/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>4186008
>>4185982


The best steaks I can offer you are Flank Steak (if you must), Bottom Sirloin Tri-Tip Steak, and Top Sirloin Cap Steak (Steakhouse Sirloin). You *can* do other steaks pan frying or sautéing, but these are probably going to be your best results given your situation. If you're alright with roasting, dutch oven, or crock potting some meat items, I could give you some assistance there too.

Skirt Steak (fajitas), Tender Tips and Toast, and Beef Stir Fry would also be options that you could use with the top of the stove for some quick cooking and good tasting meals.

Let me know if there's something else I can help you with.

>>4185976
The smell of spoiling beef is completely recognizable for me, but it's hard for me to describe it to someone else... It'd be possible to tell if your nose got attuned to smelling spoiled pork, beef, and chicken. Until you know the scents though, I'd advise the method I have stated above.

Another fun rule is to say never leave a meat product in the fridge for more than 3 or 4 days... You don't know when it was cut (unless you have a butcher locally that cuts it in front of you), and you don't know how long they've had the cryo-vac'd beef before they cut it.

I figure if the beef is 5 days old, that's it's last day of life. Always assume it's 2 days old when you buy it, and use those last 3 days wisely to cook it. Obviously if it's a cryo-vac'd piece (airtight), then you have more leeway and can keep it around longer. But if it's just wrapped, my above rule applies.

I don't leave a cryo-vac in my fridge for more than 10 days, even though I know it can last much longer. Also look for expirations dates or best by dates just in case it was cut before the butcher got it, or in case it has some valuable tips on it.

>>4185982
Good steaks without a grill? Give me a minute or two to think about it and I'll write back soon.

>>4185976

Depending on the type of plastic used for the cryo-vac, a strange odor may be emitted from the packaging when it is first opened. If it smells foreign, strange, and artificial, it could be that smell.

However, if you remove it from the packaging and allow it to sit for a short while and the smell persists, there's a chance that something is wrong with your meat. You can always look for signs of spoiling as well. Look for discoloration (specifically green... as browning is a natural color change for meat called "the bloom"- meat turns red after being fresh cut and (within even hours sometimes) eventually the meat will brown again.

If you're really worried about a specific piece of meat, let it sit our for a few minutes and sniff it again. If you're worried about the smell yet, put a small slice into the beef. If the smell worsens, it's likely that your meat has spoiled or is starting to turn depending on the scent.

As the old saying says-- "When in doubt, throw it out", but many times people will throw away a piece of beef that is browning and doesn't smell bad; and that is unfortunate. Just make sure you give it proper time before sniffing it- as sometimes it's just the cryo-vac or sealing process that will lend some smells to the beef when the packaging is first opened.

Any questions for me tonight /ck/?

>>4184961

In a larger piece of meat the fell actually helps hold the juices in and keeps shape of the meat. The fell does have some variety of flavor to it though, so I suppose if you're looking to eliminate it, it makes sense- especially if you're doing a smaller piece of lamb. Typically the lamb at the store already has the fell removed by the time it's sent to us.

However if you did have to remove it... The fell is a relatively thin layer of material. Therefore, the best way to remove it is to work your way from one end. What piece are you trying to remove the fell from?

If you have an exposed end of meat, you can start from there. You'll want to get the knife underneath the fell and start making a small pocket so you can get your fingers on top of the fell. You'll then hold the fell with one hand, and cut open the pocket on one side and continually work down the opened side to eliminate the fell from that region. Then you can do the same on the other side. You will lose minimal meat if you keep tension on the tissue as you're removing it so that you can cut as close to the fell as possible and the meat will try to fall out of your way as soon as the fell is coming off.

It's like taking the silver side off of a fillet mignon.

At least, that's how I was taught. There's more than one way to skin a cat (or remove a fell in this instance).

It's still annoying no matter how you do it though.

>>4184944

Good to know it's called the "oyster"- Thanks for that. I do a lot of cutting, but I don't cook as often as I should... sometimes little bits like that get away from me. We just know of it as "the kernel" since it's a small area of tender meat. I was unsure if the cooking lure was true of it being the most tender bit ever, but I knew it was definitely a nice bit of meat attached to the lower back there.

Most of the day crew that works out front don't bother to save that piece when they're cutting up a whole frying chicken for a customer. They just cut between the joints and don't bother to start the cut, dislocate the joint and pull the rest of the leg off to keep the meat in tact. Granted, they're not really meat cutters, they're just staff on the front counter to wait on people. I guess someone will have to knock their blocks and fix it if they're leaving that tender bit on the back of the chicken for 'stockable product".

>>4184886

Skirt steaks are great for fajitas. Most places around here don't carry them though. I get a lot of folk coming in and asking for them- but we rarely stock them at my store.

Less commonly known- there are 2 skirt steaks--> Inside, and Outside. (picture related)

As far as I know, skirt steak is skirt steak... but you guys might know better down south than my local area would.

>>4184780

They almost look like center cut beef spares to me. Just given the concave nature of the bones in the pictures and judging by how the bones are on the center of the beef and not near the edge. Perhaps my eyes are a little shaky on it since they're cooked and not raw. Either way, they're around $5 USD around where I live per pound and a rack is typically more a pound or more. I'd say 2 racks would probably net $10-18 bucks depending on the size of the steer it came from.

Either way, they're delicious little bits and I'll know what to ask for if I'm in Texas now if I'm looking for some good ribs.

Thanks for the info- I'll toss it up in the cap.

>>4184742
Ah... post came in after I was typing and refreshed.

If they're center cut ribs, that'd probably be beef spare ribs... are they like pork ribs but beef? (pic related again)

I would hate to give you the wrong price/identification and have you lead astray- let me know what's up in your next post and I'll try to get to the bottom of it for you.

>>4184700

I do believe that shanks and leg bones work the best as far as I've experienced. One of my friends says the best thing to do is buy a veal breast, cut the breast thin and cook it to your preference and to use the veal breast bone for your cooking. I think it's too lacking of marrow compared to shank or leg bones, but he claims it works well.

>>4184727
It would depend on if you're talking about bone-in short ribs or boneless short ribs. The price on the East Coast where I live is approximately $3.99-4.99 per pound for boneless short ribs.

I'm not sure if the short rib changes from location to location, so I'll double check. The short ribs where you're from are cut from the Chuck section, right? They're quite marbled and are delicious and juicy if they're from there. (pic related)

We don't sell bone-in short ribs where I work, so I couldn't really tell you a "per rack" cost. We typically sell them in packs of 2-4 pieces at $3.99-4.99 a pound. They're definitely more expensive than they should be up here though. I know we could sell them for less and still make profit. They're not huge sellers here though for some reason, and sometimes get sent back to be ground up because of it.

Any questions for The Butcher today /ck/?

>>4184362
>>4183690

With different cutting styles being learned, you will eventually be able to save even the ugliest piece of beef (if you ever get boxed beef or a bad steer) by cutting it in a different way than the typical "trim and down" method. One of my butchers taught me to cut every single steak at an angle so that I could use the ends for tips/stir fry and have great looking steaks every time (though the grain changes slightly, obviously). Another taught me to cut wedges for T-bones and Porterhouses. If you cut the whole thing at a light angle, there's no end piece that wastes some of the strip loin from being sold for higher price steaks.

There's a lot to be said for learning from other butchers. In honesty, it's more of a blessing than a curse. Learn all of their methods, and once you've got your place in cutting, start to make it your own. They'll probably be alright with it unless you've got some hardy "my way or the highway" butchers.

It took me more than a year to learn everything the way all of them wanted it learned, and that was before they let me work on a carcass of beef anyway... I got to do a deer a few years later since my store doesn't allow hanging beef.

Long and short of it, be thankful that you're able to learn the butchering art- as it is a dying one. Even though it sucks to put up with all of the butchers at the same time, they're actually doing you a favor in the long run- so take in as much as you can and work through it all. I'm sure you'll get your own cutting style over the next year or so. Just know that it'll change for a while before it sticks with you, as you will have your own experimentation to do as well before you have your own tried and proved methods for cutting.

Best of luck, and best wishes
-The Butcher
(If you have more questions, please ask)

>>4183690
I agree completely with your first statement anon.

I had 3 different people training me, and they were all completely different.

There were 2 older guys a tall one, and a short one and then the younger guy was just a big guy in general.
The tall guy taught me how to cut efficiently and taught me where everything came from, how to cut it, and how to keep it appetizing without losing excessive weight.
The short guy taught me to take my time with every cut, make it look great, and give it 5-star appeal so that I'd never get a steak to come back to me. He was also a cook at his own restaurant for a long time, so he also taught me about the aspects of cooking. To add to that, he was also Italian- so lamb and veal were not off the table as options for cooking and flavoring. He was a pretty awesome guy.
The big guy taught me how to flick a knife around carelessly (in appearance, at least) within an inch of losing a finger for speed, and how to cut poultry in the wink of an eye. All of them were old school butchers, so they had their own take on the proper breakdown of a carcass of beef. It was definitely trying for my learning; but what are you going to do?

I was told immediately that I needed to learn all of their various methods so that I could take what worked for me and turn it into my own meat cutting approach. However, I was told that I needed to do *their* methods first before I was allowed to use my own. Depending on who I worked with, I needed to cut their way. I thought it was a huge pain in the ass at the time, because sometimes I'd be on with 2 of them, and when one left the back room the other would say "now you need to cut like me". However, now that I look back on it... it really made meat cutting excessively easy and understandable. Once you know how to take a beef apart (or even a sup primal) multiple ways, you can use any of the ways to cut your steaks, strip a beef, or even trim a roast. (continued in next post)

>>4183628
Veal bones are banging. They aren't too common in my store though, so I don't mention them as much as I should. We have meatloaf mix with beef, pork, and veal though. I suppose I shouldn't limit my answers on /ck/ based on my shop. Sorry about that.

>>4183656
Never had a fight over that before. I did have a fight over an order before though. Two brothers ordered the exact same roast, and the cuts were literally .13 of a pound different. Both of them wanted the same roast even though they were both individually labeled. For some reason, the heavier one was more desired. They fought for a good 5-10 minutes on the counter with their roasts sitting out before a manager shut them up and sent them on their way. They both looked the damn same- if anything, the smaller one was a better roast because it was the 1st cut from a Rib Roast rather than the other one who had lost its 1st cut to a few delicious steaks for another customer... customers man, I don't get it.

>>4183341
We have some people like that where I work.

I've cut Prime Ribs for Christmas where they ask for the bone cut and tied. When they come in, they wonder why I cut the bone off and retied it. They said they just wanted a slight cut in between each bone. I tell them that's cracking the bone, not cutting and tying. They've done it twice.

Many customers don't know anything about the product they are getting, don't want you to explain it to them, and buy something completely different from the advice you give them anyway.

I cut a fillet mignon the other night for a customer who came into the shop extremely late. She demands 2 inch steaks. I assume she's a pro, because that's a pretty legit sized fillet mignon steak. I cut it, just as she asked at 2 inches on the dot. After I have cut all 8 of her steaks (2 butt tenderloins), she complains and says that I didn't listen to her because they're way too thick. I ask her what I can do to correct her order. She says she wants them half as thick as they are. I say it'll be no problem, and I'll be right back. I cut the steaks right down the center and take 8 of them back out to her. She says that they're too fatty, and no one would ever buy something so disgusting. >mfw I cut them as you would see on premier cooking shows and everything that is not proper has been removed. I ask her what she wants me to do to make the steaks right. She says they're still a little too thick and she wants any fat cut off of them. I bring out the saddest looking fillet steaks you've ever seen. They're about 1 1/4 inch in diameter, 3/4 inch thick, and completely devoid of fat. The marbling is very light too. She thanks me and takes her steaks (finally) but complains as she's walking away on her phone about the incompetence of the workers at my store, and that she's almost embarrassed to be seen shopping in our department because of our failures and lack of customer service.

I will avoid her at all costs for the rest of my life.

Good evening /ck/. If you have any questions for me tonight, please ask. I'll be glad to help answer as many questions as I can before I retire for the night.

>>4181343
To answer your question from last night...

My favorite cut would have to be the Cap Steak/Steakhouse Sirlion. It's very juicy, it has good marbling, and it has great flavor. You can use them for almost anything. Steaks, tender tips, stir fry, and even a roast if you get the entire cap. It's a bit expensive for a roast, but it's absolutely delicious.

My favorite recipe would take too long to figure out. I appreciate a lot of different meals for what they are, and some have childhood or family ties that make me think of them when I eat them. For these reasons, it makes it hard for me to select a singular dish.

Good morning /ck/ The Butcher is in for a few hours if you have any questions today.

>>4181343
To answer your question from last night...

My favorite cut would have to be the Cap Steak/Steakhouse Sirlion. It's very juicy, it has good marbling, and it has great flavor. You can use them for almost anything. Steaks, tender tips, stir fry, and even a roast if you get the entire cap. It's a bit expensive for a roast, but it's absolutely delicious.

My favorite recipe would take too long to figure out. I appreciate a lot of different meals for what they are, and some have childhood or family ties that make me think of them when I eat them. For these reasons, it makes it hard for me to select a singular dish.

Any more questions for me yet tonight /ck/?
I'll take as many as I can before I head to bed and I'll answer any unanswered questions as soon as I wake up.

>>4181035
Oh, my mistake.

I don't know the quality of anyone else's washing process, but I would check the intestines very closely to check for residues. Green residue doesn't sound like something I'd typically see with my casings... but, perhaps we get uncommonly cleaned casings. If you do get them, I would advise a thorough cleaning of the casings. Perhaps give them a nice bath and make sure that water is passing through the entirety of the intestine so that you can make sure you're removing all particles that are unclean. Some people would argue that you should boil them before you cook them, and some would argue that a nice warm water bath and a solid cleaning would do it for you. Not having cooked chitterlings myself, it makes it a bit harder for me to give you specific advice. I hope the general advice will be enough to help you make a decent decision next time you're at the market.

Poke around a bit to see if you can find anyone else with them too and compare the condition of the chitterlings or intestines.

>>4180965

Typical hanging time (beef is technically "aged" before it is boxed) is between 3-5 days around where I am. Though it's possible for a week or so to go by before it's completely parted out or sold if it's a local butcher shop. So long as the conditions are right, you are technically dry or wet aging the beef while it's sitting in the carcass and you will just need to trim off anything that's unappetizing.

Other areas will certainly have their own practices though.

>>4180940
I actually have no deli experience. I'm from a solely meat cutter, meat clerk, and butcher learning approach. I know how to make some bologna and salami if I needed to as well as sausage, but aside from that I'd have no idea what goes on in a deli.
I've cut plenty of items thin during my time in the department though. I've done plenty of Philadelphia style cheesesteak meat (thin cut/sliced Delmonico steak) though. Sorry I don't have much more information on that though. I'd be happy to slice meat as thin as anyone would require though if it was asked of me. If I can't do it by hand, the slicer can do it no problem.

>>4180947
Flank steak and skirt steak have become incredibly popular due to cooking channels and the broader acceptance of foreign cooking styles. Skirt steak used to be thrown away or ground into grinds because it wouldn't sell otherwise. Flank steak was considered tough since it came from the side of the animal. For some reason, we've developed ways to cook these particular items that make them come out delicious and tender, and for this reason they're now high class delicacies. Also, they are typically somewhat small pieces on the animal when you get them, so it's a quantity and demand for the pieces as well.

To get cheap Flank and Skirt Steak... I'm not 100% sure where you should go. Carnicerias would be your best option... but, I'm not certain of where else you could go. Sometimes you can find them on sale, and that's the best time to get them.

Another item that has gone up in price from being completely useless is the Flat Iron steak... Those were typically ground up too. Now they're $6.59 or so a pound around here.

>>4180927

I could try to post a few videos about cutting meat on YouTube again sometime. I make sure that I go really slow with it. Unfortunately, it's not really butchering- it's just meat cutting (taking sub primals from a box and cutting them into steaks/roasts). If you're interested in learning how to part out a whole bottom round, you can use this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aTp-6JdY

It's about 7 minutes, but it should cover everything you'd need to know about cutting one for the first time.

If enough of the community on /ck/ would be interested, perhaps I could try to get more videos online.

I agree that butchering can be an art rather than a trade... especially in modern times. However, It's an important trade for society- therefore, there should still be some schools/classes available somewhere.

>>4179447

-I am located on the East Coast.
-I'm not sure if there are day classes or hands on classes that can be taken, but if you can find a butcher to take you under their wing for a little bit, that'd be a pretty sweet way to learn it. I'd say check around on the internet to see if you can find classes, but I am not sure if they exist.
- In regards to the "limited selection", we do have beef, angus beef, pork, turkey, chicken, cornish game hens (frozen), duck (frozen), veal (typically by order), lamb (typically by order), specialty patties (bacon cheddar, pepper and onion, steak patties, etc), and quite a few items I'm sure I'm missing. Typically people are most interested in beef though.

We get pigs feet, pig stomachs, cow heart, kidney and tongue on occasion. Rarely you will see ox tail or neck meat... but it's pretty rare.

If you have some questions in particular in regards to butchering, perhaps I could answer them more in detail in another post. Just let me know.

>>4179447
I'm actually headed out the door right now, but I'll answer your questions as soon as I get home tonight. Probably around 9:45 EST. Sorry to make you wait.
-The Butcher
For everyone else, if you have more questions please ask and I'll get to them as soon as I'm back from work. Thanks for your continued interest /ck/!