/ck/ - Food & Cooking

I see your point, but savoriness is a more general term than umami.

For example, chicken broth is savory, but it has less savouriness than kelp stock or fish sauce.

>>11287085
then say more savory or less savory you nigger

>>11287107

Okay.

I mean its different. For example a tomato is sweet right? Yet it has umami. Specifically umami is more the flavour glutamic acid brings to meats as opposed the the savoury flavour which you can technically call cheese on toast savoury despite it not containing umami.
Either way the Japanese bred the best cows for umami and I live in shiga, the land of ohmi beef one of the best three, so I'm biased.

Savory dishes benefit from the addition of umami ingredients such as mushrooms, worchestershire sauce, tomatoes, soy sauce, yeast extract and MSG

>>11287058
Car hole

>>11287058
Umami is savory/meaty. You can have savory foods that aren't meaty, it's not the same thing. You'd have a better point if you wanted people to just say meaty.

>>11287058
>>11288389
>>11288434
>>11288443
OP here.
I don't know if it's different in Japan, but I've literally seen the word savoury just straight up replaced by umami, like on topics such as what flavour receptors are on the human tongue.

So yes, people do straight up fucking replace the word savoury with umami and if the Japanese don't have a word to describe the taste of savoury veggies or whatever, then I'm not actually to sure why they wouldn't apply it to everything, but I guess that could be possible where the Japanese would use other descriptions.

Still, my rage is directed towards people ripping the word savoury out and putting umami in, sometimes even within somewhat scientific contexts.

>>11288438
underrated

>>11288775
Different parts of your tongue tasting different things isn't true

>>11289181
Maybe you should read your shitty and subtly misleading Wikipedia article more carefully
>all taste sensations come from all regions of the tongue, *although different parts are more sensitive to certain tastes.*

>>11288389
>cheese on toast
>not umami
>no glutamic acid
Why do you eat shitty cheese bro?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0023643801907546

Fermented protein always result in glutamic acid. Do your research before spicing up your posts with fancy words and shitty examples.

>>11287058
Yup.
They'll defend it too.

>>11288389
OP's point is that you would describe the tomato as being "sweet and savoury". You're saying either that you'd just say "the tomato has umami" or "the tomato is sweet and has umami". OP is saying they're essentially synonyms and there's no material difference between them. A food having one aspect of flavour doesn't preclude there being another. Sweet and sour pork has aspects of savouriness, apples can be sweet AND tart. ALSO:
>Specifically umami is more the flavour glutamic acid brings to meats as opposed the the savoury flavour which you can technically call cheese on toast savoury despite it not containing umami.
I guarantee you that whoever came up with the term umami originally had never even heard of glutamic acid, so you have yet to establish that the term exists as a specifically chemical analysis of food as opposed to essentially a synonym for savoury, as they describe similar traits.

>>11289484
People knew what wood was before they knew it was made out of carbon you absolute fucking redditor

People use "umami" because it was the scientific term used before the receptor's discovery. Sure you could say savory, but I don't get why people get so flustered about it.

>>11289518
>don't get why people get so flustered about it
>people
People don't. It's subhuman jingoists jealous of japan.

>>11289505
>if I call them a redditor that'll show em. I'm so smart! ha ha

>>11288443
>>11288389
All umami is glutamaic acid is savory.

Deal with it fucking weebs. There's no gunning around this for you.

>>11287058
Savory isn't the same as umami. Savory just describe a class of dishes that aren't sweet. Umami literally describes the taste of glutamates on the tongue. Potato chips, for example, are savory but not umami, and red bean paste is umami but sweet, not savory.

>>11289860
Also I am a redditor

>>11289883
>All umami is glutamaic acid is savory.
I agree.

>>Deal with it fucking weebs.
What do weebs have to do with anything? Standard practice in science is that the person(s) who prove or identify something get to name it. Why does it bother you that there are two words which mean the same thing in two different languages?

>>11290026
>Savory isn't the same as umami.
Wrong.

>Savory just describe a class of dishes that aren't sweet.
No.

>Umami literally describes the taste of glutamates on the tongue.
Yes/

>Potato chips, for example, are savory but not umami
They are both.

>and red bean paste is umami but sweet,
not savory.
It is all three.

A food can be both sweet and savory/umami at the same time. For example: glazed ham, BBQ with a sugary sauce, classic French roast goose or duck with fruit, etc.

savoury has become so closely linked to saltiness that it may be a necessary inconvenience to have another word for it
much like most of the english language

>>11290050
According to the dictionary, you're wrong. Savory is just a class of not sweet dishes, not a taste or flavor. And potato chips are almost completely lacking in umami, they're just greasy and salty. And red bean paste is used exclusively in desserts, rendering it not a savory ingredient.

I thought savoury was just a name for foods that aren't desserts, sweets, cakes etc.

>>11287058
using the word 'umami' instead of 'savory' is among the most pretentious foody bullshit I've ever heard.
almost as bad as using 'mouthfeel' instead of 'texture'

>let's try to force his word that's sure how language works haha
Fuck off.

You guys are fucking stupid, I can't believe this is the "cooking" board of 4chan.
There's obviously many types of savory flavors, especially when you compare fish and beef. But the main key to differentiate it is by tasting it properly and know what other tastes does it have besides savory.

Jesus, /ck/.
And stop using buzzwords like >>11290149 said for fucks sake, it makes you sound like some neckbeard that does GOMAD with soy milk and has 34H bra size.

>>11291414
Also adding on >>11290070.
IIRC the definitions by Google are sourced from many other pages and there is a lot of subjectivity in this term.
>>11290065
No.
But I have a strong feeling that saltiness and "taste" of water are strongly related desu.

>>11291441
'taste' of water can have many factors
id suggest looking at the difference between hard and soft water
and le gay frogue chems too if you're into that kind of stuff

All Japanese words sound fucking retarded. Like something a toddler would make up.

>>11290081
No, savoury is a taste. It actually is a taste and people commonly use it that way.

>>11290081
It's even more basic than that.

"Savory" just means anything that tastes good. Anything you savor. So desserts and sweets also apply. Only recently it's applied to things that aren't sweet, after the term "umami" was coined.

There's the English word "piquant" which means something that tastes good but also nasty. Like some weird stinky cheese, or sauerkraut or something.

>>11291906
Cool, cos toddlers can't edge out US car manufacturing and technology despite it's small country size. Gotcha

>>11288775
In your pic haven’t they replaced “savoury” with “salty”?

savory |ˈsāv(ə)rē|
noun
an aromatic plant of the mint family, used as a culinary herb.

>>11291948
Which is exactly how the word unami was used in japanese you brainlet
Just fucking say savoury taste instead of -umami- taste that sounds fake and pretentious

>>11291948
>"Savory" just means anything that tastes good
No it doesn't. Your etymology is right, your definition is not.
The reason the second definition is so poorly made is because they have no other way to describe the taste sensation of "savory".

This is not uncommon in dictionaries. They call (or used to call) spiders insects, but biologically, that is wrong. I know that's a different sort of word, but while dictionaries are useful and they are authoritative on things such as etymology, the definitions are not perfect because not everything can necessarily be explained without using the word for it and/or without a very long explanation.

If a dictionary calls a golden retrieve "a dog that [description of appearance]", that's more or less correct, but its not going to encompass everything that a golden retriever is; it just gives you an idea of the word. It won't give you the nuances and it won't be easy to explain certain things without going into a level of depth that exceeds what is necessary to basically understand the word.
They are also limited by formal language and lack of sensory experience possible through illustrations (on the rare chance they have one) and written description.

You can't go full on monkey paw manipulation with dictionaries.

*breathes*
More importantly, If we agree on these things

*savory is not sweet
*savory is not spicy - no one would use it to describe something as "spicy'
*savory is not sour - you would not use it to describe the sensation that makes some people pucker when you lick a lemon or eat grapefruit
*savory is not bitter - you would not use it to describe the primary defining tastes of cranberries, grapefruit, or most food that's aged or gone bad.

Then savory is used the same way as umami.

>>11293504
wtf is this? tism sperg out?

>>11293504
Correction: Somehow mixed up bitter and sour when I was typing that last example for bitter.

Better example:
You would not use savory as a generic descriptor for something poisonous or certain foods that have gone bad

>>11293515
Its nothing new to this thread. I just really hate the term garage, that's all. Any way I'm out.

>>11288389
Retard

>umami bomb

>>11289484
Who the fuck has ever described a tomato as "sweet and savory." Nothing is sweet and savory. If it's sweet, it's not savory.

>>11287058
Savory is not a basic taste and implies a mixture of several tastes, including salt.

Umami is a basic taste and we use that word in recognition of the immense scientific effort Japan produced to demonstrate its existence.

Get over it white boy.