/ck/ - Food & Cooking

cat bread

>>14155173
can i use my wife's genital yeast to make bread? i've been making kefir from her breast milk already.

boomp

>>14155173
looks like he lets his wife mount a basketball-kin.
Hard pass.

>>14155181
?

Blimp

>SCIENCE edition
>posts cat breads
at least you could some of the useful links OP

80% hydration all white flour + caraway seeds

Hello

>starter finally shows signs of life and bubbles again
FUCKIN FINALLY

>>14158642
is that a picture for ants?
also I believe that's what people here call a fool's crumb

>>14155847
fucking cats always complaining

>>14159631
Did my crumb fool me? I did 40% wheat this time starting with a poolish. It was all going pretty smoothly until I got it stuck to the counter right before baking, so it got mangled a little and didn't rise as much as I hoped.

My scoring also never comes out right. I have some scoring blade that I got for free with my proofing basket and I'm not sure if it's shit or if I'm just shit at doing it.

finally guys, my starter is finally showing activity, funny it smells much more sweeter than my previous attempt
apparently also seemed a heck of a lot more like a dough, after feeding it and mixing it up, it cramped into a sticky dough ball

>>14159743
check out the previous thread, near the end, they were talking exactly about this,
has something to do with folding preshape, also hydration and gluten development
for the scoring its likely just more practice indeed, I have just a knife and make good cuts

>>14159743
that bread looks very fucking nice, exactly like mine

and I had the same issues, but it didn't influence the quality of the bread and I'm glad it didn't have those excessive faggy holes all over the place

>>14155173
Fucking christ i cant stand this pretentious fag

Can someone explain the science behind this

>>14161733
god hates you

>>14159631
no fool made this crumb

>>14161874

>>14155173
I tried adding half a percent salt to my whole wheat sourdough and it wasn't excessively sour this time and was also chewier. Was also saltier than I'd like. I'll try 0.2% next time. Are people really eating multiple grams of salt a day just in their bread they eat with even saltier foods?

The weather has been really warm here lately and I ended up overproofing and not getting much oven spring, what's the best test for knowing when my dough's ready?

Is it possible to do a loaf using just white flour ?
I already have a starter but never tried doing just an all purpose white flour loaf

I mean it shouldn't be a problem no ?

>>14159631
A fool's crumb is big holes with a dense crumb everywhere else.

>>14162912
forgot pic

tried another sourdough recipie
great taste
great crumb
great crust
great colour
no fucking oven spring, again
what am I doing wring, shit is driving me up the wall

Recommendations on dutch oven for bread making? Starting with sourdough but may branch out over time.

I know with skillets/pans there were some highly regarded but defunct brands that people restore and sell on eBay for cheap, so is there any kind of similar thing with dutch ovens?

>>14163391
If you want a cheaper one for just bread you can get a plain cast iron dutch oven like from Lodge. They're much cheaper than enameled pots and the enamel isn't useful for bread.

>>14163324
what temperature are you baking it at? do you use a baking stone or dutch oven? do you use steam during baking?

>>14163502
preheat at gas 9, bake at gas 8, no baking stone, dutch oven, covered for 5/6ths of baking time
kitchen temp is at about 25C

>>14163502
the cut on the dough widens by maybe 1cm at the widest spot, but the crumb is just right, the loaf is just flatter than I'd like it

cute yeast!

>>14163516
>gas 9
>gas 8
get an oven thermometer and see what your oven is really at. have you tried baking at a slightly lower temp? how deep do you slash the top?

>>14163810
It's within the 300c range at gas 9, 270c at 8, score was no less than 1.5cm deep

>>14164375
300 - 270 celsius? that's really hot for baking bread. your crust is probably forming before it can rise.

Made some burger buns, happy Hamburger Day everyone.

yelp bros.... my starter going into day 5, was showing much more activity is now going quieter
wtf?

>>14164656
those are really good looking anon, and from the look it seems like a really soft crumb as well, care to share the recipe?

>>14162663
I did one from white bread and italian 00 so thats similar to an all purpuse sort of. Pretty sure somebody on YouTube has done an AP sourdough

>>14163391
I paid about £50 for one on Amazon. I would recommend getting the pot in pic for about this price and investing more if you like it.
The enamle helps give the bread a nice finish, lets you clean it easily, and also makes cooking other things on it easier. Highly rate enamel dutch ovens.

>>14164656
Did that a few years ago.

>>14164530
When I take the top off from the Dutch oven at 40 minute mark the loaf is still pale though, it has to go for 15-20 more for colour and there's plenty steam inside

>>14164907
help guys, how can the starter just cease showing activity, its barely even growing or bubbling up anymore

>>14164907
>>14165359
just keep feeding it on the schedule

>>14164530
well if it's any hint the crust isn't like on the bread from the bakery but it's kinda translucent like on the top and you can see trapped ait in it. Although the recipe said to run oven as hot as possible and I'm anxious gas is cooler than electric, I'll buy thermometer for sure

>>14164912
Glad to:
https://www.seasonsandsuppers.ca/homemade-hamburger-buns/#wprm-recipe-container-32522

>>14162663
>I already have a starter but never tried doing just an all purpose white flour loaf
this is a good imo, let me elaborate on it for a good answer
I was also under the impression that soudough is mostly for wholemeal or similar richer type mix, however come to think of it, I'm not sure if any of the recipes specified being whole flour, and if they do its usually a mix, otherwise most of the loafs that result look rather something that you can only get with white flour
but to expand on the concept, I saw one article where they even have a pizza crust recipe with sourdough, so I'm intrigued to know if I can make, besides the regular loaf, baguettes, nice round buns like the post above, pizza, or even other fancy things like a cookie

>>14166168
Ken Forkish's pizza book does a sourdough pizza where the levain is initially started with whole wheat to promote the culture, but eventually transitions to 100% white bread flour feedings.

>>14163324
What % protein flour are you using? I've had trouble getting good rise on my sourdough lately because I can't find bread flour. You might also try folding/kneading more and making sure you aren't overproofing.

>>14155173
been making sour dough for the last few weeks. One on the right is a banana sourdough. Pretty delicious.

>>14163391
I bought a $300 thing. Used it once and the bread was a failure. Never used it again.

>>14163324
Maybe not resting it long enough before sticking it in the oven? I've been doing no knead so I stretch and fold over a couple of hours then leave it over night in the fridge. Then shape in the morning and let sit for an hour before sticking it in the oven.

>>14155182
Propably yes, although genital yeast might have problems thriving with flour since grain is not it's primary habitat.

>>14158642
what's the point of this kind of crumb? Makes it impossible to spread stuff on it.

pumpkin bread

I'm going to make a parmesan and thyme sourdough wheat bread to go with soup and clams for mother's day. Wish me luck /bread/.

>>14166364
regular bread flour with tiny additions of whole grain and rye, what recipe calls for
>>14167141
did just that too, following the timings in the recipe to the letter
before going into the oven the dough looks just right, last time maybe a touch too relaxed but it had solid rise and decent gluten, held shape and all before becoming flat in the oven

>>14167438
>held shape and all before becoming flat in the oven
hmm. I cook for 25 mins at 230C and then 35 mins at 200C. I also steam the oven. my bread is usually about 80% hydration. Maybe your starter is just in a bad place or maybe you're in summer and I'm in winter and that's causing differences.

>>14167507
well I ordered oven thermometer today, I'll try lower temps when it arrives

>>14163391
Contrary to other anons, i'd avoid enamel. Enamel makes stuff stick easier than cast iron, the burnt muck stands out more than on a cast iron (looks dirty) and the enamel chips with age whereas cast iron is eternal. It's also more expensive. Some ppl claim enamel is good because acidic foods corrode iron, but i regularly cook acidic stews in my cast iron and i've never had a problem with it.

Get a round cast iron pot with wide, oven-safe handles. Make sure it easily fits in your oven. Look for good quality second hand, i got mine for 35€ whereas a new one is like 100€

>>14167099
Was the banana bread leavened with starter only or did you use baking soda/powder? Was the dough wet like a batter or dry like a dough?

Interesting idea, might give it a try

>>14167161
It's pleasing to the eye, poor sandwich bread tho for sure.

>>14167438
Deflation during baking may be a sign of over-proofing or poor forming.

A loaf can only expand so much before it can no longer hold it's shape and the gasses escape. How much gas a dough can trap depends on the amount and strength of the gluten network. If you proof a dough to the limit, it can't withstand the additional rise of oven-spring, resulting in deflation.

What determines whether the gas in the bread gets distributed into a very large number of small bubbles (like sandwich bread or brioche) or a smaller number of larger bubbles (pain de campagne style sourdoughs)?

>>14167695
Higher hydration is one factor, propably because it's easier for the bubbles to move around and converge. Shaping and high activity leavener likely play a part too.

First attempt making baguette

>>14166319
do you need to switch your starter to white flour?surely if you keep up with whole it will keep a strong culture?

>>14167657
>Some ppl claim enamel is good because acidic foods corrode iron, but i regularly cook acidic stews in my cast iron and i've never had a problem with it.
its true, cast iron leaks into the food you make, but barely a problem, will make the meal healthier if anything, with the only exception if you're overdoing a bit, I remember something about excess iron but don't know if it holds up

>>14167695
read this and the previous thread, literally was on that subject not long ago, and I did the same question a few days ago

>>14167785
In any case imo the cons greatly outweight the pros

>>14167773
A starter can feed on most flours/cereals. Wholemeal just contains more nutrients, making for a slightly more robust starter. That and the fact it's easier to start a starter with wholemeal (due to higher propability of inborn yeast) are the main reasons you see whole wheat in so many starter recipes.

You can bake sourdough with any flour just fine. Strong white flour gives elasticity and wholemeal imparts flavour.

>>14167689
it's only my fifth or sixth time baking bread so I guess I still have a lot of learning ahead
I think it's definitely something in the ways of timing and dough handling at the latter stages because the starter is ok for sure.

>>14167849
I just fed my starter from 50g starter + 100g flour + 100g water
for some reason I can't help myself but use sole wholemeal for the starter, however I'm aiming to use the higher amount of whole meal starter adding only white flour to make the dough,
my starter (new) hasn't been showing much activity, but its pretty bubbly, just stirring it up I can see bubbles forming almost immediately, but its not getting much of a rise
hopefully by night it will have gotten that nice consistency

>>14167771
crust looks nice, whats the secret of the baguette?

>>14167930
Don't fret about the volume of your starter, look for consistent overall bubbling and a sour, fruity smell. How old is your starter?

The amount a starter expands after feeding can depend on anything from the hydration of the starter to the atmosphere in your kitchen. In your case it's propably due to whole wheat producing a less elastic dough, resulting in less gas getting trapped.

>>14155173
Hey Everybody!
Cursed-kitchen Anon here.
I've been failing at making bread for quite some time now.
At first, I tried sourdough, made 4 starters in separate jars, got bubbles in all 4, but couldn't get them to rise in the jar.
My kitchen temp is in the mid-70's and I'm using filtered city water.
Finally got the starter to fluff up n the jars after I put them in the oven with the light on, temps about 85 to 90.
OK, lets make some bread, right?
Oh fuck no.
I made about 4 or 5 flat flour cookies with no fucking crumb before giving up.
I tried using a dutch oven, a bowl of water, every damn thing I saw in various youtube videos.
I could get the dough to rise (in the 85-90 degree environment), but never got any oven spring.
So I bought some dry active yeast, and the first two loaves were fucking FANTASTIC, Oh, the crust was sketchy, soft and chewy, but the crumb was open and just completely great.
So then I tried using both sourdough starter _and _ dry yeast, because I love that sourdough flavor.
Four fucking loaves, all perfectly flat. Might as well have been trying to make dog biscuits.
OK, sad, but not the end, I'll go back to just dry yeast.
Four or five flat loaves later, I'm starting to think I'm losing my mind.
Despite my previous wonderful loaves, I'm still getting absolutely NO oven spring.
After much research, posting here and wracking my brain, I decide to get concentrated wheat gluten.
Ok, here's my latest attempt:
400g flour
65% hydration = 260g flour
let autolyse 1 hour
mix 30g flour, 26g 102degree water and a teaspoon of yeast in a highball glass
Let sit 15 minutes at room temp (72).
No fuckiing bubbles. Not one.
Throw that out, start yeast again.
mix teaspoon of sugar, 26g 102degree water and a teaspoon of yeast in a highball glass
Let sit 15 minutes at room temp (72).
Foamy as all get out.
cont...

>>14168061
...cont
Mix in enough flour to active yeast flour for 65% hydration.
Mix into existing shaggy dough, along with a tablespoon of salt.
Slap-n-fold for 8-10 minutes, until gluten well developed.
Let rise 1 hr in covered bowl in 85 degree light-on oven, doubles in size,
Work into a well-stretched loaf shape, let rise another hour, doubles again.
preheat oven to 475 with dutch oven inside.
Dutch oven has grating inside, allows for 1/2" of water under loaf.
Once oven is hot, re-fill water, place parchment on top of grating,add loaf on top.
Bake 25 minutes, remove lid from dutch oven, spray loaf with water.
Bake another 20 minutes.

It came out with a great crust, and it did rise a little (pics related), but still so-so crumb, not nearly as good as the first two yeast loaves I made.
WHAT THE FUCK am I doing wrong?
Why can't I get the same crumb I origanaly did?
Why won't my yeast proof without sugar?
Why does nothing rise in my kitchen at temperatures in the 70's?

>>14168061
>65% hydration = 260g WATER
oops

>>14168061
Double-oops, left out adding 1 tblsp gluten to autolysing dough.

>>14155173

>>14167951
this one is five days olds, it was giving off a very nice fruity smell, the consistency is nice and bubbling too, this was it here >>14160801
now what I'm worried is that it stopped giving such obvious signs of activity like in pic related
now where I live we're in the cold season, it gets pretty cold around 20°C a night, but reasonable during the day, however I've been giving it warmer water in all feedings
now this last feed I gave a much high ratio of fresh flour than starter, so I'm hoping it will ramp up in acvity
also this time it isn't showing nearly no liquid build up on top, almost no sourness,

>>14167773
Not for pizza. Who wants whole wheat in their pizza crust?

>>14168061
>>14168064
are you using cold water for your dough? the temperature of your ingredients matters just as much as the temperature of the air.

maybe use more yeast or less salt.

>>14168061
>>14168064
No way is that a loaf baked for 45 mins at 246 celsius, i bake mine lower and my crust is the colour of light coffee beans. Have you checked your oven temps?

There's really no need to use water if you're using a dutch oven with a lid, the dough will create enough steam as is. Too much moisture is detrimental, were baking not steaming here. Also don't wet the crust after the first half, the steam has done its thing already and spraying at this point just leads to worse coloring/crisp.

Also 65% hydration is kinda on the lower end, try to up it to 70-75%. Wetter dough has better potential for oven spring, at the expense of being harder to handle ofc.

>>14168329
Five days is still a really young starter, might take weeks to stabilize. Key here is consistency. Feed it daily and keep the amounts and ingredients the same, don't get too worried if the activity fluctuates, that's just nature. As soon as you manage to get some activity for the first time, it's hard to kill it as long as you don't deviate from the method.
>now this last feed I gave a much high ratio of fresh flour than starter, so I'm hoping it will ramp up in acvity
Quite the contrary, actually. You're increasing the volume of fresh, unfermented dough in relation to the number of yeast cells in your starter. That means the yeast has more work to do to get the entire thing fermented. The more it has to work, the more time it needs and the more likely it is that something goes wrong (for example an unwanted organism might start fighting the now smaller colony of yeast for the larger space available).

>>14168525
I wouldn't recommend increasing the amount of yeast, 1 tsp is more than enough seeing his dough doubles in volume in just 1 hour

>Finish baking
>Turn off oven
>2 hours later
>BONK!!!
I keep nearly shitting myself when this happens.

>>14155173
Made a rye loaf. I used to make a lot of these when i first got into baking bread, but i later gravitated towards wheat breads. Guess my rye game is getting rusty, this one didn't rise as much as i wanted. Luckily rye crumb is really soft even when dense and the flavour was great, not to mention the almost teeth shattering crunch of the crust. Ate it with some butter, cheese and sauerkraut.

I took some nice pics but apparently my country has a range-ban on images so just imagine a somewhat small dark loaf with a cracked exterior next to my post.

>>14168612
What % of rye did/do you use? I had one at around 40% and the rise was nonexistant. I think it's supposed to be like that with high % rye?

>>14168525
>maybe use more yeast or less salt.
how much does salt affect the recipe? is it just to slow yeast activity? does it still go when making sourdough?

>>14168528
>Quite the contrary, actually. You're increasing the volume of fresh, unfermented dough in relation to the number of yeast cells in your starter.
but doesn't it also adds a lot more food for the already established yeast to go through?
this is really conflicting since I've seen people say sometimes they will even leave only scraps to let the starter go on
I've also heard they will usually go through whole meal much faster and end up starving faster

>>14168621
I used 100% wholemeal rye (well excluding the small amount of wheat in the starter), it's a Finnish type of rye bread. Obviously rye is way different compared to wheat but the ones i buy at the store or bakeries are usually much lighter, like a fine sponge. I used 70% hydration, might try a bit higher with longer proofing.

>>14168525
>are you using cold water for your dough?
Nope, the water for the autolyse is room temperature, I keep a Brita pitcher on my counter.
Plus the dough is autolysing for an hour before the yeast goes in.
When I proof my yeast, I shoot for 100 degrees, using a digital thermometer.

>>14168525
>maybe use more yeast or less salt.
Maybe. I do want to add this loaf is delicious even if the crumb isn't ideal.
Between those posts and now, I cut slices about 1/4" thick, using a deli slicer, then lightly toasted the slices for a ham and cheese sandwich with spinach, tomato and onion.
Odd shape aside, it worked out pretty well like that.
Still hoping for a more open crumb and less flat loaf though.

>>14168528
>No way is that a loaf baked for 45 mins at 246 celsius,
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was, I've checked my oven temp with a thermometer in the past.
I did open the door once to remove the dutch oven lid.

>There's really no need to use water if you're using a dutch oven with a lid, the dough will create enough steam as is.
I'm sure that's good advice, but I'm pulling out all the stops here. This is the first time in 8-10 loaves I've gotten any oven spring at all, and the only two things I changed this time was adding a tablespoon of gluten and the water inside the dutch oven.

> Also don't wet the crust after the first half, the steam has done its thing already and spraying at this point just leads to worse coloring/crisp.
I'm less worried about the crust, but this the best crust (except the bottom) that I've ever had.

>>14168528
>Also 65% hydration is kinda on the lower end, try to up it to 70-75%
Good idea. Before I added gluten, people were suggesting I go down to 65% based on how hard the dough was to handle, I'll go back to 70% next time.

>>14168639
>but doesn't it also adds a lot more food for the already established yeast to go through?
Yes, in the sense that a set amount of yeast will live longer the more food it has. But the thing is it takes the yeast longer to show signs of activity, since it first has to multiply enough to accomodate the whole dough. This is why the more starter/yeast you add to a dough, the faster it will rise/proof. When creating a starter you should always keep the amount you discard and feed the same. If you suddenly drastically reduce the amount of starter relative to the total volume, the yeast has to work harder to get to the same level of activity as before. In a fresh, unstable starter this might cause problems.

>this is really conflicting since I've seen people say sometimes they will even leave only scraps to let the starter go on
Properly aged, stable starter has no problems with starting from scraps. Even so, the more you discard, the less you feed it to ensure the activity springs back to normal levels reliably. Point is there's less leeway with a fresh starter.

>I've also heard they will usually go through whole meal much faster and end up starving faster
Can't confirm or debunk this, all i can say is that wholemeal is slightly more nutritious. Could work both ways. That being said my 50% wholemeal 50% all-purpose starter can easily go over a month in the fridge between feedings.

>>14168683
>but I'm pulling out all the stops here.
i'm pretty sure you're doing too much. there are a lot of variables that go into making a "perfect" loaf of bread and they're all interconnected.

>>14168064
>>14168683
You could also try proofing it a bit longer, maybe 1,5h or even 2h for a commercial yeast loaf. "Doubling in size" is a great fool-proof measure but if you still want a lighter crust you gotta push it a bit more.

>>14167669
Nah I hate the idea of adding baking soda to a sourdough.
recipie:
2 ripe banana
300g starter
550g flour
350g water
100g brown sugar
Dough was pretty wet. I let it sit for a few hours stiring occasionally. butter and flour on the baking dish. Actually tastes pretty damn good.

>>14167930
>my starter (new) hasn't been showing much activity
My starter doubled day 3 or 4 then it took about 2 weeks in total before it came back to life. I used largely wholemeal during the initial starter however did mix in a bit of white here and there.

>>14168759
>i'm pretty sure you're doing too much. there are a lot of variables that go into making a "perfect" loaf of bread and they're all interconnected.
I know that sounds right, but trust me, there's _something_ I'm doing that isn't right and I may never figure it out through trial and error.
I did make two great loaves (in a row) by shear luck, and can't do it again to save my life.
It's very frustrating, and the problems keep changing.
Before I got the gluten, I was following a ciabatta recipe that called for 3 rises, and the dough was getting ultra-sticky. People here suggested the dough was over-proofed, so I did the exact same thing, but with only two rises, and everybody said that loaf was under-proofed.
This time around I couldn't get my yeast to proof with flour and water alone, not a bubble. I'm measuring everything with a scale, and even use a digital thermometer for water temperature, but I can't get the results twice in a row.
And why won't anything in my kitchen rise without me putting it in the oven with the light on?
My yeast is one suspect, I guess I'll buy another batch, even though this one's only two months old.
Maybe I should buy bottled water to bake with?

>>14168761
>You could also try proofing it a bit longer,
See above. Before I added gluten, I was often over-proofing, getting a nasty sticky mess that had no oven spring.
Then again, nothing has oven spring, so who knows?

>>14169080
>Nah I hate the idea of adding baking soda to a sourdough.
Figured as much but all the recipes for banana bread i've seen have been batters that are leavened with baking powder. In other words no fermentation needed, more like a cake i guess. I was thinking maybe you made a batter with sourdough, fermented it and then leavened with baking soda via the lactic acid.

>>14168177
that looks so friggin' tasty anon

>>14169107
>but I can't get the SAME results twice in a row.

>>14169107
Unfortunately it's really hard to make out whats wrong over the internet, you just gotta keep at it and research. Or have an experienced baker watch while you bake.

>>14169115
>fermented it and then leavened with baking soda via the lactic acid.
Only been doing this a few weeks so you lost me here. All the recipes I saw used baking powder/soda as well so I just thought I'd try and make it up as I went. I don't know exactly how long I autolysed/proved it as I tried to read the batter but it might have been half the day. Started making in morning, ate after dinner.

>>14169103
you didn't use it at all on those 2 weeks?

>>14169137
Nah I didn't use any until it was ready to go. I discarded lots into the compost though. My first stater failed but my second one I just persisted until it started doubling again.

>>14169137
unless you're talking about flour in which case I have 20kg wholemeal 20kg white in the cupboard.

>>14169129
What i meant was how i would have done it is by first fermenting a loose banana-batter with starter, then leavening it with baking soda (which needs acid to activate, in this case the lactic acid from the starter) and baking straight away. What i was wondering was whether you made a loose batter or a firm dough, since a slow fermenting sourdough doesn't sound like the best way to quickly trap bubbles in a loose batter like the usual banana bread recipe.

Hope this is making sense

>>14169215
Ahh I see. It was probably closer to a batter than a dough. I mixed the starter and the banana. Mixed in the water. Mixed in the sugar. The finally the flour. I wasn't expecting it to work to be honest. Going to put bacon on it for breakfast this morning.

check out my soudough starter, quality is best I can get to get to max file size (thanks moot for that)
there are only few small bubbles on the side and on the top, however the consistency is something else, and I think the way I'm stirring it is almost creating strong dough connection even at this stage, when I do it like this it doesn't stick that much to the fork

>>14169686
also I'm really liking the idea to give constant mixes, aerating the mixture
the idea is that more air will help out yeast activity
it definitely seems to like it, at the end you can almost see bubbles forming up immediately
would you guys say this baby is ready for use?

Just brushed this down with some butter

>>14169741

>>14161733
Jesus my first pizzas were shit but this looks like you did as bad as possible on purpose

At least your sort of made a circle but that looks like canned Pillsbury dough so that doesn't even count

>>14168398
Fuck you tubby

Made a bit o wheat rolls

Been making pizzas for a couple months now, my dumb fucking ass was skipping the kneading and not using enough yeast. Eager to see if there's a difference next time I do pizza

Kneading this was fun and relaxing

fuck, my overnight dough is super sticky and hard to fold, should just hope for the best and wait until morning for shaping, or do I brute force shaping right now and it doesn't overproof through the night?
temps are going below 20°C

>>14170570
Noice, what's the crumb like?

>>14170654
>super fucking sticky dough
>was able to make even more of an mess than any of my previous tries
how is it possible to get worse the more you try something?

>>14169686
>>14169723
Whats the hydration of your starter? How old is it?
>would you guys say this baby is ready for use?
You don't necessarily need a shitton of bubbles but you need more than that. Hard to really tell from that angle and resolution. Hows the smell? Taste?
> and I think the way I'm stirring it is almost creating strong dough connection even at this stage
Yeah, thats called gluten pal.

"Aerating" is definitely an extra step, tho i understand your reasoning behind it. Then again, you dont see ppl aerating their doughs after the initial mixing/kneading. Just keep in mind every time you handle the starter there's a risk of contamination, although it's only relevant with a young starter.

>>14170654
You can reduce the risk of overproofing by putting it in the fridge, this slows down the fermentation a lot.

How long did you bulk ferment? Was the dough sticky before or after?

>>14170742
I don't know what crumb means but thank you jeebus

>>14171365
A crumb is the inside of a loaf

>>14171441
I wouldn't know if it was good or bad, but it was unironically very good and I didn't lie to myself and pretend to like it like most of my food

>>14167940
>>14167771

No oil, only strong flour, yeast, salt and water. Poolish starter, strong initial mixing to develop the gluten but not much further kneading. You can see the crumb is waxy and stretchy.
You get a crust like this from a very hot oven with lots of steam, it melts the dextrose in the flour giving a shiny and crunchy crust.

Catoge

>>14171506
Lol, I'm mostly asking if it's dense with small bubbles (holes) like cornbread or cake, or is it big fluffy holes, more like a ciabatta roll.

>>14171201
>Yeah, thats called gluten pal.
yeah but not expect with 100% hydration

>>14171201
>Then again, you dont see ppl aerating their doughs after the initial mixing/kneading
isn't that exactly what folding is supposed to be?

>>14171215
>How long did you bulk ferment?
about 3h in some folds in between
the left it overnight on the kitchen, ranging 20~16°C

>Was the dough sticky before or after?
both, in different ways though, I think I messed up the starter calculation it was too wet, it wasn't too bad though
but then after fermenting some, it got really pretty fucking sticky, as if I would hold it with my hand and flip it down, it literally didn't fall
literally dusted a ton of flour afraid of sticking it to cloth overnight
I think it had a decent growth but basically no oven spring, gonna post later the result

>>14169107
>even though this one's only two months old.
your problems certainly could be due to shitty yeast. have you been keeping it refrigerated when you're not using it? it should last ~6 months refrigerated after opening.

>Maybe I should buy bottled water to bake with?
tap water can have stuff in it that will interfere with yeast production. i use distilled water. some bottled waters are really just bottled tap water.

i think you're autolysing too long.

>>14172161
>your problems certainly could be due to shitty yeast. have you been keeping it refrigerated when you're not using it? it should last ~6 months refrigerated after opening.
Thanks! I put most of it in a mason jar at room temp, but luckily it didn't all fit, and I put the remainder in the fridge.
I'll try using some from the fridge next time.

>>14172161
>i use distilled water. some bottled waters are really just bottled tap water.
Yeah, I'll give this a try as an experiment, but it would really suck if I have to buy water to bake a loaf of bread.

>i think you're autolysing too long.
Neat. At first I came here for advice and was told to autolyse for 3 hours, then 1 hour, now how long?
I doubt that this is my problem, since it relates to gluten devlopment more so than oven spring.

My roommate says I should try making buns and rolls instead of loaves of bread since buns aren't supposed to be over 2-3" tall anyway.
Thoughts?

>>14172178
actually, i think your autolyse time doesn't really matter. i'd leave that the same and try fresher yeast and/or different water. store-bought water isn't that expensive if you buy in bulk.

this might help you too: https://www.busbysbakery.com/oven-spring-a-guide-on-how-it-works/

honestly, as long as the bread tasted good and had a good texture i wouldn't worry too much about oven spring.

Friends I need help. I've been slowly attempting to increase hydration on my sourdough, I'm using the pain de campagne recipe from FWSY. So I started using ap flour and having to do around 65% hydration at best, my country's flour is very weak, 9%. I got some good results though. Thing is I learned that the only way for me to get stronger flour would be to buy vital gluten, which I did, I also added while wheat to the dough, 10%.

Now I can do 76% hydration before I get scared it'll become soup. But my crust seems to have gotten a lot worse. I used to get very pretty ears and nice deep scoring. Now they feel shallow and like they didn't take, my loaves feel a little flatter too. That said, I think the crumb, which looked like the book before, now has more large bubbles. I'll post the current loaf, the crumbshot and a pic of an older loaf, at 65%.

>>14172526
The crumbshot, sorry I cut it badly, I was getting a little nervous.

>>14172531
Older bread, 10% whole wheat and 65%

>>14172526

What are you using to score? Especially with much wetter doughs, a curved lame helps a lot. You may also just be scoring it a little more timidly now that you're working with more difficult dough.

>>14172342
>, as long as the bread tasted good and had a good texture i wouldn't worry too much about oven spring.
It tasted good, but the texture sucks. This loaf was better than the last 8-10, but because it's so dense and non-airy, the texture really isn't good.
It's like trying to make sandwiches with cornbread, except less crumbly.

Another problem is it makes for some really skinny sandwiches.

I'm about to go make the same recipe, but as a batch of sandwich rolls, maybe that will work out better with this crumb.

Doing Hamelman's Harvest Bread this week, then mixing vollkornbrot later tonight. The harvest bread is 40% whole wheat at 78% hydration, plus walnuts and raisins (though the recipe calls for half golden raisins/half dried cranberries).

>>14173438
>I'm about to go make the same recipe, but as a batch of sandwich rolls, maybe that will work out better with this crumb.
OK, I'm back. And this just isn't going much better this time.
I've switched from the room-temp yeast to the stuff I've been keeping in the fridge. Both are from the same package I bought about 2 months ago.
I've also changed the hydration from 65 to 70%.
recipe:
500 grams all-purpose flour
1 tblsp gluten
350 grams water
45 minute autolyse (74 degrees)
1 tsp yeast (proofed in 100 degree water w/ some of the flour)
1 tblsp salt
1:15 rise time, not quite doubled, (85 degrees)
After the rise I've kneeded half the dough and split into three buns, they're currently in a 475 oven inside a dutch oven along with 1/2" of water below a mesh grating.
The buns were so wet I couldn't really score the top, but I tried.
The rest of the dough is doing a retard in the fridge.
The gluten is VERY well developed, and windowpanes well, but the dough was so sticky during the second keeding, I'm worried it's already over-proofed, even though it didn't quite double in size.
On the plus side, I didn't need sugar to get the yeast to proof.
Fingers crossed.

>>14173650

Pre-shape, bench rest.

>>14174001
Great Googly-Moogly!
This could be the real deal.
Sorry for the poor pic, but I'm only halfway through the bake, and I didn't leave the oven open longer to get the better pic.
These things aren't getting very tall, but they've fluffed up like crazy, 25 minutes in.
It'll be a while before I know for sure, but based on the volume increase, I'm hoping the crumb will be light and fluffy.
I'm really hoping for some decent sandwich buns, and even though I might never figure out what it takes to make a decent loaf, I might be making some decent sandwiches and hamburgers soon!

>>14174099

Looking good anon, keep it up and make sure to check in when they're done.

>>14174053

>>14174119

>>14170517
It was honestly the best pizza i had made. Perfect time in the oven, perfect thickness, crust tasted the best it ever has. I've had one of my pizzas stick to this pan but not as bad as this.
I just got so mad I started scooping the topping off and turned them into cheese toasties. So at least I still got to eat.

>>14174119
>check in when they're done.
Well....
I'm also cooking dinner so kind-of pressed for time.
The upper crust is looking good.
The lower crust is soggy.
It looks like the water in the bottom of the dutch oven was a bad idea.
Thumping the top, it doesn't sound hollow at all.
I'll have to wait to see, but I have little hope for the crumb at this point.
I've put it back in the oven on a small round rack to crisp up the bottom, will post pics later tonight, and probably try making the other half into three buns without the water.

>>14174233

First loaf.

Ok lads, fuckup #3
bricked up hard, also badly stuck to the paper again, I even tried using just the grate instead of a solid pan
this thing sat bulk fermenting for a fucking long time (12h 20°C-), it had grown a bit in the morning, but only a few actually bubbles
its a new starter that was showing some good activity earlier on,
also I only added white flour besides what had in the starter, but I realized later that flour was pretty old, bordering on moldy, though Idk how can be blamed on that alone

>>14174237
Hey, I'm back.
So the outside looks great, and the top is really almost too crispy, but the inside is a disaster.

>>14175264
Here's the crumb.
I'm not even sure what I'm looking at here.
There's a few small bubbles, and the center is not fully baked? But most of it is just hard to describe. It's VERY chewy, and dense, springy?, like a really dense sponge, maybe.
The oven was set to 475, and a thermometer said 450.

I let the other half of the dough do a retard in the fridge for about 4 hours. That made it much easier to handle. Still fairly sticky, but I took half of what's left to make two buns, and put the last part of the dough back in the fridge.

This time, I'm skipping the dutch oven and instead I'm using a fairly thick shallow pan as a baking stone with corn meal to keep the buns from sticking.
I'm using a pyrex bowl with water for humidity.
And this time, I'm not opening the door for 45 minutes.
It's been in just over 20 minutes, and I'll post results later.

>>14174480
>sat bulk fermenting for a fucking long time (12h 20°C-),
Obviously, I'm not in a position to give actual advice, but _nothing_ rises in my kitchen at 74F (23C), so I have to bulk ferment in the oven with the light turned on, it gets about 85F (29.5C) in there.

>>14175292
forgot to mention:
The pictured "bun" was in the oven for 25 minutes before I removed the lid from the dutch oven, then another 25 before I pulled them out.
It _did_ pass the toothpick test, I poked it with a thin bamboo skewer, and it came out dry.

With the buns currently in the oven, I was able to score the top, which just didn't work for the ones shown.

>>14175292
yeah looks very similar indeed, its more like a pasty crumb, not developed at all, even though there are a few bubbles here and there
are you also doing sourdough?
even if the kitchen is cold, there should be fermentation given enough time, IF the yeast is active at all
I read somewhere is about double the time for each 7°C lower than the ideal,

What to do with sourdough discards? I saw on a place you can kind store them on the fridge until you have enough make some cookie doughs with them, is it worth it?

>>14175302
Me again.
Well, this next batch is interesting.
I didn't spray the tops with water, and that's probably while they're still white?
And while most of my loaves spread out instead of up, the one in the back looks like a Hershey Kiss.
This is after 55 minutes in the oven.
I'll give it another 5-10 just in case, the pull them and let them cool.
Meanwhile, I'll start the last two.

>>14175386
>are you also doing sourdough?
No. I tried it at first, got 4 starters going.
All bubbled, but none got that "doubles after feeding thing" at 74F until I put them in the oven with the light on at 85-90F.
Even then, the loaves never got any oven spring, despite proofing well.

>>14175386
>even if the kitchen is cold, there should be fermentation given enough time, IF the yeast is active at all
My dry active yeast proofs like crazy, but my loaves don't rise.

>>14175410
>no oven spring, no loaf rising
I know the feeling
funny thing is that on my first try I had actually decent success, it grew as much as I wanted, but was better than anything that came after
it may be bad oven, it also may be colder weather, are you south hemisphere bro?
also, can you be sure your flour is fresh?

>>14175432
>funny thing is that on my first try I had actually decent success,
ME TOO! After I switched to dry yeast, I got two incredible loaves. Nothing since.

> south hemisphere bro?
God, I wish. I was born in the greatest nation on Earth (in 1964). We started slipping in the 80's and now we aren't even in the top ten.
Shit sucks man, you guys taking applications?

>>14175432
>also, can you be sure your flour is fresh?
I bought it about 2-3 months ago, not sure how I'd tell.

This is my latest sourdough, what you guys think?
https://i.imgur.com/oLiWoaE.mp4

>>14175410
OK, I'mm'a officially need to be institutionalized.
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME
I bake something, new different and exciting prevents me from succeeding.
The third time tonight, I've got the temp knob on the oven maxed out at 500, get it pre-heated, pop my last two buns in, WOW is that oven hot.
Come back 25 mins later, oven light is still on. but its's just not hot. The element isn't running, the separate thermo says it's 178F in the oven.
The dough has risen slightly, but not much.
At least this time I know the problem is with the oven itself, and not the result of how much God hates me (at least not directly)
So I'm finalizing my online grocery pickup for tomorrow and just added 4 ciabata rolls for about $5.20, fml.

On another approach, I was thinking about buying kits made for use with an actual bread machine.
Surely _that will work, right?
Maybe, but it costs $5-15 per loaf!
Jesus, I've just got to wonder, what percentage of people just can't do this?
I mean, unless you've got the magic touch you just can't bake, huh?
I'm sure everybody ITT can bake, but what percentage of people try this, and eventually succeed, vs how many people JUST CAN'T BAKE, no matter what?

>>14171988
Sorry for the slow reply, it's pretty dense

I don't feel like opening it up but this pic doesn't really show the crumb, but I know it had holes when I ate it yesterday

Or maybe I did a shit job at kneading? Or is wheat just like that. It looks like shit

>>14175558
Looks good to me. Is it tangy enough?

>>14175779
>Looks good to me. Is it tangy enough?
It's got a little bite.
:^)

>>14171988
>>14175768
got damn this is tasty. Here are some holes.

>>14175820
GAWWWWD, I wish I could do that.

>>14175827
Wow really anon? Thanks. It was my first time. I have made some sketchy pizza dough a few dozen times now so that helped a little

I am likely clinically retarded so I am sure you could do the same as i

>>14175747
are you at a higher altitude?
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/learn/resources/high-altitude-baking

Using starter discard to make pancakes, damn good.

>>14175835
>I am sure you could do the same as i
I'm this guy:
>>14168061
>>14168064
>>14168651
>>14168683
>>14169107
>>14172178
>>14173438
>>14174001
>>14174099
>>14174237
>>14175264
>>14175292
>>14175401
>>14175410
>>14175463
>>14175747
I've made 14-15 loaves. Two came out GREAT, one was OK, the rest were complete failures.
Funny thing is, the two good ones were very early on, and I haven't been able to do as well since.
It's like I'm reverse learning.
My latest alternative theory is my local water utility started putting something in the tap water?

>>14175884
>are you at a higher altitude?
Nope, 100' above sea level.

>>14175558
>sourdough grows legs and walks away
seems like normal for me
also webm that shit

>>14175884
oh fuck, well I'm in 850m (~2800ft) above sea level, that article doesn't help exactly with what affects what, also why can't they use proper measurements
one thing that I can think really impacts it, is how usually gas comes out at much higher pressure in sea level, and that also temperatures are usually lower the higher you go, so in turn is much harder to get proper oven temperature

>>14176187
>the creamy consistency
wth... I did just ask that yesterday, >>14175399
how do you do it, just keep accumulating the discards in a separate jar in the fridge and then use it when you have enough?
I'm wondering what else to use it with, making cookies and crisps seems like a fine idea, but what adjustments do I need to make?

>>14176628
Me again.
Here's a new observation:
When I say "doubles in size", I mean it spreads out far more than up.
Whether I'm proofing or baking, the expansion is mostly horizontal, with little height gain.
My Hershey's Kisses >>14175401 are an exception.
I'm wondering if this rings a bell for anybody.
Thanks in advance.

I think I'm having issues with baking.
The proofing et al seems fine. Nice and light, good rise. My baking instructions are 475 on a pan on a stone for 5 minutes (misted), 10 more on 450, then 10 on the stone itself.
My rack is about middle, I'm guessing maybe having it lower well help?
How should i bake my sourdough next time?

Why do I get these weird bubbles in the crust? Why do my slashes not split open nicely? I proofed these loaves in the fridge overnight so they stuck to the baskets a little bit and the dough dried out and had a pretty thick skin, so that probably didn't help.

>>14177643
Pop any big bubbles you can see before dropping the dough in the basket for the final proof.

>>14175747
Buy a bread book, follow the instructions TO THE LETTER, and see if you don't have better luck.

>>14176708
I use the King Arthur sourdough pancake/waffle recipe. I cut the recipe in half, so it only needs about 120g of discard, and it'll still make enough for 4 big Belgian style waffles.

>>14176708
https://www.tastesoflizzyt.com/sourdough-pancakes/
I was using this recipe which I halved, it was enough for 8 pancakes (the recipe says 6). If you're feeding your starter in a 100g/100g/100g ratio then you'll have enough discard (200g) when you come to use it.

>>14177643
The gluten membrane on the top needs to be tighter to get rid of those. When you shape it for a final time make sure to get it tight

>>14176701
Yea I'm not sure about actual measurements it was just a theory I had since I know altitude affects boiling and other cooking shit. I think this might help though first result i found on google that seemed more in depth:
https://www.wheatmontana.com/content/high-altitude-baking-how-make-your-recipes-work-mountains

>been puzzling because for the past two weeks my bakes have come out half shit bricks
>been puzzling because oven seems to do shit, after 60 minutes all it does is dry the shit out of it, not even close to the targeted temp
FUCK, the gas went out this morning, I live in one of those apartments with shared piped gas, turns out the previous tank must've been half open only,
fucking hell, I did see the difference in flame almost immediately boiling water, just now I was able to heat fridge pizza to a crisp in 10 minutes

>>14177928
>>14177824
thanks but you kinda didn't answer my question, if just to keep adding to the bottle, I'm wondering what would be the time limit for that
200g is a heck of a lot of starter to discard, maybe ok if you're doing weekly, but holy shit
also I'm still trying to get my starter stable, its been a week, its just very dough-ey but seems completely inert, like no rise, barely any smell, fuck

>>14177787
>Buy a bread book, follow the instructions TO THE LETTER, and see if you don't have better luck.
I've been doing that with YouTube, I suggest you try it.
This one says "never let yeast touch salt", that one says that's a myth, and proves it by mixing the two.
Another one one says, "let your dough rise overnight, in a warm spot", but when I do that, it's waaaaay, over proofed, and was completely impossible to handle, and wouldn't rise when I poured it into a dutch oven.
Some people swear by autolysing, though most don't bother. Ditto a refrigerated retard.
A hundred different youtubers tell me "room temp" is fine for proofing and rising, but anything under 85 doesn't work AT ALL in my kitchen, not sourdough, not dry active yeast, not nothing.

> TO THE LETTER
There are a million recipes out there, I've tried several, and I never went "gee I should probably add a half-cup of vinegar, or maybe some fiberglass insulation, huh?".
According to every source I've ever consulted, everything I'm doing _should_ work, and two out of 14-15 loaves worked really well, but repeating the same steps just doesn't give the same results.
There's clearly SOMETHING here that's changing from try to try without my knowledge or consent, and I want to know what the hell it is.
There's just no way I'm the first person on God's Green Earth that's had this problem, even if nobody still on /ck/ has.
I can only assume my fellow retards have moved on to heroin addiction or fly fishing.
Maybe I'm just too stubborn for my own good, but I will learn how to bake, or live to be a hundred failing once a week at something every other idiot can do.

>>14178434
I don't think I understand you. I only use fresh discard in a recipe, if you leave it too long it'll start to go really sour and it'll taste unpleasant. I feed my starter daily, so each time I'm throwing away 200g of discard. It's not that big of a deal, it's only 100g of flour that I'm wasting, so hardly an expensive commodity.

The bottom of my tin usually grabs bottom layer of my bread I've tried oiling/flouring what could be the issue
Nothing else usually sticks just the bottom

>>14178957
Use cast iron you pleb.

>>14178518
You're combining multiple people's methods, which may not play well together. If you try a method that one person has refined for use in their own recipes, you'll be more likely to succeed. Don't start improvising using a mishmash of ideas if you can't consistently get the basics right. And make sure to record your weights, temperatures, etc. so you can replicate what you did if you get it right.

>>14178518
>Can't proof at less than 30 degrees
Guess Europeans have never ate bread
>>14179009
I've never seen or heard of a cast iron bread tin and they're not on amazon or any of the kitchen sites here desu

>>14178957
Try parchment paper?

>>14178799
> I only use fresh discard in a recipe, if you leave it too long it'll start to go really sour and it'll taste unpleasant.
that was exactly what I meant, and I wanted if there are people who keep accumulating their discard, it shouldn't too much in consistency and specially if refrigerated slow down on the bacteria activity,
I would use it that, at least that's how to make it useful, and that's the idea I got from looking at "discard recipes"
100g waste of flour doesn't seem too much, but its every fucking day, in a month its 3kg of flour wasted

>>14178518
>Maybe I'm just too stubborn for my own good, but I will learn how to bake, or live to be a hundred failing once a week at something every other idiot can do.
on the same boat, been failling miserably, but my starter finally just showed a bit of activity, this webm is too big to post here but watch it anon
WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT BRO
https://a.uguu.se/wBJNrbdbazZs_never_give_up.webm

>>14179080
I bake every 2-3 weeks, and whenever I revive my starter after keeping it in the fridge, it results in about 450g of discard, because I never use the starter on the day I revive it. If I'm feeling frisky and I'm baking two days in a row, I'll also add the discard from the first loaf to my discard bowl. That results in enough discard for several days of pancakes/waffles.
The biggest problem is resisting the urge to have waffles every day.

>>14179133
well do they taste it that good? do you add an extra egg or something?
I imagined only feeding between weeks is more reasonable, even then a 200g discard seems excessive, but I still am not sure of how exactly to calculate how much starter to use, how much it counts for flour water

>>14179481
120 g discard
120 g flour
240 g buttermilk
1 tbsp white sugar
Mix and let rest at room temperature for 8-12 hours.
Beat 2 tbsp of a neutral oil or melted butter with 1 egg until homogeneous, then mix this into the batter, along with 1/2 tsp of kosher salt and 1/2 tsp of baking soda. Cook in waffle maker for waffles or on a griddle for pancakes.

>>14179022
>You're combining multiple people's methods, which may not play well together
I started from a single ciabatta recipe, and it's worked (for me) in a dutch oven, and on a inverted cookie sheet.
Now nothing works, and I've been coming here for months, asking for advice, so I'm trying the advice different people have given me.
Some of that advice is the opposite if what you're telling me here. Depending on temperature, humidity, even what kind of bowl I'm using during the rise, I have to pay attention to what the dough is doing each time I bake, so that I don't under-proof or over-proof the dough.
>And make sure to record your weights, temperatures, etc. so you can replicate what you did if you get it right.
I do. I'm using a oven thermometer, a digital meat thermometer for the proofing water and a digital scale for measuring everything, including the water.
But that's kind of my point. I _have_ reproduced what worked before, and couldn't get the same results.
Very frustrating.
I use the oven for stuff besides bread, and I'm starting to wonder if I've got the oven rack at the same height as when I was succeeding.

>>14179047
>>Can't proof at less than 30 degrees
>Guess Europeans have never ate bread
I'm not saying dough doesn't proof at room temp, I'm saying it doesn't proof at room temp in _my_ kitchen. Not dry active yeast, not sourdough.
I suspect it's the water? maybe?
I'm not at high altitude.
I have the A/C on, so low humidity?
I don't know _why_ it's like this, I just know it _is_.

>>14179095
Thanks, man!

Test

First loaf.

Diagnosis? Seems a little flat and devoid of an airy crumb.

>>14180055
Also probably crushed it a little bit with my dull ass chefs knife. Bread knife on its way.

But it still looked pretty flat precut.

>>14180062
It does look flat, but the scoring did open up a little, so there must have been some rise.

>>14180055
What’s your recipe? Could be overproofing and/or lack of gluten development.

>>14180757
breadside

that's it anons, my starter is finally alive and well, how do I do it now? I want to go with about 500g base loaf,
do I just keep feeding day after day until I get enough about ~100g to use?

>>14180055
looks nice desu, crust seems crispy af, the crumb is dense but looks almost like a cake consistency
did it stick to paper?

>>14180757
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_bloomer_84636

>>14180821
Did not stick to paper

>>14180816
Not my bread

Thanks for the feedback bros

>>14181035
Try autolysing the bread. Before you do anything else, mix just the flour and water and leave for an hour or so. Then make the dough, you should find the kneading is much easier and faster. Is the dough window-paning?

Test

>>14161677
I never thought I'd find anyone worse than binging with reddit but lo and behold

>>14181064
I'll have to test next time. I did not check. I'm leaning towards overproof or underkneading at this point. I'll have to try hydrating the flour too.

>>14177554
>25 minutes total
that seems very low, especially since you have to open the oven door and move your loaf. i'd leave the rack in the middle unless you're afraid the loaf will hit the ceiling of your oven.

Made some cheese rolls, pretty happy with them

Now this looks dang fine, I finally got a decent starter culture, it doubled in size, several bubbles, dang sweet smell, was almost deflating at the time of posting
so how does this works if I'm using 100g starter in the recipe, I calculate 50g flour 50g water for what the main dough should be?
also, should it be mixed before or after autolyse?

>>14181894
Add the starter after the autolyse. The whole point of autolyse is to let the flour hydrate and start breaking down so that the yeast has an easier time eating the starches when you add it in later.

Convince me the best way to autolyse isn't doing it after feeding the starter for the last time before the bake. You're just waiting for the starter to peak so might as well have the autolyse underway instead of hurriedly doing it after the starter has peaked.

>>14181948
I thought this was how everyone did it. You want to have your autolyse and levain ready at the same time.

>>14181948
isn't that kind of redundant, since you're feeding whatever you dough is anyway?
the last feeding of the starter before bake is going to be just getting it up to quantity to use (and reserve some)

>>14181948
Depends on how long. I feed my levain 8 hours before use, and autolysing for that long is completely unnecessary. I usually autolyse for 30-60 minutes.

Just made the best pizza I've had or ever made

Here is the crumb
Also I am wheat man
>>14175820
>>14175768
I used half wheat in this pizza

>>14182305
Pan pizza?

>>14155173
>wild yeast dough
What is it with YouTubers discovering things that have been known for thousands of years? Just as cringe as the fags shocked you can put seeds in the ground and a plant will grow out of them.

>>14182474
Pandering to the average intelligence level of their viewers.

>>14163391
Unless you inherit Le Creuset, skip Le Creuset

Sourdough in any proper dutch oven should work out with parchment paper under it NOT WAX

>>14182305
that is not pizza you fucking burger

>/>14182591
Yes it's pizza get your eyes checked
>>14182393
No, it just rose quite high. It tasted quite good, my best pizza yet.

https://blog.thermoworks.com/bread/sourdough-bread-times-and-temperatures/
saving link for reference, I think this site has a best, most informative recipe about sourdough I've seen

I've thinking, if lacking a proper cast iron thingy, would a stainless steel pan still work? it doesn't have any plastic bits or handles
I also though about getting a somewhat deep pan, and put it upside down on the loaf, as if to trap steam, and another pan with water below
has anyone done work around like that?

>>14182803
You've basically described a combo cooker, which many people use as an alternative to a dutch oven.
https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Cooker-Pre-seasoned-Skillet-Convertible/dp/B0009JKG9M/

>>14182980
well I didn't describe that, in both cases in which imagining I wouldn't be using cast iron,
and the thing to cover on top would be more of a tray
well, english is not the best to describe these things

>>14182803
>Link doesn't show the crumb
Everything disregarded.

Seriously though I skimmed through it and I've been doing exactly everything it says so it's nice to know from an additional source that I've been going at it from a consensus standpoint.

>>14167161
those 2 loaves were eaten with goulash, they weren't meant for spreading stuff onto

>>14168064
city water often has a lot of chlorine in it, enough to burn plants if you water them with it, and it can impair your natural yeast from thriving. Also, not the best thing for you to drink.
To see if your water has a lot of chlorine just let it sit out in an open top container for a day. You should notice bubbles forming on the container. This is chlorine dissolving out. Let all water sit out for a day to de-chlorinate before cooking, drinking, or watering plants with it.

>>14184115
yeah but goes the extra mile to and try to explain better the concepts behind it, when you know what you're doing you have less chance of mistakes while adjusting for your reality, stuff like what autolyse and levain is, and what step purpose is, even the thing about difference of temperatures and how adjust to it

>>14184473
>To see if your water has a lot of chlorine just let it sit out in an open top container for a day. You should notice bubbles forming on the container. This is chlorine dissolving out. Let all water sit out for a day to de-chlorinate before cooking, drinking, or watering plants with it.
interesting, this another thing I was wondering with, I'll try this method and observe, even though we all drink the tap water here, and water the plants with it just fine

holy crapposes
this thing just doubled in size in about 2 hours only it seems to still have some ways to go

>>14155173
luv bread
simple as

>>14184473
Unfortunately, I think they use chloramine rather than chlorine here.
Reason being chloramine doesn't evaporate out as easily.
That way backyard garden hose puddles, birdbaths etc can't be used to breed mosquitoes.
Gonna get some bottled water, turns out to be cheeper than I thought.

well anon, are you going to eat my butt bread?

alright, gonna try a bread today, starter was going nicely, hopes high
just after autolyse on the left (shit just remembered I forgot the salt)
on the right was the cast iron thingy I though about using, turns out that SS pan that the dough is in fits perfect on the cast iron, the only problem would be its wooden handle, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to leave in the hot oven for a long time

>>14185625
That's one way to inoculate your starter.

>>14185642
You WILL ruin your wooden handle in an oven.

>>14175399
I don't have any discard. I just take it out and feed it before bed any time I want to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj6YpNCUYYQ

>>14185661
sad, the top fit perfectly on that ridge
guess I'll to try the workaround way, though I heard a good tip to soak some rolled cloths on the steam tray, this would would do nice to hold up more water and humidity

>>14185722
Don't forget to clog the vents. I've had a shit ton of steam initially from rolled up cloth in a tray, a tray with water and a cast iron pan that instantly vaporized boiling water poured onto it before quickly closing the door and it still hardly did much after 5 minutes due to the ventilation being so good. I've jammed the top vent but I'm also considering to do something about the areas around the oven door as well as I see and feel hot air leaking out there.

What's this oven inside and oven preheated to 500 freedoms shit? I've always just baked on a sheet pan at 350. Am I doing it wrong?

>>14185733
at least my one has a good seal on the front, but I'm not sure about clogging vents, feels like a safety hazard, besides, you're supposed to drench the tray with water and let it slowly steam as you carry through the bake
also, this week we had to change thing for the piped gas, turned out my previous thing was only half way open, things are literally cooking much faster now

I don't get it, currently at the bulk ferment stage, with some folds in between, the dough is still super sticky despite going for a lower hydration (65%)
besides it being hard to handle, I'm trying to avoid wet hands to add in more hydration,
I'm afraid it will turn as another experiment where parchment paper gets out as a second skin to the bread

>>14185860
Did you extensively fold, slap-and-fold or other kneading method right after mixing in salt and levain? It needs that initial strength before going onto the periodic folding stage.

>>14185876
no, I left into autolyse for a while before doing some slap and folds, but not extensively, fuck isn't this supposed to be no knead bread?

>>14185894
I have no confidence in doughs going from super sloppy into only folds. I might be doing too high % or using subpar flour but every bread I've made with only periodic folding have been weak pieces of shit. Even after 6 foldings spaced 15 and 30 min. I've read the same no-knead recipes claiming this is possible but every time I just spend ~3-5 min folding the dough roughly during the mixing or otherwise stretching and working the gluten it comes out much better.

>>14185734
500 is for like thin pizzas

if you put bread in there it'd be burned hard and black

>>14185907
yeah, but fuck I though making lower hydration (even though is not that low) would make it easier, it kind feels much more sticky than any commercial yeast kinda dough I've made before
anyway, I think I got the slap and fold technique better, I'm doing intermittent slap and folds as they do in baguettes, I don't think its only for gluten development but also helps with flavor and growth
gonna do a longer session now and see how it turns, but the problem is that even if it ends up relatively nice, in the end it will stick strongly to my hand or to the pan I'm holding it in

>>14185936
I know you're afraid of adding extra hydration, but wetting your hand is essential to handling the dough. It doesn't take a lot of water, and you can shake off most of the excess without having the dough stick.

>>14185956
ok had an additional long session of kneading
it looks good right? but its still sticky AF,
that thumb print right there was just because it got stuck on my hand, but I was still lucky to put it back without too much hassle,
the handling itself is the problem, is that later on its a nightmare to take off of the pan, if still sticking like it was now, the problem is getting it out for shaping without messing the whole thing
so I guess intermittent folding is out of the question too, just wait for bulk and hope for the best?

>>14186015
When you take the dough out, first sprinkle some flour around the perimeter where the dough meets the bowl. Then, using floured hands, work your way around the bowl and separate the dough from the sides of the bowl, making sure to get some flour in there and reflouring your hands as necessary. If you can get your hand all the way under to the apex of the bowl while doing this, great, otherwise you can flip the bowl over and let the dough ball fall out onto your floured surface.

>cover my entire bread tin in oil
>dough goes in
>sticks to all the sides
i tried so hard

>>14186065
thank I'll try
also, these goddamn little bits that get stuck and dry on you hand/finger hairs,
this is like torture

>>14186084
I treat them like a snack. Snacks with hand hairs in them.

>>14186073
Getting shit to not stick for more than 10 seconds if a fucking meme unless sub 60% hydration. Wetting hands and shaking off most moisture is best early on while shaping etc you try to flour your hands. You can dip your fingers in the flour as often as you want, just don't pick up a pile and puts tons of it all over so the dough sucks it all up and gets drier.

>>14186167
>>14186073
Wait, you said bread tin, somehow read "bowl" my mistake. Put some waxed paper in instead. Let it go up the sides too.

oh wow this thing grew a heck of a lot, time for shaping, suggestions?
I want to do a longer loaf but I'm afraid of fucking the shaping, doing a bowl kinda thing is much more secure, also I'm afraid I have to leave it for morning, so an overnight fridge proofing
help getting this out of the container with fucking it up?

>>14186567
See >>14186065
Flour your workbench, then get it loosened around the edges and see if you can get the bottom loosened as well. Then flip it upside down and help the dough out.

>>14186587
alright, it was holding pretty well but its own collapsed and bottom came off more or less like this >>14130195
the other side was already floured, but somehow I fucked the shaping and ended up with a loaf, its far from perfect but maybe it can workout, maybe 8~10h proof now, in the fridge, or should I leave in the kitchen? (considering its a 20°C and colder around here)

>>14186663
Hmm, maybe you should've tilted the bowl on its side. If you're going to proof overnight, proof in the fridge, then transfer it straight into the oven when everything is ready.

>>14186687
yeah at least its still salvageable, but doesn't you need to let it come to room temperature before going into the oven?
I was thinking to leave in the counter because after all the recommended would be 10~14h in the fridge, and I'm only aiming for 8h so it seemed short, so I thought maybe take off of the fridge before going to sleep so in turn it stays colder throughout the night, but over the risk of failure, I guess underproofing is better than going over
and also, I think a round would work better for the bulk ferment right, something easier to take out and that is somewhat more appropriately shaped, I have one but is much smaller would literally be fully filled with that dough, but maybe easier to take out that way

Why the fuck does every bread recipe blog post have the same garbage layout where they put a bunch of meaningless shit in and the actual recipe at the bottom of the fucking page?
Anyway, anyone got a recipe for a sourdough sandwich bread? Im a bit tired of the usual crusty sourdough loaf.

this is it brahs, a fucking mazing
even with sloppy shaping it turned out a great loaf, it seems bullshit but this is by far one of the best breads crumbs I've ever tasted
I had to left about 60 min in the oven and was afraid of crust getting undercooked, because there was too much water in the steam tray and the oven maxed out at about 135°C
however I took a measure of how hot it was inside the loaf, 96°C so a great sign

rolling some cloth on the steam tray would probably get better results as well, but all I hand in hand smelled like chemical cleaning products, so probably bad idea, another would thing would to just remove the tray and let it bake some more, but access to it was bad (at the very bottom) and splashing water around would dangerous

because of the longer bake time I was pretty afraid of turning out with some really hard crust, and it was at first, but after cooling it turned out really thin and crunchy, the crumb is incredibly fluff and soft, I literally ate this whole bit without even noticing it

>>14162369
Bump

>>14188388
https://truesourdough.com/4-signs-your-sourdough-has-finished-proofing/
I was looking this for my case
I think the thumb and feel are the best indications, if you can't afford to inspect at regular intervals I think most safe option is the fridge indeed, where you know it will be a slow and subtle

also some link I've used, we really should get a permanent bin going

>on sourdough hydration and how to calculate
https://truesourdough.com/sourdough-hydration-explained-what-why-how-when/
>just a buildin calculator, nothing fancy
https://www.sourdough.co.uk/sourdough-hydration-calculator/
>on keeping steam and working around home oven for a proper bake
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/baking-with-steam-in-your-home-oven/
>just basic sourdough bread process but going with a little bit more depth
https://blog.thermoworks.com/bread/sourdough-bread-times-and-temperatures/

Is it a bad idea to use milk in a sourdough recipe that will go through long (cold) fermentation?

>>14188550
at the worst case you end up with some yogurt, but what specifically do you want to do?

>>14188667
I just wanted to try a regular sourdough loaf but with half the liquid as milk to try to get a softer crumb.

>>14188364
Next time, bake it to a darker color. It tastes a lot better that way.

>>14188948
I mentioned in the post, because the water tray it wouldn't get any hotter, I let it go for about an hour if not more, the crust is still top tier,
next time I should be putting a towel on the water tray, in a way that its a least easier to take out

>>14188673
I really don't think that would result in soft, as you can get pretty fucking soft with plain bread already, but a different crumb density
is that a bread that uses that kind of recipe already?
but as I said it shouldn't be any danger, if anything you would get a bit of yogurt tang because of the lactobacillus in your culture

>>14186147

>>14189285
Yeah, if you've got a roasting pan or something with handles on it, that would be a better water tray.

>>14189311
the problem is that the roasting pan that's deep was being used for the bread, the one I used for water is just a inch deep, so if I tried to reach for it would surely splash scalding water around, which isn't a good a idea
I was also thinking of ways to improvise, like using a pan upside down, is baking the dough directly on the grate (or the grate that goes into the roasting pan) a bad idea?

>>14189367
Baking it on the grate is a bad idea. If you have a pizza stone, that might work.

Is there any difference between coil folding and normal folding?

Just pulled a couple loaves out of the oven, using king arthur flour's country french bread recipe. second time doing it.