/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>16407007
>you can’t go out in nature and find an edible carrot
Then how the fuck did people find and start eating carrots, retard? They do exist in the wild, they’re just smaller and generally aren’t orange. What a retarded take.

This post is completely blown out of context. The only “vegetables” that were patently poisonous before hybridization were things related to nightshade - tomatoes and potatoes - one of which is a bloody fruit. Most vegetables were a lot shittier before being selectively bred for size, flavor, less seeds, etc - but this doesn’t mean they were poisonous, inedible, or any other thing related to this idea. There’s literally forageable vegetables that people forage every single fucking year, and just because something has fiber doesn’t mean it’s indigestible garbage. Birds eat fucking rocks for fiber. Humans can eat a fucking potato skin, and it’ll probably be better for you than eating potato chips you fat lard fuck. Fuck you.

>>16407027
fpbp

>>16407027
Well, I think OP can do without the extra fiber after this colossal ass-reaming.

>>16407007
american education everybody. I bet you shoveled some Funions and Mt Dew in your gaping maw while tiping this out you fat retard

>>16407007
>vitamin content come in plant forms which are generally less bioavailable.
Cooking and fermentation increases bioavailability. I feel really good after eating some of my homemade fermented vegetables.

It's not like you'll die within a year if you don't eat lots of vegetables every day, but I just feel better when eating them. Like sometimes I'll go a few days mainly just eating meat/eggs/cheese and carbs, but then I start to really crave a giant salad with a ton of vegetables. They're still beneficial for us in multiple ways. And we don't digest fiber like true herbivores but I still have better poops with fiber in my diet, when I don't have much I don't poop as often and it takes longer.

>>16407007
>None of the things you can buy in supermarkets, markets etc actually exist in the wild.
Nor do cows, pigs, chickens or sheeps.

>>16407007
Society and civilization was created to ensure the survival of retards like OP

>>16407027
>Then how the fuck did people find and start eating carrots, retard? They do exist in the wild, they’re just smaller and generally aren’t orange

The ancestor of the domesticated carrot were originally used as medicine (seeds and leaves). The roots were prescribed as a diuretic/abortificant.
See: >http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history2.html

>>16407129
> The plant probably originated in Persia and was originally cultivated for its leaves and seeds. The most commonly eaten part of the plant is the taproot, although the stems and leaves are also eaten. The domestic carrot has been selectively bred for its greatly enlarged, more palatable, less woody-textured taproot.
From Wikipedia
None of this implies it was poisonous
Idk why you’re specifically fixated on the carrot but it probably isn’t the best choice as they’re based and you can’t do anything about it.

>>16407112
Agree. I generally avoid those foods as well.

I mean, look at how unhealthy everyone is. Our food supply is just artificial, industrially produced slop. You really can't even eat a 'natural' diet. I eat a lot of wild caught fish, shellfish (but the mussels I buy are farmed), and deer meat my brother hunts. However I also eat bread and butter, which are probably the least natural foods you can buy.

What to do...

>>16407007
>I seem to be in fine health.
How fat?

>>16407142
Top 5 most popular vegetables sold in US (https://www.pma.com/content/articles/top-20-fruits-and-vegetables-sold-in-the-us))

>potato
the ancestor of modern potatoes are literally poisonous, required extensive preparation to eat safely
>tomato
wild species is edible, but extremely tiny
>onion
ancestor of cultivated onion is extinct, not much is known. Because the wild onion is extinct and ancient records of using onions span western and eastern Asia, the geographic origin of the onion is uncertain,[17][18] although domestication likely took place in Southwest or Central Asia.[3]:20-21[19] Onions have been variously described as having originated in Iran, western Pakistan and Central Asia.[17][19]:1[18][20]

Traces of onions recovered from Bronze Age settlements in China suggest that onions were used as far back as 5000 BC, not only for their flavour, but the bulb's durability in storage and transport.[21][19][failed verification] Ancient Egyptians revered the onion bulb, viewing its spherical shape and concentric rings as symbols of eternal life.[19] Onions were used in Egyptian burials, as evidenced by onion traces found in the eye sockets of Ramesses IV.[22]"
>carrots
see: >>16407129
>brocolli
see OP pic
>bell peppers
wild ancestor is tiny (less than 1cm), exceptionally hot
>lettuce
Lettuce was first cultivated in ancient Egypt for the production of oil from its seeds. This plant was probably selectively bred by the Egyptians into a plant grown for its edible leaves,[22] with evidence of its cultivation appearing as early as 2680 BC.[10] "

leaves were bitter, spiky, full of latex. not much is realy known.

>>16407271

>>16407276
ancestor of broccoli (pic is actually likely to be a feral species of cultivated brassica though)

>>16407278
ancestor of bell pepper (extremely hot, tiny, barely edible)

>>16407148
How is bread not natural?

>>16407385
well "natural" is kind of a meaningless word, especially seeing as though humans are 'natural' and therefore everything we do is natural, including domesticating plant species.

But what I mean is that bread is essentially, a man-made food. The bread I buy is made from one of the most hybridized fucked up frankenstein monster food on the planet: wheat, barely resembling it's wild ancestor.

Not only that (bread is made from flour from an unnatural plant), but bread itself, is basically not even a normal human food. It requires domestication, settled human existence, , irrigation, etc, and extensive processing to even eat really (hulling, grinding, fermenting, baking, etc).

And I mean it's pretty clear to me that humans are not fucking grass eaters. That's literally what bread is, fermented (most of them) and baked ground up grass seeds. Doesn't seem like a natural food to me.

>>16407007
>None of the things you can buy in supermarkets, markets etc actually exist in the wild
lingonberry, dragonfruit, coconut, durian, etc.

Go go gadget scurvy.

>>16407086
That craving is your gut bacteria controlling your mind. Don't be a slave to microbes.

>>16407475
>hulling, grinding, fermenting, baking
hulls can be ground into the flour. Fermenting is not necessary for flat breads. Yeast also exists in nature. That white powder on grapes and blueberries is a natural form of yeast. As for cooking, fire exists in nature.

>>16407475
Evidence was found of hunter-gatherers making bread from wild grains and tubers thousands of years before agriculture started. There are some theories that farming started because we were already eating grains and wanted to be able to have more.

>>16407007

You eat vegetables for compounds, not for fiber or the usual nutrients. And each vegetable should be cooked properly or eaten raw. Exploit the bioavailability of the compounds and nutrients.

Let garlic rest for 5 minutes so the allicin gets created. Allicin is great for your health.

Cook spinach to exploit the iron better in your body.

Eat red peppers raw. More vitamin C that way.

Cook tomatoes to get the lycopene. Lycopene has antioxidant properties.

Lots of good stuff in vegetables. The wider the variety of organic vegetables and organic fruits, the better.

>>16407475
>it's pretty clear to me that humans are not fucking grass eaters
We are omnivores. Small canine teeth means not predominantly meat eaters. Molars for grinding seeds, fruit and veggies. It's not rocket science.

>>16407007
there is no food that exists today that hasnt been selectively bred

>>16407475
>humans are not fucking grass eaters
Seeds aren't grass. If that was true, corn is grass, all fruit and vegetables are grass. You make no sense.

>>16407007
so are most domesticated animals. Guess you should just stop eating in general, OP.

>>16407546
>>16407480

>>16407546
Horseradish, wild leeks, wild garlic, samphire, seaweed,

>>16407480
>lingonberry, dragonfruit, coconut, durian, etc.

those are all fruits, and when available in supermarkets they are cultivators from farms.

>>16407546
there's tonnes of animal foods (fish, shellfish, wild game, etc). Some types of nuts, plus many types of spices, and even salt. There are also wild harvested seaweeds, bugs etc. Wild berries, mushrooms, and fruits.

>>16407553
Huh? both corn and wheat are types of grasses, we eat the seeds - grass seeds. Most sugar comes from grass

>>16407553
Corn is indeed grass. All grains are grass. They're just very, very big grass. Bamboo is grass. Plant any grain from a seed. It will be a grass that looks exactly like grass on any lawn once it takes root. Then it gets hueg.

Vegetables, that is, what we eat and call vegetables, are not grass plants.

>>16407611
Seeds are not grass. When you eat corn, is it bright yellow or green? Grass relies of chlorophyll. Seeds don't contain it.

>>16407643
A sack of seeds is grass? That's like saying an egg is a full grown chicken.

/ck/ - Semantics & Taxonomy

>>16407664
This is splitting hairs. No, a grain of corn is not a fully grown grass plant. It is a grass seed. A fertilized egg, while not a fully grown animal, is a chicken embryo.

>>16407007
>Far as I can tell vegetables are essentially, man made foods
Everything you eat at the supermarket is man made, retard. Animals dont get as fat as our livestock when they are in the wild. We have also bred fruits to be bigger and sweeter.

>>16407696
>This is splitting hairs
You're the one saying seeds are grass.

>>16407475
Bread is essentially grounded up grains, water, and yeast. What is so “unnatural” about that? And what is wrong with “man made” food? You’re using man made tech right now. Naturopaths are such brainlets.

>>16407696
Try making bread out of grass.

>>16407713
No it isn't. I buy wild caught fresh fish, crabs, shellfish at the supermarket. My salt is mined, or evaporated from the sea.

>>16407696
>It is a grass seed.
And there is where you admit it's not actual grass.

>>16407732
you're so dumb, and continually confuse the sense of "grass" as a species, and "grass" as the fucking leaf/stem thing of the plant

>>16407730
>What is so “unnatural” about that?

the grain itself, is literally unnatural. might even be gmo. at the very least it's heavily cultivated/domesticated to the point where it is unrecognisable from it's natural/non-human intervention ancestor.

>And what is wrong with “man made” food?

dunno, our populations are so healthy right? I mean it's not like we have crippling health pandemics based on overconsumption of unnatural foods (seed oils - heart disease, excess carbohydrate consumption - obesity, diabetus).

>>16407713
honey is kind of natural

Vegetables are harmful. Everyone has depression and anxiety because they eat plant-based foods.

One of the best things people can do for health is stop eating all plant food.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRBFiBWQZQ

>>16407746
Coriander seeds aren't cilantro, fennel seeds aren't fennel bulb or fronds, corn isn't the whole fucking stalk, coconuts aren't palm leaves. You are the one that is confused. American education I would guess.

>>16407795
By your logic, no component part is the thing.
>that's not chicken that's a thigh
>that's not broccoli that's a floret
>that's not spinach that's a leaf
But go ahead and die on this bizarre hill.

>>16407834
I think they are pretending to be retarded. Don't feed the trolls etc

>>16407834
It can be a seed of whatever plant. It's still not leafy and green is it? Post a picture of your bread made from grass.

>>16407027
Fpbp

>>16407834
How can a thigh be a chicken? It is a chicken thigh not a whole chicken.

>>16407007
>Far as I can tell vegetables are essentially, man made foods. None of the things you can buy in supermarkets, markets etc actually exist in the wild. They've all been selectively bred, hybridized, some are genetically modified. You can't go out in nature and find an edible carrot, or broccolli. The ancestors of these plants are basically poisonous.
That's a lot of words just to say you're an idiot that knows shit about anything

>>16407007
When we were foraging we died on average by the age of 18, that's why all healthy men are naturally attracted to 13 year olds sexually. It's prime breeding age historically. Live past 18 or don't eat vegetables. Your choice.

>>16407953
You are the vegetable. Pedo Brassilicus.

Surprise twise, bread's actually made from fruit.

>>16407958
But wheat, corn, rice are grains not fruit.

OP, just shut the fuck up you loser faggot

>>16407958
That's like saying Brisling sardines are sardines, and Brunswick sardines are sardines.

>>16407958
And hippos are related to dolphins. Still wouldn't pay to swim with hippos.

Where's the grass = seed bloke gone? Back to school?

>>16407007
raw potatoes are inedible (not sure if poisonous) but once you cook them in any way they're good to go

>>16408224
should we really be eating foods that require preparation to make them not poisonous ?

>>16407974
based deenz poster

>>16408224
They are not inedible raw, just have to be careful

>>16408231
the potato is said to have saved germany from a famine when it was first introduced
the peasants refused to eat or plant them because their animals wouldn't eat them raw so the kaiser ordered soldiers to guard potato fields until harvest
when the food shortage got bad the peasants were glad to have potatoes

>>16408245
Why did they need to guard something nobody wanted?

yes OP vegetables are unhealthy.. consume beef tallow only and die in your 40's

>>16407271
None of this was an argument, just a coalescence of information.

>>16407953
>that's why all healthy men are naturally attracted to 13 year olds sexually
Wtf?

>>16408152
I was enjoying some leisure and a large meal.

Tell me, in the case of, say, corn, what would you consider the roots of a plant which produces corn to be? Is it a grass? Is it only a root? Is it even corn?

A lot of plant based toxins are destroyed with the extensive preparation of "Apply heat"

The extensive preparation of Kidney Beans? "Boil in water." Also known as "Apply heat"

>>16408141
Because the hippos are less likely to rape you to death?

>>16407007
by the way the hybridization and selctive breeding is another thing you can thank white people for. 1800s british usually

Fruit has no nutrition
veggies have no nutrition
why would you eat grains
fast food is basically the same as regular

what the fuck is this board?

>>16407953
you could base your trolling on a premise that hasnt been shown to be false 100 fucking times

>>16409104
>Fruit has no nutrition
>veggies have no nutrition
wrong

>>16407787
any studies showing kindey stone rates in vegetarians vs meat eaters? the higher oxalate level from veg would lead to a higher rate of stones is vegetarians no?

>>16409120
sorry i forgot the >, theres currently a thread for each of those claims and its makes me wonder why i bother coming here

>>16407775
>corporations cheap out on ingredients, creating less healthy food
>this means all vegetables are fake and you should eat my retarded fad diet

>>16409138
Oh, yeah. People who claim fruit is unhealthy probably only just started learning about why sugar can be bad when giving up stuff like soda and processed food. They see that fruit also has sugar so that must mean it's bad too, which is understandable logic. But that's not true as fruit is full of other healthy things that counteract the issues with consuming pure sugar.

For the vegetables, some of it is probably people trying to push back against veganism, or someone like OP who doesn't realize that vegetables can taste amazing when prepared properly. Notice how OP says he only eats a few for flavor, which makes me think he's had poorly prepared vegetables most of the time which is why he's trying to find a reason to not eat them. And with grains I think that's mainly people not realizing there's a big difference between whole grains and refined grains.

I suppose I've gone through a bit of these thought processes myself as I started becoming interested in nutrition at a young age, so I'm a little more patient with it. I don't really mind trying to explain the issues with logic for those claims. Most people will fight back against you if you try to point out why they're wrong but if it helps one person or at least helps the others at some point in the future then I think it's worth it.

>>16407787
Very interesting, I am definitely going to watch this video, surely it was produced with my best interests at heart

>>16407007
Eat meat for energy, and plants for vitamins/minerals.
Why is this such a fucking difficult concept?

>>16409233
Shut up you fuckin moron

>>16408599
Just roots. Same as an apple tree. You don't eat roots of apple trees and you don't eat roots of corn plants.

>>16409893
he aint wrong, go eat some fucking greens

>>16407007
FUCK WATER
WATER IS FROM THE TOILET
DRINK BRAWNDO

>>16407027
Based anti-bullshit posters. We need you everywhere. 4chan is the bastion of free discourse but that doesnt excuse people from posting utter garbage.

>yes I force plants to grow in a certain way so I can feast on their corpses

>>16411062
You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're so willing to absorb that drivel, so why chime in?

>>16411015
baste electrolyte consumer

>>16407730
>Naturopaths are such brainlets.
The irony. You can't even understand what these posts are implying. It's showing how stupid the recent backlash against "processed" foods and "non-organic" or "not genetically modified" foods are.

>>16407546
In the house I grew up we had fields of thick Florida underbrush that had wild blackberries. They were very edible and haven't/hadn't been touched by human hands my guy.

>>16407007
Found the fatty

>>16407027
>Birds eat fucking rocks for fiber. Humans can eat a fucking potato skin, and it’ll probably be better for you than eating potato chips you fat lard fuck. Fuck you.
fpbp based checked and built for the bbc

>>16407027
OP utterly decimated, probably like his colon

>>16407475
If it can be made from ingredients grown in the ground, it's natural.

>>16407007
>thinks farm animals aren't selectively bred
Good luck having a stroke in your 40s while you're on the toilet struggling to squeeze a turd past your rectum.

While OP is a gigantic retard, I appreciate the thread he gave birth to. Theres a lot of cool info in here

>>16412177
So he'd be left with wild-caught fish and bush meat.

>>16412183
nothing wrong with that

venison and trout are based

no antibiotics, no hormones, humanely raised (as in fuckin' free in the wild)

>>16407007
>>16407027
fucking decimated

my favourite part was "Birds eat fucking rocks for fiber"

>>16408256
because they were destroying the crops out of fear of getting poisoned

>>16408743
that's been going on for much longer than wypipo even became civilized
try harder bucko

>>16407007
For you, it is time to give up on life.

>>16407027
Why did this post get so many responses? Fiber is LITERALLY indigestible, it's not a nutrient. Birds don't eat rocks for fiber either, it's completely different - they use rocks to manually grind their foods (seeds etc).

Plenty of vegetables were literally poisonous before being domesticated. Eg, carrots, potatoes, etc. Or required extensive preparation.

The majority of vegetables people forage are either literally not vegetables (fungi, nuts, seeds etc), or are feral species of already domesticated vegetable crops.

And humans will literally be poisoned by raw potato skins if they are exposed to sunlight, and if not, they need to be boiled/cooked to even be digestible.

Also I'm OP, and I'm not fat. I barely eat domesticated animals either (just butter), occasional chicken that my friend raises himself.

The point of this thread is to challenge the idea that eating healthy means eating vegetables. When if you look into then, their vitamin content is in porrer quality form, or bound up in fiber, or come along with antinutrients that prevent absorption. Like I say I barely eat any vegetables, and seem to be in fine health.

>>16412326
> '' I seem to be in fine health '' he said to anonymous strangers as he wheezes, strained from typing on his keyboard.

>>16412326
If you're young, you shouldnt have any issue living on a shitty fucking diet

But as you get older, around 30, you'll feel the toll it has taken on your life.

Enjoy your gut cancer, neet

>>16412326
>The majority of vegetables people forage are either literally not vegetables

> fiddleheads
> asparagus
> wild leeks
> watercress
> dandelion
> wild onion
> chickweed
> plantago
> clover
> bamboo
> kelp
> garlic mustard

> I know nothing about foraging yet feel confident enough to push my opinion on a basket weaving forum

>>16412326
You have to think of it from an evolutionary point of view.
Our ancestors worked so hard to select edible plants and vegetables to survive, because they were available. Hunting meat took time, effort, and you spent the energy you got from the previous catch. You couldnt JUST hunt.

So what if potatoes are bad for you if they are exposed to sunlight? Just store them properly and eat it before they go bad. What a retarded fucking argument.
Same thing applies to meat moron, if you let it out for a day or two in the sunlight it'll give you diarrhea and be toxic to you.

>>16407007
>Vegetables - why eat them?
Same reason I eat meat. Yummy in my tummy

>>16412372
>watercress
>dandelion
>garlic mustard
How the fuck you get this shit to not taste like shit.

Also I've been interested in trying some pokeweed leaves. Apparently it used to be available for sale in stores canned. Have you tried it? I also wanna try some cattail shoots next year. I heard it can be made into like... spaghetti.

>>16407546
Oh fuck! We emptied the ocean of all the fish already? Goddamn, i loved that shit.

>>16412384

90% of our diet would have been meat. Modern humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, yet these vegetables we eat have been around for maybe 10,000 years max.

Also there's this thing called scavenging, humans do it too.

>>16412395
Never tried it, sorry

And for those three I guess its an acquired taste. I wouldnt forage for them specifically, like chickweed or plantago.

I live in an area rich in fiddleheads and wild blueberries, so i'll usually look for that

>>16412395
Pokeweed is delicious but not really in season now. You can est the young leaves and shoots but they must be boiled for 10 minutes first.
Watercress is great and never gets too strong even in summer.
Dandelions and garlic mustard are some of the worst tasting wild edibles but are the most well known due to their abundance and usage by European peasants. They are both super nutritious so i eat them in spring. The bitterness in dandelions is reduced significantly by cooking. Garlic mustard leaves are more of a seasoning than a food. However in spring they send up a shoot and before it flowers and is still nice and tender its much more mild tasting and you can cook it like asparagus. It'll still be pretty strong tasting tho.

>>16412326
>or are feral species of already domesticated vegetable crops.
Thats because foraging at least in the US is primarily influenced by European peasants who brought their plants and traditions here. Most native foods were dismissed except for a few. Have yo I ever heard of groundnuts? Pokeweed? Basswood leaves? American lotus?

>>16412419
great info, thanks anon!

>>16408245
>you WILL eat the potatoes
oh no

>>16412355
I'm 31 already and I try to eat as healthy as possible, which is the point of this thread - vegetables really aren't that healthy. They contain little usable nutrients, indigestible fiber, and antinutrient concerns. I literally spend a lot of money and time sourcing high quality food.

Anyway for dinner I had 8 grilled mussels, 3 gurnard fillets steamed in foil in the oven with butter and a slice of lemon, a little cup of plain yoghurt but I put a little manuka honey on my spoon so each spoonful a little bit dissolves into my mouth. And then I snacked on some blue cheese/gouda with some crackers, and my favourite vegetable : spring onion! Also, as a little treat for desert I had one little square of samoan chocolate.

In my opinion this is a very healthy meal aside from the crackers, and the lack of vegetables is a good thing.

>>16413338
It's odd to see someone say vegetables aren't healthy while eating crackers. Usually see more people saying grains aren't good but that vegetables are okay. Chocolate has fiber and antinutrients too.

Obviously we aren't herbivores and wouldn't do well if we tried to entirely rely on vegetables for everything, but that doesn't mean they're bad. I think most of them have been shown to reduce your risk of multiple diseases as they still contain beneficial compounds that we do absorb. It's not like you'll get sick and die within 6 months if you stop eating them but I know I generally feel better with vegetables in my diet, especially fermented ones which not only make the vegetables easier to digest also contain beneficial bacteria to promote healthy gut flora.

>>16412410
>yet these vegetables we eat have been around for maybe 10,000 years max.
That's plenty of time for genetic changes to take place in response to new foods being introduced, especially if they're introduced to farming populations relying on specific crops compared to wild animals eating whatever they could find. We already know there have been genetic changes in response to increased starch consumption by farming populations producing more enzymes in their saliva that help digest starch, along increased rates of lactase persistence for dairying populations. Wouldn't surprise me if there are some changes that took place to help improve digestion of other vegetables as well.

>>16408599
Grass is the name of a type of plant. It is not the name of a part of a plant. The entirety of a grass plant is grass

>>16413925
what's hay then smarty-pants

>>16407007
>what's the point of solid food? Just squeeze nutrapaste down your gullet, it contains all the nutrients you need.
>and no, don't give me any of that taste or texture or joy of cooking and eating, I mean REAL reasons

>>16412326
Fiber is indigestible, no shit. But you lack understanding. I think many creatures do eat rocks to help them grind down their food, look up gastroliths. Even cats, obligate carnivores, often eat grass to help with digestion. I think you’re full of crap. And you simplify anti nutrients too, for example phytate improves glucose response (beneficial for those with diabetes), reduces kidney stones, has anti-cancer properties, and acts as an antioxidant. And you greatly over exaggerate whatever supposed toxicity vegetables have, potatoes are not poisonous even their skins unless they start sprouting fruit.

Vegetables are full of nutrients that are necessary in a healthy diet and you seem to have an unfounded aversion to them

Just had a plate of peas and I feel great

>>16414401
Could you use a few more buzzwords, or did you tap out your full supply?