/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>11494579
because quality yeasted bread takes time. that's why it's pretty much always better to get fresh bread at a good bakery than trying to making it at home with sub-par ingredients, equipment, ovens, etc.

make quickbreads at home. like banana bread or simple yeasted breads like pizza dough

>4 days
its only the night before you retard, also dont use yeast, go sourdough like a real man

>>11494607
you can make better bread than your average californian bakery at home with a dutch oven

>>11494624
If you're creating levain from scratch, it can be 5 days or more.

>>11494579
>also dont use yeast, go sourdough like a real man
What did he mean by this?

>>11494638
Sourdough uses natural yeast that's already on the flour (they don't get fully filtered out in the milling process). You make a starter at least the night before (just put equal amount water to flour and mix), tiny amount of natural yeasts already on the flour multiply over night, and you can use that instead of yeast.

>>11494653
what you said is mostly accurate, but you cant make a sourdough starter from scratch in one night, it takes at least a week to get the bacteria strong and healthy

>>11494653
>you can use natural yeast instead of yeast
What did he mean by this?

>>11494673
just fucking google it you retard

>>11494673
>using commercial yeast at all
sad!

>>11494673
Natural yeast strains on the wheat are different from the commercially produced yeast strains that come in small pellets that you can buy in grocery stores.

>>11494678
Just trying to figure out why some retard would say don't use yeast use yeast instead.

>>11494673
There are more kinds of yeast and bacteria on flour that will add more flavor to bread compared to just adding dried yeast to the dough. The only downside is it takes a while to get them strong enough to start making the dough rise and you have to periodically feed it if you want to keep a batch for regular use, so it's less convenient.

>>11494688
then why was he implying that sourdough yeast wasn't yeast, He literally said "don't use yeast"

>>11494696
He meant don't use instant packaged yeast

post crumb shots

>>11494663
yeast is a fungi

>>11494713
i'd stick my dick in that slit on the bottom left.

>>11494579
>Why is this so hard?
Pouring shit in a bowl and waiting is hard?

>>11494779
>300pg books on pouring shit into a bowl
Do you oversimplify everything?

>>11494713
pic related. the day i finally understood how to make bread
>>11494714
Sourdough is a stable culture of lactic acid bacteria and yeast in a mixture of flour and water

>>11494714
Yeast is an animal

>>11494787
I'm willing to bet maybe only 20-30 pages are actually on starters
With maybe like 5 pages in you get the most basic of recipes which is literally yeast water flour

It's one of the most basic recipes on earth besides ice water

>>11494795
how’s she taste

>>11494841
making edible bread ≠ making good bread

>>11494868
sour, lactic, creamy, not a hint of vinegar, perfect

>>11494787
I was responding to the content of your post, not the content of that book, which I have not read. You complained about a starter taking 4 days and said it was hard.

About to start preheating my oven to bake my first loaf.

>>11494967
Good luck, don't fuck it up

>>11494967
overcome failure

My pizza game was coming together after working a few shops and regular home practice.

I tried a few bread loafs this year. I didn't activate the yeast like I do for my 'zas. All the loafs have turned out pretty flat, dense, unpleasantly yeasty, ungood. The toaster over also likes to attempt to burn the tops at all times.

>>11495023
forget everything you know about pizza, then start making bread

>>11494579
get a bread machine? It won't make anything mind blowing, but fresh warm bread from something on your kitchen counter with zero actual effort is pretty great.

>>11494579
>Why is this so hard?
New to baking here. First recipe I tried gave me more water than I realized I could work with. Shit stuck everywhere, couldn't shape it. Didn't work at all. It's really discouraging.

>>11496109
Weighing ingredients is critical when learning new bread recipe as flour volumes fluctuate widely based on how you scoop and what the weather is like that day. Find recipes that give ingredient amounts in weight, and use a good digital scale.

>>11494607
Specifically wild yeasted breads are hard and limited to certain localities. The much-famed San Francisco Sourdough will occur for almost anyone in the bay area who tries to culture a wild starter, because the mix of organisms that produces that flavor is what naturally lives in the region under the local climate conditions.

>>11496130
>>Weighing ingredients is critical when learning new bread recipe as flour volumes fluctuate widely based on how you scoop and what the weather is like that day. Find recipes that give ingredient amounts in weight, and use a good digital scale.

I used a scale. It could be the shit scale and the way I'm measuring it.
>Put bowl on top of scale and dump all the ingredients until I get the weight of the ingredients I want on the scale
On a more successful loaf that saw its way into an oven, I weighted the water and the dry ingredients separately, used slightly less water, left the dough out in room temp for 6 hours, and coat the shit out of the exterior with flour so I can grab and shape it without the dough tearing off into my hands. I'm not sure which one of these made the dough workable.

>>11496157
>Put bowl on top of scale and dump all the ingredients until I get the weight of the ingredients I want on the scale
You're zeroing the scale after you put the bowl on, right?

>>11496182
>>You're zeroing the scale after you put the bowl on, right?
Yes. I do not zero after I dump each ingredient though. I assume that pouring 500g of flour, tare, then 350g will be the same as pouring in 500g of flour, then enough water until I get 850g of total weight. The bowl is also a pretty large, but thin steel bowl. I'm suspecting that the scale could be a factor, but I don't have any solid evidence yet.

>>11496210
More likely explanation is that your kitchen has much lower or higher (more likely to be lower since home kitchens tend to be cooler than commercial kitchens have ovens and stoves on all day) ambient temperature than the recipe author's kitchen, and that's getting you different leavening. Or, the recipe is just shit.

if you want sour dough you need a scobi nigger! thats what Claire at Bon Appetite taught me. she's a smart cookie.

if you want to make basic irish soda bread there's tons of vids online. go learn instead of shitpoasting.

also:
>eating bread
join us on /fit/ when you want to stop being a fatfuck. you are what you eat. if you eat doughy shit your body becomes doughy. so simpo.

>>11494624
>you can make better bread than your average californian bakery at home with a dutch oven
Teach me how pls

>>11494579
>4 days in advance
only if you want it to pop
if you don't mind it being flat you can prepare the dough and leave it for like 5h, bake after that, kinda like a pizza

is yeast really that bad

how do you stand the sourness

>>11494579
Unironically learning how to make a decent loaf of sourdough bread is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in a kitchen.

>>11496714
Sourdough loaves keep for longer out in the air, if you're making bread you want to last for more than 2 days or so it's in your best interest to use sourdough.

Obviously this isn't a problem if you're making bread for a dinner party or something and the whole thing is going to be eaten in one sitting.

>>11496973
a well made sourdough loaf is only slightly acidic, not overpowering the other flavors

>>11494579
and i the only one who thinks that title is really unwieldy?

>>11497392
Agreed. The second carrot is way too long. It should also say 'tastes' instead of 'taste', and it would make more sense if he said something more long the lines of... "like THE $8 blah blah bread THAT YOU FIND at hipster bakeries

Anybody have good whole grain bread recipe? Would prefer sourdough but not too sour.

Everyone keeps making these ugly burnt looking breads in the ops pic. It's the dumbest shit.

>>11499269
What do you think is a good looking bread?

>>11499269
>maillard reaction
>burnt

>>11494713

>>11494868
hey man, great job but i suspect this loaf is pretty overproofed, which accounts for the very large holes at the top of the loaf, as opposed to more evenly distributed ones likes pic related.

>>11499307
anon's probably a bao autist

for anyone jizzing over the large holes in the crumb, thats just really high hydration

>>11494579
Don’t be a fag, just make flatbreads like roti and naan

>>11499214
i gotchu.

50g starter

250g bread flour

250g red fife flour

10g salt

385g-400g water

mix flours and water, autolyse however long you want (i did about an hour and a half on this one.) add salt and starter, pinch and fold to incorporate. cover, stretch and fold every 30 minutes for 3 hours (total of 6 s+f), cover and let rise in cool area 8-12 hours (depends on how active the starter is and what your dough and room temp are. this one went for the full 12 hours.)

shape, proof in a brotform on the counter until it passes the finger-dent test. when it’s getting close to proofed, preheat dutch oven to 500F. score dough, place in oven and turn oven temp down to 450F. bake covered for 30 minutes, uncovered for 12-17 min depending on how you like it.

>>11499502
That bread would be pretty lewd and honestly reportable if it weren't for boner killing Robert Paulson holding it.

>>11499520
eh, hydration does play a big part, but it's also important to build dough strength through stretch and folds, and proper fermentation.

>>11499534
thanks, i absolute won't tell my friend you said that.

>>11496236
>he fell for the bread is bad for you meme on /fit

Go to Germany if you want to know what real bread is.

>>11495270
Definitely look in to getting a bread machine if you're lazy like me. I got a bread machine for free, since nobody else in my family wanted it, and I use it to make my sandwich bread every week. Shit's good.

>>11499755
I grew up on bread machine bread, if you just want to make fuckoff bread for whatever it DESTROYS anything you can get at the store and takes basically no effort. A bread machine is a solid investment for sure.

>>11494624
sourdough is old news you fucking hipster. also it tastes like dogass.

>>11494713
nice grey color

>>11499509
You’re right, it was left in the bread proofer for a long time. I got distracted and forgot about it.

>>11499878
happens to the best of us!

>>11499530
Now THAT is proper bread

>>11499917
thanks! i'm able to get freshly milled red fife flour pretty regularly at a farmer's market, and i absolutely love that flour.

>>11499943
at what point do you fold in your nuts?

>>11499963
i usually incorporate them during the second or third stretch and fold. i find that makes the final distribution pretty even, and you're not breaking a ton of the gluten by trying to knead them in/incorporate them after the bulk ferment.

>>11499984
thanks, i want to try adding things next time i bake.

>>11500005
don't be surprised if it's messy and falls apart at first. the additions are going to kinda spill out during the first and second stretch and folds when you add them. the dough will come back together, though. when you shape the dough, try to kinda smush the additions towards the inside of the loaf instead of on the outside surface, if you can.

>>11500047
will do. whats some of the better combos you’ve tried?

>>11500060
the cheddar jalapeño one from above was fucking delicious. i think figs and walnuts make for a great combo — i prefer figs over dates in my sourdough. the dates kinda melt into the bread (which is good, but i like the texture and firmness of the figs.) if you're gonna add nuts, toast and cool them before adding them to the dough. it makes the flavor so much better!

you also can't go wrong with just tossing in some caraway and sunflower seeds into whatever dough you're mixing up. caraway is a huge flavor punch.

>>11500080
>toast and cool them before adding them to the dough.
thanks for the tip

>>11500119
also keep in mind that if you're gonna add dried fruits (like figs, dates, dried cranberries, whatever), you might want to consider soaking the fruit in hot water for a bit and then draining it before adding it to the dough. you don't want the dried fruit to sap moisture from the dough that you fold it into.

>>11500138
thanks again. how long have you been baking?

>>11496139
>San Francisco mix of organisms
ah yes, I love AIDS gonorhea bread

>>11500152
gorgeous ears on that loaf!

i've been baking about a year and a half, but have been strictly sourdough for the last year. pic is the first sourdough loaf i baked!

>>11500175
>gorgeous ears on that loaf!
thanks, that was my first loaf.

>>11500202
god that's so much better than my first ever loaf

>>11500213
to be fair i did nothing but read and watch videos while i waited for my starter to be ready!

>>11500226
my bread game got exponentially better once i bought FWSY and watched some videos and made a starter.

>>11500239
im going to ask for some books this christmas, FWSY being on of them. whats your bulk ferment schedule like? thats a good looking loaf.

>>11500255
FWSY is great, but keep in mind that his levain-build schedule is fucked. he calls for you to build a fuckton of levain and then only use like 200-250g of it, so build your levain according to the final levain weight. also, i'm guessing you have a kitchen scale, but if you don't definitely ask for one!

i have two methods for bulk — one involves using 100g fed and bubbly starter for every 500g flour, with a bulk of about 4-6 hours depending on temp.

the other one i use when i haven't planned ahead of time is to use just 50g starter per 500g flour, with a suuuuper long bulk ferment of 10-12 hours in cooler temps (60-75F). i got this method from the "Artisan Sourdough Made Simple" baking book. i find it can be more forgiving (i.e., i can be drunk on a saturday night, mix up some dough, let it bulk with minimal work, then in the morning i can shape, proof, and either retard or bake the bread.

either method, i try to do stretch and folds or coil folds every 30 min for the first three hours. i also try to do a 1-3 hour autolyse for all my breads, especially the ones using fresh whole wheat flours.

>>11500288
>he calls for you to build a fuckton of levain and then only use like 200-250g of it
interesting. i'll have to try a longer autolyse, ive only done 30 minutes for all my oafs.

>>11500325
absolutely do at least an hour autolyse, it makes the dough so much more extensible! it's one of the seemingly small steps that makes a big difference. if i'm just using bread flour, i'll do 30 min, but if i'm using any kind of whole wheat (especially freshly milled) i do 1 hour bare minimum.

this weekend i did a 4 hour autolyse for a 50% fresh red fife loaf and it turned out great (pic related.)

(please excuse the shitty instagram story screenshot and the even more questionable "nail art," i baked this loaf for a coworker and asked her to send me a screenshot when she cut the loaf.)

>>11500363
also this bread was the latter method, using 50g starter and doing stretch and folds every 30 min for 3 hours, then letting bulk ferment around 65F for an additional 8 hours.

>>11500363
ill keep that in mind next time. might have to change my plans and make some loafs tomorrow!

>>11500288
That was the thing that threw me off while reading that book.

>use like 3 kg of flour to make levain and throw away almost all of it in the process

But once you have your starter you can use it all the time, so what's the problem?

>>11500410
the levain uses some of your starter plus new flour/water. if you dont use 100% of your levain, you're basically wasting flour.

>>11500401
yeah, i mean you toss out a ton of discard when you're growing your starter at first, but there's no reason to use 100g flour each time — just scale down the proportions and you're fine. i'm now at the point where i'll feed 30g starter with 60g each flour and water, then use 100g of the final levain to make bread, reserving the leftover 50g starter in the fridge for next time.

>>11500423
>starter in the fridge
how often do you feed?

>>11495270
Got this. Freshly made bread is the best thing ever

>>11500432
one a week, usually, but sometimes twice. if, say, i want to bake bread on sunday afternoon, i'll pull my starter out on thursday or friday evening, feed it, let it rest on the counter until it doubles in size, and then pop it back in the fridge. on saturday, i'll pull the starter out of the fridge and then autolyse flour and water while letting my starter come back up to temp. i then mix the dough and bulk ferment that evening, shape, and proof overnight in the fridge and bake sunday.

if i haven't remembered or was too busy to feed the starter on thurs or friday, i'll often times feed it on saturday midday and then use part of it in the evening using the 50g starter method i described above. the starter at that point is still pretty "young", i.e. not at peak, so that works well for a longer slow bulk fermentation schedule.

>>11500432
>>11500448
it's worth noting that every few months i'll feed my starter 2-3 times letting it sit on the counter in the traditional way to revive the yeast if the starter seems less active or laggy.

>>11500448
>>11500458
hmm, ive kept mine on the counter the traditional way from day 1 but lately ive been super busy and have missed a feeding here and there. i know its probably not a huge deal in the long run but i think im going to put it in the fridge.

>>11500418
I never made sourdough bread yet, but from what I have seen I thought it was standard to just keep the starter alive forever, even if it wastes some flour. Some said they had the starter for years.

>>11500475
i did the same thing at first, but keeping the starter in the fridge is such a life-saver. you don't have to feed it every day, your schedule is freed up, and honestly the starter is just fine. if you bake once or twice a week, i'd definitely recommend storing your starter in the fridge.

>>11500484
yeah, sure thing — you can keep starters alive for decades with no problem. it's just a matter of balancing how often you want to feed it with how often you're baking. there's no reason to feed the starter once or twice a day (and thus discard a large portion of it) if you're not baking daily.

>>11500418
you shouldn't use 100% of your levain or else you'd have to start your starter over every time. you should use like 50-80% of your starter when you bake, though, because then you can take the remainder, feed that, and have that to leaven your next loaf.

>>11500490
>if you bake once or twice a week
thats me. in the fridge she goes.

>>11500448
>>11500515

also, to clarify with measurements — if i feed my starter on a thursday or friday, i'll take 30g of the starter and feed it 60g flour and 60g water (100% hydration ratio.) that way when i want to mix up dough on saturday, i'll have a full 100g fed levain at peak to use in fermenting my dough.

>>11500047
fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk thats sexy

>>11500519
makes sense. thanks for the tips, have a good night!

>>11500526
thanks! here's the recipe:

>150g red fife flour
>350g bread flour
>~385g water

mix those together, let sit covered for at least an hour, preferably up to 3 hours.

then add 10g sea salt, another 10-20g water, and about 50-60g starter. after incorporation, do one round of stretch and folds. let rest at least 30 minutes.

mix in ½ mixture of the following things using the stretch and fold method:

>3 jalapeños de-seeded and chopped
>a few tbsp fresh dill
>about 5oz sharp cheddar, chopped to between ¼ to ½ inch pieces

let it sit for 30 min

add the other half of the cheddar/jalapeño/dill mixture and do another round of stretch and folds. allow the dough to rest for another half hour, do another round of stretch and folds, and then cover and place in a cool area overnight, 8-10 hours.

the next morning, shape and place in banneton, pop in the fridge for a few hours, then preheat dutch oven to 500F. score, cover, place in oven and turn heat down to 450. bake covered 40 minutes, uncovered 12-17 minutes. let cool almost completely before slicing.

>>11500541
cheers! make a new thread when you bake your next loaf and let us know how it turns out!

>>11500558
BAKE COVERED 30 MIN, not 40 min.

>>11500558
ty breadanon.

>>11500663
no prob, senpai, make a post if you decide to make it!

>>11496973
>>11497379
This, if it's too acidic the gluten structure will start to fall apart and you'll go from having a nice loaf of bread to having a soppy mess.

>>11499596
Modern mass-produced factory bread is definitely not good for you though. Unfermented wheat in general isn't great to be eating large quantities of.

>>11495270
is that all supposed to be the same recipe? 5 of those loaves look fucking burnt. how is that a "valid" test

>>11494868
>this is your brain on gluten

>>11494579
>Salt
Yikes.

>>11503128

>>11495270
Definitely, I've got a hamilton beach at home, great loaves

>>11494713
>>11494868
>>11499502
stop baking brains

>>11495270
I have never had bread I really liked from a bread machine.

OP if you're new to making bread. Try this first
https://www.abreaducation.com/content/lesson1-first-loaf

Breads just getting ready for the overnight proof will put up pics tomorrow

>>11500239
Came buckets

Regarding sourdough, if I don't bake often I've heard you can put the dough in the fridge, which ofc will slow down the bacteria because of the cold.

Does anyone here do that? I want to know for how long periods it will work or if it will hurt the dough in the long run.

>>11503804
you can put your starter in the fridge and feed once a week. take it out a few days before you plan to bake and feed the conventional way on the counter.

>>11494713
I'd fuck that

>>11494663
And the yeast is not on the wheat, it's in the air.

This is my first loaf, used the first recipe from fwst. As long as you understand the process going in its super easy

>>11503556
thanks, here's the crumb of that loaf.

>>11503804
what >>11503846 said. i store mine in the fridge and feed it once, maybe twice a week if it seems a little laggy.

>>11504235
gorgeous first loaf, anon. got a crumbshot?

>>11504258
The lightings shit but here you go. The ambient temperature was a few degrees higher than what the book called for, and I did three punch downs instead of two because I got nervous, which I think is what caused the really hokey and uneven crumb

>>11504275
you should be proud of that crumb, that's what a lot of home bakers strive for!

>>11504235
>fwst

>>11504337
The book in the op

>>11504371
not the guy you replied to, but you’re the only person to ever use the abbreviation. it’s not that popular.

>make bread
>tastes like yeast
Never again

>>11504401
most home bakers/baking communities online are familiar with FWSY and use the abbreviation, just like we'd say "Tartine" or "TPL".

>>11504427
No.

>>11504464
Not him but yeah it’s pretty obvious what he was talking about. Also previously itt, the same abbreviation was used (and understood).

I've been baking bread for a couple months now and i'm really enjoying it. One thing I haven't figured out yet though is why does the bottom crust always get so much harder than the rest, and how do I get it more even? The rest of the crust is great but the bottom is just so tough.

Pic related is today's sourdough
5% each whole wheat, spelt and rye. The rest bread flour. Tastes great

>>11504961
Forgot to add I use a dutch oven and bake at 470 F

I take the lid off after 20 min, and I've tried turning down the temp a bit after that point but it didn't change anything

>>11504961
you're baking in a dutch oven, yeah? if so, take a cookie sheet and place it inverted on the rack below where you put your dutch oven. it'll help deflect some of the direct heat from the bottom of the oven.

also get a cheap oven thermometer and make sure your oven temp is accurate.

>>11504961
>>11504970
oh you can also put parchment in your DO (i use it as a kind of sling to get my dough into the hot pot), that'll provide a little barrier as well. but seriously do the inverted cookie sheet thing, all of the bottoms of my loaves used to be too hard/burnt before i started doing that.

>>11504961
also gorgeous loaf, looks delicious.

>>11504970
>>11504974
>>11504983
Thanks a lot. I've been using parchment paper for a while; it makes the whole process so much easier. I'll give that cookie sheet thing a try next time.

>>11494579
>>11504969
>>11504970
>skim the book
>read this thread
>you need a 4 qt Dutch oven to bake these breads

Fuck

>>11505007
lodge combo cooker is cheaper and better imo.

>>11504995
good luck! the cookie sheet thing definitely improved my breads.

>>11505007
baking """artisan""" breads at home is impossible without a dutch oven or similar contraption. you can find ones on amazon or at like walmart for like $30. i honestly wish i had a lodge combo cooker like >>11505021 recommends — seems like it'd be easier to transfer the dough to a shallow pan.

>>11494579
>making your own bread

>>11505031

>>11505007
Other methods work. A lot of people use a pizza stone with a tray with water for steam underneath. Others use bricks to make a "floor".

However cast iron dutch ovens/ combo cookers are probably the most common for home bakers and really easy. Not to mention really useful for other stuff.

>>11505031
>still fedora shaming in the current year

>>11505031

>>11496270
https://redstaryeast.com/recipes/no-knead-dutch-oven-bread/

>>11496270
>>11505285
breadanon here. yeah this is an excellent entry recipe for baking bread at home. when you measure out your flour, fluff it up with a spoon or fork and then spoon it into the measuring cup instead of dipping the cup into the bag of flour.

>>11496270
you can also use this recipe, which is famous as an entry to bread baking obsessions https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread

you shouldn't really punch down your dough.

rice > bread

>>11503491
Morning boys

>>11506350
lovely bake