/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>10000244
Eat less

First we eliminate the flyovers swiftly but humanely

Then we invite hard working Asians, Middle Easterners, and Latinos to re-populate those areas

>>10000244
We don't, there's too much social inertia and profitability surrounding obesity.
The only thing that might end it would be a massive shift in the socio-economic norm, like a Great Depression/Dust Bowl level event that guts industrial food production.

>>10000283
Dust bowl shit is the whole reason fatties exist. Generations of Americans were so scared of hunger that we oversubsidized corn to the point where we have to export most of it or turn it into biofuel otherwise the market will collapse

Catalogue what little culture the south has ever had before eliminating it with weapons that will not contaminate the north; and will hopefully dissipate over the next decade so we can exploit resources.

Then we offer further incentives for exercise and activity as diet can vary due to individual needs. Medical issues and drug effects can be considered excusable, or rather they are given additional benefits equal to those who are equal.

>>10000244
>meet person with doctorate
>obese
non-meme answer: improve education

>>10000289
And another similar sized event is what it will take to change anything.
Feel good blogs and school fitness challenges won't end obesity, only a massive external event will break up the economic and social systems that encourage obesity.

>>10000244

Honest answer? End easy access to welfare. Fast food joints dominate the ghettos in every city.

>>10000292
Or force them to follow it. Doctors need expensive lawyers to protect them from a fuckton of various lawsuits, but at the same time grow numb towards patients and expensive lawyers mean "justice" is money.

A lot of them are fuckers that have forgotten what they learned, or are arrogant enough to not put in an effort and assume they're correct.

>>10000244
We end America.

Obesity is more profitable health.
Fatties ain't goin anywhere till that changes.

>>10000309
I don't agree. People gravitate towards rote, animal-like behavior in response to crises. A food shock of any kind is just going to trigger more pathological herd-like actions which will lead to the next generation's food dysfunction.

Food security and healthy eating are pretty well correlated in this day and age. Poor fat fucks who have to wait for payday to go grocery shopping will just stuff their faces with any old garbage and literally get angry at the idea that someone might eat small courses, for instance. Meanwhile thin, rich, healthy people have room to argue over whether blueberries or papayas have more "phytonutrients"

We need another 80's fitness movement.

More like how do we end diversity

>>10000353

You clearly don't remember the 80's.

>>10000705
>blacks are fat so it's okay for whites to be fat

>>10000244
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Confine anyone (that includes orange cheetohs) with a BMI over 26 to a fat concentration camp until they reduce to 25 or under. If, after 6 months they haven't made it, then eliminate them. Furthermore, to pay for the concentration camps eliminate corporate welfare subsidies for HFCS and factory farmed dairy and meat, and tax the fuck out of fast food. Obesity problem solved. Next problem you want solved?

>>10000244
>Obesity drops past 60 years or more because most don't make it past 40-59 years old

>>10000718
I don't think he remembers much. The '90s and '00s were the nadir of personal fitness, the '10s on the other hand saw a surge in fitness interest in the popular consciousness

>>10000344
Nope, there isn't any major difference in food spending no matter the spending class.
Basically, any group that gets more money (either by income or SNAP) will buy Steaks and prepared frozen foods after initial requirements are met.

>>10000718
>who is jane fonda.
Also watch American Psycho who lampoons 80's fitness fads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB28mTCrPyg

>>10000771
I didn't say "food spending", I said "food consumption"
>will buy Steaks and prepared frozen foods
That isn't true at all, class-based consumption habits and tastes are a universal thing, although the details vary per culture

>>10000790
Wait, are you non american?

>>10000790
>I didn't say "food spending"
then why are you talking about checks and income?

>>10000797
I can read without moving my lips, I have a passport, and my last name isn't Smith, Jones, or Göring. So, yes, as far as you're concerned, I am an illegal voter migrant foreigner who hates America and has literally never set foot here.

>>10000244
>that drop after 60

>>10000271
Can't wait for al-flyover tbqh

>>10000803
Waiting for payday to shop implies living paycheck to paycheck. Paycheck to paycheck implies low food security. Low income people are the most likely to be in low food security environments in country that is otherwise rich and not at war or suffering from a drought or natural disaster scenario. Obviously, there are examples where this might not be true, but in general, it is true.

>>10000744
does it hurt being this retarded?

>>10000829
>Waiting for payday to shop implies living paycheck to paycheck. Paycheck to paycheck implies low food security. Low income people are the most likely to be in low food security environments
Oh so food spending and not consumption. gotcha.

But show me a statistic on the population that lives in a food scarce neighborhood.

>>10000353
please don't be fatphobic

>>10000831
Doesn’t seem to bother your mother that much.

>>10000244
unironically fat shaming
do you think we stay thin because it's healthy? fucking bullshit it's because the rest of the world will troll the shit out of our miserable life until we suicide
get the bullies back on the job, that's the only way

>>10000838
>Oh so food spending and not consumption. gotcha.
You're not following. The thread is about obesity. Anon suggested that a food shock to society at large would be a solution to obesity. I disagreed on the grounds that food security is tied to bad eating habits. A food shock would be an example of reducing food security. Another example would be when cash flow affects your attitudes about future food availability. Consumption here would be driven by fear, fear is driven by financial insecurity, financial insecurity is based on the person's anticipated future spending power.

This isn't something I just pulled out of my ass. Bourdieu documented it in mid 20th century France, and the US government looks at it when doing economic analyses and planning the social safety net.

>>10000244
Obesity is a symptom of a greater psychological malaise that's become endemic in America, a hopelessness that's seeped into nearly every level of society. The vast majority of Americans know that an apple is healthier than a snack cake, they know soda is bad for them, they know they need to exercise, but what's the point? The predominant cultural narrative is that everything is terrible and that you're not good enough. Nothing is going to get better, so why should you?

>>10000744
Woah so edgy

>>10000852
i imagine not since she has been dead for 15 years.

>More /pol/ threads

>>10000353
>put /fit/ in charge of changing the shape of americans
>move from widespread obesity to widespread faggotry
how to fix that then?

>>10000271
Can you eliminate me please? I’m not a flyover. I’m a costalfag.

>>10000244
limit ebt to fresh produce and eggs/milk/bread with some other exceptions like canned tuna

>>10000814
Fatties start dropping like flies at that age, especially the turbofatties.

By being the greatest

>>10000244
Fat shaming. Seriously. It's disgusting and they should know it

>>10000844
And being a fat enabler is better? It's one thing to be a little overweight, but being obese to the point where you're developing health problems is not OK, especially since it's a huge expense when you consider the cost of healthcare. Normal weighted people in the US end up paying higher premiums for services they don't use as often because you insurance companies cannot pool obese people in "high-risk" groups anymore. Not to mention because obese people are more likely to go to the hospital or have to get checkups for their health problems means there is a loss of productivity.

Don't get me wrong, people born with congenital problems or those who have health issues not brought on by their poor decisions, I feel bad for, but I don't have much sympathy for obese people. I'm not being fatphobic, I'm just being realistic, and this is coming from someone who used to be close to being morbidly obese.

Anyways, you have groups of people who are normalizing obesity, lying about how this obesity epidemic isn't a health crisis, lying to people telling them that weight loss is unhealthy or impossible, and even guilting people into finding them attractive, going against evolutionary pressures which drives us as a species to create healthy offspring.

Obesity is disgusting and shouldn't be normalized at all.

Take all the advertisements and programs encouraging more exercise and make them about just fucking eating less. Its amazing how much more we encourage "exercising 30 minutes or more a day" compared to how little we encourage calorie counting given the efficiency of dieting versus exercise.

>>10001196
Oy vey, its almost like food industry lobbiests (especially sugar) WANT people to be fat and keep purchasing tons of their products.

But keep getting that gym membership, itll fix all your problems

>>10000817
Can you imagine the kinds of crazy shit they'd build over the barren depopulated meth fields? I bet we'd fly quite a bit lower over them just to gawk at the crazy architecture.

Plus maybe we could build coast to coast high speed rail in the immediate aftermath.

>>10000975

Solution

>>10001261
Kek

>>10000271
>>10000817
>>10001214
imagine being this much of a cuck

>>10001248
this is insane and the fact that they put bright colored stickers on to promote it is even worse

I knew all those take home and bake pizzas were EBT but at lest they don't have stickers encouraging it

>>10000244
That's interesting, it suggests that obese black kids actually lose the weight as they become teenagers, but then gain it back when they get older, while obese white kids keep getting fatter continuously, but at a slower rate.

The decline in obesity for the over-60s in both groups is just due to premature deaths of the obese, of course, not indicative of any weight loss.

>>10001261
>the whole shelf has to get cleared
I bet that meat was all stacked on the same pallet when it arrived at the store.

>>10001261
>the whole shelf has to get cleared
maybe removing all the moslems would be a better option

>>10000975
meat is cheaper than canned tuna

>>10001339
Are there a lot of muslims up there in CT? Last I was up there it was nothing but whitest of the whites and blackest of the blacks

>>10000244

Everybody eat laundry pods!

>>10000975
They will never do this because companies like Coca Cola make a significant amount of money from EBT spending on their products. Through the corn/agrobiz lobbies they lobby for EBT use on sweetened products.

>>10001358
Half of those are dishwasher pods, you degenerate

>>10000271
this is what calicucks actually believe

>>10001352
there shoud be limits on what cut of meat they choose

>>10001355
>Are there a lot of moslems up there in CT?
no, but i've seen them walking around in their costumes several times and dont much care for it

>>10001361
Trump is trying to force people to work for handouts so maybe he can do something with this too - don't think it will happen but look what sacreamento is doing to tax sugar dranks

>>10000271
>hard working Asians, Middle Easterners, and Latinos to re-populate those areas

pleas tell me that people don't believe this meme

>>10001395
>maybe he can do something with this too
He will never do anything that hurts big American companies.
>look what sacreamento is doing to tax sugar dranks
Yeah, ever notice how it is always big liberal cities that try to ban or restrict corn-sweetened products like soda? Although unlike e.g. New York, Sac's economy does actually depend on agriculture to some extent. It's not corn in that area though, it's mostly rice along with nuts and fruit (which is in direct competition with artificial sweeteners, if you think about it).

The average person doesnt realize working out for hours barely burns off a single fast food meal, and then become demoticated and give up when their attempts at "fitness" dont work.

Also, fucking meme diets that dont teach people how they work

>>10001389
Wrong coast, cleetus
>>10001399
>gieb cole mine jobs plx huehuehue
I'll take 100 more brown people over another lazy white rustic any day of the week, we've got enough dead weight dragging us down

>>10001410
Demotivated

>>10001410
Meme diets are just designed to sell books and special food to people. We could call it the "Agro-nutritional complex" or something, some companies create obesity to sell more corn, and then others (sometimes with the same owners) take advantage of the unhealthy population to sell scam diets. It's no different from creating wars so that industry can sell more weapons.

They're all symptoms of the same sickness in society. There is no incentive anywhere in the market for actually improving the people of our country, but there are a million incentives for lying to them and robbing them blind.

>>10001413
There are plenty of lazy brown people as well, friend

>>10000244
Elect Michelle Obama as president. She has an intense disgust if fat people and children.

>>10001405
>He will never do anything that hurts big American companies.
I never said he was going to cure everything but will hope for every and anything I can get

>Sac's economy does actually depend on agriculture to some extent

the whole point of their tax was to virtue signal and claim superiority in the same way my state banned guns

>>10001448
i too hate black people and their nigglets.

Purge niggers, spics, and poor people.

>>10001449
>hope for every and anything I can get
Well you will never get tougher regulation of big business from him. I'm not speculating, look at the record. It's a fact.
>whole point of their tax was to virtue signal
As one of the hubs of fruit orchards in the country, they actually have an economic interest in giving the HFCS lobby some competition.

>>10000244
>Get rid of or severely restrict government handouts
>No free healthcare
>All fatties either die because they can't afford to see a doctor because they spend all their money on food or starve
Ez. Big daddy government is the only thing keeping these people alive.

>>10001446
There are some, just like how there are some hard working rural whites who legitimately want to educate and improve themselves instead of just sitting around doing fentanyl and waiting for some external event to magically transform their lives

But let's be honest here, brown immigrants are the way forward as a nation, white poors have been told they're entitled to a comfortable lifestyle in exchange for doing nothing for way too long, and when times are tough they blame others

I don't see their culture changing any time soon

>>10000316
You can't purchase warm food with EBT or SNAPS. How does welfare enable people to buy fast food?

>>10001410
Keto works though. It's complete shit for your health but it works.

>>10001480
Most brown immigrants come here for handouts too. If you reduce the handouts, you filter out the lazy ones real fast.

>>10001481
Welfare queens love loading up on shitty frozen food and snacks. I'm sure some grocery store anons can tell us about all the shit they see them buy.

>>10001493
Most people when they say "handouts" they mean "handouts for doing nothing"

Brown immigrants come here to work the fields, start a business, whatever. Anything but sitting around grousing about how we need the gold standard and China is going to repossess our double wide because they own a few billion worth of T-bills and how we need to cut off all foreign trade and turn back industrialization by about 100 or so years

Obesity is a disease. It's more profitable to create crash diets, shape wear, and miracle workout equipment than it is for people to be fit and healthy. Remove the incentive to keep people fat.

It's a mixture of personal responsibility for health but at the same time large businesses make more money from the obese as is.

>>10001314
>it suggests that obese black kids actually lose the weight as they become teenagers, but then gain it back when they get older
>Fat cause mama feedin em dat SOUL FOOD
>Grow to teen, start hanging with gangbangers cause no dad
>Lose weight running from cops
>Lose weight in jail/prison
>Repeat 20 years
>Settle down in section 8 and gorge on EBT fried chicken

>>10000255
Underrated dubs.

>>10001502
Latinos have a higher obesity rate and a higher welfare usage rate. 54% of immigrant led households use a major welfare program

>>10000244
Allow the government to actually regulate the shit that goes into our food.

I don't know if you can, everyone nowadays thinks they are so intelligent they can avoid hunger by outsmarting their bodies with trick diets. No one wants to accept a bit of suffering because hard work is seen as a bad thing.

Unsurprisingly the uneducated are way more likely to have this mindset.

>>10000244
Don't have a shitty medical system and limit fast-food proliferation

dae le carbs xD

>>10001502
Latinos well over represented for SNAP usage. White people and Asians under represented. Dem browns aint working hard enough

>>10001565
>thinking the gubbmint will save us
>trusting big daddy with determining what goes into our food
They subsidize most of the unhealthy shit and politicians are quick to betray their base once they receive kickbacks.

>>10000244
its sounds kind of stupid but could we actually have a fat tax? We determine someones ideal/normal weight (with a few kgs leeway ) i.e. my ideal is where I'm at, 64kgs but I'd be ok up to about 68 I guess.

Every kg above 68kg I gain I have to pay a tax per kg (you could claim it was to compensate the health system or something). Maybe $100/kg once a year or something, I dunno what would be appropriate.

I know it would never happen but would it work?

>>10001812
>fucking eurofags
no you dumb faggot it would never work. unless you live in a police state. (bongland)

>>10001166
jesus her forearms are like my thighs

>>10001410
lol good pic

>>10001816
why wouldn't it work?

>>10000817
Unironically this. If the vast swaths of worthless fatfucks in flyover land, particularly in the south, were eliminated, the obesity rate in the US would plummet. On the bright side, we could open the area for immigration homesteading and replace these inbreds with decent hard workers.

>>10001261
>HARAM
>HAM
If alcoholism doesn't kill me lung collapse will.

>>10001261
If that were true I would do it every single time I went to the store.

>>10000932
>widespread faggotry

Good, humans need to stop reproducing

>>10001489
How is it shit for your health? I've only heard good things about it thus far.

>>10001812
First you'd need a way to make weight measuring compulsory when medical checkups aren't and healthcare isn't given to everyone

I let my self go for three months.. really hit a serious low point and am still crawling out of it, and did some serious damage. I think I put on 30 lbs. my body does not look the same at all

I want to kms. Thinking about all the work Im going to have to do and all the dieting just to get to a presentable place... fucking hell.

>15% of american babies are already obese
lmao

>>10001195

According to the left,

Yes, it is better, facist

>>10002646
>15% of american babies are already obese
Stretching fetish?

>>10002672
what

>>10002674
Pushing them out fella.

Just put a 50% tax on all fast food. Make a big mac more expensive than a well-prepared dinner. Also put a fat tax on fat people's salaries to pay until they lose weight.

>>10000244
By having a real healthcare system and economic policy which doesn't rip money out of everyman's hands and encourages him to eat fucking garbage.

Basically, kill the billionaires and take their money.

>>10000244
Australians know the answer. Ask them.

>>10000244
>obese 2-5 year olds
How? How is that defined? How is that possible?

>>10002683
I don't think they're instantly obese in the womb, more like the stupid parents put coca cola in their bottle instead of milk.

>>10000353
as long as it involves high cut leotards, you have my full support, and full erection

>>10001481
It doesn't, he's just retarded and trying to validate his pre-existing beliefs about poor people.

Nice race baiting OP. Clearly we must gas the kikes and enslave the niggers right? That's what I genuinely think. Satisfied?

By making informed choices. Despite the advertising, corporations don't give a fuck about your wellbeing or your lives. Avoid processed foods like the plague. Greatly reduce eating out or ordering takeaway. Make your own food.

Avoid diet foods. Keep in mind that "fat-free" usually means "laden with sugar", and "sugar-free" means "laden with artificial sweeteners" that mimic sugar. The key is to eat normal, unprocessed foods in moderation.

Exercise and be more active. Just small changes here and there help a lot. Recognize how much energy you actually need to support your lifestyle and don't go over it.

That's really all there is to it, but for many food is an addiction. Many would rather die defending their addiction than kick the habit, and this is why the obesity epidemic will only become worse.

>>10000244
would you rather wageslave for 40 years and eat healthy but unsatisfying food or wageslave for 20 years while eating all you fucking want. life is garbage unless you're born into money so what's with the obsession of prolonging your misery by extending your lifespan?

>>10000898
Hit the nail on the head.

>>10000244
Let Kim nuke commiefornia.

>>10000316
We should reduce the welfare state but obesity is mainly just caused by apathy and laziness

>>10002974
BMI, just like how it is defined for every group on that chart.

>>10003658
That would destroy most red states since they rely on CA federal income tax dollars to operate their state governments.

>>10000255
fpbp

>>10005670
that's fine

>>10002981
>How to give your child osteoporosis

Far too many points to mention. There’s not just one reason why people are fat fucks in this country. There’s hundreds. The biggest one being processed foods being cheap.

>>10000244
Quadruple tax on fastfood, triple on snacks prices and soda, double on "hungry man" boxes.

Makes it unbearably expensive to eat yourself fat.
No lesser measures will have any effect.

>>10000271
>current year + 2
>not knowing beaners and niggers have higher obesity rates than hard working white lower class

>>10000244
Honestly? Raise the minimum wage, lower the middle class wages (raise taxes), introduce significant sugar and fat taxes, and lower or remove the VAT for the very basic food commodities and certain vegetables needed for a balanced and healthy meal.

Raising minimum wage will make fast food more expensive, as will the sugar and fat tax. The sugar and fat tax will also make the processed crap more expensive. The lowered income of the middle class should make their food spending a more pressing issue.

While you do all this you make the things you need for cooking a healthy meal cheaper. If you also start up some national propaganda programs to tell people how cheap and easy it is to cook a decent meal it'll help.

Fewer working hours will help a lot too, giving people more time and energy to mess about in the kitchen.

>>10002981
but babies start fat to keep them warm, as they have no internal regulation of body temp besides that layer of insulation

>>10005670
>Cali tax dollars disappear
>no more gibs me dat for flyovers
>flyovers die
>US collapses back down to east coast
>and nothing of value was lost

>>10000244
>poor people who survived starving by having slow metabolisms all move to the same place
>fuck each other and survive in prosperity
>surprised why we're all obese fucks

selectively breed for non-obese folk? eat less processed sugar?

>>10000244
white genocide, obv

>>10000244
neural implants

>>10005670
False. Commiefornia actually recieves more federal dollars because they spend so much on their failing social programs. The red States don't want your handouts anyways so they'd be all for cutting benefits.
>Vote to give billions to solve the homeless problem
>Somehow end up with more homeless

>>10000244
by making them do the slave labor

>>10000271
How does it feel to be paying $900 a month for a 200sq/ft studio apartment? Is that why you feel superior?

>>10001499
I lived in the hood for a while when I finished college and didn't have much cash, so I might be able to shed some light on it.
Sure, some fat fucks go to the grocery store and use EBT to load up on trash. But the big issue is if you're in the hood there are no real grocery stores near by, and if you're poor enough to live in the hood the odds that you own a car are low. A lot of people on EBT in those areas have to rely on gas stations and Family Dollars within walking distance for their groceries, both places that don't carry anything but frozen and processed garbage. I had a car so I could drive to the store, thank god.

>>10008681

As a student barely surviving on 3 part time jobs and donating blood I drive by bike to get the grocery done in 30 minutes. You cannot tell me shopping is only possible with a car or by foot.
Lazy fucks. There is always a way but you have to get out of your comfort zone

>>10008623
>The red States don't want your handouts anyways
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW.

>>10008662
>$900 a month
Ha ha ha oh wow

Where in Mississippi is this?

>>10008483
>i dont know caloric balance the post
>>10009572
thats one reason that theyre all lards

>>10000271
Yet another retarded city lefty on welfare completely ignorant to facts wants to be an authoritarian, how surprising.
Shitskins are the fattest US demographics, my man.
Mexico is the fattest country in the world. Most of those people are only skinny because of subsistence living.
Inb4 flyover, I'm from the DC metro.

>>10000291
>talking shit about the south on a cooking board
Nigger, we laugh about how none of you yank retards can cook down here.

>>10000291
That's kind of racist, man. What do you have against black people and Mexicans?

>>10010063

>>10009572
Bikes are a great way to get from the PJs to the grocery store, right up until it gets stolen.

>>10010078
>Southern Fried Cucks

>>10008681
As an in debt college student in one of the blackest cities in the US that lived in a ghetto with no car, this nigga is so full of shit. So full of shit.
Work at a ghetto grocer and you'll turn racist so quick.
Watching drug dealers buy lobster with EBT before hoping in a Mercedes. Ones black momma with nine onese kids buying nothing but junk food on stamps. Kids trying to steal shit the whole time.

>>10010085
Nah, that's the northerners that think blacks are some kind of joble savages because they've never seen them, so they applaud their daughters fourth black boyfriend. Surely this one will stick around after the baby.

>>10010087
obese momma*
obese kids*

>>10010087
Oh yeah, then I walk home because my bike is stolen or vandalized, again. Then I eat ramen because I somehow don't qualify for gibsmedats despite mounting debt.

>>10000244
Go Vegan stop eating shit food

>>10001413
>"lazy" white person wants industry to come back to his area so he can work hard and earn money
>lazy brown person wants the government to gibs him dat
kys

>>10007004
But poor people have substantially higher rates of obesity than the middle class?
You're an idiot.

>>10001480
Most brown immigrants are here for gibs, and the hundreds of billions they cost us demonstrate this, you fucking tard.

>>10010103
>superstitious faggot
eating more veggies is fine but fuck your cucked food religion

>>10010200
I'm not saying to tax the middle class into being poor. Middle class families who have any kind of reasonable budget are well off enough that they aren't eating unhealthy because that's all they can "afford". It's simply to make the healthy alternatives more appealing because it means they will be able to keep their standard of living with some adjustments to their eating habits. There are few things a person hates as much as having to lower their material standard of living.

It's easy to adjust the tax so that the poor and working class aren't affected much and will rather have more money with the lowered VAT. The raised minimum wage could be debated depending on your political affiliation, I'd focus more on making the fat and sugar taxes severe enough that the poor will be unable to subsist on junk food.

>>10010339
No, you dumb dumb nigger nogger, there is no reason to tax the middle class more. Middle class people already eat healthier than poor people, why would you make them poorer? All you are doing is increasing the chances they would eat poorly because they are now poorer. Fuck off you moronic cumstain.

>>10010352
Just because they eat healthier than the group with 50% obesity doesn't mean they are eating healthy. I'll get back to you when I find statistics on middle class obesity. If it's entirely a non-issue I'll concede the gradual tax point but still stand by the fat and sugar taxes.

And did you even read my posts or is it a knee-jerk reaction to me talking about taxes? What would you do to decrease obesity? Lower taxes for the middle class?

>>10010103
shove that shitty food religion up your ass faggot

>>10000255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqKPe9w5bUs

>>10010386
>26.5 percent of men with annual household incomes of less than $10,000 are obese compared with 24.6 percent of men with incomes of more than $75,000, the gap for women is dramatic—35.6 percent of women in the lowest income group are obese compared with 15.5 percent in the highest income group.
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2010/usobesity.aspx

In what way are the middle class exempt from the problems and why is it irrelevant to try and maximize the incentives for the middle class to eat more healthy by threatening to lower their standard of living? Suddenly only being able to afford a less fancy car will in no way affect their livelyhood, but it may make them reconsider their eating habits.

>>10010430
I forgot this little graph from the source.

>>10008465
Start fat, yes. Obese, no.

>>10008465
babies being fat =/= more than 50% of your bodyweight being fat as an adult

>>10010145
>prop up anachronistic useless manufacturing with subsidy gib me dats because billy bob and cletus are too lazy, stupid or think education is pretentious to go back to school to and learn something meaningful and useful so they can function

>>10000271
you should make them drink raw water lol

>>10010581
>raw
>water

>>10010616
It's the hottest thing in the Bay Area right now anon.
>Current year
>Drinking dead water

>>10010630
i prefer raw bleach desu

>>10008623
>The red States don't want your handouts anyways so they'd be all for cutting benefits.
lmao
You mean the red states want to pay less taxes but keep the same benefits.

why contain it? s'cool

>>10010386
>>10010430
>>10010436
>hmm poorer people eat less healthy
>how can we make the middle class eat healthier?
>I know, tax them so they're poor!
you are a retard
never make another post

You want to fix obesity? Not just middle class, but more importantly lower class obesity? Stop giving huge tax breaks and subsidies to corn and sugar companies. And maybe better funding for healthy lunch programs at schools so they actually get healthy food there, because obese children almost always stay obese as adults.

>>10011082
>And maybe better funding for healthy lunch programs at schools so they actually get healthy food there
So you're against taxation but you think it's up the schools to feed the kids.

No, people can feed their own fucking kids or they can stop reproducing. If it were up to the State to tell people how to eat, and it's not, it would, in my opinion, be better to simply teach them about it.
Do they even still have home ec. in schools? They should. They should teach kids how to bake a loaf of bread and make a meatball. They should teach them to peel and cut a carrot instead of buying it frozen in a bag. They should teach them to buy vegetables and fruits that are in season and that it doesn't all have to be brand-name stuff.
And maybe they should even invite the parents in to learn some of that shit too.
Make people know they have the option of eating not only healthily but also cheaply, but never force it on them.

>>10011124
no fuckin' way
how can a monkey get that fat?

>>10011124
>And maybe they should even invite the parents in to learn some of that shit too.
this would be the only way to stop this madness. The parents have to be on-board, because the kids aren't the ones with the food budgets

>>10001489
All of these diets work, if you consume less than you burn.

Even on Keto, you arent going to lose shit if you still overeat.

>>10001481
I know of a few fast food places that take EBT, including a Church’s chicken and a McDonald’s

>>10011082
I just showed you it isn't primarily an issue of income. The issue is still there for the middle and upper class.

I agree that the corn and sugar subsidies are way outdated and destructive. If the industries can't survive without subsidies they should just die off.

Better food at school would be a huge deal as well, it'd be able to set a standard for the kids growing up that they will hopefully want to follow. If you are used to proper food, junk food and tendies will be much less interesting once they grow up and start cooking for themselves.
>>10011124
So you are saying to keep serving pizza and other shit at school cafeterias?

>>10011082
One of the most pressing issues is how much soda and junk food is consumed. How do we get rid of this? I say by making it economically difficult to try and subsist on these things for as many people as possible. Am I wrong to think this way? How would you make it happen? I honestly don't care how, I just presented the easiest way I can see the middle class buying less shit.

And don't just talk about the poor because you know full well it's an issue for working, middle and upper middle class fanilies as well.

kill off niggers and the elderly

>>10011149
It happens when people feed them. Wild animals aren't geared for easy meals.

>>10011232
>So you are saying to keep serving pizza and other shit at school cafeterias?
I don't think it's up the schools to feed the kids at all. If you're any kind of parent you can take five minutes out of your day to put some sangewedges and an apple in a bag for your kids.

>One of the most pressing issues is how much soda and junk food is consumed.
Very true.
The thing is, people are either stupid or misinformed. Fat people almost invariably estimate their daily caloric intake to be much lower than it really is. That's why you can sometimes see someone write about how it MUST be genetic because he only eats like 1000 kcal a day and he's still gaining weight.
He's taking in three times that but he doesn't know it.

>>10011261
>stop feeding kids at school
I don't see how this will help decrease obesity, if anything it'll likely be made worse because they'll bring a bag of chips and a pb&j sandwich for lunch.

If it's an opinion you hold regardless of whether it will decrease obesity or not I don't see why you are bringing it up in this discussion.

>calorie counting
Do you have any suggestions to help people count calories? Maybe it'd help if calories were shown per package instead of per arbitrary serving size?

>>10000244
Forced Fatty Marches from one coast to the other and back again. Feed them only water and balanced meals. Shoot anyone that gives up or procures more food than you provide.

>>10011329
>I don't see how this will help decrease obesity, if anything it'll likely be made worse because they'll bring a bag of chips and a pb&j sandwich for lunch.
At first, probably.
But there are more important things than reducing population obesity. Otherwise you could just have actual food rationing.
You do still call yourselves the land of the free, right? Why do you need the State to feed your children?

Teaching people to take responsibility for themselves will take some time and there will be some "casualties" in the form of fat children along the way but down the line you need them to understand that they should feed themselves and they should feed themselves something healthy.
I think the resources spent on school lunches would be better applied to teaching the kids and the parents how to prepare something healthy and tasty to bring from home. And I think it will pay off for years and years after school ends, unlike those pizzas.

As for calorie counting, I don't think it's much of a help the average fat American to talk about these numbers at all. I was just pointing out that many of these fat people genuinely believe they're restricting themselves when they're not. They seem to lack a basic understand of what is fattening and how fattening it is. This applies especially to sodas and the "coffee" they get from such places as Starbucks.

>>10011347
Some employers pay out a bonus to employees who make use to the company gym or even based directly on the individual's weightloss.
The latter seems a little unfair since I can't lose 50 lb without dying but someone obese actually can, so he or she would get a bigger bonus than me. That's petty, though, and I should probably just be glad I didn't weigh 400 lb to begin with. I would have saved that money on food anyway.

>>10011375
I'm not sure I agree that that's the outcome we'd see from a sudden shift. It'd be interesting to look at research from states or countries where this is the norm and see what the difference is to when a reasonably balanced meal is served in school. My guess is that not serving food at all would be like throwing a ball at someone who simply doesn't care about catching it. If people were able to feed their kids we wouldn't have the current obesity trend to be begin with.

I believe the cultural attitude has to change before people are ready to take that responsibility. And it starts with habits, if you can make people eat normal and healthy food and expect that to be the norm they should keep doing it even when they aren't forced or incentivized to.

One of the easier ways to build that habit is through school lunches actually. I believe making fast food and junk food expensive enough that more people start consider it an occasional treat we'd see the start of a cultural shift as well.

>>10000244
Deport blacks, maybe Mexicans too.

>>10011560
I should add that I'm willing to try pretty much any and all methods, the optimal thing would be if each state implemented their own programs and solutions with proper annual follow-up reports detailing what they've done and an abundance of statistics. This way we'd be able to cross reference and weed out what doesn't work over the next couple of decades.

>>10006852
Middle Easterners rank high for obesity as well.

>>10009572
Oh yeah, that's reasonable. Bike for a half hour to the grocery store and then transport enough groceries for an entire family on a bicycle that same distance back.

>>10010087
We know it's you, Bill O'Riley.

this thread was enlightening.
liberals are hateful and have a hypocritical and blatant lack of self awareness that is absolutely horrifying.

There needs to be a big campaign to inform people about healthy living. Most people probably don't know stuff like salad is bullshit (lettuce has almost no nutritional value and depending on how much cheese, meat and dressing you use it might as well be a hamburger). They don't know that while exercise is good, it's SUPER easy to eat yourself into a hole you can't exercise yourself out of. We're at least a couple generations deep into people thinking that children's breakfast cereal is an acceptable meal when really it might as well be a big bowl of candy.

Bring back home-ec classes and give free cooking lessons that adults can take. A big reason why a lot of people don't like healthy foods is that their parents legit did not know how to cook and therefore they never had anyone to teach them. My mom's idea of cooking vegetables for dinner is opening a can of green beans, a can of corn and mixing them with an eensy bit of butter, salt and pepper. I was a teenager before I learned that you could make green beans that didn't make me want to gag.

Give proper school lunches. When I was in school, hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza, fried chicken sandwiches, etc. were the staples of the menu. Vegetables were either what I described above or "salad" that was just a cup of lettuce and tomatoes that had gone sour and yellow. It was rare to get fruit that wasn't just about spoiled. And don't let schools make money buy selling pizza, pop, chips and candy on the side.

And we need a big movement of locally owned fresh food providers with affordable prices. A mom and pop grocer or butcher is going to have way healthier food than Wal-Mart, and are less likely to have aisle after aisle of sugary high calorie junk assaulting you psychologically with bright colors.

>>10000932
Use /k/ to turn it from degenerate faggotry into productive faggotry.

Make drinking lots of water attractive. Bring back the PE classes that actually built muscle and drove the fatties to either stop being fat or off themselves. Let bullies do their fucking thing, so fatties can't escape the constant pressure to do better. Make sure that "fatshaming" is acceptable and/or expected on TV. If the libs say anything, make libs look like gluttons on TV.
>>10011819
Fucking this.

>>10012000
Dude if you wanna make fun of fat people for being fat just say so. You don’t have to pretend it’s a humanitarian act that will actually help people live a healthier life.

And contrary to the steady diet of /fph/ outrage porn you’ve injected yourself with, fat people have been society’s comedy punching bag forever and HAES/fat pride is not mainstream opinion.

>>10000244
exercise


and my peanuts weanuts of course :)

>>10000244
Cannibalism

>its a "/pol/ leaks from containment once again" thread
double-nigger

>>10012132
Good thing you bumped the thread to advertise the kinds of posts that troll you, now nobody will do it. You know, as opposed to more people.

>>10011946
>/k/
>guys with small dick penis envy circle jerking to muh popguns
Nah, I'll take /fit/, at least some of those guys aren't chodes or pencil dicks.

>>10000244

Legalize heroin

>>10011560
You may very well be right in assuming that would work. I just don't think it's up to the Government to engineer people's culture at all. I'd rather they were simply provided with the facts and allowed to choose for themselves.

>>10012275
The problem is that the food industry has trillions of dollars and piles of market research that allows them to mold the public’s habits. The government needs to do at least something to mitigate that because the public is no match for the food industy’s tricks.

>>10012275
I can respect that belief. I know the subject of when and where the government should get involved is very touchy. I think the state should be able to counterbalance private companies and be able to control vital things that people can't do without.

The problem with companies is that they prioritize profit over just about everything, and the problem with the state is that shitheads who prioritize their own profits get a position of authority too often and for too long.

>>10012000
>if the libs say anything

>>10012735
Libtards are the ones who pushed for "zero tolerance" bullying and this retarded culture of participation awards

>>10010078
>Ethnic Background
>American
what

>>10012759
American gym classes are shit but it's not because of a lack of bullying or that the teachers don't want to hurt the students' feelings.

It's because gym is just another in a long list of subjects where the American school system is lazy. It's easier to turn gym into a babysitting hour where the teacher lets loose a few basketballs to the kids who want to play and let everyone else just sit on the bleachers and do whatever if they so please than it is to actually put together an actual PHYSICAL EDUCATION course.

>>10012838
Those are the "Deliverance" types, nobody really knows where they came from or what they're descended from, but it's best to steer clear. This is the racial equivalent of people who say "Christian" when everyone else is being more specific.

>>10000244
stop subsidizing it

>>10000255
actually the belly fat comes from the sugar you drink at something like 90%.
cut the soda and "latte".

>>10013049
Holy broscience

You can get a belly from eating nothing but kale and dessicated 99% lean beef and drinking nothing but de-ionized water

Never post nutrition advice again, bertha

>>10000244
>38.7
>34

haha fatties btfo

>>10012073
You're right, I'm sorry.

>>10012869
Devos should make a gender segregation mandate and classes would be serious.

Not american, so I dunno if everything I'll say will be relevant but here are the main points:

1. Smaller sizes in restaurants and schools, supermarket brandings, smaller plates and glasses (not even kidding, it's shocking to see the average plate if you're not american)
2. Ban snacking facilities outside grocery stores, do not make kids eat snacks at school
3. Educate kids about nutrition in school as an important class, make sure school cafeterias have top notch meals in diversity.
4. Ban all soda at school
5. Consider PE as a very important class
6. Accomodate cities for bikes and walkers
7. Actually fight against sugar/milk lobbies

>>10013450
>7. Actually fight against sugar/milk lobbies
>milk
Hey, fuck you, man, that calcium is good for your fucking bones.

>>10000316
If you cut welfare All you're gonna get are starving people. Yes, you will reduce obesity, but malnutrition is ANOTHER social problem. You're fixing hole in a wall by filling it with asbestos.

If you seriously want to end obesity, INCREASE food welfare so poor people can afford food that isn't just fried carbs from a fast food joint.

The trick is that fast food/junk food is cheap, affordable and doesn't require spending time on it (which is useful for people who often work two jobs).

But if you increase food stamps, you will get double effect. First, people will need to work less to survive, so they will have time to cook at home; And second, they will have money to buy ingredients for healthier foods.

Once poor people will have time to start cooking at home, and get access to fresh fruits and vegetables, you will see obesity rates drop like a motherfucker.

>>10013425
No, then you'd just have double the shitty babysitting classes.

>>10013469
>increase welfare
>fast food is cheap
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>10012735
Mfw I live in the 2nd fattest state in the union where 48% of the state govt. is funded by CA and NY federal tax dollars but everyone complains about fed spending while riding in their scooters to get more chips and soda. 60% of MS is extremely obese, 30% are meth addled skellies and 10% are in reasonable shape.

>>10013464
Good for your bones? That's what they want you to think! j/k

But seriously, milk can be good, but many dairy products aren't. Cream, cheese, icecream, milk-based candy - I mean, where I live we have a cottage cheese that is advertised as a healthy dessert for kids.

Like, it's literally fucking cheese with sugar (and flavouring). You take a cup of fucking sweetened cheese, eat it with a spoon after spoon, and this shit is treated as if it was healthy. It's fucked up.

>>10013469
Seruously, you have to make that shit more expensive. A lot more expensive. Make decent food the only viable alternative. Heck, if you have high enough fat and sugar taxes the fast food restaurants may even start serving moderately healthy shit as an alternative.

>>10013484
If you add costs of spending up to several hours shopping for ingredients, preparation, cooking, cleaning dishes - and considering you could be spending all that time on getting a second job instead - yeah, it's cheap. And many poor people (i.e. people who use welfare) don't have a fully equipped kitchen.

Speaking of which, also maybe organize free public cooking classes? A lot of people, especially young adults don't know how to cook, so they rely on takeouts and stuff. Create public cooking spaces or something like that.

Maybe give subsidies to restaurants that have healthy food? That worked in Poland, we have something called 'milk bars' where they only serve warm vegetarian meals, and all products are subsidized (as long as restaurant meets certain requirements).
As a result, everything is cheap as dirt there, so old people and working class people (which according to >>10000244 are most likely groups for obesity) eat there all the time.

>>10013504
People always talk about taxing junk food and yet taxing cigarettes barely reduces smoking.

It's not going to work. All it's going to do is punish non-rich people, and possibly create a black market similar to untaxed cigarettes.

>>10013470
>double

P.E. would be amazing with the boys. Dodgeball is fun as shit and you could play real basketball.

>>10013526
There's already hustling chinese taking advantage of overtaxed sodas and shit. Raising taxes will only enrichen the chinks.

>>10013524
A 15 lb bag of rice and beans cost less than two day's worth of fast food. I can get a used instapot off of Craigslist for under $40 and let that cook while I'm at work. There's no excuse for being lazy.
Also, I can tell you've never encountered many people on EBT/welfare. Most of them use it on junk food and lobsters.

>>10013504
Look, again, you're thinking backwards. We're talking about poor people here.

Taxing junk food will only work if you will lower prices on healthy food at the same time. Idk, lower or remove sales tax on fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe create a new kind of food stamps that ONLY works for fresh produce.

People need to be able to afford food, or you're gonna create malnourished population, which, again - is as big of a problem as obesity. Probably even worse. Very few people eat themselves to death, but deaths from malnutrition are comparatively more common.

>>10001368

*Half of those are dishwasher pods, you detergent

>>10013526
If you want to look at trying to remove smoking from your culture, look at Asutralia.

>>10013550
Junk food is only cheap because its ingredients are subsidized by the government. Farmers grow corn and shit because it's more safe because they can rely on their government handouts.

>>10013550
I said in a post above that I'd like to see lowered or removed VAT specifically for healthy basix produce (however you want to classify that) to make that alternative even more attractive. Raising the minimum wage while you're at it will raise the fast food costs even more and give the poor yet again more money to spend on proper food.

Stop the subsidizing of sugar and corn while you're at it.

>>10013527
That doesn't solve the issue. What needs to happen is PHYSICAL EDUCATION. Even if I agreed with your stupid "let's get the girlies outta here so we can play some real ball" theory, that's still going to end up with the teachers just throwing out some balls and then fucking off to read magazines.

We need Physical Education classes that teach things like how to put together a workout routine that fits your goals, how to train to increase your strength and your cardiovascular health. How to properly warm up and cool down. How to learn proper lifting form so twenty years down the line you don't throw out your back lifting heavy boxes. What exercises you need to do to be prepared to save your own life in an emergency situation.

That's what we need in our schools.

>>10013545
>let that cook while I'm at work
Enjoy your house fire? Dude, you gotta be fucking retarded to leave a pot cooking without any supervision.

Plus, I hate to break it to you, moron, but rice is pure carbs. If you only eat rice you will get fat as quick as on hamburgers. Actually, McDonald hamburger is a healthier and more balanced meal than plain rice with sauce, so you might actually get fat on it faster than on burgers.

To be healthy you need balanced amounts of carbs, lean meat, and veggies. And that's not exactly the meal you can cook in an instapot.

>Also, I can tell you've never encountered many people on EBT/welfare. Most of them use it on junk food and lobsters.
Citation fucking needed? Though I have to commend that you have advanced slightly. You could've easily went for the old "45 and watermelon" bit, but you put in some effort to update your bullshit stereotypes slightly.

Also when did I say that people on welfare don't buy junk food? That was kinda entire point of my argument, that people buy junk food because it's tasty and saves time and effort...

>>10013545
>Most of them use it on junk food and lobsters
>lobsters
>>10011713

>>10013588
Yeah, sure. Good idea.

>>10013581
Actually, that makes sense. Where I live fast food is actually sorta expensive (you can buy ten loaves of bread for price of a McDonalds hamburger), so I guess that explains why fast food is so cheap in US.

>>10013063
>You can get a belly from eating nothing but kale and dessicated 99% lean beef and drinking nothing but de-ionized water
nope. You can't.
calories in*out don't work, it's the broscience. Because the body isn't an ipan with a battery. learn biology, learn chemistry.

>>10013596
>"let's get the girlies outta here so we can play some real ball" theory, that's still going to end up with the teachers just throwing out some balls and then fucking off to read magazines.

Students would be compelled to work hard out of competitive desire. Teacher doesn't even need to be there.

>how to put together a workout routine that fits your goals, how to train to increase your strength and your cardiovascular health

That's health class.

>How to learn proper lifting form so twenty years down the line you don't throw out your back lifting heavy boxes.

That's weightlifting class.

>What exercises you need to do to be prepared to save your own life in an emergency situation.

lmao no

>>10013657
>Students would be compelled to work hard out of competitive desire. Teacher doesn't even need to be there.

There's plenty of time and place for sports in physical education classes. But if you're not going to be doing any actual physical education then it's just babysitting. Fuck, just give kids back recess if all you wanna do is have them burn off energy.

>That's health class.
>That's weightlifting class.
Those both fall under the category of physical education. There's no need for them to be separated until you start getting to advanced, specialized levels.

>lmao no
Anon it's not even weirdo survivalist stuff. It's stuff like "these exercises work the same muscles you'll need to free yourself if something heavy falls on top of you"

https://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/09/15/every-man-should-be-able-to-save-his-own-life-5-fitness-benchmarks-a-man-must-master/

>>10000244
War.

>>10000244
Meth

>>10013724
>actual physical education
Whatever that means

>There's no need for them to be separated until you start getting to advanced, specialized levels.
Some people want to lift weights instead of play basketball, but in your stupid scenario there isn't the possibility of choosing. It makes even less sense when you consider how weightlifting feeds athletic programs and directly improves their performance which is in the direct interest of the AD who oversees pe classes.


>it's stuff like "these exercises work the same muscles you'll need to free yourself if something heavy falls on top of you"
How are you going to fill up a semester with these scenarios? A teacher could spend a week imparting this in health class if the information were actually important.

>https://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/09/15/every-man-should-be-able-to-save-his-own-life-5-fitness-benchmarks-a-man-must-master/
Teaching kids retarded shit like how to tip your fedora in the jungle is why they get disinterested in school. If you actually give them what they want then they'll stop dropping out and take it seriously.

>>10013858
>Some people want to lift weights instead of play basketball, but in your stupid scenario there isn't the possibility of choosing. It makes even less sense when you consider how weightlifting feeds athletic programs and directly improves their performance which is in the direct interest of the AD who oversees pe classes.

The way things are now most of the time students don't get a choice anyway. It's either play basketball or jump rope or sit on the bleachers. At my school the weight room was only for athletes anyway.

>How are you going to fill up a semester with these scenarios? A teacher could spend a week imparting this in health class if the information were actually important.

You don't have to spend an entire semester on that specifically. I'm not saying make PE ONLY about this stuff, but my point is that right now for most schools it isn't being taught at all. Also there's a big difference between reading how to do an exercise in a book and actually doing the exercise yourself.

>Teaching kids retarded shit like how to tip your fedora in the jungle
>200 yard dash
>swimming
>Jump over obstacles higher than your waist
>chin ups
>dips
Ah yeah, real "tip your fedora in the jungle" type stuff right there.

>>10014004
>>200 yard dash

Most people hate exerting themselves like that. You are only going to make kids hate being there and resign to going half-ass. If they're playing basketball then they are working their hardest, getting fit, and enjoying it.

>swimming
Says the guy who wasn't afforded a weight room.

>Jump over obstacles higher than your waist
>chin ups
>dips
You'd do exactly this if you wanted to take weight training. Also, you can't expect this shit from most girls.

Kids are stupid, just because a school has the information, resources and equipment doesn't mean that they will use them. Especially if they are going home to mom serving them a dinner of KFC for the 5th week in a row. The family environment has to be targeted too, but you can't make public announcements about how 1 in 3 Americans are too fucking fat without some union overreacting

We seriously need to legalize amphetamines and sell them over the counter. Too many people rely exclusively on cars and never walk any distance ever. Too many people drink soda like it's water. Also there quite simply is poison in Americas food but all the people in charge of regulating the food are corrupt.

A "weight yourself every day" campaign.

A person's body weight will fluctuate almost 5 kg depending on one's gut content and body moisture.

Caloric counting is only a helpful tool and not even really necessary with a regular daily routine. Regular weighting delivers the necessary correction factor to the inherent inaccuracies in the caloric content markings them selves, personal metabolism and portion size misjudgements.

It is also a huge personal for oneself for commitment.

>>10001481

>>10000271
>t. Bob Chipman

>>10006229
Fat animeposter detected.

>>10000244
I honestly don't know. I'm fucking fat and I hate it. I'm like 236lbs. I eat one meal a day of about a half lb of meat. I work out three times a week and I still can't lose a single pound.

>>10012838
>>10012876
Judging from what I know of Appalachia, mostly Scots-Irish mongrels descended from the first wave of settlers from Scottland and England who went up into the mountains of the South East and never came back down. Your blue-grass and moonshine types. Hillfolk.

>>10016656
>One meal
Are you trying to lose weight or kill yourself?

>>10000244
Latino's are even fatter.

>>10016795
>thinks Europedos aren't mongrels, just like everybody else....

>>10000255
/Thread

I don't want obesity to end. If there were no fat people around who's the next lowest on the totem pole? Me.

>>10017055
obviously a nigger

>>10013599
Do you turn off all your appliances before you leave the house?
What makes you think the cooker is more likely to malfunction than the fridge or the TV?

>>10016818
Whichever comes first

>>10013545
>junk food and lobsters
This gives me an idea for a special.