/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>10261646
why would people who don't eat meat want fake meat? it a carrot you weirdo

>>10261667
Because moralfags stop eating meat for political reasons rather than taste reasons.

>>10261670
it's not immoral to eat meat though, they're just retards

>>10261667
The only good reason would be if they stopped eating meat for health reasons.

Ethical vegans eating meat substitutes is the ultimate hypocrisy. If you love animals so much why do you want to eat something that tastes like them? That would be like if I started eating human flesh substitutes. It's disrespectful.

>>10261646
Why would you want fake meat? Pretty much the only kind of "fake meat" I can tolerate are the higher-quality veggie crumbles that you just use to simulate ground meat, and I don't even think of it as a meat substitute, just as a chaperone for the flavors of my picadillo seasonings. Shit like tofurkey and jackfruit pulled "pork" just really piss me off.

>>10261740
Maybe if vegans tried coming up with dishes of their own rather than trying to come up with shitty inferior versions of existing meat based dishes, people would be less disgusted by their cuisine.

>>10261686
It is immoral to eat mass-produced meat.
Educate yourself smoothbrain

>>10261730
They do it to stop torturing animals in Mass animal husbandry.

>>10261757
what difference does it make if it's mass produced or regularly produced? meat is meat. One is just more convenient than the other

>inb4 b-but mass produced meat hurts my feelings!

bottom line is that the moment you allow regular eating of meat, humans will optimize to eat it at a mass scale. Deal with it. If you want to say eating meat in principle is bad, then state a case, but I know you can't and you wouldn't since there's no moral justification not to eat meat if organisms consuming other organisms for sustenance has been a thing since the first amoeba swallowed another cell

>>10261762
That is the rationale for being vegan, not for eating meat substitutes. Try again.

>2018
>not consuming flesh
Checks out anon, may mighty chest Pepe bless your gains

>>10261770
Also, in order to make the case that eating meat is in and of itself immoral, one would have to make the case that if a cow spontaneously combusted in perfectly cooked steaks that you happened upon, that would somehow be immoral to consume.

>>10261770
I'm not saying eating meat in general in immoral.
Just buy some good meat where the animals had a happy life, not something where they spend all their time in a cage.

>>10261868
can you state a case without an appeal to emotion to as why it matters, cage or no cage?

I don't care if it's had a "happy life," whatever that means. How is that even measurable. Tons of people don't have "happy lives" either, yet I'm supposed to care about random less animals far far away?

>>10261730
Anybody with even the slightest iota of intellectual curiosity would be interested in sampling a successful human meat substitute. But you wouldn't understand that, would you? Intelligence, I mean.

>>10261908
Says the guy that eats his own cum.

>>10261908
I honestly wouldn't. I have no interest in consuming human flesh so the substitute would be pointless to me for comparison sake. It would be like never having tasted an orange before but trying an orange flavoured candy because you think it could be the same, but it wouldn't it would just be a vague approximation.

Might as well just eat pork at that point.

>>10261915
Yes. What's your point?

>>10261925
Or eating dyed horseradish because you think it might taste the same as wasabi?

>>10261740
As if plain chicken isn't just a chaperone for different flavors. Jackfruit works just fine as pulled project or whatever

>>10261941
chicken when cooked properly has a delicious flavour all its own that spices simply compliment

>>10261667
Ancient Chinese Buddhists did not eat meat for religious reasons
So those who converted to Buddhism but still miss the taste of meat used marinated soy products as substitutes

>pic related

>>10261667
the most real no meat eater dont eat those vegan/vegetarian nuggets,sausages & co often.
its made for meat eaters who are more willing to try something what looks familiar.
many meat eaters try those because they think its healthy but its not rly a healthier alternative.
its still junk food, ist fried and loadet with fat to taste better.

>b-but why call it nuggets,sausage or meatball?
because it sounds familiar and better than long/round shaped processed plant protein . also sausage is a shape.nugget is a shape.
and those shapes are good to eat.
do you only want to allow star shaped meat imitation?
how do you do a hot dog with star shaped "meat"?

sincerely, a meat eater.

>>10261646
I'm a recently converted vegan. But my insight is that, yeah, it's familiar. As you start to convert your repertoire of recipes to something more vegan, you can use meat substitutes in the foods you are already familiar with.

Over the long run, people seem to switch to making seiten, or using tofu in place of meat. And that's more for texture and protein content, as it is nothing at all like meat in flavor

>>10261646
no.
tofu, tempeh and beans just dont taste like meat at all.
the closest thing you can get to a meat taste is butter fried mushrooms.

>>10262049
i have no idea what that is
looks like puff paste but there is no way you would marinate that in soy sauce

>>10261646
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF9bf9uKQQk

/thread?

>>10262452
No one in this thread has made an Impossible burger. They're only available in restaurants and no pro chef would waste their time on /ck/.

>>10261646
You guys this thread has nothing to do with the ethics of vegetarianism so I don't know why you're all bothering with the shitposting. I can choose to eat what I want and I don't have to justify it to anyone.

almost everything itt comes down to
>I don't like vegetarians
>I don't like fake meat
>I don't think vegetarians who like fake meat are real vegetarians
I don't give a fuck what you all think, idiots. I just want to know if anyone has successfully cooked up some homemade fakearoo meat, because store-bought stuff is expensive and online recipes tend to be kind of shitty.

>>10261770
>being being this retarded

>>10262624
4chan is full of the dumbest fucktards that have access to the internet. They can’t stick to a topic any more than a dog can drive a car. But anyway, the closest I’ve done is baked tofu. You marinate thin strips and then bake it while periodically basting in bbq sauce. When it’s done to the constancy you want, it’s great in a sandwich with lettuce and tomato and maybe some dressing or vegan mayo. I might do that again today now that I’m thinking about it.

>>10262624
You started a shit thread and you're complaining that people moved it towards a discussion that is actually interesting.

Let me make it simple for you: no, no one has ever successfully made a relatively convincing fake meat dish at home because it's not remotely possible.

Jackfruit if seasoned correctly and not overcooked can be made into a reasonably convincing meat substitute.

>>10261770
>humans will optimize to eat it at a mass scale. Deal with it.
So you're okay with cultured/lab-grown meat?

watermelon steak is pretty lmao

>>10261941
>pulled project
wut

>>10262657
It's completely irrelevant discussion. If you want to make posts where you bitch about the existence of vegetarians or defend against people who bitch about the existence of vegetarians make your own damn thread instead of derailing one just because you deem it too boring.

>>10261905
It matters for the same reason that most people with any amount of moral scruples try to do what they can to help starving people, people in war-torn countries, victims of domestic or familial abuse, etc.

The animals that we eat regularly have been shown in experiments to feel pain in the same way that humans do. Not only that, they have the associated psychological trauma that comes with pain (whereas bugs don't experience mental anguish over pain, it feels more like a pressure or mild aversion).

In the grand scheme, it probably doesn't matter. But if you have a bit of compassion in your heart, it comes down to making choices to benefit the amount of happiness in the world, if it's not hugely inconvenient.

>>10261905
God damn people like you always make me laugh. Thinking you're some master debater
>hurr durr state your case
>appeal to emotion

Inevitably you end up coming across sounding like a 16 year old and you couldn't be more wrong about everything. Lol go away retard.

>>10262696
>bugs don't experience mental anguish over pain
Not being argumentative, just genuinely curious: do you have a source for that? I don't understand how anyone could determine that with any certainty.

>>10262785
they literally don't have the mental capacity for that

kinda like you lack the mental capacity to understand even basic biology apparently

>>10262785
Here you go dummy. Try literally using google

https://www.thoughtco.com/do-insects-feel-pain-1968409

>>10262785
I don't have an exact source, but I've seen reports of observational studies done where a bug will have one of its legs eaten off and barely even notice that it happened.

I imagine there isn't much evolutionary weight to experiencing anguish over pain in a species that has a very simple social structure/limited communicative ability.

>>10262822
That sources an article from 1984 and a Canadian senate hearing. Try again.

I know how to use Google, but I'm not an entomologist so it's a lot easier to ask someone knowledgeable about the subject to find the most recent and credible studies for me.

>>10262858
This one has more recent studies cited:
https://askentomologists.com/2016/08/29/do-insects-feel-pain/

It sounds kinda like the feeling of human-like pain may depend on the species of insect.

>>10262858
>The source is bad!
Anon its a bug. They have no CNS and barely have a capacity to eat and reproduce. Unless some major evolutionary leaps have been made since 2010 that senate hearing is pretty valid. Also if you would google your question instead of picking at sources from spoonfeeding anons theres a trove of etymology blogs and pop science articles explaining that insects dont feel pain due to insects not feeling much of anything.

>>10262643
ahem

>>10262049
>soy
explains a lot

>>10262662
as long as nobody is forced to eat it

>>10262740
still not an argument buddy

>>10262696
>help starving people, people in war-torn countries, victims of domestic or familial abuse, etc.
then help those people, why are you bitching about what people eat...?

also stop with the emotional rhetoric and present something concrete, not meaningless and arbitrary fluff

>The animals that we eat regularly have been shown in experiments to feel pain in the same way that humans do.
bull fucking shit. Lesser animals are just not humans, I don't care what cherry picked science you might pull out your ass, but at a fundamental level animals just aren't people. I don't care if they feel pain, hell I don't even care if other human beings feel pain if they're a murderer or rapist on death row or if they're my enemy and we're at war. Livestock just aren't my pets, they are faceless creatures to be eaten just as enemy soldiers are to be shot at without mercy to defend my homeland. I'm sorry but the ol 'muh pain' argument has never been convincing because pain and suffering is a natural part of life, reducing it is good for those we know and care about personally like pets or a fellow countryman/patriot, but traitors and the enemy are right to suffer

>In the grand scheme, it probably doesn't matter. But if you have a bit of compassion in your heart, it comes down to making choices to benefit the amount of happiness in the world, if it's not hugely inconvenient
'muh total happiness in the world' are you kidding me? You reduce MY happiness by going against meat, so now you have a dilemma between unmeasurable and arbitrary metrics as 'happiness of the world'. Not to mention that CHANGING ONE'S ENTIRE FUCKING DIET is massively inconvenient, just stop. Not everybody is genetically built for an exclusively vegetarian diet either, my forefathers came here as meat mongering ranchers and that's how I intend to live.

if anything you just got me to double down on my position from how bad the arguments are. No first principles presented, just non-arguments

>>10263043
I almost feel bad telling you this because you must have been dropped on your head as a baby, but your “points” are all completely worthless. The person you responded to has the right idea.
Jesus 4chan is just full of human garbage.

>>10263043
> stop with the emotional rhetoric
>uses emotional rethoric

Yes, but only because I work in a biotech lab. Can’t give any specifics but it looks like it will go to market starting summer 2019

>>10264068
so, synth meat? can u guys add kreatine to it to simulate the fear the game gets when it starts fleeing?

>>10263100
not an argument

>>10263952
not an argument either

start any time now

>>10266192
Your argument boils down to "I don't care". That isn't a position about veganism in general; it's a position about your personal decision to eat meat.

No one gives a fuck about your personal decision, so no one is going to argue with you about it. If you want to make an argument about veganism in general, I'm sure people will be happy to debate.

>>10266221
if "I don't care" is a valid position against veganism, then I see little point to veganism if people will still do what they want to do anyway -- eat, slaughter, and mass-produce meat at an industrial scale. What is it that vegans intend to accomplish at that point then, other than taking a pseudo moral high ground they can't even explain straight without emotional appeals?

You may say no one gives a fuck about my personal decision, but the sentiment is generally carried the same from all meat eaters. The only argument to be made regarding veganism is exactly as I have presented: people do not care about veganism, and so people will proceed to meat eat. We're not on the defense here trying to justify a pointless dietary practice without any non-vague principles

>>10261762
So they would be fine with eating animals that died of old age or an accident?

>>10261646
extra firm tofu cooked with vegeta for chicken soup
its really only fit for feeding dogs and whores

>>10262605
The Beyond Burger is similar. It doesn’t taste like beef in particular, but it does taste like meat. I buy them when I want to treat my vegan friend nice.

>>10266192
typing "not an argument" doesnt make you any less retarded

fyi that wasnt supposed to be an argument you hyppocritical moron

>>10267271
you can continue posting ad-hominems or you can start posting something of substance any time now

>>10267286
I could if I cared to but you can't stop being a brainlet so I wont bother

>>10267543
ironic, given that you are the one too brainlet to construct an argument here. Seriously, hit me with your best shot. Embarrass me. But you and I know you won't, not because you care or not, but because you can't. Unless of course, you actually try lmao

>>10261770
The environment talk impact is insane. The energy, water, land and pollution required to feed and provide land for animal protein is way beyond unreasonable compared to plant based sources of calories and protein with little impact on quality. Its down right selfish and self destructive to eat meat everyday. 2-3 times a week is all anyone would ever need.

>>10261646
um, no, why would I even attempt that?

>>10270109
>energy, water, land and pollution required to feed and provide land for animal protein is way beyond unreasonable
By whose standard is "reasonable" -- yours? Cherrypicked studies? By what axiom, by what a priori premise, leads you to conclude that it is "unreasonable," absent of any appeal to authority?

For all I know, if my premise is that meat is good because it provides people happiness unlike any other (and yes, i value people over lesser animals) then it is perfectly reasonable to have a meat industry. It can be improved to be less wasteful and more efficient, but the meat industry itself is still justified. What is your premise if you might disagree?

>little impact on quality
There is a massive impact on quality, when there is simply a fundamental biochemical difference between actual meat and meat substitutes. You can say something "tastes like" or "fulfills the same proteins" as meat, but at the end of the day it is still not meat. Not to mention that when entire nations' daily dietary habits, culture, and cuisines are based on meat you claim there is "little impact on quality" when such cuisines can never be copied faithfully. And that is what meat substitutes are: shallow, unoriginal copies.

>Its down right selfish
You have yet to explain how.

>>10270109
>self destructive [individually speaking]
Again, you have yet to explain how. Nutritionally speaking, meat is an excellent source of protein and this cannot be disputed. There is a reason why there are supplemental pills for people who don't eat meat, but not the other way around.

>self destructive [environmentally speaking]
This argument has never made sense to me. If meat is so tasty and delicious, then people will do what they can to preserve such a system to continue tasting delicious meat in the future. It is the opposite of self-destructive, because the meat industry has only grown, and will only continue to grow. Because you know, people eat meat.

>self destructive [for the Earth]
Same argument; if eating meat is good, why would people want to self-destroy in order to not eat meat in the future? Granted, again I don't deny that there are meat corporations that contribute to pollution and such but that's a separate issue; if you wanted to say corporate practices should change to be more efficient and less wasteful, say that, not "meat itself should not be eaten"

>2-3 times a week is all anyone would ever need.
According to who, you?

>"again according to these cherrypicked studies, anon"
There may be optimal diets, sure, but that does not mean people shouldn't have meat more than 2-3 times a week if they just wanted to.

If anything the only valid argument you present is that corporate meat practices should change and I agree. But I will still eat meat, and still buy meat. If you wanted to revamp corporate meat practices then start your own corporation and outcompete them, but you and I know that isn't what will happen since the argument for not eating meat is to restrict and replace, not create and offer more delicious cost-efficient alternatives.

To summarize so far, here is what I understand to be the core and central argument against eating meat as a straightforward syllogism:

>causing suffering and pain is bad
>eating meat means having to cause suffering and pain to animals
>therefore, meat should not be eaten as it causes suffering and pain, which is bad

The argument appears legitimate at a glance, but not all suffering and pain is bad. As I said earlier, suffering and pain is fine in instances where one does not know personally or cares for the thing that is suffering. (One takes care of their family first, not faceless strangers one does not even know. Similarly one generally cares for their pets, not grow to eat them later. In fact, I am sure certain vegans would rejoice if a meat industry CEO gets a heart attack, so clearly they are not concerned with his suffering or his family, or his customers).

So between faceless delicious animals harvested to be eaten, and the pleasure that meat grants to me and my family, the first premise doesn't follow and the argument doesn't hold up. At least, in the context of eating meat in itself.

>>10271002
>>10271014
>>10271257
This is neither a courtroom or a class in basic logic. Your abstractions and obfuscation are obscene. Any child with eyes can see footage of slaughter and inherently know its immoral qualities. Any simpleton can look at rapid deforestation and it’s obvious and immediate negative global impact.

In sum, get fukd and kys.

Trader Joe's soy chorizo is great. There's also a vegan place near me that makes a 'reuben' that tastes almost as good as one with meat; i don't know how the fuck they do it.

>>10261740
>Why would you want fake meat?
Price. If you can serve me a lab-grown porterhouse that's 95% as good as the real deal for 1/2 the price, I'm buying the faux-meat.

>>10262049
Pleb monks
>not hiding the meat in pastry so good cant see it like the German monks did.

>>10261853
Nice gains, pepe

>>10262631
>being being