/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Was there ever such a thing?

>>13428674
>>13428710
Unfortunately Europeans lie about being open-minded and knowledgeable. That's why you're going to see a lot of people here whining about there not being American food rather than talking about shrimp and grits, pork and beans, red beans and rice, collard greens, pralines, salted watermelon, cornbread, BBQ, lemonade with sherbert, etc.

>>13428674
We are net importers because we eat so much.

>>13428674
But people in countries outside the U.S. can't make good American cuisine--New York style pizza, burgers, BBQ, Southern cuisine, Tex Mex

How I know this image is fake. Who the hell eats Egyptian cuisine outside of Egypt? And what the fuck is Egyptian cuisine?

>>13428674
>poomerican cuisine

>>13428729
I'm American and to be fair I don't think most anyone thinks of any of that as "American cuisine." In reality the closest thing to "American cuisine" is shit like pic related as far as other countries are concerned. And even inside the US I doubt most of us could ramble off all the foods you listed there if asked on the spot to describe "American cuisine." Instead what you'd receive as answers would probably be "Uh... apple pie? Hamburgers?"
Not a matter of dishonesty like you're making it out to be. It takes more than foods existing for a coherent cuisine to take hold. It needs some degree of recognition / exposure, which the concept of "American cuisine" as you're thinking of it doesn't really have.
Part of the evidence for why this is the case in case you're still skeptical is exactly the sort of articles like what's cited in the OP of this thread. In practice "American cuisine" just doesn't really exist in the same way other well established national cuisines do. Doesn't have the coherence, consistency, or recognition to. Certainly there exist dishes in the US which are well made and would not be bad as part of some hypothetical national cuisine that got more attention and adoption outside of where they're served mostly today, but the merits of foods existing in the US is a distinct thing from the question of "American cuisine" as a legitimate phenomenon.

>>13428745
Spics absolutely dab on amerishit BBQ.
Try Brazilian or Argentinian grill sometimes, Billy-Bob

>>13428674
what the fuck do chinese people eat if not chinese food?

>>13428770
https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/LTST/TradeFlow/Import/Partner/by-country/Product/16-24_FoodProd
They import a lot of wheat for one thing. In terms of which countries they import the most from, France is #1.

>>13428751
bear in mind it says "net exporters"

it could be that they eat nothing but egyptian cuisine, and some other countries also eat some egyptain cuisine, and so they're technically net exporters.

>>13428674
americans have 6 to 7 meals a day, but other countries are poor, so they only have 0, 1 or 2 meals. this means that there's a lot of opportunities for americans to import other cuisines, but limited opportunities for people to import american cuisine.

>>13428776
so they're just sitting there munching on raw wheat all day are they? sounds legit! he asked what KIND of food dipshit, not which ingredients

>>13428919
its probably like spaghetti and macaroni

>>13428757
Grilling =/= bbq. And we have a Brazilian steakhouse in my city, ironically just up main street from Billy Bob's. It's good but completely different than American bbq.

>>13428753
American cuisine is any food Americanized or created here.
Chinese food? American.
Pizza? American
Country home style? American
Tex mex? American
A lot of retards think it's a part of non American cultures first. It's not.

>>13428729
That's all southern food, anon. America is too big to have a single cuisine

>>13428919
Wheat is what they're importing a lot of, not already made meals you idiot.

>>13428674
WTF does this even mean?

>>13428674
that graph dont look real

you're telling me with all the chinese restaurants in the whole world it has less export than mexico, turkey, egypt and greece??

who has even ate venezuela food? but you can buy general tsos chicken and brocoli beef everywhere in the world

>>13428978
>Grilling =/= bbq. And we have a Brazilian steakhouse in my city, ironically just up main street from Billy Bob's. It's good but completely different than American bbq.
Better*

Does this refer to the actual shipping of food or just how many restaurants of that country's theme are in other countries?
If the former American food is almost entirely meat so I wouldn't trust it being shipped. If the latter there's a McDonald's everywhere so I don't trust this statistic, same with Chinese food.

>>13428674
This is a retarded metric, see >>13428789. But also, American food is very often Americanized versions of other cultures' dishes. This is true for other countries too (Japan often Japanizes Italian, for instance).

>>13428674
>(((The Economist)))

>>13429237
>mexico
Yes you shithead

>>13428674
>American cuisine
Outside of literal fast food that doesn't exist.

>>13429369
nobody fucking eats mexican food outside of mexico and usa

>>13428674
low IQ OP

this is about FOOD export. Aka produce. It has nothing to do with cuisine

>padding numbers with olive oil

pastaniggers at it again

>>13428674
There is no such thing lmao get cucked

>>13428674
>Turkey
Oh look, it's another horseshit graph.

>>13428757
I don't think you've ever had American barbeque and if you did it was some europoor who cooked the meat wrong and just added sauce.

>>13428710
America is fucking gigantic and has states bigger than most countries, of course there's regional foods that are unique to that part of the country.

>>13429333
America is only a couple hundred years old and founded by immigrants. Obviously we have some cultural similarities between certain old world dishes of elsewhere. But we also have plenty of our own original food as well which is why America is leading in a lot of stuff like food sciences and variety of restaurants and eating options. Also there's very food foods that can't grow somewhere in America VS places like Poland or Egypt that are limited in certain crops.

>>13429377
fast food is made for foreigners to get a taste of stuff that's not home cooked american meals from the midwest, southern US, West coast, or New England.

>>13428753
>the merits of foods existing in the US is a distinct thing from the question of "American cuisine" as a legitimate phenomenon.
Your argument presupposes that America lacks an identifiable national cuisine because of the ignorance of people outside said nationality. It's a bit like saying, "I've never heard of it, so it doesn't exist." Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, national cuisines can only be defined as how others recognize it. The problem with this thread is that OP's pic doesn't match up with his topic (the graph doesn't even match up to the byline).

>>13428674
I don't understand where these figures come from.
Do you mean literal food exports? Because there are some big exporters at the bottom of that list. Australia in particular probably exports 5x the food they eat.
Is it national restaurant sales split by purported cuisine region? There should be like no data for China. Also do you give stuff like burgers to USA?
I don't get it.

>>13429576
I could write a blog visible from outer space I on the problems with this graph. Expert level clickbait

>>13428745
I'm not sure anyone outside of the US makes New York style pizza. It's all traditional (or traditional sounding) Italian pizza's, regional additions, actual American innovations like Hawaiian, and the lot.
Are you joking about burgers. Not just are there US chains world wide, but every restaurant in the world is able to produce good bread, patties, salad toppings, cheese and burger sauce. Maybe not cheese in Asia.
American BBQ is probably a fair call. I think we can get some here, but it's blown the fuck out expensive unlike other BBQ from other countries (Korea comes to mind).
Mexican related food doesn't really travel to the world because Mexicans pretty much only migrate to USA.

More to the point, even if all that food was ubiquitous all over the world, would you even get credit?

>>13428674
>be well off american
>move to caracas and open american themed diner
>no business cuz everyone turbo poorshits
>restaurant gets looted cuz no food anywhere else
>venezuelans flood up here
>tiny portion of the industrious ones will open up a restaurant
>lol y america suck?:the graph

>>13428674
Its just that nothing other than Burgers are popular outside the US.

>>13428753
IMO it takes a level of cockheadedness to obtain a regional cuisine. You have to sook to the world that everyone else is an impostor and your food needs protection. But the US isn't that cockheaded even when it could (should?) be. Bourbon, for instance, is only partially recognised internationally, even though full recognition would probably benefit the consumer.

On the other hand you have Bolognese twats claiming I shat on their grandmothers grave because I used a fresher tomato than prescribed.

>>13429476
>Your argument presupposes that America lacks an identifiable national cuisine because of the ignorance of people outside said nationality
This is a valid argument. This is how literally every other country is being judged.
>national cuisines can only be defined as how others recognize it
Yes

The thread is about international recognition and enjoyment of food.
I see this sort of nonsense spouted non stop in beer threads. "You're an idiot for saying American beer is worse than Ireland's because Budweiser is worse than Guinness, you have to compare Guinness to our craft beer (you've probably never heard of craft beer, it's an American invention). Come back when you've realised Guinness can't compare to Uncle Sam's Raspberry Rye Milk Porter."
Stop pretending you're hard done by, this is an apples to apples comparison.

>>13428674
We turned our food into products.
Products that are now on the global market.
If you acxount for that America blows this whole graph out of the water.

>>13428674
>excluding fast food,

>>13428674
can you even open a restaurant in italy without some autistic legal bureaucratic nightmare as anything resembling a foreigner? same with japan? meanwhile the us will let any fuckhead with money open any restaurant he wants and probably give them tax incentives and fast track it over natives in certain situations

>>13428757
it's not real barbecue. it's grilled meat and it's overrated. you're just some spic mutt with an inferiority complex

>>13429442
>and founded by immigrants
enough with the lies, kike. the usa wasn't founded by fucking immigrants. there was no usa that they moved to. the usa was created by americans

>>13429237
Retard, china isn't mass producing chicken tenders in sauce and mailing them to other countries

>>13429396
Most "Mexican" food eaten in the US is TexMex, and quite a part of national cuisine. Shit, TexMex overtook the local cuisine in my state in the last few decades. Baja style Mexican stuff was starting to take over at the same time the TexMex stuff, but TexMex overran everything. This entire thread is retarded, though.

>>13429657
>garmugia isn't real Italian food because Americans have never heard of it

>>13428674

American cuisine isn't dying; it's just that the best American food is made in Germany

>>13428674
>American cuisine

What exactly is American cuisine? Hamburgers are German, "hawt dawgs" are just low quality sausages, American "pizza" is just a lower quality version of the Italian original. Those are as Americans as a won ton soup made in Italy is Italian.

Corndogs? Deep-fried butter?

>>13429476
>"I've never heard of it, so it doesn't exist."
That's exactly how this sort of thing works. By analogy if you personally know of a "musical genre" that almost nobody else recognizes, that really means it's not a musical genre.
Things existing *in spite of* a lack of recognition is something that happens with physical phenomena, not cultural phenomena. With cultural phenomena, the awareness is part of what makes them exist to begin with. A mountain can exist without anyone on the planet knowing about it. A fashion trend absolutely cannot exist without anyone knowing about it. It's only an (abstract) object at all in the sense that other people recognize it.

>>13430129
I'm not saying it isn't real, I'm saying it isn't contributing to peoples opinion on Italian vs other food.
And it shouldn't because:
>I'd only be guessing what it tastes like
>Would it really be unheard of outside Italy if it were good / foreigners would enjoy it? Highly unlikely.

Making the jump from "hasn't tried this Italian soup" to "isn't considering Italian soup" is a bit of a stretch. And from there to "can't form an opinion on Italian cuisine" is an even bigger stretch.

You could set the bar higher and say you have to visit a minimum number of high class restaurants in every respective country before raising an opinion. But this is an anonymous image board, so fuck off, you couldn't even trust someone who claimed as much. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that I think less of your nationality because canned minestrone is shit. As is the Tuscan soup prepared by Andrew Chang, local "Italian" chef.

Not American btw.

>>13428674
how come USA can't even feed itself with all that available land?

>>13428729
>pralines

>>13429237
Italy is believable, as the UE tends to use their cheap labor to import all the raw materials there, transform it for cheap then sell it back to the rest of the union for big bucks.
Olive oil is especially profitable because of this these days. Uses Spain and Italy as a local mexico with poverty to abuse for the benefits of the north.

>>13430139
but that's in French (even though prices and brand don't seem to match France)

>>13428674
>once again the US at the bottom in relation to every other country
Somehow this isn't surprising at all.

>>13429729
The USA wasn't founded by immigrants but it was founded by British colonists.

>>13430277
>how come USA can't even feed itself with all that available land?
It can, it just doesn't (at least not more than the amount it feeds itself from imports). Your question's like asking why someone can't feed themselves just because they decide not to cook and go out to eat or get lots of delivery instead. The answer in both cases is it's not a lack of ability, it's a decision of convenience.
Also realistically you're not going to grow any sort of crop that has ever existed on any part of the planet all in one country. If you wanted for some reason to not do many or even any imports and just be an extreme self-sufficient agricultural nation like North Korea has tried to be then that's doable but will come with a lot of limitations on what kinds of food you will be able to eat as a result. And even when it comes to crops you could technically grow in the US you still might not realistically do this on a large scale because it would require too much upheaval to set up in the cases of crops not already grown in large amounts here.

>>13430303
Yes, aka "british immigrants."

>>13428745
Can confirm. When o was in Europe every “American” food was just completely wrong. You could make a small fortune opening a real American pizzeria in Amsterdam.

>>13430417
Colonists and immigrants are two different things.

>>13430417
No, the colony had been established for centuries at that point.

>>13430289

It's from Lidl, which is a German chain.

>>13428757
You retards couldn't grill your way out of a favela

>>13430427
Depends on the subjective viewpoint from your position in the relationship between the established inhabitant vs. the invader. One side views them as invading immigrants, the other side views them as invading colonists. Both are equally correct and equally wrong.

>>13429377
Soul food, retard

>>13428978
Hi fw anon

>>13428674
The more diverse you become, the muddier your culture becomes. Theres no sense of community anymore in a lot of America. Everyone hops on new trends asap and neglects old traditions. Its sad

>>13430664
It's a just a phase. America always returns to traditionalism in the end when progressives push the envelope too far.

Any culturaly relevant US cuisine found outside of tge US comes from louisiana or texas

>>13428978
American bbq is the best food on Earth you uncultured savage.

>>13430684
lol no. Cajun food is cool, but basically unknown outside the US
And Texas? They contribute literally nothing

>>13430681
Please gibs example of this habbening.

>>13430664
old traditions everywhere are almost always dumb

With food its super weird and cultures get locked into being associated with what they make when they came into contact with the UK/US

Remember Europeans had never even seen a tomato or potato until like 400 years ago, and now most of their foods contain one or the other. There is no such thing as unchanging, traditional food

>>13430664
The strength of every aspect of american culture has come from it's diversity. In fact, diversity is the only true american tradition and no amount of natsoc wailing and teeth gnashing will change that or prevent it's continued progression.

>>13430711
The silent majority of the 70s that ended the hippy era.

Burgers never realized they were the flyover of the world.

>>13430277
This isn't talking about actual imports/exports, it's talking about how much money is spend on culturally foreign cuisine.

Kinda meaningless.

>>13428674
So wait, this is just a chart of how willing people are to try food from outside their culture?

>>13430738
Wrong. Diversity in terms of culture has weakened America. People come to America but refuse to be Americans now. In the past immigrants would more or less adopt American values and traditions. These days every immigrant culture wants the benefits of living in America without having to be part of it's culture. Same thing has happened to Britain.

>>13430756
>Wrong. Diversity in terms of culture has weakened America
oh, thats why the US has been the strongest, most important country in the world for generations

America became this way because of capitalism and the diversity it allowed. Anyone who doesn't like capitalism and diversity does not deserve America

>>13428674
What the fuck does "Joel Waldfogel" classify as "Cusine 'net exports'"? Any food related export? Or only iconic exports?
Why is there no gross export for comparison?
Shitty fucking context.

>>13430740
No, food wise

>>13430759
>America became this way because of capitalism and the diversity it allowed.
Bullshit. America became this way because we came together and united the states as one to use force to secure that we were now our own people. We killed and went to war to claim this land as our own.
And after a hundred plus years when the port cities took in mass amounts of italian, irish, and chinese immigrants those areas became known as melting pots, where their cultures adapted to the American culture. It wasn't known as the fucking heterogeneous pot of diversity, you moron.

>>13430781
>We killed and went to war to claim this land as our own.
Colonial era America was a very very different place. America didn't really become a power for another 100-150 years

You are only speaking of the origins of America, not how America became what it is today

>>13430781
>of italian, irish, and chinese immigrants those areas became known as melting pots, where their cultures adapted to the American culture
Thats literally what I am talking about. Part of why America was so successful was its relative tolerance and ability to take in disparate peoples

Compared to basically everywhere else in the world the US has always been one of the most tolerant places of various cultures and religions. This tolerance allows people to live in close proximity to people with different traditions and beliefs than them and then their children realize how bullshit most tradition and religion is and create a better society with less of the bickering and violence over trivial religious and ethnic things the entire rest of the world kept getting involved in. Less value on tradition and early adoption of capitalism are the two reasons the US is so powerful and important

No.

>>13430815
yeah, this chart is completely absurd. Makes absolutely no sense, and clearly used some ridiculous methodology

>Italy and Japan produce a lot of food exports.
>America and China buys a lot of food exports.
What the fuck is the point of this graph?

>>13430830
but its not that, the US is a net exporter of food. Whatever this chart is saying is even more confusing and dumb, and less meaningful

>>13430841
prove it then

>>13430738
In the past, absolutely. Now everyone here is so desperate for a sense of identity they cling to any gleam of culture from their parents and defend it to the death. The american culture died after the psychedelic craze. It turned everything on its head, and it was good in some ways but extremely destructive in others just because of how fast it happened. It definitely woke a lot of people up to the destructive war industry we relied on for years. I think technology now is the equivalent of the psychedelic era. Too much information too fast. People dont know where to focus their efforts

>>13430409
no actually important crop is limited to non temperate climate. coffee, tea, cocoa are merely a luxury. you can make sugar from beets.

>>13430846
prove what? That the us is a net exporter of food?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-american-food-giant-the-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html
The US is literally the largest exporter of food in the world

I genuinely do not understand what the chart is actually depicting

>Perceptions of Anglo-American dominance in movie and music trade motivate restrictions on cultural trade. Yet, the market for another cultural good, food at restaurants, is roughly ten times larger than the markets for music and film. Using TripAdvisor data on restaurant cuisines, along with Euromonitor data on overall and fast-food expenditure, this paper calculates implicit trade patterns in global cuisines for 52 destination countries. We obtain four results. First, the pattern of cuisine trade resembles the “gravity” patterns in physically traded products. Second, after accounting gravity factors, the most popular cuisines are Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, and American. Third, excluding fast food, the largest net exporters of their cuisines are the Italians and the Japanese, while the largest net importers are the USA—with a 2015 deficit of over $140 billion—followed by Brazil, China, and the UK. With fast food included, the US deficit shrinks to $55 billion but remains the largest net importer along with China and, to a lesser extent, the UK and Brazil. Fourth, cuisine trade patterns more closely resemble migration patterns than patterns of food trade or patterns arising from the extent of arable land in origin countries. Cuisine trade patterns run starkly counter to the audiovisual patterns that have motivated concern about Anglo-American cultural dominance.

So an American restaurant sale in America is called an import and an American restaurant sale abroad is an export? No wonder they're doing so shit.

>>13428674
>American cuisine
no such thing

This is what tards think about America. America has Louisiana cuisine and black cuisine. Everything else is imported. Not forcibly enslaved imported though.

>>13430738
>The strength of every aspect of american culture has come from it's diversity.
Sorry, shit changes.

>>13428789
This.

All this chart means is that Europe is entirely close minded "ew it's not what I grew up eating and mama doesn't make it so I'm not going to eat it" snobs.

And before this turns into a racial thing, you don't have to be a good peoples to have produced good food so it's got nothing to do with Italy being "pure" or any such garbage. They just don't eat anything but speghetti and flatbreads with cheese and toppings.

>>13428751
bear in mind it says "net exporters"

it could be that they eat nothing but egyptian cuisine, and some other countries also eat some egyptain cuisine, and so they're technically net exporters.

>>13428674
Italy doesn't have anything to sell, but olive oil, and other food items.

>>13428674
Reminder
Americans are thieves
American cuisine is whatever place they recently sacked or whatever rotten cheese has been left laying around

>>13432250
Your country?

>>13432250
>country fails
>America saves it
>country then succeeds
>America is "sacks" countries
Sad tosser.

>>13432250
Giving your pathetic country money, medicine, and services is the opposite of thievery.