What do lolitas think about lolita?

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What do lolitas think about lolita? Anonymous Wed Mar 25 22:18:30 2015 No.8206404 [Reply] [Original]

What are cgls options on Lolita fashion and its communities? Do you have things that bother you that is generally accepted?

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 22:34:30 2015 No.8206441

I generally don't like how sweet is the main focus for a lot of people, while punk is Ita. I wish more punk aristocrat styles were worn to bring somewhat of a balance. I also think people should upload to more appropriate places for outfit post such as lookbook or street-snap sites instead of tumblr. Then we would'nt have to deal with 90% of the problems we do have.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 25 22:52:44 2015 No.8206491 >>8206441 This. I want more punk and creative gothic.

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:20:59 2015 No.8206545

I hate how OTT everything has become. It seems like back in the day even though it was a crazy style, you could still wear it as everyday clothes for the most part. Now everything is either OTT or ita, and the outfits people are referring to as casual these days are not even close to what I'd call casual. I also hate how strict things are, though I suppose they've always been strict. I like to color outside the lines a little to make my outfits suit me better. My outfits aren't any less Lolita, but because they don't fit the exact standard I've been told I shouldn't call them Lolita because "it's not." What? I'm gonna do whatever I want because it's my life, but that attitude really irritates me. It takes away a lot of the fun for me.

I'm not a fan of communities for the most part, is that weird? I don't mind the big online communities but the smaller ones, like the local ones, never appealed to me.

I love Lolita lifestyle stuff, and that is totally unaccepted, ha! I know a lot of people think it's fake and annoying, but I was into that kind of stuff way before Lolita so for me it was really cool to see people with similar interests. I think some of the hate the lifestyle thing gets is because people are a bit ignorant about what it actually means. To me, it just means enjoying your sense of taste or your love of Lolita as much as possible, and I don't see that as fake.

>>8206441
I miss punk Lolita being acceptable like woah. I was starting to think I was the only one. On the same hand, I also wish country was more popular. I like older styles and I always felt country was sort of a throwback to the origins of Lolita. I don't mind the focus on sweet, but I do wish there was a better balance of styles too. I always liked themed outfits too, like sailor, but apparently a lot of people hate themed outfits and don't like the themed substyles.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:27:20 2015 No.8206556 If I saw sweet styles without knowing about Lolita I'd definitely assume it was a tumblrina thing. Ageplay factor aside, It gives off a very sjw vibe.

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:29:00 2015 No.8206558

The usual complaints. A lot of over the top hugboxing in person and a lot of completely petty backbiting behind the scenes. Wish we could find a happy medium, though the backbiting can sometimes be entertaining to witness.

>>8206441
I'd love to see more aristo around in general, too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:39:59 2015 No.8206574 >>8206545 ^^This so much. Its annoying that showing your true self is to be a sloppy goofball

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:48:36 2015 No.8206586

>>8206545
This sudden backlash against the themed substyles has hit me pretty hard, even sailor and pirate are being attacked. Pirate has been a thing since at least ~2007 with AatP pioneering the style, and sailor is even older. Where the hell are the comments about them coming from?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:49:49 2015 No.8206589 >>8206586 I've never really heard anyone bad mouth sailor unless whatever it was looked really costumey.

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:58:32 2015 No.8206596

I hate OTT unless it's being done for a special occasion like photoshoots or cons. I like lolita for more of a daily wear thing so that means few accessories are more natural hair and makeup.
I like sweet and I think it can done without looking like a dumb tumblrina or age play and I'd like to see more of that.
And I hate pastel wigs.

Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:59:12 2015 No.8206597

>>8206558
Well some people might oppose the idea of feeling like they have to make friends with some people in there comm(the easy-fix to that problem). If people made the effort to make Lolita friends separately instead of trying to fit into a community of strangers everything would run a lot smoother .

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:02:53 2015 No.8206604 >>8206589 There was a bit of bitching in the lolita guidebook thread about Nautical and Pirate being snowflake styles.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:07:59 2015 No.8206614 File: 211 KB, 309x620, style_sailorlolita.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8206589 It was mentioned as a problem in the anon-made Lolita guidelines tumblr just made.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:11:01 2015 No.8206620

>>8206404
I kinda hate how matchy-matchy everything is now. Especially with socks and shoes; like I'm not saying black tights with a pink co-ord is A-okay but bitching someone out because the shade of brown used for their boots is darker than their dress is silly to me.

>Horns and ears
I wish Misako wouldn't promote animal ears, it's not gonna work gurl

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:12:21 2015 No.8206624 >>8206589 I think people were trying to pass standard sailor girl outfits as sailor loli.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:24:42 2015 No.8206646

I really don't like the way lolita evolves nowadays.It gets busier and more costumey everytime a new trend shows up and I can't help but think that a lot of people on tea parties look like giant christmas trees or caricatures of lolita.
I rather keep it simple,a little old school,stay alone and back off from all the fame hungry tumblr stuff.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:27:15 2015 No.8206648 >>8206620 I think its only appropriate to point out if there is 3 or more mismatched of the same colors.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:41:16 2015 No.8206672 >>8206648 I can agree with that anon. I think I'm just forgiving with shoes/socks

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:49:28 2015 No.8206688

>>8206620
Matchy-Matchy themes I hate. Not everything has to have a "theme". Sometimes I'm wearing flowers in my hair because they're cute and the color looks nice with my dress. Sometimes the "theme" of my outfit is just "I look pretty", not chocolate or circus or bunnies. Just pretty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:59:45 2015 No.8206706 >>8206688 >"waaah I don't have a cohesive wardrobe, you nitpicky bitches need to stop shaming me for something I'm too lazy to change"

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 01:05:47 2015 No.8206724 >>8206706 this

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 01:23:05 2015 No.8206752 >>8206620 Complaining about varying shades in an outfit is silly. Complaining about mixing warm and cool tones is completely reasonable. People seem to confuse the two when critique is given.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 01:30:32 2015 No.8206761

>>8206688
I feel like a really easy solution to this would be to reduce the amount of prints you have in your wardrobe. Save for some specific themes like sailor, it's very difficult for generic accessories like flowers and pearls and shit to not match with a solid main piece.

Also, doing something like wearing a star clip with a macaron ring when you're not wearing a cosmic pastry print is pretty stupid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 01:36:23 2015 No.8206766 >>8206688 In the case with flowers it could look off-putting(and tumblr-esque) if its combined with other random things such as a bread Bread jsk.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 01:47:52 2015 No.8206787 >>8206441 So like, Nana Kitade?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 02:43:00 2015 No.8206914 File: 246 KB, 900x1355, punk_lolita.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8206787 Pretty much. I'm thinking gloves,corsets, black buckle boots, etc....

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 02:55:54 2015 No.8206945
File: 83 KB, 550x944, 1392837599256.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8206787
>>8206545
I posted an oldschool outfit on CoF and it was deleted after five minutes and I have no idea why, I mean it was mostly handmade/vintage but do you have to be wearing brand for it to be lolita fashion? Is that style not acceptable on that page or is it just not considered "real" lolita anymore??

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:00:50 2015 No.8206952 >>8206945 CoF is ridiculously forgiving so that is a bit bizarre that your supposedly accurate old school coordinate was dismissed as not lolita.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:01:58 2015 No.8206954 >>8206945 your coord was probably real shit, sry anon

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:03:26 2015 No.8206958 >>8206945 Message one of the admins and ask why. That doesn't seem right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:03:34 2015 No.8206959 >>8206945 post your coord it must have been really bad to get deleted.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:03:56 2015 No.8206962 >>8206945 Post coord, the honorable judge /cgl/ will let you know why it was removed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:10:43 2015 No.8206974 >>8206954 They don't delete 'bad coords' though. Was it a single picture and was the outfit rundown text posted with it, >>8206945?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:13:52 2015 No.8206981 Flipping bothers me a bit. I know that's how some Lolitas make their money but for some reason the idea of people skimming the new stuff off j-sites and putting it on LM or FB sales with jacked up prices just bugs me.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:17:30 2015 No.8206986

>>8206974
Yes and yes, although since it was handmade and such there wasn't much to the rundown. I'm afraid to post myself since /cgl/ has always had a bias against me. The outfit was very similar to the image I posted though, but longer petti and no bloomers. I asked in my post if it could be considered ~too costumey~ but it was still my daily lolita outfit and i figured they wouldn't just delete it outright...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:17:58 2015 No.8206989 >>8206974 They delete non-lolita trash tho

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:20:01 2015 No.8206992 >>8206989 Surely if the style is outdated enough to be "not lolita", which is purely subjective and ridiculous considering it is the original form of the fashion, an explanation can be given?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:20:04 2015 No.8206994 >>8206986 Then I'd definately ask an admin why it was deleted. They shouldn't just be arbitrarily deleting coords if they are lolita outfits. Lord knows some of the stuff that passes though there could be and has been called 'bad'.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:20:17 2015 No.8206996 A lot of sweet lolitas use white eyeliner and while I think it can look cute to an extent, sometimes people just go overboard with it and I don't really think it looks good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:22:36 2015 No.8207001 >>8206986 Did it break any of the major lolita rules? If cgl has a bias against you, are you ita weeaboo trash? :^)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:25:32 2015 No.8207008 >>8206996 I really like white, pink or lavender liner in the waterline and inner corners but it starts to really look spooky when it's drawn out and lower like Gyaru eye-make, and then lashes so droopy-eye. With twin tails it really has a spaniel look.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:27:27 2015 No.8207012 gud

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:29:15 2015 No.8207017

>>8207001
Haha I'm not that bad anymore, I've spent the last two years lurking and building my wardrobe and I have a bunch of brand and wear lolita 3-4 days a week now, I have embraced the bitchiness, it made me stronger. Also no, unless wearing aprons is against the rurus

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:32:51 2015 No.8207027 >>8206646 Same here.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:49:18 2015 No.8207061

I sometimes miss the "fashion" part in lolita.
When I started to get into the style I thought it was about wearing frilly dresses and skirts and to look cute in a dolly kind of way in your everyday life.
Now it seems lolita consists of taking pictures of your perfect coords in your backyard or at a con, posting every outfit or new purchase on tumblr and bitch about nitpicks and itas. Do people actually wear their stuff as clothing anymore?

Also, sometimes the rules annoy me. Sometimes I just want to wear a dress with no petticoat and a plain shirt underneath. I'm paying so much for these dresses, I want to wear them like I want. I don't need to take a pic of it and not even call it lolita, but labelling someone ita the moment they wear their clothes not entirely according to some rules? Seems like this fashion is not so much of a fashion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:52:23 2015 No.8207064 >>8207017 Well damn, now I'm curious. I like aprons and old school. I'd be pissed if I found those mods deleting legit stuff. Now I'm really wondering what is up. I agree with above Anon, you should post here...or maybe repost there. Something.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 03:55:17 2015 No.8207074 >>8207061 As long as you don't post a selfie on the intertubes tagged #lolita, who says you can't break all the rules? Many of us do. That's not a thing so you are missing out! Wear your clothes, just don't tag them lolita unless they are a coord.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:00:02 2015 No.8207080
File: 614 KB, 1624x1600, oldskewl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8207064
Alright, I'll bite, I'm expecting a shitstorm of hate for various reasons though which I couldn't care less about but please, if this is too outdated or whatever and I shouldn't be calling it lolita these days then just tell me and I'll finally know. Also, that anon who asked if it adhered to the lolita rules, I realise the level of poof might not be large enough but I mentioned that when I posted it, and I think a cupcake shape would have looked stupid.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:03:12 2015 No.8207084

>>8207080
I'm going to try and be nice, but that looks pretty awful and costume-y. Definitely not even oldschool, just vaguely Alice-like.

The fact that your petticoat is showing is a big no, and the thing wrapped around your head (a strip of lace?) is confusing me.

If you hadn't said you were going for oldschool, I'd have assumed you were a total newb basing this off of anime lolitas.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:05:18 2015 No.8207085 >>8207080 >that picture >that filename >"oh I'm so controversial I'm afraid to show my face" That was a good troll. 6/10 had me going until this post.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:05:58 2015 No.8207086 >>8207080 I know you're trying the "blush under the eyes" thing but paired with the heavy eyeliner it looks really odd.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:08:29 2015 No.8207090

>>8207084
Thanks for not hating. I was influenced by period costume a bit too, like I wanted to look like what a Lolita would have been back in the early 2000s but I'll keep your critiques in mind and keep doing my own thing and not labeling it all the time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:10:59 2015 No.8207093 File: 111 KB, 219x229, Mrbones.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8207085 Glad you enjoyed the ride >>8207086 I admit that wasn't a good make-up day

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:12:28 2015 No.8207097

>>8207080
You are brave to post so kudos for that, you deserve a good concrit so I'll try to give you one though I'm not very good at them.

Agreeing on the costume elements. I think it's a cute outfit and it takes some influence from some of the old school elements but everything together here adds up to just too much that is 'not lolita' or 'sort of Loliable but not quite there'.
However...if you sew, and you made this, congrats, the dress construction looks nicely done. Get a lolita pattern from Otome no Sewing, make yourself a dress or JSK/blouse and a wider matching headdress and then get some Mary Janes and wear plain tights and your apron.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:22:34 2015 No.8207108
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>>8207080
Dress is nice enough, make a nicer full apron (that one is wrinkled like a sheet), mary janes (platform are cool), make a proper rectangle headdress
Cut two (======) prices with rounded ends, sew together inside out then turn around, iron and add lace. More like your inspo pic, everything looks kind of saggy in yours. Cupcake pettis add ugly but use a moderate a line at least and remove the bottom ruffle.
White socks would be nicer too. Thick lace on top of otks can give the appearance of peeking bloomers.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:26:47 2015 No.8207118 >>8207108 Are* ugly Anyway, main gripe is the ugly apron and accessories, and that disgusting peeking petti? but it could be good (and yes, still look lovely and imperfect and oldschool like the old days) but as it is, you need to change some things.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:30:26 2015 No.8207122

>>8207080
Here's what's wrong
>your petti is poking out
>dress doesn't have enough volume
>those shoes aren't lolita at all
>the red stripes look costumey
> the quality of your apron and head thing are neither old school or good quality
>The dress doesn't fit lolita or old school aesthetics
I'm not even going to mention the other, much smaller stuff, but I honestly doubt you've been in the fashion for long and lurked for 2 years.

The fact you're letting your petticoat purposely peek out says that much
>>8207090
it was never a thing for petticoats to stick out

that's normalfag street fashion in the UK 5 years ago.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:34:02 2015 No.8207131

>>8207097
>>8207108
Thankyou so much for the tips! I have made bloomers before and might try pairing them with this dress instead of the petti + socks which would bring in more oldschool, less costume vibes. Also going to look for some alice apron patterns, you galls have given me great ideas

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:42:41 2015 No.8207148 File: 130 KB, 680x511, 1396713986421.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8207122 Cute post, but so much irrelevant bullshit. Venting your anger at people won't ever make you any better, anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:46:04 2015 No.8207154 >>8207148 There's no anger in that post whatsoever and that was a much kinder concrit than I was going to give. Honestly the whole mess look like the lovechild of Ronald McDonald and Raggedy Ann and it's pretty gross.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:47:33 2015 No.8207156 >>8207131 Oh yeah, maybe some lace around the collar to make it bigger and add interest. You can experiment by pinning some to see if you like it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:51:30 2015 No.8207165

>>8207148
How is it venting? I'm just greentexting the major flaws, some of which already had more detail put into describing the why in other anon's post.

the fact that you/she claims to be a long time lurker/in the fashion for a while and thought a peeking petticoat was lolita/old school is simply an extremely newbie thing to do, so it's odd for someone who claims the above to do that.

peeking bloomers=/=peeking petticoat

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:56:02 2015 No.8207171 File: 34 KB, 600x449, 1419426559241.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8207148 You got angry SO FAST, anon. They were being polite and everything. To be honest, I think it looks like shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:58:14 2015 No.8207176 >>8207080 This could probably be saved with actual tailoring on the dress and having an cute lacy underdress showing instead of the cheap ass petti fabric.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:00:15 2015 No.8207178

>>8207165
Exactly, the whole post was practically unnecessary, rehashed statements as well as your incorrect assumption that she said a visible petticoat was oldschool when she never did. I don't know, just the way you made a bunch of assumptions and added in that crap about normalfag UK fashion just makes me think you're looking for someone to shit on for your own personal reasons.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:00:42 2015 No.8207180 >>8207176 The skirt still wouldn't be full enough even if you somehow managed to tailor the top in.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:05:28 2015 No.8207186

>>8207178
see
>>8207090
>>8207084

correct she didn't specifically talk about her petticoat, but she responded to the other anon who agreed showing the petti is a big no as "I wantes it to look like Lolita from 2000" and >>8207131
which made it seem it was done on purpose, especially given she should otherwise no peeking petti is a big no, but peeking bloomers definitely was a thing.

Hence adding the bit about UK fashion, since peeking petti was a thing they did in the UK for a little bit.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:14:42 2015 No.8207194
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>>8207080
Needs more lace accents if it's going to be old school and plain cotton. The example you posted first was velvet with lots of detail. Plain socks and lace sock toppers, larger matching headdress with same lace. More like this, maybe? It also has historical touches though from a different time period.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 06:45:02 2015 No.8207271

>>8207074
Yeah but what makes me sad is that it is impossible to post them, even without calling them lolita unless you're alright with hate.
Like, I know you can break the rules and just wear your clothes, I know people do that and don't post about it, but it took me very long to even dare and wear a rule-breaking coord. If you were knew to lolita you would think this fashion is very elitist and rule-breaking is not tolerated, no exceptions.
I wish we could share our "very casual lolita-esque" outfits without getting "ita"-comments and inspire one another. I'm out of ideas on how to wear my lolita stuff really casually,I would love to see other peoples takes on it but noone ever posts about it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 06:55:24 2015 No.8207281

I hate when people complain about themed lolita as it makes it more of a costume, when the western comm is dragging lolita into an over-the-top-can-only-afford-or-physically-be-able-to-wear-this-much-stuff-to-a-con only affair, and basically turning it into an alternative to cosplay as far as hobbies go. I flat out switched to otome because when I spend fuck tons of money on clothes, I actually want to wear them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:06:45 2015 No.8207355 >>8207080 This is in no way oldschool and you look like you're wearing a costume. You really spent two years lurking?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:24:50 2015 No.8207446

>>8206596
>>8207281
I already made the same comment, but I'm glad to see people feel the same way.
In an old school thread recently, people were talking about how nobody wears old school anymore because it looks costumy and I was surprised because the over the top, only appropriate for a party outfits are way more costumy than what old school used to be. I don't have a problem with those outfits, but, that's the only thing people are doing these days and I can't believe they could possibly wear that for more than a fee hours and as anything other than party and photo shoot clothes.

I though about leaving Lolita for a long time now. In fact I've quit following all the communities and things, I still lurk here because of the pictures people post sometimes but it won't be long and I'm gonna leave here too I think. I think I might keep several pieces and make old school inspired outfits. Maybe I'll get a few old school dresses in the future too. Just have a small collection to do what I want with. I'd hate to leave the fashion completely.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:37:00 2015 No.8207467 >>8207271 Okay but no matter what you do in life someone will judge you badly for it so maybe you're too concerned with others' opinions.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:43:36 2015 No.8207479

>>8207467
I kind of have to agree with AYRT though. Yes people are gonna judge you in life no matter what, but when you know someone else is going to do it, especially people you're suppose to be sharing a common community with, it's really discouraging. Some random person on the street judging you feels different than someone who you're have some kind of connection to.

But I hate how judgy everyone is, so, hey, take it how you will. Maybe I'm too soft and shouldn't be wearing alt fashion, but I still want to try anyway.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:50:40 2015 No.8207483

>>8206404
>Do you have things that bother you that is generally accepted?

I know it has always been around since the beginning, but I honestly hate "lifestyle" and "daily" lolita. I think it encourages people to be unnecessarily competitive and catty, at least with full brand coords. I'm more tolerant of people who can take budget or offbrand pieces and make toned-down looks with them, because that (to me) illustrates the feasibility of lolita as a fashion and not as "those dresses worn on special occasions." I clearly have a lolita-related wardrobe that's for daily wear (that most people would say isn't 'done up' enough) and a lolita wardrobe that's for meets (my sweet prints and gothic coords).

I don't think most gothic, ott sweet (or any coord with art prints), and ott classic outfits are practical for everyday wear. The thought of having to dryclean or wash these clothes because of the frequency of their use makes my head spin alone. All things considered, there are days when people have chores to do, errands to run, jobs to attend, and sometimes it just can't be done in petticoats. Even most upper middle class normalfags aren't walking around in their brand names everyday.
I guess it's different if one is rich and they don't really have taxing work or household things to worry about, but still.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:00:26 2015 No.8207492

>>8207483
Interesting, I always liked Lolita lifestyle stuff and I never felt like it made people more catty and competitive, but maybe that's just because I'm not that way. In fact that possibility never occurred to me. But I suppose there's competitive people in everything.

I never seen lifestyle Lolita as being the exact same thing as daily Lolita, because you're right there's no way you can wear it everyday unless you don't do anything physical and don't find the clothes uncomfortable. I have some respect for anyone who can wear it daily, but for me and for most people it's not gonna happen.

I thought lifestyle was generally unaccepted though? Is it more accepted? If so I'd be happy because I need some fresh inspiration, there hasn't been any in a long time.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:04:53 2015 No.8207497 >>8207492 I'd say lifestyle is gaining more acceptance, especially with people becoming older in the fashion and securing jobs that give them more financial freedom to dedicate to lolita.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:20:48 2015 No.8207513

>>8207467
I'm not afraid of being judged, but knowing most of the people you share your hobby with will judge you as if you didn't know the rules and knowing the only people who will dare to encourage you to wear it will be tumblrina-itas is very sad.
I just wish lolitas wouldn't care so much and would do their thing.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:26:42 2015 No.8207515

>>8207061
It's a subculture fashion, and one from Japan, and it has very few defining features, so we hold those to heart. Subculture fashions everywhere are defined by a specific look and idea, and people seem to forget that. The rules are necessary in lolita, I think because otherwise people would just start calling any old thing lolita and it would lose it's distinct look.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:28:01 2015 No.8207520

>>8207271
I post mine, blatant blouse-less JSK with bare legs and sometimes lolita shoes, no headdress and I get zero hate. I've never tagged something that breaks the rules lolita though, so it's obvious that I know what is and isn't. I <like> the rules, and want to follow them if I use the tag. But I'm not sure why you think someone would hate on you if you don't try to tag it lolita. Even here, if someone gets posted to the ita thread, someone will usually speak up and say, 'this was not even tagged lolita' and it's dropped.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:29:41 2015 No.8207522

>>8207483
I think the definition of "daily lolita" and "lifestyle lolita" is just to strict in everybody's mind.

To me daily lolita would be wearing it as your "main style", as often as you get to wear it and otherwise have as much of the aesthetic in your life as possible. I wouldn't say a lolita who can't wear her dresses to work or to ride her bike is not a lifestyler.

A lifestyler would have a house full of victorian-esque furniture and household items, would try to wear the cutest version of her work clothes possible and even wear a frilly outfit to do some errands.
Non-lifestylers would be people who wear lolita very infrequently and maybe wear some other styles such as punk, gothic or lazy clothe sjust as often. They wouldn't let the lolita aesthetic dictate their taste outside of lolita, maybe have a very modern or very gothic apartment and just see lolita as a hobby they occasionally enjoy.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:30:03 2015 No.8207523

>>8207520
That's not what she said, did you read the rest of her comments? She said she -wants- to tag stuff that's 'not really lolita' as lolita because -she- feels it's lolita and -she- feels the rules are too constraining and ~not fashion~ or some shit.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:32:41 2015 No.8207528

>>8207515
I don't say the rules are not necessary and you shouldn't follow them, but I think people should be able to wear it intentionally very casually without calling it lolita and not get so much hate.
Outsiders won't differentiate anyway. They will just throw every j-fashion in the same bucket, and they will be the last to differentiate between ita dresses and $400 brand dresses.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:35:23 2015 No.8207530 >>8207523 No I actually meant what she said. But I think you should be able to tag it "casual lolita" or "lolita-esque" or something like this. And by casual lolita I'm talking about the real casual lolta and not the new "everything not-OTT is casual".

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:36:21 2015 No.8207532

>>8207523
That will not fly though, lolita-esque even. You can't use the tag and expect people not to be critical if you aren't following the rules, they search the tag for ~surprise~ lolita outfits (that follow the rules) . That's silly, we do not need to tag everything lolita, or change the way things are tagged. People can't have it both ways. But it's really not as hard as all that unless people try to be snowflakes about it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:37:26 2015 No.8207536

>>8207515
Is there honestly any fashion or subcultures where people go "you're not wearing a mohawk, not punk" or "no combat boots, not skinhead" or "no heavy eyeliner, not goth"? It's more common to exclude people because they don't appear to truly follow the ideas behind a fashion like they are just posers and don't have the spirit. I guess because egl spirit is so poorly defined and it's barely a subculture people have to stick to rules that would seem really silly in other fashions.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:39:30 2015 No.8207539

>>8207530
Casual lolita still follows the rules and lolita-esque just sounds like you are being too lazy to follow the rules. Why would you need to use the lolita term at all for stuff that doesn't follow the rules? If you follow people on tumbler, Instagram, etc, you just get a feel for who posts relaxed rule things and they just don't tag them other than maybe OOTD.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:45:39 2015 No.8207544

'quaintrelle' as a tag used to be a fashion thing, maybe it needs reviving or another specific tag used for 'using lolita items but not making a lolita coord' (and somehow not using the word lolita in the process to make this clear). Could it be done? Would anyone really use it?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 11:17:44 2015 No.8207598

>>8207536
We'd be excluding you because not wearing a petticoat and wearing a plain shirt underneath a main piece goes against the core concept of lolita fashion. A large part of lolita is defined by its silhouette much in the same way that a large part of goth is defined by its colour palette, and not wearing a full skirt and calling it lolita is basically like only wearing bright pastels and calling it goth. It could work theoretically, but ten times out of ten it's just ridiculous. Lolita is premised on a fairly well-defined singular aesthetic that has various variations depending on the substyle that you choose to go with. Lolita as a subculture was not and is not a reactionary movement, so its spirit lies almost exclusively on maintaining a quasi-fairytale princess image through clothing or lifestyle, and that fashion "spirit" is pretty well-defined and is precisely what the rules are in place to maintain.

And really once you get the basics of lolita down (silhouette, ribbons, ruffles, lace, etc.), then the fashion is really a free-for-all so long as a certain level of garment quality is maintained. Right off the top of my head we have Burger-anon and Tudor-anon as people who have done experimental things that were fairly well-received.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 12:14:32 2015 No.8207695

>>8207446
Its costumey in a different sense, mainly because it didnt age well. What gets people thinking it is costumey isnt the styling but the actual garment, which is very of its time of early 2000s.You can see it on the deco lolita stuff too, it was very 'in' while it was popular but now most people who try to pull it off look horrible. I would even say that looking back on outfits that did well then look pretty meh. It is just how fashion evolves.

It doesnt help that there is more and more people who enter this fashion way after old school was a thing, so they are even less likely to see it as lolita because it is so foreign to how they perceive the fashion being.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 12:32:59 2015 No.8207730
File: 983 KB, 245x160, 1413934955451.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8206545
I totally get you on the lifestyle stuff. I absolutely don't believe that someone needs to be into xyz hobbies to be a ~true~ lolita or anything like that but it's a fun extra, you know? My interests in old-fashioned feminine things are what got me into lolita in the first place. Yet in my comm there's this general distaste for it and it's used as an insult more often than "ita" is.

>at craft meet
>most girls have trouble operating their sewing machines with shoes and pettis on so they take them off
>I don't really have an issue sewing in RHS and two pettis so I continue doing my thing
>day after someone comments on FB that they found this impressive/entertaining
>joke that I have trained myself to achieve maximum rori at all times
>another girl starts venting about how you don't need to be able to sew to be lolita, and you don't always have to wear lolita to be lolita, and how lifestyling is "not real" and for losers, etc.
>bunch of others agree with her and the thread devolves into a general lifestyle hating discussion
>wtf did I do

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 12:42:01 2015 No.8207743

>>8207730
That's how I was too! I got interested in Lolita because of my interest in old fashioned feminine stuff. If it wasn't for the lifestyle aspect I would have never gotten into Lolita.
For me the lifestyle stuff is exactly as you say, it just makes it extra fun. People don't have to do it but it's fun to do for me.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 12:45:52 2015 No.8207753

>>8207695
I think I might be less into fashion and more into just having fun with clothes. I've never found myself saying "oh that's so ugly" even if its something outdated or something I don't like, because in it's own way I can see why it's appealing. Especially when fashion almost always comes back around and recycles itself, it doesn't make too much sense to worry about what's trendy or not, because eventually it probably will be or will loose it's trendiness. I think I'm too laid back for Lolita fashion sometimes. I think I might be happier doing other fashions but I can't let Lolita go. I spent too much time dreaming about the style to just give it up now.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 12:47:02 2015 No.8207755

>>8207544

This is what we really need. I'd love to see more lolita pieces incorporated into normalfag fashion. And I don't mean casual lolita, I mean normal fashion. I want to look at pictures of girls in jeans and cute sweaters carrying AP purses, or jsks worn as sundresses.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 15:44:21 2015 No.8208044

>>8207730
That's an unfortunate experience.
but yea I've never seen people being forced into participating in the lifestyle aspects. I don't get why people are so defensive.
>>8207536
well there a lot of girls out there that just want to call themselves Lolita in order to fit in a group

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 16:39:52 2015 No.8208139

>>8206620
>matchy
So much matchy. While waiting for a dress to arrive from LM that I thought was red, black, cream and gold I started making a necklace to go with it and made a beaded chain with bright gold chain, rings and wire with red and black crystals. The dress shows up and the parts I thought were gold are definitely brown. My necklace is still pretty, but an antique gold would look much nicer. But I sat there miserable that I put so much work into a necklace that doesn't match perfectly. After I saw this post I realized how dumb it is to worry about something like that. All my other jewelry pieces will have bright gold, so war doesn't it matter? It's still pretty and I shouldn't get so hung up about absolutely perfect coordinating.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 16:52:02 2015 No.8208158 >>8208139 I'm glad I could help anon Maybe you'll find another use for that necklace!

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:11:51 2015 No.8208185 File: 293 KB, 1000x1500, tumblr_nlkh452b3K1qfvrzvo1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>8207755 You get that a lot in Japanese street fashion. If you look into brand tags they usually turn up. She's wearing an AP bag and Meta shoes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:12:58 2015 No.8208188 >>8207281 alanah is that you

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:21:32 2015 No.8208196

>>8207528
>Outsiders [...] will be the last to differentiate between ita dresses and $400 brand dresses

Can we just scrap this notion already? It's a blatant lie. I've known people who wouldn't be able to tell between lolita and the man in the moon, and they still react positively to well-presented girls in nice outfits, and feel embarrassed for weebs in awkward outfits made of cheap materials.

There is a certain amount of objectivity here. Lolita is unusual to people unfamiliar with it. Itas are awkward and sad.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:33:49 2015 No.8208212

>>8207598
>Lolita as a subculture was not and is not a reactionary movement

What no.
It has always been a backlash against the sexual objectification of women, and the pressure on little girls to grow up and become young women... and then the pressure on young women to settle down and put their careers and family first.
You could say it's a selfish movement, but it's not a harmful kind of selfish. The key spirit of the subculture is the refusal to discard the self-worth and artistic appreciation instilled in us as children. To try and provide for ourselves the ideals the world promised us before taking it away and demanding that we settle for disposable fast fashion and office jobs.

tl;dr: We do so have an ethos, it's just inwardly focused.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:38:34 2015 No.8208224 >>8206986 does your tumblr url start with an s and end with a g? i saw you post a coord and it was v similar to that

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:46:01 2015 No.8208234 >>8208212 I think some of us just like nice clothes.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:51:33 2015 No.8208246

>>8208234
I've never figured out where they get this "backlash against the sexual objectification" and pressure on women stuff from. Is there some lolita fashion manifesto floating around out there that I don't know about?

Most of the people I've seen that actively try to politicize lolita are SJW garbage that insist that everything they like is totally feminist and empowering.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:52:23 2015 No.8208249

>>8208234
Well yeah I'd say the majority of us, in fact, like nice clothes. But you can't deny that when you wear them out, the world reacts differently to you. And it's precisely because lolita is a visual "fuck you" to society's expectations.
That's why it started in the first place.
It gained momentum and endured because it's pretty.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 17:57:05 2015 No.8208256

>>8208212
Sure, there were some amongst the early adopters that viewed lolita fashion this way, and some still do. Many people just wear the fashion because they like the aesthetics, not because of some arbitrary ideas of empowerment.

Trying to make universal statements about people's motivation to wear clothing is dumb, especially when it has become more popular. I mean, women coming to wear pants commonly back in the day was linked to the sexual revolution and second wave feminism, but that doesn't mean all women wearing jeans today are doing it to feel empowered.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 18:01:30 2015 No.8208262

>>8208246
Well there's an element of Thesis Mumbo Jumbo to it, I'm aware. But it came from interviews with girls who wore the style in the early days. When asked why, most said things like "I have no interest in growing up", "I don't want to end up like my mother's generation", "I don't feel comfortable in the revealing clothes my peers find fashionable" and so on.
And you still hear that today, especially here. Just look at seagulls' contempt for people wearing yoga pants and Uggs, working low-level jobs, AGING?
All you need to do is look at these statements and ask "why is that?" and you end up back at "societal dissatisfaction".

We're all unhappy about something. So a lot of us fix that with clothes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 18:07:17 2015 No.8208268 >>8208234 Theres lots of nice clothes out there... A dougt a person would choose to spend money on Lolita just because "they like nice clothes"

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 18:08:41 2015 No.8208270

>>8208256
Off course not, I'm not claiming to have every single person who wears lolita figured out. In fact I would've been part of the "I just like these clothes because they look nice" group initially. But as time progressed I learned about the political and social undertones of the fashion, and I agree with them.

But the person I first replied to seemed to be saying that lolita has no core belief system in comparison to other subcultures, when that's not true.

Like in Goth, for every person who loves the music, literature and lifestyle, you have one more who just likes black and looking sad or spooky.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 19:31:27 2015 No.8208411

I miss the egl livejournal being super active (and the offshoot comms like daily_lolita etc). The facebook comms are awful, and I rarely see decent discussions taking place, whereas there are lj threads I've gone back and re-read because they were so good.

I think (and will probably sound like a special snowflake for it) that lolita is getting way too popular. I don't mean that in a "I feel less unique now!" sort of way, but the more people who enter the fashion, the more watered down it seems to get. It doesn't feel like a subculture anymore, and I feel tumblr has really contributed to the excessive competitiveness i.e. photographing every single outfit, having OTT photoshoots etc. It's all so ridiculous to me. It's like people have forgotten it's a street fashion and not a costume or persona. I'm not expressing myself very well but I don't like the direction the community as a whole is going in.

Oh and I miss old school. And even how sweet lolita looked maybe 5 years ago. Whenever I see photos from the big lolita events I can't help but feel I'm not even looking at lolitas because of how much the style has evolved.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 19:37:33 2015 No.8208421

>>8208411
There was talk of returning to EGL during January but it never got off the ground. Lots of people hate the FB groups and some say they wish EGL was active again but no one does anything about it. I think it would take a group of people pledging to post regular themed discussion topics, news, releases etc., there to get people interested again. And rewriting a good lolita handbook there, not on tumblr.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 20:31:14 2015 No.8208516

>>8208411
All kinds of ditto anon.

I feel a little sad and disheartened when I see what lolita fashion has become, or perhaps more accurately, when I observe the current, most dominant driving force behind it. I know I risk bringing up the tired 'before it was cool' type arguments with this viewpoint but hear a girl out. Something becoming popular in itself isn't an issue for me, more the merrier I say, however I do get the impression that some people have lost sight of the somewhat rebellious elements that originally underpinned the fashion. I don't think you have to have alt girl swagger in order to be authentic, real, or any of that shit; it's more that lolita fashion over time seems to have absorbed so many of the more unsavoury traits associated with the fashion industry as a whole, where endless consumption rather than freedom of expression is at its very heart.

I really don't believe fashion is necessarily just impermanent, self-aggrandising ugliness like its harshest critiques often claim. Fashion can also be observed appearing in unlikely places, even under oppressive regimes, times of difficulty and hardship. I'd even go as far to say that fashion correlates to a very basic need for humanity and freedom. Lolita fashion however in part, seems to have fallen victim to being taken over by some of the very things its original practitioners were trying to break away from.

If fashion can exist as a form of expression to those that choose to embrace it, then I really think that the lolita fashion movement could benefit from rediscovering and drawing on the very qualities that brought it into existence in the first place, rather than its value and presence mostly being measured in terms of acquisitions and tightly controlled self-promotion.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 20:37:03 2015 No.8208520

>>8208516

Just to add, I also miss the early days of egl on livejournal, back when so many people would make their own clothing, and where they were able to get hold of a branded item, it would be cherished and worn a again and again. We revelled in finding a community where we could express everything we loved about the fashion. So many of the early lolitas maybe had a handful of garments that they would mix and match, and then make additional pieces and accessories where/if they were able to. What I often see now is a bunch of people that just consume and consume, take a few photos of their outfits to post online and then rinse and repeat. I look back at the early lolita fashion movement with a sort of oldfag nostalgia, wishing the days of bonding over our interests rather than the latest hoard o' stuff to show off and compare, was still the prevailing force.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 21:04:31 2015 No.8208540

>>8206441
I love sweet (not much the recent lots of chiffon, layers and lace of nowadays) but i feel punk is always left behind and if someone try a coord even a good one is labelled ita. I love more punk than gothic lolita, but i think i have only to stick into gothic and sweet because punk... really is still dead. I hope for a comeback!

Also, i miss the days when lolita was more into lifestyle things and outfits were more simple and also casual lolita was still considered lolita and not incomplete or ita. I miss cutsews, i find them cuter and confier than blouses, also useful for daily. Now, lolita is too much OTT for my taste that look more than an expensive cosplay or costume than a street fashion or something wearable outside meets or cons. I notice most people wear only lolita at meets, maybe because the fashion become so OTT that is impossible to wear it daily considering the latest designs. I struggle to find brand new (taobao for example) simple pieces....
>mfw i want to wear sweet as Kera magazines, with punk elements that look more confier and suitable for everyday even if not really lolita

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 21:20:16 2015 No.8208551 >>8206706 Really....

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 21:48:31 2015 No.8208583

>>8208516
>>8208520
You said it a lot more eloquently than I could. It's almost become a caricature of what it once was.

I think the fact that noobs aren't learning about lolita through egl anymore has helped to bring this change. Nobody knows the history of the fashion, they cringe at even the nicest old school coordinates, and they have no perspective of the fashion outside of the photos of e-famous girls on tumblr. The emphasis on self promotion and status really bothers me. When people complain now about not fitting in with their local comms I'm honestly not surprised. So many of the subscultural aspects of the fashion have been forgotten or remain unknown to the newcomers that it seems there’s less likely to be any common ground between community members.

I completely agree—there is a heavily consumerist element that I don’t feel was there before (well, certainly not to its current extent) and it’s a little unnerving to witness. Still, I am glad to know there are others who feel a similar way, and I kinda have this romantic vision of us all somehow getting together and having our own little oldie comm where we can approach lolita in the way we used to. It would be great to get egl thriving again for a start. It would take a concentrated effort, but I still have hope.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 27 01:48:07 2015 No.8208977 >>8207080 I'm seriously amazed at how nice /cgl/ is being about this. You look like absolute shit, this is the kind of trash that gets posted in the ita thread unanimously. Also, you have to be 18 to post here.

Anonymous Fri Mar 27 02:01:32 2015 No.8208997

>>8207080
It doesnt fit you and your petti is coming out the bottom.
tbh you just like some gross weeb with that badly dyed hair and weird pigtails.
And your shoes arent even trying to be lolita? They're legit mom loafers.
You look more like a black house servant than anything else jfs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 27 03:38:51 2015 No.8209137 >>8207080 Your face is little long for twin tails. Try puffing out your hair more for volume. A big defined face with thin, no volume hair can easily look ratty. If you had a full apron you'd look pretty close to Lolita via origin time(80's).

Anonymous Fri Mar 27 09:16:42 2015 No.8209378

>>8208583
I never noticed that consumerist element until you guys brought it up.
Wow, I could never point out why I was so unhappy with modern Lolita, but this is exactly it. It's a bit sad to see this happening. I think LJ dying is probably one of the bigger culprits too.

Anonymous Fri Mar 27 12:41:48 2015 No.8209681

I am sick to death at how hating on sweet/ott sweet is a 2edgy4you bandwagon a lot of girls are jumping on. If you don't like a style, fucking get over yourself and don't worry about it. Focus on what you like. I don't like sweet myself but ragging on it in nearly every thread is getting old.

As for trends, I feel like the potato sac dresses (namely, the Baby dresses with high waists and extra long skirts, making it look like an actual sack) are ugly as hell and girls look like fat baby dolls in them, especially with bonnets. You can really only pull it off if you are a tiny, skinny waif.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 27 13:10:46 2015 No.8209740 >>8209378 If you go to egl, most girls totting up their wardrobes have at most 20-30 main pieces in 2010, what happened?

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 13:42:28 2015 No.8211928

>>8209681
Finally someone that gets it! Before sweet was the main style that most lolita wore now if you like some AP pastel print with animals or toys, bam... ageplayer while some years ago no one gave a shit about that it doesn't matter if they wore sweet, classic or gothic. I love sweet and especially the most pastel vomit prints and i feel pissed to be labelled as an ageplayer if i want to wear them. I dislike the potato frilly sack dresses as well, they don't look good on anyone except some asian thin models. I'm petite but i bet i would like like utter shit with these sack jsks. Please someone stop this trend, i'm tired to see these with too long saggy skirts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 13:43:31 2015 No.8211930 >>8206404 All I know is I wish that off-the-shoulder was more common.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 14:16:07 2015 No.8212036

>>8208583
I wonder if it'd be a good idea to redirect conversations on Rufflechat to egl (post something there and link it to RC). I was thinking about digging up some articles and printed sources for younger lolitas to read and discover on their own.

Maybe we should have a throw back Thursday thread in addition to the Monday/Friday Free for Alls, where people can share images of what lolita used to be like (including videos and such). It might be more feasible than trying to make a new livejournal account (there's already a tumblr for old school lolita).

Like one anon said, I don't mind that lolita has gotten popular and younger people are getting into it, and that it has evolved (honestly, as endearing the frumpy old school looks were, I prefer the more structured guidelines of today). My concern is also that these new comers won't know where the roots of the fashion lie. A lot of people who've been involved for as long as I have aren't as active in the fashion as they used to be for many reasons (ex: career, fallen interest, raising families, and etc.). I don't know how long I'll decide to stay involved, but I'd want to share my knowledge and experience while I can.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:21:44 2015 No.8212373 >>8206620 In me days sweet lolita were wearing black shoes with their pink frilly dresses and not a single damn was given now it's all "oh heavens, that shade is a little darker/lighter ughghgh good lawd"

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:26:58 2015 No.8212380

>>8212373
Also back in the days lolita was much more about being yourself,having a good time,wearing frilly shit,... now it's a contest to who is the kawaiiest of them all,has the most glorious brand from japan,is the most popular,... and some girls in their pony vomit headdress bashing handmade and oldschool that are the fucking roots of lolita. Also much more bashing and complicating things "oh baw she's too fat/ugly/..." and making stupid rules,... /cgl/ kinda disgusts me for this point, you can assume i am someone "fat and ugly" all you want for saying this but lolitas themselves ruined the fashion.
I am a lone lolita though so it doesn't affect me much but it makes me very sad and bitter when i see how it has become, sure drama and bitching always existed and wank sites too, but it sure as hell increased and we get much more dramallama and baww for nothing than before.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:29:02 2015 No.8212383

>>8212380
Sorry for the triple post but also we used gto have so many communities and forums before when it was kinda more obscure, now i feel like lolita isn't as new and exciting as before it's becoming a LOT more mainstream, and communities/forums have died all we have left is...facebook groups.
A part of lolita has died for me.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:31:41 2015 No.8212389

>>8212380
Listen, I agree with half of what you say here, but I think that too many rules is still better than the 'everything can be lolita if you believe' shit that tumblrinas spout, and tumblr is what gave the mindset of being the most kawaii instagram whore of them all to the community.

I mean lolita has always been about self-expression, but within the boundaries of the fashion, and lolita has boundaries.

Actually, in writing that I just realized that I think boundaries is a better word for it than rules. The difference between what is lolita and what is not lolita are how it falls in the boundary of what the fashion looks like. Outfits themselves have boundaries as to what looks good, not really rules. If anyone wants to brainstorm over this idea, I think this is an easier way of implementing the idea of the distinct look that lolita has.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:34:00 2015 No.8212396 >>8212380 I'm a guy so I'm not sure of what worth my input is, but I'll give it anyway. The women in lolita are too confrontational. You hate each other too much. You need to calm the fuck down.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:38:20 2015 No.8212407

>>8207080
I really like your hair colour, i don't like the pigtails on you and in general but the colour damn...
I would maybe suggest a less dramatic eye makeup (more natural), your face is pretty and slim and that blush under the eyes suits you nicely. That outfit isn't lolita at all even by old school standards though so you should change that also? those shoes and thighs do not work at all with lolita too. Overall it looks costumey

>lelel this is ita tier u a gross weeb
this is why i don't go often on /cgl/ a lot of people are being sandy cunts, i don't ask for you to sugarcoat it but don't pour your rage of not getting laid or idk into some random anons, you can be...idk...actually nice and not acting like a cunt without sugarcoating???
I often picture rude/bitchy /cgl/ users like buttfrustrated females being sad which probably is the case?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:41:10 2015 No.8212412 >>8212407 i don't entirely get what you're trying to say, but you're being extremely bitchy and assuming things about people and it makes you seem like the exact kind of person you seem to dislike.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:41:18 2015 No.8212413 Is dolly kei dead? What does /cgl/ think of it?

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:42:22 2015 No.8212415

>>8212396
this exactly. i am a girl tho and i just like to lurk but seriously they need to just soothe their boobs there is so much hate and butthurt and drama and some of them take it wayyy too seriously, idk just stop bitching and whining over nothing and you'll be more happy this way gals, just my two cents.
i used to be a really bitter bitchy /cgl/ user addicted to drama and i was so sad in real life but since a year i've changed and i'm way more happy this way

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:44:15 2015 No.8212417 >>8212412 what do you not get? english isn't my first language so i mayyyy have made mistakes. maybe the language barrier makes me sound bitchy bc it wasn't on purpose so sorry if you took it this way anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:44:40 2015 No.8212419 >>8212415 I think when they find husbands/fiances/and have kids, they change. Women sort of need that family in place to stop being so drama obsessed. A baby helps with that.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 17:48:14 2015 No.8212429
File: 138 KB, 1280x720, 1421136495677.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8206404
I think Facebook groups gave the online community a very different feeling, and one that honesty makes me not want to be a part of it. I mean, fair, there was always the odd bit of drama over on LJ, but since it was separate from FB I guess it wasn't in my face all the time. The LJ format is great for the EGL community, and it's a shame it's seen as outdated. I loved the idea of knowing people by their screen names, and being able to talk to people without actually showing your face, or indeed, your Facebook profile.

With the fashion itself, I've stopped posting outfit posts online. I made myself feel horribly inferior because my coords weren't OTT enough to get notes or likes or comments or whatever. I started thinking that I looked bad because I wasn't wearing every accessory I owned at once, and didn't care much for convention fads. I've started to enjoy the fashion a lot more by engaging with the community less. I want to start wearing much more old-school stuff, without feeling under pressure to adhere to meetup themes, and instead just meeting up with a few people I'm actually friends with who wear it. I guess I'm getting crotchety at the ripe old age of my early twenties and I just have very little interest in meetups with people I don't know, regardless of how many photos are taken or how fancy tea is. It's sort of funny because I've started going to cons and doing Lolita Fashion talks, which is a fairly sociable thing to do, and even introducing new girls to the comm. Idk man.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 18:53:00 2015 No.8212573

>>8212419
nigga...

>>8212429
Man, are you me? I still sometimes have those feeling of inferiority since I prefer hunting for older, simpler pieces (and coordinate rather simply) instead of splurging on the latest reserve. It's funny how irl, people tend to crowd around the lolita with the latest, most coveted print. My state's main community are nice people, but aside of distance, I'm only friends with a handful of people there and I'm way more comfortable with friends closer to home. I like the idea of just hanging out with people I share similar interests with, but happen to be out in frills and doing something cute and/or fancy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 21:18:03 2015 No.8212905 >>8212429 >I guess I'm getting crotchety at the ripe old age of my early twenties Man all dem feels and you are barely twenty? I think you should gtfo the internet.

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 21:26:55 2015 No.8212922

>>8212396
cgl isn't the lolita community. You sound like my boyfriend, he thinks lolitas are all horrible dramamongerers because I tell him drama stories because that's what's interesting. Posts and topics about how we all had fun and got along aren't interesting, and people who spend most of their time having fun and being nice aren't on here posting and complaining
>tldr it's all perception
honestly from years on here I've realized a lot of the bitchers are either new lolitas, shitty lolitas and/or not even part of their local community. or trolls
>>8212380
>lolita used to be about having fun now it's shit
You sound new
>I am a lone lolita
Well there's your problem, what makes you think you know anything? If I had a quarter for every lone lolita who wanted to make broad observations and pass judgement on the rest of us that actually participate in the community, I'd have a lot more burando. You all are the lolita equivalent of girls who don't hang out with other girls because "other girls are too catty - not me though, I'm different!"

Anonymous Sat Mar 28 21:31:10 2015 No.8212932

>>8212429
You know, I actually see a lot of simple outfits that get plenty of notes and likes. Not as much as the OTT ones, but why is that a surprise? Why SHOULD they? OTT is more visually interesting, it's like bringing cookies to a meetup and complaining that everyone wants to eat cake instead. It doesn't mean people hate cookies.
That you blame your own insecurity on "not wearing every accessory I own at once" speaks volumes about you. Not even going into the age thing. You need to get over yourself. The problems are with YOU, not the community, not everyone else.
But whatever, do what makes you happy I guess.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 28 23:54:30 2015 No.8213247 >>8206404 i think lolis are all gay

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 06:22:54 2015 No.8213757 >>8207281 hi alanah

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 06:39:51 2015 No.8213775 >>8212419 hahahahaha >implying moms don't gossip with and bout other moms while waiting for their kids to go out of schools.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 06:56:09 2015 No.8213792

>>8212932
>Why SHOULD they? OTT is more visually interesting, it's like bringing cookies to a meetup and complaining that everyone wants to eat cake instead.
Pretty sure that's the attitude OP was talking about.
I've seen a lot of simple coords get notes, sure, but I've seen just as many posted to ita or nitpick threads with comments like 'needs more accessories, boring'.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 06:56:23 2015 No.8213793 >>8212419 haha oh honey no only thing that'll change is my BMI

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 06:56:43 2015 No.8213794
File: 146 KB, 400x640, tumblr_n2qtwdui5q1qzxxslo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8212932
>OTT is more visually interesting
Something visually busy isn't necessarily always more interesting to look at. If you want to be extreme I find the attached picture 10 times more interesting than any decora streetsnap. And for a less extreme comparison take OTT lolita versus Decora.
>it's like bringing cookies to a meetup and complaining that everyone wants to eat cake instead
It's more like Sashimi versus Sukiyaki. Both of them are interesting and tasty.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 07:37:05 2015 No.8213832 >>8212932 This is why I dislike the OTT crowd. You think you are oh so superior. Just because you think it's more interesting looking doesn't mean is. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it's you love.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:56:47 2015 No.8214855 >>8213794 This is a masterpiece of restrained simplicity - fuckin' saved, as they say. Anyone know where I can pick up a dress like this? I'm in love, seriously.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 19:53:16 2015 No.8214934

>>8212419
It's funny how delusional you are, i dislike drama or gossiping about people and i'm usually a loner, asocial and not caring about what people do. Also, a baby doesn't help at all to being less drama bitch or people change their personality, hell i won't change my clothing or hobbies even if i have a kid but i'm too selfish to have one.... I would get worse with a kid, i'm sure of it.
>>8212396
Anon, this is /cgl/... what you would expect? Here there are too many trolls or hateful lolitas but hopefully also good ones that don't shitpost about "nitpicks, this must be moar OTT, boring, fatty" and so on.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 20:47:52 2015 No.8215028

To be honest, I have mixed feelings about Lolita in general. I adore the style and when i wear it, i feel better than i have done in my whole life, i get to be beautiful and elegant and i get such a rush when i see peoples reactions. It's changed my life and given me more confidence that i could ever have imagined myself having.
However.
While i have never been on the receiving end of any hate, i go find the online community, in particular CGL to be very cut throat and harsh. I feel people are overly mean to people for no other reason bar they are anon and can get away with it.
In person, My comm is quite lovely but i know as soon as they come on here they rip each other apart like a pack of wild dogs.
It's kind of sobered my feelings on being part of the Lolita community, while i will not stop wearing the fashion I've been stepping further and further away from the community and become more of a lone Lolita with a few close friends i have made whom have similar feelings towards the bitterness and anger expressed on places like CGL.

For a fashion made to be elegant and graceful, it really brings out very harsh and UN-elegant behavior from some people.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 20:55:20 2015 No.8215057

>>8212396

Nah, I think the problem is that we're not confrontational enough and that we let steam off about it on an anonymous board.

Sort of like every other hobby if you travel around the hobby boards on 4chan.

And then of course you are generalising off of a 4chan board. What's here probably doesn't represent what everyone thinks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 20:57:54 2015 No.8215060 >>8212419 Um, one of the biggest comedy stereotypes is the nasty, simpering, gossipy middle aged white mom. Mom, as in, woman with kids and family.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 20:58:57 2015 No.8215062 I hate that lolita is becoming more and more associated with extreme SJW ideals and "activism"

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:00:55 2015 No.8215067

>>8207080
you made the torso too long so it looks like a poorly constructed panto dame costume and you needed a heavier fabric for the apron you don't wanna be seeing hem through the other side
also hunny those socks and shoes? even brand new itas aren't that bad

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:07:26 2015 No.8215077

I feel like the community is in limbo. You have extremes, generally, in this community-- tumblr, facebook, and cgl. There are extremes of how invasive being involved in the community is on any particular site (cgl being anonymous, facebook is personal, tumblr also leaning towards personal). Also in how each community acts (cgl is aggressive, tumblr is passive aggressive, facebook is passive).

I feel like LJ is in itself just a dated platform. I've had one for a long time, and it's just not user friendly compared to other social networking sites. I think this opinion is shared mostly by the younger gen, and you can complain about it, but the end all is that no one is using it like they used to. There's a reason for it. And now there is no good alternative for the kind of community that egl had-- none of these other groups are balanced enough for it. More or less, I just think there needs to be a new site that people are willing to migrate to, but it has yet to happen. And until then, we still have to clamor about with our current choices.

I don't like any of the current communities. Tumblr isn't all that great for having discussion. Facebook just feels weird and personal. And cgl? Considering most of the time people have to put a disclaimer before they comment something ("inb4 someone calls me an SJW--" and etc), I think it's telling that people feel constantly attacked on here. No balance.

I don't think that the new gen of lolita is just consumerist and mindless, that just sounds stupid to assume of people, but it generally seems to have to do with the social media being used (not to mention technology change over time). The platform is different, so connecting isn't like it used to be. Maybe later there will be a better place for lolitas to congregate on a site, but each try has kind of bombed, right? I don't hear about Lacebook anymore, and idk where other people are going nowadays.

tl;dr, we need a push to move somewhere but i doubt people will go back to LJ

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:09:33 2015 No.8215080 >>8207061 I must agree with this post. I am a "brolita" who loves the fashion, but I must admit that the "rules" are limiting the fashion too much, almost to the point of turning the fashion into a uniform.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:13:51 2015 No.8215088 >>8215077 Lacebook could have worked if they hadn't been such idiots about it, that's what annoys me. It could have been so good.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:14:34 2015 No.8215090

I'm getting sick of the whole "/cgl/ is full of drama mongering bitches it's literally the worst thing ever how could you go there" schtick i get every time /cgl/ gets mentioned in a conversation outside of this board. They always try to make the board sound like it's just one giant ita thread while completely ignoring things like mail, ebay/taobao/offbrand, draw, hair/makeup, region/geographic location, brand discussion, and coord help threads. /cgl/ helped me grow a lot as a lolita and it hurts when outsiders dismiss us entirely because they only see our worst side.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:29:54 2015 No.8215124

>>8208411
I like how Lolita is gaining popularity, but I am disappointed by the hate in the comms and the threads, especially for efforts that are ita because of a lousy pose, slightly-mismatched socks/tights, not-enough poof in the petti, boob-loaf, etc. Lolita should be fun, but it is scary when a person's picture turns up in these threads with a massive amount of hate comments.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:30:53 2015 No.8215127

>>8215090
>>8215077

This. When I started, I came here religiously and found it to be super-helpful. But now that I no longer feel like I need help, there's not much else besides shopping and general threads if you're not up for being dragged down that day.

When I'm interested in something I tend to be pretty obsessive about it and like to have an outlet to talk about or share things related to it. Probably due to being so ADD. Try as I might to avoid this place because it goes through phases of great threads to shitty ones, I keep coming back because I feel like there's nowhere else to go.

Almost all the lolitas I know IRL are wonderful to be around and discuss things with. I just feel like the whole community is just being eaten alive by bored little tryhard shitlords at least in recent years. There's always been drama, there's always been vocal people with strong opinions who voice them anonymously. I just feel like I can't go anywhere for sane level-headed discussion outside my own friends list on facebook.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:43:40 2015 No.8215151 >>8211928 I love the old-school styles, especially Sweet. I also love Fairy Kei. To me, being creative with the fashion was fun, and fun was what Lolita is about (without ANY bullying and negativity). I also love the femininity of Lolita fashion.

Anonymous Sun Mar 29 21:45:31 2015 No.8215155

>>8215127
I agree so much. And while >>8215090 is true, I don't look down on people for saying cgl is shit. I can only come here in waves when I feel especially like I want to talk about lolita or consume related content, but cgl has a tendency for bringing some people down after a while. It is very helpful, I feel like I've learned so much, but I would trade it for a different community any day if it were balanced. Which is, imo, the biggest problem. I want a place where people can speak their mind, concrit, but aren't giant assholes about it. It's exhausting on here, but Tumblr and Facebook simply will not accept concrit half the time, and it's frustrating.

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/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL