The Western Lolita Community and Taobao

[Anonymous No.9810389]

I saw this post being shared by multiple different lolita friends and was wondering what gulls think?
It's an interesting discussion considering how common and available taobao is these days.
http://www.rainedragon.com/how-the-western-lolita-community-is-failing-chinese-brands/
tl;dr
>there are hundreds of chinese lolita designers that make high quality items just like there are low quality items in the US and Japan
>the chinese lolita community trends influence Japanese brand designs
>Girlism is more high quality than the GLB
>taobao brands are more innovative and have a wider selection than traditional brands
>saying something looks like it came from taobao is racist

[Anonymous No.9810397]

>>9810389
gr8 b8 thread

[Anonymous No.9810401]

>>9810397
Its being discussed in another thread where the discussion is burried in about 300 replies. But thanks for your input

[Anonymous No.9810403]

>>9810389
Just look at this picture and say it's "high quality".
Kinda glad you made this thread, it won't shit up the general again.

[Anonymous No.9810404]

>>9810401
So maybe keep it in the other thread instead of starting a new one off with a post that includes

>saying something looks like it came from taobao is racist

That's setting aside the one about the GLB and taobao being more innovative. If you want legit discussion you probably should avoid b8ing in the OP.

[Anonymous No.9810421]

>>9810404
Why would we derail a thread with this discussion when we can make a new one?
>b8ing in the OP
Anon, I summarized what was said in the blog post. It's not baiting it's summarizing and if you had taken even a second to skim through the linked post you would know that every greentext arrow is a point made from the original blog post.
>>9810403
That's why I made a new one. I hate when the general gets messy because people don't start new threads.

[Anonymous No.9810423]

>>9810421
I never said that those were your personal opinions, did I? I said that they were b8. I don't know why anyone who's familiar with /cgl/ would think it's a good idea to start a thread with

>saying something looks like it came from taobao is racist

Even if it is a snippet of the article. Surely after being here long enough you know how well a thread would go with this. Especially since taobao discussion of this sort in general tends to devolve into shitposting.

[Anonymous No.9810426]

>>9810421
>why would we keep a genuine lolita discussion in the lolita general which is designated for lolita discussion instead of making a new thread and clogging up the catalog with an unnecessary thread

it's a mystery

[Anonymous No.9810431]

>>9810423
It was a tl;dr. If this thread did end up being just shitposting, then it would have happened regardless of whether I put that "bait" in or not.
>>9810426
As >>9810423 said, taobao discussion usually turns into a mess. There's no reason to clog up the general whatsoever. If you don't like the thread hide it and move on.

[Anonymous No.9810440]

>>9810423
>Even if it is a snippet of the article

nayrt, cgl is such a hugbox this days, people have to tone the actual matter down to make sure it doesn't trigger anyone.

[Anonymous No.9810441]

>>9810431
So let me get this straight. You are someone who recognizes that taobao discussions usually turn into a mess. And with this knowledge, you saw a taobao discussion that didn't turn into a mess and got (in your own words) buried. So you decided instead of leaving it be, to go out of your way fully knowing that it would most likely turn into a mess if you brought more attention to it and make a thread?

Please, explain your logic with this. I am really curious how you worked this out in your head.

[Anonymous No.9810443]

>>9810440
>tl;dr is now a sjw conspiracy, news at 11

[Anonymous No.9810455]

>>9810441
I actually didn't see the original taobao discussion in the previous general. But if that one didn't turn into a mess, then why should this one? The only reason I didn't post this in the current general was in case it did turn into a mess. IF it did, then a general wouldn't be fucked over. If it's one single thread then jans can delete it or it can die off. There was no reason to put a general at risk. There are multiple shitty, unnecessary, or borderline rule breaking threads in the catalog and I hope you go after those with the same determination that you did this one.

Now you and the other anon are just derailing the thread for no reason. Is it on purpose?

[Anonymous No.9810458]

>>9810440
It's because modern /cgl/ is filled with conlitas that do believe and argue that taobao and brand are on equal grounds.

[Anonymous No.9810461]

>>9810455
>actually trying to argue that making a thread with b8 in the OP is okay because there are other threads that are also b8 up in the catalog

It's clear at this point that you didn't actually think it through.

[Anonymous No.9810463]

I feel like Rainedragon is overestimating Chinese lolitas. Yes, they have purchasing power. But it's mainly because of their sheer number. The reason why taobao is so shit is because Chinese people don't care about longevity. Most of Chinese lolitas want cheap dresses that they can wear for a few seasons and buy new cheap stuff next year. Many of them also treat the taobao stuff as daily wear, so the cheap price tag makes sense. There is no market for Chinese made high quality dresses, because most Chinese know themselves that imported products are just better (and that's not exclusive to lolitas, it applies to basically anything). The rich ones buy those tacky OTT dresses to show off or the expensive Japanese brands like JetJ, but that's it. The concept of buying something and owning it for a long period of time is something still relatively new in Chinese culture. Most of them, even the more wealthier ones, have that mentality of "making a good deal". Spending less money on something but having to replace it sooner is totally normal. And that mentality toally reflects in the taobao market. The taobao designers make a fancy overall product but skip on details such as better lace or better quality base cotton fabrics. So there is the illusion of an expensive dress, but it's not quite it upon closer inspection. It's also common for Chinese hopping on the same train at the same time when something seems lucrative. At the moment there are tons of new taobao brands emerging, but most of them are same-samey, so the taobao boom is totally oblivious to the west. There is no "failing" the Chinese brands, when they cater to their own demands and we have completely opposite priorities when it comes to buying.

[Anonymous No.9810464]

>>9810389
This article made me roll my eyes so hard. I used to like her and respect her, but now I don't. I'll tolerate her views, but there's no way I'm supporting this.

[Anonymous No.9810468]

Why do we need to debate liking taobao or not? If you like it cool, if you don't cool. I like taobao for daily wear and because sometimes there are unusual designs that you don't get with brands but I don't get my panties in a twist if someone hates taobao.

I just don't get why we can't accept that people have different tastes and different preferences for what they want out of their wardrobe

[Anonymous No.9810476]

>>9810468
>Expecting cgl to be reasonable and consider others

[Anonymous No.9810478]

>>9810476
Yeah I realized after I posted that I was being foolish to expect this. Girl can dream though

[Anonymous No.9810482]

>>9810468
Because a lot of us are worried about the Japanese brands with many closing last year. With fast fashion taking over, taobao is just making it happen faster and it's not benefiting anyone.

[Anonymous No.9810485]

>>9810482
That's an understandable concern although I don't quite comprehend how yelling at people for their different taste does anything to solve the issue.
If you're worried about them closing from lack of funds then support with your wallet (which I do) not by yelling at someone who honestly at the end of the day is going to keep buying.

But again, I'm expecting people to be rational which as >>9810476 pointed out is exceedingly foolish on my part.

tl;dr I understand your concern. Doesn't really explain screeching at people who like taobao but I can understand the root concern

[Anonymous No.9810489]

>>9810468
I really don't think this is an issue of whether you like it or not. I think it's more of a do you actually think there are taobao brands that have quality that rivals japanese brands?

[Anonymous No.9810494]

>>9810463
>Chinese people don't care about longevity. Most of Chinese lolitas want cheap dresses that they can wear for a few seasons and buy new cheap stuff next year.

lmao fuck kind of assumption is this? Are you white?

All real Chinese lolitas glorify Japanese brand, the closest they get to taobao brands is KL, etc. Even Dear Celine is considered a low-tier taobao brand now. Chinese lolitas eat up AP/Baby releases like crazy, they're the real purchasing power behind keeping japanese brand afloat amidst the taobao lolita craze.
It's actually chinese conlitas like what >>9810458 who want the cheap dresses that they can wear once or twice for a photoshoot. They also drive replicas to some extent. They're looked down on by Chinese lolitas and often referred to as "cos-lolitas". They don't treat lolita like clothes, but more of a "costume" (word used loosely) to wear for a shoot or something.

>>9810482
Chinese lolitas is really supporting some Japanese brands like Mary Magdalene, TF, who continue to make appearances at lolita events. MM for example does limited sales at these events.
Japanese brands closing is yes, a shift of being able to buy cheaper things, but also simply just trends shifting.

[Anonymous No.9810500]

>>9810485
I understand anon. I'm not participating in the yelling and I'm doing my best to vote with my wallet, but it only works if we all do. We don't have the numbers like China does.

[Anonymous No.9810509]

>>9810401
Because people weren't interested in a discussion. Everyone pretty much agreed with each other that the blog post is shit.

[Anonymous No.9810510]

>>9810389
I think you're all cowards. If you're so bothered by taobao gaining popularity and being called out as racist, why don't you comment on her blog post or comment on the posts of your friends sharing it?

[Anonymous No.9810511]

>>9810468
But don't you get it anon, just saying 'Taobao' rather that 'Chinese Indie Brands' is racist and you're a bigot if you believe otherwise.
Chinese Indie brands are all glorious and China has the best manufacturing infrastructure of all time how dare you say the people can just not like all of the stuff you can get on taobao, don't you know that Taobao is just a site, just like etsy, and no body makes any distictions for etsy idie brands unless their awful, don't you know that in China they're getting better and better at making wonderful lolita and it's about time that someone stood up for them, because they've been belittled for far too long!!

[Anonymous No.9810514]

>>9810389
The intro of her post is so stupid with misinformation. Does she only talk with newfags?

[Anonymous No.9810517]

Chinese people are by far the most racist selfish assholes by far, every one I've ever met in person and known online.
Brands like Krad make a distict point to do as little with us foreigners as possible, they throw WW the bottom barrel shit that they know won't sell as well to their customer base and have both them and Clobba jack the price up beyond it's real value.
Why should I bend over backwards for a backwards ass culture that makes a point to shit on as many people, their own people included, as possible just for money?
Does no one care that 'Taobao' brands use slave labor or are we just ignoring that since the JP brands do it to?
At least when everything for lolita was coming out of Japan it was quality slave labor.

[Anonymous No.9810525]

>>9810517
It's wrong to assume everything made in China uses slave labour. The only good point Raine makes is that China has some of the best manufacturers in the world. But the thing is that we as consumers don't have any way to know how the employees of a company are treated. If you are buying something very cheap however, the logical conclusion is that they weren't paid a living wage.

[Anonymous No.9810535]

>>9810389
This article is so stupid. I'm Chinese and I dislike taobao, am I racist against myself now?

[Anonymous No.9810538]

>>9810525
Until Chinese value making a distinction, I'd hedge no bets.
Sure 'maybe' the sweatshops have AC.

[Anonymous No.9810539]

>>9810535
The person writing the article is white and writing for other white people, they just want to let all you Chinese people know that she's fighting for YOU.

[Anonymous No.9810542]

>>9810535
same.

Also adding to my >>9810494 post, even Chinese lolitas refer to it as "chinese brands 国牌" and japanese brands as japanese brands.

>>9810539 bait?

[Anonymous No.9810546]

>>9810514
>not knowing who rainedragon is

[Anonymous No.9810548]

>>9810389
>I don't like x thing because the quality is lower than brand
>"waaahwaaaah abloobloo racistz!1!!one"
SJW idiocy strikes again. Now that that's out of the way, the Chinese aren't owed Western business. Especially brands like Krad who go out of their way to discourage Westerners ordering from them. People will see what they put out and decide whether they want to buy from Taobao or not, like they would with any other business. Christ, this isn't that hard of a concept.

[Anonymous No.9810556]

facts:
>8 out of 10 taobao shops are not quality
>more often than not, releases are printed chiffon, using the same bulk lace (they don't even bother to dye to match prints) & some flavor-of-the-month trend design
>no experienced thought goes into the construction of many of these cash-grab dresses, and there's no consideration for how the pieces will look worn
>3 new eager "brands" pop up every week
>it's all about the dresses half the time, so don't expect matching accessories or blouses from the same shop.
>almost everything has limited poof room because the bad brands are too cheap to use the extra fabric that is intrinsic to the fashion!
>good luck finding detail porn! these brands don't have the time or money to spend on painfully crafting a lovely dress

It's not a race or culture thing, it's specifically related to an economy that went head-first into a capitalist system. the focus for a lot of these brand owners is not longevity, art, or making a name for themselves as lolita designers with a specific vision. this isn't even specific to the garment industry. Take a look into the truffle market and how reputable and ancient truffle farmers in FR and Italy have to fight for their livelihoods in the face of fake truffles from China dug up en masse...by dogs. Authenticity is not a priority. Just get buyers, whether by imitation, association with established brands, who cares!?

There are good taobao brands that I see as elevated above the rest. I refer to those as Chinese indie. Dear Celine, King Eleven, Pumpkin Cat, Elpress L, Krad Lanrete/Dark Box...
Sweet Dreamer has questionable choices but at least they prove to have a lolita vision and dedication to the style. I consider them fairly decent.

[Anonymous No.9810557]

>>9810517

>Chinese people are by far the most racist selfish assholes by far

Haha love it when people say shit like this.

[Anonymous No.9810559]

>>9810556
I will not defend the fake, opportunist brands that hop onto the lolita bandwagon to grab newbie/tasteless ita cash
Remember when Lolita Updates was being flooded by release announcements that only had print illustration samples to show for themselves? that shit had to be banned because they were just trying to get people excited about whatever strange meme, vaguely sweet/gothic vomit, or animal print without showing proof that they even knew how to design a dress.

in the end, taobao is just a selling platform. there are gems in the bunch. but you can't deny that a trend exists. it's not about the people's identity or geolocation, it's about the business practices, the lack of regulation, and the cash-is-king mentality rampant in the manufacturing sector.
blame the gov't, not the people per se.

/rant

[Anonymous No.9810675]

>>9810557
I just want to be proven wrong anon, please.
Oh my god, can I just meet one Chinese national that isn't a self centered twat?

[Anonymous No.9810683]

>>9810542
Just fyi .. >>9810539 isn't bait, just heavy on the shade.
Raine's virtue signaling, and since she's doing that, she isn't including Chinese individuals as a part of her audience, nor factors them into her considerations.
So, the sjw equivalent of fighting for someone and completely ignoring everything the people their fighting for are saying, just to further their own agenda.

[Anonymous No.9810685]

>>9810546
Did you read the intro? I asked that question because I know she's been around for ages, I'm just looking for an explanation

[Anonymous No.9810705]

>>9810675
Garunteedreplies.jpg

[Anonymous No.9810707]

>>9810675
>>9810517
>W-we're not racist against Chinese people!!!!!!!!
>Chinese people are the most racist selfish assholes
>All Chinese nationals are self centered twats!!!!!
Really proving the blog post right, racist-chan.

[Anonymous No.9810710]

>>9810556
not a single person says chinese indie brand

[Anonymous No.9810720]

>>9810707
Just because I'm biased doesn't mean shit anon.
The argument: 'referring to Taobao brands as such is racist and uncouth' is incorrect. Having a negative connotation with Chinese nationals based on the behaviors of a handful, however, is.
I'll own what I am, and because I do, I make a conscious effort. I give people a chance no matter who they are, and hold up good people I meet as better examples of comparison.

[Anonymous No.9810730]

I hope someone writes a coherent, well-thought out response to this if I don't get the chance. Rainedragon is talking out her ass, both with the generalizations and the meaning she takes away from them.

FWIW, I've owned a decent amount of Chinese indie brands™ and was disappointed by most. My standards are high when it comes to lolita clothing, and because of the amount of money involved, I prefer to go low risk.

Why should I continue to try brands that sell via taobao, whose quality is unascertainable, and risk my money, when I could easily buy from brands I already know and trust?
Some white girl screaming racism over something that's not there isn't going to change that. Also, everyone I know rides Taobao dick -- taobao brands are always recommended and fawned over. Where is she even getting the idea that they're being discriminated against?

[Anonymous No.9810734]

>>9810710
Speak for yourself, I do quite often. I don’t bother calling taobao shops an indie brand until they meet my minimum expectation. To me indie doesn’t just mean “not AP or Baby” or “not Japanese”, it means independent designer- one that I’m willing to call a designer rather than a trend hopper. Something like Krad beats out noname trash every time and can compete with other indie like Lady Sloth, LIEF, etc. of course it isn’t the same as the big boys but I can accept it.

I do think they increased their price point without really increasing the quality lately so that’s my one real complaint, and I don’t buy new because of that.

[Anonymous No.9810737]

>>9810734

Lady Sloth IMO alternates being some sort of weird polish grandma sweatshop for basics and trend hopping trash. Their designs are ok, but some of them definitely are wonky and I wouldn't classify her as being timeless or classy. But that's just me.

[Anonymous No.9810738]

>>9810730
I think to her one person disparaging taobao quality equates to eeevil anti Chinese racism, which is hilarious.

There are plenty of equally shitty Western indie brands compared to taobao. I think if you want quality clothes that last, taobao is not for you. It suits buyers who want cheaper clothing that isn’t used, need custom sizing, have esoteric print interests, etc. it’s not “racist” to assume that taobao on a whole isn’t great. If I buy three Meta dresses and they’re all really nice, then of course I would say that Meta as a whole is good. If I buy three Japanese brand pieces I could imply the same thing. That doesn’t mean every single “brand” piece is good. Of course some items suck dick, but that’s fine. The same for taobao. If you get ten mediocre pieces from various stores, it’s safe to say that as a whole it’s mediocre. That’s not a bad thing, and it doesn’t mean you hate Chinese or think it’s all bad because it is Chinese.

[Anonymous No.9810741]

>>9810737
Oh I don’t like lady sloth very much but she seems to be consistently alright. Kind of like Haenuli, not universally beloved but established at least

[Anonymous No.9810817]

>>9810557
When I went to mainland china, I was at the temple of heaven, trying to get a peek inside the temple. Since the Chinese people in the middle were literally shoving me aside, I moved to the side and tried to peek in. An old woman shoved me really hard and screamed "get out!" . Another time, I was at tiannenmen square, several Chinese yelled out "go home!", and spit Lugies in my general direction. Also, Chinese men would come ridiculously close to me, lean over and sniff me when they thought I wasn't looking. I also got glared at, mostly by old people.

By far, most people were really nice, and interested in talking to me about where I was from, what it was like in America, etc. but damn there is some weirdness going on in China when it comes to other races and foreigners, and even their own people. A girl I met there said she was an "ethnic Chinese" who was recently engaged to a Han Chinese, and people were super discriminatory against their relationship.

Oh, and if I thought I stood out, there were a group of Africans at the capital, the Chinese people were treating them like a fucking zoo exhibit.

[Anonymous No.9810836]

>>9810817
It’s weird, Asian cultures seem to have no idea of boundaries for touching, pushing, or racism. When they see someone fat or black, brown, white etc. they stare and make comments. I suppose it’s just a major culture difference, but I’ve had Asian ‘friends’ do things that would embarrass a westerner to the point of tears, like calling our Mexican waiter stupid and telling him his nose was too large. I hope this doesn’t come across as racist or anything, I assure there were no intentions of that, but does anyone know why general rudeness is so acceptable in Asian countries? I hope this isn’t too off topic, sorry.

[Anonymous No.9810863]

>>9810730
There are a lot of noobs who seem to think that Taobao is one gigantic factory, rather than a sales framework more similar to eBay or etsy, where some sellers are indie designers and others are not. I have seen some really cringey comments along those lines, particularly on facebook. I suspect Raine was trying to bring up that issue without ... somehow.. really.. actually bringing it up? There are some fabulous things on Taobao and there is also some truly execrable garbage.

[Anonymous No.9810866]

>>9810836
>asking about rudeness of an entire group of people on a forum about fucking lolita dresses
you bet your ass it's off topic but the horse is out of the barn now and here's about to get derailed to hell so have at it

[Anonymous No.9812099]

>>9810510

I honestly can't tell if she just wrote a controversial piece to boost popularity. So I'm refraining as much as possible from giving her any comments or views. I read her page through google cache as well, though maybe the pics loading did impact her stats.

[Anonymous No.9812118]

>>9810710

Actually, not every taobao brand is guaranteed to be an indie. "Indie" means "independent producer", it's not a term that's exclusive to lolitas. It simply means a company that's small-ish, not a large corporation, with usually the designer-founder being the one person doing everything.

Usually on taobao you can tell that a lot of companies like Miss Point, Dear Celine, Jewelry in Sunrise have one or two individuals behind the brand as the driving force that handles everything and oversees everything.

But then you run into brands like To Alice, Infanta and R-Series. Some of these have actual, physical shops in multiple locations, seemingly with large numbers of staff. At that point I think they're a major brand, no longer indie at all (although their quality is still dodgy).

Just because they're in China and you're Western, doesn't mean they're automatically small tiny third world shops. There are full grown Chinese brands that don't bother marketing outside the country at all, why bother when your own potential market is already nearly 20% of the entire planet. I don't know why you think taobao companies are incapable of being non-indies.

tl;dr, whoever is insisting that taobao brands are all "chinese indies" are the true racists as they are blanket insisting that taobao brands are incapable of being full-fledged, large successful companies.

[Anonymous No.9812151]

>>9810730
>I hope someone writes a coherent, well-thought out response to this if I don't get the chance.
>Rainedragon is talking out her ass, both with the generalizations and the meaning she takes away from them.
>Why should I continue to try brands that sell via taobao, whose quality is unascertainable, and risk my money, when I could easily buy from brands I already know and trust?

Agreed.

[Anonymous No.9812191]

If me calling something taobao tier is racist, then sure, call me a klansman already.
Calling something cheap and tacky isn't racist. Calling something how it is, is not racist.

But even if it is, I'm not going to stop. A tacky dress is a tacky dress. Why should I coddle some random bitch who's mad that taobao isn't that fucking great?

[Anonymous No.9812747]

It ruffles my petti when half the girls in my comm buy taobao exclusively because "brand is too expensive", but they'll buy 10 dresses every time they order. Second hand brand is actually so much cheaper now than it used to be, and the quality is almost always better than taobao.
Even the 'big' brands like Krad don't come close to cheap special sets from AP from my experience.

I roll my eyes so hard when I meet those girls and they talk about how high quality their taobao main pieces are

[Anonymous No.9812764]

>>9812747
>Even the 'big' brands like Krad don't come close to cheap special sets from AP

This so hard. I have Mozarabic Chant, which iirc is considered to be one of their better pieces, and it still doesn't stand up to any of my brand pieces. It's made of this weirdly heavy polyester that photographs well, but looks kind of cheap up close. I also have a dress from Equinox (a much smaller brand), and the construction and materials are just awful. It came with all these extra organza ruffles and an overskirt that I promptly detached and shoved in a bag because they looked like a high school sewing project.

I've seen some nicer nonprint taobao, probably because they can afford to use nicer fabrics. I'll still take my nonprint brand, though.

[Anonymous No.9812812]

>>9810836
Love Asian culture
Hate the people.

[Anonymous No.9812852]

>>9812764

Better check on it, the lace on my organza overskirt yellowed....

[Anonymous No.9812862]

>>9812852
Idgaf if it yellows, it's ugly anyway.
How the hell do they manage to make this stuff look so nice in photos?

[Anonymous No.9812869]

>>9812862

Photoshop, apparently. Someone found a promo photo where the photographer forgot to shoop the reflection in the glass and the model practically had a different face.

This is actually one of my biggest gripes about taobao, it's one thing that the dress is fairly what you paid for, it's not shoddy and it doesn't fall apart. But the promo photos were usually so pretty that receiving the dress itself always feels like a huge dissappointment. And you can't really pinpoint it because the dress looks like the photos, but it looks so much better quality, like the fabric drapes better while irl it wrinkles like cheap polycotton, or the lace looks nicer while irl it's a little scratchy and weird.

For some reason all of the Japanese brands do it the other way. Top-down lighting, low res, very few closeups, IW has colour problems. Then the dress arrives and the fabric quality is great, the colours are beautiful and you notice little details in the print that was in the stock photos but not really focused on. It's just a better experience overall.

[Anonymous No.9812880]

>>9812869
It's part of the differences in business practices in China vs Japan honestly.
Chinese business lacks ethics big time. If you get swindled, well, you just suck.

[Anonymous No.9812936]

>>9812869
I think you nailed it - taobao is always below expectations whilst brand is almost always above and beyond my expectations.

[Anonymous No.9812999]

>>9812764
IMO Mozarabic Chant is brand quality. Lost in Sea and onwards was worse, though.
The print lines up perfectly on MC, it's well printed and constructed, the material feels nice imo, hasn't shown much damage after 5 years. After Krad got big their production quality went down, though, and their wait times seemed to go up exponentially.

[Anonymous No.9813004]

>>9812936
>>9812869
A lot of Taobao brands act like classic scuzzy salesmen. A lot of nice words and pictures to create this fantasy dress that can be yours for the low price of 333 yuan!! plus deposit!!! They sell you the lemon, but in their case, you can't even tell it's a lemon until it arrives 1-6 months later. Then it's too late.

Many established brands, however, rely on repeat business/brand loyalty. They want you to be happy so that you come back, and they know that it hurts business when dresses are such poor quality or unpopular that they can't be resold.
They'd rather you be happy with what you receive than hyped up over nothing.

[Anonymous No.9813051]

>>9812999

nayrt. I just find this ironic, because MC was one of Krad's early hyped up releases, so while I always thought it was subpar, I also didn't think it counted when taobaolitas try and say that Krad Lanrete is as good as brand, in fact I assumed everything after Lost in Sea was at least better than MC.

It's just very strange to have it baldly stated that this dress that I already found to be pretty subpar many years ago, is some taobaolita anon's definition of "almost as good as brand", I think it brings home what a huge gap we have between what the brandlitas define "as good as brand" and what the taobaolitas define "as good as brand".

(To elaborate on what's wrong with it, MC's lace was kind of meh-tier, shiny and obviously synthetic. The charms they choose were kind of meh and ordinary. Whereas brand will often use less shiny lace that is less obviously synthetic material, and will have exclusive charms that you cannot find in some other shop on taobao, which makes them just a little bit extra special. As for the fabric being grat and not "[showing] much damage after 5 years", consider that Dreaming Macaron is from 2008 and you will still sometimes find one popping up for sale. That's 10 years, twice the age of MC, and instead of "not showing much damage" they tend to still have perfectly flawless prints.)

[Anonymous No.9813057]

>>9813051
AYRT, I'm not a "taobao anon" so I don't know why you thought that. MC is the only taobao main piece I've held on to (owned a fair share), and the 5 years thing was my personal 5 years of regular wear.
All I'm saying is that it's held up very well, comparable to brand dresses I've owned and much better than any other taobao or bodyline dresses. I've not owned much "indie," so I don't feel qualified to comment on that.

Personally I like the weight and sheen of MC.

[Anonymous No.9813060]

>>9813057
They never implied YOU were a taobaolita. Don't be so insecure.

[Anonymous No.9813086]

>>9813060
They kind of did anon... I think it’s foolish to take personal insult on this board but I read their message as “there are brandlitas and taobaolitas”. Which implies since MC anon had a taobao piece...
I doubt that’s what they were necessarily going for. Like many things in fashion it’s on a spectrum. You’ve got the true brandwhores that only let pre 2010 AP touch their skin, then girls who 90% get brand, then those who like offbrand accessory and indie, then those who love taobao, then super taobao who think brand is a “ripoff”. I for example own plenty of nice brand pieces and some mediocre ones as well. No taobao I own lives up to the mediocre but I also carefully select my taobao for minimal trim and frippery so they’re nice simple casual items. I imagine some taobao could meet the minimum of my weird baby dress with boring lace and a tube bodice.

[Anonymous No.9813115]

>>9813057
>>9813086


Hmm maybe using taboaolitas and brandlitas was a mistake. It just refers to how in most taobao discussion there’s anons who will champion taobao quality and claim (some of it) is equal to brand, and then there’s anons who will insist brand quality trumps taobao with no exceptions. But I see now how “taobaolita” can be interpreted to mean someone who rejects brand in a sort of reverse elitist way, which I did not mean to imply.

The rest is still jarring though. It’s so weird to see someone claim a dress is as good as brand based on a totally different set of criteria than what I’d use. Makes you wonder what criteria others are using when they make these claims (applies to brandwhores as well, I suppose).

[Anonymous No.9813119]

>>9813115
You make some really good points in this post and the other. To me it’s pretty simple: materials, construction, design.

>materials
Fabric quality and sheen. Lace type, quality, texture. Extras like custom buttons/laces are nice too.

>construction
Some parts are a dealbreaker like shitty hems, etc. includes lining, detail such as ruffles, cut. Small details are nice.

>design
Color choices, print quality if applicable, embellishment placement, balance of detail

[Anonymous No.9813123]

>>9813115
I'm not sure what your "standards" are either.
You claim the lace is scratchy and obviously synthetic, but I have lace from both AP and Baby that is worse. I also have fabrics from them that are shinier and/or feel cheaper. Baby is particularly bad about lack of lining, loose strings and buttons, bad boning, etc. I don't have any of those problems with MC.
A lot of brands release items with generic trim and fixings, too. I agree that some aspects of MC felt "cheaper," like the chest ribbon, but brands also release items with cheaper elements.
Very few of my prints line up, with MC being one of the only ones that does so perfectly.

I'm not trying to whiteknight Krad or taobao, I was just listing some points that I consider when talking about "quality." For me, the big 3 are material quality, construction quality, and design quality.MC lacks in material quality in some ways, but the construction and design quality are high.

Another issue is determining "brand" quality. Every brand has some hits and some misses. Made for lucky pack releases tend to be lower quality than regular releases. $1k lace monsters tend to be more elaborate and detailed than plain, casual pieces. Some people will argue that VM has better construction than AP and Baby, etc.

[Anonymous No.9813167]

>>9813123

....... and you're now doing that thing where you cherry pick the worst of brand and compare it to what you say is the best of taobao....

[Anonymous No.9813178]

>>9813167
I was trying to illustrate that it's important to have set standards in a conversation like this rather than simply saying "brand" quality. Honestly I feel like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, which I'm not into.

[Anonymous No.9813199]

Taobao brands (and Chinese products in general) may be on a come-up, but they still have some work to do before they're at Japan's level of quality. Until then, people will continue to notice dodgy quality when they see it, and their reputation won't be as good. It's really that simple. I don't think it's racist.

[Anonymous No.9813219]

>>9813178

It does feel like we're roleplaying some kind of taobao vs brand argument all over again, which is also weird because I'm not interested in that either. I'd vote we just stop, or well, I'm not going to reply anymore.

I really only commented because of the jarring feeling. We even list the same criteria, where we differ is that you would list MC as a hit and their other releases a miss, while I've always assumed MC was a miss and their other dresses were much better hits. That's all.

[Anonymous No.9813737]

>>9813199
I think the general consensus (for once) is that love it or hate it, race has nothing to do with it

[Anonymous No.9813745]

>>9813167
>>9813115
>>9813060
>>9813051
Kek, when even neutral comments about dresses come off as ~defending and wking taobao~ in anti-taobao anon's eyes

[Anonymous No.9813788]

>>9812118
I had no idea they had lathe physical shops. That's neat, are they worth visiting as a tourist

[Anonymous No.9817899]

>>9812191
Amen anon.

[Anonymous No.9817907]

I own all brand dresses except 3, two of those is Krad Lanrete.
one is phantom of the opera (long jsk) I would say the quality of that jsk is legit brand tier. It is well constructed and excellent fabric quality.
second one is Transilvania Moonlight (jsk). The quality is definitely AATP tier. I would say I was very impressed with it. Great fabric choice. beautiful lace. creative design--but not gaudy looking.
I do get a little annoyed that Krad makes it so difficult to purchase from tho. I got one dress from Clobba, another second hard.
**In general though, Taobao is not as good as quality as Japanese brands though. NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.**
I just wanted to note I think Krad is an exception.

[Anonymous No.9817909]

>>9810463
I definitely agree with you anon.its not being racists, its actually a cultural mindset.
One of my close friends is Chinese, and she has totally said this before lol.

[Anonymous No.9819696]

尚、中国製品の品質基準は日本国内の品質基準よりも甘く、僅かな縫製のほつれ、 タグ無し、細かい傷やチャコ跡等がある場合等がございますが、 不良品ではございませんのでご了承の上お買い求めください
>In addition, the quality standards of Chinese products are sweeter than the quality standards in Japan, there are cases of slight fraying of sewing, no tags, fine scratches and chako marks etc. However, as it is not a defective product, please acknowledge it Please purchase

So that's why I see this in the description. Because Japanese people are just racist and assume items are defective when it's supposed to be shit quality.