Lolita being removed from facebook

[Anonymous No.9103702]

So many groups have been taking Lolita out of their names since face books appears to be deleting pages with the name in the title.

Tumblr blocks the tag #lolita. What other pages have taken the phrase Lolita out?

[Anonymous No.9103710]

Could this be the opportunity we've been waiting for to rename the fashion?

[Anonymous No.9103713]

>>9103702
Instagram lolita tags gone too

[Anonymous No.9103714]

If the community could agree on a new name I feel like it would have happened years ago.

[Anonymous No.9103716]

>>9103713
Insta is owned by facebook

[Anonymous No.9103723]

We need a new name anyway. No matter how many times we explain it and look into it, Lolita will always be linked to that book instead and it's outdated.

[Anonymous No.9103733]

>>9103710
Nobody in Japan would agree to this change there tho as lolita is written different than the nymphet lolita anyways.

I feel sorry for the people named lolita btw.

[Anonymous No.9103736]

a name change will never happen.

also even if it was about the book, why would that make fb delete the groups? i'd like to know the reasoning to all of this first

[Anonymous No.9103737]

A lot of people are changing the word Lolita to EGL. But that on tag searches gives you diamonds since they use the same abbreviation.

[Anonymous No.9103745]

Let's just collectively accept the inevitable and merge with other JFashions and have JFashion comms. Right now comms seem to be split as calling themselves EGL or a JFashion Comm for the name change

[Anonymous No.9103748]

>>9103713
It's been this way for at least a year and a half.

[Anonymous No.9103750]

>>9103745
Egl is better if the group doesn't allow or encourage other Japanese street fashion and is focused on lolita and ouji/aristo. Our comm would not welcome Menhera, Gyaru, Decora etc., not at all. So using 'J-Fashion' could be a little misleading.

[Anonymous No.9103751]

Ok so Britain First can have a Facebook page but a bunch of 20 somethings wearing frilly dresses are taboo. You have goddamn ageplay Facebook pages still going around

[Anonymous No.9103754]

Is this the name suggestion thread?
I pick Quaintrelle.

[Anonymous No.9103761]

>>9103754
"What are you wearing"
'Quaintrelle'
Uhh

[Anonymous No.9103766]

I swear I remember reading a push for lolita being referred to in Japan as "Alice Fashion." I can't remember where I read this.

[Anonymous No.9103770]

>>9103754

Seconded

[Anonymous No.9103773]

>>9103754
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantrill%27s_Raiders

[Anonymous No.9103775]

Has anyone even tried contacting facebook? If they've flagged the word lolita it's likely the page takedowns are automated and you can get them restored once you make your case.

[Anonymous No.9103776]

>>9103733
How do they write the nymphet lolita vs our lolita?

[Anonymous No.9103777]

>>9103761

Am I a horrible person to want this just to see the global struggle on pronunciation?

[Anonymous No.9103778]

Ok I don't know if it's because I'm not American but I never knew that the word lolita had such a bad image that they would block lolita tags and delete pages? Wth? I know the book character is super famous and all but this is still a used nickname where I'm from, what if I use lolita as my nickname? Will Americans think I'm some weird ageplayer?

[Anonymous No.9103782]

Can we get a rolling tally of which comms have been removed so far?

[Anonymous No.9103785]

In my country lolita means prostitute... I had a lot of minunderstanded situations...
It would be great people weren't retarded and wouldn't judge a fashion for a related book; but we know that will not happen. I think isn't a bad idea, but the problem is which name. This fashion is full of brats who will want to be popular creating the best name, I can see the fights "no muh name is better than yours" "mine is more kawaii uguuu" "you stole MY idea!!"

[Anonymous No.9103786]

>>9103733
... no? They're both katakanized to ロリータ

[Anonymous No.9103788]

>>9103786

They use 甘ロリ, sweet loli essentially.

[Anonymous No.9103789]

>>9103778
No they won't think different of you. To be honest Americans could care less what you call yourself as long as you are not invading their personal space or insulting them. The stigma of loud ignorant Americans is only there because the media likes to talk about those few and not the majority.

[Anonymous No.9103792]

>>9103789

Blanket statements don't really work for America. What you said is true if you're in a relatively large city. It's absolutely not true in the vast amount of rural areas or almost anywhere midwest or southern.

[Anonymous No.9103797]

>>9103786
>>9103788
No, Lolita is written either as ロリータ or as ロリィタ. The former for the book, the latter for the fashion.

[Anonymous No.9103802]

>>9103785
Well it makes the most sense to go with EGL because it's what we already use. In which country are you that lolita means prostitute?

[Anonymous No.9103803]

>>9103797
Adding on that the latter came about as an attempt to separate the two. Although both are used to refer to the fashion, the former is the official kana used for the book while the latter is almost solely used by the fashion.

[Anonymous No.9103805]

>>9103797
Never knew that! Which spelling do they use for neo lolita/nymphet?

[Anonymous No.9103814]

So the lolita groups are deleted but the sissy ones stay?
Aight

[Anonymous No.9103816]

>>9103805
Neither, they use the english spelling.

[Anonymous No.9103824]

>>9103775
No answers and no reason why

[Anonymous No.9103832]

>>9103802
Spain

[Anonymous No.9103841]

>>9103832
??? I'm not Spanish but I know two kids from Spain who are called Lolita.

[Anonymous No.9103845]

>>9103841
I know some Americans Johns even tho it's a name for whoremongers.

[Anonymous No.9103848]

>>9103778
Where I'm from in the US Lolita is a pretty common name that old black women have. I think that some areas of the country immediately associate lolita the wrong way, and others just know it as a name; it just depends on the demographics.

[Anonymous No.9103851]

>>9103797
the latter makes it sound like there are two 't's and a short 'i' in lolita, but there are not. I have never seen that word used towards the fashion. where did you find that? every brand I know of uses ﾛﾘｰﾀ and we need to stop being so cowardly about the misconceptions. this has been going on for yeeeears in the west, but more people have learned what the fashion is all about. we can't convince everyone, especially since understanding is a two-way street but many people are stubbornly ignorant. who cares? why abandon our name? nothing else will work well enough. EGL or bust.

buck up, y'all.

[Anonymous No.9103853]

>>9103851
>the latter makes it sound like there are two 't's and a short 'i' in lolita, but there are not.
it would have the small "tsu" if that were the case, not the small "i"

fyi

[Anonymous No.9103856]

>>9103778
It has a bad reputation because disgusting pedos use it to tag and search photos of kids.

[Anonymous No.9103858]

>>9103851
It's on the Japanese Lolita fashion Wikipedia page.

[Anonymous No.9103883]

>>9103766
Yeah, they tried renaming it Alice-kei like a decade ago. Westerners didn't like that name as much as Japanese girls, though, so it wasn't a thing past Japan.

[Anonymous No.9103885]

>>9103853
>reading comprehension?

the small tsu lends itself to a shortened vowel sound. lolita has a long 'i' (length properly represented by the ー), not a short 'i'. chisai tsu makes it rori_tta, where one would, while reading/pronouncing, make a guttural-type pause between the i and t, to represent the double consonant. the resulting word is completely different and is not an acceptable spelling.

[Anonymous No.9103886]

>>9103713
I haven't seen any of the Insta tags disappearing. Only seems to be affecting Facebook thus far.

[Anonymous No.9103887]

This is so dumb. No we shouldn't change our name and we should definitely be contacting Facebook over these wrongful purges instead of hiding on confusing stuff like "Quaintrelle". Lolita is a person's real name and has plenty of other contexts, everything from a perfume brand to blue jeans, just using google.

The term "hard candy" is actually what is used for real, underage child porn. Are they going to start censoring and removing any groups or pages related to actual hard candies?

[Anonymous No.9103888]

>>9103782

Starting this tally. Metroplex Lolitas in North Texas was removed. Reply with what else was taken so we can get some numbers.

[Anonymous No.9103890]

Here's the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1evXegSoFbfEXn8o0joeA-KFvolNKPKllgvaYqNgvOiw/edit#gid=1

[Anonymous No.9103898]

>>9103885
Anon イ is an "i" sound. "Tsu" looks like ツ. So ロリィタ is an unusual but acceptable writing.

Besides. It's on the JP Wikipedia page. I'm not going to argue with Japanese people about their own language.

[Anonymous No.9103904]

>>9103890
So I went through and as >>9103888 said the Metroplex Lolitas page is missing, as is the Albany and Capital Region NY Lolitas, the Western Massachusetts Lolitas, the South Florida Lolitas, the Colorado Springs Lolitas, the SD Lolitas, the SoCal Lolitas, and the The Frozen Lolita Club.

That's just the US, I didn't check any other countries.

[Anonymous No.9103906]

The Finnish fb-groups started changing names when the news of American groups were getting deleted. Most simply switched lolita to EGL

[Anonymous No.9103908]

Could we bypass the purge by calling it J-lolita?

[Anonymous No.9103910]

>>9103761
"What are you wearing"
'Lolita'
"You're into lolicon??"

[Anonymous No.9103911]

>>9103904
If you try to link any of them you get this error.

[Anonymous No.9103917]

Why are they being banned? Too much drama?

[Anonymous No.9103918]

Why not Rori? We should take back that term from the neko eared weebs

[Anonymous No.9103925]

Lita

done.

[Anonymous No.9103929]

>>9103814
I want to see the furries purged.

[Anonymous No.9103931]

>>9103925
>Lita
Won't save the group.
North Carolitas was purged.

[Anonymous No.9103934]

>>9103910
I've literally never met anyone that even knows what "lolicon" is outside of anime related circles. Lolitas are so paranoid everyone is up on child porn terms or something.

[Anonymous No.9103940]

>>9103931
Even changing the name will just get the weird pedos and their adult children tagging themselves in the other name anyway and taking it from us too. If facebook wants to do this theres no stopping them, we should all just have our stuff on some other platform.

[Anonymous No.9103941]

>>9103934
Maybe not the word "lolicon" but people in general DO often know the word "lolita" as a word associated with pedophilia.

[Anonymous No.9103944]

>>9103911
Hellolace got hacked before it went dis , didn't it? Do you think the groups are being taken down because Facebook thinks the groups are all passing around sketchy/spammy websites?

[Anonymous No.9103945]

>>9103944
I have no idea what I typed or what autocorrect did but that was supposed to be *down, not "dis"

[RD No.9103947]

>>9103904

As I have a vested interest in figuring out why groups are dropping like flies, I'm compiling info

Brisbane Rufflebutts
fb/groups/267502219960615/
Edmonton Lolita
fb/groups/5050483394/
~* Lolita Ottawa*~
fb/groups/228327892544/
El Salvador Lolita Society
fb/pages/Lolita-Society/146707245417933
Iceland Fluff it like a puffin
fb/groups/fluffpuff/
Romania The Queen Bee Society
fb/thequeenbeesociety
South Africa Lolita Fashion SA
fb/groups/Lolita.style.sa

USA Alaska The Frozen Lolita Club
fb/groups/thefrozenlolitaclub/
USA California SoCal Lolitas
fb/groups/183171141698581/
USA California San Diego SD Lolitas
fb/groups/151080931608648/
USA Colorado Springs Lolitas
fb/groups/101249203355580/
USA South Florida Lolitas
fb/groups/SouthFloridaLolitas/
USA Western Massachusetts Lolita fb/groups/101220886716008/
USA: New York Albany and Capital Region NY Lolitas:
fb/groups/100564030072899/
USA Texas Dallas Metroplex Lolitas
fb/groups/179129105477269/
USA West Virginia WV EGL
fb/groups/440430659469927/
USA North Carolina NorthCarolitas
fb/groups/226986353996612/


Different error, actually missing, not blocked:
fb/LolitaBelleEtoile

Also missing: Rufflechat Rules (linked Hello Lace)

[RD No.9103951]

>>9103944
>>9103945
Yes. Hellolace was hacked and then went offline. FB has been blocking links to it for some time. I remember being unable to post a link when it went offline.

[Anonymous No.9103952]

>>9103951
Perhaps the deletions are being automated through Facebook's "security system" then, if it believes Hellolace is a dodgy site then it may just be deleting groups with tons of links to it because it thinks the groups are dangerous or something.

[Anonymous No.9103955]

I submitted feedback to Facebook. Hopefully an actual human reads it although I'm not keeping my hopes up.

[RD No.9103958]

>>9103952
Lolita sales in English wasn't deleted, but all the posts that link to HelloLace seem to be gone. There are none left.

Group descriptions are fairly long... and HL was a commonly used resource. If someone put a link to HL in their group description.... it might look like the group was about the HL site, triggering a deletion?

[indie anon !!gduXTuPrAo+ No.9103967]

>>9103890
Anon, I disabled the spreadsheet temporarily so no one can have the updated list. There's the old one available on EGL though if anyone new needs to search for a comm.

[Anonymous No.9103968]

>>9103958
Maybe. I'm not sure about some of them
So hopefully anyone who was in them could confirm if Hellolace was in their descriptions. I am wondering if since LSE was a much bigger group they only purged the Hellolace posts rather than hitting the nuke button on the whole group.

[RD No.9103974]

Hellolace was bought as on July 6th by a new owner (DON'T GO THERE)

It's now a redirect to a virus site.

99% sure this is our culprit. The timing is right. The error message on FB matches.

[Anonymous No.9103978]

>>9103802
>>9103832
>>9103841
Lolita doesn't mean prostitute in any language and for spanish, pic related.

[Anonymous No.9103981]

>>9103978

Dude, you know wikipedia isn't a good source for slang right? Like the other anon said "John" is slang for someone who buys a prostitute for the night, yet that's not on wikipedia.

[Anonymous No.9103985]

>>9103917
People that think it is nymphet pages and post their ageplay shit there, porn and nudity is still not allowed on FB.

[Anonymous No.9103987]

>>9103981
But we are talking about languages, slangs are specific to locations and I never heard about the John one before and I come around a lot.

[Anonymous No.9103988]

>>9103883
aw damn, i kinda like the name alice-kei

[Anonymous No.9103989]

>>9103974
Ahhh. RD, do you think you could make a post about this on Rufflechat or your FB page, whichever one will allow people to share it globally/without finicky privacy settings?

[RD No.9104000]

>>9103989
fb/RaineDragon/posts/789899314477855

[Anonymous No.9104003]

>>9103940
This so much. If facebook treats the lolita community like crap, just move somewhere else instead of changing everything to please some ignorant facebook staff.

[Anonymous No.9104014]

>>9103981
But you're obviously a troll if you claim Lolita means prostitute in Spanish. And creepy as hell to call a prostitute little Lola.

[Anonymous No.9104015]

>>9103792
What was that you said about blanket statements?

[Anonymous No.9104024]

>>9103733
why does it matter what they think in japan?
I've been voting for Neo-victorian for awhile

[Anonymous No.9104037]

>>9104024
I wanna second neo-victorian. It's what I've been using after hearing it a year or two ago. Might get a few misguided steampunkers joining, but I'm sure it would be fine.

[Anonymous No.9104046]

>>9104037
>>9104024
I think this isn't such a great term. If it's neo-Victorian then it should follow generally Victorian rules. Lolita has everything from retro to roccoco to even modern influences and doesn't necessarily follow anything Victorian exclusively. Imagine trying to explain to someone the lolita silhouette, but then another person arguing the "victorian roots" don't have anything strictly like that. Lolita doesn't take from any one source or time period strictly.

Not to mention, we'd be muddying ourselves with a much bigger, more vague fashion style that's already established and generally has a following.

[Anonymous No.9104052]

>>9103974
This looks highly likely to be the culprit. I bet the offending comms had notes pointing to Hellolace. No need to rename the comms, just remove all your Hellolace links.

[Anonymous No.9104057]

>>9104024
Because you are basicly trying to rename something they invented, it's just as bad as the media labeling lolita as "living doll fashion".

[Anonymous No.9104067]

>>9104046
Lolita style broken down into it's rawest form:
- Silhouette = Christan Dior 1949 "New Look"
- Victorian Modesty = No bones (collar bone, wrist bones, ankles, knees), limited ratio of bare skin.
- Quality Materials, Craftsmanship = To separate itself from (not high-tier) costuming
- Focus on pure "Beauty" = In the truest sense; being beautiful without sexuality being tacked onto it. (a return to the historical concept that being beautiful and being "sexy" are separate concepts that can co-exist or exist independently of each other)
Outfit Balance = Planning coords based on color distribution, balance and thematic cohesiveness.

[Anonymous No.9104069]

>>9104057
ages ago, the Western comms (despite protests from those who knew better) renamed ouji "kodona" and the misnomer has stuck. people still use it, and get salty when corrected. to top it off, non-major brands (Fan+Friend) market their goods to Western communities using "kodona" as a keyword. the ugly, un-Japanese term is here to stay.

even "aristocrat" means something in the West that it does not mean in Japan. it is still considered a type of "Japanese fashion" even though no Japanese brand outside of Moitie, and no fashion magazine, uses the term. (what we call "arisrocrat" they tend to call "gothic" or "ouji.")

more recently, a lot of anons have been saying "otome" is not used in Japan the way we use it in the West.

so anyway. it is definitely possible to refer to a Japanese fashion by a name other than what the Japanese use. the Western comm has a long habit of doing this, sometimes even canonizing certain misnomers. and it does not show any signs of stopping.

[Anonymous No.9104094]

>>9103754

Fuck off, we're squickerwonkers.

[Anonymous No.9104108]

>>9104094
Thanks for the war flashbacks, anon
http://the-squickerwonkers.tumblr.com/

[Anonymous No.9104115]

>>9103745
No.

[Anonymous No.9104116]

>>9103754
too much of a hassle

[Anonymous No.9104120]

>>9103987

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/john
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/john
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/john

And oops, sorry previous anon, I accidentally lied, Wikipedia does note that John is slang for someone who frequents prostitutes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

I don't know when it started, but I've seen references to "John's" in some 1800's lit. Could be older.

>>9104014
I'm a different anon than the person saying Lolita means prostitute. I'm just saying we can't immediately discredit the original anon because there's nothing in wikipedia. It could be slang local to her region, I'd buy that.

[Anonymous No.9104122]

>>9103710
>>9103702

I don't know why we don't simply call it rorita instead

[Anonymous No.9104123]

>>9103702
I'm all for EGL. It still contains the term lolita, it's an old term that's always been used in the fashion and nothing new like quaintrelle and the groups are already using it as a new name.
I don't mind calling the fashion elegant gothic lolita even while wearing sweet. Elegant sounds nice and most commoners don't connect the term 'gothic lolita' to ageplay like they do with just 'lolita'.
>mfw I saw someone on my college having lolita as their first name last week

[Anonymous No.9104127]

>>9104046
>>9104037
>>9104024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Victorian
this is how neo-victorian looks like. Do your research and don't confuse people out.

[Anonymous No.9104131]

>>9104123
Well better tell that person shes a pedo because we all know what that word means.

[Anonymous No.9104133]

>>9104123
I agree on this

[Anonymous No.9104137]

>>9104014
I'm also Spanish and I've never heard the name Lolita being used to mean prostitute. Lolita/Lola is a diminutive of the (pretty old fashioned) name Dolores.

[Anonymous No.9104157]

>>9104123
Yeah agreed.

[Anonymous No.9104211]

>>9104123
To be honest when it's someone I know and is important in my life somehow like my mother-in-law, etc. -- and who I know will judge the name of the fashion or the typical Google results they'll pull up -- I just say it's "sweet gothic." For some reason that seems to explain the look really well to them and they seem satisfied.

[Anonymous No.9104299]

>>9103814
Is this SOM?

[Anonymous No.9104308]

>>9104094
Is that Kate from Lost kek

[Anonymous No.9104314]

>>9104094
holy fuck I forgot about this

[Anonymous No.9104315]

>>9104299

Terranigma, bro.

[Anonymous No.9104320]

>>9104094
Had to look up the old vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf_4Y4APVak
Love all of the people in the comments going "LOLITA IS FASHION NOT COSTUME". like fuck, don't associate her crappy outfit and "squickers" with lolita, even if she is wearing burando.

[Anonymous No.9104329]

>>9104211
Sweet Gothic sounds cool

[Anonymous No.9104339]

>>9104014
>>9104137
None of the others anons, but I live in a little Spanish country, and yes, lolita means prostitute here. Maybe is an old word for name them? Idk

[Anonymous No.9104374]

So uh to explain the problem in layman's terms... for those who don't know about how domains work.

it was bought july 6th. Whois (thingie you can look up domains and ips with) says this:

This is what it says for hellolace looking it up in whois (looks up domains and IP addresses)
Updated Date: 06-jul-2016
Creation Date: 20-may-2010
Expiration Date: 20-may-2017.

Basically, hellolace was hacked awhile ago, original owner lost everything, was no longer really into lolita and just didn't have the heart to rebuild the site. I guess she never made a backup.

Since the domain was created in 2010 in May, it was up for renewal in May 2016. Likely having no desire to keep the site around, she let it expire.

Now you can find lists of recently expired domains. You can cross check this with daily visits, popularity, etc.

Someone who really wants to take advantage of this and send around a nasty virus will buy up a domain with traffic and active links around the internet. Normally this isn't the case...at least with all the ones I've owned because they weren't linked far and wide, just small personal sites.

And this is exactly what happened. Somebody hopped on the domain bought it, and used it to spread around a nasty virus.

These sites go on global ban lists, and they can be automated... so sites like facebook will automatically put sites that contain banned links on a list and it can automatically purge posts and communities... in this case if they have it in the description, since the program figures it's about that disallowed link. I don't know this for fact, but I work enough with databases to know this stuff is done very easily with little to no human involvement.

Sadly, this happened with the lolita community.

[Anonymous No.9104377]

Have we heard from any comm members who have had their FB page deleted? A few Comms would have changed names by now as a precaution and would not be able to be searched.

Tinfoil hat time: was it Frances? Did she report the Lolita groups?

[Anonymous No.9104379]

>>9104377
No, it was not Frances or a troll reporting. It was not lolita in the name. It was links to hellolace.
>>9103951
>>9103952
>>9103974
>>9104374

I know we love that our old lolcow Frances stocking-chan is back and stirring shit, and I know we're all tired of being associated with the name lolita butnotlikethebook(tm), but it's not the case this time.

[Anonymous No.9104380]

>>9104374
>Basically, hellolace was hacked awhile ago, original owner lost everything, was no longer really into lolita and just didn't have the heart to rebuild the site. I guess she never made a backup.
>Since the domain was created in 2010 in May, it was up for renewal in May 2016. Likely having no desire to keep the site around, she let it expire.

Didn't the original owner die? I'm pretty sure that's why the site stopped existing/being updated.

[Anonymous No.9104498]

>>9103797
Nope, both are used for the fashion. The bible uses the first.

[Anonymous No.9104499]

>>9104380
No. One of the lolibrary mods passed away.

[Anonymous No.9104500]

>>9104380
No this was Lolibrary

[Anonymous No.9104504]

I dunno, I don't wanna be rude but I work in the tech+security industry, and child pornography groups are actually way bigger than you all would think, to a lot of you saying "lolita" as a general term is bigger and more important.

I work with someone who specifically was on a team to automate CP finding on facebook, it was... huge, to say the least.

[Anonymous No.9104521]

Why not just go with Rorita? Or Versailles Kei or Rococo Kei?

Fuck everyone who says it's too late, we can change the name anytime. EGL sounds dumb and still has lolita in it. At least with the others it isn't obvious.

[Anonymous No.9104532]

>>9104504
Damn, this makes me really depressed, although perhaps I am not completely surprised.

[Anonymous No.9104568]

>>9104003
Good. Facebook killed the lolita community

[Anonymous No.9104582]

>>9104521
We've been talking about changing the name for a decade now, if we could do it we probably would have already. Also Versailles Kei sounds like you're dressing up like the VK band.

[Anonymous No.9104584]

>>9104582
>We've been talking about changing the name for a decade now, if we could do it we probably would have already.

Thank you, finally someone fucking said it in this thread. I know the name gets annoying, I totally agree and I wish we could change it and depending on the stranger I call it other things too. But changing the name just isn't gonna happen. It's way too culturally prevalent of a name, and no one is ever gonna agree on anything - just look at how many people are bitching about "EGL" (which doesn't sound bad at all?).

Changing the name is just gonna be too much of a process, there isn't even really one, and the only way to change it is if the japanese community and brands ever got on board, and to be honest I don't think they really give a shit.

[Anonymous No.9104588]

>>9104504
So people were making secret groups to post cp in on facebook.. damn.. i didn't realise it would be that easy for them. It makes my heart hurt

[Anonymous No.9104592]

>>9103789
Completely OT but as a European who recently toured a small chunk of the west coast I'd say that any stereotype that Americans are loud, ignorant and confrontational is definitely not just a media thing. I've never witnessed so many public fights or personally been yelled at by so many strangers in my life. Of course non-ignorant non-asshole people are more quiet and blend into the background so it's unfair to say all Murricans are xyz but I can easily see where the stereotype comes from.
>sage for OT

[Anonymous No.9104599]

>>9104592
Tourist towns are really the worst

[Anonymous No.9104610]

>>9104521
Rococo-kei sounds pretty cute actually but it doesn't describe the style too well since most common lolita looks don't take inspiration from that era.

[Anonymous No.9104611]

>>9104599
I've stayed all over the place, from bumfuck nowhere (three houses and a Pizza Factory) to downtown LA, and if I learned anything it's that loudly telling complete strangers what you think of them is like a national (or regional) pastime.
As soon as I got home I got stuck in a train car with drunk football hooligans though so I'm not saying my own country is any more refined...
>saaaage

[Anonymous No.9104655]

>>9103910
>>9103934
I literally had this exact conversation with a guy on the street and I had to wonder about how he knew about one and not the other. When I told him they're not the same think he started walking off pretending he didn't hear me, repeating himself because he was so proud of himself for knowing a totally legit Japanlandese term...

I just got kicked out of my boyfriend's parents' house for wearing a really really toned down jsk with no print, trim or accessories (no nails, wig, head now, lenses, eyelashes etc either) and being 'too quiet' at the dinner table one night, which they construed as acting like a child (I have Aspergers and severe anxiety + avoidant personality disorder). They went as far as to say I'm pedophile bait, deserved the sexual abuse and assaults against me because I was asking for it, completely covered up (In a hoodie and cargo pants when I'm not in classic/gothic)

My grandparents started a screaming match one Christmas because I brought a GLB (which one of their 65-year-old guests thought was really cool) also calling me pedophile bait, comparing me to Hitler and Mussolini (???) and cut off contact with us 6 years ago.

People get really twisted ideas about Lolita and it doesn't even have to be sweet, let alone AP ageplay pastel-vomit. It's amazing how people will pervert things; it's a cute, modest fashion therefore it must be a fetish thing!!! Absolutely fucked logic.

[Anonymous No.9104677]

>>9104599
Sorry bro, Americans are generally more loud and obnoxious than the rest of the western world, that's just a fact.

[Anonymous No.9104679]

>>9104677
Makes me proud to be a canadian

[Anonymous No.9104791]

>>9104655
I just want to say holy shit your boyfriends family and your grandparents are fucking crazy. I'd have let them have it and never let them live down that disrespect. I'm really sorry about your Aspergers and personality disorders probably made that all that much worse. Some people just can't let others live and act like it's their duty to shove their insane opinions into other's faces.

[Anonymous No.9104793]

>>9104679
Canadians can be just as bad

[Anonymous No.9104797]

>>9104037
>>9104024
Neo-victorian is already a fashion and it's not a good name for lolita since most of it isn't Victorian inspired.

[Anonymous No.9104985]

>>9104679
Canadians just apologize for being loud and are loud any way. Sorry bro your country isn't perfect either.

[Anonymous No.9105079]

>>9103904
South Florida Lolitas isn't missing, but the name is now South Florida EGL.

[Anonymous No.9105084]

>>9103947
South Florida is now fb/groups/SouthFloridaEGL/

[Anonymous No.9105180]

>>9103702
yo, this has more or less been confirmed to be caused by links to hellolace - delete all links to HL from your comm and you'll be just fine

[Anonymous No.9105199]

Ruffle-kei? Lace-kei?

Personally I like momoko-kei the best.

[Anonymous No.9105212]

>>9105199
Are you 12?

[Anonymous No.9106175]

>>9103702
I'm all about renaming the fashion and all, but I feel like most of the social media platforms used aren't really great for lolita anyway. Facebook was the best option in terms of coms but it still wasn't great. Instagram and tumblr are almost strictly for sharing photos and sometimes new releases.
I always wanted to make a website for lolitas to organize and make communities easy to find, meet other frills nearby or with similar interests, general discussion, news, and keeping outfit shots and wishlists and the like. Maybe even some cute gimmicky avatars too so you can finally own Cat's Tea Party albeit virtual. But my programming skills are limited anyway and I'm a hermit with no connections so it will forever be a dream.

[Anonymous No.9106215]

>>9104610
It is one of the fashions lolita draws inspiration from (everyone always says Victorian and Rococo inspired when describing it), and I figured with how cute Rococo-kei sounds it would be more enticing even if it's not 100% accurate.

[Anonymous No.9106236]

There's lots of good suggestions so far:
Sweet Gothic >>9104211
Alice-Kei
EGL

How about 'Dolly', or is that already in use for other fashions?

[Anonymous No.9106253]

>>9105212
These levels of salt are the reason no one can decide on a different name

[Anonymous No.9106283]

How about we stop discussing alternate names because it's never going to happen.

[Anonymous No.9106288]

>>9104655
Holy shit. If I were you I'd cut off ALL contact with your BF's parents. What did he say when they kicked you out?

Sage for OT

[Anonymous No.9106316]

>>9103702
We should just start calling it the name we want and edit the wikipedia article to "Lolita Fashion, also known as EGL or J-Fashion or Quaintrelle or Alice Fashion or J-Lolita or Rori or Lita or Neo-Victorian or Rorita or Sweet Gothic or Versailles-kei or Rococo-kei or Ruffle-kei or Lace-kei or Momoko-kei or Dolly."

[Anonymous No.9106352]

>>9103934
You're severely underestimating how intense the association with the word "lolita" and pedophilia are to the general adult public, especially among more educated people.

[Anonymous No.9106357]

>>9106236
Dolly-kei is already a fashion, plus it doesn't bode well for disassociation from living dolls.

I vote Alice-kei. Alice was one of, if not the biggest aesthetic inspiration for how lolita turned out (at least for BtSSB, I don't know about other brands) so it's pretty fitting.

[Anonymous No.9106492]

>>9104655
>>>/r/thathappened

[Anonymous No.9106502]

>>9106175
Whatever happened to the invite-only Lacebook? Did I miss it?

[Anonymous No.9106505]

>>9106236
Oujo-kei, because every lolita is a princess and hime is already a substyle.

Join your ouji brethren!

[Anonymous No.9106540]

>>9106175
It would be awesome anon!
Man, i miss the times of forums and bulletin boards to find people interested to lolita fashion, it was more easier and immediate compared to FB. Now, most forums are just left behind or closed, if you want to find local lolitas or a national comm, you have to be lucky to find their Fb groups. I'm in a FB group that is for lolita of my country, there are amazing people but unfortunately all the members here turned the group into a more personal posts or help group rather lolita only, maybe because some of their admins or friends of the admins have quitted lolita ages ago and here we are with no real lolita national comm. I forgot to mention the forum connected to this group was closed two years ago sadly. Anyone could make revive forums or similar web platforms instead of FB or other just visual platforms (bad for making new friends) like IG or tumblr?

[Anonymous No.9106553]

>>9104791
Thanks for the validation and sympathy, seriously. My first reaction was to break down in tears and play back every minute of that dinner and analyse everything I must have done wrong. I never wear OTT or sickly sweet, they had seen me in Lolita before and even complimented outfits and I'd really toned it right down. Even my boyfriend who is quite conservative was shocked at how they flew off the handle- all smiles at the table but they suddenly spilled all this venom 4 hours down the line. I had finally relaxed (relatively speaking) in their presence and was totally oblivious; until that point he was telling me to not be so paranoid that they were disapproving of me and now he isn't sure he knows who his own parents are anymore.

>>9106288
As above ^ I feel like they would take non-contact as 'being childish' despite not letting me even come downstairs and bitching behind my back to my boyfriend in the 4 days before I left. They told him not to tell me. His mother is a vicar. He was enraged.

>>9106492
As for the Hitler/Mussolini comparison their argument was that just because something is superficially nice (just because I find Lolita aesthetically pleasing) like them being very organised/supposedly running trains efficiently, doesn't mean their regimes were justified (i.e doesn't mean the way I dress isn't just as fucked up and evil to them).

[Anonymous No.9106562]

>>9104655
Kek
Can we make this a new copypasta?

[Anonymous No.9106596]

>>9106553
Oh, so your relatives are ignorant rednecks who think you're a pedo bait slut for wearing a dress, but are also history buffs with extremely thoughtful opinions on how various dictatorships were run. Seems legit.

[Anonymous No.9106650]

>>9106562
Do you want that because you couldn't write more than a sentence yourself?

[Anonymous No.9106653]

>>9104655
My thoughts on the matter.

[Anonymous No.9106681]

>>9103761
"what are you wearing?"
"lolita"
"keep your age play in the bedroom"

[Anonymous No.9106684]

>>9103988
No. No more being confused of Alice cosplay would be nice

[Anonymous No.9106794]

>>9103904
Las Vegas Lolitas is now EGL Community of Las Vegas.

[Anonymous No.9106803]

>>9106502

It's still up, I think you can now request invites (I got in by requesting one).

Not as much discussion on there as there is on cgl though.

[Anonymous No.9106828]

>>9103929
+1

[Anonymous No.9106832]

>>9106828
+2

[Anonymous No.9106840]

>>9106653
I love that one cause it's some what true. I think most classic stuff looks like either, granny wear or "I'm cosplaying a librarian"

[Anonymous No.9106861]

>>9103832
Lolita doesn't mean whore in any language, let alone Spanish, since lolita is a Spanish name.

[Anonymous No.9106873]

>>9106840
I love my AatP book purse.

[Anonymous No.9106876]

>>9106352
Not even just association, they literally use it as a tag for CP

[Anonymous No.9106901]

>>9106873
I'm talking about the dresses, not the accessories. Or the outfits as a whole.

[Anonymous No.9106950]

>>9106650
Someone's salty their made-up stories didn't get more pity responses

[Anonymous No.9107035]

>>9106684
The shape of lolita was intentionally modeled after Alice, so even if it's not exactly cosplay, its still a little based off of her. So, as far as normie misconceptions go, that's probably the least inaccurate.

[Anonymous No.9107060]

>>9107035
yeah, but Alice is dressed like the average upper class young girl...Carroll didn't invent the petticoat, nor the apron.

I'll agree that the lolita headbow is wholesale Alice-inspired, but the rest of the dress style simply matched the time.

[Anonymous No.9107073]

>>9106840
Where do you live where grannies dress that well? My gran only wears cheap nylon floral blouses with khakis and beige loafers.

[Anonymous No.9107078]

>>9106861
Yes because names are never used as euphemisms, ever.

[Anonymous No.9107079]

>>9106505
This. I also like alice-kei.

[Anonymous No.9107081]

>>9107060
Yeah, but the bellshape was still intended to look like Alice specifically, even if she wasn't the only little girl who dressed like that.

[Anonymous No.9107201]

>>9106840
This site is 18+, just an fyi.
The librarians here wear button down work shirts with high waist khakis and ugly comfort shoes, never a dress or skirt. On the rare occasion one wears a skirt, it is floor length and tube shaped, like what religious folks might wear. Most grannies I know wear stuff straight out of the department store misses section. You need to look at actual classic pieces instead of basing everything you know off one gobelin floral piece. There are a lot of other prints like fruit and woodland prints and materials such as chiffon and velvet, etc. Stuff that no normie would wear, especially the elderly.

[Anonymous No.9107292]

>>9107201
>The librarians here
I don't know where you live. I'm sure they all dress differently but I wasn't talking about actual librarians - I'm talking about caricatures of a librarian. Like what pops in your mind when you hear the term, someone bookish, right?

Also I've seen girls where I live wearing stuff that looks like MM. It's normie as fuck where I live, I don't know about where you live.

[Anonymous No.9108149]

>>9107078
Lol ok
You're so smart and I'm an idiot
Are you Spanish? No
So shut the fuck up lol

[Anonymous No.9108161]

>>9108149
You are absolutely right about being an idiot. Did you fucking miss the John discussion up thread?
Take your own advice and gtfo.

lol

[Anonymous No.9108242]

>>9107081
>Knows exactly what every designer is thinking
>Ok

[Anonymous No.9109508]

>>9104655
>People get really twisted ideas about Lolita and it doesn't even have to be sweet
> It's amazing how people will pervert things;
>Absolutely fucked logic.
>.....
>"AP ageplay pastel-vomit"

Do you fucking listen to yourself anon?

[Anonymous No.9109509]

>>9106505
I-I actually like this, and I didn't even really care about the name thing..

[Anonymous No.9109511]

>>9107081
WRONG! GET SOME FUCKING HISTORY.

[Anonymous No.9109558]

As someone who was introduced to the fashion back in 2001 by my then Japanese pen pal (inb4 old fag) it was and will always be EGL for me. Referring to the fashion as EGL makes the most sense out of all these suggestions as it's already an established moniker, here and in Japan. I personally like the idea of Oujo, sounds kind of cute, and sweet gothic sounds nice but I wouldn't want it if I were a classic or gothic lolita. Alice-kei... I really can't bring myself to like this at all, despite any relevance.

[Anonymous No.9109562]

>>9103710
>rename the fashion?

Cowards.