/ck/ - Food & Cooking

We have sharp pointy teeth because God designed us to eat meat.


What are you gay or something?

>>13236610

yes I know about our teeth, I know all the excuses and for eating meat and their refutations, you can simply google them. I'm wondering if there is anyone else who has studied the ethics of veganism and came to the conclusion that there is no moral justification for eating meat, yet still eats meat. similar to this view: https://grist.org/food/is-there-a-moral-case-for-meat/

I became vegan because of my body refusing to properly digest and handle meat and dairy. I highly doubt those films would've done anything because in my younger years I was extremely edgy and would laugh at animals being beat to death for their fur. Now I find it disgusting.

>>13236629
I know for a fact that there is northing morally wrong with eating meat the same way I know there is nothing morally wrong with eating plants.

We have pointed teeth. End of discussion. You can't argue that at all.

>>13236629
You are trying to justify a personal decision in your life using someone else's opinion when you should be listening to what you want rather than what you think others will perceive as right or wrong.

tl;dr it's not healthy seeking everyones approval and living your life around the idea that you need to do what you think everyone else thinks is right.

>>13236663
eating meat directly causes unnecessary harm to sentient beings, and since we can avoid that harm by eating a vegan diet it's basically animal exploitation for pleasure.

>We have pointed teeth. End of discussion. You can't argue that at all.
how is that an argument? so because we are capable of causing harm that's a moral justification?

>>13236671
it is a choice, just like anything else, but that choice has a victim - an animal that didn't have to suffer because you could've chosen to get nutrients in a different manner. if you are against causing unnecessary harm yet you consume animal flesh, you're a hypocrite.

>>13236629
Yes it's unethical. There's no way to argue that it isn't. But cheese is really, really fucking good.

You'll probably get over your misgivings. Consuming animal products is so easy, so satisfying, so normalized, and so consequence-free, that almost no one abstains permanently. 84% of people who try veganism or vegetarianism go back to eating meat.

>>13236587
>vegans think I feel pity for women
Damn you sure fucked up on this one.

>>13236704
I'm a vegan but you can't, no, you shouldn't want to force people to be like you just because you realized it's morally wrong. All you can do is let them know why you chose to become a vegan. Outside of that you shouldn't try to force people, it'll only push them away. I'm not saying to not speak your mind or defend your beliefs, but it's not right to want to force people if they're not ready to let go of meat. I wasn't forced, I didn't watch any films or documentaries; I only became vegan because my body couldn't properly digest meat and dairy. If it wasn't for that I'd probably still be eating meat right now.

>>13236734

yeah, I guess the only practical solution is to eat a lot less of it. it's a cope, but that's what I'll do and maybe gradually I'll stop completely. doing wrong things and accepting your evil nature is slightly better than being a moron who uses arguments like "muh canine teeth!" and "muh b12!"

>>13236739
dilate and then kill yourself, tranny freak.

>>13236745
>accepting that we need meat for evolutionary reasons is better than pointing out we have evolutionary developments for eating meat and need a nutrient that the only natural nonsupplemental source of is meat
So I’m convinced that the biggest reason these lefty types are all retards is they’re egotistical as fuck

>>13236587
Just go vegan, sweaty. It requires less sustained effort than rationalizing to yourself not being vegan. And it make ur pp big

>>13236754

>"unnatural" supplementation
which nutrients, specifically, are you talking about? Vitamin B12? we already "unnaturally" supplement B12 to animals, which we then consume.

and what's wrong about supplementation? how is that a moral justification?

>>13236745
I think that's a pretty decent approach. Reducing harm is always good, right? Attempting to stay 100% pure at all times is really difficult and puts you in a precarious kind of absolutist mindset: as soon as you slip once, you've failed everything!

Also eating oysters is ethically defensible, even Peter Singer says so. So that's another thing to be aware of. If you're craving animal protein you can get it that way, guilt-free.

>>13236766
All animals make b12 on their own even us, we just evolved to need more of it from eating meat. We probably don’t need to give cows b12, it’s just a helpful thing to do.

>>13236587
you only like meet cos it's processed
meat is tasteless flesh and fat

>>13236587
I have been told by a gastroenterologist that I can't be vegan (or even vegetarian) due to my body's inability to digest oligosaccharides, disaccharides, and monosaccharides. This makes it impossible for me to get enough protein to remain healthy.

I'm very tired of people judging my about my diet. And i'm also very tired about being told that my diet is somehow less sustainable, or bad for the planet.

I'm just trying to stay alive.

>>13236766
>and what's wrong about supplementation? how is that a moral justification?
As for this, we could not obtain b12 from vegan sources before we ate meat, our ability to go vegan is only because we eat meat making us smart enough to extract b12 from algae. So really why stop now, who says now is the time to moralize? We don’t live post scarcity.

>been watching youtube videos on
You mean this brilliant platform telling us the hard truths like Earth is actually flat and vaccines cause autism?

>>13236776
If what you're saying was true, it would only be justification for eating enough animal foods to prevent b12 deficiency. Why do you eat 10,000x more than that then? It it because you actually don't care at all about nutrition and just like meat?

If it's in our nature to eat meat, I don't see that as "wrong".

If a bear evolved to the point of sapience, it wouldn't be any less moral for it to continue to eat meat. It's in its nature and vital for its health and survival.

I see raising animals for slaughter as a symbiotic relationship. We provide them a good life, take care of them, keep them healthy, and at some point will use them for food.

Shitty factory farming practices are another thing, but I don't see anything wrong ethically with raising healthy animals for slaughter.

>>13236787
Protip: RDA's are bullshit.

It's like the medical industry saying that as long as your testosterone levels are not below the "average" then you have no need to supplement, even if you're 1 point away from below the norm.

>>13236778
You're a tastelet retard if you believe that

>>13236802
You don't even monitor your b12 intake anyway.

>>13236785
Can I just try to put forth a rational argument for antivaxx? Not saying they don’t work, or that they can’t be a good thing for society, but we are putting an awful lot of trust in them. They would be an easy way to run tests on various populations, and other horrible human rights abuses. And what’s to make you think that won’t happen, what makes you think we live in a world that’s better than that? The oil spill in the gulf coast 10 years ago is still going strong. Chernobyl is still being taken care of, the fukushima plant is still spewing toxic waste into the sea, israel is colonialism in the 21st century being totally ignored. And the hate for antivaxxers is so dangerous, like we should be paranoid of the government on principle, if we are paranoid we are safe, what this country was founded on.

>>13236783
This is why veganism can be dangerous

Health should always be the primary concern. It doesn't help to try to be compassionate to others to your own detriment.

This is why you get vegans with serious health issues who feel guilted into sticking to the diet despite their body not being able to tolerate the food or the lack of nutrients.

>>13236818
Don't need to, and neither did any of our ancestors. They ate an appropriate diet for human physiology. They didn't need to know about all these micro-nutrients and chart everything on chronometer to know they were eating a healthy diet.

>>13236783
I get the same thing but on the other side of the fence. My body can't digest meat properly and I'm lactose intolerant.

>>13236820
Your 'rational' argument is that it can used for giant conspiracies and turn people into unwilling guinea pigs? Really now? Are you sure you don't take /x/ a bit too seriously?

>>13236587
Stop watching vegan propaganda then retard. Eating meat isn't wrong. Don't let yourself be manipulated by people trying to control you for their own benefit

>>13236835
>bad things can’t happen
See, this is who makes bad things happen

>>13236844
There is a difference between bad things can happen and 'a specific groups of people' are consciously making bad things happen on purpose.

>>13236792

>If it's in our nature to eat meat, I don't see that as "wrong".
>If a bear evolved to the point of sapience, it wouldn't be any less moral for it to continue to eat meat. It's in its nature and vital for its health and survival.

we have moral agency. there are many things "in our nature" that involves unnecessary violence that we've stopped doing. animal flesh is no longer vital for our health and survival, we can get the necessary vitamins/minerals from supplements that don't involve direct exploitation of animals.


>I see raising animals for slaughter as a symbiotic relationship. We provide them a good life, take care of them, keep them healthy, and at some point will use them for food.
>Shitty factory farming practices are another thing, but I don't see anything wrong ethically with raising healthy animals for slaughter.

symbiotic means it benefits both parties, how is it beneficial to get slaughtered? most animals grown for meat are born through forced insemination (rape) and also they've been bred to give the best yields of meat, which means they grow at an unnatural rate and are overfed for profit. animals want to continue living, that can be proven simply because they try to avoid death. and "humane slaughter" is an oxymoron. humane means to show compassion. is avoidable/unnecessary killing ever compassionate? humane?

>>13236849
No there isn’t. See right here this is who enables specific groups of people to do bad things.

>>13236852
You're paranoid my dude. I'd tell you to go to a shrink but I'm sure you'll dismiss it as a plot of the illuminati to control your mind.

>>13236840
Who? Big Broccoli?

>>13236832
Yes, you don't need to, because you don't care about ethics. Someone who did care but for some reason could only get b12 from animal sources would only eat enough to prevent that deficiency. Thank you for abandoning any pretense of ethical concern.

>>13236840

how do you morally justify causing unnecessary suffering to animals?

>>13236850
>we have moral agency. there are many things "in our nature" that involves unnecessary violence that we've stopped doing. animal flesh is no longer vital for our health and survival, we can get the necessary vitamins/minerals from supplements that don't involve direct exploitation of animals.

It is vital for our health. Supplements are questionable at best, and the industry in the U.S. is very badly regulated. I will eat what made my ancestors healthy, not support big pharma pushing pills down my throat.

We are still the same animals we were thousands of years ago roaming the plains and hunting

>>13236855
I said I’m paranoid already, and it’s a good thing, if we are all paranoid shit won’t be gotten away with. Why do you keep going lefty, you are a fucking retard, that’s the truth you people are stupid. You lose arguments day after day, you tell yourself this is just an echo chamber even though you’re allowed to speak here too then go back to your own echo chamber where opposing thought is censored. Half the world is below 100 IQ, and that’s the half that is left.

>>13236850
You can't prove that animals want to keep living. They're not sentient enough to understand what it is to continue living. They just don't want to die, there's an important difference there. Farm animals are better of living in captivity and in return they give us food. Without humans domesticated animals can't survive and wouldn't have been born otherwise.

>>13236850
The cows are only able to provide meat due to us propagating their germ line. If you have the perspective that life's primary purpose is to produce successive generations, cattle are far more numerous and thus successful than other ruminants.

>>13236861
It's good to question the world around you. Don't let people like that guy try and subvert your opinions on matters you are passionate about.

>>13236863
Farm animals aren't "better off" in captivity. Better off compared to what? There is no alternative condition. As you say, if they were not raised for human consumption, almost all of them would not exist.

They are not saved from anything. They are bred for the benefit of humans, and during their lives, they suffer a great deal and are then killed. Humans have not rescued these animals from anything, we have brought them into a world of oppression and suffering for our pleasure. That seems pretty unethical.

>>13236587
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE BREAD!

>>13236834
The lactose thing in understand because it is a carbohydrate. But what’s the deal with not being about to digest meat? I’ve literally never heard of such a condition in my life and I’ve spent an absolutely enormous amount of time reading about our digestive system. What did your doctors tell you your disease / condition is called? Is it super rare? I really would love to read more about this, I find it super facilitating. Perhaps pancreas issues?

>>13236860

>Supplements are questionable at best, and the industry in the U.S. is very badly regulated. I will eat what made my ancestors healthy, not support big pharma pushing pills down my throat.

are they? can you link studies proving vitamin B12 supplements aren't absorbed to the human body and vitamin D supplements from algae as well? it was debunked in the Sverige vs VG debate with links to studies proving that vit. D supplements are legit. if you base your morality and actions on whether you're supporting "big pharma" boogyman then I feel sorry for you...

>>13236931
Well you do need to take more of the b12 from algae than b12 supplements from animal sources

>>13236765
>sweaty

>>13236587
Not saying veganism is either good or bad, but damn you sound like a 12 year old who just discovered his first internet documentaries.

Lysinuric protein intolerance is a disorder caused by the body's inability to digest and use certain protein building blocks (amino acids), namely lysine, arginine, and ornithine. Because the body cannot effectively break down these amino acids, which are found in many protein-rich foods, nausea and vomiting are typically experienced after ingesting protein.

People with lysinuric protein intolerance have features associated with protein intolerance, including an enlarged liver and spleen (hepatosplenomegaly), short stature, muscle weakness, impaired immune function, and progressively brittle bones that are prone to fracture (osteoporosis). A lung disorder called pulmonary alveolar proteinosis may also develop. This disorder is characterized by protein deposits in the lungs, which interfere with lung function and can be life-threatening. An accumulation of amino acids in the kidneys can cause end-stage renal disease (ESRD) in which the kidneys become unable to filter fluids and waste products from the body effectively. A lack of certain amino acids can cause elevated levels of ammonia in the blood. If ammonia levels are too high for too long, they can cause coma and intellectual disability.

The signs and symptoms of lysinuric protein intolerance typically appear after infants are weaned and receive greater amounts of protein from solid foods.

>>13236916
There wasn't any condition. First it was due to the dairy and the doctor prescribed me medicine that didn't work so he suggested to cut out dairy. Then for some time it went away but then my stomach problems came back and since I was already partially vegan I took the initiative to cut out meat and thus my stomach issues cleared up immediately and my diarrhea went away. I think it had to do with the hard drugs I was doing at the time, probably destroyed my stomach. I accidentally ate dairy recently and I could feel it in my stomach so I know for sure I'm still lactose intolerant. I enjoy being vegan now so I really see no need in trying to eat meat again.

>>13236869
Questioning the world isn't the same as thinking everyone is out to get you. The previous anon said he was paranoid but apparently not enough to question what he eats or how he lives on a daily basis but saying vaccines can cause autism makes him not feel as crazy because he isn't the only one saying it, despite lack of evidence.
Then he goes on a retarded nonsensical tirade with a lot of wrongful assumptions. And I know it's literally a waste of time trying to engage with those people.

>>13237301
It's not a waste of time. You are just close minded and willfully ignorant on things that aren't readily available to you.

>>13237301.

All that fucking projecting, it’s so hard to tell where their stupidity ends and the thinking others are stupid begins. I said paranoid is a good thing, at least being skeptical, and my point was we shouldn’t trust the powers over our head offering these vaccines because in all other cases they are ridiculously irresponsible and display a lack of care towards our general wellbeing, didn’t even mention autism. And I used to be a vegan actually.
>Then he goes on a retarded nonsensical tirade with a lot of wrongful assumptions. And I know it's literally a waste of time trying to engage with those people.
The irony. It’s a huge waste of time to try to teach a lefty sense but you censorious fuckers are so destructive otherwise.

>>13236587
Jesus christ anon, those animals wouldn't hesitate to kill and eat you in the most painful way possible. At least we do it fast and relatively painless most of the time. Take some pride in being at the top of the food chain.

>>13236587
That's a personal decision for you to make. It doesn't matter that much to me. But if it matters to you, you should act accordingly.

>>13237320
Those animals live on instinct, we as humans are capable of having something called sympathy and compassion, which the majority of us do. To justify your act of eating animals in the manner that an animal would do it without thinking is to think yourself no more aware than the animals you eat. You need a better argument here.

>>13237305
Not at all. Again, just a bunch of assumptions. I just don't get convince just because people say something, it has to have a logic about it, reliable evidence that support it while keeping a broad perspective. Let's take the 'vaccine cause autism' thing again as an example:
Can vaccine cause autism? Maybe.
Is there reliable evidence to support it? No.
Do people who think so keep a broad perspective? In this case of other things that cause actually be the cause of increase in autism, no.
So there you have it.

>>13237317
Both of you retards, the paranoid dude and you keep saying lefty this lefty that. I honestly don't know where you get that from but you are plainly mistaken.

>>13237332
They taste good, no greater argument exists. You want to be one so bad go live out in the forest I'm sure they would accept you.

>>13237336
disinfo shill.

>>13237336
Well basically when I call retards lefties I’m either right, and usually am, or the person disowns leftism. It’s a win to me no matter what.

>>13237340
K, gimme some evidence to change my mind then. One of the previous anon kept talking of echo chambers but apparently anyone that doesn't agree is just an agent of disinformation.

>>13237338
You might as well just be a slut with that attitude. Sluts aren't real humans.

>>13237345
But you’re not censored are you you fundamentally lacking lefty. You got to have your say.

>>13237349
Where are you even going with this? You're also having your say, like right now, don't you?

>>13237352
Yeah on 4chan which is not an echochamber like college campuses and reddit and facebook are

>>13237357
Ok? Not sure why you're bringing those in the conversation considering I go to none of those place.

>>13236610
God didn't design us. God doesn't give a shit.

some protesters were in the CBD of Melbourne right
shit you not, guy fawkes masks
tvs with "horrendous treatment of animals" that's pretty fucking cherry picked

had a nice chat with one of em

>>13237362
He doesn't know 4chan is blocked in every nation where ideas are actually suppressed.

Vegan breast milk doesn't have enough sustenance for a child. Many such cases.

I can understand vegetarianism but veganism is a cult for the upper classes with too much disposable income.

>>13236587
We’ve been over this. Mechanical planting and harvesting kills between twenty and thirty thousand small mammals per acre, every year. These animals are not instantly killed with a captive bolt gun, but they are crushed to death in their shallow burrows or ripped to shreds by whirling blades. Their atomized gore ends up permeating every single pulse, grain, bit of rice you eat. Unless you believe that somehow a cow’s life is worth more than a vole’s or a rat’s, which is totally stupid thinking as I’m sure you agree, you’re causing more suffering and animal death than if you exclusively ate beef, where you could easily kill only one cow per person per year.

It’s not the meat industry that kills the most animals per year. It’s big grain and soy.

No, only a sick freak of a vegan would eat grains and pulses and beans. It’s absolutely cruel! This is why, as an actually ethical vegan and not just a slave to big grain, you shouldn’t eat mechanically harvested crops of any kind. Imagine this little animals getting crushed, mangled, their guts spurting out in wormlike coils as they are crushed, entire families of them! Tiny little baby bunnies and voles, their eyes just opened for the first time, and the only thing they EVER saw was their poor mommy’s skull getting smashed and her brains coming out, right before that soy harvester kills them too.

Vegan people are sick freaks and they’re in a Satanic death cult - lying and saying they’re saving the planet when their soybean hunger is deforesting the Amazon and they deal much more death than a strict carnivore. All the while lying to themselves and everybody else.

Veganism is positively Satanic unless you do it like the Jain.

>>13237450
Livestock are fed with grain and soy. This entire post is pointless.

>>13237456
Many people are choosing grass fed beef which doesn’t require any grain or pulses. Others hunt, eat fish, eat lamb (which is always exclusively grass fed), chickens which often live off food scraps and bugs...

You’re killing more animals than people who eat those meats. It’s OK, you obviously don’t care if you kill animals. But I’m telling you, you DO kill the animals.

THERE
IS
NO
SUCH
THING
AS
VEGAN
FOOD

>>13237463
There is no life without death. But some lives are shorter than others, and some early deaths are a smaller percentage of potential lifespan than others.

>>13237470
Veganism is a cult without any even superficial benefits to society or the adherent. It should be outlawed.

>>13237463
Nobody eats exclusively grass-fed beef or wild game. Stop pretending anyone does that. That's a silly lie.

I'm not vegan myself but obviously a vegan diet requires far less animal suffering than any other kind.

>>13236704
>eating meat directly causes unnecessary harm to sentient beings, and since we can avoid that harm by eating a vegan diet it's basically animal exploitation for pleasure.

why is this bad?

>>13237487
That’s not true and many people eat grass fed these days. Veganism objectively causes more animal death than people who eat lamb and grass fed beef.

>>13236858
morals have nothing to do with it, animals lack moral agency and are the fore incapable of being acted upon in either a moral or immoral manner.

if we genetically engineered an animal that WANTED, actively desired for itself to be consumed, would that be better or worse?

>>13237410
How is high school?

You didn't know animals had to die for you to eat meat? What are you a retard? I mean if you know it's "morally wrong" but don't give a fuck that's perfectly fine but what kind of retard do you have to be to need youtube to realize you have to be a little bit hard on the animals to get animal products just now?

>>13237499
You don't eat only grass fed beef. No one else does that either. That's stupid, so stop saying it.

Obviously you eat chicken, pork, grain-fed beef, seafood, eggs, dairy etc. Just like everyone else.

A vegan diet requires much less suffering than a diet which includes meat. Even if you're making up this imaginary diet that includes only 100% grass-fed beef and nothing else, a vegan can just make up a diet which includes nothing but hand-harvested vegetables and algae-derived b12 supplements, and that would be less harmful to animals. But both are fantasies anyway.

>>13236792
>vital for its health and survival.
that isnt the case for humans though. just pointing that out

>>13236587
clearly you have no other option but to kill yourself and take as many meateaters you can with you

>>13236587
We're omnivores, regardless of how vegans try to spin information to say otherwise. It's normal to feel bad when thinking about it sometimes though, especially when you consider how many animals are slaughtered every day and the problems that can occur with it. Most people realize death isn't great and don't want it for themselves too, so inflicting it on others causes a dilemma.

I don't eat much meat anymore though I do still consume dairy almost every day. I try to make sure I never waste anything. I'd be happy to switch to lab-grown when it becomes available though, still being able to eat meat with no moral issues seems to be the best thing to shoot for.

>>13237507

humans with severe mental disabilities also lack moral agency, are they also incapable of being acted upon in either a moral or immoral maner? you tried to debunk the Name-the-trait argument but couldn't.

>>13237525
>>13237525

because I wasn't fully aware that it's COMPLETELY unnecessary to harm them.

>>13237547
Retards, psychopaths and brain dead people should definitely be culled.

>>13237557

yikes....

>>13237552
That's very debatable even if you disregard the bit in which you kill them to eat their fucking flesh, you stupid fucking fuck

>>13237532
Tons of people only eat grass fed beef. You can look this up, it’s incredibly popular. Anybody who does objectively causes less animal death and suffering than any vegan. and it’s easier and healthier to switch to grass fed than it is to become a vegan.

>>13237583

the suffering caused by eating meat is direct and unavoidable. the suffering caused by a vegan diet (rats being killed) is avoidable and indirect. there's a difference between running over an animal accidentally and running over an animal for sensory pleasure.

>>13237583
No, you're lying. You can't prove it at all, because you made up this claim out of thin air. No one exclusively eats grass-fed beef.

And again, if you're talking about impossible fantasy diets adhered to by literally nobody, then a vegan diet of exclusively hand-harvested vegetables would be ethically preferable.

A vegan diet is the best way to reduce animal suffering. I'm not vegan myself and yet it's still so obvious.

>>13237597
Vegans who eat grains or pulses are killing animals as surely as any meat eater. And many more of them.

>>13237603
Vegans are killers. The only way to avoid this would be to adopt strict Jain dietary practices.

Veganism is no different than any other cult,they just can't shut up about their life style and how everyone needs to convert.

>>13237612
Isn't it weird to keep saying things that you yourself don't even believe?

A vegan diet is the best way to reduce animal suffering. You know this, but you're just mad at vegans and so you want to concern troll them. It's silly.

>>13237636
>A vegan diet is the best way to reduce animal suffering.
Only if you completely avoid mechanically harvested and planted food. If you don’t, then eating grass fed beef provably causes fewer animal deaths and less suffering.

It may turn out that eating whales is even less cruel. One whale can feed hundreds of people for a year.

>>13236861
Excellent post

>>13237636
>you need to kill 4 and a bit cows to make 1mil calories of milk
have you vegans ever been to a dairy farm?

I'm not vegan because I don't want to be vegan. Vegan missionaries are more fucking annoying than people trying to turn straight people gay.

:^)

>>13236587
This picture says a lot about our society

>>13237666
Again you're talking about irrelevant fantasy diets. No human eats only grass-fed beef and nothing else. That's idiotic and impossible. If you don't eat only grass-fed beef (and no one does), then a vegan diet provably causes fewer animal deaths and less suffering. Ergo, a vegan diet is the best way to reduce animal suffering. A specialized vegan diet of hand-picked vegetables and fruit would even be superior to the impossible grass-fed beef only diet if your concern was animal suffering. So why don't you advocate that? Obviously because you don't care about consistency or ethics, you just dislike vegans and want to stick it to them somehow.

You, like all other non-vegans, eat poulty, pork, dairy, eggs, and seafood. And of the livestock you eat, most are fed with grain, which requires even more resources and, presumably, animal deaths.

You don't care about animals, you just dislike vegans and want to accuse them of hypocrisy because it makes you feel good. This is obvious. You are transparent.

>>13237731

OP here, I used to be exactly like him, trying the low IQ "ha! rats are killed in harvests! gotcha!" arguments against vegan but turns out it's a weak argument. it's not an argument at all.

>>13236587
>tfw no bread gf

>>13236587
Imagine voluntarily seeking out propaganda

>>13237636
>680 calories per litre
>1470 litres = 1mil calories
>30 litres per cow per day
>49 cows can produce 1470 litres in 1 day
>vegans believe 4 in every 50 cows die giving milk each day

Daily reminder that any OP with "bros" in it is a shitpost. Scientifically proven.

>>13237883

cows don't just magically voluntarily give megatons of milk in seconds. the cows need to be impregnated to produce milk, the calfs that are later born male are sent to the meat grinder because they don't produce milk. the dairy cows also need to eat more food (food that had to be grown, that possibly had rodents killed) to produce the milk.

come on man, you can do better.

>>13236587
We are animals bro, wolves eat sheep, tigers eat deers, cats eat birds, humans eat cows

using knifes and spoons are a product of technology thanks to us(humans) being smart animals, but that doesnt make us less animals

>>13237940
your reply is filled with speculation. cows eat grass. grass pretty much grows for free if you live in the right place. and fuck rodents. if you are going to include rodents you might as well include insects and that would make your graph blow out to show spudfuckers kill more life than someone living higher up the food chain.

>t. guy who fed thousands with 5 fish

>>13237996

how is it speculation? a cow won't produce milk if it hasn't been made pregnant.

>>13236587
grown up, ignore vegan propaganda.

You're a fucking retard

>>13238032

if it can logically be proven that your moral axioms are inconsistent, does it matter where that proof comes from?

>>13238041
veganism is pointless, it's all "I feel bad because I'm a pussy faggot week kneed grass munching leaky vagina."

veganism is a luxury. not eating meat does not reduce suffering, and once an animal is dead it never suffered because to have suffered one must be alive to remember the suffering.

NOOOOOOOO I DON'T WANNA BE BREAD!!!

DON'T SLICE ME NOOOOOOO AAAHHHHH!!!

>>13238073

arguments as low IQ as those make me wanna go vegan...

>>13237819
Gosh how old are you? You Sound Like 16 year old faggot With nearly No real Friends in high school

>This has a green vegan packaging, it must be healthy, low fat, heart healthy guys. Meat gives you cancer, increased BP. Watch cowspiracy, the antibiotics the poor cows, you are going to die from clogged arteries at age 13, stop eating meat racist sexist

Plain and simple, vegan diets make you feel like crap after a long time. Vegan diets are the diets for the plebeians of the modern day.
>Meat is pushed in your face, meat industry sponsors so much meat ads
Anyone without biased perception will realized veganism is shoved in everyones faces this decade.
Enjoy your suboptimal health and mind.

>>13236802
>as long as your testosterone levels are not below the "average" then you have no need to supplement
Speaking from experience, little "man"?

>>13237731
>eating grass fed is a “fantasy diet”
Vegan killer cope. Keep on murdering the voles, mice, chipmunks, moles, and telling yourself that somehow cattle are worth more than their precious lives.

>>13237087
so you're a schizo

>>13236587
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLk5AAKRem8

I rarely (read: never) see vegans talking about the parasitic form the present vegan culture takes - MUST TAKE - to be feasible in the domain of agricultural infrastructure.

Whenever one meets a vegan who advocates for everyone to follow their lifestyle, it's prudent to ask them to roughly lay out a plan for non-animal-derived mass fertiliser production that doesn't involve destroying the water supply with synthetic fertilisers. It's hilarious watching them realise that their lifestyle is partially propped up by literal waste shit from the animal industry

humans have been eating meat for 2million years, cooking and eating meat is what made us human.

I cannot understand why vegans just don't get this

>>13236858
ask that to a lion before it jumps on a gazelle lol

>>13236663
The pointed teeth thing is a dumb argument. Livestock eat meat sometimes and their teeth aren’t pointed. Pitcher plants and mushrooms eat meat and they don’t have teeth at all.

>>13237087
>There wasn't any condition.
>I think it had to do with the hard drugs I was doing at the time, probably destroyed my stomach.

Yikes! Do vegans really?

>>13238449
They do, but they won't stop shitposting because they enjoy the appearance of moral superiority. Why do you think they're using so many gaslighting tactics in this thread?

>>13238449
Maybe veganism is the dawn of a new species. In another million years after they have been raising vegan children, a new super malnourished race of humans will exist. With all sorts of chronic medical issues right from birth. And well push to keep them out of our medical insurance plans to keep the costs down.

>>13238380
Your sole motivation for being in this thread is coping with the frustration and feelings of inferiority that vegans have inflicted on you. You feel attacked and judged, so you lash out to try to defend your lifestyle. It doesn't have to be this way. Let go of your retarded concern troll arguments and admit the truth. You don't care about animals, you dislike vegans, so you make up bullshit non-arguments in a pathetic atttempt to get under their skin.

Or just kill yourself instead, whatever. And again, I'm not vegan, but I can easily see how you're making a fool of yourself over and over.

>>13238334

none of those are concrete arguments. which specific nutrients is it impossible to get on a vegan diet though? you can get everything except B12 and vitamin D (and on rare occasions iodine).

>>13238454

so what's OK for lions is OK for humans? lions are obligate carnivores (they die if they don't eat meat) and they don't have moral agency.

>>13236704
>“sentient” beings

all animals go to hell

>>13236663
teeth is the weakest argument since human teeth are exactly like fugivore monkey teeth, in fact our canines are much weaker than those of monkeys

here a frut eating fish with eerily similar homolog teeth

>>13236610
>God
Your containment board is over there >>>/his/

>>13236858
>unnecessary
Implying I don't need food

>>13238834
humans die if they don't eat meat, just very slowly.
You ever see a kid with vegan parents?
if you dont want to grow up to be 5'2 with grey skin you have to eat meat.

Most vegans grew up eating meat and went vegan later on.

The lion is an example that shows nature does not have morals, cows suffering isn't okay but gazelles suffering is?
Are you saying cows suffering isn't okay simply because we have the ability to not immediately die if we don't eat cows?
are you some kind of species traitor? you care more about the feelings of a creature that can't understand what their feelings even are rather than keep your own species healthy?
I wonder how far that morality of yours would get you if you were planted a few thousand years ago in Europe during the winter.
this morality you have for other species is in your head.
I think vegans piss people off because deep down there is some primal programming that knows you wouldn't make it, worried about a cows feelings fuck sake, while there are humans being murdered, starving, dying of disease.

Veganism is the pinnacle of a pampered pussy that has lived in privilege his whole life, you are so carefree and unaware to the horrors and cruelty of reality thanks to the sweat and blood of your ancestors (who ate meat to survive) that made the civilization you live in possible, and you use that immense privilege and gift to bitch and whine on the internet about a fucking cows feelings.

grow some balls, life isn't fair and suffering exists.

>>13236894
>>13237861

>SHE
>gf

That's a man baby.

>>13236663
Look at this vicious carnivore with his pointy teeth!@@

>>13238915
If people are pissed at vegans they are projecting their own guilt and lack of responsibility for their own actions. Like yourself, that and your obvious virginity

>>13237700
Yes, like the ones that rip away the young for veal and put down the ones that dont make milk? The land cleared to make their feed and pasture? The pesticides and tilling involved in these processes? These are literally the numbers the USDA gives

>>13238915

>humans die if they don't eat meat, just very slowly.
>You ever see a kid with vegan parents?
a vegan diet isn't inherrently unhealthy for you if you take proper supplements. you won't slowly die. you haven't named any specific nutrients. please name the nutrients which you cannot gain on a vegan diet with proper supplementation (which is usually just B12, and vitamin D from algae).

>The lion is an example that shows nature does not have morals, cows suffering isn't okay but gazelles suffering is?
the lion does not have moral agency, we do however and it's up to you whether you want to cause unnecessary harm or not.

>I wonder how far that morality of yours would get you if you were planted a few thousand years ago in Europe during the winter.
this morality you have for other species is in your head.
we live in modern times where killing animals is no longer a necessity for survival.

>grow some balls, life isn't fair and suffering exists.
yes, and if you don't care about reducing it with a simple lifestyle choice then you are a sociopath.

>>13236783
There's vegan formulas for infant's with allergies out the ass ... science could formulate something vegan for you too, it just wouldn't be wholefood.

>>13236587
Don't be such a faggot.

Vegans are horrible people and you should not follow their example.

I fucking love tormenting these fuckers to make them triggered. One time i grabbed a live chicken, placed both hands on the neck and pulled at it so hard that I literally decapitated the chicken with my bare hands, causing the body to start trying to fly uncontrolably and spewing blood everywhere. All of this in front of a crowd of vegan protesters that watched bewildered and terrified! I proceeded to rip the feathers off the chicken, clean the guts out (throwing them at the fucking feets of the crowd) and placed it on a spit and barbecued it over a fire in a metal barrel I started with some wood branches, some straw and a box of matches. The crowd kept booeing and screaming at me, but they did not dare to invade my farm property because that would gove me the greenlight to shoot them with my rocksalt buckshot shotgun, and vegans are far too much of a bunch of cowardly pussies to take a risk like that to defend their stupid ideals.

In the end I kept on laughing at them while I roasted the chicken and proceeded to eat it in front of them, tossing the bones at the crowd and telling them I would kill another for dessert if this one does not satisfy my hunger.

Bottom line is: vegans are pussies and you should not respect cowards.

>>13236792
Nature is a shitshow of suffering, most of which needs to be eradicated.

We can do better than nature and it is our responsibility to do so. Lets be as gods and create a garden of Eden on earth, with no predators.

>>13237545
Omnivore means we can. It doesn't mean we must.

>>13239105
so, in your head, a diet that REQUIRES supplementation is natural and good?

>>13239169
Plea to nature. Fallacy. We are humans, we are produced by nature, anything we find ourselves capable of doing is natural. Our consciousness allows us to reflect on our behavior and make decisions beyond mere instinct.

>>13239180
Not that guy, but...
You are a fucking moron.

>>13236587
Veganism is a political ideology.
The vegan claims killing an animal for food is morally wrong. Is this a claim of objective morality?

>>13239180
You are misusing that fallacy, eating meat because we have tons of documented evidence proving we have been eating it for 2 million years without issue is not appeal to nature fallacy.

Just because your consciousness makes you "believe" you can cure yourself of a disease doesn't make the disease go away.

You can't cause changes in physiology through sheer force of will.

eating meat in that context is an educated, rational decision based on observable fact and history, what we do know, is that there has never been a human civilization that was totally vegan.

If we were meant to be vegan, why do we like the taste of meat? why are there cave paintings of people eating meat? why are there remains of animals in the skeletons of cavemen?

if eating meat causes heart disease, why hasn't heart disease been an issue until the past few decades?

If meat is bad for you, why do places with the highest life expectancy all have diets high in pork and fish?

you can't answer any of that because you are a retarded vegan that can't accept reality.

>>13237509
Great, now that I'm strong enough to fend the priests of sitting down feels a lot better.

>>13236587
It's not hard to have a healthy vegan diet. All of your meat eating arguments are idiotic and childish.

>>13237418
>pretty fucking cherry picked
What are you even saying? You don't need to cherry pick animals in factory farms are treated horribly from birth till death.

>>13237434
Veganism is cheaper than not. It's only those ' transitional' foods that are expensive.

>>13237450
>kills between twenty and thirty thousand small mammals per acre, every year
That has nothing to do with the rest of the animals that are killed in factory farming. Factory farming should stop then maybe we can address a better way to plant crops.

>>13237450
>where you could easily kill only one cow per person per year.
Why are you so retarded?

>I was willingly watching literal propaganda and somehow I got brainwashed. Wat do?

>>13237469
Vegetables, fungus and fruit?

>>13236704
plants are sentient too, why kill them?

>>13237700
They still kill dairy cows you know. Also the sores they get from being pregnant constantly must hurt then. But taking their child away after making them pregnant over and over again seems like hellish torture not just physically but emotionally as well.

>>13237714
>The fandom is horrible so I don't like that show anymore

>>13236916
not who you're talking to, but people with lyme disease can't eat meat

>>13237994
>we're the same as other animals dude
>We don't have the option to stop killing them. There's no way we could change ourselves or make a different choice because we are animals

>>13238073
>veganism is a luxury
The animal products we produce now is not sustainable. Eating animal products is the luxury

>>13239337
Still haven't stopped reproducing though we have the choice.

>>13238334
Bad vegan diets are unhealthy just like any other bad diet. This isn't an argument and everyone already knows this.

>>13238437
>Whenever one meets a vegan who advocates for everyone to follow their lifestyle, it's prudent to ask them to roughly lay out a plan for non-animal-derived mass fertiliser production that doesn't involve destroying the water supply with synthetic fertilisers
That's because it's a lesser issue compared to the suffering of animals i factory farming. Your little autistic nitpicking is nothing other than attempt to make other people feel bad and that's pathetic.

>>13238449
>We have to do everything our ancestors did. That's why we still fling shit at each other and rape.

>>13238915
>if you dont want to grow up to be 5'2 with grey skin you have to eat meat
That's not true. Most meat eaters are nutrient deficient in America anyway without even knowing it.

>>13239359
>Your little autistic nitpicking is nothing other than attempt to make other people feel bad and that's pathetic
Oh the irony

>>13239148
You say they're horrible but you act like a horrible person.

>>13239380
It's ironic that I'm saying that he didn't want to have a real conversation with them? He just wants them to feel like shit and isn't trying to have a productive talk. It's just childish.

>>13239382
>no u

>>13239382
>You say they're horrible but you act like a horrible person
I AM a horrible person too, but at least I don't pretend not to be one while trying to take the moral highground!

The protesters in question were surrounding my fucking ranch, a small family property, and insulting my family with all sorts of profanities, simply because we raised farm animals for our own sustainance!

They made my little girl cry by calling her a monster and a murderer!

Some people would cower inside the farm house with their family and wait for the angry mob to leave, but not me! I grabbed my shotgun, loaded it with rocksalt buckshot and went over to the mob to confront them using the most effective method I could make use of legally: psychological warfare.

So yeah, I take no pleasure in violently killing chickens, I usually take great care to ensure they don't feel it coming at all, but the aituation demanded brutality and so I did what I had to do.

Now, do you think any of those pussies dared stepping into my property and facing me with my rocksalt buckshot? NOPE! They just stood there terrorized as I killed the chicken in front of them, spilling blood all over their stupid faces!

Since then they did not DARE coming back to protest on my property, choosing to move on to more cowardly neighboors properties so they can bully them with no repercussions.

Bottom line is, if you want to act like a savage you better be ready to be treated as one.

>>13236587
Farming and eating meat is more humane than sending humans to war but we do that all the time
you're fine

>>13239377
how does that change what that claim says?

>>13236744
ok nice

>>13239479
Cool larp

>>13239615
Not like it’s unheard of for the left to take out their aggression on the working class

>>13239621
Sneed mccletus is a murderer. How would he feel if i slit open a human in front of a crowd of people?

Its for sustenance!!!

vegans shouldn't have kids if theyre the 'ethical' type.

>>13237996
>cows eat grass

97% of cows are grain-fed, not grass-fed.

Grass-feeding isn't sustainable because it requires a shit-ton of land and our demand for beef is too high.

>>13239005
>if people are pissed, they project
Do you have any other argument? People can be pissed without projecting you absolute MONGOLOID.
This site is not allowed for underage. Go back to school faggot, holy shit.

>>13239240
absolutely based.

Vegans are retarded. The healthiest people eat meat in their diet.

>>13238834
and we are obligates omnivores.
What do omnivores eat? Meat.

>>13239293
>first stop killing millions of them
>only then we stop killing thousonds of them!
kek

>>13239479
based alphachad

>>13237545
This
>>13239163
I've never seen a physically healthy vegan. Balanced diet is the way to go and only Amerimutts seem to be predisposed to going for meat heavy or meat abstinent diets.

>>13236587
Eating meat is natural and normal
The size of our population and the distinguishing features of our culture are unnatural and wrong

Stop rejecting your natural self in the face of an unnatural society, instead, reject the unnatural society that lead you to reject yourself in the first place

If you’re worried all of your food is sourced unethically, raise your own chickens and grow your own food. That is the true way a civilized human should live.

>>13236587
Try killing a animal and eat it you Will probably enjoy it

>>13239834
>OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID THAT

Real mature, nigger

>>13239941
Rape is natural, go into the streets of Monrovia Liberia and let people be natural inside you.

>>13236587
>been watching youtube videos on vegan
thats a major red flag

>>13240163
Meat is what let us become what we are today, If you want to live in the savannah being a braindead animal living meal to meal with full hunger in swing on a regular basis more power to you, you should do it. Get a lobotomy and go live in the woods.

>>13240163
Rape is immoral and wrong because the victim is not consenting.

>inb4 "aNimALs arEn't ConSenTINg 2 b EATEN!!!1!1!! REEEEEEE"
Animals are animals though. If you want to extend them the same rights and privileges they should also be paying taxes and going to jail when they kill other animals.

>>13239240

you're just assuming that something we've done before is good for us. I'm still waiting for you to name a single nutrient (other than vitamin B12 and D) essential for our health that cannot be found on a vegan diet.

>>13239716
>our demand
fuck off hippy, plenty of grass fed beef where I live. So don't lump me in with whatever 3rd world shithole you live in.
>>13239323
>pic related

>>13238030
I think they've made cows that can lactate pretty regularly

>>13242422
No. You can force a cow to lactate with hormone injections, but that's illegal most places. They won't start until they've had a calf. Then they won't stop until you stop milking, but you really need to give their udders periodic rests if you want to continue getting good volume. So the best way to run a dairy farm is to have the cows calve a couple of times a year and make most of the calves into pet food when they're five to ten days old.

>>13239281
I worked in an abbatoir for about 2 years
all their clips of cow slaughters looked like messy procedure
ours was to lead the cow in "calmly", once its in the box the head gets locked in place and we blast it with a pressurised air stunner
a couple of signs say that its unconscious(and shouldn't feel any pain, that's the theory at least) like glassy forward facing eyes, no breath, legs drop from under them
then it gets rolled out onto a table with shock panels to immobilise it if needed(the hind legs thrash like a MF, not the front though)
then the throat gets slit
and bam, the cow is halal certified, at least in Australia

in their clips the cows would walk in and theyd get bolted all willy nilly, no head restraints or anything
that resulted in a not dead cow that'd thrash around on the box
it looked at a lot worse then what it usually is(which to be fair isn't exactly pretty)
our
another clip was on a pig farm where the mothers are restrained in cages while the piglets feed on milk
I recall another callout explaining that these are for the piglets safety, not to imprison the pigs

they had some stuff on chicken farms but from what a mate of mine told me those are actually pretty nasty

>>13242464
I've been to a few Australian abattoirs as a contractor, and they've always been strung up after stunning and slaughtered while upside-down. Rolling it onto a table sounds very inefficient.

And, of more interest to those worried about animal well-being, they're always stressed as all fuck when lining up to be slaughtered.

>>13240147
Your Argumentation still remains Shit If you call me a nigger

>>13242541
that's step two, in my experience
the initial slaughter happens on a table
the throat slit almost ear to ear, veins, arteries, throat and oesophagus. the works
then the neck is opened up, oesophagus closed with a clip, and the heart slabbed to speed up the bleeding
meanwhile a chain with looped around, then the cow will be lifted up by it back hoof(right hand) and deposited on "the chain" where it goes into processing

>>13239359
What do you mean? The procurement of adequate farming resources is absolutely IMPERATIVE to supporting a global food industry. There's nothing nitpicky whatsoever in chastising vegans for being unable to address the looming mass food shortage the implementation of their lifestyle would otherwise lead to.

>>13238849
Oh cool a living nightmare thanks for posting.

>>13242689
No one believes you actually care about sustainability.

>>13242297
zinc

omega 3

iron.

Another thing vegans cannot rap their heads around is bio availability.

>>13242928
>Bio availability

Actually, and unironically this. In Most cases the bio availability of Vitamins in veggies are rellay Bad.
When vegans Tell you Something hast mich of this or that, they dont Tell you, or they dont know, that the bio availability ist Shit.
Carrots dir example dont have much Vitamin A. In fact it's nearly nothing. Because the bio availability of Beta Carotin is so low.

That's why vegans need to eat really huge portion sizes to fully (on Paper) meet their requirements

>>13239915
>I've never seen a physically healthy vegan.
what? most popular vegans are athletes
>Balanced diet is the way to go
yeah, but balanced means eating all the stuff you need (which is in plants, also where the animals we eat get them) and not picking everything in walmart once contrary to popular belief. we need cowmilk as much as dogmilk.

>>13241298
>If you want to live in the savannah being a braindead animal
funnily enough the cultures eating the most meat are dirthut africans while the ones eating none are asians which are considered to be the smartest

>>13243186
Meat consumption is very low in Africa. It's too expensive.

>>13242732
I have complete confidence in my sincerity. If I wanted to attack vegans shallowly then all of the common criticisms of feminine, corporate, managerial aesthetics would be much easier to pull off. Contrary to what the cliquey vegan proselytiser psychology may believe, I do in fact care about 'sustainability' - ie, not suffering a famine.

Vegans wonder why they're so reviled when they immediately interpret any challenge to their authority as insincere. Truly amazing

>>13243250
No, you don't care. You are lying, and not even close to convincingly.

>>13243119
>>13242928

source with specific numbers?

>>13243245
i meant tribes like the Massai who only eat meat and drink milk and blood basically

>>13243186
Reading too much into it, I was just insulting you.

>>13243250

stop lying to yourself. the ratio of water and cowfeed to cow flesh produced is insanely shitty and unsustainable. and if you think "hah! grassfed beef! gotcha!" is an argument then you should type in google how much land is needed for 1lbs of grassfed beef and how many people currently live in the world.

>>13238437
>>13239359
>>13239380
>>13242689
>>13242732
>>13243250
>>13243263

>'here is a certain "issue x", here is why it is important and vegans don't care about it which is irresponsible'
>'STOP BEING INSINCERE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT ISSUE X'
>'yea I do, here is why, stop being dumb' >'STOP LYING'

these leaf munching fucks and their defenders are so out of touch. Delusional. this exchange is fucking ridiculous lmao

>>13237731
>No human blah blah blah
I only eat grass beef and eggs from the chickens i myself raise.
Consider your immoral highground lost. Bend over and concede

Why should i care about the feelings of animals when i dont even care about yours?

>>13243292
>'here is a certain "issue x"
>that I don't actually care about at all but bring up only as an insincere nitpicking criticism against vegans while I continue to eat factory-farmed meat and dairy on a regular basis

>>13243269
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provitamin
Beta carotene, which ja the Vitamin A source of carrots actually only gives you 1/6 of Vitamins A of the amount of carotene you consume

>>13243327
seethe more, loser. Seeing shit like this just makes me despise vegans more. And >>13238437 has given me an actual interesting thing to look up rather than spaz babble about MUH SINCERITY and MUH NITPICKING

>>13243186
>Asians
>No meat
Just leave the Threads please

>>13243327
This is what we call "mischaracterization." A common deception technique used by ideologues, narcissists and other self-absorbed mental children

>>13243352

so you're saying eating carrots is the only way to get vitamin A?

>>13243327
Kek, like I said - I love watching people like you seize up and start the insincerity mantra when your views get challenged. It's so obvious that this poster is an avant-teen or Gen X'er as well, the two demographics most obsessed with 'authenticity'. /ck/ veganposters are, unbelievably, more myopic than the real thing sometimes.

>Listen guys, the person talking about potential famines isn't sincere or authentic. Come and join the oh-so-real plastique patron saint-anointed $$$ vegan cause and protest big meat with me!!!

Notice how vegans are always effeminate and weak? It’s because they’re low test to begin with but once you mix in a vegan diet they become semen extracting, robotic skeletons. No man with a healthy amount of testosterone would ever be emotional enough to care about the life of an animal. Only faggots are that sympathetic. Save your feeling for your loved ones but I doubt you have any since no one would love a pathetic “man” like you

>>13243371
Here's how prove your insincerity in one second: if you learned of a foolproof method of producing non-animal-derived fertilizer, you would continue to eat meat.

You do not eat meat because you believe that it's necessary to prevent global famine. You're just mad at vegans and looking to poke holes in their worldview. This is plainly obvious.

>>13243354
Nah I'm not vegan. It's just very obvious when people get emotional about the subject and start making retarded insincere critiques.

Obviously you don't care about sustainability, you're not going to look up information on this subject because you're interested. You're going to look for new ways to attack and troll vegans because you don't like them.

>>13243421
Wasn’t the vegan mad at meat eaters and trying to poke holes in their world view first?

You’re like a lefty who gets defensive over having to see politics where they don’t belong, a hypocrite

>>13243428
What's sustainable is getting rid of toxic human assets, people who don't produce more value than they consume.

>>13243362
>Reading comprehension
The absolute state of vegan

>>13238437
You do know that synthetic fertilizer is industry STANDARD right?

>>13243421
Totally delusional. It doesn't at all follow that in this hypothetical, because I discover a way of circumventing fertiliser production issues, my concerns with veganism are allayed, or my certainty in it as a lifestyle is so strongly assured that my convictions change.

A thought process analogous to this would be a moderately experienced computer user concluding that their faulty computer simply SHOULD and MUST be working correctly, merely because they have confirmed that it is in fact plugged in properly.

Yes, I love poking holes in the worldview of vegans because they're myopic, defensive, obsessive manchildren who project their own dogmatism onto people. But that doesn't mean I'm not sincere about, you know, not wanting myself or others to starve to death from famine.

>>13243501
If lefties had self awareness they wouldn’t be left

>>13243484
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Commercial agriculture uses mostly synthetic fertilisers. That's not my issue. My issue is present agricultural infrastructure's inability to support the surge in demand for synthetic fertiliser if veganism became commonplace.

In other words:

(1) Is current synthetic fertiliser production sufficient to cover the void left by organic fertiliser in the absence of animal farming byproducts

(2) Is current synthetic fertiliser production sufficient to accommodate the increase in arable land use which would result from a near-universal defection to veganism

(3) If the answer to (1) or (2) is 'no', where are the proposals for expanded ammonia (and other synth. fertiliser ingredients) production?

(4) If there is an answer to (3), is there any assurance that explosion of synthetic fertiliser use (and the associated manufacturing process) won't have any deleterious side effects, especially when paired with climate change?

>>13236587
There's a reason why our guts got smaller than other animals while our brains got much bigger. We spent millions of years living on meat. Meat made us into what we are today. We didn't die out because all we had was meat, we fucking kicked butt.

>Barry Groves: Homo Carnivorus What We Are Designed to Eat
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn5zdWucv6I

>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0895435617313756
>There is an escalating debate over the value and validity of self-reported dietary intake as estimated by Food Frequency Questionnaires and other forms of memory-based dietary assessment methods. Proponents argue that despite limitations, memory-based methods provide valid and valuable information about consumed foods and beverages and therefore can be used to assess diet-disease relations. In fact, over the past 60 years, thousands of memory-based dietary research reports were used to inform public policy and establish the Dietary Guidelines for Americans. Yet, despite this impressive history, our position is that memory-based dietary assessment methods are invalid and inadmissible for scientific research and therefore cannot be used in evidence-based policy making.

>>13243501
Yes, I'm sure you would come up with some other reason to reject veganism. Of course your convictions wouldn't change, because they had nothing to do with the fertilizer issue in the first place. That's why it's an insincere nitpick and nothing more. No shit.

As soon as one argument in defense of eating meat is disproven, you would rationalize up another. You don't eat meat because you feel a responsibility to support the meat industry and ensure adequate global fertilizer supplies. At root, you just like eating meat and don't care about animals. That's why everyone eats meat.

>>13243569
Projection: "I can only visualise one thread of argumentation at a time, therefore everyone else can only visualise one thread of argumentation at a time"

The implication here is that no one else in this thread - or in society - could present me with a compelling reason to suspend my impending defection to veganism, assuming I discovered that one of my concerns is misplaced. Which is of course wrong. Because not everyone is Narcissus staring into their bowl of soy milk. For someone who whines so much about meat-eaters' 'lAcK oF eMpAtHy for animals', you're shockingly bad at understanding other people.

>>13236587
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211912419300525

>Animal source foods are necessary and missing in the diets of nearly 800 million individuals.
>ASF are the best source of high-quality nutrient-rich food for children aged 6–23 months.
>Negative impacts of livestock and ASF on human and planetary health are overstated.
>Sustainable development must consider needs of the poorest and most vulnerable.

>>13243511
W e w the irony of this statement.

>>13243595
It is ironic, a lot of what the lefties do is incredibly ironic because they have no shame preventing them from doing or saying something possibly hypocritical

>>13243605
Like how they are are the actual bigots and or how feminists are actual chauvinists

>>13243593
>we make cattle touch niggers
That settles it, meat is abuse

>>13243588
Nothing was impending, you weren't considering making any change. You're mad at vegans and want to ruffle their feathers. That's it, it's easy to see. You don't care about sustainability, that's a concern troll, a method of attack. You don't care about the health of the planet or preventing ecological catastrophes.

I'm not vegan myself, I eat animals because I don't care about them. But the mental contortions of anti-vegan crusaders are unbearably stupid.

>>13243621
We could eat meat and keep the planet if it weren’t for overpopulating niggers.

>>13243595
It’s 100% truth, lefties have literally no ability to grasp their own behavior. A lefty will for example complain about politics being shoved in their face.

>>13243621
>"assuming I discovered that one of my concerns is misplaced. "

Correct. Nothing is impending because the world where someone actually addressed my original point is still a hypothetical. Because instead of talking about fertiliser, you decided to sperg out and spend the last half-day projecting your deficiencies onto various other people in the thread and complaining about my insincerity/unproductivity despite offering LITERALLY nothing except obsessive, myopic coping strategies for your shit rhetoric.

>>13243605
The funniest thing is they don’t even know why they call themselves self aware, it’s just a little nice title they attached to their left wing feelings

>>13243643
Your whole point is nothing but a giant hypothetical.

>If, hypothetically, the entire world converted to veganism overnight, how would this new problem of providing fertilizer supplies be solved?

That's a hypothetical future scenario and totally irrelevant. Like you already admitted, it has nothing to with your decision to eat meat. You just bring it up to try to get under the skin of vegans. You're not interested in the solution to that problem whatsoever. If there was a solution, you would move on to concern trolling about something else.

Meanwhile all the actual problems caused by animal agriculture exist right now and are already causing widespread ecological damage. And you don't care about those, you still eat meat.

I associate veganism with being left, and the left are completely deluded, so I don’t trust it sorry

>>13243724
Hitler was vegetarian though.

>>13243727
So dairy is ok

>>13243681
I talk with friends and their vegan friends about the countless iniquities of the animal industry semi-frequently, and have moral quandaries about it from time to time. Do you know why? They're not massive spastics who freak out and call people liars and concern trolls for raising other questions in counter to their own views.

The difference is that this hypothetical mass conversion to veganism is exactly what universalist, moralising vegans advocate for, and is therefore completely relevant to their prescriptions, because it is - implicitly, but NECESSARILY - part of their prescriptions.

Saying 'everyone should become vegan like me' is a semantic thunderstorm, full of impenetrable clouds which contain all these ephemeral yet vitally fucking important questions like 'where are we going to get the fertiliser from?'.

I care about not causing a famine by irresponsibly advocating for mass veganism.

Veritable hallmarks of the irony-infested manchild psychology: (A) completely incapable of conceiving other minds as different from their own and (B) nauseatingly cynical and low-faith.

>>13236587
If you dont eat animals the animals will eat each other anyway
If you start eating nothing but plants the earth will consume itself faster
With no animals to eat and no plants either the final step is to just eat other people

>>13243743
The psychology of the lefty retard is one of the utmost technological optimism, it’s like a god they have faith in. They don’t worry about causing problems and just care about feelings because they don’t believe there are problems that can’t be conquered by future super technology that is right around the corner or something if only they had complete political control. They literally believe that their biases are “progressive”.

>>13243743
I don't care about your word vomit man. You type like a 16 year old fedora tipper who always has a thesaurus tab open.

The fact is, you don't care about sustainability. Stop lying by saying you do. Fertilizer production is such a dumb quibble. It has nothing to with the core arguments for veganism or your reason for not being vegan. It's not relevant.

>>13243761
If we don’t eat animals we still have to hunt or reintroduce predators which would mean more people dying to predators

>>13236704
Being vegan makes you weak. Therefore it's bad to be vegan.

>>13239621
Indeed, but this time they picked the wrong family to bully.

>>13239652
The difference, in case you are indeed too retarded to understand, is that murder is a crime defined by the act of a human being killing another human being. When a human being kills an animal it is by it's very definition not murder but rather an act of predation. Shove that in your head and stat the fuck away from me and my property unless you want me to treat you like a mentally ill scumbag.

>>13239899
Thanks mate, remenber to never back down in the face of peer pressure. When the world is wrong and screaming at you to change your rightful ways it is your duty to stand your ground and tell them to fuck off!

>>13243727
Hitler was a leftist as well, he was a fucking socialist.

National socialism is still socialism, you fool!

>>13243834
Now THIS is boomerposting.

>>13243834
good grief you're dumb

>>13243851
Says the probable lefty sub90 iq

>>13243834
National socialism is the only socialism, a multicultural socialism would result in better races working harder for the benefit of lesser races, a reverse oppression. Nationalism is the only way for world peace.

>>13243847
>>13243851
>national socialist german workers party
This is very clearly a socialist party, it is the fucking workers party for fucks sake! You retarded millenials can't read or something?

>>13243862
Not discussing that mate, just pointing out it WAS a socialist party, therefore leftist.

>>13243761
eating animals equals to eating a ton of plants though. why do you think are we destroying the rainforest? to make room for planting shit for our cows

Do ignorant American liberals really not understand that the NAZI party stands for "national socialist workers party?"

>>13244010
yeah it even has it in their name duh! just like the Democratic Republic of Korea is democratic

>>13243780
>anon explains many times why he cares about sustainability
>"I don't care about your words, you're lying because I say so"
Again, the absolute state of vegans. You know this site is for 18+ people?
And if you're not underage, I'm sorry for you.

>>13244477
Nah, someone who eats meat from unsustainable farms and blithely accepts all the ecological problems caused by eating meat does not care about sustainability. It's obvious nonsense. You sympathize with that person because you also hate vegans as he does, and so you attempt to defend his blatant hypocrisy.

>>13244058
Except it was socialism you ignorant lefty

>>13237418
I saw these faggots here in Britbong land. Took me a while to work out what they were protesting about as they only had a few laptops and no other signs apart from "Truth". I pointed out the videos they were showing of animals being mistreated in a slaughterhouse was actually illegal already here.

They didn't like that. I didn't push it because I was with my grandma and younger sister. If I was with friends, I'd like to eat chicken wings in front of them.

>>13243565
>Yeah, you're absolutely right. Commercial agriculture uses mostly synthetic fertilisers. That's not my issue. My issue is present agricultural infrastructure's inability to support the surge in demand for synthetic fertiliser if veganism became commonplace.

Range grazing is only a significant nutrient input for a subset of countries (and of debatable sustainability, I suspect depletion will start hitting on decade timescales). In Europe ranging provides pretty much zero input.

Without range grazing, it doesn't matter whether you put animals inside the nutrient cycle ... they don't generate nutrients from the air.

Only time I find Veganisum viable is if people chose to go for it and keep to themselves and maybe just outright not like factory baced farming because lets be honist, its the worst kind of shit ever devised. Some one has a genetic defect that dosent makes it imposible for them to consume it and need to eat vedgies and the like and maybe some supliments. Or be the most unlucky faggot in the world and get bit by a LoneStar Tick witch due to some saliva fuckery makes you unable to prosess any meat, including chicken and fish to some extent. Even met one person who had no idea other than 'shit if I eat meat now my body gose into fucking shock and I dont know why so I eat vedgies now' was surprised thats even a thing and probibly the reason shes got it.

Pestering people constiantly and/or making your pets/children into your weird as fuck diet shit is fucked up, eather get a pet that specificly eats plants or dont get one at all or lern how to fucking cook a regular meal for your kid or not have them at all. fucking simple shit.

>>13244526
>you hate vegans, because I say so
He gave you counterpoints why YOU as avegan ALSO don't care about sustainability, if we are using your line of reasoning.
Why are you so dumb?

>>13244900
Yeah great point, I was too judgmental. Obviously the guy who describes vegans as "feminine," "corporate," "myopic, defensive, obsessive manchildren" who have "managerial aesthetics" and are rightly "reviled", is totally fair-minded and not angry at all. No hate detected whatsoever. I only wish I had the comprehensive powers of a genius like yourself so that I could have seen this truth sooner and avoided accusing such a benevolent soul of being hateful.

Clearly you're right that the people who go out of their way to live an ecologically responsible lifestyle, advocate that others do the same, and verifiably damage the environment less on a per-capita basis, don't care about sustainability. No no, it's certainly those who continue to eat meat, make no sacrifices or changes whatsoever to their unsustainable lifestyles and spitefully attack those who do, these are the real environmentalists among us. The true measure of an environmentally-conscious mind is its overriding concern with a hypothetical shortage of appropriate fertilizer that might possibly occur in a future scenario where the entire world was to magically adopt veganism overnight. That's true prudence and conscientiousness. Not at all an utterly disingenuous quibble thrown at vegans out of spite, no way.

I'm not even vegan anyway, retard. Learn to read before you try to have arguments with regular people. Or, even better, kill yourself and spare yourself the struggle.

>>13239247
kek

>>13238997
OH WAIT THATS NOT A CARNIVORE, WHAT IS THIS VEGAN CONSPIRACY BS

>>13236858
It's not unnecessary. It's for food. I don't think morals apply when you're trying to get food.