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/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

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7893195 No.7893195 [Reply] [Original]

Lolitas, please help me. I'm trying to do two art pieces on lolita for my advanced art class and I'm struggling so hard. My feminist teacher wants me to focus it on how society "infantizes" young women, but I wanted to paint something that showed Lolita as separate from ageplay or the book, and instead showed what lolita really is.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do here? I really just wanted to paint a lolita surrounded by things from some sweet lolita prints, and another similar one but with classic lolita. I was joking with some people about drawing a Lolita doing "mature" things like grocery shopping or being a business woman, but it's not really something I'd want to paint.

>> No.7893212

Lolita doesn't infantize anyone. If your teacher was a real feminist she would accept that some people like to dress in a feminine way and not shit over anyone who doesn't follow her specific ideals of feminism.

I think drawing lolitas doing everyday things like grocery shopping, waiting at the bus stop and even at bars will be good. It is fine to paint us in mystical settings but in the end we live in the world just like everybody else and cant go into some world full of frills and ruffles and lace.

>> No.7893228

>>7893195
Hm, this is interesting. Your idea is good, but you don't want to draw it? what do you want to draw?
My first thought was how a lot of people describe lolita as their "armor" that makes them feel more confident. Maybe you could do something that conveys that?

>> No.7893232

You could draw lolitas being parts of nature, showing that the fashion is it's own, organic thing. Have a lolita laying in flowers that her dress and body slowly become a part of. A lolita stepping out of a tree, but some of her body and dress are still part of the tree.

>> No.7893233

>>7893195
No toys or teddies or ponies or anything stupid like that.

Your feminist teacher might be amused by the concept of purposely dressing in a way men dislike? I've never in my life had a guy like the way I dress. In fact they hate it, they're angry its not sexy and showing off my body etc.

Lolita as a form of rebellion against modern standard of what it means to be attractive and beautiful. which always revolves around being attractive TO MEN.

Idk, it might make everyone happy?

>> No.7893242

>I really just wanted to paint a lolita surrounded by things from some sweet lolita prints

That if anything might make people make the connection between lolita and ageplay depending on the print you choose, it's a really bad idea.

I really agree with >>7893212
Drawing lolitas doing every day things might not be as fun, but it gives a really blunt message that it's not about anything but expressing yourself through clothing

>> No.7893243

>>7893195
Maybe paint some sweet lolitas having fun together, but being a range of ages or something? Or lolitas from different styles hanging out together?

>>7893212
I like this idea. Maybe a piece featuring a lolita on the runway, and one on the streets or something? It depends on what you think 'lolita really is'. Do you want to emphasise it is a fashion? a hobby?

>> No.7893246

>>7893195
Ew Infantilazation of the fashion is why I have nothing to do with Lolitas.

I saw an OTT girl with a giant lollipop and a stuffed alpaca win a contest and I just noped the fuck out of the fashion...sort of. I still wear it but...in my head I'm not one of you lol when asked I describe what I'm going for and never bring up the fashion and I don't do meet-ups, cons etc.

>> No.7893251

>>7893246
Cool story

>> No.7893253
File: 58 KB, 510x448, cool story bro.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893253

>>7893246

>> No.7893257

Why not do a sweet lolita in a tea place? Or a cafe eating cake? It brings in the sweet stuff but it is also realistic and something that is common to do at meets.

If you are able, you can do a classic lolita in a museum, and then reference the trend of paintings as prints on the dresses. The girl looking at the real painting of what she is wearing.

>> No.7893264

>>7893251
There was actually a secret on btb made of the girl, and I was expecting the comm to be appalled but everyone defended it and that's the what did it Lol

To be fair, I never really did mee-ups or cons it's not my thing. And I have always found it easier to describe the point of fashion than tell people its name which all it does is confuse them. So really the only thing that that girl changed is me perceving myself as a lolita.

>> No.7893270

>>7893195
To me what makes women "infantile" is telling them what they should and shouldn't be wearing, hovering over them like they don't have sovereign over their bodies and can't understand social constructs like the adults they are.

I think you should do a comic strip: Do a really decked out sweet lolita walking down the street and a bunch of people making fun of her for "dressing like a baby" or "bo peep," and then in another few panels have her do things considered "adult" outside of when she wears lolita. Like working a really demanding job, being studious on the side, paying bills, driving, or maybe even taking care of a family on top of all that. Show how judgmental people are in society and that people are more complex and have much higher needs than what they choose to wear from day to day.

>> No.7893273
File: 112 KB, 500x600, iWMyWPU.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893273

>>7893253
>>7893251
Dropped pic

The Halloween costume shoes are the icing on the cake.

>> No.7893276

The whole point of lolita, at its inception, was that Japanese women when they get older are supposed to give up their independent lives to take care of children and a family, not take care of themselves, much less dress themselves in any fashion they want.

Lolita means that instead of taking care of a family, the woman wearing it can "infantalize" themselves, or display themselves as a young maiden without adult responsibilities, as if to say to society "I'm not going to give up my interests and myself to 'grow up' and do something 'proper' like have a family." there's empowerment in saying "Fuck you society I can't take care of myself like an adult and I refuse to take on the traditional role of taking care of a family." It's like selfishness but in a prideful, cute way.

So in this case, the self "infantalization" (which isn't even truly infantilization but I can't think of a better word for it) is empowering because it comes not from society but from self-display and through wearing these hyperfeminine artifacts (clothes).

To clarify, I read this in someone's dissertation, she did it on "Maiden Imagery" and the images of maidenhood in Japan, and discussed lolita as a sort of feminist idea that Japanese women wanted to pursue without it being really "feminist" since Japanese women for the most part don't really understand gender inequality. She graduated from the University of Western Ontario I think a year or two ago, my google-fu is failing me but it's an interesting read and you can find it online.

>> No.7893278

>>7893264
> there was actually a secret I made on bob
Fixed

>> No.7893280

Maybe do two pieces, one of a Lolita and one of a woman in normal "American bar fashion".
Show how the Lolita, despite her clothing is the freer, less infantilized one, while having the one in the mature clothes being reduced to a child in the eyes of the viewer.
The Lolita is strong because she chooses her own path... The sexy woman is weaker because she conforms to society's desires and caters to others.
Bonus points if they are the same character/woman. Have her break the chains of society and be free as a Lolita... since she's pleasing herself in her dreams and modesty, while she's pleasing men in the mature/ sexy clothes.
>Surprise art reversal?!

>> No.7893284

>>7893233
What kind of faggots were you hanging out with?

>> No.7893285

>>7893195
Wow tell your art teacher to shove off. Your opinion on a societal matter is what you want to express in an art, that's the point of doing contemporary art.

>> No.7893286

>>7893276
>Lolita means that instead of taking care of a family, the woman wearing it can "infantalize" themselves, or display themselves as a young maiden without adult responsibilities

Sort of agree, I would take it further: Why not display yourself as a young maiden with cash to blow on beautiful dresses because you decided that having a family isn't for you at the moment or not something you desire despite being told that it's what you're supposed to do?
Just because a young woman doesn't have four crotchfruits by the age of 25 doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have her own set of responsibilities.

>> No.7893288

>>7893270
No no.

It this makes it look like more of a costume/fetish thing. Like she puts it on just to be degrated then goes home and is normal.

I'm down to see her paying the bills etc IN lolita. Lolita is a fashion to me, not a costume for cons etc.

>> No.7893291

>>7893286
>crotchfruit
Omg, I almost choked on my drink.

>> No.7893294

>>7893284
Not desperate nerd con goers that's for sure.

>> No.7893295

>>7893233

Talk for yourself. My ex loved that shit. Some guys are into it, some guys hate it, some are meh about the whole thing.

>> No.7893296

>>7893273
I think the bonnet is the icing on the cake.

>> No.7893299

You should be doing something much more mature that showcases your abilities for an advanced art class. Your idea is going to do the exact opposite of your intentions.
I agree with doing a life drawing of a lolita just doing normal things.

No offense, but the idea you want to do sounds like something I would see a lot on deviant art.

>> No.7893302

>>7893286
oh, totally, I agree. An interesting thing was in her dissertation she interviewed the designers/owners of Mary Magdalene, and some shop girls at different stores like Baby, and one of the shop girls actually went to law school but instead of becoming a lawyer, she wanted to work at Baby instead even though the pay wasn't good. In that sense she's given a view into the agency of this woman and her career choices, so it was really interesting to learn.

The designers though, she outlines how they make clothing with the hopes of their fans liking it and appreciating it even though it's a difficult undertaking and they don't actually make much money from selling their designs. But they have a responsibility to their fans to make clothing they'll like.

Talking about the business aspects of it and the work women do to afford lolita is just as important as the origin of it as refusal to take on family responsibilities. She outlines these women as having priorities different from "typical" Japanese women, and apart from what their parents or family wanted for them to do with their lives, and I really appreciated that.

>> No.7893305

OP, I think you should focus on the friendship part of lolita, or at least how it can bring people together. Showing female friendship could placate your feminist teacher and exclude the ageplay part. Maybe have one piece of a lone lolita doing something everyday, and another of a bunch having fun together?

>>7893286
>crotchfruits
Why is that term so funny... I'm gonna start using sometime. You also make a good point.

>>7893264
>not understanding that people were mocking you

>> No.7893306

>>7893295
I'm making a pretty accurate generalazation. YOU should talk for yourself. Your boyfriend is the exception not the standard.

>> No.7893309

>>7893305
No I understood they where mocking, I've just been DYING to talk about it since it happened yesterday lol

>> No.7893318

>>7893302
ugh I really want to read this now, can I really find it online and what keywords could I use?

>> No.7893346

Why don't you do your own damn homework and thinking instead of asking others to help you justify drawing fan art for a class assignment.

>> No.7893356

>>7893318
nvm got it
web.stanford.edu/group/sjeaa/journal111/Japan5.pdf

>> No.7893365

>>7893309
>lol
Stop

>> No.7893396

>>7893346
>fan art
what
I think that this makes sense for her to ask, that way she can better represent the lolita comm as a whole.

>> No.7893410

>>7893346
It's okay to ask for help, anon. Calm down.

>> No.7893462

>>7893306

I suspect your thinking is suspect. Why? Most PEOPLE think it's weird. Most people think lolitas are crazy for dressing up like that. It has little to do with feminist theory and more to do with people just not fitting into the boxes of societal norms. That's why dudes might not like lolita, not this backwards bending shit that lolitas don't represent nonsexualised femininity. Styles like OL is fairly nonsexual and conservative yet would be more welcomed just because they're not so outrageous.

And here is why my ex liked my lolita: he was into cosplay. He was used to weird. That's why he accepted my lolita. He likes dressing up weird, I like dressing up weird, and at the risk of offending the lolita community, we had that in common and that's what brought us together.

>> No.7893485

>>7893462
Not that anon, but there's a big difference between accepting something, or thinking it's cute, and finding it sexy.

>> No.7893487

>>7893462
What is OL?

>> No.7893491
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7893491

artistically speaking, i really don't think a drawing of a lolita surrounded by a bunch of flowers and unicorns would be interesting, no matter how pretty it'll end up... that said, your teacher's idea sounds really shitty too, it's like everything wrong with feminist art and i'm pretty sure people like her are what makes so much of it subpar (at least in my opinion).

i think >>7893212 could be interesting, especially if done in a naturalistic way. i could see it work with several small pictures, each depicting a specific everyday thing

>>7893280 is a nice idea too, but i'm not sure it can be done without looking incredibly cheesy. it'd have to be pretty subtle, and people might miss the point then.

>> No.7893498

>>7893356
that's not it. she went to University of Western Ontario.

here's the dissertation I'm referring to:
http://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2288&context=etd

>> No.7893531

>>7893280
>omg conformist sheeple

Tearing down conformist styles of dress and negating the choice of the wearer wins you no points, snowflake.

>> No.7893543

>>7893487
Office lady style

>> No.7893559

>>7893498
Hey, that's my school.

Thanks for both links though anons.

>>7893195
While you say it doesn't seem as interesting to draw, showing lolitas doing mundane or mature things would reinforce the point that it is a fashion and that the women involved are capable, and taking care of themselves.

Even something like a handful of girls hanging out at a plain coffee shop (hell, make it a Starbucks, whatever) would make it grounded.

>> No.7893566

>>7893365
You must be new to internet

>> No.7893574

>>7893559
that's awesome, my boyfriend went to UWO and he liked it. I miss London a lot actually even though it's not really a special place. the comm there was always sweet to me when I visited. I miss them.

>> No.7893585

>>7893531
Trying to show a contrast =/= me hating conformity. I was trying to give her an idea that her teacher might appreciate as well as fitting her criteria.
Looking that far into someone's words to point out edginess wins you no points either, snowflake.

>> No.7893591 [DELETED] 

>>7893462>>7893462
You spewed my own point back at me until this part.

>Styles like OL is fairly nonsexual and conservative yet would be more welcomed just because they're not so outrageous.

Idk wtf OL is but concervative clothing in general lack femininity and are usually work related. And that's another can if worms.

Lolita is an alternative fashion and I won't deny that, but there's plenty other alt fashions that I've been involved with that don't leave everyone as confused as to why I would choose to be so purposely unnatractive.

>> No.7893600

>>7893462 #
You spewed my own point back at me until this part.

>Styles like OL is fairly nonsexual and conservative yet would be more welcomed just because they're not so outrageous.

Idk wtf OL is but concervative clothing in general lack femininity and are usually work related. And that's another can if worms.

Lolita is an alternative fashion and I won't deny that, but there's plenty other alt fashions that I've been involved with that don't leave everyone as confused as to why I would choose to be so purposely unnatractive.

And again your bf IS NOT the standard.

>> No.7893611

I honestly don't understand why people insist on doing school projects with lolita. Why not cats?

>> No.7893619

>>7893611
Cats are not edgy desu

>> No.7893631

>>7893233
my husband thinks it's pretty in a totally non sexual way

>> No.7893643

>>7893566
You must be new to 4chan

>> No.7893644
File: 504 KB, 410x589, stupid called its for you.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893644

>>7893306
I'm assuming this is bait but I'm gonna take it

Your generalization is wrong

>> No.7893664

>>7893644
Lol gr8 b8

If not bait then... you never wear lolita outside of conventions do you?

>> No.7893668

>>7893611
the assignments are supposed to be things we can personally relate to.

>> No.7893676

>>7893644
I think she's talking about men in public. Men you personally know will be different about it because they see you as you, not a nameless piece of ass.
Once on some redneck ass forum I came across while looking for information on the antigravity/antijiggle bra developed at A&M some grown-ass men were throwing tantrums about its existence because there was a tiny possibility they might not see some passersby's boobs move as they walked and it was fucking embarrassing but i cant say i was surprised.

>> No.7893677

>>7893643
I'm an old fag boo, and People be loling here left in right bait harder.

>> No.7893679

>>7893212
I don't think the teacher thinks lolita infantizes women, I think the subject is supposed to be about how society infantizes women. At least, that's how I read OP's post. And if that's the case, I'm not really sure how OP can drag lolita into her project. I mean, there are ways to do it, just not how OP is describing.

>> No.7893692

>>7893676
I have men regularly approach and tell me I would be so cute if I didn't dress like this. It happens every other time I leave the house in lolita, they first ask wtf I'm wearing and then go "you're a pretty girl, you don't need all this." Or something along those line.

>> No.7893709

>>7893692
I once had a guy go "Why a cutie like you running around dressed like dat?" While at the mall and he creepily caressed my face. Truly a traumatic moment for me.

>> No.7893710

So? You know it will give you grief. It's a school project. Lolita is easily misconstrued.

>> No.7893732

>>7893679
i thought it was the opposite, op should probably clarify

>> No.7893748

>>7893679
nope we can do whatever we want for the whole year. there's no assignment, it was just more like she wanted to turn my idea into that (society infantizing women) rather than showing lolita being what it is. im not really surprised though, considering she consulted me about my drawing being sexual in the past, and then got our school's counselor to basically put me on spot for dressing how i do, even though it doesn't break the dress codes.

>> No.7893750
File: 817 KB, 260x173, Morph Ball cquired.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893750

I didn't know that lolita was a form of rejecting social norms as explained by >>7893276

What does lolita mean to you, /cgl/, why do you do it?

>> No.7893754

>>7893748
oh wow.
So she's that kind of feminist.
ok.
stupid

>> No.7893758

>>7893748
What a prude.

>> No.7893766

>>7893748
Wow are you in college?
Why would you dressing in Lolita matter?

>> No.7893795

>>7893766
i'm in my last year of highschool.
i dont wear lolita to school, either. i wear pretty average clothes, maybe some very very very casual lolita-ish stuff occasionally but never actual lolita. sure a lot of it is short or shows a bit of cleavage but its not breaking the school code, so i dunno why she felt the need to comment on it.

somehow she figured out my cosplay hobby though, and that i was anti-fem. i guess she saw my facebook or something. my cosplays are a lot worse but it still doesnt really give her any place to jump in. shes told me to google misogyny once, too.

>> No.7893810

>>7893748
One idea you could raise with your teacher is the notion of how women are generally expected to take up as little space as possible in public - be quiet, be skinny, etc - and how lolita challenges and defies those expectations. A cupcake skirt in pastel shades demands space for the wearer, and calls attention to the wearer's feminine identity in a non-sexualized way (emphasizing the abstract concept of the feminine rather than the physical sex of the wearer), in opposition to cultural standards such as business attire or most "casual" clothing, which are often coded masculine or gender-neutral. Play with the notion that lolita, by taking up space, is a rebellion against stereotypes of the feminine as meek and small while simultaneously refusing to give in to the concept that, in order to merit a place within the public sphere, women must mask or neutralize their gender.

That said, arguing with a stubborn teacher is a fast route to shitty grades, in my experience.

>> No.7893832

>>7893795
well then. forget it, unless you totally bend over and agree with her bullshit, you will never get a good grade from her.
might as well do what you want.

more importanty. why the fuck was she able to see your facebook? were you retarded enough to add your shittier teacher as a friend?

>> No.7893842

>>7893748
also, what does something like
>she consulted me about my drawing being sexual
even mean?

>> No.7893847

>>7893832
yeah, thats what we've been doing. parent teacher's soon so my moms probably gonna lay her a new one, lol. not that it'll help but she's been complaining about her since i started school, can't stop her now.

& as for the facebook, the picture im tagged in are public. im part of the classes group page since she puts updates there the day theyre in effect, like when stuffs due (great right). must've looked at my profile when i joined, or something.

>> No.7893848

>>7893795
>a lot of it is short or shows a bit of cleavage
and that is not school-appropriate.

>> No.7893850

>>7893750
Well, the biggest reason is that I like it. It does have some rebellion in there, like "I'm wearing what I want because it makes ME happy, and the opinion of assholes on the street don't have an effect on my clothing"
If lolita did not appeal to me, I would probably wear some other form of alt. fashion. I admire goth and punk stuff now, so there is a good chance that if I never did lolita I would wear something of that nature. Not because so edgy desu, but because I am the type of person who gets bored easily of things that are too repetitive. Ever since I was young, I've been going out of my way to not get stuck in some boring cycle of sameness.
TL;DR I wear lolita because I think it's cute, because I don't think random jerks ideas of what looks good should apply to me, and because I don't like boring repetitive stuff.
Sorry for wall of text.

>> No.7893863

>>7893842
i did a painting of cleopatra's suicide. i noticed other artists who'd done it, and painted/sculpted her had her breasts showing, so i wanted to keep it accurate to that. apparently applying what other people had done (part of the criteria, btw, lol) meant my drawing was no longer about suicide, but instead, titties.

>> No.7893884

>>7893848
it is here. leggings arent even banned here. you can wear some lengths of crop tops, too.

its mostly just really short crop tops, tanks, and skirts that are wayy too short that are banned. anything that shows undies, really.

>> No.7893891

>>7893884
you sound like you are way too young/immature to be attempting the masterpiece of social critique that you want others to think up for you

>> No.7893899

>>7893891
hm? im going to do the "lolitas in daily settings" thing, i was just curious if anyone had anything else to put in or to hear how they perceive the fashion with the whole stereotype of it being age play/infantized.

>> No.7893903

>>7893863
i see. this lady sounds more and more like a crazy christian mom to me. but hey, it's just highschool.

>> No.7893920

>>7893863
Lots of schools are like that, my teacher at least had the brain to warn us the school wouldn't allow us to do any nudity. Pause the drama and just aim for an A.

>> No.7893923

>>7893920
they actually do allow it, though! some of the other students had some that was for sale last year in the office.

>> No.7893926

>>7893920
Well, depending whether or not you have The U.S. Bill of Rights. You can argue that they infringe on your rights for trying to censor nudity in Art. Lewd Speech is not protected.

>> No.7893933

>As your art teacher, I want you to capture my ideals in your art

What a bitch.

>> No.7893949

>>7893926
Naw, Australia.
>>7893923
Whacky

>> No.7894246

>>7893574
d'awww! Yeah the comm here is chock full of sweethearts. London is boring, but it's a comfortable place to live for a student I think. Come visit again sometime. There will be a fashion show for the comicon next year.

>>7893750
Honestly, if I reduce everything into its simplest reasons...do a degree, I like being a special snowflake. I like alternate fashion, and the aesthetics of certain jfashion really agree with me (himekaji, lolita). So it's what I do. But also, I used to care way too much what people think. Now I don't. Maybe on some level I'd like to think I'm better than the rest of the crowd, I don't know. Mainly, I just want to be able to look in the mirror, feel really cute and good about myself, and do all that without worrying about what strangers think of me.

>>7893810
I like this idea as well.

>>7893923
Your teachers is whack. Do your thing anon.

>> No.7894259

>>7894246
That's a good way to describe it. It totally is a comfortable place for a student. Personally, coming from a big city, London always felt really safe and like a real college town, which is an experience I've never had. The comm is absolutely sweet and friendly, and really chill compared to my main comm. I hope I can visit again but now my boyfriend lives on the opposite end of southern ontario. womp womp.

>> No.7894361

>>7893356
omg, I think I remember this article. Shit, man. I wish I had this source for my research last semester.

>> No.7894369

>>7893709
jfc. Weren't people taught since kindergarten that we should keep our hands to ourselves? Goddammit.

>> No.7894530

>>7893795
Oh so you're a dumb underage snowflake. This explains everything.

>> No.7894567

>>7894530
"snowflake" lol?

>> No.7894583

>>7893195
I always hated art, it was always about how much of a speshul snowflake you could be and never because you like a certain style or something, There had to be some 2deep5u meaning behind it.

>> No.7894596

I was literally nearly with you here >>7893748 until >>7893795 . Honestly, anon, your teacher's not great but the more I read about you the more I can see how your ideas might be shit/you may be a problem. Either way, the lolita art you're planning doesn't seem interesting. How about you focus on the ways you can have something sweet like lolita in a mature theme (without sexualizing it or making it gory, because that screams edgelord) to politely take on what your teacher said without coming off as bratty.

>> No.7894601

>>7894596
*something LIKE sweet lolita

>> No.7894608

>>7893920
Man, that's ridiculous. My school regularly had nude models in (male and female) so the Life Drawing class could get a feel of drawing human bodies. I mean, we were an art school, sure, but I'm always confounded when people never understand that there's such a thing as non-sexual nudity.

>> No.7894684

>>7893276
Interesting read, anon but there's something I don't get
>was that Japanese women when they get older are supposed to give up their independent lives to take care of children and a family, not take care of themselves, much less dress themselves in any fashion they want.
> since Japanese women for the most part don't really understand gender inequality

Aren't Japanese pretty traditional about gender roles? How can they not understand gender inequality then?

>> No.7894690

>>7894583
This is so true
I got really disenchanted with art when I went to an exhibition on something I actually knew something about. It became dishearteningly clear it was just people trying to be deep and interesting and really appearing that way but in reality, they weren't

>> No.7894692

Man when I was still in art school and I still was drawing cute stuff and then was so proud of it I showed it to my teacher, he said I should take it over the top, make it craaaazy cute (like yes infantisizing it or whatever...to shock people because basically art should do something to people and not be normal crap that is cute, because cute isn't nice and not interesting. >_>;

Anyway, maybe you could make like a 3-window thing to show a lolita like a normal person, a sweet lolita just like they are and then a window with how society sees them (OTT crazy I mean) and then let the people decide what they see in it. (it's still boring though, of course your art teacher wants it to be like..you know..going the age-play-route or whatever, because that's so artsy (I hate artsy crap, why am I even an artist..)

>> No.7894693

>>7894608
Given op's apparent maturity level going by this thread I'm guessing she drew some kind of anime titty monster and acted surprised when her teacher shockingly didn't like it

>> No.7894723
File: 69 KB, 594x408, Opening+New+Contemporary+Art+Centre+Francois+UYcrqDYJXNKl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7894723

>>7894693
so? anime titty monsters can be art too. yeah, non-sexual nudity is a thing in art, but sexual nudity is one too, and sexual what-the-fuck-am-i-looking-at-this-really-shouldn't-be-sexual also. yeah, op has a bit of an entitled teenager vibe going on, but her teacher sounds genuinly shitty too.
i'm not saying op should follow the Takashi Murakami road, but you can't deny that it exists, and that the guy is a well known and respected artist.

>> No.7894728

>>7894723
You have to be kidding me

>> No.7894731

>>7894728
about what?

>> No.7894746

>>7894693
nope, never drawn anime in my life. she's said a few times she likes my handwork and my style, but it just seems to be my ideas and execution that's not up to par. up until now im mostly been doing fashiony-esq drawings or realistic portraits.

>> No.7894754

>>7894684
Different anon chiming in. I think it's more that they expect different experiences for different types of people, and they largely accept that that's just the way it is (whether it's fair or not). They may believe that male and demand are "equal" in terms of rights and other such vague terms, when discussing philosophy and such. But realistically, in everyday life, they have to deal with different sets of expectations and restrictions that society puts on each sex. These expectations and restrictions come from centuries of hierarchy and conformity and tradition, and one doesn't toss all those off easily. Things are changing in Japan, of course, but it's slow.

Recommended reading: "Kickboxing Geishas: How Modern Japanese Women Are Changing Their Nation" by Veronica Chambers. The title pisses me off, and the editor could have been a wee bit sharper (I caught at least three typos in the book), but the stories contained are very interesting. It documents Japanese women attempting more "risky" or "daring" activities than their male peers, such as studying abroad, doing artsy endeavors. So much so that a gap in worldly experiences can end marriages before they truly begin.

Ever heard of a "Narita divorce"? It's usually after the couple spend their honeymoon abroad, and it's the husband's first time traveling outside Japan. He shuts himself up in the hotel room, while the wife goes out shopping alone in the streets of Paris, because she's been there before, twice. They return to Japan, and the wife declares at the Narita Airport, that they're too different, it won't work out. Bam. Narita divorce.

>> No.7894795

How about this. A high angle shot of a girl wearing lolita and a conservatively dressed office lady sitting at a table in a cafe. The lolita is smiling while talking animatedly and gesturing with her hand. The office lady is smiling and reading a paper the lolita is handing her. In her other hand she is holding a teacup. Other papers on the table have pie charts and other indicators that this is a business meeting.

The juxtaposition of the lolita and the office lady with neither caring what the other is wearing and the informal nature of the cafe with the business being conducted there draws attention to the differences while diffusing the significance of the differences. The lolita's manner paints her in a different light than her "infantile" clothing would suggest, instead it is innocence combined with purpose.

>> No.7894799

>>7894754
thanks for explaining, anon.
Reading all this makes me glad I'm not Japanese, I wouldn't be happy living the traditional woman way. I have a career to build, dammit!

>> No.7894800

>>7894731
About everything.
Not even that anon, though.

>> No.7894887

You could also maybe draw lolitas in royal themed coords, you know, with crowns and colours out of the sweet spectrum. Maybe gothic or classic themes too.

>> No.7894924

>>7893276
>>7893286
>>7893302
This is confusing me. Do you all actually think women are selfish for not having kids and that it is their duty to have kids? Or are you just paraphrasing the article?

>>7893233
>>7893485
I think it's more just a matter of culture? I mean twee and otome aren't sexy or meant to be but are both cute/pretty and acceptable and are not considered sexy. I think the reason men you have met might vocalize a disdain for lolita is because it just draws more attention than something like otome.
Most women just wear jeans and casual shirts. That is not revolving around being attractive to men. In the case of dressing up or down it changes depending on the setting. Ie parties most wear a cocktail dress that can be sexy but it is meant to please all three parties, women, men and the wearer included.

>> No.7895017
File: 6 KB, 250x250, 1413856122851.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7895017

>>7893212
> baby clothes
> feminine

>> No.7895125

>>7893863

> ignoring the actual meaning of the message because tits be showing

Your teacher is a fucking shitty feminist.

>> No.7895132
File: 9 KB, 235x236, iI9TTFz.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7895132

>>7895017

>> No.7895139

>>7893810
This anon has a great idea, and it relates to the study of art too, with the use of positive and negative space, etc.

>> No.7895165

>>7893295
Usually normalfag men dislike lolita, the ones that like lolita worn by their gf is because they are into japanese culture/nerdy interests or they dress already in jfashion or alt clothing style. I never heard a normalfag saying "oh that girl is so beautiful in lolita or these doll clothing, i wanna date her."
>>7893462
That is what i mean. Usually the guys that like lolita or jfashion in girls are nerdy/cosplayers/jfashion wearers/goths and so on. A normie would never like a girl in lolita or just be indifferent, also hoping her gf would dress more "normal".
>>7893600
Yes he isn't the standard but its true most of times.

>> No.7896105

>>7894795
I like this

>> No.7896670

>>7893212
>real feminist
There is no such thing as a coherent 'real' feminism. It's just a bunch of theories which have gender as their basis.

>> No.7896674

>>7893195
>Society infantizes young women
I am not seeing it. If anything, it deinfantizes women. Kids loose their innocence faster today then they did previously if you compare it to the baby boomers or gen X.

>> No.7896675

>>7893232
>You could draw lolitas being parts of nature, showing that the fashion is it's own, organic thing.
No, that would be too uncanny. Lolita is primarily inorganic, plastic even.

>> No.7896676

>>7896674
This is a good point. Maybe a theme about the loss of innocence, and our attempt to find it again through things like lolita- a yearning for a different time/place, but with our rules instead of men's patriarchal rules?
>I tried.

>> No.7896690

>>7893270
So your 'infantile' if you don't dress up and act like an infant but you are an infant if you choose not to even if you want too.

I think we're asking the wrong question here. Instead of 'does society infantizes young women?' you should be asking 'why does it matter if society infantizes young women?' or 'does the infantization of women have any effect of the woman's agency.'

>> No.7896697

>>7896676
This seems the most practical option if you wanted to use something like this. It is difficult though if we can link the loss of innocence to any sort of 'patriarchy rules'.

I'm going to do a bit of armchair philosophy here, but I think it has more to do with the coming of the teenager who has a dispendible income and wants to act 'grown-up' due to feelings this will bring them greater autonomy. So businesses cater to these interests and force them on younger and younger generations.

>> No.7896700

Draw lolitas in power poses.

>> No.7896798

Draw a lolita shitting out a personification of patriarchy ... like a man in a business suit with "PATRIARCHY" stamped on his head.

It will look shit but your teacher seems pretty shit

>> No.7896951

>>7893195
>I really just wanted to paint a lolita surrounded by things from some sweet lolita prints, and another similar one but with classic lolita.
That sounds kinda shitty and boring, honestly.
>I was joking with some people about drawing a Lolita doing "mature" things like grocery shopping or being a business woman, but it's not really something I'd want to paint.
This is a lot more interesting. If you want to show off what lolita really is, the first idea will not help your cause at all.