/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>11808195
>Is 8" enough?
tee hee

I find 10" to be a bit too big for most things I am doing as a chef that is generally just cooking for myself. I have a 10" wusthof, but often find myself using a 6.5" santoku.

>>11808252
Is there even a standard size for a knife?
Why are there so many diff. sizes anyway?

>>11808396
There is no standard size, and you can move enough units to fill all the different needs.

>>11808195
For me, it's the Serradaktou, the only knife you'll ever need.

>>11808195
>buy a cheap set of knives from amazon or walmart
>keep them sharp

If they ever start to fall apart after a few years you can buy an entirely new set for $30-40. Unless you cook for a living theres no reason to buy high-end knives. Even then most restaurants worth a shit will have rotating sets of knives that are sharpened for you.

>but my sharp knife is sharper than yours!

Ok? And what, the food tastes better somehow?

I got my first real chefs knife.
I want to keep it proper as long as I can.
Am I better of with wetstones or will the more commercial ones do(like the the bavarian edge style ones)

>>11808396
I've always thought that it depends on the requirements of the chef. Generally 8" is good for home cooking if grouped with a utility and pairing knife as well.

>>11808568
It doesnt really matter. It wont make you a better cook. But always remember to spend as much as possible on a knife, especially if you need to ask questions after purchase

>>11808470
that stupid protruding corner at the heel ruins what would otherwise be an actually quite decent knife for something that is endorsed by a celebrity. better remove that quickly on a belt sander

>>11808568
Get whetstones, all pull through sharpeners are invariably shit, even thee model you specified. I had to look that up, WTF, "Bavarian Edge"???

t. actual Bavarian

>>11808828
>It wont make you a better cook.
A good knife will make cooking vastly more enjoyable, which will lead you to cooking more often which will lead to you becoming a better cook, so yes, a good knife will make you a better cook.

>>11808195
I like to cook and cut shit up too nigga

>>11809293
Can confirm, they are shit.

t. actual Shit

>>11808195
Id say 8 inches is the minimum for a do it all kind of knife now that being said its not the same in a professional kitchen than at home
>Pic related is my zwilling diplome wich im in love with deeply

>>11809419

>>11809299
Just like a nice pair of shoes will help you run faster

>>11809419
Your girlfriend has a minimum of 8 inches too. Luckily I made the cut heh

>>11809419
>my zwilling diplome wich im in love with deeply
nice knives but badly overpriced for what they are

>>11808195

Sharpen them using a stone, get a king 1000/6000 double stone. The KDS model is better than the KW-65, although a little more expensive.
Knives are real.
8 inch is fine. I have a 240mm gyuto and it is a lot bigger then I expected it to be, like the blade is the length of my forearm.

Buddy got me a knife after doing some YouTube research because burrfection was shilling it, Nexus BD1N. It was stupid sharp out of the box which was nice but this is probably the most uncomfortable knife I've ever held, handle is super slim and I got small ass hands, feels bad in a handle or pinch grip. Dulled a bit and it doesn't seem like my King 1000/6000 is doing much to it

Don't own too many knives at the moment but my favs are my Tojiro hammered gyuto and my Kohetsu AS Nakiri, though I use my Victorinox pro more than anything

>>11809792
Burrfection has shilled a couple of not so great knives unfortunately. He was a fan of a chinese brand I can't remember to the point I nearly forked out quite a bit of money on one.

I think he's a good sharpener but his knife knowledge might not be the best?

Got 400€ to lay down on something high-end-ish, although ideally not all of it.

Need a basic chefs knife/all-purpose knife either normal or santoku form, and a flexible fish knife/filleting hybrid.

Anything anyone would recommend? Zwilling, Victorinox, Giesser, Global (lolno)?

what does /ck/ think of the shun classic 8" chefs knife?

>>11809899
the vg2 series by shigeki tanaka. they're on the cheaper end of the hand-forged knives, but they're absolutely superb and easily beat takeshi saji/shiro kamo in price to performance

>>11809899
if you have that kind of spare money to spend on a knife you are probably better off asking the real geeks over at kitchenknifeforums.com.

They will probably tell you that if you do not already know which knife you want you will also not be able to appreciate and take care of a 400€ knife.

If you are serious about spending that much money and dont want a fragile Japanese high maintenance queen I'd take a look at the Lucidus chef knives that are handmade by Jürgen Schanz, one of the best knife makers in Europe.

https://messerkontor.de/produkt-kategorie/kochmesser/kochmesser-messerkontor-exclusiv/juergen-schanz-lucidus/juergen-schanz-lucidus-ii-wuesteneisenholz-juergen-schanz-lucidus/

>>11809926
the knives themselves are fine but incredibly overpriced.

the fit and finish of all shun knives is very pretty, but you pay for it through the nose. their price tags could easily get you some nicer stuff

>>11809926
The Ford F-150 of Japanese kitchen knives, in a good way

>>11810000
>>11809995
Pussied out and went to a store, 179€ for these three items lot, tell me what an asshat I was ;_;

89 for the zwilling cornelia poletto santoku
65 for the wusthof filleter
25 for the sharpener.

fuck me, but they're new at least and I needed them by next tuesday so I'm not complaining.

>>11810303
I don't like santokus, but if you do then there's nothing wrong with that.

The fillet knife seems quite similar to the santoku. I'm not sure why you bought both, it looks like anything you might want the filet knife for you could easily do with your santoku.

The sharpener isn't bad, but you did overpay for it. And also keep in mind that diamond steels like that are good for frequent maintenance but you still need something more aggressive for maintenance every few months.

>>11810303
knives seem to be decent, the santoku seems to be a bit thick behind the edge, judging by how wide the bevel is despite the relatively moderate bevel angle that German steel knives have. How does it go through onions?

Those diamond steels are shit though, I have one like it and it is way, wayyy too rough for a nroma chef's knife. It is like an 80grit stone. if you havent opened the package yet I'd try to return it.

>>11810326
>>diamond steels
hell, not even my extra-extra-coarse plate I use for flattening waterstones is anywhere close to 80 grit. You sure about that?

I am not familiar with that brand, but the DMT "extra fine" steels are great for normal maintenance.

>>11809648
If his "girlfriend" is packing 8 inches, I got bad news for you, nigga

>>11810322
I'm going to be working with a lot of european freshwater fish, hecht/wels/forelle/lachsforelle/saibling (sorry cbf googling english names) and the flexible fish knife was a must. The big santoku does not flex, will and can be used for anything else however.

>>11810346
>>the fillet knife flexes
Ah, that makes sense. It looks unusually wide and short compared to most fillet knives I see so I assumed it wasn't flexible.

>>11810360
Oh you were referring to those long, thin, narrow 14-18 inch blades with the bevels, those tend to be commonly used for making ultra thin slices of tuna or (smoked) salmon.

I wouldn't use them for filleting, even some of the weaker bones in fish can damage the fine edge; those knives are purely meant to encounter flesh, nothing tougher. I considered getting one, but where I work the smoked salmon is ordered so rarely I can make do with the filleter, it's edge is fine enough.

>>11810387
No, I was referring to something like pic related.

I do know the ones you are talking about for sliced salmon, etc, though that was not what I was referring to.

>>11810408
Ah, completely off the mark then. I do know those in your pic but considered them a red meat/de-boning hybrid knife, on occasion for fish. Meh, a knife's a knife in the end; one can using a paring knife for everything if one had the expertise/balls/time for it.

>>11810434
Here (in the US) that style of knife (>>11810408)
is usually used by fishermen. Many of them are made with hollow plastic or cork handles so you can use them on a fishing boat and can easily recover the knife if you accidentally drop it overboard, though that one is obviously made for kitchen use.

The ones for meat boning are shorter, less flexible, and the blade normally angles backward like pic related. They do work well for fish though.

>>11808195
>how do they work?
they cut.

>How do you sharpen these even?
Concrete if you are poor. Rocks if you are a cuck. Synthetic rocks if you want it really sharp.

>Are knives even real?
Yes. If the handle is plastic, there is a chance it is a fake knife without tang.

>Is 8" enough?
You can get away with a razor blade or opinel number 2. A blade as long as your palm is wide is sufficient for any kitchen task. The more important thing is the distance between your hand and the edge. But unless you are a french cuck or don't own a mandolin or slap chop, then you don't need to care.

>>11810004
>>11810006
thanx. i'm gonna pull the pin on this one.

new knife
whaddaya think?

>>11809792
I’ve got a nexus gyuto as well. I tried it on the line for a bit but same as you, the handle has a crazy taper to the bolster and the spine is sharp as fuck. Tore through my knife callous in two shifts.

Also Kings are shitty stones, but it’s not the stones fault this time. This knife hates kings, it hates Arkansas stones, and Shepton glass as well. Terrible knife.

>>11808195
The plural of knife is knives.

>>11809926
Grab a miyabi Artisan. That sg2 powdered steel is leaps and bounds better than some vg10 with a little extra molybdenum that shun yours as VGMAXXXXXX. Same price range. $150 for the 8” gyuto as Sur la Table.

>>11808195
If you're too iffy on sharpening knives yourself. You can go to a professional to do it for you

I fell for the meme and I don’t regret one dollar.

What's a recommendation for a good chef's knife without breaking the bank? Say sub $75?

>>11813336
Any of the major foodservice brands are your best buy at that price point, and will cost half that. Dexter-Russel, Victorinox Forschner, Bakers and Chefs, Mercer, etc. Don't forget to buy a sharpening tool.

>>11813336
Victorinox Fibrox of Mercer renaissance without the full bolster.

>>11813366
>>11813367
Thanks guys, I'm going to go with the Mercer renaissance

>>11813379
<3

>>11813217
a miyabi is an (attractive) option but it's bit pricey. i'm only getting neetbux and need to budget for a stone and sharpening rod, and i should probably get a decent chopping board to protect my fancy new knife.

yeah, maybe. nah, fuck it. zomg i don't know what to do!

>>11813502
What site is that and what country are you from?

>>11813557
straya
https://www.house.com.au/kitchen/knives/chefs-knives?SortProduct=PriceValue%20DESC&PageProduct=1

not many worthy options, sadly.

>>11813561
Can’t Australians use amazon again?

>>11813596
i dunno. probably. i should probably look on there too.

>>11813602
$211 AUS.
I’ve used this for about a year now and it’s fantastic.

>>11813216
Thanks.

>>11813642
thanx. in that time how often have you needed to sharpen it?

>>11813662
I use it for work so I touch it to stone pretty often. Probably once every week or so on a 6000 grit stone just to get it keen again. I haven’t had to actually sharpen to re-establish the edge. That sg2 steel is pretty good if you take care of it.

>>11813676
>sg2
i don't really understand all of that techno mumbo jumbo. i just want to cut carrots. but thanx.

i think i'm just gonna buy and live with it.
in the past when i've had to make a decision like this i usually look at all the options and then try to decide which i will regret the least but in the end i never end up making a decision. and life doesn't improve.
so now i'm just say fuck it and grab that fancy one with the patterns on the blade and super dooper metal. done.

thanx for helping me figure that out. you've changed my life, anon. much love!

>>11813698
I hope you like it as much as I do! :)

>>11813712
cheers

>>11813178
>X50CrMoV15 rather than VG10
Normie tier knife in a fancy-looking skin with some hard to clean grooves.

>>11813734
>>11813178

As long as it makes you want to use it, makes you want to learn more about knives and cooking, and you like it, then it’s a good knife. Good purchase bub.

>>11810303
"sharpening steel" is a misleading term; they're meant to hone, not sharpen.

buy yourself a cheapass stone, preferably a 1000/3000 combination stone

Just because

>>11813178
I have the same knife, with the 20cm blade. A surprisingly good knife for what it is and costs. see if you can do something to smoothen the rough wire wheel brush marks right behind the edge, they add a lot of friction when pushing the knife through foodstuff.

>>11813227
>If you're too iffy on sharpening knives yourself. You can go to a professional to do it for you
Most so-called "professionals" are hacks who will drag the knife over a fucking belt sander aand fuck up the temper. He would be better off learning how to sharpen on stones himself.

>>11813336
Try the IKEA Vardagen and 365+ series knives, those are pretty decent for what they cost

>>11814577
And it's IKEA, so you can buy some meatballs and lingonberry sauce to assemble when you get home.

>>11809435
Have you tried running in flip flops or crocks? The dampening in proper running shoes will lessen the risk of knee injuries as well.

>>11813178
impressive
very nice

I'm intimidated by stones. Will this suffice?

>>11815502
no, honing rods don't sharpen.

You can do minor edge care, but you'll never create a new edge with a honing rod.

>>11815511
I'm aware. It's a new knife so isn't honing it enough?

>>11815526
Course not. Over time the knife will dull out and a honing rod won't fix that.

>>11808195
>Is 8" enough?
Tiny chef Sara Molton addressed this question one time famously in a call-in Q&A, by showing her audience that she has always preferred a 10" in her tiny hand.
So, get what knife you want. Do what feels good to you and balanced in your hand, fits your work style, or simply fits the task you want.
Some people reach for the proverbial wrong knife for the task, traditionally speaking, because they just prefer say a different culture's knife like a Santoku for tasks they used to use a 8" knife...it's going to be preference, of course. >>11808252
Like this guy said.

>>11815526
It's enough for a few months.

>>11815690
>>11815737
How about this, then?

>>11815767
Don't ever take a dremel to your knife

>>11815502
>I'm intimidated by stones. Will this suffice?
using honing ro dlike that is more awkward than using stones, just saying. Watch a few videos on youtube (searrcch for Korin Knives, Jon Broida from Japanese Knife Imports, Bob Kramer, Global UK) and practice on a cheap knife a bit, it is really simple.

>>11815511
>you'll never create a new edge with a honing rod
>>11815690
>the knife will dull out and a honing rod won't fix that
well, that is not entirely true. Butcher keep their knives "sharp" entirely with their aggressive steel honing rods (I would rather call them sharpening steels). But those work only on very soft, cheap butcher's knives, they create a horrible, shortlives jagged edge that work more like a saw than a knive and it will fuck up the profile of your knife over time. So a stone is a hundred times better and easier.

Fujiwara FHM or Tojiro DP?

>>11815767
If you know how to use the tool then yeah, you can fix it with a die grinder.

But I doubt you have that kind of skill, so no.

>>11815767
This Lansky system I bought for $40 gives you the benefits of a stone while maintaining the precise angle for you which is a lot more difficult than the /ck/ stone faggots would have you believe. I'm convinced not 1 in 10 can maintain the precise angle for an 8" chefs knife, but this setup does it for you. The downside is, you don't get to larp on a tyrolean lederhosen modelling board as an expert knife sharpener.

>>11808568
get a whetstone or waterstone or whatever, just make sure it's a proper rock.
<500grit for demolishing metal
~1000 grit for taking out chips and gouges
2000 grit for maintenance
anything higher for autism

>>11816739
>Fujiwara FHM or Tojiro DP?
Fujiwara FKM (I assume you meant FKM, not FHM). I have both, the Fuji is much better - better grind on the blade (thinner) and better fit and finish of the handle. The steel on the DP is not so much better that the triple layer blade ought to make a great difference.

>>11816945
>while maintaining the precise angle for you
Look at the construction of that conraption and you will see that it put a different angle on every inch of your bevel. If you always clamp the blade in the same spot every time you sharpen it it will be consistent, but the angle over the length of the bevel will still change.

>>11816945
>be me
>be 13
>get sharpener kit for Christmas
>month later
>get idea
>gonna put a new edge on mom's favorite japanese made kitchen knife!
>spend hours putting a completely new edge on blade with diamond stone
>get jeweler's lens
>hone that edge down to perfection
>perfect flat edge at a perfect 17° angle perfectly polished
>awesome
>leave it on counter so mom can inspect my good work when she wakes up
>dad wakes up before mom
>he sees knife on counter
>dad picks up knife
>sharpens it in pic related
>....
>I couldn't even

Will this do for a beginner? Or do I need to go more weeb?

>>11817635
that should be fine, 1000 is more of a standard but 800 will do

>>11813602
why are you buying from their gook shit range

I've bought four knives from CA, $200 - $600 and the best one by far is the $210. was $230 when I bought it

>>11817821
There's a 1000/6000 variation but I read that a 3000 grit stone is more beginner-friendly.

I cut myself today

>>11818288
Was it a gusher?

>>11809759
>get a king 1000/6000 double stone
came here to post this.

my four main knifes are
3 wusthof classics: pairing, 8" and 10" for fine work, general work and long stroke/slicing
1 yoshihiro aogami super blue nakiri for veg prep

i also use a 1k/6k king water stone.

the aogami super steel is rad, but takes a bit more care to avoid rusting, etc. just basic wipedown a few times during prep and applying oil afterwards.

>>11817821
>usuba
why do the left-handed ones have to be 3x price reeeeeee

>>11817835
did you get the 180mm, or the 210mm?

>>11818310
no.
just an alcohol

>>11819460
210, works a treat
>>11818363
stop being a left handed weirdo

>>11817849
there are retards at work who use all manners of stone and fuck it up, even if you just spend 30 minutes watching a youtube tutorial while you sharpen your knife then you will be golden

>>11819992
>210
they only have the 180mm blade left, which probably why it's cheaper now than when you bought it. i'm very tempted but i think the smaller blade will get on my nerves after a while and i'll continually yearn for something bigger. and i'f i'm gonna spend this much i'm gonna use it for life.

none of this means anything to you, of course. i'm just thinking out loud and bumping the thread.

but i think i'm gonna go with the miyabi from house™

>>11821891
i've changed my mind again.

reee.

>>11821891
180 is fine honestly, you should go there and try it out. They have a pad for testing knives and will also recommend similar blades

>>11822907
sounds intimidating but maybe. we'll see.

>>11813235
>not cleaning immediately after cutting acidic foods
Madman

My Yoshikane. Apparently out of production now, it's 210mm Shirogami #1 with a stainless cladding.

>>11813235
how long is you blade?

>>11823170
>Man's Meat
tee hee

>>11813235
how long is your blade?

>>11823170
sexy.

>>11823170

Just trying to figure out if I need to thin it down, yet. My suspicion is not and that my sharpening technique is just less precise around the tip so delicate tasks like the latteral cute into onions don't feel as smooth.

>>11813178
Good value?

>>11813502
Why are you buying a $200 knife when your income is neat bucks?
I spent $200 on pic related, shirogami ginga. Yeah its a fuckin nice knife, but do I really need it over my X50CR15V w/e knife? No, I don't.

Get a fujiwara or Tojiro!

>>11813235
What do these things cost?

>>11813217
Powder steels are quite hard to sharpen and are more brittle than stainless or carbon blades. Not what I'd recommend for a first knife

>>11818359
I had people tell me that the KING 1000/6000 wouldn't be a hard enough stone to sharpen my 61HRC GINGA. Turns out it is great for an amateur who is sharpening weekly.

>>11808568
All knife sharpeners are shit. Even the electric ones. A whetstone or two (medium+fine grain), a strop with polishing compound and a sharpening steel for everyday use lets you hace sharp knives all the time. A lot of the "automatic" shsrpeners actually ruin your knife by rounding the edge so that after using it a few times you'll need a belt grinder or rough stone to straighten out the bevel.

>>11808396
Every kind has a purpose

>>11809423
I see you, Diplomebro

>>11808195
>Are knives even real?
No, use the side of a spoon.

im actually in the market for a new knife. what is the difference between a normal chefs knife and one of those jap ones?

>>11824966
>gaijin knife
>more durable because gaijin are barbaric and have no delicacy
>superior nippon steeru folded 1 gorillion times
>sharper and brittle because nippon chefs have technique and delicacy of a god

>>11824966
Western style tends to be thicker, heavier, softer steel. Japanese tends to be thinner, lighter, harder steel. One isn't "better" than the other, they are different tools. It's like comparing a pickup truck to a race car.

The western style will be more durable and tolerant of abuse. However, it also won't cut as easily, and it will need more frequent maintenance to keep it sharp.

>>11824984
this made me laugh

can someone explain the pros and cons of dual core

>>11824998
Pros: a fancy pattern that some people think looks cool

Cons: More expensive than a knife of equivalent performance.

should i get a cleaver with a straight edge or curved edge?

whats the difference?

>>11825093
When you say "cleaver", do you mean that in a real sense for chopping bones and such? Or are you talking about a Chinese knife which is often cleaver shaped but is not used for heavy chopping?

The former you want to have a curved blade, so it concentrates the maximum force in one spot. A chinese veggie knife should have a very very subtle curve to it that looks nearly flat but isn't quite.

The only "cleaver" like blade that you want to have a truly flat edge are those special knives for cutting handmade noodles (sobakiri)

>>11825104
wow very informative thank you anon!

I used a heavy "chinese veggie knife" cleaver recently and love the weight behind it, so i wanted to get one

>>11825119
>heavy "chinese veggie knife" cleaver
That's a contradiction in terms. If it's heavy, it's not the veggie knife.

What do you want to do with it? If it's for chopping big stuff you want a curve. If you want it for slicing (which implies it's NOT heavy) then you want a very gentle curve.

>>11825150
something all purpose i suppose, but the one typically used for meat or bones is really what i need

>>11825180
>but the one typically used for meat or bones is really what i need
"Real" cleaver often have a hole in the tip so you can hang them up on a hook.

I have a Zwilling Santoku knife and it hasn't let me down in four years. I sharpen it with a rod before I use it and maybe once every three to four months with a whetstone.

>How do you sharpen these even?
I found that if you're new to using a whetstone, you can get a feeling for a good angle by putting two coins between your stone and the knife. Should be between 18 and 15 degrees, depending on which kind of coins you use. Start with the tip of your blade, the move towards the end. Keep your stone wet, two or three drops is enough.
As for using the rod, a good approximation is the angle you have when you rest your knife against the handle. If it's not super wide, you should be good to go. The easiest way to hold it is straight downwards and slightly moving the knife along the blade as you go from top to bottom, starting with the tip.
That's what works for me but maybe someone smarter than me has a better method.

>>11823164
>not wanting a cute orange patina on your knife
>>11823190
8”
>>11824160
My experience with sg2 has been that it’s actually really easy to sharpen, and that it’s far more durable than something like vg10 on the shuns. Maybe not a first knife though, I agree.

Does anybody know of a good brand of honing rods? The shitty one I bought at the dollar tree is fucking up my equally cheap knives and I want a replacement.

$529 pl0x