/ck/ - Food & Cooking

IKR?

BTW, don't appropriate culture.

>>10739810
Why do italians hate helicopters?

[spoiler]WOP WOP WOP

Italians truly are subhuman
https://www.eater.com/2017/7/5/15924670/nigella-lawson-carbonara

Because people's lives are generic and feel the need to feel superior about something.
Like holy fuck who cares

>>10739810
There's no such thing as authenticity. I don't give a shit what Italians or anyone else thinks. And I don't even use cream in my carbonara. I just don't care.

>>10739819
Culture IS appropriation. That's the definition of 'culture.'

Why would any idiot put cream in carbonara?

>>10739870
Another whitey trying to justify the horror of his history. When will it end?

>>10739885
I'm spic yo.

>>10739880
To make it more creamy?
To adapt the recipe to their tastes?
Carbonara easily becomes pretty dry so cream might also help with that.

>>10739810
Why do you care so much?
>Why do Italians get so angry if someone uses cream in carbonara
Probably because it sucks compared to the egg yolk version

>>10739894
Put cream on your pasta and call it a cream sauce, for fuck's sake.
It's not carbonara.

>>10739919
>Adding a little bit of cream to a recipe makes it a completely different dish
What does autism feel like?

>>10739940
>I can make it with whatever ingredients I want, fuck the recipe!
What does mediocrity feel like?

>>10739959
Is the recipe for carbonara written on stone tablets somewhere in Italy?
Pretty much every dish from every cuisine has a bunch of different variations, including Italian ones.
Where is the fun in cooking if you only ever do it the most traditional way?
Why are you getting so hostile over how someone adding an extra ingredient to a pasta dish that is known and cooked around the world.

>>10739810
>cream in carbonara
do amerilards really

>>10739810
It's simple really.
>If you make Italian food, you make it how Italians make it. Then its Italian
>If you make something Italian but use something different, then its Not Italian.

>>10739885
Name one culture that hasn’t been appropriated /pol/tard.

Oh wait, you can’t. Because those that haven’t are all dead and lost to history

>>10739982
>I make Croque Monsieur, but with no bechamel, and meatloaf instead of ham

>>10740054
Fair enough, but I have still never seen any nation be so hostile when other people cook their food.

>>10739810
Why do you care if italians are angry?
They were axis in WW II and can piss off.

>>10740095
how can they have a sense of smug superiority about their shit tier country if they don't scream themselves hoarse about other people making their food?

>>10740093
Not at all the point I was making.

Also since we are being purists, croque monsieur normally does not have bechamel but who cares?

>>10740111
Carbonara is a style of cooking egg with pasta.
Use the right words.
You are making what I'm sure is a delightful *cream sauce*.

because I truly believe no other country/culture has had their cuisine bastardized to the extent that Italians have, at a global scale
imagine being Italian and seeing an """"Italian"""" restaurant at other corner in any major city in the world, only to go in and realized it has nothing to do with it's origins
I kinda understand their reaction
and it's not like their the most easy-going type people in the first place

>>10740054
Hmmmk
No thanks :)
Im still going to call all my pasta dishes as italian

>>10740093
You don't make a croque with bechamel.
t.grenouille

>>10740120
Adding a splash of cream to the eggs makes it not eggs anymore?
Also I have never cooked carbonara, just used it as an example of a recipe Italians get unreasonably hostile over.

I'm quite a fan of mixing up italian dishes OP for example I've added carbonara elements such as bacon to the concept of a marinara, 'bacon marinara'. Italians just don't want to feel like their culture is so easy.

because it's actually gross? 2bh even amerimutts do the same despite the fact they don't even have cuisine: well done steak, ketchup

>>10740121
muh cultural appropriation

>>10740179
what even is that

It's even better when Americans go "my mothers italian!" as if living in dumbfatisclap hasn't ruined their tastebuds

>had it made with pasta water or cream by real Italians
>cream is better
>chef uses cream in his recipe

>>10739810
>Why is no other country this stupid and annoying with their recipes?
Amerilards are the same. Try suggesting adding beans or corn to chili con carne to an inbred texasfag, adding or subtracting relishes from plastic chemical meat paste hotdogs, styles of pizza, hamburger construction, etc. The difference is italians are talking about real food whereas the so-called "food" americans gnash their teeth about doesn't fit that category.

>>10739810
>be me
>sculpt beautiful sculpture of a bird out of marble. My art is so good that it gets world wide recognition all over the world.
>one day some dipshit comes up to me with a mound of shit formed to resemble a bird somewhat.
>tells me. LOoK iT'S juST as goOd as YoURs!
>tell him it's shit and it has nothing to do with me
>dipshit totally spergs out
>WHY ARE SO ANNOYING REE! WHY DO YOU ALWAYS GET SO ANGRY REEEEEE
>he then waddles off to make the same thread every day on the cooking board of his Chinese cartoon forum to get reassurance from the other retards that his mound of shit is a work of art

>>10740121
>what is chinese food

I bet not 1 (one) of you in this thread is Italian.

>>10739810
>Why do Italians get so angry if someone uses cream in carbonara?
Buzzfeed said so

>>10740501
Food snobs are the wurst

its just fuel, and if it tastes good, great

Literally nothing else matters aside from sanitation

>chef uses garlic in carbonara
>Italian chefs sperg out

>>10740594
>use thick cut bacon instead of guacimale

Italians are not white.

>>10740133
ça depend

Cream is the best part of carbonara and what brings the whole dish together.

>>10739894
I don't know what carbonara did you eat but usually it's absolutely NOT dry

>>10740158
>Never been to an authentic American restaurant
You've never had real American food. It tends to be a little unhealthy (I stress, just a little, if it's the real deal), but damn is it delicious. Why don't you come on over and try real American food
>And don't you dare try making it yourself the way you like your food

>>10740451
>Never actually been to America
Can't tell you how many pot luck dinner I've been to that had some amazing dishes

>>10739810
IT'S A SACRED TRADITION THAT IS LESS THAN 100 YEARS OLD

>>10740583
>it's just fuel

all your opinions on food are henceforth discarded.

>>10740546
I am, I was lurking because you can't reason with mongoloids. imagine if all the europe will start to make Hamburgers with shit and call it Americans

>>10739810
This
Italians are the fucking worst

Ameriguineas getting upset about "their" culture being appropriated when they've never been to Italy, can't speak Italian, etc. are faggot losers.

>>10741245
>imagine if all the europe will start to make Hamburgers with shit and call it Americans

>italians getting mad about "appropriation" when their entire cuisine is based on the tomato that they appropriated from the americas

>>10739810
In winter, 1 teaspoon of cream allowed, per serving.

>>10741385
> based on tomato
thanks for showing us that you don't know shit about food.
north Italy doesn't use tomato Almost at all.
you know like pesto, carbonara, risotto, polenta, rösti, frico and many other dishes I don't need to list because it is clear that you are an American uncultured swine

>>10740093

>>Croque Monsieur, but with ... meatloaf instead of ham.

This sounds goddamn delicious tbqh.

>>10741509
>angry italian noises

>>10741535
>look ma, I'm doing the retarded again

holy shit imagine getting this mad over a mediocre pasta dish with no real history to it

>>10741564
maybe your carbonara is mediocre, mine is really delicious. it's not our fault you are a shit cook

>>10741577
the dish itself is mediocre. A half step above mac and cheese with chopped-up hot dogs. But hey, I mean, if you like that kind of thing I'm not going to judge.

Which reminds me. I will be the last to say that there's a lot of great food in the Netherlands, but I don't think it's all that bad, especially when it comes to simpler stuff
But this one Italian guy has been here for 8 YEARS and the first time he joined for beers with some friends he brought up how shit the food is here like every hour, it went from "huh" to annoyance, and finally, to being amusing that he was so bitter about it. He literally couldn't think of one places he'd eaten at that he liked

This thread taught me everything I needed to know about postmodernism.

>>10741591
yep. it is so mediocre it's made and appreciate iln almost all the world even in USA and Japan. but you're right all the world is wrong and you are the only one that understand the mediocrity of a dish.

Or, more realistically, you have really shit taste and making the critic doesn't makes you enlightened but just dumb

>>10741628
Hot dogs are eaten all around the world too but that does not mean they are som culinary masterpice

>>10740501
>le food is le art
bad meme

>>10741628
>mcdonald's is popular, therefore it's haute cuisine
mediocre pap is popular because morons lap it up

>>10741648
hot dog is not a recipe, Mac and cheese is, but it is eaten only in your shit hole and some adjacent country.

While carbonara is so mediocre it is eaten worldwide.
please stop embarrassing yourself, just act like an adult and take into account you have a shitty opinion

>>10741663
Bro it’s just pasta, why all the anger?

>>10741656
let's rephrase it:
Carbonara is made worldwide in restaurant and houses.
It must be shit, so popular

>>10741668
> I make a stupid comment
> bro le mad XD
I wasn't mad ''bro", we don't get mad with special kid, "bro"

>>10741663
>big macs are eaten worldwide, therefore they're worth getting assmad over
carbonara is literal fast-food tier

>>10741670
most often people make it with cream tbf

>>10741681
>Made all around the world
>Get mad when someone does not make it my way

>>10741683
please enlighten us on which other restaurant and home made dishes are popular like carbonara. it's not even fast to make.
you know you're wrong just stop acting retarded. please trip yourself so I can filter your post xoxo

>>10741592
I hate to break it to you anon but Dutch food is shit tier. Whenever I am in the Netherlands I basically stick to steak and salad. The other stuff is barely edible. If it wasn't for the good looking girls, I would have crossed the country off the map entirely.

>>10741698
>popularity guarantees quality

>>10741687
because it is more difficult to make it with eggs only. you need cream if you are a shit cook. And eggs only will be even creamier and tastier if done properly

>>10741509
>northern Italy
You mean south Austria, or Tyrol? Keep making excuses tomato-humper.

>>10741716
so the most popular variant of the dish is the one you are getting so worked up over, and the one you are using to argue for its quality

>ITT: Angry Italians
Reminder that the only thing that separates Italy from the rest of the third world is their food, so they overhype it, piss on everyone else, and defend it religiously.

>>10741710
adoption guarantees quality. Since it's not fast nor easy must be good

but all the world must had a stroke, what you know

>>10741719
> Lombardia and Liguria is Austria
your education really is showing

>>10741727
>the entire world eats mushy rice with half-rotten fish and calls it sushi
>pointing this out is somehow wrong

>>10741739
where in the world eat rotten fish? the fuck are you talking about?

>>10739810
>he watches a lot of television

>>10741737
>Lombardia
Was Austrian until 1815, as I stated, south Austria. I know little about Liguria.

>>10741763
>can't even read
no wonder you get so worked up over a dish that isn't even traditional

>>10739894
>Carbonara
>Dry
How'd you manage that?

>>10741739
Japanese people don't get worked up over people making new variations of sushi.
There is plenty of good bad sushi in Japan and plenty of good sushi outside of Japan.
Are you implying food is only good when it is made by people from it's country of origin?

Thread is about Italians getting worked up over nothing.
Thread fills up with Italians getting worked up over nothing.

>>10741778
I was confused by your shit analogy and logic capacity.
if the world started eating Rotten fish must be right in some metric.

it is not the case because it taste like shit so I don't really know what are you trying to imply.

please retain yourself for making analogy, you have not the mental skills to make pertinent ones

>>10741799
why are you thinking we are getting angry? just because we correct you doesn't mean we are angry, it just mean you are wrong

Somehow I get the impression the whole 'absolutely no cream allowed' nonsense is mostly a South Italian thing who want to be different from the north for the fuck of it. What would be just another reason to ignore the whole bullshit.

>>10741819
They just don't have as many dairy farmers as the north and get hypocritically obnoxious about tradition, and I say hypocrites because their cuisine revolves around trade and imported foods.

>>10741803
>I could make a thread about baguettes without a bunch french people coming in to educate me about how it is not "real baguettes"
>I could make a thread about hamburgers without Americans coming in to talk about how it is not "real american".
>Make a thread about pasta and Italians spend a good portion of their day being condescending and calling you names for not doing it their "authentic way"

Why are you people like this? Even French and Americans are more likable.

>>10740664
>ça depend
ça depend de quoi?

Well with Ragu Bolognese, I understand them Itakers perfectly. There's this original recipe from 400 years ago, and it's notarially certified. But with Carbonara, they don't even know themselves 100% sure how it's done.

>>10741774
you know little about anything. Italy was not always unite. there were 3/4 division under different culture.

but to correct you, Emilia, Liguria, Roma and other center Italy regions don't use a lot of tomatoes, I don't think a need to list the dishes, make a research yourself

>>10741835
> Why are you people like this?
because being like this made our food one of the best in the world, we love food.
you want to bastardize receipts without being annoyed try with Filipino's, but their food has not the same quality

>>10739810
there's really no need to put cream on a carbonara to make it creamy, if prepared correctly.
egg yolk and cheese will do.
buf feel free to put extra fat in an already high-fat food, you lardass, who fucking cares.

>>10741835
also try to convince USA to continuously shout that their cheese or wine is better than the French one and they will literally shit in your face

>>10741889
Harassing people for not cooking things your way is typical chimp behaviour to be expextect from Italians

>>10741903
Wut?

>>10739810
because italians have no achievements other than making food

>>10741903
French cheese is nothing special, the English do better.
French wine is still the King though.

>>10741930
we chimps have good food and most beautiful country and women, o seriously don't give a fuck about what Steve Stevenson thinks. stay jealous

>>10739810
because cream doesnt go in carbonara
because you always fuck it up
because they suck at it
many such cases!

>>10741869
>b-bu-but but we weren't always a country
So your excuse is that your cuisine was never your own because you're a newly founded country from a bunch of other countries and kingdoms, including territory from Austria that was incorporated AFTER America became a country?

That's not even a defense at all.

>>10741964
Your delusions of grandeur are amusing

>>10741974
what? you stated that Lombardia is Austrian because it was under Austrian control.

by that logic Italy doesn't exist which is dumb. but let me low to your level and discard Lombardia. you have Friuli, Liguria, Emilia and Lazio which don't use much tomatoes in their dishes. I try to be safe but I could include other regions and going with Al least 1/3 of Italy that don't use much tomatoes

>>10740093
Croque Monsieur literally means 'Mr. Crunch' and is basically just french grilled cheese sandwich, it was always designed as a quick snack.

>>10741981
while we had parliament you were painting your faces and hunting moles.
Retardation is in your DNA, I don't mind your insult :^)
we will continue to be your women's fantasy

>>10742017
>Delusions of grandeur
How’s that gdp per capita working out?

>>10741974
Oh look, it's literally autistic!

>>10739810
>spend many years learning cooking styles/concepts/techniques from all over the world
>incorporate many concepts into one dish to draw out the best depth of flavor, etc.
>traditionalists and purists get pissy because it's not done their way
Not even talking about Italians and pasta, in general, but people can fuck off with that rigorously adhered to cooking ideology. Dishes are allowed to exist in traditional and "modern" forms.
>it's not the same dish
Who the fuck cares what it's called? Does it taste great? Okay, then fuck off with your retarded autism.

>>10742096
>"modern" forms
>adds cream and makes a frittata
R E V O L U T I O N A R Y

>>10742109
>Not even talking about Italians and pasta, in general...
What is reading comprehension?

>>10739810
>Why do Italians get so angry
You could have stopped there. Their entire society is based around bitching about things.

>>10742121
general contains the Italian pasta argument

>>10742145
what the fuck did you tell about me you little cuck bitch negro, go put some oil into your boiling pasta water so it will give that final push into clogging your useless arteries and you can fuck off once and for all into a goddamn body bad until your rotten colon bacteria enjoy eating your disgusting remains (which only a fucking bacteria would want to touch you greasy sweaty permavirgin)

>>10741699
"Dutch" food is, which doesn't mean that restaurants here are bad, there's plenty of God places to eat at which don't serve the shit that dutch people came up with
there's loads of cultures with amazing food and restaurants that serve it

>>10742160
And what about the notion of adding on to Italian pasta dishes in a way that is appreciated by a large number of people's palates is wrong, other than pure traditionalism? Irrespective of my opinion (which is inconsequential), if people enjoy a modified recipe, let them enjoy it. The changes don't have to be all-encompassing or revolutionary, like >>10742109 this cunt mocks, but if it still tastes good, who cares? It's a close-minded mentality, thinking that, which only limits what you can cook.

>>10742214
>if it still tastes good, who cares?
literal 3rd worlder

>>10742220
Not an argument. Not even bait unless the anon's actually from a 3rd world shithole, which I doubt they'd have time to waste during the day on a shitty Chinese stir frying board. Try again.

>>10742227
>grug thinks this not argument
>grug wants good explanation to why he retarded

>>10742083
>I've been called out on my circular logic, better call him autistic.

>>10742239

>>10742220
>Italians calling others third worlders
>Literally afraid of angerig the pasta god by letting people cook what they want

>>10741652
Just because you stuff your face with wendys all day like the fat pig you are doesn't mean food isn't in fact art. Fucking Amerisharts

Why americans are so fucking obnoxious and oversensible about any degree of criticism?

>>10741245
>>10741359
>>10741245
>imagine if all the europe will start to make Hamburgers with shit and call it Americans

and if your garndmother had wheels she would be a bike

>>10742210
The restaurants are precisely bad. The ones serving local food aren't worth visiting and the few international ones don't bother with the quality as they know that Dutch people don't have much of a palate.

The difference in food quality between Brussels and anywhere in Holland is staggering. I have nothing against the Dutch personally but I understand where you Italian friend is coming from.

>>10739810
>Why is no other country this stupid and annoying with their recipes?
Are you kidding? French cuisine was codified from the top down generations ago. But with Italian food the dishes are all seasonal and regional. And often very good. In order to preserve that the traditions of each region are adhered to by those who live there. Maybe not as tightly as they have been in the past, but still pretty tightly. Because Italians know abandoning those traditions will result in their loss, and consider cuisine an important part of their culture. They're proud of their culture and don't want to see it lost. Like many other European countries they know food quality taking a dip is part of the price usually paid for cheap, convenient industrially produced food. So they've passed laws to protect traditionally produced regional foods. Because they agree foods produced in those ways have value as part of their national identities.

This seems absurd in the US because we industrialized earlier, and are now in the third or fourth generation of eating dishes created by the likes of Betty Crocker and Cornell University. Many of our per-industrial food traditions have been lost. We can't see them as valuable because we don't even know them - they were gone long before we were born.

But with Italians in particular there's another thing operating. When Italians came to America they created a new cuisine - Italian American. It's very popular in America and other parts of the world, where it's often called "Italian". Italians have a little chip on their shoulders because Italian American bears only a resemblance to what they know as Italian food, and usually consider it nowhere nearly as good as they regional food they grew up with.

>>10742299
>entire thread is a wop freaking out because somebody added a little cream to carbonara
>AMERICANS ARE SO FUCKING SENSITIVE

>>10742329

fucktard troll

>>10742373
Have you been to Holland? Pretty weak restaurant culture, and the cuisine isn't all that much to speak of. Just not a priority to the Dutch.

>>10742299
weak ego and mutilated benis
that's why they also buy lots of guns

>>10742373
>being this edgy

>>10742361
And for some reason there can't be both traditional AND new cuisine? When you learn to cook you often start with traditional techniques because they're honed over centuries. That knowledge is preserved because it works, and for that reason it will never disappear. That doesn't mean you can't make additions to it, though, or rather, that you can't attempt to make additions to it. They could be complete shit, but you don't know until you try. And if there are a large number of people that agree with the change, then let them be. Clearly it works for more than a handful, so it's not just a niche taste.

Imagine if that was the mentality that we took in scientific research. We certainly wouldn't be shitposting in this ocean of piss, if so.

>>10742439
Let's be honest tho. You did nothing of that. You put a shitload of cheese on whatever dish and call it a R E V O L U T I O N

>>10742329
>16 million people "don't have much of a palate" just because they were born on a specific patch of land
>measuring a nation's "palate"
>a casual tourist's opinion somehow counts, based on the week of stay and 3 mid-range bars he ate in
>anywhere in Holland he's never been to
>I judge the food but I only eat stake and salad
nice one anon
there's a good reason people here are starting to dislike tourists; by all means go to Belgium from now on

>>10741509
Rösti is made with potato
Polenta is made with corn
Sorry i need to be a pain but you prove his point, fren

>>10742439
>And for some reason there can't be both traditional AND new cuisine?
There most definitely is. But if you grew up with a mother who made you kick ass renditions of your great grandmother's kick ass recipes you might not be so open to new stuff.
>Imagine if that was the mentality that we took in scientific research.
That would be stupid. Science is about trying to understand the world around us. Cooking is more like music and the arts - it's a cultural expression meant to give us pleasure. No reason not to make new music and art, but denying the centuries of popularity Mozart and the Dutch Masters have enjoyed would be foolish. Same is true for Bordeaux wine.

>>10742469
>Let's be honest tho. You did nothing of that. You put a shitload of cheese on whatever dish and called it a R E V O L U T I O N
Hey, it could be absolute shit to half of the population, but the other half enjoys it, so, that's cool. Let them enjoy it. I agree there should be a differentiation (naming or something) so that people understand the difference, but that doesn't make the people that enjoy it wrong for enjoying it. Keeping a close minded mentality prevents people from trying new things in the first place, it doesn't matter what you're discussing.

>>10742477
>you might not be so open to new stuff.
If you don't try it, you don't know.
>That would be stupid... Cooking is more like music and the arts - it's a cultural expression meant to give us pleasure.
Which means it's subjective, which further means that if a large population enjoys it (the change), it must be doing something right for THEM. I may hate it, but it clearly works in some way (that I don't like), but has wide appeal to some group of people. Just like the arts.
>No reason not to make new music and art, but denying the centuries of popularity...
So we agree? Note that I said:
>You often start with traditional techniques because they're honed over centuries. That knowledge is preserved because it works, and for that reason it will never disappear.

>>10742476
he was questioning the tomato dominance, not the entire indepence from ingredients discovered in other parts of the world

>>10742471
>16 million people "don't have much of a palate" just because they were born on a specific patch of land
To be fair growing up in a culture that values cuisine and has deep rooted food traditions will give you a different perspective than growing up in a less food-centric culture. People's appreciation for food is shaped by the culture they grew up with, and the bar for what's considered good is much lower in Holland than Italy.

>>10742477
Your argument males no seanse, modifiyng a recipe does not shit on it’s legacy ir erase it from history.
Not everyone has to follow your strict food ideology.
I’d rather cook with creativity and freedom then following tradition.
Why do you care so much if something is not authentic? Just do things your way and leave others alone.

>>10742510
The potato and corn come from the Americas as well, Luigi

>>10742471
>by all means go to Belgium from now on
The butthurt is strong on this one, though I though you guys were chill as fuck. You still haven't stated a single argument in favour of Dutch food or the local restaurants. I'll wait.

>>10739810
>be italian
>your entire cuisine is based on stolen asian noodle tech

>>10742514
can you read bro? you sound like you cant read

>>10742513
>leave others alone
this thread was made exactly because you dont want to be left alone
talk about obsessed

>>10742507
>That knowledge is preserved because it works, and for that reason it will never disappear.
There's where you're wrong. We watched it happen in 20th Century America. Industrially produced food became cheap, plentiful and tasted OK. Plenty of folks stopped cooking entirely. Within two generations you had people who knew nothing else - their baselines were set so low they can't imagine why someone might spend hours cooking from scratch or drop lots of money to eat at a place that serves local, seasonal cuisine. Burgers, pizza and heat and eat meals have replaced traditional knowledge for a shocking number of people. Most (thankfully not all) of pre-industrial American cooking has been lost. Even the varieties of produce and animal breeds have disappeared.

>>10739919
>>10739919
You're right, it isn't strictly speaking carbonara but you would be correct in calling it "carbonara and/with cream".

>>10742528
There is just no point in trying to reason with you

>>10740093
False equivalence. An addition to a dish isn't the same as removing/substituting a core ingredient or changing the fundamental cooking method.

>>10742541
Fucking based.

>make spaghetti
>put spaghetti water on the spaghetti
>wala!

Italians are probably the worst people on the planet

>>10742513
>Your argument males no seanse
Someone who does not see the value in tradition wouldn't understand.
>Just do things your way and leave others alone.
A statement like that just shows you did not grow up with food traditions, and are unable to understand their value. You don't have to. Not being part of a tradition means it doesn't matter what you do. There's nothing of value for you to protect.

>>10742541
are you a commie? you sound like a freedom hating anti gun commie

>>10742562
>I must force my believes and values on others

>>10742576
cornered and on full damage control
>>10742562
good job, especially
>There's nothing of value for you to protect.
was probably unwillingly cruel

>>10742581
>Damage control
What are you even talking about?

>>10742576
Nope. But people who subscribe to the "just do whatever you want" school of cooking are usually those who haven't had much experience with good food. They eat things like chicken Alfredo and think it's yummers.

>>10742541
And most other (Western, if not all other) countries went/are going through a similar process, correct? Yet their food traditions remained intact? Perhaps your anecdote has more to do with local cultures than it does with the notion that knowledge either disappears or is preserved, given how intrinsically that is intertwined with the way in which that society views/perceives the relative value of preserving that knowledge. If a society views a certain type of knowledge as having little forward value, maintaining a close minded attitude towards acquiring future knowledge will have little affect on whether it will preserve its current knowledge base. While I completely agree with many of the sentiments you're making, I completely disagree that that is a reason to maintain a black and white view of ANY topic that boils down to a mutually exclusive mentality.

>>10742592
OR, perhaps, just perhaps, it doesn't have to boil down to that myopic view of cooking (or anything). You realize you can bell well-trained in traditional cooking and then decide to use that knowledge and extend it elsewhere. That's a thing.

>>10742612
>correct?
no

>>10742592
Then don’t eat it if you don’t like it? Just because people don’t have the same exact tastes as you does not mean they don’t know good food. People like different things in different places around the world, that is not a reason to bullu them into doing things your way.

Anyway I am done for today, have fun arguing.

>>10742627
So other nations didn't industrialize? That's what you're saying?

>>10742612
>You realize you can bell well-trained in traditional cooking and then decide to use that knowledge and extend it elsewhere. That's a thing.
Of course that's a thing.
But in my observation the majority of the people who are claiming "just do whatever" don't have much in the way of skill. They end up doing silly things because they don't know any better.

>>10742636
Nice ancdote

>>10742636
>Don't have much in the way of skill.
That's their fucking problem, and anyone can call them out on it. But that doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with the notion of preserving traditional concepts and attempting to then build on them in new and interesting ways.

>>10742612
>While I completely agree with many of the sentiments you're making
he wasn't stating a sentiment you faggot, but hard facts.

>>10742633
here a fast tutorial for you bro
1) reread the previous posts
2) realize you are very dumb
3) stop posting
cheers

>>10742657
Actually he was giving anecdotes retard

>>10742657
Read between the lines you fucking cockmongler. The sentiment being expressed was that the preservation of traditional knowledge is important, both in and of itself, and to ensure that future generations can have access to that knowledge for historic/cultural/etc. reasons. All things I agreed with, but with that caveat at the end. Or can you not into subtext?

>El goblina New York Italians acting like they still have some connection to the motherland other than their immigrant granny sucking every dick she could to get on a boat
Lmao

>>10742520
>get a (You)
>buddhurd xD
>haha no arguments
>another internet argument won!
>phoneposter
welcome newfriend

>>10742675
>I have never been to the US
Yep, we figured that out.

>>10742675
>i will deny reality until statistically proven wrong and even then i will question the basis of your data or call some jew conspiracy into it
stay mad fatty

>>10742581
>unwillingly cruel
It's true, though. Those with not food tradition to protect have no reason to see the value of tradition. If your dunk pizza in ranch dressing you're not going to understand why someone would follow grandma's recipes religiously.

>>10742727
If you don’t site sources your “hard facts” are just anecdotes

>>10742757
oh but i agree on every point
i just think that was a fatal strike, either he would stop posting and kick the bucket or deny until death

>>10740121
It happens with any food you falseflagging mario

>>10742671
>reread the previous posts
Okay, so someone says that the US loses its food culture due to industrialization. Someone else then responds by saying that other nations have undergone industrialization yet kept their food cultures intact.

Then, someone responds by saying that the second statement is not correct, so: (1) they're either saying other nations have undergone industrialization and have not kept their food cultures intact, which is false and the whole basis for the conversation, or (2) that other nations didn't industrialize.

If they're trying to claim that other nations didn't undergo a similar process wasn't a direct reference to industrialization by itself, but instead referencing both industrialization AND a loss of food culture, then they're a fucking idiot that also can't into context. Particularly the next sentence.

>>10742643
Usually it's true.
>>10742612
>You realize you can bell well-trained in traditional cooking and then decide to use that knowledge and extend it elsewhere. That's a thing.
Agreed. And the small number of folks who can successfully come up with new spins on tradition are chefs whose names would be familiar to people who follow restaurants. Bottom line is you have to be exceptional to have something you come up with beat the combined wisdom of tradition. Brilliant people can do it. But most who try to come up with stuff on their own aren't brilliant. They're simply ignorant, so they don't know any better.

>>10742757
>If your dunk pizza in ranch dressing you're not going to understand why someone would follow grandma's recipes religiously.

What makes you think it must be one or the other? I take cooking very seriously, but if I'm stuck eating crappy pizza during an airport layover why wouldn't I dip it in ranch? You act like it's impossible to simultaneously appreciate cheap food and carefully crafted food at the same time.

And as for Grandma's recipes--I have several that I adore. But I don't follow them religiously because that's not possible. My ingredients, cookware, and oven are not the same as hers so it would be silly to blindly follow her recipes; I taste the ingredients I have and adjust accordingly.

>>10742798
you ignored all 3 points, i am very not happy

>>10742813
>What makes you think it must be one or the other?
David Chang would agree with you. It doesn't HAVE to be one or the other. It's just that in practice it usually is.
>I don't follow them religiously because that's not possible. My ingredients, cookware, and oven are not the same as hers so it would be silly to blindly follow her recipes;
And why is that? Because your culture did not place enough value on its cuisine to preserve traditional cooking in the face of industrialization. Places like Italy, France and Spain worked really hard to do so.

>>10742798
>Okay, so someone says that the US loses its food culture due to industrialization

I think that's a simplification. Industrialization certainly had a big impact, but that's not the only one. In addition to industrialization, the US is a relatively young country that didn't have a centuries old specific food culture, unlike most other countries. The US also has always had a massive amount of immigration, so you have a mixture of cultures all in one place. The combination of industrialization, lack of an entrenched pre-existing culture, and influence from all over the world combine to make US food culture what it is.

>>10742809
>Bottom line is you have to be exceptional to have something you come up with beat the combined wisdom of tradition. Brilliant people can do it.
That's true in any field.
>But most who try to come up with stuff on their own aren't brilliant.
Does that mean we should discourage any and all people from trying? Do you think those brilliant people would have been able to come up with brilliant ideas if people were constantly shit on them, telling them not to? It would be MUCH harder.
>They're simply ignorant, so they don't know any better.
Or, perhaps they're just trying a path with a high rate of failure and small chance of a reward. If it's new enough, then you don't know until you try.

>>10742823
Such is life. At least we can all be unhappy together in this shithole.

>>10742843
That's actually one of the underlying motifs I wanted to go toward that amounted to the difference in cultural values when it comes to preserving culinary knowledge (see >>10742612). Completely agree.

>>10742838
>It's just that in practice it usually is.
I doubt that. I know a lot of people in the high-end of the industry and they all appreciate at least some kinds of crappy food just as much as the expensive stuff at the restaurants they work in.

>>And why is that? Because your culture did not place enough value on its cuisine to preserve traditional cooking in the face of industrialization
I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. My grandmother was a literal farmer. She cooked on a wood fired stove. Wood fired stoves aren't allowed in my downtown apartment, so clearly I have to compensate for that. She grew her own veggies, chickens, and pigs. Needless to say that's difficult for me to do as well. So I compensate as best I can.

>>France
funny you mention that, that's where my grandmother was from. The rest of the family which still lives in France don't cook on wood stoves or raise their own chickens either.

>>10739894
>>10741788
actually cooking the shit out of your sauce until it becomes scrambled eggs

>>10742850
>>Bottom line is you have to be exceptional to have something you come up with beat the combined wisdom of tradition. Brilliant people can do it.
It's not just wisdom that can provide success here. It can also be something very simple that anyone could have access to: *different* ingredients.

Yes, traditional recipes have been honed by generations of expertise. But they were also limited by the ingredients of that local area. Nowadays we aren't limited to cook with what things grew locally. We can easily get ingredients from all over the world. And you don't have to be a brilliant genius to take advantage of that.

>>10742878
That's another good point.

>>10739810
>Why do Italians get so angry if someone uses cream in carbonara?
>Why do they always complain whenever a non Italian cooks something Italian?
>
>Why is no other country this stupid and annoying with their recipes?
Would it be nice to call

>>10739810
If you draw a zebra, you don't call it "horse with lines". There is no carbonara with cream. There is no basketball played with bats, it' just another thing.

>>10742645
>But that doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with the notion of preserving traditional concepts and attempting to then build on them in new and interesting ways.
Agreed 100%.

I was simply pointing out that based on empirical observation it rarely works out though. Does that mean people shouldn't try? Of course not.

>>10742036
Pastaniggers BTFO

>>10742850
>Does that mean we should discourage any and all people from trying?
If you're cooking for yourself do whatever you like. But most folks aren't interested in eating someone else's experiments. Even when they're really talented. I lived just a couple blocks from wd-50 for eight years and never went. Not because I'm a Luddite, I'm happy to drop some serious money for a well executed riff on a classic dish that's a favorite of mine. Or a classic I have yet to try. But I'm a lot less interested in being shocked or surprised at the table. Usually all but the most jaded restaurant goers are with me on this one.

>>10739810
In Italy we have a dish with the same ingredients of carbonara, without yolks. It's called "gricia", it is not called "carbonara without yolks". You can put whatever you like in you dish, put you can't call it "carbonara". IMHO

>>10742899
>tfw i use parmigiano instead of pecorino because the lidl pecorino tastes like a hot load of letame
>roman gipsies cant stop me

>>10740095
It is not hostility in cooking our food, is about changing it keeping a name given for something else

>>10742885
And it's not limited to ingredients. We also have new technology at our disposal. We have computer controlled cookers (of various types) that maintain temperature far better than old fashioned fires. We have pressure cookers, sous vide, microwaves, and all sorts of more exotic things: thermomix, pacojet, combi ovens, rotavap, etc. Modern knowledge of chemistry has given us all sorts of things that were impossible with prior knowledge. We can now make heat-stable gels to give just one example.

I agree we should learn from, and respect, classic recipes. But to assert that they are somehow "perfect" and impossible to be improved upon is just plain silly.

Imagine, for example, what Careme and Escoffier could have done if they had access to modern science & modern cooking tools?

>>10740130
You can call it Susan if you like, but that makes you just more idiot

>>10742560
yet you are able to fuck this up, astonishing isn't it

>>10740546
Se lo dici tu

Perchè stiamo ancora cercando di rispondere in modo argomentato a questi poveri coglioni? Cucinino quel cazzo che gli pare. Mangino la merda che vogliono nel modo che più li aggrada. La maggior parte di loro non è uscita neanche dal loro stato, figurarsi dalla nazione. Mi immagino un panzone che metterebbe la panna pure sulla merda. È chiaramente un post fatto da un troll.

>>10742895
>But most folks are interested in eating someone else's experiments.
>I'm a lot less interested in being shocked or surprised at the table. Usually all but the most jaded restaurant goers are with me on this one.
As long as people keep trying new things, that's cool. Everyone has their own tastes. It's when people get so hard-lined into a mentality that is black and white (even if when talked to they then realize they're not actually as hard-lined as they thought they might have been) that it benefits absolutely no one.

>>10742909
>Modern knowledge of chemistry has given us all sorts of things that were impossible with prior knowledge.
This is probably the area I'm most excited about. Particularly the categorization of ingredient aromatics and the pairing thereof. We have now, essentially, a somewhat empirically rigorous way of categorizing cooking technique and methodology based on chemical traits that guarantees a certain result if repeated exactly, like any other mostly deterministic field.

>Imagine what Careme and Escoffier could have done with access to modern science and cooking tools.
Please, anon, I can only drool so much.

>>10742941
i know plenty of italians who put cream in carbonara or turn it into scrambled eggs
threads like this are far from ironical
my baits are tho
also you sound unironically triggered Gaetano

>>10742909
And to expound on this, there's also the matter of access to information.

A hundred years ago your cooking skill was pretty much dictated by what your family taught you. Perhaps if you were very wealthy you could travel and apprentice under a well known chef. (Go back a little further and even that was impossible)

Today anyone, even in a 3rd world country, can pick up their smartphone or tablet and watch a world-class expert demonstrate. A poor person living in a flyover trailer park can have Ramsay teach them to make Beef Wellington, Pepin teach them to cook an omelet, and Morimoto teach them how to make sushi. We also have easy access to fantastic books on the subject too. The access to information about cooking and the science behind it has never been better, and that's a major advantage that a modern cook has that even the most skilled traditional cook never did.

I made an hamburger with fish... but i don't want to call it "fishburger" i want to call it "hamburger with fish"... that's the core of all this discussion

>>10742962
>can have Ramsay teach them to make Beef Wellington,
>Implying the uber clownish Ramsay is a good chef
Fucking Kek

>>10742988
He's fucking entertaining, regardless.

>>10742986
this, plus a subtext of americans feeling an attack at their rickety identity

>>10742955
I know plenty of americans who came here and told me their country is literally full of uneducated people about food.

>>10742955
Triggered Gaetano si tira fuori il cazzo, e a tua madre lo mette in mano.

>>10742988
It's boeuf en croute, faggot, and it's a french dish.

>>10743000
no heritage test with timestamp, no proof

>>10742986
So adding something to a dish is the same as removing or replacing a core ingredient? Regardless, "hamburger made from fish" or "fish hamburger" would be fine.

>>10743023
just call it freedom fish wtf are you like 4yo and dont have room for a new word in your brain

>>10742798
>aced the LSAT
Based!

>>10743023
On point

>>10742918
No need to get mad mario, by disregarding that “recipe” and adding cream you get a vastly superior dish

>mention "guanciale"
>the mutt starts hyperventilating in panic of the unknown

>>10743081
>Nigtalian calling anyone a mutt

>>10743081
its amazing how defensive people get when confronted with stuff like that. a normal person would just google it if they didn't know but a mutt reacts with defensiveness and anger, its wild how stupid they are

>>10743098
>the mutt trying to be an authority on who is white
lol, pathetic

>>10743041
You can put it wherever you like... then send us a picture of your 600 pounds life

>Somebody slightly changes your recipe of carbs and grease
>Autistically screech at them
>They laugh at you

>>10743029
He will call it carbonara with no guanciale, no pasta, no yolk, no pecorino... lol

>>10743158
>being so upset about being corrected that you eternally post on 4chins about it
stay mad faggot

>>10743181
*laughs*

>>10739810
>Why is no other country this stupid and annoying with their recipes
you've apparently never been to an american bbq pit

>>10743626
actually honestly thats a good comparison

Who gives a fuck what they think? They're just butthurt other countries are always improving their food.

>>10739810

There's really no need to put cream in carbonara. Simply use more egg yolk and more cheese.

Also make sure you're doing it properly and whisking the egg, pepper and cheese together before you pour it over the piping hot drained pasta and mixing.

>>10739940
Have you ever even made carbonara? It doesn't need anything else, you've got cheese to satisfy your dairy itch.. blah blah personal taste yeah well your taste is shit

>>10744968
>Missing the whole point this bad

>>10740097
better than you limey/bugernigger

>>10739810
Carbonara wasn't even invented in italy. I assure you the "italians" calling Niggala out are literally just amerimutts with an italian great great grandfather.

>>10739894
Yeah you just a shitty cook. It's not the italian's fault that you make scrambled eggs on pasta

>>10739940
It IS a different recipe you dumbfuck boomer.
Try using fatty bacon and more egg yolk, also if it's dry then add some of the pasta water.

>>10745017
Nothing "needs" anything. The world doesn't even need you. It tastes different with cream, and some people like that taste better. That's all.

lets take a moment to laugh at all americans adding garlic to carbonara for that "extra kick"

Imagine being American and going to China. While you are there you order three American dishes.

The first dish you order is eggs benedict. Out it comes but with soy sauce instead of hollandaise.

Then you go with a cheeseburger. Out comes a steak sandwich with tofu.

Finally for desert you order an apple pie and a pineapple pie comes out with a side of green tea yoghurt.

When you protest that the restaurant is fucking up your shit the owner tells you to go fuck yourself, and when you refuse to leave he offers to tear up your bill and give you a free hot dog if you will just go away. Out comes literal dog meat.

>>10739894
>Dry carbonera
do amerimutts really do this?

>>10740136
Then what the fuck are you talking about? Fuck you and fuck your idiotic bait thread.

>>10740583
The absolute state of /ck

>>10740501
This but unironically

>>10741607
kek

>>10741835
Fuck your shitty strawman, you know perfectly that this is not true. I have never seen a french person "educating" anyone ever.

>>10742521
>noodle tech
what the fuck

>>10742560
If you don't know how to cook then what are you doing on this board?

>>10739840
>https://www.eater.com/2017/7/5/15924670/nigella-lawson-carbonara
I wanna add cream to Nigella Lawson.

BWAHAAAAA WHY WONT THE WORLD TELL ME IM GREAT EVEN IF I ARRANGE A NICE DISH OF MANURE

>>10740451
>no beans in chilli
That ain't chilli

>>10741592
Nothing wrong with the following, of the top of my head: stamppot, hutspot, snert, poffertjes, dried sausage, roggebrood, dutch cheeses, herring, mussels, eels, hachee, uitsmijter and rundervink. It's not exactly fine dining, but it's nice hearty food.I didn't even mention any sweet stuff or colonial (indonesian) dishes. If he likes none of these things, he's just a faggot

>>10741699
Wrong, see
>>10745766

>>10740583
why the fuck are you on a cooking forum then
this board actually needs to get more snobby. its one of the boards on here thats mostly memes.

>>10742329
>The few international ones
I live in a city with 200.000 people and the restaurants here are amazing. Anything from hole-in-a-wall secret gems to ordinary fastfood to a thai place where all the cooks are thai women. We've got three 3-michelin star restaurants.
You just went to the wrong places really

>>10740583

I want the fast food faggots to leave. I swear, at least 60% of the people on this board never cook anything themselves and have no real culinary knowledge or interest whatsoever.

>>10745791

>this board actually needs to get more snobby. its one of the boards on here thats mostly memes.

This anon has the right idea.

>>10745851
It’s just a matter of time: think of all the shitposters that have been hounded out
>food pics from Japan
>Joey/jack fags
>al/ck/
>/sip/ tards
Just got fight retardation where ever you see it and judicious use of filters and reporting
The guys in the IRC are pretty proactive as well.

>>10745851
boiling egg threads get to bump limit bro, there is too much of a difference in sheer numbers, cooklets are the overwhelming majority