/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>10540053
American wine has beaten French wine over and over again, Achmed

>>10540053
Now tell me about wines from other regions

>>10540053
I'm going to Argentina for a few weeks. I hear they have a good marbec. which one should I try?

>>10540053
Sonoma-fag here, the reason is there is a ton of variety, it's cheap (compared to imports), and it feels good to support the home team.

Plus, it's fun to go get drunk in the beautiful countryside. Try it.

>>10540073
Argie malbec is shit. The only wine they don't fuck up is torrontes, but the dumb ass Argies believe it's a trash wine because they are Argies and have no taste.

If you want to know what malbec should taste like try a cahors.

>>10540094
what the fuck is a torrontes? I that a grape/type of wine? also, what is a cahors?

I'm travelling light and can only bring back maybe 2-3 bottles in my checked luggage. What are some good bottles to bring back sub ~$15? thanks anon

>>10540090
>there is a ton of variety
No there isn't. And what little variety there is you guys like to obliterate with adulterants, which is why California ''''pinot noir''''' tastes exactly like petite sirah for some reason

>>10540114
are you even an alcoholic? you don't know what you're talking about.

>>10540053
>minimum 14.97% ABV no matter what kind of wine it is
I assume this is hyperbole?

>>10540127
I know exactly what I'm talking about. California doesn't believe in stuff like terroir or varietal character, they think that's all oppression by Europeans, so they make sure to grow at least 10 different varietals in each AVA, but all 10 are obliterated into anonymity so that you can't tell sauv blanc from chardonnay and you can't tell pinot noir from petite sirah.

The only grape you seem to have any actual respect for is zinfandel and it's too expensive for what it is.

>>10540113
It's a grape. And cahors is a wine region of France.

If you can pick up Don Melchor when you're down there as long as it's not fake, bring that home. It's from Chile, a neighboring country that doesn't suck at wine.

>Quietly overtakes France and California as the premier wine country

>>10540136
If you open any article or documentary or fucking pamphlet written by a California winemaker they will mention terroir and it's importance.

>>10540053
california produces good wine, the problem is that the wine only starts getting good at the 50 dollar range and stops being worth it around the 150 dollar range, and even then, it's only worth it if you're looking for fruit-forward wines

>>10540191
>accidentally makes top bang-for-buck wine in both the white and the dessert category

>>10540191
Good taste
>>10540241
Yuck. Gruner is terrible, tired of blaufrankisch, and good St Laurent is hard to find.

>>10540053
>he doesn't drink Australian wine

>>10540247
>he doesn't like his wine to taste like canned green beans
>he doesn't like the literal only wine in the world that can be paired with asparagus and not suck

laughingsluts.jpg

>>10540249
http://store.penfolds.com/50-rare-tawny

thanks for shopping ere cunt that'll be three thousand five hundred american dollarydoos

America's got a lot of nice wineries these days, it's pretty fun. My family's got a place on lake Ozark in Missouri, and I know of two in easy driving distance that have really great atmosphere and views

>>10540339
Some friends live near Virginia wine country and we go hit some when we see them a few times a year. Beautiful country, extremely cozy colonial farmland. I don’t know enough of wine to comment on what I’ve had other than “I like it”.

>>10540407
Pic, Rappahannock winery.

>>10540266
Penfolds is garbage, just costs money because Chinese cunts buy it and resell it for 3x the price overseas.
I've had the Grange (600-800 a bottle) in 2001 to 2011 vintage and they all sucked complete ass in comparison to good $100 Aus wine

>>10540419
I used to be a member there

the fundamental problem with virginian wine is yuppies and DCites drive the price up to average 30 bucks a bottle with the insane demand, when it shouldn't be a dollar above twenty for 90% of the wine

>>10540425
post a great straya wine, not disputing your claim, just woefully underinformed on everything except shiraz

Give Texas wine a try
Recently took a trip to Fredericksburg TX and there are about a hundred local wineries in the area, some on the cheap side and others more expensive.
Spent a day there with my SO for our anniversary and spent about 50 bucks at multiple wineries to taste about as many wines, and came home with 5 bottles.

>>10540053

There are lot's of good wines coming out of CA that aren't "old money" Napa. I've also had plenty of garbage and/or overpriced wine in Europe; there just isn't the same culture about it in the States so cheap wine is of a much higher quality in a lot of places in Europe compared to the US. But yeah, a lot of Napa is hype at this point.

KY used to be wine country

>>10540136
>Can't tell an exceedingly mild red from a red so renowned for it's tannins it's usually used as an adjunct to a blend

I don't think you've ever had a true, pure petite sirah.

>>10540154
lol, good to know, thanks anon

>>10540154
sorry to spam. but to follow up - torrentes is a good wine to buy in Argie?

>>10540070
Washington

>>10540637
Yeah also Oregon and Sacramento valley CA. Napa doesn't even produce most of California's wine, the San Joaquin valley does thanks to Mr. Gallo

>Don’t talk to me, my son, or my nephew ever again.

>>10540677
Mmm sweet red. Goes perfect with Prego spaghetti

>lived in central CA for 3 years
>went on wine tours with friends every weekend

>this one tastes like paint thinner and rotten tomato juice
>this one tastes like vinegar and rubber
>this one tastes like dirt and burned wood

how does anyone pay to drink this shit

This shit is so good.

Beer has way more potential for variety and depth of flavour.
I'm sad that beer tasting and craft beers is such a meme-ridden hipster subculture.

Where the fuck have you cunts been? Ive been trying to post wine informal shit on this board for years and its mostly autism.

Shout out to OP, and Hungary bro. you've brought me some faith back in to this Honduran minced meat board.

>>10540053
You are an uniformed, ignorant moron. Yes, i can or could go on, but why bother when dealing with idiots like you? Please, stay away from Californian wines, they don't need or want you.

Argentinian wine > Californian wine

>>10541171

>>10540485
I fucking swear to fuck I'll take you OUT.
I'm from Fredericksburg, and because of the years long drought, there's been no significant grape production. Guess where those wineries are getting their grapes from? FUCKING NORCAL. Mainly Lodi, CA. Now fuck off, please, Auslander.

>>10540456
It's a bit hard because price is such a big factor. There is a nice $30 cab Sav from bowen estate which is a great entry level wine, Cullen has nice red blend styles such as CSM for $100+, though my favourite Australian wine is pic related - a nice 17% intense red that really should be the standard Australian wine goes by

>>10541151
Usually mods delete these threads
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>>10540771
The most cancerous people in "beer culture" [sic] are the ones who complain about hipsters and memes. They believe that they are special because they are lonely and mad at everything, and they would do anything to make craft beer unpopular in order to feel like brave sophisticated elitists on account of drinking something that isn't bud light.

This is why they get so angry at the influx of capital investments especially from larger highly experienced beverage industry veterans such as AB InBev.

And this is why they're afraid of wine, since wine has an established culture around it and they can't just rely on obscurity in order to fool others into thinking they have taste.

>>10541636
Ouch

>>10540443
thing is it’s expensive to make a functional wine industry where none exists and you have to subsidize the local talent development instead of hiring experienced locals. and all the equipment and supplies have to be shipped in from france or california because there’s no one around selling it let alone knowing how to set it up

>>10540053
That reminds me, I need a wine list to check off while I'm in Italy. Got any recommendations?

>>10542418
Depends.
Where abouts in Italy?

>>10540191
Ouch fampai, youre close but didnt quite get there

>>10542422
Tuscany, for sure. I'm gonna also be stopping in Venice and the Vatican if they have some sort of secret Papal wine.
There's a place I want to go in Venice because my parents went there, but they forgot where it was. My mom was pregnant with me and a local store owner let them in when she got cravings during the early morning. When he found out she was pregnant, he gave them a whole bottle of champagne, and if I can somehow find him or his kids I'd like to pay him back. It's pretty unlikely though.

France:
Wide variety and lots of quality but plenty of cheap nasty piss as well. Best to do some research.
Germany:
Reisling is fucking awful. Nothing else of note.
England:
Some decent sparkling whites from the southwest. Nothing else of note.
Australia:
Nothing of note.
USA:
Some reasonable whites bit all the reds are awful.
Spain:
Awful.
Greece:
Awful.
All my opinion based on countries I’ve actually visited.

>>10542432
You’ll be spoiled for choice in Tuscany.
Venice is pretty impressive but beware it’s a massive tourist trap and they will try and fleece you.
I ended up paying €20 for two coffees in St Marks Square.

>>10542451
>can’t spell riesling
>has a loud opinion on it anyway
Fine with me, keeps the prices low for the good stuff.

All riesling is simple mass produced blue bottle garbage, the only good white wine is chardonnay

>>10540053
>sweetness
americans overwhemingly like sweet food and drink
>oak, more oka, moar oak
americans cant even think for themselves except in terms of memes, and as such overvalue little things like what type of wood is used for barrels

anyway, for me, it is australian table wine, the most cost-effective and inoffensive of the wines

>>10540053
I went to Sonoma a few years ago in the winter expecting crowds and shit I can't afford but ended up having a great time, meeting good people and drinking tons of good wine for cheap. It was a great experience but I'm not a wine afficianado.

>>10540053
the yanks do some really really fucking excellent wine but yes; it's rarely cheap
Russian river shi is my jam
alternatively the Hahn pinots are excellent (2012 is still drinking slick)

Has anyone here had any experience with Georgian wine? I saw some in a Russian import market but I knew nothing about it and didn't want to throw down $35 on a blind guess.

>>10542543
my local pizzaria has a cropped print of this image, i always thought it was original because it's so fucking ridiculous

>>10542546
A lot of the stuff in slav markets is sugary soviet style shit, but the really traditional stuff can be awesome

>>10542480
>>10542451
>Germany:
>Reisling is fucking awful. Nothing else of note.
Any opinion on gewurztraminers? They've always been my favorite white. And I've always been fond of Rieslings too but it's orettyy apparent how you feel about that

>>10542586
This was some little market in Little Odessa in Los Angeles. All the good looking wine (maybe even all period I don't remember) was imported from Georgia and a lot of them had these really elaborate ceramic bottles like pic related, but I'm always wary of wines in really fancy bottles.
Kinda wish I got some desu, but its like an hour and a half of driving that I am not up for that more than a once every few months

>>10542423
I drive past finger lake a few times a year and holy shit are there a ton of wineries and vineyards there. There's about 30 of them right in a row.

>>10542621
Yeah steer clear

If you ever see Pheasants Tears buy it

Made by an ex American intelligence officer who autistically follows old pre-USSR winemaking practice

>>10542601
Not terribly versatile but it’s good if you pair it right, or on its own

>>10542636
I found one online for $16. I think I'm gonna go for it, but it's a bit cheaper than I expected. I would have thought it would be at least $20

>>10542683
It’s not anyone’s idea of a fine wine, it’s bretty and funky and has a lot of VA

But it’s highly enjoyable if you’re already into the natural wine scene, also it can go for days after popping the cork unlike some more sophisticated wines

>>10542693
Well you've sold me. At least for the $17 it'll take to foem my own opinion

>>10540485
>Spent a day there with my SO

back to lebbit faggot

>>10540053
American wine is just better.

>>10540053
>despite this, somehow it's still tasting sweeter than HFCS from the HFCS factory
If California wines are sugar water, what the hell does that make pic related? Besides utter swill, obviously.

>>10543478
manischewitz doesn’t pretend to be something it isn’t

>>10543444
>moar is better, quality is a hoax
confirmed American

>>10540053
There is no such thing as good 'cheap' California wines. Europe is a bit more mixed but the problem is the higher costs in manufacturing boost the amount it costs and the distance makes it even more expensive. Good luck finding good cheap European wine in the US thanks to the distance.

On the other hand, there are plenty of other places that have surprisingly good wine for the cost. Which I appreciate as a poorfag. I can still enjoy wine if I'm willing to look around in the underrated sources.

>>10542423
You're both off by quite a bit.

>>10540094
Argentianian malbec isn’t as good as a top tier Cahors but that doesn’t mean it’s all shit.

>>10545358
>Good luck finding good cheap European wine in the US thanks to the distance.
Don’t need luck, just need a liquor store that doesn’t suck

>>10543478
I have never enjoyed this and every fellow jew I've met thinks it's a meme and drinks it as an irl shitpost (or out of """tradition""") and then moves on to real wine.

I more often see it served to kids who aren't ready for a proper wine but are down to turn up on what is essentially foritfied grape juice

>>10545490
I mean might as well just drink plum wine instead, since it tends to taste less like liquefied candy

>>10545490
You probably just don't live in an area where people take wine seriously. They make actual "good" kosher wine, mostly from Israel unfortunately. Pic related is very popular in my area. I personally avoid products made on stolen land, so I haven't tasted it, but to my understanding it has to be boiled before adding yeast, so it's still never going to be exceptional wine, although it's probably better than Manischewitz.

I believe there are a few kosher wineries operating upstate that make "good" wine but my curiosity hasn't been strong enough to look for it.

>>10545490
My friends and I will crush a bottle or two of ‘schevitz at our annual Pork Kippur party

>>10542423
they make a nice reisling

>>10540759
my nigga

>wine snobs
At the end of the day you're just an alcaholic in denial.

>>10540129
it's shitposting
the thread should have been moved to /trash/

>>10546713
>When they bring a spittoon alongside the wine sample flight

>>10542451
You have no idea what you're talking about, please let the adults talk. Go post in a beer general you idiot.
>>10542601
Any wine man worth his weight in salt knows that Riesling isn't shit, it literally is one of the more complex white wines that comes from the old world. Go drink some VDP Rieslings then talk some shit.

Gewürztraminer is a wonderful grape, tastes like lychee syrup to me personally, age-worthy and complex. Look for examples coming from Austria as well as Alsace.

>>10546713
Truth in the thread

>>10542586
The ruski's used to produce copious amounts of juice for consumption, think Italian table wine but more shit

>>10541636
I agree with you, but wait until you meet these new wave wine fanatics, they are shite people.

>>10546926
what a pretentious faggot, but I guess that comes with the territory

>>10546926
>tastes like lychee syrup to me personally
I like how you added the "personally" as if that is not the mainstream depiction of gewurtz

>Falling for the grape jew meme

>>10540677
>>10540686
>Mmm sweet red. Goes perfect with Prego spaghetti
This but unironically. Are you really so pretentious as to not occasionally enjoy some classics of boomer cuisine?

>>10547202
Yes, I am. You know there are options besides semi-sweet jug wine, and bone-dry mouth puckering oak juice? Try a barbera, or a lambrusco, or a basic valpolicella DOC

>>10545522
>I personally avoid products made on stolen land
Wowie you sound like a good person

>>10547213
>lambrusco
Love that memory

>>10547214
>people only do things to show off how moral they are
Let me guess without belief in the afterlife we'd all be murdering and raping?

>>10547226
Who said anything about the afterlife lol
Land is conquered, not stolen. Vae victis

>>10547263
Doesn't your browser plugin have a more active thread to go astroturf? This is a wine thread, we really don't care if Israel is the only democracy in the middle east or whatever it is you're supposed to type next

>>10542423
It's a regional dialect

>>10547287
Boohoo wine thread or a whine thread?

>>10547304
"Technically, you can be other religions"
"But some of them might have had rocks in their pockets"
"You can't judge us unless you've been here"
"But several countries have an even worse human rights record"

There, I think you're done. Move along now.

Well unless it's something like Opus or Screaming Eagle where the demand really drives the price, my theory about California wine prices is that they might mark certain wines up to affect people's perception of the taste.

The memes are true about jammy, super-sweet California "cabs". The memes are also true about the oaky, buttery "chards". These are the tastemakers and the cornerstones of the noveau riche. But honestly, every wine has a share of individuality as a general statement and worth a try if it isn't some fake bullshit.

>>10546926
>Any wine man worth his weight in salt knows that Riesling isn't shit, it literally is one of the more complex white wines that comes from the old world. Go drink some VDP Rieslings then talk some shit.
>Gewürztraminer is a wonderful grape, tastes like lychee syrup to me personally, age-worthy and complex. Look for examples coming from Austria as well as Alsace.
A Gewurztraminer and a Riesling were the two first whites I ever picked out for myself when I was old enough to develop a taste independent of what my parents drank.
And in this post>>10542601 I was just quoting the guy who said Riesling was shit. I hold the exact opposite view, just to be clear

>>10547287
>This is a wine thread
Says the fag that whined about Israel unprovoked.
>it's okay when i do it but you're not allowed to contest my shit posts

>>10547297
I fucking hate that this became a meme. For a week I seriously thought there was some surge of 4chan users in Utica and I could finally have a nice normal thread shittalking your favorite place to get riggies.

>>10547315
You walked into this faggot. This >>10545522 was a pretty insightful post that taught me something I didn't know, but you had to fuck it up by bringing up some political issue I couldn't give a shit about right now. I don't winepost on /pol/ and I don't israelpost on /ck/. I'd tell you to go to /pol/, but we don't want you there either.

>>10548092
I didn’t “walk into” anything. People are allowed to decide which wines to drink and my decision not to drink Yarden, whether it offends you or not, is both relevant to the discussion and my decision to make. If you decide that makes me some kind of political radical then that’s your problem.

>>10548133
>You probably just don't live in an area where people take wine seriously. They make actual "good" kosher wine, mostly from Israel. Pic related is very popular in my area, although I haven't tasted it, but to my understanding it has to be boiled before adding yeast, so it's still never going to be exceptional wine, although it's probably better than Manischewitz.
>I believe there are a few kosher wineries operating upstate that make "good" wine but my curiosity hasn't been strong enough to look for it.

I just reformatted your post to give the exact same information without the pointless political shit.
>People are allowed to decide which wines to drink and my decision not to drink Yarden, whether it offends you or not, is both relevant to the discussion and my decision to make. If you decide that makes me some kind of political radical then that’s your problem.
Whether you choose what to drink or not drink is not the issue here and you know it. That part is relevant to the discussion. What's not relevant is shoehorning your politics into unrelated discussion. Is Israel right or wrong? I don't know. I don't care. What I care about is that you've heard Yarden is good by the standards of Kosher wine, but haven't actually tried it yourself, and that kosher wine in general is not very good due to various restrictions in preparing it. When you write something, ask yourself what people are here for and what they care about. If I made a post about taking a wine tour in Napa, it should focus in the wine, not the time I spent in the hotel pool and how I nearly ran out of gas on the way there. No one cares about that.

>>10548217
> If I made a post about taking a wine tour in Napa, it should focus in the wine, not the time I spent in the hotel pool and how I nearly ran out of gas on the way there. No one cares about that.
Except this is about the wine not the hotel pool. A better analogy would be if you decided to skip the tasting at Darioush because they trap the grape marmots and skin them alive for their sumptuous fur. Note, there is no such thing as a grape marmot, I’m just giving you an example of the kind of “not wine” comment that’s still about your relationship with a wine or lack thereof, and therefore relevant, assuming you consider Darioush to be even a noteworthy tasting stop which is of course unlikely but I’m trying to lighten the mood here since everyone is all butthurt now that I didn’t censor myself

>>10548264
Let's just agree to disagree about what constitutes "on topic".
I may be oversensitive myself. I browse /pol/ for like ~5 hours a day, but occasionally I need to decompress and reconnect with the world outside of ideology politics, so I come here or go to some other interest board. Thus seeing anything even remotely political is more likely to anger me than someone else who doesn't really care about the subject

>>10540053
Just drink goon straight out of the bag, you cunt.

>>10540053
The good US wine is made in Oregon now

when did this board get overrun with boomer housewife facebook normies? get the fuck off my /ck/, you’re lost>>10540053

Have any of you faggots ever tried ice wine? Opinions on it? Would like to try it but it's rather expensive to just give for without a little research

>>10549886
I've always wanted to do a tour of the world, drinking what hardcore alcoholics drink. Malt liquor in the US, goon in Australia, shit vodka in slavland, shit beer in the UK, etc.

>>10540053
Are you guys all sommelier class tasters and fucking yourself out of the ability to enjoy cheap wine ... or are you deluding yourself?

>Economic theorists maintain that wine is an experience good, a product whose quality can be evaluated only after purchase and consumption. Theory holds that consumers often rely on the price of experience goods as one cue to judge their quality. In this paper, however, I provide evidence that an important segment of wine consumers do not consider price a useful cue to quality. Specifically, I test the robustness of Goldstein et al.,'s (2008) finding that, in blind tastings, average wine drinkers consider less expensive wines to taste better than more expensive wines. Four blind tastings of 2006 red Bordeaux and 2009 white Burgundy with a price range of $20–$119 were conducted, in which members of a wine club rated their extent of enjoyment of each wine. In three of the tastings, there was no relationship between price and enjoyment, while in the other the relationship was negative, lending additional credibility to the contention that an important segment of wine consumers do not find enjoyment to increase with price.

>>10551670
You have to make some sacrifices to be able to drink a girly drink and pretend you're not a fruit.

>>10551670
hahahahahahaha Cooper's Cock
I work there. Glorified Cheesecake factory with wine.
AM FUCKING A
(pic related it's our autistic CEO that can't even smile like a real human)
google this guy literally all of his pictures look exactly like this

>ice wine is bretty good though. Just expensive

>>10551722
$20 is not cheap. $119 is not expensive. Four wines is not enough to detect any observable patterns. One wine club is not enough to generalise about all wine drinkers.

If you chose a hundred wines in a $3 (yes, three dollars) - $600 price range, to be tasted by thousands of people, stratified by self-identified wine knowledge, I'd bet the data would be more interesting.

>>10551744
Not 4 wines, 4 tasting sessions.

>Four tastings were conducted, each involving six wines. One of the Bordeaux tastings focused on Right Bank wines (Pomerol and St. Emilion) and the other on Left Bank wines (St. Estephe, St. Julien, Medoc, and Pauillac). In each tasting, two wines were in the $99 – $119 price range, with the other four progressively less expensive down to $22. The objective was to include wines across a substantial price range that are widely available to average wine drinkers.

Wine tastes good. i drink it out of empty coca-cola cans. i feel more alive when it's

>>10551722
Why are beer general flyovers so obsessed with “proving wine is a scam” by posting stuff about the price? Am I supposed to be outraged that overspending is overspending? What do you think wine is for?
>>10551801
Still avoids the point. $22 isn’t a bad Bordeaux by any means

>>10551738
Anon there's no picture there

The problem with California is that theres a lot of vintners who produce wine but don't actually own the grapes or the vineyard. Generally the vintner will bid on a certain yield of grapes each year to be produced into wine, and then once they have grown they'll ship it to the vintner. And because you have every yuppie and their niece wanting to "own a winery" you get a little of people bidding and bottling on not so tasty wine.
That said, there are plenty of great wines in the region. I can't say much for other parts of the state, but the central coast has a few really great ones. I generally drink Pinot noir, and the good ones they make around here are Meiomi and Hahn. Both can be had for around 20-30$

And also to address OPs point Californians use oak in everything because it's native and we have tons of it.

Wine is for faggets

>>10547213
True fags don't party with Uncle Carlo

>>10551670
I posted the tongue in cheek Erie wine country picture above. I’ve had some really good ice wine from there. Expensive, but very tasty

>>10552370
>_>
goddamn I was drunk
look at this retard

>h-h-hey anon, you wanna come to Coopers Ha- Oh okay, nevermind
>It's getting kind of late anyways, m-m-maybe tomorrow?
>oh well, j-just call me something I guess

>>10540053

buying californian wine to drink at home is OK. you are fucking retarded if you buy it in a restaurant though.

>>10542451
Hey stupid yank, I'll let you know you illiterate whales get sold spanish wine re-labeled by your countrymen into french and italian names all the time because of your laughable laws and "standards" regarding food. And you can't even tell the difference because of your rotten palates.
Get fucked 56%ers
the good spanish wines barely leave the country

>>10553715
>thinks Spain is so awesome
>has to learn English to use the internet
Keep the wine. I'll keep 70% of academic publications and over half the internet bubby

Wine tastes like shit no matter where it's from

>>10553780
>speak 4 languages
>yank on the internet brags about only speaking one

>>10553790
>b-b-but I got us a reservation for a wine tasting anon.
>I-i-i mean I guess we can just get a cheese plate. You know, if you into that
>No? Well okay. G-g-guess I'll just see you around

>>10553797
>speaks 4 languages
>only one really matters
I can drive a fucking car with my feet too. Doesn't mean it's useful

>>10553839
>being a monolingual brainlet in 2018

ITT : Worst Coast Cuckolds assblasted about their overpriced, overhyped memewines

Wine is for women and soys.

>talking about differences between wines that you couldn't even accurately identify in a blind taste test

>>10553983
this, literally paying out the ass for placebo

>>10553013
>the good ones they make around here are Meiomi and Hahn
shit tier bait, should have said mondavi or la crema and I might have fallen for it

>>10553715
t.brown moor guzzling kalimotxo out of a porron

>>10553686
Yeah that did sound like a drunk post desu. No sweat though.
And holy shit
>El Roboto Supreme
He makes Zuccerburg look almost human