/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Any clean steak knife does the trick. I'm only cooking for one. The small loss of efficiency makes little difference.

>>13278360
Bait

>>13278360
a steak knife is literally, LITERALLY Bad at everything a knife does

>>13278360
>c

>>13278350
I say I want a cleaver but Sugimoto is overpriced as fuck; I'll wet my toes with a Suien or Dao Vua.

>>13278407
I'm OP and mine cost $9 on Amazon. Had it 3 months and use it daily.

>>13278407
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CDVXUK

price went up a bit but still worth it. when i took it out of the package i could slice through paper like nothing, be very careful with it it's heavy as well you can easily lose fingertips etc if youre someone who posts fast food threads

>>13278411
>>13278413
I don't live in the US and import taxes from non-European countries are whack so sourcing's a bitch.

>>13278350
Hory shet it’s autism

>>13278350
Based and cleaver pilled. Joking aside, I too end up using a cleave for most of my cutting needs.

>>13278413
That's a meat cleaver not a Chinese chef knife. It's too heavy and blade too thick to be used comfortably for general slicing and dicing.

Cleavers are not very useful. If u want cool weeb chef points. Use a gyuto

great chef knife, perfect handle, pretty cheap so no guilt about maintenance although it's easy to maintain. fuck off hipster knife fags

>>13278350
>"only use a cleaver now"
>posts a vegetable knife

Guy please educate me on what kind of knife I should get for work. It's not heavy cooking like in a high class restaurant but it's not basic shit like a burger joint. Usually I would have the job of prep stuff like mince parsley, cut turnips, dice eggplants and peppers. But sometimes I would also be given the task of making food that includes cutting breads along with meats to put inside and sometimes grill work. What would be the best all around knife to get since realistically I shouldn't need more than one knife. My job has knives bought by the owner but nobody ever sharpens them fully and if I bring my own whetstone others will abuse the damn thing. I was thinking of a Santoku.

>>13278350

I like my cleaver but the Ginga is still my go to. If I ever end up getting the Gesshin cleaver I might use that as a daily driver, since the height is nice for knuckle space and it has enough weight that you don't have to use any downward force really.

That's probably my only complaint about the Gesshin, I'm now realizing. Because it's so thin it's really light, and I think I prefer something with a bit more weight behind it.

>>13278350

i love my chinese style cleaver, but you can't debone meat or handle small fruit/veg that well. I'd keep a pairing knife for filigree tasks.

Recommend me a GOAT cleaver.

>>13279168
CCK 1303 like OP posted

>>13278350
you can't debone with a cleaver faggot

>>13279239
I give your mom de-bone every night, queer.

>>13279239
You can do anything you set your mind to!

the longer im on /ck/ the more i realize that le japanese steel meme is autism, and i'm glad I just get solid middle-of-the-road shit that I keep sharp and dispose of whenever I feel like it

What's the best knife for someone with REALLY big hands

>>13278390
Wrong. Steak knives are great for halving cherry tomatos.

>>13279257

I feel you, just look at /r/chefknives its the cringiest shit ever

>>13279290
my penis

>>13279290
buck 120+
I'm 6'4 and gloves never fit.

>>13279257
Japanese knives are soy bugman territory, like safety razors for shaving and mechanical keyboards.

>>13278390
Except for cutting.

>>13280374
Noice raptor first responder bro

>>13278350
I use one knife that's shaped very similarly to pic related. The blade of mine is a bit longer is all. It works well enough for everything I want or need a knife for in the kitchen. I hone it a little 2 times a year or so to keep it in good shape. It was about 20 or 30 years old when I got it, and I figure it might last another 20 years or more.

>>13280780
They're for cutting meat off of goose/crane/duck legs, I sell weed for a living not first respond kek

>>13278350
I only have a cleaver, a chef's knife, and a paring knife.
I use the cleaver for just about everything.

>>13280836
O

Enjoy deboning meat and filleting fish with your sharp pavement slab weeb

>>13281362
It's a Chinese knife.

>>13281383
I don't give a fuck I only came here to talk shit and leave back /pol/ where actual discussion takes place

>>13279239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRHWMPgjJro

yes you can....?

>>13278393

I completely stopped giving a shit about knives. I recently bought this electric sharpener and I use it every few weeks to sharpen a cheap Victorinox professional knife.
fuck expensive japanese knives and stones and shit. I can have a reasonably sharp knife in a quick and easy way at any moment. I don't need it to dry shave my arm or bullshit like that.

>>13281678
t. can't cut a tomato without sawing it

>>13278350
I like a good paring knife

Bread knives with big well spaced teeth are superior.

make way for the master cut

For me, it's a traditional jewish baby dick slicer. This one's by Cuisinart

old hickory

>>13281678
based, knives are tools not precious artifacts tied to our personal identities

>>13278950
With these two knives you can successfully work in a kitchen.

>>13279036
Don't let people use your shit and expect them to treat it with respect.
Any way get a good honing rod and a western chef knife

>>13278960
thats a cleaver, look up pics of a nakiri (veggie knife)

>>13279036
japanese gyuto, spend abt 80 bucks if youre looking for a decent reliable knife. doesnt have quite the rocking ability of a german knife, but stays sharper longer, and is great for chopping/dicing veggies (mostly flat belly)

>>13278413
>be very careful with it it's heavy as well you can easily lose fingertips etc if youre someone who posts fast food threads
kek

>>13281936
Hell yeah, I got one of the steak knives since it gave me free shipping at midway. I like the patina it gets.

>>13278407
I'll get mine from my local blacksmith. He gives me cutting implements for free to try out.

>>13278413
>price went up a bit
its $10, wtf? dirt cheap

>>13280374
I'm 6" shorter and no gloves fit me so you must be fucked

>Wusthof Crafter
>worse than Classic Ikon in every way
>Wusthof won't even list what steel they used for their Crafter line
>way more expensive than Classic Ikon

How does this work?

>>13283517
>I'll get mine from my local blacksmith
I didn't know they had internet in the 16th century.

>>13283902
He's just a flyover

I've got a bunch of cheap knives since I don't know how to sharpen properly yet so I don't wanna spend money on something I can't maintain for it to be worth it. I've got:
>ikea chefs knife
>kiwi nakiri
>kiwi chefs knife
>gifted zwilling santoku (meh)
I actually prefer the German profiled ikea to the gyuto like kiwi chef's most of the time. The nakiri is pretty fun though since it's quite thin, might buy a Chinese veg cleaver next.

Is this any good?

Additionally, how can I remove the lettering from it?

My only cookware is a Chinese cleaver and a cast iron Dutch oven

Deutscher Stahl from Solingen. Nippon knives dont handle any better, they are just more exotic and expensive.

>>13284466
enameled but otherwise correct

>>13284465
That's a meat cleaver.

>>13284924
What’s the difference?

>>13285043
A chinese "cleaver" isn't actually a cleaver, it's a thin knife for slicing and dicing veg. The broad shape is so you can scoop up fistfulls of veg and throw it in a wok.
A proper cleaver is thick and heavy, for breaking bones apart and other heavy duty butchery.
A Chinese butcher butcher knife for actual meat cleaving looks nothing like the "chinese cleaver" as we call it.

What is /ck/'s thoughts on this knife?

It's on sale on Amazon right now.
Wusthof 4582-7/16 CLASSIC Cook's Knife, 6-Inch, Black

>>13285382
Don't bother. Get the Victorionix Meme Knife™, seriously

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Chefs-Knife-8-Inch/dp/B000638D32

>>13285382
>bolster
It's trash.

>>13285382
cheap steel worse than chinese 8cr13mov

>>13278350
just smith your own knife dumbass

>>13285269
I thought the text stamped on that cleaver said the Hong Konginator

>>13286733
Reddit but still laughed

why do people use jap knives? is it some weeb shit i dont understand?

>>13287440
They generally have harder steels which hold an edge longer. The higher hardness and wear resistance also makes it easier to get very fine edges.

>>13287475
so there is nothing actually better? sounds like you could just use a normal knife but spend a few bucks more on some better steel

>>13287490
Where can I find a normal knife with better steel that isn't overpriced?

>>13287560
idk, try using google

>>13287490
So basically just get a weeb knife.

>>13280389
Imagine being a pleb who doesn't own a chef knife or a Model F keyboard

>>13287560
You can't. That anon already showed he doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>13287490
The hardness combined with the thinner profile of Japanese knives makes for a knife that cuts like a laser.
You could make a western knife of thin, good quality steel but then you'd just have a gyuto anyway.

What are some hard foods people cut with knives? Even with a dull blade, I'm never needing to apply significant force to anything. Do most people have shit technique?

>>13287440
Same reason people stopped shopping at Brooks Bros and started buying stuff from smaller boutique apparel manufacturers. Before the internet people had to just go with whatever the big established retailer wanted to shove down their throats. Retailers knew we had no choice so quality went downhill while prices went up.

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get an excellent chef's knife for <$100, but we were living with $150-200 mediocrity until Japan came along and saved the day. You can now have very good knives for $70 and ridiculously good knives for $200 if you want to spend it.

White people knives are going to cost you like $1500 if you want the equivalent of a $200 Japanese knife.

>>13290490
it's not about hardness of food, you can cut carrot even with screwdriver. squishy foods like tomatoes, boiled eggs, fish etc is where it matters

>>13290530
Then why do people say dull knife is dangerous? I'm never pushing hard with a somewhat dull knife, but I accidentally cut myself during non-cutting handling of sharp knife. Are accident havers pushing straight down?

>>13290557
dull one can just slide on surface, pushing straight down surely makes it more likely to happen

>>13290557
The concern with dull knives is that you have to put extra effort in to make them cut, which means you're more likely to slam them straight through your fingers if you miss. Extremely sharp knives cut through most things so easily that you barely have to apply pressure at all.
That said, if you have proper cutting technique and you aren't a moron, you don't need a perfectly sharp knife.

>>13290557
Because dull and sharp knives behave differently and when you're using a cutting tool expecting one behavior and it behaves in another way accidents happen and accidents with knives often end up with blood. People used to dull knives will also hurt themselves when given a sharp knife, but people used to dull knives are apathetic people who don't go online and spout off with preachy nonsense about the One True Way, so you never hear them going "hurr hurr sharp knives are dangerous". Whereas people used to sharp knives are usually autistic nerds who spend hours every week polishing their eutectoid martensite carbide formations on painstakingly formed toguso from the Binsui Aoto Buu-Arc Nihontoishi with Kaioken Full Power Kamehameha SSBKKx20. So anyone who does it another way is WRONG and EDUCATED STUPID.

Go into your average Italian grandma kitchen and I guarantee you her knife won't pass the "hanging hair test" or the "thumbnail test" and if you ask her about the "sharpie trick" or the "three pennies trick" she'll look at you like you just descended from Planet Vegeta. And yet "Knife Guys" will not hesitate to tell her she's wrong and her food is SHIT because she doesn't sperg about aogami super hamono like a mentally ill weeb.

>>13290602
>people used to sharp knives are usually autistic nerds
Just not true. The autistic nerds are a minority, but they do make up a majority of this board. Most people never talk about it, we just sharpen our knives often. It's an easy and good habit.

>>13281821
>the little dicks adorning the handle

>>13278350
I use pic related
Don't have to worry about re-positioning the knife as much
But also can't stab shit, and is extremely unsafe to store anywhere

>>13278350
I have a solid knife collection, but my favourite is still my 15 year old $15 fillet knife. One stays in the kitchen and one I use when I go fishing/hunting/camping.

>>13290959
Thanks for providing me with another candidate for the "Ugliest knife ever" thread on the kitchenknifeforums.

>>13290959
that's one I've been interested in for a long time but thats the first time I've seen it with a sense of scale
is it really that small?
I thought it would be significantly larger

>>13290988
I gave one of those to a buddy for christmas about a decade ago, it really is a damn good knife

>>13290959
Since when is Lamson back in business? Jacques Pepin usues a large Lamson and Goodnow knife in his legendary chicken ballotine galantine video and I looked up the brand but apparently they had gone out of business by that time. That was several years ago.

>>13278350
how good is a cleaver at pairing?

>>13291016
That probably depends on what other object you want to pair it with.

Or do you mean paring?

>>13290996
no, u
>>13291014
yeah, its really small, i thought it was gonna be bigger when i got it
>>13291015
??? Fuck if I know, I just went onto a website about bought it for like 27 bucks, can i brag about that now when people ask me about my retarded knife?

>>13291106
I guess it makes sense, usually when I think of a 12 inch knife they don't include the handle in the length, but the handle on that is about an inch into the blade making it the length a more normal 6 inch knife
now I'm fairly concerned if my hand could even fit comfortably into the grip

>>13291124
exactly, i was wonder the whole time when it was shipping if it was gonna be long as fuck or just a 6 incher without the ulu

>>13278350
I got so fucking tired of chopping mirepoix and soffritto that I am literally at this moment buying a food processor
so sue me!

literally the only knife you will ever need

>>13291440
what is this, a knife for ants?

>>13278411
name?

>>13291440
Why is it dimpled?

>>13291440
>$60 on woodcraft
thanks jew, I needed a knife that wasn't god-awful expensive to see if I wanted to get in on this autism

thoughts on the wusthof pro? I need a good chef knife for the house and they're pretty cheap, but I also want a knife that's comfy for smaller hands and a pinch grip.

>>13291824
German knives are for people with freakish german meat hooks for hands

Buy French if you're a euroboo

>>13291862
Any brand recommendations? I don't really care where it comes from, I just want it to fit my hands and I want to keep it to $50 or less because I literally just need at least one good knife in this house, I'm fucking tired of using the same shit that my parents were using since I was a kid

based and cleaverpilled

>>13279093
Wow totally safe and not dangerous knife storage

You people are all retarded for spending so much money on knives. I bought a 6 knife set by Farberware for $35 on sale. Works perfectly fine and has for years.

>>13278350

Any massive/heavy/allpurpose cleaver ideas for 50-80$?
The "top 10 best cleavers of all time" lists I saw all had 20$ amazon shit on them. I want to buy from an actual seller.

>>13291955
Yeah why buy one good knife when you can have 6 shitty knives?

The patrician choice

>>13291876
I have the same problem but I'll pay up to $100 or a bit over if I have to. I fucking hate having a hundred dull knives that cant cut shit. need some serious recommendations

>>13278350
nice, I did the same. except I didn't throw out my knife set. I use some cheap stainless cleaver mass produced in china. hole in the end like a cartoon cleaver, wooden grip panels on either side of the full tang. it dresses chickens and slices vegetables fine.

>>13278350
Basic Eden chef knife. Cheap, holds a reasonable edge yet can be easily sharpened.

>>13292174
based and scalpel pilled

>>13280389
Safety razors are great though, cheapest, cleanest shave apart from straight razors but who really uses those. Also I have one of those old white mechanical keyboards with the green ps/2 things I got for free. They just type better. I'm not giving up on good stuff just because plebbitors use them

>>13293419
based, safety razors are the cheapest cleanest shave a man can get. I bought a 300 pack of razors over a year ago and im no where near done. my ol lady even uses one for her legs. if youre poor and not a dumb ass youll use a safety razor!

Got one of these.

Agreed you only need one knife for most food prep.

>>13278350
> Not using a serrated knife.

Retard.

>>13281745

I have the same unit. I used to sharpen my friend's chef's knives on stones and I actually developed arthritis from it. I bought this almost exact thing and all I do is strop the end product with green compound and I can shave with it. I recently took to labeling my blades with a small patch of white duct tape to keep people from severing arteries. On that machine you only use 2 basically. 2 and then strop. 1 and 2 if the blade needs conditioning.

>>13278350
My knives are better than your knife. Same goes for anyone in this thread.

>>13293789
Why people spend more than $15 on a knife set is completely beyond me. It's not going to change the flavor at all.

>>13293789
i dont wanna gut a pig for dinner with that bro

>>13293795

Laser Steak knives are LIFE. They're the shitbox kings. Every poverty household should have them. And even middle to upper middle income, because they can cut Romex, BX, floor tile, diapers and still be sharp enough to saw through a shitty steak.

>>13293814
ok ill order some thx brobro

why don't they make a knife out of meme alloy like stellite or inconel?

>>13293959

I was joking but.. actually I use them every day. -cries-....

>>13293968

Martensite, austenite?

>>13293980
those are just different ways to heat treat

>>13293970
fuck you ill stick with my swiss army knife then brobrobro cant believe you lied to me

>>13293989

Right.. what else you got? Dicktastite?

>>13285459
bought it for my dad, thanks.

I have a cleaver and started using it for some prep just to see how it felt. Only advantage I really see is that it makes picking up prep off of the board really easy. Otherwise it is big and bulky and I can't see what I'm doing as well because there is a huge sheet of metal in my way. Rather just use a chef knife or santoku.

>>13291911
lmao just use a stronger magnet wuss
what are the knives gonna do, jump at you?

>>13294922
heavier weight so chopping require less downforce force

and with the fat blade you can just press it against point of knuckles and just move blade up and down

and you can peel,mince (smack) ginger and garlic in one move like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRrsifp2FpA

best chef knife if you could only have one knife and had $50-100 to spend on it? is shun a meme?

>>13296989
Fujiwara fkh

>>13297334
I've got it narrowed down to a 8.5" MAC gyuto for $69 or the fuji 9.5" gyuto for $82

>>13297393
I dunno what mac you're seeing for $70 but it's probably not the ultimate. Low end macs are not very good. The amazing reputation that macs have is because of the ultimate, nothing more

>>13297410
it's from their chef series which is probably the low end. guess it'll be the fuji, then. I'm on chefknivestogo, should I fork over the extra shekels for their fancy weeb sharpening service?

>>13297426

You people talk like the knife you buy is magic. Do any of you idiots know how to sharpen a knife? You could have sheathed raw japanese steel in the best blade with the best temper and it dies in 3 months.

>>13297426
I don't know anything about their service. All knives need some work out of the box. I like to do my own. I wouldn't bother personally unless it was a traditional knife (yanagi, deba, etc) because those are a royal bitch to dial in, especially the cheap ones. A simple carbon deba should be easy and pain free if you have a rough stone. I assume you have that already, no?

>>13297450
Happy thanksgiving, angry luthier guy. Get into any fights with your family this year or are you now disinvited?

>>13297456
>>13297426
Obviously I meant to type a simple carbon *gyuto*. A deba is not simple or fun to deal with.

>>13297450
I have some old whetstone and steel honing rod my dad gave me, so I can definitely learn how to do it myself. I just want a good quality knife that can take a nice edge and not lose it within a day. And a gyuto seems neat because you can do rocking and pushing cuts, and the straighter tip looks nice for dicing
>>13297456
>>13297482
how hard is it to work with an asymmetrical edge? because the fuji is lol

>>13297460

I don't know Hanging on by a Thread guy. Did you leave your room today? I just spatchcocked a chicken, baked 3 loaves and said 'hi' to people other than family. I'm making chicken fried rice tomorrow and wishing the dishes I make went into a hole. How you doing, honey?

>>13297508
Don't ever put a honing rod on japanese steel. Just resharpen it. It'll either chip or.. nothing good. A ceramic honing rod won't destroy it, but it's just a waste of time.

>>13297508
>not lose it within a day
It's sk4, not exactly amazing edge retention but very easy to sharpen. If you are just learning this is a good knife. Just remember you can't have it both ways (easy to sharpen and amazing edge retention)
>a gyuto seems neat because you can do rocking and pushing cuts, and the straighter tip looks nice for dicing
I don't know where you're getting your information but you should probably not take it too seriously.
>because the fuji is lol
No, you can treat that like a 50/50, it barely matters. The knives that are a pain in the ass that are erroneously referred to as "single bevel" are actually a complex compound bevel. Maintaining them is like a full time job, don't buy one unless you just want a hobby.

>>13297528
No, you're definitely him, and you are drunk again but it would only be news if you were sober.

>>13297553

Why so angry, hun? You're literally vicious. So something is going on. Talk to me. I'll keep shit simple for you.

>>13297545
That isn't true, ceramic is great for an emergency touch-up on japanese knives if you just started a meal and you realize your edge has gone to shit. I can get a few days extension out of my idahone and a loaded strop.

>>13297564
I'm not very interested in talking to you nor is anyone else, but that never stopped you before did it.

>>13297567

ALWAYS use a strop. If for nothing else it won't destroy your edge. Ceramic is fine because it doesn't chip. Steel steel is terrible, it destroys your blade.

Oh, and use green compound.

>>13297575

You poor thing. I hope you learn to cope.

>>13297548
>Just remember you can't have it both ways (easy to sharpen and amazing edge retention)
right, I was looking at 60+ HRC stuff but if I'm gonna learn how to use a stone I should go with something softer, and I don't want something so brittle that I can only make sushi with it kek. Just trying to stay away from the softer german stuff because I don't want to be sharpening my shit every other day, at that point I might as well just get a victorinox.

>>13285459
2nd. I love my cheap, sharp meme knife. Ugly as shit, no frills, gets the job done.

>>13297581
Nothing will "destroy" an edge save perhaps a dry grinding wheel, but a strop can roll a very refined edge if used incorrectly. And ceramic certainly can undo all your work if used improperly, and requires some finesse if you want to get anything out of it. But the point is it's a lie to say they "don't do anything" or that it's a "waste of time", on the contrary they are a time saver when used correctly.

>>13297593
The hardness is less relevant with the stone than the abrasion resistance. Hardness is a complicated topic and you have to account for steel type, edge geometry and usage to make any meaningful statements about it.

Sk4 is not highly abrasion resistant and doesn't work up a ridiculous annoying burr which is what makes it easy to sharpen and maintain. You could say the same about some more expensive carbon steels but sk4 is cheap stuff.

There is nothing wrong with victorinox.

>>13297599

If you send RC 60 over a shitty steel it will chip. Do you know what I'm saying to you?

>>13297619
Drink some water and go to bed.

>>13297624

Is your home wood paneled? Jesus, dude.

>>13297599

You don't understand brittle blades. How don't you get this. It's a crystalline structure that it's either super sharp or broken.

>>13297661
>>13297636
>>13297619
For the person asking for advice ITT, learn to ignore the luthier's signature shitposting style. They're wrong, they're bait, and he's just looking to stir up shit and take out his anger on something.

>>13297768

You poor fuck. Where do you live? How do you live? God. I'll stop coming here if you stop 'wound collecting' look that up. You're a psychologists master thesis.

Honestly, read what I wrote.

>>13297768
Wound Collectors see everything they read as a personal slight and make it their life to 'avenge' themselves on their 'accuser'. You're a human mess, man. Try to look inward and why you're so depressed before you spend your life stalking someone else.

>>13297768

Did you finally see you're the "angry irrational Aunt"? You're not going through menopause. You're just unstable.

Has he passed out yet? Thread back to normal?

>>13298091

Can't dodge your truth, pal. You know you.

>>13297661
There are steels that can reach high hardnesses without being brittle.
The one labeled X50 is what most german knives are made with. N690 is similar to VG10.

>>13298206

I thought vg10 was shit? Isn't there a vg10s or something?

>>13297548
>No, you can treat that like a 50/50, it barely matters.
why does it barely matter?

>>13278413
Came here to post this:
>>13283475

>>13298225
Different anon, but I have never heard anyone say it was shit. It isn't super high end steel but you probably aren't paying super high end prices either. Or at least you shouldn't be.

>>13298225
Hipsters shat on VG10 for a while in the 2010s as an overreaction to people in the 2000s saying VG10 was the best ultimate steel to end all steels. Don't read into it too much. It's not the steel to end all steels but it's not terrible. However there is some merit to the backlash in that it's not the easiest thing to sharpen and yet it finds its way into a lot of general-purpose consumer knives when something like 12C27 or its Japanese equivalent would be a better choice. Much of the hostility to VG10 comes from frustrated first time buyers of "high end" (sic) Japanese knives who expected easy maintenance but only got rust resistance and edge holding.

thoughts on chromax? Takamura makes a chromax gyuto and for $120 it sounds like a steal.

>>13279093
>VG-10

I see you're a fan of welfare steel.

Kill yourselves

>>13290508
What's the name of this great $70 knife? I believe you

is white steel a good starting place for weeb knives? people say it's easy to sharpen and can take a sharp edge

>>13300927
What knife should i use for that?

>>13291911
Have you ever actually seen a real kitchen? This is a standard knife mag strip..

>>13300187
VG10 is terrible by modern standards. It's not even entry level any longer.

>>13301607
t. autistic sperg who spends 14 hours a week playing with mud puddles on the kitchen counter

>>13301607
Is AUS-10 a better alternative? Sandvik "Swedish stainless" is significantly more expensive, and PM steels are harder to sharpen in addition to being significantly more expensive.

>>13301657
>t. autistic sperg who spends 14 hours a week playing with mud puddles on the kitchen counter

Excellent argument. You certainly supported it with aplomb.

>>13301660
>Is AUS-10 a better alternative? Sandvik "Swedish stainless" is significantly more expensive, and PM steels are harder to sharpen in addition to being significantly more expensive.

You're going the wrong direction. PM steels aren't inherently harder to sharpen, but many PM steels can be in practice. Hard to sharpen is usually defined by wear resistance and hardness. Coated M4, M390, coated k390, 4V, are all great steels for kitchen knives, though I wouldn't use either of the Bohler offerings for a chopper. There are 3 things that define how well an edge cuts. The geometry, the heat treat, and the material. Don't compromise on any of the three. You're generally stuck with whatever material and heat treat the manufacturer does but you can reprofile.

>>13301681
why are japanese high carbon steels referred to as easy to sharpen if they're so much harder than soft western stuff? does wear resistance make a bigger difference?

>>13279305
not as great as a small santoku

>>13301681
"Not even entry level" is not an argument, it's just hipster nonsense.

>>13301716
Any sweeping generalization like that shouldn't be taken seriously. Wear resistance and burr formation are the biggest factors in how easy a knife is to sharpen. "Raising the burr" is often considered an important indicator for when you're getting things right - but the burr itself is not inherently desirable, it's just a way of using a disadvantage to your advantage. Within reason, harder steels tend to produce a burr that is easier to get rid of after it's served its purpose. Same goes for simple carbon steels in general, because the carbide formations tend to be smaller and the stone cuts away at the metal at a consistent, easy to follow rate of wear.

The first generation "super steels" (western and japanese) had huge carbides and very tenacious burrs so while they were capable of great performance, they were also extremely annoying to work with. The more recent semi-stainless powder metallurgy "super steels" have a finer grain pattern and can be said to have most of the advantages of a simple carbon steel, the most useful advantages of a classic stainless, while minimizing the disadvantages of a classic stainless steel.

>>13301845
>"Not even entry level" is not an argument, it's just hipster nonsense.

What's it like inside the short bus? Is it nice?

>>13301131
Never tried it but I like Aogami Blue.

>>13301845

I'm sorry I don't think your favorite steel is worth the time of a first time buyer. I'm sorry there are much better steels, that perform better in all categories, that are available at reasonable price points, making your favorite steel no longer a valid option for a first time buyer. I'm most sorry that I have to explain this to someone of your caliber since you obviously know that VG10 doesn't cut less well today than it did 10+ years ago, however, just like with horses and cars; the older technology stops being a worthwhile purchase once it has been outpaced.

Or were you about to tell us the virtues of haircuts with cast bronze "knives" wielded by the barber doctor?

>>13301925
I don't remember telling you what my favorite steel was, can you point me to that post?

masahiro virgin carbon
suisin virgin carbon
gesshin wa stainless
what would you pick for a first knife

>>13301925
Different anon here, I just got my first budget chef knife and I'm loving it. I wanted something that I could fuck up and have accidents with without caring, and to learn what I like in a kitchen knife. What are some good entry level options and steels to look for? I know a bit about steels since I am in to hunting and outdoor knives.

>>13301938
Those are pretty random choices. Between the suisin and the masahiro the latter has better steel. The gesshin is too different to compare.
>>13301949
If you already have a knife and you like it, then what are you trying to accomplish by getting another? I'm not telling you not to buy more shit, but usually people have a reason, and they make their choice based on the reason.

>>13301961
the masahiro seems interesting because it's cheap, pretty hard, and has a 90/10 bevel or some weeb shit. suisin just because it's commonly recommended and also similarly cheap, and then the gesshin wa gyuto because it's the cheapest wa I can find, and comes with a sheathe. lots of people seem to go with suisin or gesshin, I just want a good first and easy to sharpen J blade

>>13301961
There are things about the blade design, grip, etc that I don't like, and the first night I got it I was drunk so I didn't clean it right away and it got some rust on it. The whole point was just to have a learning experience with knives and figure out my likes/dislikes since there are so many options out ther. It's not the knife itself that I like, it's finally having a sharp knife in the kitchen. I have been using a knife I got at the dollar store for maybe seven years now.

I'll just figure it out for myself.

>>13301990
See my post earlier in this thread regarding 90/10 bevels. It's not going to be relevant 1-2 years from now once you've set your own edge profile, which you will need to do anyway.

The gesshins have a reputation as lasers which is appealing to some people. Personally if I was getting a laser I'd rather have a monosteel carbon knife but that's just me. I'm less enamored with that concept than I once was, I think lasers are one-trick ponies. Like a car with twitchy steering, it makes you think it's high performance on a quck test drive. But if you just want "fun" and "no compromise cutting" then why not go all out with a carbon laser? Maybe it's just me.
>>13301992
Mild surface rust is easily fixed, get a wine cork and some barkeeper's friend. The other characteristics obviously you need to be able to articulate to yourself what it is you dislike about the blade or handle before knowing what to look for that would be an upgrade.

>>13298444
It barely matters because the primary bevel is only about 2mm wide, you're barely going to feel that, and that's within the range you'd be setting yourself when you first break in the knife out of the box. When people talk about "single bevel" (sic) knives they're talking about knives where one side has a bevel that can be 15mm wide and the other might have 2mm of "flat" bevel and then another 30mm of concavity up the back. If you have never cut with a knife like that, the first time you do it's like they've got a mind of their own, it feels wrong and very confusing. That's not the case with these 90/10 knives you see with western handles.

>>13301932
>I don't remember telling you what my favorite steel was, can you point me to that post?

Your bootyblastedness has all but given you away.

>>13302125
You're the only one getting bootyblasted here. Sorry I called you a hipster and an autistic sperg but that's what you are.

>>13302066
gesshin has their uraku line which is white #2 and it's only marginally more expensive, but substantially thicker. I don't know if I need a laser, but it sounds nice. only other blade I can think of is tojiros ITK which is like $65 for a 210mm gyuto in white #2, 4mm thick at the heel, wa handle, and apparently only good for a project knife

>>13295879
>and you can peel,mince (smack) ginger and garlic in one move like this

I thought everyone knew about this already. Also, it can be done with any chef knife

>>13302066
>barkeeper's friend
I already tried that. Pic related is what I got and the two main things I would change. I keep hitting my knuckles on the cutting board. It doesn't hurt or anything, it's just annoying.

>>13293770
>Retard.
Serrated knives are for people who are too retarded to sharpen a regular knife. I can do almost anything a serrated knife was made to do with a chef knife.

>>13302215
I'm pretty sure that was bait.

>>13291453
When a knife has dimples, it’s so food doesn’t stick to it so easily as you slice it.

>>13278950
the bolster makes me wanna kill myself

my go-to is my 10.5" tojiro dp chef's knife. i also have an 8" mighty mac chef's knife, a 6" tojiro dp petty knife and a f.dick offset bread knife. really don't need much else.

I have used Japanese knives. Their blades are not as well balanced as the European nor are their handles. Knives are subject to cuisine. Japanese cuisine is widely different than European. Compared to European Cuisine theirs is not as solid and versatile. For instance take de-boning a fowl without breaking the skin for multi-fowl dishes. Furthermore, slicing a swede with a thin knife can be problematic, especially if it is sliced thinly. It requires well balanced heavy blade and a firm grip handle. Yes, folks, Japan has come a long way since WWII but she still has a long way to go to meet / exceed European technology and material. Sweden still produces the finest steel in the world. Solingen still makes the best knives. France is still the queen of European Cuisine. Nope, neither Japanese knives nor Japanese cars for me. I use English knives and drive a Volvo.

>>13302170
most knives dont have the weight or surface area to easily do that

>>13302347
This is a very well crafted troll post

>>13302132
Yes, I was the one who resorted to ad hominem. Try different damage control tactics. The one's you're using now aren't working.

>>13302419
Are we going to just go through your poster of "internet fallacies" now? You want to get into your rampant strawmanning or shall we just get straight to my dad can beat up ur dad u reddit dilate tranny.

>>13291911

Are you an idiot or just pretending?

>>13300872

I honestly don't have much of an opinion on VG10. The bread knife came in a set I got before I knew much. White 2 is my go to at this point.

>>13297613

WTF is "Abrasion Resistance?!" That's a fucking term used in tape. What a prick you are to lead people astray. Hardness is how metal abraids when placed on a harder surface. This board is full of cocksuckers.

>>13302766
Silly luthier, you're drunk again. Should you be posting? This is always so awkward.

For the people who might desire reliable facts here:hardness is not how metal "abraids" (sic). In the context of knife blades it refers to an indentation test, specifically the Rockwell C-scale. (as you might surmise there are several other Rockwell scales less useful in this context). A Rockwell test takes a very hard metal penetrater, the tester first creates a small pilot indentation, and then measures the size of the penetration created by applying a second stronger force with the point previously placed in the pilot hole.

There are other established and defined ways to measure hardness that use other kinds of tests, some of which might be valuable when discussing abrasion resistance, such as "Keep's Test" which involves a drill bit, a fixed amount of pressure, and a defined number of revolutions. But that is not what knife manufacturers mean when they publish a hardness rating for their knife, and it is also not what anyone else means when discussing cooking knives.

Note, for purposes of the following quote, "Brinell" can be substituted for "Rockwell" since the testing methods are essentially the same (two companies making testing gear, same idea):

>There is no definite relation between hardness, as measured by the Brinell hardness testing method, and wear. While, in general, a high Brinell hardness number may be expected to indicate a metal which will give better wear, there are so many exceptions that this test for indication wearing properties would be unreliable. As an example, Hadfield's manganese steel,which has a low Brinell hardness number, is one of the best steels as far as wear is concerned. The relation of either Brinell tests of ordinary wear tests to wear in actual practice is a subject which requires further investigation. Wear tests should be made along different lines, according to the actual uses to which the metal is to be put.

>>13302953

I love you, Hanging On by A String. You keep pumping someone might save your life.

>>13302953

You spent so much time on this. Are you fucking crazy? Or just have nothing in your life? You're that guy with the JESUS SAVES sign at this point.

>>13302953

You're an incredibly weird dude, but here's a recipe even you can manage. Fresh english cucumber, a good tomato, red onion. medium dice all that shit and mix then add tzatziki and crumbed feta.

Dry fry a pita, a proper greek pita with seasoning salt. Oh, mix seasoning salt into your salad as well.

Best food you will ever taste.

>>13302953

Where'd you go, depressive? I assume you're either Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana. Where you from weirdie?

>>13302506
You must really like VG10.

>gesshin stainless 210mm wa gyuto for $130 with sheathe included
>gesshin uraku 210mm wa gyuto in white #2 is $145 with no sheathe
bout ready to flip a coin because I can't fucking decide

>>13303117
What do you need the sheth for?

>>13303200
don't have a knife block, just a drawer full of shitty knives that are older than me. I figure the included saya at least justifies me splurging on a knife, I can safely store it that way.

>>13303203
Right on. I just got a cheapo magnet the other day and stuck it to my fridge.

>>13279239
if you cant debone with just your hands you are a techniquelet

>>13283320
>nakiri
(not op) ok thanks. I'm chef at a restaurant, I have a bunch of awesome knifes, but never used a cleaver/nakiri before.
shitfaced drunk right now, so I just bought a Damascus cleaver/nakiri off Ebay for 120 bucks just because of this thread... kek, I hope it was worth it, gonna live off ramen, rice and beer for a week just because of this...

>>13279239

This is why you use a santoku. It's shitty at everything but gets it all done.

Regardless, you don't debone with a fucking knife, idiot. You do it with your paws. I just sportchcracked a chicken last night and cooked it today. Let it get to room temp and deboned it with my hands. You don't use a fucking knife unless you want to eat bone shards.

>>13304143

You bought a pattern welded piece of shit off of a shitty Ebay site that will likely steal your identity and make you the next unibomber.

>>13304166
>you don't debone with a fucking knife, >You do it with your paws
t. skinwalker

how the fuck do you debone a fucking deer/elk with your paws? humans usually use knifes for this...

>>13304203

knives make bone shards. Pull the Cunting bird or possum apart with your fingers or you're a massive pussy.

You get good food and you can look at yourself in the morning.

A knife. Who does that?

>>13278350
Potential wall of text incoming. Sorry but this is a cooking board and I'm going to discuss cooking...

Back when I was just getting into the industry I had a massive boner for anything cooking related. I constantly read up on knives, equipment, techniques, ingredients and virtually anything else that would increase my skills. As I learned more about knives in particular, I became increasingly curious about the chinese chef's knife, or chai dao (or "cleaver" if you're an ignoramus). I eventually bought one for about $30 and started bringing it to work with me purely for the sake of learning how to utilize such an odd form factor. Time went by and I grew to love it. I was faaar more efficient with it than with a standard chef's knife (which I also owned. 8" Victorinox was my first purchase). It eventually became my daily driver, as the advantages of using it were just too good to pass up...
>knuckle clearance was amazing. I have large hands and some of the more slimline blades like Shuns were nigh unusable. Meanwhile I could rock chop with my big square blade all day and never risk my knuckles dragging across the cutting board.
>it's obviously the king of scooping. As a home chef this might not mean much but when you're tackling sacks of onions, bell peppers, potatoes, etc, being able to scoop a half pound of product off the board at a time *without* dropping shit everywhere just makes life a lot easier
>it also ruled at crushing. Fuck trying to smash garlic on a narrow ass chef's knife or gyuto. I could drop several cloves on the board and crush them all with a single thump on the blade.
>tap chopping was also super easy with all that weight behind the cutting edge. Fuck whacking at the board like you're trying to nail down shingles. The chai dao could produce the same amount of force with just a slight bobbing motion.
(cont...)

>>13304424
>it made quick work of cheese blocks too. Chef's knives, with their pointed tips, are legit dangerous for this task. I was once cutting a block of cheese with a chef's knife - one hand on the handle and the other on the opposite end of the knife. I pressed down hard (because there really is no other way to slice a block of cheese) and the backside of the knife tip pierced my hand and left a pretty gnarly gash. On a square blade though, there's no pointed end. You just put your palm on the back side of the blade, safely, several inches away from the sharp edge and let the weight of the blade do the work.
> if ever a spreader or spatula was missing from my station for whatever reason, I could make do with the knife. I once worked the flat top for an entire shift this way.
>empty cases need to be broken down before going in the dumpster? No biggie. Ol' quadrilateral here could hack them to pieces faster than a fucking boxcutter

I'll spare you guys a thousand other examples of this knife completely outclassing everything else.

tl;dr - All memes and tryhardism aside, it's a really good tool and, since they can be bought cheaply, you might as well just get one to play around with. You may never go back.

I want to see you throw your cleaver like a tomahawk, like in the movies

>>13291911
Not safe for England. All i ever see is those English stabbing each other in the streets with any pointy object they can grab

>>13304424
> I became increasingly curious about the chinese chef's knife, or chai dao (or "cleaver" if you're an ignoramus).

oppinion discarded your a faggot

>>13304207
>knives make bone shards
Stop hitting the bone.

>>13304425
You can make dumpling wrappers with it too.

>>13302347
based

>>13304174
Not that anon but there are some companies that make decent "damascus" knives. $120 is a little low for a knife that size, so he probably did get ripped off but not all modern "damascus" is shit. Just a whole fucking lot of it.

>>13291453
Dimples help air get behind whatever you're cutting so it can't have suction to the surface of the blade and will more readily slide off

This is my go-to knife for everything. My other two main knives are a thin chinese chef's cleaver and a Tojiro gyuto but the Victorinox beats them both in terms of how comfy and well balanced it is.

>>13302190
>I keep hitting my knuckles on the cutting board.

That's to be expected when you buy a knife made for asian sissy hands.

>>13278350
I understand the purpose of a meat cleaver, but a vegetable cleaver seems strictly less useful than a smaller chef knife. What am I missing?

>>13278950
cleavers aren't a hipster thing at all

the chinks do everything better than whitey does so why not assimilate?

chinese chefs use 1 knife, and thats the vegetable cleaver

aren't steak knives just bread knives?

>>13302190
cut near the edge of the cutting board so you have plenty of room for your knuckles

>>13306377
Okay that makes a lot of sense. It's one of those simple things I would have never figured out if someone didn't point it out to me.

>>13290959
That would likely be considered an illegal weapon in my state. For some reason they decided knives with knuckle guards are extra scary.

>>13304203
>moving goalposts
Typical bloodsport LARPing wannabe cave man, you always have to make this about your shooty sticks and your fondness for gnawing on lead fragments

>>13306335
A bread knife is like 12 inches long, generally a sheepsfoot shape and often has the handle raised slightly so your knuckles don't hit the cutting board, and is serrated for sawing through hard crusts without deforming the soft crumb within.
A steak knife is a much smaller blade for use at the dinner table, conventionally shaped, and isn't necessarily serrated.