down 3k calories a day without feeling full. it felt like a chocolate just fell right through me. i think that combination of sugar and fat is simply evil, it fucks with your mind even if you're not eating much otherwise.

>>16444198
how is rwanda more obese than japan

>probably going to be going to the US for graduate school soon
>terrified I'll be trapped by their culture and diet into being a fat fuck
Skinny americans, how do I cope

>>16448390
Healthiest blacks in America.

Legendary.

>>16449739
If you cook, you should be fine as long as you avoid going really heavy on processed stuff. Whole foods? Pretty much totally safe. Restaurant/takeout portions are by far the biggest danger, they will mess you up if you let them and you'll gradually get used to overeating. Be prepared to take leftovers or throw out rather than stuff yourself too much.

>>16449739
Fish and whole wheat bread. Salmon is always a good option.

>>16449755
>>16449766
That all sounds really expensive as a grad student.

I don't know what is both cheap and healthy in america that I can subsist on a stingy stipend

>>16449777
Salmon isn't expensive and neither is salmon if you ration it out. Great value brand tilapia fillets are cheap and are just as good as salmon. If you're really that strapped for cash then get canned tuna or sardines.
Whole wheat bread is easy to find and cheap no matter where you go so long as you pay attention.
If you're super strapped for cash then go about it the old people way and clip coupons.

>>16448386
>welfare class is obesified
imagine my shock

>>16449336
The part where they talk about Stefannson's all meat diet was interesting. The researchers thought he'd get scuvy within months yet after a year of nothing but meat he was in "the greatest health of my life."

>>16444198
if you got rid of poor people, blacks, and hispanics America would be one of the least obese countries in the world

>>16444271
>that are driven to
What should be noticed here is that driving is in most of the US the only option to get around reasonably, while walking and cycling are close to impossible or attempted suicide.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uxykI30fS54

>>16447912
>Mexico is different story, but alas i dont know enough about mexican attitude to food.
Isn't the matter in Mexico and I think some other parts of latin america like Chile, that a fat child is considered a well-fed and healthy child, because just a generation ago malnourishment was still a serious problem?

>>16450100
You're right if we got rid of all people we'd have no people problems to worry about. Congratulations you've solved every human problem ever. You should take your own advice and walk into the ocean first we're all right behind you.

>>16444198
The government decided that corn is the cornerstone of the American Dream.

>>16445888
>if the FDA approved them, they're fine
Can't tell if stupid or shill. Don't just blindly accept it, do some follow up research. Hfcs is not good, no matter how much you think it is.

I moved to europe about 3 years ago, and i went from 190 lb to 155lb without changing much in terms of diet. The main thing that changes was me using public transport/biking/walking everywhere here since it's accessible. In USA I was pretty much going by car to work, to store/mall/whatever, and home. You really cant do without a car there, unless you live inside a big central city.

>>16449739
Just don't drink soda.

>>16444198
>Can never find proper Japanese BBW porn

This is some unfair fucking bullshit.

>>16445724
It's a measure of percentage of population, there is zero reason to exclude them since the categorization is between nations. The difference in population size, in terms of percentages, is smaller between Samoa and Lebanon than between Lebanon and America but they have no problem comparing Lebanon to America.

>>16447885
This. Also notice how often the whole 'b-but in the 16-1700s fat was considered a beauty standaes!' argument surfaces. Those paintings were literally fiction. To get fat off the healthy, non-processed foods they had back then would require insane amounts of money (sugar was very expensive, as was oil/fat), making it a status symbol to be fat, as it implied the depicted person was very wealthy and well-nourishes in a time where famine was a regular thing. Rubenesque paintings are literally the exception which proves the rule.

>>16444198
US work ethic and time values often prioritize minimal time spent cooking/eating, which encourages buying fast food and eating meals as quickly as possible, which results in overeating. US economic values also encourage "bang for your buck" deals which means fast food portions that are way larger than the portions in other countries, 40 oz sodas at gas stations, etc. Americans also love sugar and put it in everything.

>>16444198
How come burgers drink so much soda and eat so much sugar, but their teeth are perfectly white and straight all the time, it's creepy how perfect American teeth are.

>>16450750
It's called BRUSHING with TOOHPASTE


and our water's filled with fluoride and we're a vain as fuck country. The people who aren't obese are obsessed with appearing beautiful and wealthy.

Japan is the country you should be applauding tho. They treat dentists like real doctors.

>>16445705
yes, but america is the only country on that list where the population has not lived under constant threat of famine until extremely recently. Like, we have no evolutionary reason to be like this.

>>16449403
yeah that's why threads like these are stupid. It's almost like different people have different nutrition requirements....but people would rather cry about corn, or sugar, or fats, or whatever the fuck else the flavor of the month is.

>>16444198
Lads I'm pretty overweight.
I live with my parents during the summer and on my own in the winter.
Every winter I trim down to an acceptable weight and every summer I bloat up, this has been a thing since I was a child because my parents eat like they're 13.
I have no self control and the only reason I can lose weight when I'm on my own is because I keep nothing unhealthy in the house.
any advice?

>>16447310
If you excluded Scotland from that statistic the UK places 16th in Europe.

>>16451763
stay away from your parents

>>16451843
really? no way, i thought brits were also fat. where did you take that from? their obesity rate was around 28% in 2020 which is same as UK, so what gives?

>>16450489
yes. like, this is the fattest man in the world in 1903. we now have plenty people in US who are twice the size of that guy. Walmart is full of guys like these. it's literally nothing out of ordinary in America.

>>16444198
People will blame every damn thing under the sun but ignore what is by far causing it the most.

>>16450100
mate, i know what you're implying, but no. i did the math, you can see the white only obesity map in picrelated. only 3 states are below 25% white obesity rate: HI, CA and CO. even NY is over 25%, now certainly more as the data is from 2017-2019 and it has been going up at a steady rate for years. even if you removed deep south with its over 35% rate, you'd still have average 30% obesity rate for the country. Italy for example has around 20% obesity rate.
but even then, guess what? your argument is cheating, because typically rural areas will always be more obese in any country. America is still the fattest 1st world nation EVEN if you remove rural areas and minorities, with only maybe UK being close and that's all. thats just how fucked things are.

question to Americans. how do Christians in your country justify being fat if gluttony is a sin?

>>16452326
Because they're not fat because of gluttony or sloth its the carbohydrate

>>16452419
ketard please leave

>>16452522
Diabeetus please leave

>>16447310
>turkey
>KARA BURGER

>>16452419
It still requires overeating (gluttony) to get overweight. If your entire diet for one day is 1g carbohydrate you're not going to get fat.

>>16452620
Yes you can starve yourself to lose weight (usually only temporarily) but that doesn't tell you why you put on the excess adiposity to begin with. If obesity were truly "caused" by excess calories, then why don't people lose it all when they restrict their calories? Instead if you cut the carbs and dont restrict calories you lose MORE weight. Something doesn't add up here. While yes you have to eat calories to gain weight the question is what determines whether you burn those calories or put them into fat? There's a hormone that regulates this. The body is a homeostatic system yet in the past 40-50 years obesity, diabetes, and chronic disease has exploded.

>>16452652
>then why don't people lose it all when they restrict their calories?
the sheer gall of this ketard
they do lose weight buddy, in fact that's how most people lose weight. maybe take off your tinfoil hat and go outside sometime.
holy shit ketards are starting to get more obnoxious than vegans, the latter at least don't pretend to know it all about nutrition

~~feed~~

>>16448888
>i actually made a thread about that 2 years ago
holy shit I can't even remember threads I make from a week ago

>>16452704
>they do lose weight buddy
Yes but the important point you ignore is that they lose more weight on a diet that is calorie unrestricted. This is a common finding among many weight loss clinical trials.

>>16452845
>Yes but the important point you ignore is that they lose more weight on a diet that is calorie unrestricted. This is a common finding among many weight loss clinical trials.
please link me those trials. from ones i've seen, no they don't. plus, a lot of things will come into play here, as metabolism adjusts. "calorie unrestricted" is also misleading as it doesn't imply people eat over maintenance. and all of that conveniently avoids downsides of keto, such as hair loss, lower free T, keto flu, simple inconvenience / adjustment period, effects on energy / athletic performance, etc. inb4, i'm not interested in your personal anecdote about "feeling more energy than ever on keto".
regardless though, the fact of the matter is, calorie restriction works unlike what was implied in >>16452652 . and please go and tell japan how eating so much rice is unhealthy and makes you fat. i'm sure these brainwashed people would feel much better eating lard and drinking coffee with a stick of butter every day.

>>16452880
>conveniently avoids downsides of keto, such as hair loss, lower free T, keto flu, simple inconvenience / adjustment period, effects on energy / athletic performance, etc
Most of the are transient and exercise importance actually improves once you are adapted to the diet. And the Japanese do okay eating higher carb because they have quite low sugar consumption but even their obesity/diabetes rates are starting to creep up.

https://phcuk.org/rcts/
That will link to every relevant trial

>>16452880
>conveniently avoids downsides of keto, such as hair loss, lower free T, keto flu, simple inconvenience / adjustment period, effects on energy / athletic performance, etc
Most of these are transient and exercise performance actually improves in the long term and I'd bet the rest are the same. And the Japanese do okay eating higher carb because they have quite low sugar consumption but even their obesity/diabetes rates are starting to creep up.

https://phcuk.org/rcts/
That will link to every relevant trial

>>16452880
These types of diets also significantly increase energy expenditure. Although it will go down slightly during the adaptation period. Once again the "negative" effects are short lived and there are long term gains to be had.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/151/3/482/6020167

>>16444198
it's our niggers and flyovers if you break it down demographically

this is our obesity rate among non-hispanic whites by state.

>>16452880
Also the Japanese, at least in the military, started to run into malnutrition problems back in the early 20th century when they started refining their rice. Will post source if I can find but I think the lesson here is that not all carbohydrates are equally deleterious and some may are beneficial in their natural form/dose. When you start refining (+GI) and adding sugar is when you will run into problems.

>>16452936
This is such a weird /pol/ cope and I'm not even sure what your point is. Wouldn't you prefer to be surrounded by happy, healthy people even if only for selfish reasons?

>>16452326
Normalization of obesity means people literally have no idea what a normal amount of food or body type is.

>>16452936
see >>16452324
if you remove rural areas from EU countries, obesity is also probably going to go down to sub 20% for every country, if not lower. American urban areas are fatter than EU rural areas.

>>16452960
Its not the quantity of food its the quality as I think is at least plausible given that people lose MORE weight on calorie unrestricted diets.

>>16444275
>also don't think vegetables alone will ave america
it's not a bad fucking start though

>>16448860
snowboarding + weed
also known as "God's diet"

>>16452880
>"ketogenic therapy appears promising in improving both acute and long-term cognition among patients with AD/MCI."
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article-abstract/11/6/1583/5864685

You could also add Alzheimer's disease to the list of potentially treatable through dietary intervention.

>>16452917
>>16452908
>>16452922
interesting, however some points to consider
1) high protein diets in general are better for weight loss, diet adherence and preservation of fat free mass. going through a lot of these studies, quite a lot of "low carb" diets also had muh higher protein. one study just outright call the diet "high protein vs low protein". plus, ideally you compare low carb vs average carb, not high carb.
2) low carb shows significantly more weight loss in 37 study out of 67 linked. however, majority of those are under 1 year, some just last few weeks. in longer studies with significant weight loss, it looks more even. when i look at long studies (over 6 months) where low carb was significantly better, a few of them are for people with diabetes, and some just have weird resuls such as having 1.5kg weight loss after 24 months.
3) there's many other important factors that the overview table doesn't have, such as proportion of fat free mass lost compared to fat, adherence, cholesterol levels, free T levels, etc, and overall every study needs to be analyzed separately to understand their methodology and total calorie intake.
4) some of these studies are for people already with diabetes or other conditions, and it's obvious theres gonna be differences.

>>16452969
Is rural obesity even higher in Europe? Is rural obesity necessarily higher in the U.S.? Why even bring up Europe when it wasn't mentioned?

Non-Hispanic white America isn't top 20 in obesity by any stretch of the imagination is my point.
>>16452944
I live in one of the least obese counties in the country and I'm glad I don't live in Mississippi lol

>>16453032
>high protein diets in general are better for weight loss, diet adherence and preservation of fat free mass.
Protein is good but I think it needs to be paired with some fat to get the benefits on satiety. For weight loss I haven't looked into any trials on high protein diets so I'm not sure either way. And you are right the effects seem to shrink in the long term which I'd bet is due to lack of adherence. Its no question that our modern food environment makes following this sort of diet challenging to say the least. Here's a landmark study in treating T2DM, which is most of the diabetes epidemic, using diet.

"There was also resolution of diabetes (reversal, 53.5%; remission, 17.6%) in the CCI group but not in UC. All the reported improvements had p < 0.00012."
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.00348/full

Also what may not be obvious at a glance is that this study included long time diabetics which are notoriously hard to get improvement in with conventional therapy.

>>16453052
"Despite a mean and median of 8.4 and 7 years since diagnosis among CCI participants, the remission rate was higher than the Look AHEAD trial where its participants had a median of 5 years (4) since diabetes diagnosis."

>>16453032
If you'll permit an anecdote I think this is pointing to something useful. This is from the book of an ethnologist who lived with the Inuit for nearly a decade. He also came back to US and was studied in a hospital eating only meat and was kept in great health except when he didn't eat enough fat. Look into the Bellevue experiments for more info.

>>16453075
Relevant video as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT7u2GlEfxs

>>16444198
Shame. Or rather the waning power of it. People used to give a shit what their neighbours and family thought, so they'd actually bother with self-improvement. But when society is screaming that there's no need to ever feel shame and that it's a bad feeling that you should ignore, you get America.

>>16453052
>Protein is good but I think it needs to be paired with some fat to get the benefits on satiety.
it's hard not to. protein almost always comes with fat. even whey protein (non isolate) has some fat and carbs. unless you go the route of fat-free products, it's hard to find protein without considerable amount of fat.
regardless, no fat or very low fat diet is bad, there's no arguing about that, but this doesn't imply carbs are root of all evil like keto preaches. healthy carbs such as starches and fibrous veggies are good in normal quantities, and going very low carb poses too many risks that are hardly worth the effort. looking at long-term effects of diets, while low carb may have slight edge (although it's hard to say how high it would be given equal amount of protein etc), it's not quite huge, and comes with a whole lot of potential dangers that may simply not be worth it.
low carb and keto may get many things right, as they focus on satiety and protein-rich foods, cutting out soda and sugar, eating vegetables, etc, but there's simply not enough convincing reason to severely limit carbs, and all these diets get right can be done on normal carb / fat, high protein diet.

>>16453044
>Non-Hispanic white America isn't top 20 in obesity by any stretch of the imagination is my point.
posting 2008 data?… please see >>16447632 and >>16447267 . it gets worse every year. 2008 white adult obesity rate was around 33%. in 2017-2018, it was 42% (picrelated). 42 fucking percent. higher than anywhere in the 1st world.

>>16453096
>but there's simply not enough convincing reason to severely limit carbs
Potential reversal of diabetes and obesity seems like a pretty good reason to me. We also have clinical trials in Alzheimer's showing improved cognition. As for the question of the really long term I don't think we have sufficient data for any diet. Its also the case that carbohydrate restricted diets are some of if not the most studied diet in terms of clinical trials. So if we can't say anything definitive about these diets we can't really say anything about any diet.

>>16453096
For anybody interested this article looks at a lot of the literature.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/150/6/1354/5673196

Also here is the data for Alzheimer's.

>"ketogenic therapy appears promising in improving both acute and long-term cognition among patients with AD/MCI."
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article-abstract/11/6/1583/5864685

>>16453158
"Ketosis, an evolutionarily ancient metabolic pathway, might confer additional benefits, beyond those of prevailing high-fat diets, through modulation of the inflammasome, oxidative damage, histone acetylation, mitophagy, cellular redox state, and other mechanisms (38, 39). Ketones have been termed a “superfuel” for the brain (39), upon which infants can be especially dependent (40). Based on these pleiotropic actions, a ketogenic diet has been considered for a wide range of health conditions. The website clinicaltrials.com currently lists 85 planned or active trials of a ketogenic or low-carbohydrate diet for diseases of numerous organ systems, including cardiovascular, endocrine, gastrointestinal, neurological, and psychiatric (see Table 1). Additional trials have been completed but not yet published."

And I think that's enough ketofagging for one day. But at the end of the day I think anybody on any diet will improve by cutting down on their sugar and highly refined foods.

>>16444198
it has very little to do with their diet and much more to do with that:
1. It's more socially accepted
2. Everything is more spread out so people have to drive cars everywhere and thus fatness is not as much of an inconvenience as it is in Amsterdam, as an extreme example, where everyone bikes everywhere.

>>16453184
Sugar cane cutters burned nearly 10,000 calories a day and still got obese... Also this doesn't explain the dual burden of obesity and malnutrition. Obese mothers with starving children. This has been found in many populations.

>>16453193
>Sugar cane cutters burned nearly 10,000 calories a day and still got obese
Source? Sounds like the sugar cane cutters are defying the laws of thermodynamics unless they are consuming 20k calories a day.

Portion sizes, snacking, and never skipping meals. You could eat McDonald's every day and lose weight. In all honesty it's probably not a food problem. It's probably an emotional problem. Too many bored, depressed people with voids in their souls who try quenching it fruitlessly with endless plates of food.

>>16452845
If you consume fewer calories than your body uses you will lose weight.

>>16453206
Google is your friend I'm going to sleep. The 10k calories was an estimate but they do burn huge amounts of calories and still got obese. the more important part is the obese mothers with starving, stunted children. This conflicts with everything we know about maternity so something is likely wrong here in how we explain this disease

>>16453134
I posted more current data earlier, the data I posted there was to refute the "rural" assertion, maybe learn reading comprehension

Here's deaths related to obesity by the way, Americans as a whole aren't actually particularly unhealthy

:^)

I don't think it's because of the automobile society, because Americans are still fat when they move to Japan.
The Harsh Reality of Being FAT IN JAPAN https://youtu.be/aTFK_tqnDRk

>>16444348 japanese food is cheap cause super competetive and high foot traffic

>>16444271
I literally don't know a single adult who doesn't eat real food/vegetables in America. It may not be all they eat. But they definitely eat it.

>>16444198
What this map will never acknowledge is that middle-easterners have a tendency to stock extra calories much more than, say, Ethiopians.
So they may be obese on a technical level but most live their life just fine
And middle Eastern women don't like skinny boys and they are massive feeders, so there's that too.

>>16444198
Im pretty /Fit/ and muscular because of my job. Are you saying people like me are rare in the US?