/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>Low Blood Glucose
Carbohydrates in your diet supply your blood glucose. Blood glucose is a necessary part of normal human physiology, because it is the means by which your cells gain energy to function, develop and grow. It is the fuel for your gas tank. With an inadequate amount of carbohydrates your cells are left hungry.
>Hypoglycemia
A condition known as hypoglycemia can occur if you don't have enough blood glucose. This is characterized by a glucose less than 70 mg/dL, but you wouldn't be able to tell your blood glucose unless you tested it. Otherwise you can look for the symptoms of hypoglycemia. These symptoms include confusion and weird behavior, double vision, blurry vision, heart arrhythmias, nervousness, sweating, hunger and tremors.
>Ketoacidosis
Prolonged carbohydrate deficiency can result in a condition known as ketoacidosis. This happens when your body turns to fat stores for energy. Fat, though, takes energy to break down and liberate from its stores. In addition, only some cells can run on the energy produced by fat; certain organs, like your brain, need to have glucose. Your body produces ketones to run your vital processes and reserves the glucose it has for your brain and other cells that only use glucose. Ketones are produced as the energy from fat, but they can raise your blood pH. Ketoacidosis is the condition in which your blood is becoming too acidic, which can be very dangerous, even resulting in death. Symptoms of ketoacidosis include fatigue, dry skin, flushed skin, stomach pain, vommiting, nausea, shortness of breath, fruity-smelling breath, confusion, anxiety and passing out.

>>11801211
i dont eat any vegetables except potatoes and like maybe the rare lettuce on a burger and i am fine actually

>>11801211
>eat processed meat every day
cringe

>>11801218
>t. fatass carb addict

*yawn* You carb fags always do the same shit. List the worst possible scenarios that ONLY happen to like 1 in 500 of the most already unhealthy people that start keto. The only people that have to worry about any of this shit is diabetics anyway. But keep on being fat.

>>11801220
You must smell like dog shit

>>11801229
i shower regularly so i doubt it

>>11801234
*shower in dog shit

>>11801211
> avocado thrice a week
Can we discard this meme diet?

Keto blows, I'm eating anything I want instead and just eating once a day, losing just as much as I do when I'm solidly into keto except I'm not eating cheese and lunchmeat all day like some dildo.

>>11801253
Whats wrong with cheese and lunch meat?

>>11801227
Shut the fuck up, your breath smells.
Lick your hand and smell it after it dries. Now imagine your mouth isn't constantly close to your nose and others then smelling that.
Stupid, unhealthy ketolard mouthbreather.

>>11801261
Nothing, but when you're doing keto and don't feel like cooking there's only so much stuff you can easily grab and eat and it gets old fast.
If anyone here does keto and likes it good for you, but I've done it (and lost plenty of weight on it) but can't stand having such a limited diet long term, and 99% of the keto recipes trying to emulate real food suck dick.

>>11801239
>shower in dog shit
not very based, anon

>>11801229
>>11801263
is the only appeal of this keto shit to make you smell good? just shower and brush your teeth you fat fucking neets

>>11801263
Lmao, mad anon? Keep eating your fucking kike candies and pastas and sugar injected crap. Keep trying to convince yourself you're healthier than someone who eats 100% real food.

>actually thinking eating meat and vegetables can possibly be bad for you

I wish you could explain what it's like to be so fucking retarded, I honestly wish I could know.

>>11801278
I can smell your breath from here ketolard.
>u mad
Nice argument, dumbass.

>>11801324
THAT'S LITERALLY ABOUT FIBER YOU FUCKING RETARD

>>11801793
>your brain on keto

>>11801211
>/ck/
>keto

>>11801218
Everything you said is so wrong it's hilarious. You have no idea what you're talking about, but here you are leaving an essay. Let me take a couple minutes to correct this inane rambling.
>low blood glucose/hypoglycemia concerns
20-50g carbohydrates per day is the normal healthy range for keto. It is low carb, not no carb, dumbshit. Furthermore, when you are fat adapted, most of your cells and organs run on fat rather than carbs, and they do it more efficiently, too.
>Ketoacidosis
>This happens when your body turns to fat stores for energy
No, weight loss is what happens when your body turns to fat stores for energy, you massive fuckup. No matter what you eat, you have to eat less than you burn to lose weight. That goes for keto and regular dieting alike.
>Fat takes energy to break down
That's why keto works for many people; you burn more calories doing the same tasks, while simultaneously eating less because protein, fat, and fiber all have high satiety.
>certain organs, like your brain, need to have glucose
Even if you *were* eating a zero carb diet, the tiny, tiny, tiny amount of glucose your brain needs to function can be synthesized from proteins by your body through a process called neoglucogenesis.
>Ketoacidosis is the condition in which
It is called Diabetic Ketoacidosis and you have to be diabetic to get it. It's a common complication of type 1 diabetes and can be exacerbated by an incomplete, poor attempt at a keto diet.

>>11801263
>your breath smells
Your body is dying and fighting itself to process the massive amount of cattle feed you shove into it on a daily basis. You'll smell my keto breath and like it, weak sugar addict.

>>11801278
enjoy your degrading brain function since not 100% can work on ketones and your premature onset of multiple sclerosis due to accelerated demyelinization

>>11801211
I'm slightly underweight, not gullible, and neither diabetic nor suffering from drug resistant childhood epilepsy. So for me, it's not being retarded and simply consuming a non-excessive amount of calories each day. Enjoy your fad though. I'm sure it's fun throwing around abbreviated buzzwords like "keto" and pretending you've transformed your metabolism into a "fat burning furnace."

>>11801938
>neoglucogenesis
it's gluconeogenesis you uneducated retard
>diabetic ketoacidosis
you don't have to be diabetic to be in ketoacidosis you dumb fuck

enjoy your acetone breath

>>11801211
Fact: Unless you're on the anti-epilepsy keto diet you're just on the Atkins diet

it really is amazing how defensive people get over this. they were doing keto diets back in arnold's day. it's nothing new. carbs can very easily make the average person gain bodyfat and should be minimized. you dont have to piss on a strip like some jerkoff or talk about it like it's your religion, but yeah high fat and low carb diets are healthy and smart

>>11801938
How about not being an obese retard so you don't have to worry what your body burns for fuel?

>>11801966
>you don't have to be diabetic to be in ketoacidosis you dumb fuck
https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/qa/can-you-get-ketoacidosis-if-you-dont-have-diabetes
>Some people without diabetes can get ketoacidosis. It's caused by alcoholism, starvation, or an overactive thyroid. A healthy low-carb diet shouldn't cause a problem.
It literally doesn't happen unless you're already unhealthy and also fucking up your diet. Keep grasping at straws to find a good enough excuse to justify your poorfag shit diet, sugar addiction, and disgusting weight problem.

>>11801989
>the only reason to eat a healthy diet is to lose weight
No, retard. People who eat a healthy diet in the first place never get fat.

>>11801985
>carbs can very easily make the average person gain bodyfat
They're called calories, sweetie. You're not going to stay thin on a 3,000 calorie per day diet just because your carb content is low.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357
>Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.
>CONCLUSIONS: Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7096307_Ketogenic_low-carbohydrate_diets_have_no_metabolic_advantage_over_nonketogenic_low-carbohydrate_diets
>Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
>KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted.

>>11802007
>starvation
that's literally it, if you knew anything about human metabolism or basic biochem you would know, ketosis is a result of starvation
i'm fitter and healthier that you will ever be and i don't have to be afraid of pasta like some little faggot sissy

>>11801938
>more efficiently
You're getting ketones circulated throughout the body as opposed to getting glycogen directly from muscles, quite the opposite of efficient imo

>weight loss is what happens when your body turns to fat stores for energy
Not inherently. It's lean mass initially anyways

>you burn more calories doing the same tasks
Physiologically impossible

>can be synthesized from proteins
True, not remotely ideal. Virulent anti-carbers like carnivores are a bit thick in the head to say the least

>and you have to be a diabetic to get it
Not quite, it's probably the easiest way to get it though

Everyone on keto has exceptionally shitty breath.

>>11802025
and the main way that keto works is through appetite suppression, as fats are high-satiety and insulin stays flat, causing the average person to consume far fewer calories

>>11802032

Post body

>>11802015
>People who eat a healthy diet in the first place never get fat.
People who eat the right amount of calories don't get fat. It's really that simple. Being a normal weight is itself healthy, but for any other health concerns like vitamin intake or electrolyte balance that's a different topic that has nothing to do with weight.

>>11802007
So you can get it if you're not diabetic? Which is the whole point?

>It literally doesn't happen unless you're already unhealthy and also fucking up your diet
So people doing keto who are the only gross fucks doing it? Good to know. I'll go eat a nice slice of avocado toast to make you insecure about your sexuality

>>11802015
>People who eat a healthy diet in the first place never get fat
What kind of a fucking statements is this? Water is wet? Sun is hot?

>>11802039
as if i'm gonna post myself on 4chan

>>11801211
you retards and your avocado and meat diets are endangering the future of humanity, cut that shit out.

>>11802053
Then don't make hollow claims faggot.

>>11802068
imma E stat how much i want

>>11802038
>appetite suppression
>satiety
So it's literally just another fat person excuse because they have no self-control and don't stick to their diets. Good to know.

>>11801218
Glucose is produced from fats and proteins (gluconeogenesis).

Furthermore, glycogen replenishment is similar on very low carb and standard diets.

Hypoglycemia and other aspects of keto are hugely correlative with increased QoL and potentially even systematic replenishments and redesigns – an adulthood puberty. Specifically, there are increases of appetites, sensations, and flavors, and GH, reduced DHT (and plausibly increased T) …

pH is alterable with nutriments. Abundance is really simple.

>>11802032
>ketosis is a result of starvation
Ketosis is a result of the ratio of your portal insulin and glucagon getting below your livers threshold. This can and does happen without starvation. Many people go into ketosis every night.

>>11801253
>once a day
Results of casein vs. whey for fat loss and lean gains suggests that low insulin responses and consistent protein availability are very beneficial for musculature and health. (MPS via whey is an option also, but getting results from that suggests much more awareness of hunger meanings and nutrient amounts and timing, amongst also having protein [such as casein] available for absorption when between meals).

>>11801272
Actually, it's possible (even cold-) making many recipes with very fundamental ingredients (protein from powders, flavoring such as stevia, cacao, cheese, dried-ground fruits, nuts and butters, coffee, garlic … ). >>11802104

Food emulation benefits greatly from the diet's limitations, and very specific ingredients. What's listed are each great …

ITT smelly shitbreath ketolards seething

>>11802048
>being unable to grasp simple, cited information to this extreme degree
wew lad
>>11802032
>not getting to eat massive amounts of sugar and wheat is "starvation"
fatty cope

>>11802035
>Physiologically impossible
No, it's not, but you'd know that if you knew how it worked rather than spouting phrases you heard without knowing whether it even applies.
Same to the rest of what you posted. You only have half the story to anything.
> not remotely ideal
Explain what you think this means.
>quite the opposite of efficient
In burning them, not in acquiring them, reading comprehension challenged faggot.

>>11801211
I don't want to die if I get low blood sugar?

I do, which is why I don't demonize carbohydrates and sacrifice myself because I'm ignorant of science.

Lot of faggotry going on this in this thread, very little to do for real results. I've been on keto for about 5 months and I've gone from total fatass on my way to /fit/. Been doing light cardio, and the pounds keep whooshing off. Gonna start lifting seriously soon. Keto works, and it's worked for a fuck ton of people. Don't know why fatties on here are defending carbs so hard.

>>11802025
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357
>fat, protein, and carbohydrates in the four diets were 20, 15, and 65%; 20, 25, and 55%; 40, 15, and 45%; and 40, 25, and 35%.
none of those are keto or low carb. You need at least 70% fat for that.
>; they began to regain in weight af ter 12 months.
Yikes!

The regain happens ALWAYS! Like ALWAYS! This is what Intermittent fasting and Keto prevent!
A caloric restricted diet is non sustainable. IT on keto is

>>11802307
>portion control helped me lose weight
Not shit, you greasy fuck. Keto is little more than a crutch for those with no discipline, but hey if you wanna keep it up forever and pretending it's healthy, enjoy the early death.

>>11802334
>no discipline
Next you're going to tell heroin addicts to just stop shooting it up their veins.

>>11802321
>The regain happens ALWAYS! Like ALWAYS!
Yeah, it's sort of like you still gain weight when you eat too many calories no matter how many times you ate fewer calories in the past. Spooky.

>>11802307
>eat less
>lose weight
>wow the magic of keto!

This is me and I did CICO, I ate cakes like once a week and didn't even bother watching carbs

>>11802353
>he thinks stuffing his face with chips and sugar is "addiction"
Wow... no wonder idiots like you buy into keto so easily. You'll really believe anything. Hey, did you spot Santa when he delivered your presents this year? HO HO HO!

>>11802307
>Keto works
Eating fewer calories works. The "keto" part is irrelevant.

>>11802373
>>11802364
>>11802334
Eating less on keto is easy because it supresses your appetite. How is that not a benefit? How is that bad if it helps people?

>>11802334
>>11802364
>>11802373
Also explain how if your body is using fat stores for energy that isnt helping you lose weight? Why are you being such contrarian faggots? If it works for people and helps them feel better and change their lives, why be a total faggot about it?

>>11802422
Because keto is shit for long-term health and brainwashed dumdums think it's the second coming. Don't defend idiots who think it's anything more than a short-term intervention.

>>11802429
>>11802422
>your body is using fat stores for energy
Body will use your fat stores on ANY diet as long as you are eating at deficit. Even if you do keto and eat at surplus your body won't use any fat storage. It's that simple. Keto is just, "oh look, i'm doing something!", "now let me make bacon and cheese omelet with butter!, it's healthy for me you know."

>>11802362
Yeah your resting metabolic rate lowering drastically on a caloric restricted diet totally a myth, which is what supposedly causes weight regain when one is put on a normal diet. It's not like it hasn't been shown in tests or anything. Just lies by fat tumblrites wanting to justify their morbid obesity while eating oreo cake and slurp chai tea lattes.

Insulin causing fat gain has never been shown. Never! Ask any doctor! As any person injecting insulin! They'll say it's a myth.

Insulin resistance from long periods of elevated insulin caused by frequent meals and snacks, particularly those high in refined carbs is also a myth. Complete bollocks!

Thus we can conclude that insulin resistance causing even more insulin to be produced causing you to get even fatter, and eventually get type 2 diabetes is also wrong.

And Keto and Intermittent Fasting lowering your insulin resistance and even being capable of reversing type 2 diabetes is just a lie by "Big meat" to sell you more meat and diary products.

>>11802486
>another anon breaks laws of thermodynamics with his body

>>11802509
>metabolic rate lowering drastically
Are simply this fucking stupid? Really?
let me spell it out for you:
Calories OUT is LINKED with calories IN.
EATING LESS will cause you to BURN LESS (if not on Keto or IF)
No laws of physics are broken.

And the reason for that is your insulin resistance. And the only way to lower your insulin resistance is to lower your insulin levels. Which is done by keto or intermittent fasting.

>>11802509
>t. brainlet

>>11802250
why would you get low blood sugar? are you broken? do you need a RMI?

>>11802527
>EATING LESS will cause you to BURN LESS
>suddenly my heart reacquires less energy to function when I eat less
I get in now

>>11802527
>insulin resistance
Normal people don't have problems with insulin resistance. Even in the obesity capital that is the US there's only 3 million insulin resistance diagnoses per year, less than 1% of the total population.

>>11801218
>blah blah copypasta
hmm, I notice you correctly don't actually claim these things happen on a keto diet, you just helpfully toss them out here for the edification of future participants. very thoughtful of you.

>>11802549
At this point i'm sure you're baiting. This is the last reply you get from me. Enjoy it.
>Slower heart rate
>Lower body temperature
>Fatigues easily
>Harder too concentrate
>hair loss
>frequent headaches
>brittle nails
>ect...
All of these are an effect of lower metabolic rate

>>11802550
it's not an on/off switch. type 2 diabetes doesn't pop up overnight it's a slow and steady until it reaches that point.

>>11802575
Cutting 400 calories below your TDEE won't slow down your metabolism "drastically". See, all arguments you presented have to do with extremes.
>diabetes
>acute health problems
>insulin resistance
These are the people keto was designed for by doctors. Not for someone who is already healthy, even overweight or borderline obese

>>11802547
>too dumb to know what type 1 diabetes is

>>11802550
>Normal people don't have problems that normal people don't have
bold statement ferris
>Even in the obesity capital that is the US there's only 3 million insulin resistance diagnoses per year, less than 1% of the total population
that's per year. According to the CDC, as of 2017 the percentage of people in the USA with significant insulin resistance is 33.9%.
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/data/statistics/national-diabetes-statistics-report.pdf
so while insulin resistance isn't "normal" its pretty damned common nowadays, and getting more common very quickly.
The USA isn't even at the top of the list btw, last I saw they weren't even in the top 10 countries in terms of prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. China is significantly worse than the USA in both insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

>>11802632
>Cutting 400 calories below your TDEE won't slow down your metabolism
It'll drop by around 400 calories eventually. Why do you think people plateau before they reach their goal weight despite being still on their restricted diet?

>even overweight or borderline obese
But obesity is a symptom of insulin resistance!
Insulin causes fat gain. This is well documented. Even high carb low fat guy will not deny this.

What isn't well known is that long term high insulin levels causes insulin resistance. Insulin resistance will make it so that you need even more insulin.
Continuing the cycle until obesity isn't the only problem and you get full blown type 2 diabetes.

And the best way to lower that resistance is by keto or IF

Calories in calories out (CiCo) cannot explain the rebound effect, the insulin resistance hypothesis (IR) can.
CiCo cannot explain why people who had obesity for longer periods have a harder time losing weight, IR can.

>>11802679
>he doesn't know what makes type 1 diabetics get low blood sugar
hint: it comes in a needle

>>11802632
>Cutting 400 calories below your TDEE won't slow down your metabolism "drastically".
no, it will slow it down by almost exactly 400 cals.

>>11802679
its not caused by a keto diet. keto was the recommended *treatment* for type 1 diabetics before insulin was manufactured and generally available.

>>11802707
Excess calories cause fat gain.
>>11802725
Not if you have fat storage.

>>11802373
lowering insulin works. calories in/out is irrelevant.

>>11802811
>this is what fatties tell themselves so that they can avoid counting calories and eat 5k cal of butter and then complain about genetics

>>11802781
it will if your insulin is too high too often during the day. your body doesn't switch to burning fat because it is running low on energy, it switches to burning fat because the insulin levels gets low enough relative to the energy demand (signalled by glucagon). under normal circumstances this roughly correlates to "not enough energy", however insulin resistance is not a normal circumstance. if your insulin levels are too high and your food intake too low, your body simply starves trying to run on insufficient dietary inputs because the fat stores are effectively locked away by insulin, and your body slows its metabolism as a survival response.

>>11802823
>t. doesn't believe in science
do you also believe the earth is flat?

>>11802781
>Excess calories cause fat gain.
Not necessarily. You can well above the 2000kcal recommended on a sedentary life depending on what and when you eat.
Your body can choose how to spend that energy, towards your brain, towards your muscles, etc... Basically increasing your resting metabolic rate.
And yes it can also decide to store that as fat, and the main deciding factor for that is insulin!
>Not if you have fat storage.
Yes it will.

>>11802834
Look up twinkie diet

>>11802841
look up insulin

>>11802851
Insulin didn't stop the professor from losing 27 pounds in 10 weeks by eating unhealthy amounts of sugar everyday.
What am I supposed to look up again? How insuling blocks fat storage?

>>11802841
he lost a whopping 27 lbs, and it took 2 months to do it. that is what is normally described as "water weight" - he lost glycogen and its associated water. ketards brag about losing this much weight their first week, and you CICOfags angrily retort that its just water weight. but now on teh twinkie diet its suddenly amazeballs? gtfo

>>11802863
show me where he lost fat. losing weight is easy, especially a mere 27 lbs. that's just water, and the 10 lbs of fiber he shat out once he stopped gorging on broccoli.

>>11802841
>>11802863

Any follow up? I never claimed that you couldn't lose weight on it. Only that you'll have a rebound and regain a large portion of that.

Insulin resistance is what sets your body weight.

>>11802486
>"Metabolic rates"
… are effected by energy expenditures. Beyond that is [citation] …

Though there are obvious dietary increases, such as caffeine / coffee.

>Insulin
… is fat sparing, amongst other features.
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/insulin-advantage

>Insulin resistance
Is somewhat evidenced in scientifically-produced large periods of insulin response. After about 3.5hrs., it's reduced.

>>11802876
>>11802869
>>11802877
>13 kg of water weight
>b-but he will rebound
>I-I never said insulin prevents you from using fat storage(literally 2 posts ago claimed differently )

I'm not dealing with this retarded mental keto gymnastics anymore

>>11802869
>>11802876
You're suppose to lose water weight when you cut sugar and salt, he ate sugar and salt DAILY

>>11802321
They all entered ketosis. You can’t say it’s not a ketogenic diet when they did

>The regain happens ALWAYS! Like ALWAYS! This is what Intermittent fasting and Keto prevent
Can you not read? ALL of them regained wait

>muh anecdotes!!!

>>11802893
glycogen isn't fat. if you weren't a confirmed retard you'd know that.

>>11802883

>T-nation
lmao

>Is somewhat evidenced in scientifically-produced large periods of insulin response. After about 3.5hrs., it's reduced.
I'm talking about long term high levels.

If we take a look of when the obesity crisis started around 1970 and how the diet changed from that time we
>Are eating more frequently. People used to only eat 2-3 meals (No snacks as that would ruin dinner)
>A larger percentage of our calories come from carbs (We've been following the guidelines about low fat but somehow it all gets worse)
>More carbs in absolute value
>More of those carbs are refined.

It's all these factors together why we such high insulin levels ALL THE TIME.

Sure you could eat an 80% carb diet high in fibre and only 2-3 meals a day and not gain weight.
BUT!
If you have been overweight for a long time switching to this will NOT make you skinny. You need to lose that insulin resistance and that's where keto and IF comes in.

>>11802917
>You can’t say it’s not a ketogenic diet when they did
I literally did a text search for "keto" in the whole study and nowhere did they measure ketones or claim that.
When we speak about ketosis we usually mean AT LEAST 0.5 mmol/L. Ideally you'd get 1-3mmol/L

>>11802917
>They all entered ketosis
I did a search in the fulltext version at nejm and found only one occurrence of 'ketosis', in sentence unrelated to the study participants. please provide a more specific reference to this claim.

>>11802903
no, there are several sources for what is generically referred to as "water weight"
1) intestinal mass.
2) fluid retention due to dissolved minerals (salt/sugar being the main culprits)
3) glycogen, which is bound to water. glycogen in its storage form is roughly 4/5 water by mass.

the good professor on his twinkie diet would have lost several pounds of intestinal mass, possibly as much as 10 lbs if he was eating a healthy diet high in fiber, in addition to substantial amounts of glycogen. losing 20-30 lbs this way is trivial and utterly meaningless. as soon as he starts eating fiber again he'll gain that intestinal mass, and as soon as his caloric deficiency resolves he'll regain his glycogen.
its interesting he gave triglyceride numbers but not ketone measurements, since you can't enter ketosis until nearly all of your glycogen is exhausted.

the only anti-keto argument i've seen itt is about how smelly it makes your breath
really makes you think

>>11802988
even then it only makes your breath smell the first few days. once your muscles and most organs start running on triglycerides directly your liver doesn't have to produce as many ketones, and the one that makes your breath smell gets turned into glucose.

>>11801211
Wed-Fri : cured meats
No thanks, they're not good for you.

>>11802988
Confirms all anti-keto anons are self hating sugar addicts. Probably tried keto and didnt have the discipline to make it past day 3. Remained fat. Now they shill against it.

>>11802321
>you need at least 70% fat
https://www.ketodomain.com/background-keto-diet/ratios-fat-protein-carbs-keto-diet/

65 is the minimum

>>11802863
losing pounds is easy. losing fat is hard, and cannot be done in the presence of high insulin (ok, surgery). the professor never claimed he lost fat. I'm sorry you got fooled by a stunt to get his name in the paper.

>>11803033
you don't need to eat any fat to get into ketosis, I don't know why people call you ketards. its purely dependent on carbohydrate intake. or have you fuckers forgotten that eating absolutely nothing at all (aka fasting) will not only get you into ketosis, but will do so faster and get you deeper into ketosis than eating a diet of 100% fat.

>>11803012
>anti-keto anons
they're keto deniers, really

>>11803033
Close enough.

>>11803058
>purely dependent on carbohydrate intake
proteins also have an effect on it! Not as high as carbs but still high enough. Look it up.

That being said, vegan keto is indeed possible. just make sure the carbs you eat are high in fibre.

There is no metabolic advantage to keto over a standard low carb/Atkins style diet
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/83/5/1055/4649481

>being a ketobreath

>>11803114
>being on any diet
>not chewing gum for all day fresh breath

Fucking Neanderthals

>>11803069
I'm aware of the insulin index. You're right that protein has an effect on insulin levels, but it doesnt seem to have an effect on ketosis because protein raises glucagon levels. Ketosis is triggered by the portal insulin:glucagon ratio dropping below that individuals ketosis threshold. So eating protein raises insulin but also raises glucagon, and doesnt seem to change the ratio enough to push someone out of ketosis. I've eaten several pounds of meat in one day to test this, without budging my ketone readings.

>>11803069
>proteins also have an effect on it!
Not really. Protein doesnt raise your blood sugar (gluconeogenesis is demand driven not supply dricen) and the increase in insulin is offset by the increase in glucagon. You can eat as much protein as you want, as long as you don't eat carbs you will go into ketosis.

>>11802575
>it's not an on/off switch. type 2 diabetes doesn't pop up overnight it's a slow and steady until it reaches that point.
It basically IS an on/off switch (tipping point might be a better term for it though). Something needs to snap before you start developing clinical insulin resistance or full blown Type 2 Diabetes. Before that point blood sugar spikes are irrelevant to your health. The one overwhelmingly predictive risk factor for Type 2 Diabetes isn't your macronutrient ratio. It's your weight. If you've been a 5'10 140 lb man your entire adult life I would without hesitation bet all my life savings on you never getting Type 2 Diabetes so long as you never gain weight. And I would not care in the slightest if you spiked your blood sugar all the time with soda or cake or whatever other extremely high glycemic index foods or drinks you might come up with.
And same way in reverse, I would not feel good at all betting on a 5'10 300 lb man never getting Type 2 Diabetes no matter how much he avoided carbohydrates or kept his blood sugar from spiking.
Blood sugar spiking intolerance / insulin resistance are really the disease itself, not the cause of it. Way more evidence for your weight being the cause of it than the kinds of foods you gained your weight from. This sounds a little counter-intuitive but it's how a lot of phenomena work, both natural and artificial e.g. gasoline isn't going to ever *create* a fire no matter how much you pour on the ground, but if you already have a fire going then adding gasoline to it isn't going to help put it out.
http://clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/45/8/1339
>The obesity is a cause of insulin resistance rather than a consequence.

>>11803444
>The one overwhelmingly predictive risk factor for Type 2 Diabetes isn't your macronutrient ratio. It's your weight
other way around, the overwhelmingly predictive risk factor for obesity is your insulin resistance.
> would not feel good at all betting on a 5'10 300 lb man never getting Type 2 Diabetes no matter how much he avoided carbohydrates or kept his blood sugar from spiking.
If he keeps his insulin low, he wont get type 2 diabetes. We now know how type 2 diabetes happens, and how to reverse it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3593165/
It is caused by fat deposits in the liver, which causes insulin resistance, and fat deposits in the pancreas, which causes beta cell dysfunction. Both of these usually require insulin to be high (it is possible to fill the liver with fat by drinking a lot of alcohol - this is alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver - but this is a separate metabolic phenomenon). Both can be reversed by a sudden and severe lowering of insulin combined with a spike in glucagon. At which point it is entirely possible to be a 300lb fatass with no insulin resistance and no type 2 diabetes. This is actually how this was discovered, it was noticed that most bariatric surgery patients had their type 2 diabetes reversed *before* the surgery, due to the special diet they were being put on to prepare for the surgery.

>>11803538
>other way around, the overwhelmingly predictive risk factor for obesity is your insulin resistance.
Around 90% of Type 2 Diabetics are overweight, anon. I can't believe you're seriously arguing it isn't the most predictive risk factor when it so clearly is.

>>11802953
>lmao

>>11803538
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/diabetes/overview/risk-factors-type-2-diabetes
>You are more likely to develop type 2 diabetes if you
>are overweight or obese
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/symptoms-causes/syc-20351193
>Risk factors
>Factors that may increase your risk of type 2 diabetes include:
>Weight. Being overweight is a main risk factor for type 2 diabetes.
http://tosconnect.obesity.org/obesity/content/weight-diabetes
>How does my weight relate to type 2 diabetes?
>There are many risk factors for type 2 diabetes such as age, race, pregnancy, stress, certain medications, genetics or family history, high cholesterol and obesity. However, the single best predictor of type 2 diabetes is overweight or obesity. Almost 90% of people living with type 2 diabetes are overweight or have obesity
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/risk-factors.html
>Prediabetes
>You’re at risk for developing prediabetes if you:
>Are overweight
>Type 2 Diabetes
>You’re at risk for developing type 2 diabetes if you:
>Have prediabetes
>Are overweight

>>11803571
I cant believe you're still confusing correlation with causation, anon. Weighing people has always been cheap and easy, checking for insulin resistance is still comparatively expensive. There's an obvious tendency to want to use the cheap measure as a proxy for the expensive one, and this is fine as long as you don't make the mistake of conflating this with causation. We now know the direction of causality, and it is not the weight that causes the type 2 diabetes, at least not more than a few pounds of it. You can give someone type 2 diabetes without getting them fat first, and you can reverse type 2 diabetes without making them skinny first. The difference between type 2 diabetes and normal insulin production and response is literally a few pounds of fat in the wrong place - it is not a matter of obesity.

>>11803581
Ooh someone doesn’t have a comeback

>>11803581
>>>/global/rules/6

>>11803601
Again, all this is nice anon, but you are fundamentally not understanding the difference between correlation and causality. The cause of type 2 diabetes was discovered in 2012. I've given you a link to the Banting Award lecture by the lead researcher on that project, here's the critical paper where his team explains the process, with lots of MRI photos showing how it develops and how it reverses, and how they did it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743/
We can experimentally cause type 2 diabetes in a few weeks, and reverse it on demand in a few weeks. It is not caused by obesity. But the insulin resistance and beta cell dysfunction that result from insulin resistance do cause obesity, through metabolic mechanisms that have been known since the early 20th century.
Yes, it is possible to be obese without type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes is sufficient though not necessary for obesity. Obesity is neither necessary nor sufficient for type 2 diabetes.

>>11803618
>>11803661
http://clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/45/8/1339
>The obesity is a cause of insulin resistance rather than a consequence.

>>11803677
That doesn’t disprove his point

>>11803677
That paper is several decades out of date, and that's the best thing I can say about it. It was published in 1999, the critical discovery and proof of the reversability of the mechanism of the cause of type 2 diabetes happened in late 2011/2012.

>>11803677
The paper simply states that proposition without support. It makes the same mistake you are doing, confusing correlation with causality. It doesnt matter how strong the correlation is, without a mechanism for causation that has been validated experimentally, you cannot infer the direction of causality, and it doesnt matter whether that logical fallacy is published in a journal or on a blog.

>>11803618
>>11803661
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-662-49195-9_40.pdf
>Worldwide, the number of adults with type 2 diabetes has more than doubled since 1980 (Danaei et al. 2011). Why obesity is the main cause for this can be plausibly explained by knowledge of the underlying molecular mechanisms. For example, the tumor necrosis factor α produced in the excess fat deposits, the peptide hormone resistin as well as the fetuin-A given off by fatty livers create an insulin resistance in the muscle cells by blocking the insulin receptors on the cell surfaces. This insulin resistance, together with the associated reduced production of insulin by the β-cells in the pancreas that then usually takes place after a longer period, is what causes type 2 diabetes.
RE: This:
>You can give someone type 2 diabetes without getting them fat first, and you can reverse type 2 diabetes without making them skinny first.
>reverse type 2 diabetes
"Reversal" is a terrible term for what's really being talked about here which is at best a remission. You can get off insulin but your body is never going to go back to the way it was before you broke it. From that point on you are going to be vulnerable to blood sugar fluctuations in ways non-diabetics aren't. And even if you eat like a saint and do everything right while off insulin you're still going to be at an increased risk for all the shit regular diabetics are including infections of the extremities and eye problems like cataracts. No doctor will ever, ever make an update to your patient information profile saying you're no longer a diabetic. Type 2 diabetes isn't defined by constant out of control blood sugar. It's defined by having had, at any time, a fasting plasma glucose reading at or greater than 126 mg/dl with symptoms or two such readings without symptoms, among a couple other very similar diagnostic approaches.

>>11803601
>risk factor
>risk factors
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_factor
>Risk factors arecorrelationaland not necessarilycausal, becausecorrelation does not prove causation.
Embarrassing error anon. Back to school for you.

>>11803778
How is that an "error?" Read the post it was in response to and try again:
>>11803538
>other way around, the overwhelmingly predictive risk factor for obesity is your insulin resistance.
^That would be a claim obesity isn't a predictive risk factor. A reply about how much it definitely is a predictive risk factor isn't an "error." The causal debate is a separate issue.

>>11803767
>From that point on you are going to be vulnerable to blood sugar fluctuations
No. Actually you arent. Read the paper. The subjects in the Taylor experiments had *lower* insulin resistance and *better* beta cell function that the control group (who had textbook sugar control, no insulin resistance, and no family history of either). You're falling into the pre-2012 trap that type 2 diabetes is irreversible and progressive. It simply isnt, in any meaningful sense. You can certainly let yourself become type 2 diabetic again, but this no more proves that type 2 diabetes is irreversible than getting a cold next year proves you never got over the cold. It just proves that particular occurence was cured, and that the cure is not a vaccine.

>>11801211
That looks surprisingly good for a diet fag. Almost like fit for human consumption.

>>11802988
Speaking of breath, people who eat high-carb diets have a much higher number of sugar-eating bacteria in thier mouths. They actually smell terrible if they don't brush their teeth every 8 hours. And their teeth rot faster than people with low-carbohydrate diets. And they don't get thrush or systemic yeast infections. I'm not really a keto crusader, but I do think refined grains and sugars are the devil. People are just mad that eating things like candy bars more than occasionally is nutritionally indefensible in the long term. In my opinion, any long term diet that does not include processed junk food or refined sugar, and does include more vegetables is an inherently healthier one.

The gist of the anti-ketogenic diet sentiments on this board are that overweight people are using it as an intervention weight loss diet. A lot of them are successful (for whatever reason), and it pisses off the contrarian culture here.

>>11802736
>*treatment*
Bro it just postponed you dying from 3 weeks to 6 months
That's not a treatment

>>11804453
it wasn't the best treatment of all time, but it was much better thn nothing. keto would keep a type 1 diabetic alive for quite a long time. their blood sugar stabilised and the risk of diabetic ketoacidosis dropped considerably. they still couldn't put on any fat no matter how much they ate, so they never had fat reserves to fall back on if they missed a meal and failing to eat on schedule meant accumulating more metabolic damage that would eventually catch up to them. the macro ratios are more important than if you're tryng to lose weight on keto, though, and back then they didn't have a good way to determine these accurately.
pre-insulin type 1 diabetics are a good example of how the simplistic CICO argument leads to the wrong conclusion unless informed by knowledge of the endocrine and how it directs energy storage and conversion. Back before insulin, a type 1 diabetic's fate was to eventually starve to death, no matter how much he ate.

>>11803984
the vegans were hoping that their meme diet would be the one chosen. theyre just feeling jilted.

>>11803984
Nice opinion man

>>11805364
to clarify. insulin is one of the most potent hormones in the human body, playing hundreds of regulatory roles. keto largely solves the big one that afflicts type 1 diabetics, by switching energy distribution and synthesis to a series of processes that doesnt rely on insulin nearly so much. but it does fuckall for the other metabolic processes that rely on insulin for control. eventually errors in keto macros and general lack of regulation in these other biologic processes will kill a type 1 diabetic without insulin. however, keto itself is damned near an unalloyed good for type 1 diabetics even today, because it makes it much easier to calculate their insulin doses, and they don't have to worry quite so much about diabetic ketoacidosis, and they can safely run at lower insulin levels and push off insulin resistance farther into the future. insulin resistance is a big problem for type 1 diabetics.

>>11803984
>not a keto crusader
>refined grains and sugars are the devil
you're not fooling anybody ketard

>>11805402
Find me a single living medical doctor who says eating a lot of candy in addition to or in replacement of a person's daily calories is a good diet. You can't fool me, sugarman.

>>11805424
Find me a ketard that thinks eating a high carb diet full of whole grains and proper carbs is healthy ketardstrawman

>>11805647
So what you're saying is that the retardation meme is true? Ketards really are so stupid as to believe that the diet with the highest longevity in the world is "unhealthy"?

>>11803848
That'd be great if more research were done and that fringe opinion eventually turns out to be true and officially accepted. As of today though if you get Type 2 Diabetes and "cure" yourself, doctors and insurance companies don't stop considering you diabetic. That's still just considered a remission, not a cure.

Keto is great to do for a few months or a year to lose weight. After that, just fucking eat a normal well balanced diet. Mediterranean diet is the most kino

>>11805662
>kino
fuck off, virgin

>>11801211
Spinach, meat, cheese, avocado and a couple nuts for every meal. Wow what a fun and varied diet.

>>11805657
>yeah he's off all meds and his doctor can find no sign of the disease but his checkbox says he still has it so haha hope he enjoys his insulin shots :-p
So you're claiming that what a checkbox on a piece of paper says about some9nr's health is more important than their actual, tested and verified health? Or are you just moving the goalposts and hoping nobody notices?

>>11805647
Ok. Here I am. I don't think there's anything wrong with whole grains for most people. I never said there was. My argument was that refined starches and sugars were not healthy. What most people used to call junk food. Candy bars, snack cakes, prepackaged snack foods made from bleached flours. Not sure if you're a troll, or legitimately stupid. You argued that my argument was a strawman with a strawman argument. Just pretending? Not particularly curious. Did you find a doctor that says eating candy bars every day is a sound nutritional strategy yet?

>>11802869
>you CICOfags angrily retort that its just water weight
Unless you need a flatbed truck to be moved around you aren't losing 13kg in a week.

I like keto
Mostly because it makes me feel normal and carbs make me feel bad.
Weight loss is a bonus.

>>11805741
Why isn't it officially recognized as curable then? Other diseases are recognized as curable in medical records and insurance claims.

>>11805952
no idea tbqh. the younger doctor are more willing to consider it a cure, older doctors have spent a lifetime being told that it is irreversable and progressive, that doesn't change overnight. It doesn't help that the implications of this are that the ADA and these doctors have been giving their patients absolutely lethal advice for decades. if you've never read Kuhns book "Stucture of Scientific Revolutions" its pretty on point as to how this stuff actually happens in the real world, and how little it has to do with the scientific method and rational inquiry.

>>11801211
Kek is that just two huge knobs of butter on Sunday?

>>11805952
I used to work in the insurance industry doing risk rating software, so I have some relevant background in this. it isnt so much that they don't consider you "cured" as its something they consider in their risk rating algorithm, its a correlative "risk factor", and probably a big one both for the individual and their immediate family and descendents since there are both genetic and environmental factors to t2 diabetes. but this is different from them sayin "he's not cured".
they used to do the same with car accidents, any accident and you were labelled "accident prone" and charged a higher rate the rest of your life, until state laws put an end to that by restricting the length of time a driving incident could be considered for rating. then we discovered that your credit rating was highly *predictive* of your future accident risk, and used that until state regulations reigned that in as well.

>>11806558
so until they medical associations come up with a standard for officially determining someone is cured of type 2 diabetes, then someone sues because his insurance didn't go down post-cure and there's a big class-action settlement, or the states step in and force the insurance companies to stop, they are likely to continue charging extra for former t2 people. there's a lot of money to be made here, not just from the insurance but from the drug companies, look at the symptoms of metabolic syndrome* and the amount of drugs prescribed for these worldwide, and there's going to be a *lot* of pushback on anything that might halt the gravy train,
* central obesity, high blood pressure, high blood sugar, high serum triglycerides, and low serum HDL

>eating when you want to lose weight

Just do two weeks water fasts you inefficient fucks.

>>11801211
Where is the 8th day?

>>11806867
8th day is fasting

>>11801218
>he doesn't know about gluconeogenesis

If you consume enough protein, some of the excess protein is actually converted into glucose, which is more than enough for your brain.

That being said, some carbs occasionally are fine (~1-2 times a week). They should not be a staple part of the diet and make up >50% of energy intake like the Food Pyramid says, however.

Meat and fat aren't the problem, carbs, specifically grains and sugars, are.

>>11806916
in humans gluconeogenesis from protein only happens in the transition phase (first few days) into ketosis. once ketosis is well and truly going, glucose will be synthesized from the glycerol left over after stripping it of triglycerides, and from one of the ketones (acetone iirc) that is converted to glucose at about a 30% rate, so no protein is necessary to fulfil the glucose needs. One interesting special case of this is bears, who generally don't seem to enter ketosis during hibernation because there is enough glucose being made from their huge fat stores that their serum glucose levels never drop low enough to trigger ketosis.

>>11801211
oh i'm sorry i'm a fully grown physically active man i need a mans diet with mans food.

>>11803058
>keto cucks waiting 5+ days to get into deep ketosis
>fasting does that in less than half the time

Almost 20 lbs lost in 10 days. But the refeeds should be keto if possible.

>>11806558
>it isnt so much that they don't consider you "cured"
There' a difference between type 2 diabetes and gonorrhea for example though. Nobody considers gonorrhea a permanent condition having had it 10 years ago doesn't count as a preexisting condition when you deal with medical records / insurance later on. Seems pretty clearly like type 2 diabetes isn't considered curable as of today when you compare it to all the other diseases that are considered curable.

>>11801253
>look ma, my fat ass shed some waterweight

I hate keto but I wouldn't take diet advice from a fat fuck instead.

>>11806983
the cause and nonsurgical cure for t2 diabetes was only proven a few years ago. bariatric surgery is much older and has been recognized as a cure for over a decade. It turns out that the way it effects its cure doesn't actually require the surgery, and that moreover with most bariatric patients the cure happened *before* the actual surgery. I really don't know why the sequence bariatric diet->cure->surgery is considered a cure while bariatric diet->cure isn't. the method reynolds used in the 2012 experiment that won him the banting award is essentially identical to the diet given to patients about to undergo bariatric surgery, his advancement was the MRI techniques to show what happened during the reversal, compare this to what happens during the disease's progression, which when combined with the results from the euglycemic clamp verified that the reversal was total and complete without the need for the surgery.

>>11801211
Started four weeks ago, it's going pretty well. Down to 320 from 340. Still a long ways to go.

>>11807076
youll never get there with keto. water fasting is the way to go.

>>11805653
Okinawans are the longest lived people in the world. Know what they eat?

Vegetables cooked in animal fat.

>>11805662
>well balanced

I would agree with this if well balanced meant curbing carb intake heavily. You really only need to eat carbs every day if you are an Olympic level athlete.

>>11807098
*carbs in the amounts the FDA claims

>>11807091
okinawans haven't been the longest lived people in the world in some time. I bet you also think the chinese have low diabetes despite eating lots of rice?

>>11801218
Your body unless it has metabolic issues, can create the amount blood sugar you need to live, and thrive. I do not have the study in front of me, but people driven to starvation, if given insulin wouldn’t need emergency attention, that’s the extreme, and I am sure it’s not good for you to do that . That, being the extreme, now compare to keto, where you get some carbs, maybe about as much as an apple, or two. Like just be a little open minded here.

>>11807106
>just be a little open minded here.
someody miss reddit?

>>11807091
Starchy vegetables.

>>11807117
What does that have to do with anything ?

>>11807125
Those studies were done on people who had a diet caused by shortages in the meat supply still riding the health of their prior traditional diet

>>11807091
they eat really copious amounts of salt, and eat a shitton of some local seaweed. one of those two is clearly the key to their longevity.

>>11801211
I started a low carb diet (not no carb, just cutting out high carb foods like potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, and the like). I decided to just eat some french fries and breaded chicken after 2-3 months of the diet because I had no other food left. Is it normal to feel like of light headed with stomach pains? It's not food poisoning, obviously. I know what that feels like.

>>11807130
Answer the question.

>>11807247
kind of light headed with mild stomach pains*

>>11807247
no. eating carbs after low carbing feels like youve just eaten thanksgiving, where you just feel bloated and wanna take a nap.

>>11807262
This. It turns out it isn't the turkey that makes you sleepy after thanksgiving dinner, its the carbs.

>>11807247
>french fries
could be the salt. if you've ever eaten a spoonful of marmite on a dare it feels like this.
drink lots and lots of water. it'll either make you feel better, or make it easier to throw up.

>>11807308
The fries were unsalted, but I did add a little of my own. Which I don't think would really make much of a difference because I still cooked with salt recently. I use it on my porks and beef cuts.

>>11807247
If you are fat-adapted you aren't used to processing carbs anymore and it's a massive insulin shock as well as a general feeling of bloating.

>>11807280
Turkey has tryptophan which is an amino acid that helps induce sleep. You must be a zoomer. They tried selling it as a sleeping medicine and it just gave people cancer

>>11807557
>Turkey has tryptophan
Yes. Not as much as chicken and beef. It's cute that you think turkey is special this way, and its really just adorable that you think other people arent aware of this, desu.
>helps induce sleep
Ehhh, kindasortabutnotreallynotinthewayyouthink
Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin which is produced in the morning from sunlight hitting your eyes. it is a precursor to melatonin which is produced when light stops hitting your eyes, and it is melatonin that makes you sleepy. So the turkey you ate at thanksgiving dinner will help you sleep better the *next* night, but it is not what makes you sleepy after the meal itself. That is caused by the carbs.

>>11807597
>It's cute that you think turkey is special this way, and its really just adorable that you think other people arent aware of this, desu.
Evidently you weren’t you dipshit.

>that is caused by carbs
No it isn’t. There’s literally zero basis for this. Any blood sugar spike and subsequent fall is going to induce tiredness. This has nothing to do with any inherent property of carbs

You sure thought you sounded smart for a second didn’t you?

I'm currently on a donut diet. All my meals are donuts thanks to all the variety there are.

>>11807614
Go to bed and get some rest kiddo, its past your bedtime.

>>11807597
>It's cute that you think turkey is special this way
It's really not noteworthy at all. Tryptophan in turkey making you sleepy is a very common and widespread myth. It's like if someone said you only use 10% of your brain or you need to drink 8 glasses of water each day. You can correct people who say this, but it's silly to make a big deal out of it when they're just repeating what everyone's heard repeated at them by everyone else over the years.

>>11801211
keto gets you no gains
want high carbs and muscle glycogen you fucking twig

>>11807671
>Tryptophan in turkey making you sleepy is a very common and widespread myth.
So is Santa Claus, its still cute when you see someone sincerely believe in him.

>>11807636
that’s called mono

>>11807706
It's not cute though, it's pretty much the standard belief most people have. You're weirdly proud and patronizing over having learned at some point that a random, common piece of bullshit is bullshit. There's almost certainly some similar piece of bullshit you believe too.

>>11807654
Thanks ill eat some carbs to help lol fucking mong gobshitter

>>11807247
cut soda and sugar, keep pasta, rice, sweet potatoes, whole grain bread
get gains

Why os it always fatties Who look like shit the ones obsessed with keto.
All the biggest, leanest, strongest, wealthiest, fastest, most intelligent people eat carbs daily

>>11807765
because fatties are obsessed with being skinny, not with being healthy

>>11807780
You can be healthy without eating carbs.

>>11803762
you don't need a mechanism. a RCT can prove causation.

>>11807849
sure, go bench or deadlift bud, drain your non existent muscle glycogen

>>11807905
>what are free fatty acids

>>11807765
>why are people who want to lose weight obsessed with a diet that causes faster weight loss than most other diets

>>11807721
>it's pretty much the standard belief most people have
It isnt though. Everybody knows about it, yes. And everybody knows it's just a myth. You seem oddly defensive about this subject, is this perhaps some myth you happened to believe as recently as >>11807557

Is peanut butter alright to have on keto?
I thought about having celery with peanut butter to keep me full in the afternoon.

>>11807957
It isnt verboten if that's what you're asking. Read the label on your jar, figure out how many grams of carbs you have to spare in your budget for today, and enjoy some pbc.

>>11801278
>candies and pastas
Have you fat ass heard of vegetables

>>11807860
True, but getting permission to do a RCT in this area isnt like snapping your fingers.

>>11802321
The only requirement for keto is ketosis.

Another topic is the efficiency and timing of small amounts of carbs (soft carrots; cacao; etc.) – logically, it's possible being in ketosis while still getting small amounts of the macro (5-10g net carbs). Even 40 Cals. is (of simply calculating averages of usage – 2000 Cals. / 24 hrs: ~83 Cals./hr) only 30mins. of "somewhat less energy from ketones" (location specific).

>>11807683
>>11803646
Sourcing from T-nation is OK. The materials are at least reasonable, and having an argument is already quality.

>I'm talking about long term high levels.
So is that, just that the window for sustained insulin is only of small periods.

>eating more frequently
> >>11802153

>carbs
There are way more correlatives (introduction of fluoride into public water; switching of wheat from that of antiquity to a dwarfed variety; HFCS and other ingredients). Furthermore, getting proper nutrients plausibly has way more specific aspects and quick and lasting effects – science has evidenced the importance of both vitamin C *and* NAD (basic producers of energy, from citric acid cycling and cellular respiration; the former was still barely relevant at 5x RDA, and even small animals are sometimes producing 10+ g(!)/day – over 160x RDA) of which are obviously beneficial in much larger amounts than is available in minimalistic Western diets (common / most foods). "Cellular turnovers are very correlative with youth."

>>11808000
>>11803581
Glycogen replenishment is similar amongst VLC and standard diets.

>calories for the same tasks
It's utilizing more resources for producing what's ordinarily consumed from other things. … Any argument that efficient keto is of supplementing those calories with intermediates (such as pyruvate) is on those interests / claims – abundant nutrition is simple anyway, and the CICO of a few extra, very specific nutrients is minimalistic.

The biggest benefits are insulin timing and amounts (because it's fat sparing, etc.)

>>11807989
Just checked, mine seems to have 16 grams of fat and 6 grams of carb per serving (25 servings per jar).
What would be an acceptable gram limit for carbs for someone weighing around 280 lbs 6 ft?

>>11808008
Are you on keto now? Your weight doesnt matter. You have a carb limit for the day, most commonly this is 20g/day. You can eat 3 servings of peanut butter if you dont eat any other carbs the rest of the day. If you ate 20 grams of carbs already today, you cant eat any peanut butter, you get to suck on a naked celery stick.

>ketofags
>carbfags
When will you all take the snakepill? Fasting is the ultimate diet

So for keto I can just eat those blocks of food lion brand cheese and lunch meat for a meal?

>>11801211
>Whats wrong, anon?
You don't have enough meat in your image faggot. And what's with those toddler portions?

>>11801211
>meat and dairy
But there's like 10 different diets telling me to avoid this.

Seriously, are all these ""diets"" just one huge meme? How can anyone take them seriously when they all contradict each other? And another thing:

>avoid bottled water because of the shit in plastic
>avoid tap water because of estrogen/fluoride

Where the hell do I get water then?

>>11809427
>Where the hell do I get water then?
I'm terrified of my local water honestly. And my building's pipes.

I refill one of those massive 5 gallon jugs once every 3 days for 1.78 at Walmart. Could do it at CVS or Walgreens or whatever, but it's not like the machines are theirs and they have the cheapest but nicest machines.

>>11808261
Regular 24 to 72 hour fasting + keto refeeds took me from 260 to 185 lbs

If calorie restrictions cause you to rebound how come I still haven't gained back to 80 kg after several years

noobs
justmeat.co
youtube/sv3rige
youtube/franktufano
youtube/primaledgehealth

>>11801211

10/10 for diet food, it actually looks palatable.

These threads are fatties arguing with fatties. Normal people don't need special diets to stay relatively in shape.

>>11809887
>snark snark tautology
Really noggins the old noodle

>>11808261
>snakepill
le cringe

>>11807949
>You seem oddly defensive about this subject
I have nothing to defend personally, I just find you obnoxious and retarded for acting like it's funny someone not being aware the turkey / tryptophan thing is bullshit when the entire reason any of us know about this is because of how common that wrong belief is. You're like those children who are super-proud they're fourth graders now and look down on third graders for being one year younger.
>is this perhaps some myth you happened to believe as recently as >>11807557
No. There was a sticom during either the late 90s or early 2000s where I think the main character was played by some relatively unpopular comedian in real life and the show was possibly named after him in some way. And he had either a mother or a mother-in-law who had some sort of mental illness and history of violent crime. And they had an episode where she escaped from the psychiatric hospital she was being treated at and drugged her son's (or son-in-law's, I don't remember which) family by putting her antipsychotics in their Thanksgiving turkey. And as the main character and some other character began to feel the effects one of them kept on asking "what's that thing in turkey that makes you sleepy?" and the other one would respond "tryptophan." Until eventually they passed out and in the narration from the main character afterwards he pointed out how tryptophan making you sleepy was actually a myth and that his mom (or mother-in-law) had in actuality broken out of a mental hospital rather than being out for good behavior and put all her antipsychotics in their turkey.
I spent a while trying to track down what this TV show was, but I can't remember and can't find it. It wasn't a very good show and I don't think it even lasted more than one season. But tl;dr stop being a pretentious retard acting like your awareness of a common myth being a myth is something to be proud of.

>>11810020
so you're unhappy to discover that your mommy has been lying to you all these years? that santa claus isn't real, the earth isn't flat, the moon isn't made of cheese, and turkey doesn't make you sleepy?
for most people that's part of growing up.
learning you are not in fact just as smart as those other people who keep laughing at you? that's your own personal problem.

>>11810062
How is this anything like Santa Claus or the moon being made out of cheese? Unless you're part of a small minority of people whose careers involve organic chemistry you're not going to have much awareness of or interest in tryptophan or what effects it does or doesn't have beyond either having heard that myth and believing it or else having heard about that myth being a myth. Which is why trying to make a case of believing this myth sound like some sort of hilarious display of ignorance is pretentious pseud retardation.

>>11807557
This is a myth. Tryptophan doesnt make you sleepy enough to matter, and turkey doesnt have that much anyway. I've heard that chicken has much more, and nobody ever noticed it making them sleepy.

>>11807671
People make fun of village idiots for a reason.

>>11810271
That's not idiocy you pseud. At worst it's a super-common case of ignorance / misinformation.

>>11810317
Those are all the same thing. You must be a pretty pedantic 'sperg to differentiate between them.

>>11810327
It wouldn't be a commonly repeated myth in the first place if it required being exceptionally stupid to fall for. You're being way more idiotic by not understanding this.

>>11810348
>>doubling down on being a pedant even when we just called out out for it.

You just don't get it do you? We understand what you're saying, we just don't care.

>>11809427
Humans aren't meant to drink water

Stop consuming salt and eat your meats and fish raw. You'll notice you don't need one or two cups of liquid a day.

>>11809944
spotted the fatty

Wtf is keto?

>>11809887
For you to instinctively go to obesity when thinking about diet, you've already revealed yourself as a retard. You have to eat and live like a mentally ill failure to ever even come close to becoming a fatty. It doesn't happen to healthy people with functioning brains.

Diet is about feeling good overall, and being disease free.

This some impressively reddit tier stuff
cringy whining? check
passive aggressive? check
goalposting? check
>>11810317
>>11810089
>>11810020
>>11807721
>>11807671
Especially with the obvious samefagging by
>>11807614
>>11807557
Are you sure you wouldn't be comfier back on reddit? They'll be happy to console you and tell you what a smart girl you are.

>>11808261
Why is it called snake juice? It's just salt water right? Calling it snake juice just seems like a painful attempt to make something lame into something marginally less lame.

>>11801211
>>11801218
Obvious samefag. And you retards fell for it.

>>11810567
The diet is inspired by snakes, who eat one large meal infrequently and fast for the rest of the time

Lmao I made this as a bait thread 3 days ago or some shit and you fucking faggots swallowed it hook line and sinker. Keto on /ck/ is the best way to make all the wanna be doctors of 4chan REEE at each other

>>11810469
>he woke up at 10 in the morning to rush to his phone to make this abhorrent post
Redditors getting desperate these days

>>11801227
>yawn
Getting tired there are you keto fag?

>>11810442
Meme diet where you stop eating carbs and start eating tonnes of fat to put your body into a state where it uses primarily fat for energy.
For some reason keto fags think that this means their body is breaking down body fat instead of using the extremely high amount of dietary fat they are consuming.
The diet lowers blood glucose levels and reduces insulin resistance so it has some merit, but not as a permanent diet.

But the real answer is it's an excuse for people to eat nothing but bacon and pretend they are healthy, because that is what keto fags usually end up doing.

>>11810846
I dont know of you're just wrong or trolling, but I'll jump in anyway
>stop eating carbs
true
>start eating tonnes of fat
false, but it's a common mistake made by keto denialists
>put your body into a state where it uses primarily fat for energy
true
The rest of your comment consists of errors cascading from the root error noted above. In keto most of your calorie expenditure comes from fat. However this does not imply that these fat calories are ingested each day. If you are trying to maintain weight because you're doing keto for migraines or some other reason, then yes those fat calories are dietary - CICO and all that. If you are trying to lose weight then you eat less fat and your body makes up the difference from adipose tissue and you lose weight. Keto makes dietary fat and adipose fat completely fungible.

>>11801211
These people believe keto is some magic bullet bill that will slash fat and make them want to smash dat ass.
Spoiler alert: it's not.

>>11806788
Just make sure it's salt water.

>>11806788
Just do a VLCD ... starvation diet has no real advantage over VLCD other than being able to cause more complications and muscle loss.

>>11812029
fasting doesn't really cause muscle loss.