/ck/ - Food & Cooking

But I'm already a pescatarian and I only eat fish a few times a week.

>are you gonna eat less meat?

It depends if it will impede technological progress and help take down industrial society.

>>10473516
I already eat very little meat. I'd much rather have a little bit of top-tier meat than load up on tasteless factory farmed shit.

>>10473542
>but i only eat wild animals, poached from the ocean
worse than vegans

>>10473567
Cool implication. Actually I eat extremely NON-endangered fish, like sardines and herring. And being able to swim free your whole life, followed by a short capture and death, gives me a cleaner conscious than eating factory farmed meat ever could.

>>10473516
I'd go vegan if there was a bigger market for it
vegan/vegetarian food gets expensive, even the cheapest stuff is still dollars more than the cheapest cuts of meat
you have to eat more vegetables in order to fill your diet in where meat would go, which is fine, but vegetables are expensive

farmers should really consider selling the uglier bits and pieces that they don't typically send out to market, especially for poorer families, that would really get everyone eating more vegetables

and we should also think about growing more herbs and spices here in the US
there's probably plenty of room out west, honestly, most of the US is just empty for no real reason

>>10473626
>you have to eat more vegetables in order to fill your diet in where meat would go
Use legumes and whole grains to replace the meat. Buy inexpensive vegetables like spinach, carrots, and other root vegetables.

>>10473653
Those are all still expensive
I can buy two meals of legumes or 5 meals of chicken, it's fucking crazy where I live

the industry just has to change for the american diet to change

>>10473516
1) yes, but by eating ethical meat you can still eat meat and help animals to be treated ethically in life and death

2) Plants take up more land and cause more deforestation. Did you know that crop production is not only unethical to animal homes destroyed for things like palm oil, but also to crop farm workers who are also unethically treated?

3) Eating too many carrots will turn your skin orange and kill your from over dosage of Beta-Carotene. By this logic, eating less vegetables will also stop you from dying.

If you want to give a good reason to stop eating so much meat, then it's because vegetables cost fuckall when they come from mass farming countries like Brazil where they get fuckall pay and only need to live in favellas.

>>10473663
>I can buy two meals of legumes or 5 meals of chicken, it's fucking crazy where I live
That sounds really weird to me. Where do you live? Dry beans last for years, why would they be expensive?

Regulated wild game hunting is an essential element of a sustainable ecosystem. Furthermore, do your research: Ethically farmed meat is good for the animals which never would have existed otherwise. You really feel like it's better to deny the potential for a living consciousness to live happily prior to experiencing the slaughter that awaits all life? No one would argue megacorp factory farming should be supported because that's equivalent to supporting torturing conscious beings, but a happy life culminating in humane slaughter to feed your overlord caretakers is a glorious event worthy of praise.

>>10473603
sardines and herring aren't species and many species considered sardines and herring ARE endangered

>>10473516
I don't have an ethical obligation towards animals just because they can suffer, I don't aknowledging that abusing them is inhumane
There is no proof of manmade global warming or wathever you call it now, so far any predictions made which where supposed to happen never happened and all they are doing is moving the goalpost
It all depends on what kind of meat you eat, how you eat it and what else you eat and it's a faulty argument because you don't know how much meat I eat so you don't know if I should eat less or more
Plats can't feel pain as far as we know, they definitely can feel otherwise they wouldn't grow towards the sun and the plants that eat bugs couldn't eat bugs and flowers wouldn't open during spring

>>10473567
More animals got extinct before humans became a thing than after, should we kill nature so it can stop extincting animals or should we just accept thats the way things work and it doesn't matter because thousands of years from now everything will be so different that you wouldn't recognize it anyways?

>>10473699
Go be a sanctimonious cunt on reddit. Your kind isn't welcome here.

>>10473736
nice faggot pescatarian argument

>>10473516
>Are you gonna eat less meat next year?
Because of your stupid thread, I will commit to eating more meat from now on.

>>10473516
What about lobsters that also
>Do not have nervous systems or anything structural that perceives pain. The fanciful research of Swedish liberal pseudoscience and any amount of wishful thinking will not change that fact.

>>10473663
I don't understand, usually when I go shopping to get vegetables/fruits I just get what's on sale or simply the most affordable for the time being, which is never a problem. I don't buy exactly what I want every time I shop, unless I feel like cooking with specific ingredients. Is everything always that expensive where you live?

>>10473736
>>10473736
>posts this >>10473603
>calls others sanctimonious
lmao

>>10473761
>>10473802
This guy >>10473736 isn't me >>10473603

>>10473770
>an anonymous yak miliking techniques board pissed me off so I'm going to do everything I can to contract colon cancer more rapidly

why do you seem to care so much about how other people live their lives?

>>10473879
>Something doesn't fall in line with my ethics and therefore causes cancer
The joke is that you are the cancer

>>10473516
no. i will continue to eat 2lbs of meat a day until i die.

>>10473819
then why respond at all? especially with that level of HURR REEDDDDIT faggotry?

yeah i try not to buy too much meat if I'm able
It's pricey anyway

>>10473971
>gives constructive response
get the fuck out

>>10473516
Well, at least you people dialed it back from telling people not to eat any meat.
It's a start.

>>10473985
Capitulation is for the weak, much like low meat intake.

>>10473626
Veganism is cheaper than a normal meat diet, you don't have to eat meat replacements every day, nor should you. Vegetables and legumes are cheaper than meat.

>>10473663
1 Can of Beans makes 2 meals, you're saying you can make two chicken meals for under $1? I get them for like 75 cents USD at Walmart, I can't imagine it's much more expensive anywhere else in the world

>>10473516
>The fanciful research of 19th century pseudoscience and any amount of wishful thinking will not change that fact.
Hahaha

>>10473516
Probably not. I was raised by a vegetarian so being able to eat meat was a special occasion sort of thing. I've been in full on every day is sunday mode ever since I got out of college and stopped having to care about the price of food

>>10473516
>1) We are the nature police now
>2) Cows destroy water
>3) The dose makes the poison

Could you be a bigger fag OP?

>>10473516

>>10473516
No.

>>10473516
1. The good outweighs the bad unless you eat so much meat that is stops becoming special, in which case the bad would outweigh the good.
2. The carbon footprint of agriculture isn't that high; the water footprint is high but is irrelevant in regions with lots of water
3. Just eat less then. Why deprive yourself entirely of the nicest food when you could just eat less of it and be perfectly healthy?

Also when it comes to fish. Who can with a straight face tell me that they give a single flying fuck if a fish dies unless it's an endangered species? With cows and pigs I get it because they at least appear to have emotions (although how they actually experience is unknowable), but with fish?

>>10473516
Why the fuck should I care about animals, especially when the vegans who preach this seem to hate humans?

You do realize that animals are not equal to humans right?

>>10473516
fine, but I'm not gonna like giving in to you ideologues

>>10473516
>meat causing cancer
I can see a cancer label for meat in California eventually :^)

>>10473516
I'm not a vegan. Even though I claim to believe in science and the science is overwhelming that the best thing we can do for climate change is adopt a vegan diet. Even not adopt a vegan diet, just be more vegan. It's like the Kinsey scale — like no one's really gay or straight — there's a spectrum. Like, just move toward the gay end of the spectrum of veganism. Carnivorous-fluid, like gender-fluid. I'm terrified about climate change. I would place my level of panic about the future of the planet somewhere between listening to Nick Cave and dry heaving on the bus. But I'm still not a vegan, because vegans are annoying. I'm a Jew, I understand what it's like to be right and irritating. Like most progressives, I believe that feeling sufficiently upset is an acceptable alternative to doing anything concrete. Like most Americans, I hope denial will save me. Someday I'll have to tell my kids, "Sorry, we had to move to Fury Road because in 2017 daddy didn't want to stop eating brisket." Maybe it's not me. I read that alfalfa is a water guzzler which California harvests for export to China to feed cows — the worst offenders for greenhouse gases — to feed workers to make our iPads. The solution to climate change isn't for me to stop eating meat because the offending meat is in China. We'd be better off to boycott Apple products. But Californians prefer apocalypse to a day without Words With Friends. For years, I've been Saint Augustine about veganism. Yes, but not yet. I love animal products too much. I've made my own bacon. I'm experimenting with cutting beef out of my diet and cooking more vegan at home. It makes me angry, but I like it. Less full, less sleepy, less heartburn. I would need to eat a whole lot more fruits and vegetables than ribs and scones to fill the hole of anxiety inside of me. But I will forage on — see what I did there? — for the sake of the planet, even though enjoying vegan food makes me furious.

>>10473516
>Are you gonna eat less meat next year?
No.

>>10475131
There's cultured meat grown in laboratory.
The biggest problem with it right now is quantity they can make and while they can grow muscle tissues I think they're still unable to add fat and blood to it, making it taste unlike real meat.

>>10473516
1. Don't care.
2. More people need to die.
3. My health is my concern not yours.

no.

When I see a cut of raw meat I start salivating but vegans are like ewwww

>>10473516
No you did nothing to change my mind
Guess im just an ethicslet

>>10473516
They're already dead when I buy the meat
Not my problem
Who wants to live forever
No

>>10475462
this is actually a good argument,if it's really that bad the government should tax it more or something

>>10475462
>beyond blue-rare, outright raw
>not crusted, but outright encompassed in cracked pepper
>wilted asparagus
>sauce looks like an Indian shit on the plate with random machete chops of shallots
>silverware is already on the plate

>>10473516
I only have one meal with meat per day. I also recently cut out dairy completely aside from cheese every now and then, and seldomly eat eggs anymore.

I'll stop eating meat when it stops tasting so good, cry moar faggot

>>10475530
>food needs to be a special amusement park faggot fun time to sustain me
lmao

>>10475535
>retarded
why?

>>10475560
>such a pussy you need special funtime flavors to eat
rofl

>>10475560
>I'll stop eating meat when it stops tasting so good
Imagine being this much of a petulant child.

>>10473516

>>10475576
>>10475578
>those white 'people' that niggers make fun of
is mayo too spicy?

>>10473603
do you not realize fish farms exist and they’re not humane

All farming is generally unethical, however plant farming is arguably the most unethical in terms of massive deforestation, land reformation, but also unethical treatment of farm workers.

>>10475482
>he is completely unfamiliar with both steak au poivre and haricot vert.

>>10475344
New pasta?

>>10475653
If that's au poivre they've completely ruined it, and if those are haricot verts they need to learn how to blanch shit. Don't defend that atrocity, it looks like some housewife poorly followed a foodnetwork recipe.

>>10475730
Obvious troll

>>10473516
What about mollusks? They don't have nervous systems. Do you consider it unethical to eat them?

>>10473516
1 and 2
Moral arguments. If you don't give a shit about those things, there is nothing to care about here.

3. You automatically assume the reader eats "too much" meat. How do you know that? For all you know, I eat meal once a day, 7 days a week. That's hardly "too much." That's normal, actually. To imply that's causing serious health implications is ridiculous and unfounded. And it assumes I don't rat any fruits or vegetables, to sustain complete nutrition.

Veganism/vegetarianism is a moral-based lifestyle. It's the only leg they have to stand on., when all other moderation factors are taken into consideration. Fuck off.

>>10473996
They are also inefficient by comparison for protien and nutrients per dollar but you are not incorrect

>>10475431
It also because of that lack many nutrients it is similar to protien powder in another form, no iron no minerals.

>>10475535
>haha he enjoys his food what a loser
I've encountered some joyless faggots on this site but good lord do you take the cake, why haven't you killed yourself yet?

Thinking this thread is just troll.
Lots of good arguments with no response from OP but lots of shit posting.
Pleasent day gents.

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

>>10473542
Same. I feel like I've found a happy median in my diet for now.

>>10475834
>There is no consumption under communism

>>10475604
They're probably just smokers with no working tastebuds.

>>10473516
OP is a faggot and a DYEL

>>10475954
the left looks too much to the past
there has to be something new in the horizon

>>10473516
>if it doesn't feel pain or have "emotions" it's okay to kill it
Time to lobotomize and paralyze every animal.

>>10473516
>Ethics: Farm animals are conscious they have a central nervous system and feel pleasure and sadness, excitement and resentment, depression, fear and pain. Killing them and confining them to small spaces is inhumane.
I'm with you from a cruelty standpoint, but
>killing them
You're going to have to demonstrate that killing animals is wrong, which means you'll have to demonstrate that their lives have inherent value. As far as I'm aware, human lives have value because of the meaning we imbue open them on an intellectual level. We have hopes, dreams and desires for our future, and we recognize this in each other and that's why we mourn each other's loss. Animal lives are stagnant and intellectually meaningless, meaning there's no difference if the animal dies today or tomorrow.

>>10473516
1) Not an argument, morality only applies to sapient life forms.
2) I'm not giving up my car and meat and lifestyle, especially because Chinese farmers will make the sacrifice meaningless
3) [citation needed]

>>10473516
fuck off vegan jew i'm not eating less meat

i'm not having children so i feel no debt to the earth
i didn't ask to be here and i'm not bringing anyone else in

>There aren't any nutritions you can't find in non meat products
>Meanwhile heme iron, carnitine, DHA, superior protein(people seem to grow stronger muscles from meat), and b vitamins

>>10473516
the water consumption is actually bullshit. It's essentially rainwater that goes into growing the grass or whatever.

I am going to eat more meat.

>>10476716
>human lives have value because of the meaning we imbue open them on an intellectual level
lol. you're off here. Human lives have value because each human can make your life easier/better.

>>10473516
>Fact: Plants do not have nervous systems or anything structural that perceives pain.
False

>>10476864
Utter nonsense.

>>10475760
It does make you a loser, and a literal baby, if a majority of your meals are recreational activity for you. It's amazing what giant pussies there are who identify this hard with stuffing the hole in their face.

how do you feel about eating meat rescued from the dumpster? is that ethical meat? would you eat it? (still cold, sealed and passes smell test)

>>10473516
Nah, I like dead cow flesh.

>>10476898
>r9k
it makes you human.

>>10475747
>They are also inefficient by comparison for protien and nutrients per dollar
Average cost of bulk red lentils: $1.69/lb
Protein per LB of red lentils: 40g
Average cost of a pound of beef varies, but when it's on sale, ground beef maybe $4.99/lb for lean
Protein per LB of beef: 112g

So at the end of the day, depending on where you buy either of these things, the price could vary where you're paying for between 18-28g of protein per dollar for either of these items. That's per dollar, however what about by weight?
There are 9g protein in a 35g serving of dry lentils. That's about 25.7g per 100g. Beef is comparable at 26g protein per 100g. Lentils are healthier while being comparable by price and by weight.

As for the nutrition argument, a plant based diet will almost always be far more nutritious than that of your average meat eater.

>>10476931
No it doesn't. Stuffing your gore with carnival ride tasty faggot treats is literally a 19th century invention. Hunter gatherers ate whatever the fuck they could digest.

>>10476939
with all this evidence asserted here... how could anyone deny what you say as truth?

>>10476934
Actually double checked this number, and there is about 117g protein in a pound of lentils. I misread the number when I looked it up. So dry lentils end up being far cheaper per gram of protein. In addition, it's worth mentioning that protein is not the penultimate macro it's made out to be. In fact, most Americans are consuming too much protein on average.

>>10476942
As opposed to all the evidence you presented to support your completely insane hypothesis? lmao

It's no more human about needing to be babied with tasty faggot treats than to be addicted to cigarettes or neurotically refreshing tumbler 300 times a day.

>>10476948
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982213004181

I only eat chicken that comes from a clean food factory.

meat eater "arguments" are sad. just sad.

>>10476956
I don't see anything here about requiring tasty faggot snacks every meal to survive, dipshit.

>>10476996
>and is basically impossible to maintain outside of modern first-world society
wow i guess it's a good thing we live in modern first-world society or that might actually be a reasonable argument.

>>10477001
my fault, i didn't know you were a nigger. probably a bit over your reading level.

>>10477006
>the "most natural diet" is infeasible in nature
really activated my almonds

>>10477008
>probably a bit over your reading level.
No, the study just doesn't say anything about requiring tasty faggot treats every meal. Food doesn't need to taste good. You can survive entirely on food you think tastes bad, or neutral.

Stop being such a pussy and start eating food for sustenance first, not happy faggot fun time.

>>10477015
>what is natural is always good
wow, never heard that argument before you stupid fucking hippy

>>10477019

>>10476996
What vital nutrients? Why are you even defending these stupid memeball posts?

>>10477022
>pretends hippies arent the ones advocating this vegan faggotry

>>10473516
>1
Implying animals have the same concept of suffering and emotional correlation as humans, the fact humans can be masochistic and also the fact that they're born into their lives and have no perspective assuming it's even possible for these animals to have them. You're also using "inhumane" in order to refer to something not human.

>2
There is no evidence that humans cause the climate to change significantly. See: The last ice age

>3
Some people eat too much meat so nobody should eat any? Also there are very complex nutrients to be found in these complex organisms. It is impossible to argue merely based on anecdote that a man who eats a whole deer, brain bone broth and all along with vegetables and fruits (as nature intended for our species) would be less healthy than a man who drinks only soylent.

>4
Plants actually have feelings this is literally supported by science even if it isn't completely confirmed yet.

All in all a 4/10 I'm sure the majority of the posts in this thread are made by retards who have no gratitude for the life that died to provide them nutrients. Do you think that's contradictory of me to say? They're still living things and their deaths and lives had meaning and you should carry on that meaning.

>>10477044
>makes a fallacy
>has the fallacy pointed out to him
>w-well vegans are h-hippies too!

>>10477019
>has an unnatural fixation on 'faggots'
ok. you have convinced me you never read the article. good job!

>>10477056
>advocate for a diet being the most optimal
>it's absolutely impossible in nature and thus had no effect on humans evolving into the dominant life form they presently are

>>10477059
>has an unnatural fixation on 'faggots'
I can use "bitch baby" if you'd prefer.
>ok. you have convinced me you never read the article. good job!
The article says nothing about requiring tasty bitch baby treats to survive. Stop being obtuse.

>>10477060
>it's absolutely impossible in nature and thus had no effect on humans evolving into the dominant life form they presently are
what does this have to do with anything? why do you keep trying to push this "it happened in the past and it's how we were shaped today so it's automatically good" narrative?

don't tell me you're so stupid you think eating meat in the modern is going to continue to "evolve" us despite it having fuck all to do with natural selection.

>>10476912
>is that ethical meat? would you eat it? (still cold, sealed and passes smell test)
yep, it's ethical. you aren't giving money to the meat industry

>>10477060
>he thinks buying meat from the grocery store is how humans evolved the way they did
fucking kek

>>10477064
>classic retard
>moving goal posts
only you have asserted 'to survive' in the argument. the original argument is 'it is human to want to eat things that taste good'.

>>10477078
>"it happened in the past and it's how we were shaped today so it's automatically good" narrative
Please, go feed a lion lettuce because "all that prior evolution has meant literally nothing, it has no effect"
>don't tell me you're so stupid you think eating meat in the modern is going to continue to "evolve" us
Animals will always evolve you stupid idiot, evolution doesn't suddenly stop until a species is literally extinct

>>10477093
>the original argument is 'it is human to want to eat things that taste good'.
yes, humans crave dopamine release. that's why people get addicted to meth. your argument is akin to saying it's human to get addicted to meth. it is, but that's not a good thing.

>>10476972
>>10476996
These two though.

>>10477099
>feed a carnivore lettuce
why would i do that? this might be new information for you, but humans are omnivores. they can sustain themselves entirely on plant matter.
>Animals will always evolve you stupid idiot, evolution doesn't suddenly stop until a species is literally extinct
what does that have to do with anything i said?

do you not understand how evolution works? how is meat in the modern world going to improve our chances of reproducing? through all the hormones injected into it that lowers sperm count? fuck no.

>>10477093
>the original argument is 'it is human to want to eat things that taste good'.
>>10476898
>>10476931
>american reading comprehension

>>10477114
>taste = very small dopamine release
>meth = overwhelmingly large dopamine release
>food and meth, same thing!
you have won this argument through your sheer stupidity. I will never be able to overcome your retardation through discourse.

>>10477114
>humans should never be happy because bad addiction exists
herbivore brains everyone

>>10477129
>humans are omnivores. they can sustain themselves entirely on plant matter.

>>10477048
hitler was a vegetarian

>>10477160
Name one nutrient that you can find in meat but not in plants. Just a single one. It can be a vitamin, a mineral, whatever. For example, cats need to eat meat because their bodies don't produce taurine, an essential amino acid. Our body, of course, is capable of synthesizing its own taurine.

B-12 is also not the correct answer here. It is produced by bacteria, not animals, and would be present on our produce if we didn't clean it so thoroughly. If you have your own garden and only lightly wash your produce then you will obtain b12 from it. But surely there's something else you were thinking of, right? You can name a single nutrient, can't you?

>>10477191

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants

>>10477158
>has to draw a strawman to defend stuffing his face with only toddler fun time snacks
>the only time he is happy is when eating
kek

>>10477203
Nice googling, friend. Let's have a look at your list, shall we?

>b-12
Already told you that this is not an answer.
>Creatine
Is not an essential nutrient. Your body produces its own creatine and has no need to get it from outside sources.
>Carnosine
Another non-essential amino acid. I feel like the rest of this list is going to be the same thing so let's pause here for a quick lesson. Nutrients are considered essential or non-essential. Essential nutrients are ones that are necessary to bodily function but the body is incapable of producing them itself, so they must be found from outside sources. Vitamin C, for example, is an essential vitamin because our body is incapable of producing it on its own.

Non-essential nutrients, on the other hand, are ones that are important to bodily function but which our bodies can produce on its own. You liver can synthesize both creatine and carnosine from other acids, making them non-essential. So while you're correct that they can't be found in plants, it doesn't have any relevance to the conversation since you don't need to find them in plants anyway. This is why I told you that taurine doesn't count, remember?
>Cholecalciferol
Again, your body produces this vitamin via sun exposure.
>DHA
Can be produced by the body from other fatty acids.
>Heme-iron
Heme iron is absorbed better than iron found in plants, but iron by a different name is still iron. There is ample iron to be found in plants and its bioavailability skyrockets if you mix it with the right foods.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2507689
>A higher bioavailability of the dietary iron can be achieved by increasing the content of food components enhancing iron absorption (ascorbic acid, meat/fish) or by decreasing the content of inhibitors (e.g., phytates, tannins). The key role of ascorbic acid for the absorption of dietary nonheme iron is generally accepted.

>>10477203
>>10477261
cont.

Also, heme iron is associated with a variety of negative health outcomes.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23708150
>This meta-analysis suggests that heme iron intake was associated with an increased risk of Coronary Heart Disease
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24243555
>Globally, on the basis of the systematic review and the meta-analysis results, a higher intake of heme iron has shown a tendency toward a positive association with cancer risk.

>Taurine
Already covered along with b12 in my first post. So that's it, huh? Disappointing. A list of non-essential nutrients and a kind of iron that's different than plant-based iron, but in an entirely negative way. Guess I'd better go back to eating meat.

>>10473516
Then I bring up another arguement, Farmers kill animals like rabbits and such to keep your precious vegetables safe.

>>10477250
>a regular component of his argument is calling people children for enjoying things

>>10477261
>>10477272
>Creatine is actually not an essential nutrient, because the liver can produce it out of other amino acids. However, this conversion process appears to be inefficient. About 95% of the creatine in the body is stored in skeletal muscle. However, creatine is also concentrated in the brain.

>Vitamin B12 is a nutrient that helps keep the body's nerve and blood cells healthy and helps make DNA, the genetic material in all cells. Vitamin B12 also helps prevent a type of anemia called megaloblastic anemia that makes people tired and weak.

>The reason is that carnosine is readily degraded by the enzyme carnosinase in the human body. You need to take enough to overwhelm the carnosinase so that "undegraded" carnosine can make its way to the cells of your body.

ITT a vegan reads some shit on Google, thinks he is an "expert" and runs down the street stabbing people who he suspects eat meat.

>>10477303
on top of this, thousands of small animals like rodents and birds are slaughtered in the combine harvester each year.

the argument against it is that factory farmed meat still suffers more and wastes considerably more resources and causes considerably more harm to the environment.

>>10477303
this
never mind the land taken from wildlife to sustain large scale crop production.
never mind the shit wages farm hands get paid.
never mind most of world produce comes from shitholes like Brazil where farmhands are basically slave labour.

>>1) Ethics:
Stopped reading right there

>>10477303
can confirm. I have killed an ungodly amount of mice getting into shit
>t.farmer

>>10477261
>Is not an essential nutrient. Your body produces its own creatine and has no need to get it from outside sources.
This is an outright lie but ok

I love how you dodged b12 as well. Doesn't fit with your meme lifestyle so you cover your ears and shout that it doesn't exist.

Also, tell me about leucine, l-carnitine and creatinin. Bonus points for not desperately tabbing over to veganlove.com or whatever to search for the answer.

>>10477318
>a regular component of his argument is calling people children for enjoying things

>American reading comprehension

>>10477318
I know what B12 does, thanks though. As for the other two, you're welcome to offer any evidence that the body's own production is insufficient. They are both non-essential nutrients and that's a simple scientific fact that no amount of paleo blogs can disprove.

If you stop eating Vitamin C for a few years, you'll likely die or at least suffer severe health issues. If the body's own production of creatine and carnosine is so inferior then why are there people who have been vegan for decades without suffering any ill effects related to them? Because they're non-essential and the body's own production is sufficient.

>"upgraded" carnosine
>heme iron
>thinks b12 comes from animals

Are you a legit brainlet or what?

i try but im fat and have no self control

>>10477365
>If the body's own production of creatine and carnosine is so inferior then why are there people who have been vegan for decades without suffering any ill effects related to them?

"When you tell blatant lies on the internet to support your theory" should be a memeball if it isn't already.

>>10475940
*medium

>>10477365
there is no naturally occuring source of b12 in the vegan diet

furthermore there are plenty of vegans whose brains are clearly degenerating due to lack of key nutrients. Just watch this video for multiple examples on video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU

>>10476934
>per pound
What about per 100 kcal though

>>10477395
>cherrypicked examples of idiots played over ominous music
yeah i can find all kinds of flat earth videos like this too

>>10473516
No?
Fuck off.

>>10477418
Watch the whole video rather than just the first 1 minute before you respond.
Also, you asked for 'any examples' of such individuals, I just gave you a video full of video evidence of many of them. Suddenly, your argument completely changes and I'm cherry-picking for providing the evidence you asked for of vegans who are fucked up from their diet. Really makes you think, doesn't it? Moving the goalposts, look it up pal, because you're doing it.

Also, you dodged the rest of my post entirely, and ignored this post
>>10477344
completely, presumably because you can't answer it.
I love how vegans just stop engaging when their bullshit, baseless diet is blown the fuck out.

>>10473516
Fuck no.

>>10477429
>you asked for 'any examples' of such individuals
no i fucking didn't. that was the other guy.
>I just gave you a video full of video evidence of many of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDO5nEMhffA

here's a video of many people who eat meat

>>10477439
still dodging

>>10477439
>all fat people eat meat

what a hilarious argument. Fuck off you are an unironic brainlet, probably because your brain [which is made up of saturated fats and cholestorol btw] is deficient in saturated fats, cholestorol, creatine, creatinin, l-leucine, Vitamins A, D, F, K2, Zinc, Iron and other nutrients that you desperately need but do not have.

>>10477439
>vegan logic

And I can post a picture of an obese vegan, doesn't mean all vegans are obese. Holy shit you are retarded.

>>10477344
>This is an outright lie but ok
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine
>Creatine synthesis primarily occurs in the liver and kidneys.[3][4] On average, it is produced endogenously at an estimated rate of about 8.3 mmol or 1 gram per day in young adults.

>I love how you dodged b12 as well.
I didn't dodge it. I explained that it is produced by neither plants nor animals.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
>B12 is produced in nature only by some prokaryotes (certain bacteria and archaea); it is not made by any multicellular or single-celled eukaryotes.
And is foolish to cite as some kind of magic answer to veganism. These bacteria exist on plants and in soil as well as in animals and food from your garden, lightly washed, would contain b12. Produce in first world nations is lacking b12 because all these bacteria are washed off. Regardless, I do supplement b12 because most of my food comes from a store and I see no reason why getting b12 directly from the bacteria which are its only source is somehow worse than getting it from the same bacteria that live in animals. They live in you too, they're just too far down your digestive tract for you to be able to absorb the b12 they produce. You could literally eat your own shit, if you really wanted, and get your b12 that way. I know you're gonna like that line but please try not to use it as an excuse to ignore the rest of my post.

>Also, tell me about leucine
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucine#Sources
>Found in soy, hemp, peanuts, wheat, almonds, oats, lentils, etc

>l-carnitine
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine
>because carnitine is synthesized in the human body, it is no longer considered a vitamin.

>creatinin
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatinine
>is a breakdown product of creatine phosphate in muscle, and is usually produced at a fairly constant rate by the body (depending on muscle mass).

>>10477451
>>10477457
>missing the point THIS hard
fucking americans.

>>10473567
Biodiversity is a much weaker argument than animal suffering. EU economic zone fisheries don't drive species to extinction any more. Even shit like eel is recovering.

>>10477381
>when you make baseless claims without providing a source and expect people to take you seriously

>>10477429
That guy isn't me, sweetie. And I'm sorry you got so upset when you thought I was ignoring your post. I'm busy doing other things besides talking to guys who get their nutrition info from paleo blogs and actually believe that creatine isn't produced by the body and leucine is found only in animals. Here you go, though: >>10477458

vegans honestly make me care less and less about farm animals everytime they post shit like this

>>10477162
Hitler lost.

>>10477475
the amount of creatine naturally converted by the body is genuinely not enough to maintain physical health

>>10477398
100g beef gives you about 191.3kcal with 114.4kcal coming from the 28.6g of protien
100g lentils gives you about 353kcal with 116kcal coming from 29g of protien

the rest of the kcal in lentils comes from the carbohydrates present in the lentils

also he was talking about nutrition per point because he was talking about price

>>10477461
OBSESSED

>>10477501
I know, I'm not him. I'm just curious about the efficiency of the food itself. Beef is much better in that regard.

>>10477458
As the other poster explained here >>10477318
but you ignored, human internal production of creatine is very inefficient.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
these two studies detail the deficiency in vegetarians and vegans of creatine and how their memories and brain power are affected by this. I know you don't like to read because brain hurt :[ but try to take your time with this one.

>>10477475
>unironically sweetieposting
Enjoy your almond milk smoothie and brain death, I'm going to go eat a double helping of bacon and eggs.

>>10477476
This. Used to care about animal welfare, but no longer do because vegans are so fucking obnoxious to me every time I ever meet one irl or discuss with one online. They are the most self-satisfied people I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

Oh, and they drink piss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi54ximfmHc

starts 1 minute and 50 seconds in.

>>10477476
Problem is rarely do you get vegans that want to encourage people to eat less meat like OP but rather just shame anyone that has a single ounce of meat/animal product in their diet.

They don't actually care about animals, they just want to boast how superior they are for suffering on the dumbest diet imaginable.

I think im going to continue eating a fully balanced diet of everything the bountiful earth has to offer us thanks.
I'll probably feel a slight tinge of sorrow when I see things that I can anthropomorphize when animals do things comparable to humanity but in the end I will continue to be thankful for the nutrition that they bring me, because they're not us, they're not sapient and the part of us we see in them will never be truly reciprocated.

>>10477501
Are we talking dry lentils, or cooked lentils ready-to eat? Because if it's the later, 100g of dry lentils is a fuckload more volume of food.

>>10477526
REEEEEEEEEE MURDERER

>>10477261
I'll grant B12/Vit-D/Iron.

The outcomes of carnosine/creatine supplementation for vegans isn't clear cut though, the literature is full of studies where it did fuck all.

Finally, DHA is complete bullshit, vegans aren't deficient in it at all. ALA is good enough and you only need tiny amounts.

>>10477261
>Creatine Is not an essential nutrient.

>>10477509
Yeah, I'm also just floating around here at this point.
Basically Lentils and Beef give about the same amount of protein per weight, but beef has no carbs vs 68% carbs in lentils.
Beef also has 15g fat vs 0.4g in lentils.

>inb4 carbs aren't bad you fucktard from vegefags
fat isn't bad for you either you dipshit.

>>10477526
'you are fucking evil and I am better than you'
t. underscum vegans who literally want to be lower on the food chain for the sake of virtue signalling

>>10477560
I never said carbs or fat are bad, I try to favor fat over carbs though.

meat isn't really bad for you, it's just that americans eat way too much of it. it's supposed to be like 1/4 of your plate at most.

>>10477495
>the amount of creatine naturally converted by the body is genuinely not enough to maintain physical health
>citation required

>>10477511
>these two studies detail the deficiency in vegetarians and vegans of creatine and how their memories and brain power are affected by this.
No, they detail the fact that vegetarians and vegans benefit more from supplementation than do meat eaters. Pic related is from your study.

So what do we see in this pic? Before supplementation, vegetarians and meat eaters have similar function. But after both groups are given the same creatine supplement, vegetarians shoot WAY ahead while the meat eaters actually get worse. So all we're seeing here is that if you want to have more of that "brain power" you mentioned, the best avenue is to stop eating meat and start taking creatine supplements. Crazy, huh?

This is likely because the body of a meat eater, getting meat regularly through the diet, has down regulated creatine synthesis. Their body gets a lot via their diet, so it stops trying so hard to produce it. Vegetarians and vegans, on the other hand, don't get any via diet and their bodies are constantly working to produce it. The meat eater's body gets a creatine supplement and says, "Nah, we get that anyway, fuck it" while the vegetarian's body gets the same and says, "Fuck yes, this is the good stuff, use it all!". And so they get a bigger boost from the supplement.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18920766

>>10477536
>An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal physiological function that cannot be synthesized in the body – either at all or in sufficient quantities – and thus must be obtained from a dietary source.

>Creatine synthesis primarily occurs in the liver and kidneys.[3][4] On average, it is produced endogenously at an estimated rate of about 8.3 mmol or 1 gram per day in young adults.[4][5] Creatine is also obtained through the diet at a rate of about 1 gram per day from an omnivorous diet.

>>10477575
>This is likely because the body of a meat eater, getting meat regularly through the diet, has down regulated creatine synthesis. Their body gets a lot via their diet, so it stops trying so hard to produce it. Vegetarians and vegans, on the other hand, don't get any via diet and their bodies are constantly working to produce it. The meat eater's body gets a creatine supplement and says, "Nah, we get that anyway, fuck it" while the vegetarian's body gets the same and says, "Fuck yes, this is the good stuff, use it all!". And so they get a bigger boost from the supplement

This is fucking hilarious. You actually think vegetarianism is magic, don't you? You actually think it changes bodily function and makes your body more intelligent. This is fucking priceless. You're telling me that vegetarians getting creatine supplements use that creatine better because EVUL MEAT BODIES R TOO STOOPID BCUZ MEAT XD

I genuinely wish I was this fucking stupid, life must be fun for you, like downs' syndrome people who are always smiling as they stack coloured blocks, you must be grinning and drooling as you hop through intense mental gymnastics to believe that not eating meat gives you superpowers and makes you a yogi.
Your life is fucking top kek my man

>>10473690
>Dry beans last for years

No, they don’t. They last for about a year before their moisture balance degrades. They can’t be cooked properly after that.

>>10477585
>Scientific studies consistently show that creatine supplementation can increase muscle mass and strength (10).The way creatine functions is that it forms an energy reserve, where it is able to quickly recycle ATP in our cells.

>ATP is the "energy currency" of cells, what the energy from our foods and body fat stores ultimately get turned into. During workouts that consume a lot of energy in a short amount of time, creatine gives us more strength and helps us last longer (11).

>Creatine is actually not an essential nutrient, because the liver can produce it out of other amino acids. However, this conversion process appears to be inefficient.

>About 95% of the creatine in the body is stored in skeletal muscle. However, creatine is also concentrated in the brain. The same way that our muscles require energy to do work, our brain needs energy to do various things… like thinking.

>Vegetarians who take creatine supplements see improvements in cognitive performance, especially in more complex tasks, while there is no difference in non-vegetarians (12, 13). This implies that vegetarians have a deficiency of creatine that is adversely affecting their brain function.

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-brain-nutrients-that-you-cant-get-from-plants-2013-10

>>10473516
3 reasons to eat MORE meat:
- it is tasty
- it is tasty
- it is tasty

>>10477590
>arguing with someone who has an easily pinpointed diet-related reason for being stupid

>>10473516
>can lead to many health problems like cancer, diabetes and hearth disease.
Implying that's a bad thing.

>>10477590
Did you not look at the study I provided at the end of my post? Come on man, apply yourself. This is why I try not to discuss biology with people who have absolutely no knowledge of it. Why do you guys come into these threads and pick fights over your feelings when you don't understand the science?

Yes, I think that the food you eat affects your bodily function because this is scientific fact. Your body produces nutrients based on need. This is why our bodies can no longer synthesize vitamin C: we were once able to do so but were getting such massive amounts via our diet that our bodies quit trying. This is not advanced stuff man, this is basic biology.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3145266/
>Since all species which have lost the capacity to synthesize vitamin C have a vitamin C-rich diet, this is the most common explanation brought forward to explain its frequent occurrence. This explanation is consistent with the fact that wild anthropoid primates (unable to synthesize vitamin C) consume much more vitamin C than the recommended daily allowance for adult humans in the USA, about 1 mg/kg/day.

Your body has the ability to produce certain substances but it's not stupid and it's not going to waste its energy. If you're getting more than enough creatine from your diet, why is your body going to waste energy synthesizing it? It's not, and it won't. This is the case for most any nutrient your body can synthesize. If it doesn't need it, it stops trying to hard to make it. If your body has a constant need for creatine because you're getting none from your diet, it will work harder to synthetize it. It will prioritize it more highly.

Why don't you tell me what your study means, though? Look at the graph in my post and explain it to me. Why would meat eaters perform worse after being given creatine supplements? Why would vegetarians outperform the meat eater baseline by such a large margin after being given creatine supplements?

>we must protect and nurture the animals who would unapologetically eat us in an instant

PROTIP: The reason things like wolves, bears (who aren't grizzly bears) and big cats run away from you instinctively is because your ancestors were kicking the shit out of them for thousands of years. Do you want to get your ass kicked by a buck? Then keep killing and eating them.

>>10477604
>someone says creatine is not an essential nutrient
>you respond implying that they're stupid and wrong
>they call you out for being retarded
>your response is to post a link that literally says "Creatine is actually not an essential nutrient"
wew lad

>>10477590
>when your own study literally proves that vegetarians + creatine supplements are much smarter than meat eaters with or without creatine supplements but you keep acting like vegetarians are the dumb ones
Your own link says that the smartest combo is no meat + creatine.

>>10473516
>Ethics
Literally borderline sociopath. I have barely enough empathy to ration out to my fellow humans, I don't care if some cows are crying somewhere.
>Environment
Won't significantly affect me in my life, don't care.
>Health
Not even close to conclusively proven, and even if you do lean towards believing either side of this completely biased proxy war, the benefits or negatives either way are likely to be completely insignificant assuming your overall diet isn't an extreme fringe case

EAT MORE MEAT
There is one reason why:
>1) Taste: Good quality meat tastes fucking amazing goddamn

Please let me offer you my meat senpai

>>10473516
I'm going to continue eating a lot of meat, but I agree that factory farming should be destroyed.

It not only causes undue suffering, but it leads to a vastly inferior final product. The only upside is cost, and it's just not worth it. Poorfags can fuck off, this industry needs to switch to organic/free range only so that the price of the higher quality product can drop, even if it's by a few pennies.

>>10477620
>If it doesn't need it, it stops trying to hard to make it.
And vegetarians supplementing it = magically their body knows not to stop synthesizing it even though all intake of a nutrient is essentially the same regardless of whether it comes from a steak or powdered creatine.
Yes, magic is what makes vegetarians smarter on this diet, not the fact that they're heavily deficient in creatine. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.

>>10477635
and yet meat eaters who dont supplement creatine are smarter than vegetarians that dont

furthermore your goalposts have moved AGAIN, first it was 'creatine isn't essential and you synthesize enough'
now it's 'actually if vegetarians supplement it they're smarter than meat eaters'

WHICH IS IT YOU DISHONEST CUNT. PICK ONE

>>10477626
>ignores the specific mention that creatine is not essential by mere technicality
>ignores your body still wont produce enough naturally to totally avoid consuming it

>>10477683
This right here. The biggest sin, IMHO, of factory farming is that it has fucked the quality and taste of meats. That extends to veggies as well, especially GMOs. The focus is always on faster growth, higher yeild, and lower price. Qualty and flavor are cast by the wayside.

Ever look at old simple recipes (like from your grandma or whatever) and think wow, that looks really bland? Well, made with today's factory shit...it is. But back when you had ingredients that were worth a damn? BIG difference.

>>10477623
It's interesting how vegans claim to love nature but avoid understanding the concept of nature. Humans are usually seen as excluded from the nature cycle of consuming other living things, despite us being apart of it just like any other animal. Nobody screams at the alligator for eating the baby wildebeest, it's doing what it has done for thousands of years and is completely natural. Humans have foraged and hunted for just as long, and the act being a vegan is actually taboo considering our history. Despite the tutoring of animals, which due to our intelligence and capability to have morals (that animals lack) is seen as unnecessary and cruel, the vegans entire argument is almost entirely based off an emotional appeal. Any health problems that arise from meat eating is due to having TOO much processed meats, and moderation of diet completely negates these factors.

>>10477685
>And vegetarians supplementing it = magically their body knows not to stop synthesizing it even though all intake of a nutrient is essentially the same regardless of whether it comes from a steak or powdered creatine.
If they supplemented it for an extended period then their body would stop producing so much.

>WHICH IS IT YOU DISHONEST CUNT. PICK ONE
It's both, you utter brainlet. Creatine is not essential. You synthesize enough. But if you decide to supplement it, then vegetarians get more of a benefit than do meat eaters.

I'm still waiting for you to explain the mechanics behind your study. Yes, baseline meat eaters are slightly ahead of baseline vegetarians. But why does creatine supplementation cause meat eaters to perform worse? Why does it cause vegetarians to outperform baseline meat eaters by such a large margin? If it's just "deficiency", then shouldn't supplementation only bring vegetarians up to the meat eater baseline? I know you don't have answer to any of these questions but I'll keep holding out hope.

>>10477692
Your link says
>Vegetarians who take creatine supplements see improvements in cognitive performance, especially in more complex tasks, while there is no difference in non-vegetarians. This implies that vegetarians have a deficiency of creatine that is adversely affecting their brain function.
But as you see in my post here >>10477575 (probably the exact study your article is referencing) then the cognitive difference between vegetarians and meat eaters is very slim, looks to be around 5% or less. However, vegetarians with creatine supplementation greatly outperform both regular meat eaters and meat eaters taking the same creatine supplements.

If the boost vegetarians get from supplementation is simply due to them being deficient, then why is the boost so huge? Why does it not simply raise their cognitive function to the meat eater baseline? Why does it cause them to outperform meat eaters by what looks to be close to 20%?

>>10477728
>probably the exact study your article is referencing
its not, why even reply

>>10477728
>If the boost vegetarians get from supplementation is simply due to them being deficient, then why is the boost so huge?

tl;dr - >>10476996

>>10477804
I feel like we've been over this about 15 times already but the only thing you need to supplement in a first world nation is B12 which is easily found naturally on produce in third world nations because everything is covered in B12 producing bacteria. It's actually easier to maintain outside of first world nations.

>>10477797
>finding any excuse possibly to avoid answering simple questions
typical

>>10475344
>>10475726
Yes.

https://www.inquisitr.com/2083582/carnivore-family-has-eaten-a-zero-carb-all-beef-diet-for-the-past-17-years/
https://zerocarbzen.com
http://www.zerocarbhealth.com/
http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/
http://mikhailapeterson.com/2018/04/08/jordan-petersons-diet-zero-carb/
https://optimisingnutrition.com/tag/carnivore-diet/
https://zerocarbzen.com/original-human-diet/

Get debunked, faggot. Meat doesn't cause cancer. Meat is the healthiest possible food to consume. Enough pseudoscientific vegan propaganda.

>>10473516
Why does monsanto support veganism?

>>10479146
because they make money off of pesticides and gmo.