/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>13537433
Americans
/thread

>>13537433
the fact that people who drink wine a lot don't know the difference between $15 bottles and $5000 bottles does say a lot about people who are into wine

but also, what are you talking about? This sounds very specific

>>13537444
behold, the tribbs of truth!

>>13537433
>I've been drinking wine nearly every day for 25 years
OP is a fag.

>>13537433
>Have you ever gone into a restaurant and been ambushed by hidden cameras and uploaded to youtube?
No because I'd start swinging if they did. Also, people can concealed carry in bars here so ambushing drunk people for any reason at all would be a really stupid idea.

>>13537448
Are you often being asked to guess the price of a wine? What are the consequences to you if you guess incorrectly? Would you be ostracized?

>>13537596
I mean if I considered myself a wine person I would hope to be able to have a pretty good idea of roughly how valuable a wine is by its taste just for my own sense of self worth and not feeling like a complete fraud personally

>>13537596
I would say everything tastes like shit to make myself seem superior.

>>13537609
Once you open a bottle the wine is basically worthless. Extraordinarily rare bottles might have some value on ebay but maybe 1/10th of a % of the actual value had you just left it alone. Also if it's in the hands of some schmuck the value drops too. Collectors don't want to risk a wine that might have been stored in the back of someone's station wagon in the hot sun.

>>13537640
um, ok

>>13537433
Wine tasting is indeed bullshit, but so is this article.
>dyed white wine test
Undergrad oenology students, not experts. Of course they're dumb fucks.
>red wine and fish
The science referenced supports the tradition.
>vintage and weather
What else would it be? It's the same vineyards and the same production techniques. The weather is the only thing that changes, so it's hardly surprising that weather predicts score.

Every wine drinker knows you can't judge most wines based on price. It's people that don't know anything about wine that love to talk put of their ass.

>>13538024
Then why does anybody ever pay more than they need to for a good wine?

>>13538028
There are few wines I personally wouldn't mind spending more on as a splurge because it's just that good but some people just really like to feel like a big shot. Most wine drinkers drink 9.99-14.99$ wines regularly. You can get some excellent wines at that price and be perfectly satisfied.

>>13538028
Why do you believe this is a uniquely wine related issue?

literally nobody has ever claimed that wine tasting is science

>they didn't become a water sommelier, 300k starting

>>13537433
>Chateau L'Ordure Pomerol
KEK

>>13537433
Few people actually care but wine snobs - like postmodernists - are so obnoxious it's fun just to push them down in the mud.

>>13537444
Rent free.

>>13539101
Because restaurants make ridiculous amounts of money on wine, so the shit gets talked up to high heavens by the culinary world. No other drink has that kind of propaganda machine to back it up.

>>13539984
Restaurant markup on high end wine is a lot lower than the markup on cheap booze. They keep the rare bottles around because having a lot of options on the menu is an inexpensive way to make the customer feel they're getting a good deal. In the real world and not movies, most people go for the second-cheapest item on the list.

>>13539975
>postmodernists
Ok Ben Shapiro. $10 says you can't even tell me what you think you mean by that, and no posting google search results doesn't count.

>>13539999
Postmodernism is the school of thought that posits that a subject has no inherent value or meaning save what is assigned to it subjectively by the audience. Of course the hypocrisy of this is most postmodernists have 'canon' interpretations of a given work of art (film, music, literature) anyway. It's glorified solipsism intended to divorce the artist from their work so a parasitic academic can gatekeep meaning, or else it's used to assign artistic value to literal garbage for the purpose of embezzling money.

>>13540031
Leftists DESTROYED

>>13540067
>No! NOOOOOOOOOO! MY PROFESSOR SAID-!

>>13539995
Markup is irrelevant, profits are. They make their money on wine, so they talk up wine.

>>13540122
$500 bottle sold for $1000 once a month
$15 bottle sold at $45 thirty times a day

Pop quiz: which one is more profitable? Bonus points: no calculator allowed

>>13540122
You sound like someone who knows nothing about how restaurants make money.

>>13540159
>profitable
>not including costs

>>13540192
inb4 I was only pretending to be stupid

>>13540031
No. Post modernism is just that we're as seperate from the modern paraxis of life as modernists were seperate from the romantic's paraxis of life. You tried, you get points for effort, but this statement is the easiest definition:
>You know the components of Frankenstein by watching The Simpsons and wikipedia, but have never read it yourself, even though you speak about it as if you had.

>>13537591
>is totally fine with being videotaped everywhere he goes when outside
>claims he would "start swinging" if anyone ever secretly video taped him

>>13540229
wrong

>>13540229
>cant even spell praxis
The previous definition was just as valid as yours, if not more so as it also can encapsulate your pseudo-intellectual twaddle-wank.

>>13540292
>>13540299
Go on, post some proofs my dudes. Really you're arguing about something that ended in 1960ish and started as early as the 40's. Y'all just listen to Jordan Peterson and pretend to be smart. Subjectivism has the bare minimum to do with postmodernity; it's about intersubjectivity and the communication of shared experiences in terms of power dynamics. It isn't the refutation of meaning, it's about meaning being complex, layered and intrinsic to all experiences, but disjointed between how you experience it, how your neighbour experiences it, and objective reality. It's simultaneous layers of procedural meaning making where you can't easily point to the direction of power within the discussion, or which symbols contribute the most to meaning making. Academic gatekeeping is a symptom, but really, it's about keeping the artist and the audience as equals in the process. The problem is derps misappropriated the term to apply to literally anything because, in theory, it can be when in reality it's just part of describing something being created when you're too close to the process to see the results

>>13537433
Butter is another thing people claim to notice difference in. And, of course, they can't.

>>13540406
>can't tell the difference between salted and unsalted
Lay off the hot sauce, neckbeard

>>13540299
Idk anon I'm more likely to listen to the guy posting Francis Bacon than the guy using words like parasitic and embezzling.

>>13540412
kek

>>13540355
Look at me using fancy word

>>13540355
At first I was going to criticise >>13542355, but he's right, it reads like a sociology PhD generator where it throws in so much jargon the result is incomprehensible.

>>13537983
this. It makes sense weather would predict score, if anything it shows the man is tasting correctly

>>13542450
>At first I was going to criticise >>13542355, but he's right, it reads like a sociology PhD generator where it throws in so much jargon the result is incomprehensible.
Congrats on outing yourself as a sub 100 IQ pleb lol.

Wine tasting is such pretentious shit. I had an ex who considered herself a wine connoisseur and I fucking guarantee you it was to try to seem high class and had no fucking idea the difference between a cheap and expensive wine.

She would be this way with clothes and shoes, too. Spend more money than she had for appearances. My parents owned a shoe factory that I worked at a lot growing up and I know how to spot a cheap shoe. She refused to accept when I told her the shoes were shit quality "no they were really expensive".
It's all just memes, lads. All of it.

>>13542484
>My parents owned a shoe factory that I worked at a lot growing up
are you robin williams from Jumani?

why did you fake your death robin

>>13537433
>go to a restaurant
>wines priced over $100 per cup
>taste just about the same as a $10 bottle
It's not so much about being asked to rate shit and more to do with artificial inflation of prices based on bullshit metrics. Your pic implies you get that, but your post makes it sound like you're a dumbass faggot.

>>13542477
Don't you have some ratioing and browbeating to do on Twitter, to control the discourse so that 'academics' like yourself have control over the cultural narrative?

>>13537444
>B-but based yuro wines! It's not because of preconceived bias!
>A-AMERICANS A SHIT!!!
So predictable.

>>13542529
>>wines priced over $100 per cup
Ask me how I know you've never eaten anywhere nicer than Applebees

>>13542484
Oh let me guess you're one of those USA USA #workwear memseters who thinks that anything other than ugly steel toe shit-kickers with dainite commando soles and clunky ass goodyear welting is shit quality

>>13537433
I've never been hidden-camera'd about wine or beer, but I've been asked about them... I make both. My beer is pretty good, my wine is passable in a mid-price night out in Thailand kind of way (the more you drink, the better it is).

I tried a $200 bottle of wine once, just to see. I don't know if I liked it any better than a $25-$50, but it was nicely oaked. Probably a textbook Burgundy Pinot Noir.

If you can grab a 1-2 year, 3-5, and a 7-12 year old bottle of the same wine from the same vinyard, you'll usually find diminishing returns in price, but the oldest wine will usually be smoother - less tannic, slightly sweeter, a bit more fruit-leather than fruit, especially if there's a tiny bit of oxidization. Too much, and you'll start tasting cardboard. I'll usually pick up three bottles of Chianti (as well as some preparation of liver - usually a paté - and fava beans somewhere) when the woman-creature wants to invite her friends over. The middle one is always empty first.

>>13542529
>per cup
Outta here flyover.

>>13542484
Just because your ex was a moron doesn't invalidate wine tasting.

I get all my wine advice from Bernard Black.

>>13537591
I know what you mean, I was at a baseball game with my gf and we got put on the Kiss-cam so I instinctively pulled out my handgun and started firing at where I thought the camera was

>>13539995
>most people go for the second-cheapest item on the list
Which is always the one with the highest markup. Go for the cheapest, which is usually just as good.

>>13542918
If all you care about is markup you should get the most expensive bottle on the list.

>>13539984
>>13539995
>>13540122
>>13542918
>>13543037
Honestly wine markup at restaurants is so ridiculous that I only ever get a wine pairing, not bottles. May as well just buy nice bottles for drinking with what I cook at home.

>>13537433
For me it's the huge jug of Carlo Rossi table wine.

>>13537640
>Collectors don't want to risk a wine that might have been stored in the back of someone's station wagon in the hot sun.
Why, if they're not going to drink it anyway?

>>13542669
seething

>>13543949
Because they'd prefer to buy it from someone who didn't bake it in their trunk

>>13542484
>women
>knowing shit
Appx. 2% of sommeliers are women.

>>13542767
>wine where you can taste the oak

>>13542529
>cup
I would be happy to share good wine with you if you knew shit past dick about it.

>>13545596
>knew X past Y about it
Not american and never heard this expression before. Do americans really say this?

>>13545902
I think it's a regionalism, like calling it "Tobasco" instead of "Tabasco" sauce

>>13542669
I'm Dutch and pretty much, yes. I dont have a problem with fashionable shoes, but to pay $400 for shit quality because it looks pretty seems to be a pretty good metaphor for wine fags

>>13542778
It was an example. You're all morons.

>>13543188
Most places will let you bring your own bottle

>>13546307
If you think all wine drinkers can be conflated with your dimwitted whore of an ex, you, personally, are a moron.

>>13537433
>the taste of weather
>a wine taster could taste a wine good
>weather patterns also indicates what wine could be good
>a good grape produces a good wine
>???
So the "world's leading wine critic" can accurately taste a good vintage (from a good grape [produced during a good rain year]) but wine tasting is bullshit?

>>13546440
Ironically, this phenomenon is called sour grapes.

>>13546291
>to pay $400 for shit quality
$400 is pretty much still within goodyear meme shoes price range. You might find some glued and you might find some blake or blake rapid. Certainly a bit of veldtschoen if you're a dutch. $400 is not a high end shoe. High end shoes are often flimsier and use blake or blake rapid because it looks better and is more comfortable. Even though it won't survive as long in a blue collar lifestyle. Because people who can afford good shoes don't work with their hands.

To bring this back to wine, your idea of "good shoes" is like a pleb's idea of "good wine". Oak, lots of it. Lots of juicy overripe fruit. Lots of residual sugar, unnaturally deep purple color. Kick you in the face, "make a statement" kind of wine. The stuff that really holds its own with a big ass steak. The ultimate pleb meal. You'd probably hate good wine. Tastes too thin, too "weird". It wants you to come to its level, it certainly won't meet you on yours.

In short your definition of "good stuff" is fine, nothing wrong with it, you're a product of your upbringing is all. Your blue collar, works-with-your-hands, strong and tough and big and bold. Goodyear (or in your case veldtschoen) and that's good enough for you. Anything nicer is beyond your frame of reference and therefore bad.

>>13539912
Just when I thought the bullshit couldn't get any thicker, you go and show me this bitch.

>>13546314
Yeah but they charge a corkage fee and if the bottle you brought is much less than $50 retail you might as well just pay the markup.

>>13545594
The Naked Grape sells for about $12/bottle. It might be more your speed.

>>13539999
checked and retarded

>>13543949
Because they don't want to spent high end vintage wine money on a bottle of vinegar, and as such knowledge of improper storage can rapidly devalue a bottle of wine.

>>13548777
Nah, unlike you I don't drink critter wine. You shouldn't be able to open a bottle and smell the oak. That's a sign of a bad wine. Oak chips are used to cover up wine faults in those cheap wines you describe. Stop trying to sound fancy. "Usually a paté". Cringe.

>>13546501
If it's just about comfort and functionality they'd be better off wearing New Balance.

No matter how expensive you make traditional shoes, the tradition isn't going to produce good function and comfort by modern standards.

>>13549935
Very telling that you picked two out of three
>good looks
>comfort
>cost
Enjoy your steel toed work boots and payday bar brawls, popeye

>>13542484
Did you also get sucked into a board game in the 70s and two kids freed you from the board game in the 90s?

>>13549628
>You shouldn't be able to open a bottle and smell the oak
Retard detected.

>>13537433
>Yet from the way people talk online this seems to be a very pressing concern for a lot of people.
Insecure people always seek out acceptance from others. One way of doing that is picking a product which other people have rated highly.

People who aren't insecure don't give a shit. They eat/drink what they like and couldn't care less what someone else thinks about their choices.

This applies to nearly every product, not just wine. People obsess about whatever celeb or tweetybook influencer is wearing the same clothes they are, they obsess about technical specs for cars, they obsess about benchmarks for video cards.

>>13549935
Traditional shoes which are made to measurements of your feet are FAR more comfortable than modern "pick the closest size off the rack".

>>13549967
Pleb detected

>>13549986
Video cards aren't a great analogy because your experience of how good the video card is can be measured in one axis: "frames per second". Whereas wine has too many axes from the obvious (alcohol, sugar levels, acidity) to the more sciency-sounding stuff like polyphenols and flavenoids that also affect the taste. Just like with comparing a bag of doritos to a high end tasting menu at a 3 star restaurant, the high end stuff isn't necessarily attractive to plebs, and the low end stuff isn't necessarily attractive to sophisticates, and not because of any single metric, but the whole package.

Anyone who says "oh but sweet wines! sweet wines are for plebs and dry wines are for fancy lads!" is a confirmed pleb.

>>13542543
Americans cant make beer
Americans cant make wine
dont think i havent tried them, they just suck

>>13550020
>because your experience of how good the video card is can be measured in one axis: "frames per second".
You would think so, but that's not the case for many people. For some people (whther they realize it or not) the point of a new video card is bragging rights and/or the fun of the modding process.
Same with wine. Some people buy wine A because they like wine A. Some people buy wine A becuse the review magazine said it was good wine, or because they like the art on the bottle.

>Anyone who says "oh but sweet wines! sweet wines are for plebs and dry wines are for fancy lads!" is a confirmed pleb.
Yep. I see the same shit nearly everything though, which was the point of my post:
>AMD is for losers, real gamers use Intel
>Ford sucks, you want a good car get a Chevy
>My sports team vs. your sports team

>>13550036
Usually at this point we get "but America beats French wine in muh judgment of Paris which objectively proves America #1" followed by "how can anyone say they enjoy wine when Penn & Teller proved all wines taste the same which objectively proves USA #1"