Artist Alley Thread: I don't even anymore edition

[Corky-Lunn !CorkyloMxc No.9978055]

last thread: >>9962716

>Please read the FAQ before posting in the thread (always updating)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PpDyjw2LDxbupdvHMNsBUOBVB66Lzwf44RM1You1GDA/edit?usp=sharing
>Resources
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10uNmynwRn6CRc-OMqCeXmJwCNnEnd-vYi-7AQzSx74I/edit?usp=sharing
>Artist Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESQ-1h4IRUivbGNaxJFxXyDU1lSv26xTmMdH0sDX7sU/edit?usp=sharing
>How to order from Vograce (now with video on how to set up files)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18UxKnpgrmeb82NnW5e4YIEX-eZ3zHt178Mp6i0A5gME/edit?usp=sharing
>Convention List (always WIP)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13o7hD5xS3sDqVptnTVGUlRae3ovEE-vPPST_QOrQwtM/
>IP taketowns (based on artists contribution, may or may not have been a one time thing, use as a guideline)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1696MDhNPhrZ0ySZhXkoJnGxb7l1OjW4JsVhu1wKvaWE
>AA Inspo (thanks anon!)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1D19QV9nHwaY8AaNiEXZAAkEhkBTSsb01?usp=sharing

If anyone else has inspo photos they'd like possibly added to the above link, email the account [e-mail]

We have a discord!
If you want into the CGL AA discord, email [e-mail] with a picture of your table or merchandise. It is not a jury, just to make sure you do cons.

[Anonymous No.9978102]

I'm gonna be super blunt. If I don't file my taxes re: online sales, is anyone gonna know or can I totally get away with that? I have a full time day job and my Etsy is an on the side thing. I know technically you're supposed to report all income, even if it's just a hobby, not making a profit, only making a little profit, etc. but like I Don't Care unless I'm going to get in trouble for it.

[Anonymous No.9978104]

>>9978102
chances of getting caught are slim BUT you will get royally fucked over if you do because all online transactions are registered. If you want to cheat the tax man, do it with cash.

[Anonymous No.9978107]

>>9978104
Darn. Better safe than sorry. Thank you anon.

[Anonymous No.9978118]

>>9978102
It's automatically reported if you exceed $10k in sales.

Not saying that there's no way to get caught otherwise, buut

[Anonymous No.9978188]

>>9978102
It's the kind of thing that you might get away with for a few years but then will come down on you hard when/if they catch you, especially if you are making decent money. In addition to demanding all back taxes be paid they can also apply penalty fees which can be in the thousands, and that goes for both federal and state. There's rarely jailtime for small time tax evasion like that but it is a possibility if someone wants to make an example of you or you can't pay the penalties. Just don't risk it buddy.

[Anonymous No.9978260]

Just as a heads up to people in the US, my most recent zaps order got hit pretty by import/duty taxes. I didn’t think we had them in the US, thought they were only a UK thing, but please be aware this could happen to you.
It was a nice “pay us tonight $130 or your package doesn’t get delivered tomorrow” type of scenario so be aware.

I’ve ordered from zaps 10+ times, but this is the first time I’ve ever been hit so I don’t know if there’s a new tax policy in America or something, but it was a solid “ouch” that I honestly didn’t know even could exist.

[Anonymous No.9978262]

>>9978118
>$10k
Ntayrt, but I thought it was $20k? Etsy sent me an email at $15k saying I was getting close to my $20k threshold, and at $20k they would have to report it and give me a 1099 form.

[Anonymous No.9978283]

>>9978260
>I didn’t think we had them in the US
What? I thought the US always had custom fees, just that there was a high threshold (as opposed to Europeans) so personal purchases usually don't get hit.

[Anonymous No.9978286]

>>9978260
was it an additional charge by the post office? It wasn't factored into the shipping when you placed your order?
I was just about to order 50 count of charms from Zap, which comes to $120-ish total on the site, shipping included... But fuck no I don't want to be hit with a surprise $130 from the post if that's the case...

[Anonymous No.9978291]

>>9978260
How big of an order was this and which shipping service? I've seen this happen when shit gets shipped through UPS in the thousands of dollars (when it's obvious you're importing to resell), but not through USPS/DHL/FedEx yet.

And yeah, technically we're supposed to be paying both use tax and duty fees on anything we're buying from outside our states of residence (if those laws apply), but I've never seen this fully enforced.

Well, except in airports, and that's only if you're actually reporting high ticket items yourself or you're carrying 10k+ in cash.

[Anonymous No.9978299]

>>9978118
>>9978262
>Who gets 1099-K forms?
>Etsy shop owners who use Etsy Payments to process over $20,000 in gross sales for more than 200 orders in a given calendar year.
>If you have more than one Etsy shop, you’ll get a 1099-K for each one if their combined sales meet that threshold.

[Anonymous No.9978332]

>>9978260
>>9978262
>>9978286
>>9978291
As far as i've understood it customs stuff is random in the US but it's likelihood is just lower than europe/canada. I've ordered HUGE orders of stuff from china before and not gotten hit by anything but randomly got hit for much smaller orders by UPS too.

[Anonymous No.9978334]

>>9978262
My $10k threshold is through paypal. I take all my payment through paypal, so even if my online store limit is different, that's the lowest barrier.

[Anonymous No.9978480]

I know there's a ton of variables that would go into this but how long do you usually work on a print or any piece of merch?

I'm relatively new to doing digital/illustration type stuff so I'm just not sure what is considered overworking something, or if it would be more beneficial to not spend too much time on a single piece as I'm still kind of testing the waters.

[Anonymous No.9978492]

>>9978480
I can do 4 charms a day if I'm really pushing things, or 2 if I want to take it easy. I usually end up rushing my prints with no interesting compositions and they take a day or two max.

Sketching one day and then coming back another day to finish the rest makes things go faster though. Keeps you fresh.

[Anonymous No.9978499]

>>9978492
>4 charms a day
Wow, that sounds super low quality. Theyre probably only one sided, correct?
Have some self-respect in your art anon jeez.

[Anonymous No.9978503]

>>9978499
Naw, they're just easy to do after enough practice and studying. It's not like I'm just starting out.

Also it's really easy to make something double sided, sorry you're so slow.

[Anonymous No.9978510]

>>9978480
Tom Scott made a good video today that kinda answers that. His video is about youtube, but applies to any business really
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0AMaW4XRCI

tl;dw time spent on something =/= success

[Anonymous No.9978548]

>>9978499
cool bait bro

[Anonymous No.9978555]

>>9978480
Prints take a week of straight work, I always want the entire/most of the cast in it and since the majority of my income comes from charms, I have the time to put a lot of care into them and not have to do the FOTM print race. Charms take three to four hours each.

[Anonymous No.9978560]

I've been building up inventory to start entering AAs and sell online, but I'm really intimidated by all the taxes. I've been reading as much as I can on them but I'm still really confused on what permits I'll need, and I'm really intimidated by not filling them out right and getting fined out the ass. Am I just making them out to be a bigger deal than it is or what?

I'm in the U.S, specifically Texas. Anyone have any advice on what forms or permits to get first especially if I want to start selling online first? Do people usually make multiple shops? I was thinking of just hosting my own site for my store.

[Anonymous No.9978608]

>>9978102
Why would you cheat taxes on something that there is a digital record of... that could be checked on at any time?

[Anonymous No.9978635]

For the past year, I've been low key adding swastikas to my work. Prints, charms, embroidery files. No one's caught on or pointed one out, I just hate doing artist alley so much at this point that idgaf anymore.

[Anonymous No.9978645]

>>9978635
And?

[Anonymous No.9978653]

>>9978635
why would you continue doing something you hate? get a regular job like all the other normies if if it bothers you that much

[Anonymous No.9978656]

>>9978260
Speaking of Zap
what happened to that anon that got their charms fucked up by zap

[Anonymous No.9978673]

>>9978560
Every state and possibly county has different rules about permits. You should find out where your local tax office is and call them up and ask them about it. Most offices have some idea these days of what kinds of permits small businesses like etsy sellers need. They'll also be able to tell you how to file sales tax, which is separate from your state and federal taxes and usually has a different deadline.

This stuff is not a big deal once you learn it. Honestly most of the tax boards are absolutely clueless about how to categorize small internet business so they might have no idea what to do with you. You might not even need a permit for online sales under a certain amount where you live. Or they might not understand what you do and tell you to register for something that's far above what you're actually doing. If something seems off about something they ask you to do, call them and talk through it.

[Anonymous No.9978675]

>>9978635
Then get out of the business and leave it to people who genuinely enjoy the experience but can't get in anymore. I hope someone figures out who you are so you get blacklisted from every con.

[Anonymous No.9978683]

>>9978635
eh, gotta be bait (potentially w additional goal of making people go and stare at shit they've bought to see if it's you)

[Anonymous No.9978686]

How much quality do you guys expect per sticker price? I see my friend selling 2"/3" stickers from sticker mule for $5 and my mind is semi-blown cause I see other artists selling the same for $3. What kind of quality do you guys expect from a $1 sticker vs $2 vs $3, etc?

[Anonymous No.9978687]

>>9978686
I sell my stickers for $7 or 8, but they're pretty big (around 4x6"), on weather proof vinyl, and are precisely cut (no white border).

[Anonymous No.9978688]

>>9978635
Just curious, what do you hate so much about doing artist alley?

[Anonymous No.9978701]

Best/cheapest office chain store to get to get prints? I'm finishing one last minute for CRX and my printer won't be able to get it out in time.

[Anonymous No.9978706]

>>9978688
Customer service?
Also setting up.

I've finally gotten organized where everything's in a bin and labeled so that transactions run smoother and quicker.

My helper joked that maybe one day artists will set up modern Japanese vending machine at their tables. And have customers select and buy their art through the machine just to avoid any human interaction.

[Anonymous No.9978710]

>>9978686
$5 for a weatherproof 3" vinyl sticker is pretty normal, anon. $3 is what I'd expect for non-vinyl stickers printed professionally or through a laserjet at home on gloss paper. $1~$2 is like... bad print-at home on label sheet quality with deskjet.

[Anonymous No.9978727]

>>9978710
I feel like a few years ago sticker prices were lower so I guess I haven't looked around enough recently.

[Anonymous No.9978731]

Discuss

Is it:
>Artist Alley
>Artists Alley
>Artists' Alley

I've seen all three used, even at the bigger cons.

[Anonymous No.9978779]

>>9978560
Ughhhhhh Texas is such a pain in the ass. You need to have a throw away phone number because when you register for sales use tax they make your business information public until you go ask them to remove it. You also have to file quarterly and if you don't there are fees. Texas is one of the few states you have to take seriously when you do sales tax. However one nice thing is they are good about sending you reminder letters and their online system works pretty good

[Anonymous No.9978803]

>>9978731
Artistn’t

[Anonymous No.9978887]

>>9978731
>>Artists' Alley

[Anonymous No.9978902]

>>9978731
>>9978803
arti'st'd've'dist'd'n't'st'd've'll's'd've're'n't'y'all'll'ven't

[Anonymous No.9978915]

>>9978727
More like most stickers sold years ago weren’t weatherproof. In general, fanmerch is more industrial quality nowadays, and the prices reflect that.

[Anonymous No.9978928]

>>9978560
Not this anon, but also in Texas. Do I need a sales tax permit if I'm only doing online sales or will reporting everything be fine?

[Anonymous No.9978964]

>>9978673
>>9978779
Thank you anons! I'll probably just wait until I set up my inventory before I set up all the tax stuff.

[Anonymous No.9978980]

>>9978260
This happened to me but with UPS. They are known for doing this illegal shit where they pretend the package had been in their storage more than 2 days and charge you a crazy amount of money for it.
I'm not from the US, but I wouldn't be surprised they pull the same shit in other countries.

[Anonymous No.9979138]

>>9978706
I'd like to hear your customer service stories!

For the most part, my customers are fairly nice. Just dumb some times. But I always figure, it's probably worse working in regular retail, than AA retail.

[[e-mail] No.9979347]

>>9978701
Use a local chain. I use a place called ProdigyPress in Sunnyvale (about 15m away from the con, although tbf it's like 5m away from me and on the way to the con lol). They always do my last minute orders and they're definitely cheaper than what you'd have to pay at an office supply store.

Otherwise, Fedex kinko's in dtsj

Lmk if you want me to pick up for you. Email's up top.

[Anonymous No.9979376]

>>9979347
Super helpful; thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.9979452]

if i draw a sticker design that is a sort of parody/reference to a lolita print, is that kosher?

for example, if i liked this, and i draw my own black and purple beaded ribbon frames, but instead of beauty items it has...idk, framed voltron lions.

i am selling fanart afterall, so i don't even know if this is a thing to be worried about.

[Anonymous No.9979467]

>>9979452
It can pass as parody if you make it look like one, down to imitating the art style and staying in line with the themes. Pic related for example, while controversial and deemed tacky by some, does pass as a parody because it imitates the style that's used by and is recognizable as the brand to make a funny/ironic reference directly related to lolita fashion.
Voltron may not work as well because the style clashes so much and it's completely detached from the fashion so I feel like you'd risk looking like you stole the artistic idea from AP. I do think it's doable but it really depends on the idea you have in mind and the execution.

[Anonymous No.9979536]

>>9978688
Setting up.

I’m solo majority of the time and whenever I set up I always see like teams of people helping to set up one table and then there’s solo little ole me. I always feel eyes watching me and catch glimpse of people staring at what I have (I have stuff that catches attention). I started wearing headphones to set up so I can just focus on the music and my set up, but then people will come to stare and go through my stuff and it’s like ‘nooooooo’. I know some people enjoy when other vendors come and shop on a Thursday since it’s their time to get away, but it’s so distracting.

Other than that I really dislike the dull moments like around 4-5pm where AA feels dry? If I’m solo I close up and go get lunch, stretch my legs etc. I feel bad leaving my table, but it drives me nuts if I stay there all day.

Lastly, I really hate that last person that runs over to buy one $1 item, 10 minutes after AA has closed and that item is already at the bottom of the bins ready to go home.

[Anonymous No.9979583]

>>9979536
Jesus christ, get a new job then

[Anonymous No.9979601]

>>9979536
holy shit anon are you really so autistic as to not have any AA friends or are willing to make small talk with your table neighbours? I love having people I only see every few months coming over to chat and keep me company when I set up.

I agree with the rest of the anons saying this isn't the job for you if you really can't stand it.

[Anonymous No.9979642]

>>9979536
So you have social anxiety, and you run an AA table? Why?

[Anonymous No.9979649]

>>9979536
Oh my god, you absolute autist. You know you're not forced to be solo, right? You can also have a helper! Fucking amazing, isn't it? You don't even need to have friends to have a helper. I know a few artists whose helpers are actually just local superfans. They get paid in merch and a con badge.

[Anonymous No.9979701]

>>9979536
I'm solo at every con and.. i have no idea how you feel. If anything people always ask if i need help and are so fucking nice to me but I never need it because I'm used to doing every con solo. If i'm not ready to help anyone i just say hey could you come back in 10/30/1hr etc. same with i already packed up if i really can't get it i'll just say sorry it's too far packed. everyone is more than understanding and super sweet...

[Anonymous No.9979724]

>>9979701
>same with i already packed up if i really can't get it i'll just say sorry it's too far packed.

Yeah seriously. >>9979536 are you just displaying merchandise you've already packed away or something? Protip: Pack the displays away or smack a sticky note that says "sold out" on top. Let people know that they can buy whatever it was on your online store.

[Anonymous No.9979731]

>>9979701
I also do every con solo and I've never had an issue

[Anonymous No.9979781]

>>9979731
Same. I have a massive-ass charm display with tons of other merch like books and pencil pouches, and though I don't particularly like setup or takedown it's never like... An issue?

I consider it a privilege to be able to go to cons and talk to fans, and make a good chunk of money doing so. >>9979536 If you hate it, what the fuck are you doing here? There are plenty other profitable ventures that you'll hate just as much as this, Just go do something else that you'll hate just as much but makes more money, like retail or drawing furry porn or something.

[Anonymous No.9979785]

>>9979536
Yeaaa.. I don't think AA's are for you. Most times, I do cons solo as well and set up by myself too. But I don't think it's too bad. It's just the long hours I hate, like Otakon's 10-11 PM hours. I feel like there's worse jobs in the world, or worse life situations to be in (ie. garbage man, min wage worker at dead end job with long hours). So I'm always really grateful I can make a living selling my animu art. This type of opportunity never existed even a decade ago. If you were an artist and wanted to make a living, your career path was to work in the art industry where anime style was not acceptable.

[Anonymous No.9979799]

>>9978480
Prints anywhere from 20 to 50 hours. Although if I don't like the way it turned out I'll put it away for a while and clme back to it later. One print took me 6 months because I didn't have a good way of doing an effect I wanted and I kept working and reworking it.

[Anonymous No.9979897]

>>9978731
well going off >>9979536 for some people it’s Autist Alley

[Anonymous No.9979910]

>>9979897
"autist" samefag go home
autist alley is a little apt to describe the customers though

[Anonymous No.9979951]

>>9979910
>two or three of the zillion anons mocking me used the same fitting word so it's a samefag
Sorry that you hate the business so much now fucking leave so the rest of us can encroach on your share of the market

[Anonymous No.9979962]

>>9979951
it's either samefagging or vendetta, consider the amount of leaps in logic you would have to take:
1) assume that anon is the original poster of the bait (since there was more than one reply to the anon asking why op was still in aa)
2) assume the anon is autistic for feeling somewhat anxious when doing shows
3) assuming that i am either anon

[Anonymous No.9979964]

>>9979962
I don't actually understand the first bullet point, but regarding the second, for better of worse 'autist' has become a general 4chan insult for social awkwardness. And about 'assuming i am either anon'...i mean, >>9979910 is the one calling samefag when there were no less than ten posters saying the same thing, so, take that complaint to them.

[Anonymous No.9979970]

>>9979964
scroll up dumbass
two people replied to >>9978688 and neither of them sound like >>9978635

[Anonymous No.9979974]

>>9979964
Autist is the new retarded. It’s not even limited to just 4chan; even normalfags use it to insult socially awkward people.

[Anonymous No.9979976]

>>9979970
Oh. Yeah you right I totally forgot about the swastika b8poster. But that first post has nothing to do with the fact that their post is independantly getting insulted/mocked and I made one (1) post calling them Autist Alley and other people made the other ones so idk why you'd bring it up. dropping this now, there's no way to prove to you that multiple anons happened to independantly think they are a dumbass who needs to quit AA, rather than "vendetta" (against an anon...?) or samefagging.

[Anonymous No.9979985]

>>9978656
Would also like to know this. Fucked-up-charms-anon where r u

[Anonymous No.9979988]

>>9979985
They're in the discord and it looks like Zap fucked up yet another order from them.

[Anonymous No.9980006]

Lol. Today in my illustration senior thesis class, my professor started ripping into con artists, remarking that a lot of past students he thought had great potential are now working regular day jobs only taking private comissions/making fan merch/going to cons. Ultimately its just not sustainable, he says.
"20 years down the line, you're not going to be a 40 yr old selling fanart of sailor moon at an anime ocn, that's just sad"

Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.9980010]

>>9980006
Here's the thing though, if you can keep up with trends it's actually... totally possible to do just that? I have friends who work in the animation industry and their jobs are all contract-based so as soon as a show wraps up, they're immediately looking for new jobs. Magazine illustrations also work similarly where job security doesn't really exist like with other careers. (The only art-related field where I can see someone having career stability without reaaplying after a project is over is an in-house graphic designer.)

Cons aren't going away. Fandom isn't going away (although popularity may change). On top of all of that, the competition for art careers are high, and honestly a lot of it is who you know so if you didn't 1) either make connections through an expensive school or 2) actively network - you're not gonna be able to get these jobs in the first place.

Like yeah, if we could all find steady well-paying jobs in the professional art world, I'm sure we would all do that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to manage your own time and do cons though. A lot of the more successful convention artists go into originals eventually anyway (webcomics, apparel brands, indie publishing). And a lot artists who do cons make industry connections THROUGH cons. I have friends who were hired to do cover illustrations for comics and friends who ended up working at Disney because a rep liked their fanart, etc. Not everything is black and white like your professor is saying.

[Anonymous No.9980016]

>>9979988
Well, this time it’s more like a mix of their own mistakes and Zap fucking up.

[Anonymous No.9980019]

>>9980006
Well, I kind of agree. Of course, I'm probably biased because I've never considered AA as a full time job (my career focus is completely unrelated to art), nor do I make enough bank to justify making it full time. To me it doesn't feel stable, and the traveling/constant preparation/not knowing how shows will turn out/if I'll get into a con would just stress me out and wear me down, and if I were to make this an until-I'm-40-job I doubt I'd be able to keep up with all the energy that doing AA full-time requires.

HOWEVER!! for people who CAN make it sustainable, by all means go for it. I mean, you're still making money aren't you? I'm not sure what your professor means by "people who had a lot of potential" because there's plenty of potential and $$$ to be harvested in AA.

[Anonymous No.9980040]

>>9980010
I don't agree fully with that professor, but there is a point in there. Are we really all gonna get to 50 or 60 retirement age still doing conventions, keeping up with the hot trends in younger and younger generations, alongside the younger and younger crowd entering the market after us? The best a lot of AA artists can hope for is to save up enough to retire early, or establish a good long term baseline business which kind of runs itself later in your life, and hope that people are still buying anime fanart and enamel pins in 30 years. We could easily slip into a depression in the next decade or so if we don't get our political shit together so who knows if that's even going to be a thing.

I know a lot of us don't have a lot of employment options so I'm sure lots of people are gonna try, it's not a tested territory so maybe AA is gonna be full of grandmas in a few decades. I'd actually be very excited about that. But I just don't see the young folks getting all that jazzed about picking up their fanart from a bunch of 40-50 year olds.

[Anonymous No.9980044]

>>9980006
He just sounds jealous desu. Sorry a bunch of 20-30 year olds figured out a way to work from home most of the time and fly around the country lol, as if an "industry" job these days is any more secure. Watching peers scramble from contract to contract, test after unpaid test doesn't exactly make his alternative sound great. Unless he's out there offering jobs to us, he can shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.9980047]

>>9980040
Industry art jobs don't have any more security than tabling at cons do due to the nature of the work like I mentioned earlier. Unless you're an in-house graphic designer all the other professional industry level work would be on a contractual basis and after your contract is over, it's up to you to find another project. For the professor to act like students are giving up tons of benefits and job security by doing cons is... just wrong.

I will agree that relying on ONLY fanart might not work for years to come but again, as I mentioned - that's why people start doing original work like apparel and comics in addition to cons. If you have a popular enough original IP, you could definitely... just do cons for the rest of your life if you wanted. A ton of comic artists already do that, including people in their 50's+. Fanart isn't entirely a bad thing either since there are people who have gotten hired by IP holders for having good fanart.

[Anonymous No.9980052]

>>9980019
>>9980040
On the topic of artists and con creatives being 40s/50s that actually IS the case at comic and SF cons — and i imagine a big reason why is that they’ve been going (in the west) since the 70s or earlier so the audience includes older people now, and can picture such a thing happening with anime cons. Audience and sellers will both include older people.

[Anonymous No.9980053]

>>9980006
Honestly, the main reason I see AA being unsustainable is for the fact that it seems like conventions as a whole are reaching a limit. Growth is slowing down or reversing entirely, as opposed to the exponential boom of attendees over the past few years. I know a nearby con that has fallen from 100k attendees to 50k attendees in just a few years. Sure, some cons are still doing really well, but it's slowing down. New cons have popped up all over the place and have over saturated the market, spreading the money around. I feel like, from my experience with talking to general attendees, people are starting to get disillusioned with conventions as well.They're only getting more and more expensive to attend, and unless we're talking big cons like AX, most attendees have experienced a lot of the panels and events before and are getting more bored as time goes along.

Additionally, tables are getting harder and harder to get. Even if you're an amazing artist, there are only so many juried cons. FCFS is becoming closer to lottery with the amount of people going for it, and lottery in itself is wildly unreliable.

I don't think cons are going away, but the "con success" feels like a bubble close to bursting.

[Anonymous No.9980055]

>>9978260
Donald trump made the post office raise rates because jeff bezo owns the washington post and they gave him a bad review. Jeff bezo owns amazon. Now your customs call sounds like a scam. In the usa you would go to the post office to pay any fees.

[Anonymous No.9980056]

>>9980006
>you're not going to be a 40 yr old selling fanart of sailor moon
There are super famous ~respected~ art dudes of that age sitting at cons selling sketches of Batman/Hulk/Superman/other properties they don’t personally own at cons, though....I feel like your prof has a blind spot just because anime was invoked, we all know how a lot of art school/teacher types feel about that.

[Anonymous No.9980058]

>>9980053
This anon brings up a really good point not totally related to getting older as an AA artist but also worth noticing: there’s arguably a ‘boom’ right now in AA because every con and it’s grandma is starting or expanding theirs and a ton of new people are joining. Ultimately the number of artists won’t be sustainable.

The solution would probably be cons getting realistic about how many tables to sell but there’s literally no reason for them to do that vs grabbing bux from overselling tables

[Anonymous No.9980075]

>>9980006
>"20 years down the line, you're not going to be a 40 yr old selling fanart of sailor moon at an anime con
You have to adapt and change. That is true for most careers. No one still coding in fortran like they did 20+ years ago, for example.
Its not like the demand for art will just die in 20 years. One of the few jobs a robot/AI can't take.
As long as you diversify your skills and don't just draw sailor moon fan art for 20 years straight, you can succeed.

[Anonymous No.9980120]

>>9980006
The more people like him out there that have this preconceived notion of what works and what doesn't, the better. It's part of what enables those who pursue paths that deviate from the social norm to succeed.

[Anonymous No.9980191]

So, what other AA products can you make with a Silhouette/other cutter? All I can think of besides the obvious many varieties of sticker is magnets or window decals, which isn't that different. Man, I wish they could somehow be used for charms.

[Anonymous No.9980212]

>>9980006
>a lot of past students he thought had great potential are now working regular day jobs only taking private comissions
you know, i bet they wish they had shiny real art jobs working at blizzard or illustrating the next harry potter book too, but guess what, life isn't fair

[Anonymous No.9980216]

>>9979467
thanks anon. i think i'll do it. and yeah cinema doll voltron was more an vague example

[Anonymous No.9980246]

>>9980006
I dont see why he thinks its a permanent gig. Not all of us are sad people who sit in the same 9-5 job for the rest of our lives. Even in the industry there is high turnover when projects are complete- nothing is stable. Willingness to adapt is part of being a career artist.

[Anonymous No.9980249]

>>9980191
I use mine to cut out the circles for my button machine, as well as cutting the backing for packaging button sets.

[Anonymous No.9980271]

>>9980006
It's more sustainable than selling an oil painting of a basket of fruits once every 3-6 years. What does he want his students to do? Starve? Potential doesn't put food on the table. Keeping up with what the market demands does, and if the market demands Boku no Hero Academia charms, so be it.

[Anonymous No.9980288]

>>9980249
>I use mine to cut out the circles for my button machine
........anon, you just changed my life.

I guess I was so focused on making stickers with mine I never thought of anything else.

[Anonymous No.9980322]

>>9978055
Anyone else find it funny that these threads always start with a jpg that has artifacts in it?

[Anonymous No.9980325]

>>9980006
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.

Sounds like your prof is bitter at their wasted life and burnt potential compared to people actually selling art on the daily with real fans.

[Corky-Lunn !CorkyloMxc No.9980339]

>>9980322
the original high res image I made was lost when my computer died earlier this year, so I'm using an OP image from one of the threads here. I shopped out the text on the banner so I can change it for each new post. I didn't think it mattered enough to recreate the image as long as people can identify it

[Anonymous No.9980350]

>>9980249
Doesn't that take forever? I tried that once and it was an alignment (not sure why it was acting up so badly) and peeling nightmare.

[Anonymous No.9980355]

>>9980191
Not related to AA but I use mine to make cool 3D Christmas cards/tags. But same, I have few uses for it besides making stickers...

[Anonymous No.9980391]

>>9980350
I actually use a cricut I bought second hand so it might be a different process that the silhouette but I probably wasted about 15 sheets at first fiddling with the alignment? Once I got the alignment though I have a template I use each time I print buttons and make sure to plug it into a computer (idk if its just mine, but the alignment will fuck up if I try to use their app or cut from wireless)
I use the least sticky mat as well? Because yeah, the standard mat is terrible to get 24 lb paper off of.
Cutting standard paper is more for saving my hands, but the cricut really comes in handy when I do buttons with the sticky holographic laminate since the adhesive gums up my normal cutter.

[Anonymous No.9980468]

>>9980006
Some of us also quickly realize that we hate drawing for companies on demand and switch roles accordingly. Cons are a place for me to be put on notice about doing finished artwork consistently, and it's absolutely fantastic to hang out with friends at.

I fully admit that I've got my own reservations about fanart, but at the same time there's shit I want to see that's not being done by official outlets so I appreciate everyone else stepping up and hell, I'm ok with filling some of those gaps myself.

Nothing is sustainable now. How many people in their 20s and 30s are actually on track to retire by the mythical age of 65? Nevermind if they're artists or not, the only people I know who are "comfortable" have either been working on their finances since their teenage years, come from wealth or hit it big either with six-figure salaries and good money management or just saved incredibly hard and lean for several years which no one actually teaches.

[Anonymous No.9980474]

Obviously everyone in here has a bias, but there is nothing subjective about fanmerch being legally gray zone (personally I find it a lot more block and white, but thats probably not group consensus on here) He didn't say it yesterday, but I've heard him talk about before how he thinks SELLING fanart (distinction is important) is shitty and very not kosher. I'm sure that also plays into his overall opinion too.
More from yesterday that I remembered:
"Fanart is like icecream. Its fine to indulge in it maybe twice a week, but it shouldn't be your every meal"
"Selling fanmerch is like an advanced moneymaking hobby, not a career"

>>9980040
>keeping up w hot trends
I think others have already pointed out, but thats also something that people working in editorial and particular the lifestyle sector have to keep up with anyway, just comes w/ the territory. Its a necessary skill, albeit one I dont think everyone has.

>>9980047
>>9980044
>Industry art jobs don't have any more security than tabling at cons do
Technically thats true, but in practice I dont think so. Acquiring tables is harder and harder and like others have pointed out, its a bubble waiting to burst.
While working as a freelance illustrator means you need new jobs to keep coming in, you make connections with AD's who will hire you regularly and word of mouth gets you new jobs too. The more work you do, the more your portfolio builds, and the more your name is out there. Dry spells happen to everyone, but its not a huge setback.

>>9980019
>I'm not sure what your professor means by "people who had a lot of potential" because there's plenty of potential and $$$ to be harvested in AA
Its definitely a dig at people mooching off others IPs to make their own living, when they had the potential to make a living creating their own original art. See top of post. But yeah, I dont think his problem is with making original work and selling it at cons but living off of fanart.

[Anonymous No.9980476]

>>9980474
(cont.)

>>9980052
>>9980040
it's not a tested territory so maybe AA is gonna be full of grandmas in a few decades. I'd actually be very excited about that. But I just don't see the young folks getting all that jazzed about picking up their fanart from a bunch of 40-50 year olds.
This was also my immediate thought. I wonder if a push for proxy selling would happen?
Am excited to see what cons will look like down the line in terms of demographic


>>9980212
The people he's referring to are really talented (sorry, but much more than the average AA artist) who he feels settled into a mediocrity by not pursuing a career of making original art. Which like. yeah, I agree to an extent, because why the fuck did you go to an art school that costs 40k per year to just learn how to draw good fanart???????


>>9980044
>>9980325
>jealous
>bitter at their wasted life and burnt potential

LOL, definitely not. He's had a very successful freelancing career doing editorial/lifestyle illo so far, his clients include the new yorker, NYT, GQ, among other big name publications. I'm guessing he took up teaching a few years before his career really picked up, but Im expecting him to quit soon because with the amount of work he's doing I dont know how he fits teaching into his schedule.

Actually, we have very similar aesthetics, we call ourselves style cousins. He's very hip and is the best illo faculty prof in the department who gives out the best professiona,l advice and crit, and I value his opinions. fwiw, I go to a big name art school, not CC or something like that.

[Anonymous No.9980482]

>>9980468
>have either been working on their finances since their teenage years, come from wealth or hit it big either with six-figure salaries and good money management or just saved incredibly hard and lean for several years
>tfw you've done all that except for the 6 figure salary part.
I threw all my savings into the stock market too, which turned out very, very well.

Artist alley really does require very good money management. You don't get a check every week like a normal job you get giant lumps of cash randomly throughout the year. Gotta make sure that lump of cash keeps you through the dry months.
Artist alley isn't for the type of people who see $10 in their bank account and think they have to spend it immediately.

[Anonymous No.9980485]

can the discord email anon look at their email? I want to join but I havent heard anything

[Anonymous No.9980509]

>>9980476
>But I just don't see the young folks getting all that jazzed about picking up their fanart from a bunch of 40-50 year olds.
Been to a comic con AA? The attendees include a lot of not so young folks either, who have no problem buying from other fellow old farts. That’s how i see other types of cons becoming.

[Anonymous No.9980512]

>>9980249
I’m imagining sitting through a Silhouette cutting a circle vs just pressing it out with my Button Boy punch in a second and I’m not sure that’s a great use of time unless someone super hates punches for some reason? Although if it’s one of the sizes a punch isn’t an option and you’d need one of those weirdly expensive types of cutter then i can see the appeal

[Anonymous No.9980524]

>>9980512
I elaborated more on >>9980391 but really man I got already have fucked up hands without cutting out 2000 button circles with a punch before every con idk what else to tell ya

[Anonymous No.9980525]

>>9980524
Oh if you have any kind of hand pain/other issue then that makes perfect sense

[Anonymous No.9980526]

>>9980525
lol ty for ignoring my fucked up english in there too, hoo boy

[Anonymous No.9980530]

>>9980474
>The people he's referring to are really talented (sorry, but much more than the average AA artist) who he feels settled into a mediocrity by not pursuing a career of making original art. Which like. yeah, I agree to an extent, because why the fuck did you go to an art school that costs 40k per year to just learn how to draw good fanart???????
idk anon. i know lots of great artists with no jobs and lots of shit artists with great jobs. ability doesn't necessarily mean you're going to succeed.

>>9980325
sounds silly.

[Anonymous No.9980532]

>>9980476
>because why the fuck did you go to an art school that costs 40k per year to just learn how to draw good fanart???????

Because fanart pays the bills, no one gives two shits about your original stuff. Even if you have an audience, you only have a slim chance of making a living off it and student loans don't wait till you're stable.

[Anonymous No.9980534]

>>9980191
After seeing me cut stickers by hand, my sister got me a Silhouette for Christmas 2016. To this day, I still haven't opened the box.

[Anonymous No.9980536]

>>9980509
Honestly... has this anon or their professor ever been to a comic con? A ton of people in comic con AAs are pushing 40-50 easy. People get job offers by being at fanart these days. I know a handful of people who were offered contracts at Disney, Cartoon Network, and Blizzard because their fanwork drew the notice of their art department heads. One person I personally know was actually scouted AT a con because of their Adventure Time fanart. I've seen artists do covers for Boom and Vertigo because of their fanart portfolios... like... yeah relying on fanart alone is bad but your teacher is also clearly biased in the other direction, OP.

[Anonymous No.9980539]

>>9980509
The thing is, currently in any given AA, the majority of the artists are in their 20s. When they hit their 30s, another whole set of artists in their 20s are going to come into the same market. This is basically what already happened with the seasoned AA artists complaining they can no longer get into cons despite tabling at them for the past ten or fifteen years. Then again at 40, more new artists arrive, then again at 50. The majority of people doing AA are not going to be able to compete with multiple new generations of people who are younger, closer to the newest trends, better at whatever the new hot social media is, and just plain have more energy. Sure, there will be a few standouts, but the majority of people who are doing AA for a living right now are not going to be capable of sustaining it then. AA is just not a sustainable career.
Just saying, shit is going to be different when we're old and a lot of the folks in these threads thinking they're going to spend their whole career flying across the country for AA have not really thought it through.

[Anonymous No.9980543]

>>9980476
> Denying he has some kind of complex
Why's he spending so much time insulting past students instead of offering them work or helping them get those great jobs he knows they have the potential for? Instead he bad mouths them to current students?

You can keep saying he's like successful but he sounds like a jackass. Again. Unless he's offering those jobs, he can shut the fuck up no one cares except the impressionable children he's in charge of.

[Anonymous No.9980546]

>>9980532
making fanart doesn't require a degree.

[Anonymous No.9980562]

>>9980546
nayrt but literally no art does, in this day and age. the vast majority of the actual knowledge is available online in either free tutorials or, at the priciest, paid masterclasses that still cost only a fraction of tuition would.

[Anonymous No.9980564]

>>9980543
He probably doesn't have a "complex", but lots of successful people are still capable of being jerks/wrong/derisive towards other people without having a secret complex or jealousy (not to say that they're right). There'll be assholes in every industry, even among people who are pretty skillful and not actually insecure.

[Anonymous No.9980568]

>>9980534
goddammit anon open the box. it's not that big a learning curve i promise, and the professional look of the stickers (the very regular offset/border you can create around the art looks so much better) is probably going to boost your sales

[Anonymous No.9980573]

>>9980536
>haha, i misread 'AT a con' as 'Adventure Time a con'
>oh wait never mind

[Anonymous No.9980588]

Oh fuck you guys, hilarious update.
Started lurking my profs old tumblr and found a post from 2 years back about his inprnt store which - get this - had cowboy bebop and team rocket fanart prints for sale.
Truly lmao.

>>9980532
Like >>9980562 said, you dont have to go to school for an art degree, your reasons for going are either
1) To get Really good Really fast, or at least at a much faster rate than on your own
2.) to make connections in the professional world
If you want to work within the industry, it can be worth it. To make fanart? Fuck no

>>9980536
I'll admit, I've never been to a comic con, only a few anime cons. I have seen a few older people at cons but to be honest, the art never interests me so i dont bother taking a closer look.

>>9980539
Yuuuup all of this.

>>9980543
>>9980564
We talk about what we're gonna do after school, and he doesn't coddle. I know out of context he probably sounds like a huge jerk, but he's not really, just has a disdain for fanart only artists. But also, truly fucking hilarious that I found proof of him having sold fanart in the past (top post) Dont really know what to say about that, but pls no theory of "its vendetta bc he never sold fanart prints" hes making plenty money elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.9980598]

>>9980539
>Just saying, shit is going to be different when we're old

Ugh don’t remind me
Getting older is the fucking worst
With that said what do people here plan to do when they no longer do cons?
Do most people here have or are planning to have non art realated careers?

[Anonymous No.9980627]

>>9980534
I got a silhouette specifically because I hated cutting stickers by hand and it's been the best investment ever. The learning curve does take time but that was a worthwhile investment too.

Enjoy cutting out 40 stickers while I can cut out 200 in the same amount of time I guess.

[Anonymous No.9980629]

>>9980598
I only do art on the side anyway, my actual career is in healthcare (and I find it deeply meaningful and satisfying, plus it pays hella well). My online store and tabling is mostly just for fun + a little extra spending cash for traveling and stuff.

[Anonymous No.9980644]

>>9980564
That's true, he could just an asshole.

>>9980588
I like how he's already tricked you into thinking "not being a dumbass jerk" is "coddling". Hey when you get out into the real world, having a "disdain" for artists especially students you used to teach and talking shit about them to children you are teaching makes you a jerk not someone cool to look up to lol. Normal successful people who make "plenty money elsewhere" don't have this urge and no one who's also successful likes to be around people like that.

[Anonymous No.9980648]

>>9978656
Sorry for the lack of an update (been busy), fucked up zap anon here for round two.
They ended up asking me to send all of them back so they could replace them, which I found to be a waste of time due to the fact they were fucked and had -no- possible chance of resale, but oh well. I found out shortly after that they just fucked the quantity of my order too (instead of 125 monikas they gave me 50 of every design I ordered) and by that point they just said I didn’t need to send them back at all. They did send replacements that turned out good.

This time, yet another big order ($1700) and almost half my charms have a white boarder on them, and I’ve never seen this happen before ever, and I’ve run about 60 designs through Zap.
Someone in the discord mentioned that it was because I didn’t subtract two pixels from the white area, which makes sense, but not all of the charms had the white border, some of the charms of some of the designs turned out fine, so there’s no way it could’ve been just the file by itself to create the problem. Also I have NEVER had this border issue before. (But I will subtract pixels next time)
Super strangly, I had a reorder of my FAL charms and this time they edited my file without my permission/asking me before hand, and filled in the area of her hair.
I was super pissed because they had printed them the way I wanted the first time (the charm with the keyring) but this order this time they just fill it in without even contacting me first??
Really what was going through their minds...?
Another charm also got altered, but all of the rest (around 8 other designs) had the holes in the hair like I asked/created on the file.
(Again, ???)

I even went back to my email to see if I accidentally sent them the file and (somehow) accidentally filled it in, but nope they really just edited the file without telling me.

[Anonymous No.9980660]

>>9980648
Jesus, thank you for this update. I know who I'm never using.

[Anonymous No.9980703]

>>9980648
I’m sorry you had another bad experience anon but I’m glad to see you update us about it!
Sucks because I wanted to test out making charms on ZAP but I think I’ll just suck it up and learn how to get them done on alibaba.

[Anonymous No.9980719]

>>9980598
I'm working on my own IP. Hoping to eventually get to a point where I can just sit back and draw and let royalties roll in. Pusheen is goals.

[Anonymous No.9980732]

>>9980629
Nice to know someone else doing this. I feel kinda weird sometimes because the majority of my AA friends do art as a career.

[Anonymous No.9980736]

>>9980703
>alibaba
With Vograce’s factory apparently selling people’s designs, nowhere is safe anymore;;

[Anonymous No.9980742]

>>9980736
>With Vograce’s factory apparently selling people’s designs
deets?

[Anonymous No.9980749]

>>9980736
>With Vograce’s factory apparently selling people’s designs

is that true?

[Anonymous No.9980751]

>>9980742
>>9980749
https://twitter.com/misu_025/status/1033714633142456320

[Anonymous No.9980827]

Bit of a long shot, anyone know of East Coast cons in September and October it’s still possible to sign up for? It would probably just be local/one-day little ones, I guess.

[Anonymous No.9980855]

>>9980751
I'm blind. Where does it say Vograce is doing this? Not that I don't believe it but I just want proof.

[Anonymous No.9980866]

>>9980855
not Vograce themselves (they said they didn’t, and believing that makes sense since they would want to retain trust) but some worker at the factory they manufacture via.

[Anonymous No.9980928]

>>9980866
Welp that just shows that they use an unreliable factory and that is a bummer indeed. Even if Vograce wasn't the one who did this, at the end of the day, they're still responsible for this artist's work being stolen.

[Anonymous No.9980937]

>>9980928
it’s China, i bet almost every factory has a few people ready to make off with material for bootlegs. i’n surprised this doesn’t happen more/sooner t b h

[Anonymous No.9981003]

>>9980598
I’m hoarding money so that when aa is no longer profitable/impossible to get into consistently I can go back to school for a veterinarian degree and hopefully open my own clinic someday.

[Anonymous No.9981178]

>>9980751
mfw the series I make merch for are so niche/unpopular that I never have to worry about my designs being stolen because nobody gives a fuck.

Kinda feels bad too.

[Anonymous No.9981216]

>>9980827
Expcon

[Anonymous No.9981279]

I wouldn't be surprised if that person's designs actually were stolen by someone working at vograce, but it's also pretty easy to just pull images off the internet. I've seen bootleg keychains at cons that are pixelated as hell. I've had some of my dakimakura designs taken from small preview images from my site and printed by some Russian shop. They're super blurry when they're printed. Hell, they even ran a live trace over some other peoples' art to make knockoffs.

[Anonymous No.9981329]

>>9981279
This so much. If they want to steal it they will even if they don't have the hi-res files.
Now, if way more designs sent to Vograce are popping out there... well, that's concerning.
>tfw I sent OCs nobody gives a fuck about
D-did acorn press ever came back?

[Anonymous No.9981380]

>>9980588
it's not like people start at art school thinking 'oh yeah, this is going to take my fanart game to the max'. most people just kind of fall into it.

[Anonymous No.9981473]

>>9981329
Actually yeah. They seem to be functioning as intended right now.

[Anonymous No.9981741]

Those at FanEx should watch out. Theft Trio at it again.

[Anonymous No.9981769]

>>9980751
can someone translate this? one of the replies by the artist specifically mentions coco..

[Anonymous No.9981782]

>>9980751
but that artist never said who their manufacturer was.... it could be another Alibaba Chinese charm manu desu, and not vograce... plus the artist never answered any questions about which manufacturer that leaked their design.

[Anonymous No.9981823]

>>9981769
"Yeah asdfkl sabi ni coco di naman daw sila nagbebenta nung designs so baka sa factory na talaga gdii"

^This is the reply you're referring to I believe?
It says "Yeah asdfkl Coco said that it wasn't them that sold the designs so it was probably the factory seriously God damnit"

[Anonymous No.9981825]

>>9981782
I kind of doubt that. It'd be quite a coincidence if there was another Chinese acrylic charm maker who's primary contact name is Coco

[Anonymous No.9981827]

>>9981329
Anon from the past two posts sorry they're so split. I agree tho, Misu tends to post a lot of charm previews and they are pretty good quality so it is just possible that they were ripped from her twitter.

[Anonymous No.9982649]

Man dragoncon is doing fire code per building, and not per room. So everyone is piled in the levels of dealers, with a small group at the artist alley. I talked to staff and apparently they have 'too many entrances' to enforce per room. So if you want to art booth for dragoncon just buy a vendor table and ignore artist alley.

[Anonymous No.9982689]

>>9982649
>buy a vendor table and ignore artist alley.
Were there other problems?

[Anonymous No.9982691]

Why do people with less than 10k youtube subscribers think they are gods?

[Anonymous No.9982698]

>>9982691
You think that's bad? One of my siblings is a wannabe Lil Peep and he and his gang of idiot friends are always begging me to give them the clothing and jewelry I make for their music videos. For free and to keep, of course. I think the most views one video has got was almost 1000.

[Anonymous No.9982815]

portfolio collecting anon: are we only counting official websites, or are tumblrs, facebooks, online shops etc going to be collected too?

[Anonymous No.9983132]

>>9982815
i’m not them but the original idea was put forth bc people wanted to be able to buy from and follow the art of other seagulls, not just look at their portfolios, so that makes sense

[Anonymous No.9983193]

>>9983132
What? No it wasn’t. Portfolio anon is putting it together so people have a reference for what juried cons expect. I think you’re thinking of the seagull art doc which is a completely different thing.

[Anonymous No.9983220]

>>9982689
Nope. Everything else is golden! Staff are all positive and friendly in the interactions I had. And you have a freight elivator for setup use, and loading bay. They room clear fast at the end of day, I found that odd compared to other cons. At the 30 min mark at normal day close they are hustling to clear artists and vendors out.

[Anonymous No.9983727]

I'm so tired of these kickstarters for pins of fanart. How is stuff like this not against kickstarter's copyright policy.

[Anonymous No.9983730]

>>9983727
They only asked for 700 for all those designs?

[Anonymous No.9983735]

>>9983727
"""inspired by"""
literally copied.

[Anonymous No.9984065]

>>9983727
It’s pretty bold of people to run those. Given KS lets fan films and zines fundraise, it’s not unusual they allow this too, I’m surprised it’s becoming so common.

>>9983730
Betting several are stretch goals

[Anonymous No.9984066]

>>9983727
It’s pretty bold of people to run those. Given KS lets fan films and zines fundraise, it’s not unusual they allow this too, but I’m still surprised it’s becoming common for people to boldly KS fannish enamel pins. The higher value and more similar to official-quality merch fan products are, the more likely to get C&D’d.

>>9983730
Betting several are stretch goals

[Anonymous No.9984124]

>>9983735
>literally copied
Well to be fair they were drawn from scratch and are no more “literally copied” than any fanart any of us make/sell.

[Anonymous No.9984151]

>>9984124
I disagree. pic related (random image I found searching fanart) i'd actually say is "inspired by" and not a direct copy. It is obviously inspired by Mario, but takes a huge amount of creative freedom and incorporates more than just a single character design.
Those pins practically (probably literally) just tracings of official art with ditto's face.

Its fanart when you add something new of your own creation. Its just copying/tracing when dont.

[Anonymous No.9984224]

>>9984151
>just tracings of official art
Just because the artist's style is simple/non-realistic doesn't mean they traced official art.

[Anonymous No.9984243]

>>9984151
What? None of those are tracings of official art at all.

[Anonymous No.9984248]

>>9984151
...you’re kidding, right? Even ignoring that it looks dissimilar to how most of those characters are (usually) proportioned in their own shows, it beliefs belief that they somehow found perfectly uniform-looking same-pose/proportion art from three different franchises to trace into such a matched set.

Also like, the mario you posted is cool and everything but if that’s the degree of “different in style from the source material” you require to consider something not literally copied, now i’m wondering if most fanart sold in AA (including by seagulls) would pass your standards for not “literally copied”.

[Anonymous No.9984334]

>>9984066
i was really surprised by that high profile 'shine like a diamond' enamel SU pin thing. on tumblror instagram explore i couldn't escape it. the bubble has to burst sometime

[Anonymous No.9984353]

>>9983727
Rip adventure time

[Anonymous No.9984529]

>>9984248
>now i’m wondering if most fanart sold in AA (including by seagulls) would pass your standards for not “literally copied”.
probably not. If I were an art director, I'd absolutely not allow fan art in the AA that isn't heavily stylized in a form different to the official style.
You shouldn't profit off other people's work.

[Anonymous No.9984578]

>>9982691
My favorite is people with less followers than me (I only have 3k) asking me to sponsor them -_-

[Anonymous No.9984601]

>>9984529
But >>9983727 is highly stylized? I worry that you don't know what the word "stylized" means.

I'm uncomfortable with pinsets on Kickstarter for entirely different reasons (fanart does best as an industry when it intentionally remains in the shadows of the original properties), but you're not following your own definition of a transformative work.

[Anonymous No.9984609]

>>9978102
I'm in the same boat as you. One thing that might ease the workload is finding out if your state has a yearly filing option instead of quarterly. If you make under a certain amount, you shouldn't have a problem.

[Anonymous No.9984613]

>>9983727
It's not tracing but pretty shitty to put ditto in a kickstarter title

[Anonymous No.9984625]

>>9984601
I also feel this. While there are a lot of pins out there that are incredible cute and I would love to have, the whole concept kind of...makes me uncomfortable, somehow. The same goes for plushes.

I guess it's because production of these kinds of merch is on a vastly different level from the original idea of "hobby fanart" that I'm used to (probably because of the funding they require) but alas, times are a changing.

[Anonymous No.9984627]

>>9984529
Wow then you’d probably take issue with a lot of us lol. Anyway given that we do all the work for that art ourselves, it’s not profiting off “other people’s work”, just their IPs, which usually are already netting the holders millions (or billions, if it’s Marvel stuff etc) and consist of things those holders would never have offered to begin with, like ships, crossovers, or just “drawn by that particular artist”. By filling a need fans have which the actual franchise wasn’t going to offer as a product, it’s basically offering free promotion to that IP. This is why there’s such widespread acceptance of doujinshi by Japanese creators, to the point where many mangaka will have actually done doujinshi themselves. And lots of sold fanart is ostensibly legally protected as transformative work. (footnote enamel pins get dangerously close to the kind of products that might make IP originators feel like their own profits are eaten into which is why i’m with the ‘don’t splash them all over kickstarter’ camp)

Moreover, most people will stop if the creator has actually asked people not to sell fanwork.

[Anonymous No.9984657]

>>9984627
>profiting off of franchises is not profiting off of other people's work
lol.

>selling a 20 page fancomic for $5 is comparable to shitting out chibi charms and selling them for $12 a pop
also lol.
westerners are so blase about making bank off of fanart and they will jump through hoops to justify it. just accept you're a hack taking advantage of the system and move on.

[Anonymous No.9984667]

>>9984627
>Moreover, most people will stop if the creator has actually asked people not to sell fanwork.

Or ya know they just bully the creator into saying fanart is okay. I'm a fanartist but let's not act like we're super innocent angels who want to help our favorite series ~grow~ through our ~free advertising~. You want to make a living off of this shit at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that. Don't act like you're above it, though.

[Anonymous No.9984679]

>>9984667
Ok? I did say “most”, people like that exist but aren’t common and it’s not like most AA sellers are complete assholes.
I personally wouldn’t sell from a series that the creator has asked to stop.

[Anonymous No.9984684]

>>9984529
>>9984657
damn, hope you two are as open in person about your feelings so that people in alley with you who are selling fanart know you’re looking down on them. you’re probably two-faced and making nice with people, though. who’s taking advantage here?

[Anonymous No.9984686]

>>9984657
About pricey acrylic charms and enamel pins and other high-value, high-margin goods I'm honestly on your side here in that it's the sort of thing that can noticeably impact the creators' profits and don't know why you're disagreeing with me.
The dude I was replying to would probably think low-price doujins are also "literally copying" unless they're in a painterly style.

[Anonymous No.9984698]

>>9984667
>let's not act like we're super innocent angels who want to help our favorite series ~grow~ through our ~free advertising~
i don't think anon was saying that's the whole reason *fanartists* sell fanart, otherwise we would give it away for free, but that its a reason some *creators* don't mind it. likewise they don't mind bc it's things they wouldn't ever sell or make money off of anyway like Stucky Thorki other slash etc but by getting products with that the fans stay invested and give money to the actual thing when they see movies or buy official merch.

at least that's how i see it.....they definitely know fanartists are out there and there must be some reasons they dont crack down.

[Anonymous No.9984714]

>>9984684
i never said anything about disliking people selling fanart. hypocrisy and self-justification is what i dislike. you can sell fanart without deluding yourself into thinking it's 100% okay and you're morally infallible. or you can just accept that it's convenient that you can get away with doing it, because surviving on original art would be much more difficult. we're all human and trying to make a living.

you'll see an artist who exclusively draws and sells fanart do so without batting an eye and then later see that same artist lose their shit over their fanart being so much as reposted. it's silly.

[Anonymous No.9984721]

>>9984714
>you'll see an artist who exclusively draws and sells fanart do so without batting an eye and then later see that same artist lose their shit over their fanart being so much as reposted.

Yikes that's a bad take I hope i'm not accidentally friends with you.

[Anonymous No.9984724]

>>9984698
>they definitely know fanartists are out there and there must be some reasons they dont crack down.
Except they do crack down. How many times have you or someone you known had to get around Etsy taking your fan merchandise down because a copyright claim was made against it? That's cracking down and people still try to get around it.

[Anonymous No.9984727]

>>9984627
>it’s not profiting off “other people’s work”, just their IPs
Do I really need to explain how nonsensical that statement is? The IP didn't come from thin air.

>which usually are already netting the holders millions

In revenue, maybe, not profit. And thats only for the giant IP holders.

> it’s basically offering free promotion to that IP

*screams*

> consist of things those holders would never have offered to begin with

Nothing wrong with making fanart, the problem is selling it. Also, *there is a reason they would never create that content*, they have a image to protect. Just look at pepe the frog and what /pol/ turned it into. There is very good reason why the creator of pepe the frog (and any IP holder) doesn't want people to sell fanart.

>>9984684
I have several artist alley friends. None of them (including myself) sell fanart besides one or two pieces that are VERY heavily stylized. I normally avoid those artists who have those walls of generic fanart.

[Anonymous No.9984731]

>oh it's this argument again

[Anonymous No.9984736]

>>9984724
but not always, there was literally someone posting (either here or another thread) saying they work for a company that makes a game and was enjoyuing getting art for it in Artist Alley.....

[Anonymous No.9984743]

How did “that KS isn’t literally tracing” turn into this debate jesus.

Yes, we’re all on shaky ground legally. No, it isn’t tracing or otherwise inherently creatively bankrupt to draw fanart that’s less of s stylistic leap than the Mario painting. Nobody’s changing any minds about the ethics of selling fan art with their posts today and this is a pointless debate.

[Anonymous No.9984748]

>>9984736
>enjoyuing
You good there, anon? I kid. I know there are many creators who do like it and just as many who don't. The problem is that many fan artists aren't respecting the creators who don't. I know in past threads people have asked how to avoid Etsy takedowns and people have actually given tips. That's not cool. What we're doing is in a legal grey area and we as a community shouldn't let it get to black by finding loopholes to sell fanart of series we shouldn't be selling fanart of, whether it's a tiny webcomic or some big anime Funimation owns.

[Anonymous No.9984751]

>>9984731
I swear its the same anon every time coming in like "Hey guys! Won't say who I am but wanted to remind you all that I'm morally superior to 90% of the people in this industry! kthxbye"

[Anonymous No.9984753]

>>9984748
Interestingly, Funi has actually said they’re cool with Artist Alley stuff (just not Vendors/large scale, seems like common sense)

[Anonymous No.9984770]

>>9984751
Can't tell if you're talking about the people saying selling fanart is not the best idea or the people saying selling fanart is 100% okay and good for everyone.

The most basic truth is that it's all a gray area both legally and morally and changes depending on the IP and circumstances.

[Anonymous No.9984886]

Whats the best site to use these days for shops,
Tictail, Storeenvy, or etsy? I've heard alot of people shit on tictail lately

[Anonymous No.9984896]

>>9984886
I see more people using bigcartel lately

[Anonymous No.9984897]

>>9984721
credit is nice and in an ideal world things wouldn't get reposted without the artists permission, but they do. it's just silly when said person is actively thieving ip for actual monetary profit yet throws a fit over some twelve year old using their fanart for tumblr rp.

[Anonymous No.9984904]

>>9984886
If you have 0 online following, then etsy. Otherwise, check out the shops of all those sites and just decide based on UI and customization. Choose the platform that most closely resembles how you think your shop should look like.

[Anonymous No.9984910]

>>9984770
I’m guessing they mean the person being high and mighty about only doing original art, because they or someone else like that occasionally starts discussions shitting on fanartists.

[Anonymous No.9984911]

>>9984897
Nayrt but the difference is that nobody drawing fanart is implicitly claiming ownership of that IP, while people who repost uncredited art (or worse, sell it) are implicitly claiming it’s their art.

[Anonymous No.9984956]

>>9984910
In the last thread someone commented on how it was harder to sell original art and a fanartist jumped down their throat about how their art must be bad. Read >>9984627 and don't pretend fanartists don't act just as high and mighty.

[Anonymous No.9984964]

>>9984911
This. I don't understand why people don't get this and argue that it's okay to repost art or that it's okay to leak patreon pictures because the art itself isn't an original IP.

[Anonymous No.9984968]

>>9984956
>how it was harder to sell original art and a fanartist jumped down their throat
Isn't is the opposite? It usually original artists who say that those who can't sell original art (and have to 'resort' to fanart) have bad art.

[Anonymous No.9984990]

>>9984968
No one's saying that. Saying someone is dependent on existing content in order to be successful doesn't imply they're a bad artist. Saying those pins above just look like a trace isn't saying they're bad art, it's saying it's an invitation for a lawsuit.

[Anonymous No.9985027]

>>9984990
They literally don’t look like a trace though. God that one idiot >>9984151
derailed this entire thread because they apparently can’t tell cartoony styles apart.

[Anonymous No.9985096]

Actual artist alley question. What do you guys use for sidepoles? I've been using a photography stand for a couple years now and desu I feel retarded because I still haven't figured out how to macgyver some sensible side poles for my stand. I ziptied some bamboo poles my last couple of times but it wasn't that great.

[Anonymous No.9985098]

>>9985096
Idk how actually** autocorrected to desu but I guess it works

[Anonymous No.9985109]

>>9985096
Actually a lot of people do just use photography stands lol. It's a perfectly good option.
Another option is just to assemble the bottom of the pipes in such a shape that they hold weight.

[Anonymous No.9985120]

>>9985098
the autocorrect is for t b h which is what you must have used the first time

[Anonymous No.9985155]

Another theft in artist alley this week at fanexpo oof

switch to fanny packs everyone if you haven't already

[Corky-Lunn !CorkyloMxc No.9985239]

>>9985155
was it just the one confirmed theft? I saw a friend retweet someone claiming they were robbed. I'm amazed no one has caught them in the act yet since we have a pretty good description of how they look and how they rob people.

[Anonymous No.9985340]

>>9985155
Get yourself one of these. Just look up "anti theft bag" on AliExpress and there are a bunch of options. Will you look ridiculous? Yes. Will your shit be stolen? No!

[Anonymous No.9985362]

>>9985340
honestly doesn’t this just make it a little more difficult to open? My friend has this bag and there’s just a zipper on the side like other bags I don’t get it

[Anonymous No.9985370]

>>9985362
The thing is that it's on you and on your chest at that. No one is going to reach over your table, unzip your boob bag, and take your money. They're going for the idiot with a $10 cash box from Walmart on the floor that uses the same key the other $10 cash boxes from Walmart use.

[Anonymous No.9985376]

>>9985370
>They're going for the idiot with a $10 cash box from Walmart on the floor that uses the same key the other $10 cash boxes from Walmart use.
I think i'd notice is someone walks behind my table...

[Anonymous No.9985394]

>>9985376
they can reach under the tablecloth dumbass

[Anonymous No.9985396]

>>9985370
>>9985340
...this thing looks so bulky and annoying. Isn't it just easier and more comfortable to wear a fanny pack in the front or get one of those money aprons??

[Anonymous No.9985397]

>>9985376
They're using distraction tactics. A two or three man team where half of them take your attention (knock something over, etc) and the other one ducks for the cash.

I'm using an actual nice digital lock cash box that's not easy to crack open, and even I'm thinking of switching to a fanny pack.

[Anonymous No.9985411]

>>9985394
I keep my money box on the table

>>9985397
They'd still have to physically go behind my table, and idk about the cons you guys go to, but the ones I go to, its normally very cramped back there, you aren't quietly and quickly getting back there.

[Anonymous No.9985421]

>>9985411
Don’t doubt the boldness of these people. They once cut a fanny pack off a girl and when they discovered she also zip ties it to herself, they bolted.

[Anonymous No.9985450]

>>9985421
Jesus where was this? I just use a tiny bank bag and keep it shoved under the table amongst my stock so it's hard to see

[Anonymous No.9985470]

Get tile. Slap one on everything you give a shit about. Make sure you don't lose your phone.

[Anonymous No.9985495]

>>9985340
Lol this looks like an alien pod

[Anonymous No.9985624]

>>9985450
It's a part of that string of canadian east coast con thefts. The strategy might spread into the USA or already has seeing that theft at otakon using the same tactics.

[Anonymous No.9985634]

>>9985421
How the fuck did they do that if they reach under tables for all this, do they have three foot long hyper-articulated arms? Or did they sneak back

[Anonymous No.9985650]

>>9985634
I'm assuming they target aisle tables or tables with wide aisles, so it's easy to duck in and out quickly, though I don't believe there is enough information about the people stolen from to confirm that. Since they haven't been caught yet and the guy doing the grabbing doesn't even have a description yet I'm assuming they're good at getting away quickly once it's done.
>>9985450
Keep in mind that people could be watching you and see exactly where you store it, I don't get the impression they are choosing targets on a whim. We know they pick artists who are on their own, it would make sense that they scope them out a bit beforehand to make sure they're not just waiting for a friend to come back from the bathroom to catch them mid-theft. Would be smart to start keeping it on your body just in case.

[Anonymous No.9985652]

>>9985650
Man, I have a fanny pack but it's really inconvenient to look through for bills since it's a little small, so I tend to just leave my money pouch laying on the table as I duck underneath to fetch charms. Luckily I've had a partner all the times I've tabled and nothing has happened in terms of theft, but I gotta start taking this stuff more seriously. People are probably feeling opportunistic as they get to know how much artists can actually make from AAs.

[Anonymous No.9985676]

>>9985652
get a bigger fanny pack

[Anonymous No.9985682]

i've been thinking about one of those big leather type aprons i've seen fairground staff wear. they any good?

[Anonymous No.9985708]

Well fuck. I almost always wear lolita at my table, a fanny pack would be awkward as all hell
Time to make frilly as hell money aprons I guess?

[Anonymous No.9985724]

>>9985652
All it takes is your partner to be helping customer and someone asking you to help with something on the other side of the table or knocking over something. It takes literally SECONDS to just snatch your money. Please for your sake just get a better pack and don't be another number.

[Anonymous No.9985808]

>>9985724
>It takes literally SECONDS to just snatch your money
I can't even get behind my table and get money out in seconds. How does a thief do it?

[Anonymous No.9985809]

>>9985808
I mean, for professional thieves, it’s their job and they probably practiced.

[Anonymous No.9985819]

>>9985809
just sounds like fear mongering to me.

[Anonymous No.9985856]

>>9985819
Lol shit did the thieves find this thread or what

These fuckers have stolen thousands of dollars at multiple conventions and the problem is only escalating. It's not fear mongering, it's telling artists to not be fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.9985862]

>>9985856
>These fuckers have stolen thousands of dollars at multiple conventions
Not in the way described. Its actually incredible rare and normally only happens when someone does something stupid, like leaving the table without anyone watching over it or letting complete strangers behind the table.
Like I said before, you can't even sneak behind a table most of the time, its way too cluttered and cramped for even 1 or 2 artists to walk around behind the table.

[Anonymous No.9985865]

>>9985819
>>9985862
I mean, if you wanna advocate for people taking less precautions, that's on you bruh

[Anonymous No.9985876]

>>9985862
You obviously haven't been keeping up with the news and are really sheltered (or just have never been to areas where stealing is prevalent, I guess). Thieves are very good at what they do and it only takes a few seconds of carelessness to lose your weekend's earnings. It's better to be careful than sorry.

To spoonfeed, the thieves have been scoping out and watching tables from afar (while pretending to be on their phones) before acting. Basically watch your make some transactions, figure out where you put your money, etc. They work in teams of three and 1-2 usually dress somewhat 'geeky' to blend in. Easy targets are people who are tabling alone and/or people who are at the edge of the row.

Some of the past tricks they've used is that one of them asks for your picture/picture of your table while the other one sneaks behind and grabs your money. Sometimes they'll engage you in conversation/ask you questions about your art to distract you.

Otakuthon managed to catch them, but they were violent and broke away/ran before the cops arrived.

[Anonymous No.9985890]

>>9985865
you might as well advocate artists wear body armor too while you are at it.

[Anonymous No.9985899]

>>9985876
>while the other one sneaks behind and grabs your money.
For the 3rd time, no one is just sneaking behind an artist alley table. Its not physically possible to do quietly unless you have a VERY minimalist table/setup with absolutely nothing behind your table, besides the money box. Your made up scenerio is unrealistic.
I even had someone steal from me. It was my first con and I was running the table with a friend. I left for an hour, and in that hour, my friend let strangers behind the table and they stole money.
Thats how people steal money from AA tables, they pray on the absolute stupidest people. They aren't stealing from the vigilant people.

[Anonymous No.9985918]

>>9985899
the more you argue back on this the more you seem like the guy hoping for easy targets

[Anonymous No.9985929]

>>9985918
Yeah I'm also not sure why anon is so adamant about artists NOT taking a few simple extra steps to protect themselves. This isn't us suggesting you get a fortified defense system for your table or bodyguards or anything like that. It's just "hey keep your money on you, not next to you" because there are thieves.

[Anonymous No.9985943]

>>9985876
omg that bit about them getting violent and running away...damn.

I honesty wouldn't be surprised if they expanded their team/got different people. Last I heard there were 3 of them and people were sharing descriptions of their appearances, but there might be others.

This makes me a little nervous about tabling alone haha. Time to ziptie my fanny pack to myself and carry my grid hammer lmao

[Anonymous No.9985946]

>>9985929
They're also pretty adamant about it being impossible for someone to steal your money if you're at the table... which is not true at all lol. If people have their wallets pickpocketed when it's right against their leg, then artists sure as hell are also prey. I guess they're the type to believe it only when it actually happens to them, unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.9985947]

>>9985899
Anon... if you're a corner table you literally have the back of your table easily accessible. The thieves that have been hitting AAs recently have specifically been targeting corner tables because they're easy to access without artists noticing you trying to get back there. No one is saying that they're wading through an entire row to climb behind a middle table and rummage through an artist's entire display in a matter of seconds.

I personally know someone who had their entire con earnings stolen on the last day of the con because they were at a corner table and kept their money behind their display on the table. When it gets crowded it's really easy for someone to just reach behind, snag the money pouch, and keep walking without seeming suspicious.

[Anonymous No.9985949]

>>9985943
>omg that bit about them getting violent and running away...damn.
Yeah, don't try to confront them. Please protect your hands, guys, they are the life blood of your craft after all. If you see someone matching the description, best to alert security (I think most cons are aware of these thieves now).

[Anonymous No.9985962]

>>9985929
>I'm also not sure why anon is so adamant about artists NOT taking a few simple extra steps to protect themselves.

Because its fear mongering and exaggerated.

>This isn't us suggesting you get a fortified defense system for your table or bodyguards

WHAT?? why not anon?? why are you suggesting that people shouldn't protect themselves????????????

[Anonymous No.9985964]

I think I'll tie a cable from my cash box to a table leg from now on

[Anonymous No.9985977]

>>9985962
How is it exaggerated? Please, explain. Multiple people have pointed out that the thieves specifically target artists tabling alone at corner tables for ease of access and work in groups to distract.

[Anonymous No.9985996]

Is it usually a struggle to work with vograce? I'm having my first acrylic stand made, it's a 3 part stand with 2 characters, a background, and a base. Every time coco replies to me it's like she forgets I'm not getting charms, she keeps asking where the holes go every few emails and the first time I sent her my PSD (everything is sized and positioned exactly how I need it made) she randomly rearranged the layers and sent it back asking f it was ok. There's a foil layer in there, and she moved it to the back of the background for some reason so it wouldn't even be visible? I thought last night I'd finally got across what I wanted but today she asked me again where the holes will go for the straps.

[Anonymous No.9985997]

Why is anon arguing as if other people are posting hypothetical theft scenarios for the sake of fear mongering? The thieves being described are infamous now in eastern Canada cons with them being first noticed at Anime North for stealing thousands from visiting artists. They even hit mid sized cons and most recently Fan Expo Toronto and have even been known to target smaller dealers hall vendors (though they mostly hit artist alley).

Even if it IS fear mongering as you say, you gotta admit that artists are a bit careless with their money and there’s nothing wrong with being extra cautious. No one’s saying to go bring a 50 pound safe with them to a con but to maybe not leave potentially thousands of dollars unattended under a table??

[Anonymous No.9986007]

>>9985890
Damn anon why aren't you so hellbent on proving theft doesn't happen? You must have a good life lol

[Anonymous No.9986036]

>>9985996
Unfortunately this isn't exactly uncommon. She might also be swamped with work (I feel like a LOT of people choose to go through Coco) so I wouldn't be surprised if she just didn't remember. Working with Vograce requires a lot of patience esp bc their English isn't the most fluent and they tend to respond to some questions only to not answer others, which is a pain in the ass when you have a time difference, but just make sure you are VERY clear, organize your files logically, and describe what you want in the simplest language possible, and if you can make some visual diagrams of what you want--maybe that will help.

[Anonymous No.9986082]

>>9986036
Yeah, I figured she's probably swamped... it's just annoying since she's asking me things she's already confirmed with me, and the very first thing I did was send her a detailed diagram of what I wanted to make sure it could be done. I'm awake in basically the same timezone but even when I reply right away it often takes 24+ hours for me to get a response... at least I'm in no rush but dang is this frustrating.

[Anonymous No.9986223]

>>9986007
I never said theft never happens. I even told you people stole from me before......

[Anonymous No.9986224]

>>9985997
There's absolutely nothing wrong with providing safety tips here, esp for new people that may not know how to run a booth while keeping things safe. I prefer a belt, then I xfer it to a non conspicuous pack that is on my persons at all time during close.

Someone said something to me once: "Locks only keep the innocent out". So if someone is poor and something is easy to grab that they need, it can bend morals and they would take it. It's easy at a con for someone to be tempted, so it's much better to make it hard.

[Anonymous No.9986356]

>>9986223
You're fighting awful hard against really simple advice from people who've been stolen from recently.

Victims: Hey just put your money on your person, this drops your chance of being a target by a lot!

You: You guys are a fear mongering idiots i'll do what i want

Like.. okay. I hope at least everyone else takes this simple advice. It was nice to walk around CRX and see almost everyone using body pouches now.

[Anonymous No.9986369]

welp.

[Anonymous No.9986379]

>>9986369
Part of me wants to start my own charm production company since I have actually been considering getting a machine for my own use, but man I do not want to deal with any legal liabilities.

[Anonymous No.9986400]

>>9986369
Does this bitch know people can literally just take chibis and modify them to sell

Why she gotta blame Vograce, feels kind of racist to imply ALL Chinese businesses are scammy lol

[Anonymous No.9986408]

>>9986400
>Why she gotta blame Vograce, feels kind of racist to imply ALL Chinese businesses are scammy lol

She isn't. She's only blaming Vograce.

[Anonymous No.9986425]

>>9986369
I wonder if Vograce will do anything about the person who is leaking designs out

[Anonymous No.9986427]

>>9986369
So that's the second instance of Vograce's factory selling charm designs in the same month?

I hope Vograce stops outsourcing to that particular factory, but I'm personally taking this as a sign that it's worth it to sink the time/cost into finding a new supplier.

[Anonymous No.9986432]

>>9986427
>I'm personally taking this as a sign that it's worth it to sink the time/cost into finding a new supplier.

Same honestly, I really want to get charms made but I don't want to be worried about my design being stolen the entire time.

[Anonymous No.9986451]

>>9986379
Do you have any info on how much a machine costs etc?

[Anonymous No.9986454]

>>9986224
There's a difference between opportunistic stealing and people who deliberately go to places only to steal.

[Anonymous No.9986457]

>>9986379
Ah yes, another Acorn Press.

Jokes aside though, I would like to see more charms manufacturers pop up. The machines are a big investment though so I can see why people don't go for it.

[Anonymous No.9986504]

>>9986451
Not 100%, but I have about 50K put aside for this. To clarify, I have my own webcomic that I have been wanting to make official merchandise of (not just prints and printed volumes) for some time. This making charms for others would sort of be a side gig.

>>9986457
See, that's another thing I worry about. I'd probably have to be very selective about who I'd work with.

[Anonymous No.9986512]

>>9986369
I wonder if this is the genuine vograce they worked with? Or one of those other manufacturers that use "vograce" in their listings, but aren't the actual vograce company..

[Anonymous No.9986527]

>>9986504
I tried to warn vograce that with their low prices they would have to limit the amount of orders they should take in at one time and well.. you can see why i said that. There's a reason why ink it labs cost what they cost.

If you want to undercut inkit for pricing by a significant amount I would say yes you need to be choosy about who you work with. Keep your clientele base small unless you want to fall into the same holes as acorn.

[Anonymous No.9986531]

>>9986504
I tried to warn acron that with their low prices they would have to limit the amount of orders they should take in at one time and well.. you can see why i said that. There's a reason why ink it labs cost what they cost.

If you want to undercut inkit for pricing by a significant amount I would say yes you need to be choosy about who you work with. Keep your clientele base small or your prices high (relatively speaking) unless you want to fall into the same holes as acorn.

[Anonymous No.9986552]

>>9986512
Good point. On the other hand, I don't think the fake Vograces would go as far as imitating the actual agents of Vograce (and in the tweet of the other artist, she mentioned Coco).

[Anonymous No.9986554]

>>9986512
The first instance, at least is 99% certainly Vograce since the artist mentioned Coco, unless the other company went as far as impersonating the agents.

>>9986425
>>9986427
Considering the volume of orders they get, I don't know if 1-2 known instances will be enough to take action especially with all the work they put into getting the equipment/quality they have now (I say "quality" loosely...lol). Though I do hope they know how much artists care about these things and will very quickly spread the word + halt business with them.

I've been 95% set on a new supplier myself (personally I've never had issues with Vograce, but now that they're so mainstream I have doubts about future orders) but it's so hard to tell who will be good. There are companies whose pictures look great and whose "buyer ratings & reviews" will be absolutely glowing, but elsewhere people will mention that they're a literal nightmare to work with; I guess it all comes with the Alibaba territory though.

[Anonymous No.9986594]

>>9986554
>I've never had issues with Vograce, but now that they're so mainstream I have doubts about future orders

Why is that? Is it because with the more orders they get the more likely it is for a drop in quality?
If that's the case, I now fully understand why I've heard artists keep their suppliers to themselves in order to not "overwhelm" their supplier.

[Anonymous No.9986620]

>>9986594
Exactly. I say this since it's been some time since I did AA (almost a year), but once I return to the fray in little while I don't want to be ~surprised~ by problems with Vograce or anything.

We had a discussion about sharing sources a few(?) boards ago--artists aren't keeping sources to themselves out of pure selfishness, it's because the negative effect of an overwhelming customer base is actually observable and many of us have seen it. And I won't say Vograce has been top quality from the start, but I don't think seeing all my friends start having problems with their orders as Vograce becomes more popular is a coincidence. I don't want to derail into a repeat of the same discussion, but this is why a good handful of artists get annoyed when people are willy nilly throwing out sources and trying to guilt trip everyone else who is reluctant to do so.

[Anonymous No.9986655]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the risk of (fanart) charm designs being stolen....? Maybe it's because i'm not American,but the chances of someone who would buy the bootleg version off aliexspress belonging to the customer base who buys off me at cons is very slim (since I don't have an online store).

They mostly seem to only steal generic style anime chibis from the most popular series as well as well, so I think anyone with any kind of unique or interesting style not drawing FOTM is fine...

[Anonymous No.9986680]

>>9986655
>so I think anyone with any kind of unique or interesting style not drawing FOTM is fine...

You realise what thread you're in, right?

[Anonymous No.9986695]

>>9986655
>risk of (fanart) charm designs being stolen
Yeah, I kinda get what you mean. The person buying 1$ blurry charms off aliexpress wasn't really my clientele anyway. But still, it's always annoying when someone copies your work and you don't get any piece of the credit/profit.

[Anonymous No.9986698]

Has anyone used any of the sites listed for acrylic charm makers in the pinned resources? I'm never had acrylic charms made before so I want to know what options are good.

[Anonymous No.9986702]

>>9986698
Yes. Please at least try to lurk a little before you ask...
There are plenty of reviews all over the internet you can look up.

[Anonymous No.9986728]

How'd everyone do at their respective cons last weekend? I went to CRX and while the first two days were good the last day was super dead and I barely made any sales.

[Anonymous No.9986741]

>>9986728
Sat > Sun = Mon, overall ended up slightly breaking even. This was my first con so I have no idea if that's normal, just a CRX thing, or just a me thing...

[Anonymous No.9986745]

>>9986504
If you wanted to make your own charms, you could buy a cheap CO2 laser CNC for 400 bucks and a printer that can print on something transparent (like transparent film). Just need to glue everything together before cutting with the laser. Obviously it's not the most professional method but it's a lot cheaper. Haven't tried so not sure if there are any problems with this plan.

[Anonymous No.9986789]

Honestly I kind of want people to spread bad Chinese manufacturer rumors so newfags stop clogging up resources

[Anonymous No.9986792]

>>9986379
saaaaame. But I kinda hate charms and have never bought or had charms made for me before, so I don't know the first thing about them. I see the opportunity, but I don't know enough about the market.
As AA gets over-crowded, manufacturing merch for people in AA begins to make way more sense than being in AA yourself.
Sell the shovel to the miner, you know the saying.

[Anonymous No.9986795]

>>9986789
This. I feel kinda bad for thinking this but also nah, not really.

I swear every time a good manu pops up someone goes and spreads it all over AANI or something and within a few months everything goes to shit. Why can't the "enamel pin secrecy standard" hold true for everything else lol...

[Anonymous No.9986811]

>>9986741
Slightly breaking even is pretty good for a first con. Especially since Sacanime and CRX were the same weekend and definitely fucked up sales/attendance for both cons(but more on Sacanime's end)
Hard to tell how next year will be but I think it'll be better sales wise if you can get in

[Anonymous No.9986833]

>>9986728
Was at Sac. This being my first 3-day event, I'm pretty happy with how it went. Broke even pretty cleanly on day one.

Sat>Fri>Sun
Fri had some sales early and then basically died the rest of the day. Sat had a lot more consistent traffic, but still long periods of time where I wanted to just fall asleep. Sun was shit and only small impulse items sold decently.

Have to wonder how next summer is going to go with the changed dates.

[Anonymous No.9986850]

>>9986728
I was at Sac. I made
Fri = 253
Sat = 645
Sun = 728
Total = 1626
That's just sales, not including expense/cost. Is that good? Considering I don't do prints, I only make/sell stickers, charms, and buttons.

[Anonymous No.9986890]

>>9986789
lol exactly what I was thinking. Kinda hope vograce loses their rep among group order artists so they're not so overloaded doing 5 pieces per design multiplied by like 200 different designs or some shit

[Anonymous No.9986891]

>>9986890
>5 pieces per design
this shit fucks me off so hard (i've hosted group orders). It's one thing if you're doing a personal design for you and some friends or something, but if you think you can only sell less than 10 of something why even bother? Is it just poor planning and just ordering for like 1 day of a show at a time?

[Anonymous No.9986892]

>>9986728
I did CRX and made about 3.5k. I make around 5k at Fanime in the same location so it wasn't bad for a newer con with a lot of competition.

[Anonymous No.9986941]

>>9986850
It really depends on your personal trends; for me it'd be ok since I normal do at least 3k per con, but it'd be good for me two years ago when i normally did 1000 per con

[Anonymous No.9987013]

>>9986890
>>9986891
>mfw do 5 pieces for some designs
I sometimes do templates for certain charm designs. In that case, I do the whole cast. While I do want to catch the fans of the unpopular characters, I'm not going to order a bunch for them either. They're mostly just there for completion purposes and to make the display look better.

[Anonymous No.9987016]

>>9986504
do you mind if i ask how you advertise your webcomic? i have one and no one reads it (sad lol)

[Anonymous No.9987077]

>>9987013
I feel you anon. I'll stock 3 of a print even while I sell 50 copies of others just because they fit into my display neatly and are an ok indicator of my skill level.

[Anonymous No.9987145]

>>9986504
>This making charms for others would sort of be a side gig
> with a webcomic
> doing AA
I can already tell you won't have the time.

[Anonymous No.9987178]

>>9987145
Maybe anon has god-tier time management skills.

[Anonymous No.9987182]

>>9982691
jesus, this is so common tho. Especially with wannabe game designers too.
I once had a friend who was trying to convince me to draw up designs for her bf's game that he was "developing".
She straight up told me " Oh we wouldn't really be able to pay you, but we can credit you and put your name in the game so when it gets popular people will know you!"

[Anonymous No.9987187]

>>9987182
Best part? You just KNOW her boyfriend hasn't written a single line of code. He's waiting for someone to do that for him too, because his "ideas" are just so great.

[Anonymous No.9987194]

>>9987187
YES
EXACTLY
They're just so convinced they're game is going to be super popular when it comes out, but they don't even know how to make one in the first place and expect people to do it for them for free.

[Anonymous No.9987211]

>>9987145
maybe their webcomic is one of those instagram tier three panel 'relatable' ones.

[Anonymous No.9987238]

>>9987211
If they're willing to spring 50K for an art toy just for the webcomic, AND they already sell printed volumes, my bet is they're one of the big Patreon successes. And that their AA table is mostly or entirely a promo stand for the comic.

[Anonymous No.9987273]

>>9987016
nayrt but a lot of building an audience for webcomic involves updating on a strictly regular basis for a long time until finally it begins to steadily gain followers. It's basically the same principle as getting people to follow yur social media; for a long time it'll seem as though it isn't paying off but if you update steadily it'll begin to work. (Also have a twitter/tumblr that you post to when it updates, with a request that people reblog the update post, which should have a thumbnail or something else colorful on it.)

>>9987145
I think it would depend on how many charm orders they take on and how often they actually table (and of course how much time/complexity/frequency of update their comic involves.)

[Anonymous No.9987325]

>>9986833
Honestly, I think Sac is super fucked next year. They're basically the weekend after fanime. CRX will probably do a lot better since it'll have the industry offerings that fanime doesn't have and is later enough in the year to not directly compete with fanime and ax

[Anonymous No.9987351]

>>9987325
That's along what I was thinking too. If it wasn't a stones away from me I'd skip it easy. Are they going to move back to labor weekend the year after?

[Anonymous No.9987428]

>>9987013
listen it's one thing if it's like, a few designs in your order. I've hosted group orders where people have had 50+ designs and EVERY SINGLE DESIGN was 5pc or less. I get the completionist/unpopular character thing and i've done small orders for designs of obscure/unpopular shit so it's not that.

[Anonymous No.9987517]

>>9987351
If Crunchyroll has staked claim on labor day weekend, I don't think they /can/ go back

[Anonymous No.9987534]

>>9987428
Maybe they're restocking or only do small cons?

[Anonymous No.9987544]

https://twitter.com/hitsukuya/status/1038276332180971520?s=12

Report your taxes friends

[Anonymous No.9987550]

>>9987544
I know taxes are annoying but.. i mean canadian taxes pay for their healthcare system and stuff... i wish i my exorbitant taxes at least paid for shit i need would they like to switch places with me?

[Anonymous No.9987551]

Anybody tried printing and selling temporary tattoos?

[Anonymous No.9987558]

>>9986728
>>9986741
CRX was also my first con and I also slightly broke even, so I'm happy.

[Anonymous No.9987559]

>>9987550
If the main source of income for her is freelancing and cons, she shouldn't be dodging her taxes in Canada of all places.

[Anonymous No.9987733]

>>9987544
I wish someone would tell me what taxes I owe. Its so confusing trying to figure out on your own.

[Anonymous No.9987803]

How do you guys stop attendees from pulling charms and buttons off your display so they can tell you that they want "this one" or how do you get them to actually use their words and say the characters name?

Should I use labels or something? Just a note, these people aren't socially awkward or anything they just seem too lazy to say the names or describe the item.

[Anonymous No.9987805]

>>9987551
I tried to look into it once but the pricing was wildly unaffordable. Buying the sheets and printing them myself was the most cost effective option, but I would have had to cut them out too, so that's the point where I gave it up.

[Anonymous No.9987823]

>>9987733
Get a CPA - that’s literally their job.

[Anonymous No.9987824]

What are the chances that these will be the next popular sellers? I can't really see people getting more than one though so a niche product more likely?

[Anonymous No.9987842]

>>9987824
what are they?

[Anonymous No.9987858]

>>9987803
I put a piece of decorative fabric tape across the keyring attachments. That at least gets the message across that you're NOT supposed to pull them off the board. Then again, I did have someone who actually went and fiddled with it enough to mess up the tape and detach a charm...like WHY...what made you think that was a good idea....

And yeah, people do tend to have major reading comprehension issues at cons, but maybe a nice big "PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE FROM DISPLAY" might help haha.

>>9987824
Idk...As you said, you first have to get over the hurdle of 1) People don't usually get more than 1 of these and 2) A lot of people have decorative phone cases that they don't want to cover with one of these. I don't imagine it'll be worth the production cost tb h.

[Anonymous No.9987886]

>>9987842
I believe it’s a phone “style ring”, a doohickey that sticks on the back of your phone to be used as a holder, stand, etc.

[Anonymous No.9987932]

>>9987544
I wonder how much in penalties she'll have to pay since it looks like they caught her for tax evasion and not reporting sales taxes that should have been collected?

[Anonymous No.9987957]

>>9987932
Canada is pretty chill about not paying taxes if it's a genuine error. She will probably have a late fee or some interest on what she owes, if that. You can even get those completely forgiven in a lot of situations.

[Anonymous No.9987962]

I recently figured out why I have had such a hard time making art the last few years.

I'm the type of person to glom onto someone and I can talk for hours with them, happy as a clam. So I did that with my ex-BF and then my last roommate. Neither were artists. I only started ramping up production again after finally being able to afford to live on my own.

This is fine for right now but I don't necessarily want to be single forever. Does anyone have a similar issue and was able to overcome it? How?

[Anonymous No.9988056]

How do you guys feel about artists who aren't tabling going into AA as an attendee and trading their own merch with other artists?

[Anonymous No.9988058]

>>9988056
I've never heard of this. I think that's so bizzare..

[Anonymous No.9988060]

>>9987962
Why is having someone to talk to such a detriment to your productivity?

[Anonymous No.9988061]

>>9988056
I don't see the problem with it? A little ballsy but if their art isn't good then just don't trade with them.

[Anonymous No.9988063]

>>9988060
I'm not sure. We just would start talking and suddenly BAM 4 hours later and I hadn't done anything else with that free time.

It's not even like I'm a super social person. I just click well with a few individuals.

[Anonymous No.9988072]

>>9987957
I think she'll still have to pay whatever they think she owes them for the 2 years of unpaid back taxes though, interest or late fees waived. I'd estimate she owes about 10-15k assuming she made sub 50k on Canadian soil.

[Anonymous No.9988074]

>>9988072
You're required to get a tax id once you make at least $30k/y in sales. That's when you're required to get one and start collecting GST and HST on sales. So means she's been making more than 30k per year since 2016 at least.

[Anonymous No.9988075]

>>9987962
>>9988063
Are you my last table partner? I one had a helper who would say she will be gone for 30 minutes, and 2 hours later I go look for her and she has just been talking to one person the whole time.

>>9988056
someone did this with me once and I loved it. I got a really cool cosplay prop out of it. As long as its something good, its fine with me.

[Anonymous No.9988081]

>>9988056
im big on trading so I would be cool with this (granted other trading reqs have been met: not shit art, fandoms I like, interesting original stuff etc). I kind of wish there was a public forum or trend of posting on twitter/instagram if you're open for trades and what you're looking for - then if you weren't tabling you could still do this and let other artists know you'll be wandering the floor.

[Anonymous No.9988084]

Anyone want to talk about the dumpster fire that is ALA? I'm just hearing news from the sidelines since I have obligations during the con dates, but did anyone here actually manage secure a table?

I was sad at first about not being able to go despite last year's tent con but HOO BOY after this...wow.

[Anonymous No.9988087]

>>9988084
What's the new news about ALA?

[Anonymous No.9988114]

>>9988087
Nyart but after the weird charging fiasco they tweeted that anyone who got charged on their card had a table and then started giving out tables to the waitlist.

Surprise, many artists who were charged just got an email saying they didnt get tables after all and there are no more for them :)

[Anonymous No.9988118]

>>9988114
huh, so does that mean the artists on waitlist that got offered tables still get tables?

Or it means ppl who got off waitlist, and those who were originally charged both don't have tables?

[Anonymous No.9988120]

>>9988084
So glad I didn't even bother trying. I'm still peeved from last year and I guess they still haven't got their shit together. Hopefully everyone who IS going doesn't have more fuckery awaiting them.

[Anonymous No.9988136]

>>9988118
According to what I've seen on Twitter + my memory,
1) FCFS was a mess, lots of artists who managed to "get in" were charged multiple (2-3) times--that's like $900 lol...
2) ALA: sorry for all the multiple charges! We'll deal with that later lol but NO WORRIES you got a table. Guaranteed.
3) ALA: *gives away tables to waitlist*
4) everyone: uhhh so did you guys send out a confirmation email?
5) ALA: OOPS turns out some of you didn't actually get a table cause we oversold :\
6) table-less artists: uh wtf *sends angry emails*
7) waitlist people: *still have tables*
8) ALA@table-less artists: sorry but no worries we'll give you guys a guaranteed spot for 2020!

ALA also still hasn't solved the multiple charges thing, so some people are out almost $1k and still never got a table.

2019 had better be fucking amazing lol.

[Anonymous No.9988273]

Anyone catch the actual reason for all of this AANI drama? All I'm getting from it is that these girls were bullying someone in AANI on the discord and are now upset they got banned. Anyone know what they were saying the group is full of their whiny drama so my interest is piqued.

[Anonymous No.9988297]

>>9988136
The multiple charges thing needs to be directly consulted with the payment company ALA used on their website. ALA is useless and won't do anything because of that.

My friend was one of the few that got the multiple charges but they were able to get refunded for the charges after the initial $300. Because ALA wrote on their social media that the multiple charges (ones after the initial price) were going to be given to those on the waitlist, my friend assumed they had a table because the initial table payment was still there. For them to find out 2 weeks later that they never had a table despite this is BS.

[Anonymous No.9988324]

>>9988056
I love it. These people usually don't have any shops at all, so I really like being able to have a cool keychain or cute jewelry that's sort of exclusive. It makes me feel like one of the chosen artists they tried to trade with. Sometimes you get people with sort of meh art, but I always trade prints with them. It's good to encourage new artists and prints cost pennies to make. The potential networking connection down the line is worth so much more.

[Anonymous No.9988333]

>>9988056
I’d love both sides of this, trading is one of my favorite parts of AA. Wouldn’t want to advertise it too much but if it happened to me and their art/item was cool I’d be all for it.

[Anonymous No.9988437]

>>9988273
Oh hmm I was actually talking to this Aeo person the other day in the discord when asking for advice. They seemed very opinionated/adamant that the advice they were giving was right, so I guess I could see how they could come off a certain way, but I didn't actually witness what went down and all of their messages on the discord were erased (probably since they were booted off the discord).

[Anonymous No.9988545]

>>9988056
I don't see it as any different than when an AAer approaches me to trade. Very often, it's just a normal artist that is attending for fun or didn't get in that year, so they're taking the opportunity to trade when they normally wouldn't have been able to. And even if they're not, it's not like their chances of being trash are much worse than the chances of the AAer approaching me being trash. Print cost is negligible to me, so why not?

[Anonymous No.9988651]

>>9988056
I love it when it's another pin artist and they have shit I want. I figure they either couldn't get into the AA given how hard it is nowadays or they aren't as into tabling but may have online stores or whatever.

[Anonymous No.9988741]

>>9988056
Interesting. Forgive me if this is stupid, but....how does this work? Do people just walk around and whip out their goods or would this be like a pre-planned, "look at my stuff online and see if you want anything and I'll stop by if you do" kind of thing?

[Anonymous No.9988785]

I feel really bad for this person but how could a display setup possibly cost 4K to replace? It sounds like some nonprint merchandise was swiped too (in the pic i see lanyards and like four charm designs) which would be pricier to replace than just the banner, shelves and prints by themselves but still, 4K?

[Anonymous No.9988788]

>>9988785
dropped pic

[Anonymous No.9988803]

>>9988788
>Recently, Vaska Tsiolkovsky went through every convention artist’s worst nightmare. Upon arriving in NYC to attend FlameCon they had a stranger sign for and steal all of their convention merchandise, display material for their booth, and all of their artist/booth signage.

she should demand some money from flamecon itself, surely? aren't they liable for this?

[Anonymous No.9988814]

>>9988803
I remember this happening, the package was actually stolen from their AirBNB (the host also disappeared or something and it might have been a scam).

[Anonymous No.9988863]

>>9988785
Perhaps they're including the potential sales too?

[Anonymous No.9988907]

>>9988788
I bet the 4k is calculated from how much the stuff would have sold for rather than how much it cost to make? (i don’t think the manufacturing of pins/prints/lanyards/charms/pouches could possibly cost that much even if you allow several hundred for display materials) Or else an in between figure that’s higher than manufacturing but lower than retail.

There’s not really an established precedent for calculating loss of someone fucking runs off with all your physical merch so it’s hard to find fault with the reasoning.

[Anonymous No.9989027]

>>9988907
>I bet the 4k is calculated from how much the stuff would have sold
Possibly. Since the sold items would have probably paid back room and transportation, the artist might be trying to get those costs back too so they're not in the red anymore.

[Anonymous No.9989029]

>>9988741
One way is that they'll bring around their merch in a binder or maybe a box, and will be like "Hi this is the stuff I make, would you be up for doing trades?"

So not very different than if they were actually tabling.

The other way is if they're an artist with a bigger audience/presence and will announce on their social media "Hi I'll be at X con, if anyone would like to trade then hit me up or drop your table number!"

Which is also not very different than if they were actually tabling.

[Anonymous No.9989175]

>>9988907
IDK... their display and merch doesn't seem like it's the $1.5k mark.... but then again they might not make the best financial decisions lmao

[Anonymous No.9989184]

>>9989175
>>9988788
What's the story here?

[Anonymous No.9989197]

>>9989175
I just dropped about 2k on merch just this month and it was just on books and stickers, it's not that wild of a number to hit? They could also be including the cost of labor, those buttons look like they were probably a pain in the ass to package. Why are you going after them so hard? They got really fucked, let them ask for whatever they want, if their fans wanna pay it then just let them. 4k isn't even that much.

[Anonymous No.9989255]

>>9989175
damn don’t be a dick, I just said i was surprised by the amount but if they can get it I don’t begrudge them it.

>>9989184
It’s pretty straightforward, artist had some stuff shipped in to their AirBNB for Flamecon rather than check it as luggage and someone stole the package.

[Anonymous No.9989256]

>>9989175
Flamecon tables were $390? Whoa.

[Corky-Lunn !CorkyloMxc No.9989342]

new thread: >>9989341