/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

[Anonymous No.6761480]

Since the ita thread is dead/derailed to shit, I wanted to start a new thread to brush on a topic that one anon mentioned, which is trying to make more cohesive guidelines as far as lolita goes, because honestly, even though it's not a huge problem, helping itas or newbs more easily would be helpful for everyone. We should try to discuss what exactly determines what is and isn't a lolita outfit etc. And heck, maybe we can get some pamphlets together and hand them out at cons or something to try to help.

[Anonymous No.6761486]

Maybe include good places to start looking for lolita clothing as well

[Anonymous No.6761493]

I think that something worth mentioning is that lolita is a fashion, so it has specific things that define it, and without them you're not dressing in lolita, it may be similar but not the same. Not to mention that part of dressing up is making yourself match the outfit ie hair and makeup and that sort of thing. People just getting into lolita always seem to think that everyone is just happy and cute and dressing like princesses but they don't put any effort into it when it needs some. And I think it's important to stress that yes you can dress lolita whatever size you are but you still should try to look your best. Sloppiness and laziness aren't going to make the dress look good, but as long as you take time to present yourself well it will pay off. This sort of thing is always so touchy because a lot of people are against judging peoples' exterior, but I think that it's ridiculous not to expect someone to criticize you for not trying to look good in a fashion.

[Anonymous No.6761498]

I also think that explaining that milanoo is a risk or a gamble is better than saying it's a scam, mostly because ignorant people cry elitist when they don't actually know any better.

[Anonymous No.6761503]

New lolitas are often scared of others looking down at them, personally i'm scared of wearing lolita because I think i'd get it wrong etc. There are so many set rules it scares me, then people get angry when you don't consider lolita as a lifestyle. Practically I cannot wear lolita everywhere but people will look down upon me.

I don't have much money to spend, and I cannot save up as I have other things to spend on. I'd love to make my own skirts but i'm practicing atm with cheap materials etc.

I guess if someone gave some simple and friendly guidelines then it'll help, but I know someone is gonna be mega bitchy!

[Anonymous No.6761509]

>>6761503
If you're scared of people being mega bitchy you should just live in your room all day forever because that will happen at any time no matter what. Also, most western lolitas don't care about the lifestyle and actually get annoyed when you mention lolita as a lifestyle. There aren't rules necessarily, just defining features, and they're important, but not too difficult or impossible to understand. I'm writing a list right now about what the guidelines actually are.

[Anonymous No.6761521]

>>6761509
Who defines the guildlines for a fashion as everyone has different opinions..

[Anonymous No.6761524]

>>6761480
>trying to make more cohesive guidelines as far as lolita goes
I honestly think that knowing what's lolita and what isn't is just a matter of seeing good and bad examples of lolita. I'm not a lolita, but I can tell on sight if an outfit is lolita or not.

[Anonymous No.6761533]

>>6761521
The majority...I...haven't you ever been into fashion before? Unless you're one of those tumblerite lolitas who doesn't know anything.

[Anonymous No.6761580]

>>6761521
I don't think their guidelines will be "you must wear this shade of pink with that shade of sax" but more along the lines of "you need to wear a petticoat to get the right silhouette" since without the right silhouette, it's not lolita. Although of course, yes, there are two skirt shapes (a line and cupcake) but both need petticoats.

[Anonymous No.6761586]

>>6761521
I'm a bit confused by this question actually. As far as I know this fashion is defined by both the brands and the wearers. Both in part, they compliment eachother as brands do not define the style, but the wearer also does not fully define it. I will give and example. AP releases fairy-kei style items like mini skirts, those aren't lolita, but all the lolita brands release dresses with a similar cut worn in a similar way with similar accent pieces and accessories.

Specific fashions is not just a free for all that change on the whim of the wearer, they have to have something iconic that ties them together. Mori girl, otome, fairy-kei, punk, vk, and even gyaru all have specifics that make them distinguishable from other outfits or fashions.


The ones for lolita would be as follows:
>the style and cut of dresses and skirts.

This is very important, imo, because it's what separates poofy skirt from lolita skirt. Simply wearing a skirt and petticoat doesn't make the dress lolita, there are a few common cuts that dresses and skirts have that can define the outfit as lolita. A-line, cupcake, empire waist. All of these have enough room for a full petti and define the shape of lolita.

>second would be a petti, obviously.

Casual lolita still uses a small petti for the most part because otherwise the fabric of the skirts would drape weird and make the outfit look bad. That said, the shape of the skirt is another defining feature of a lolita outfit. Having a petti can make or break the look of the style, plus it's basically a common fact that the skirts are sew full enough to need a petti to look right. And all in all if you think otherwise it doesn't quite fit with lolita(but chances are the rest of your outfit doesn't either)

Part 1/

[Anonymous No.6761602]

>>6761586

>doll like look
I'm not talking about makeup or hair either. I think that most styles of hair look fine with lolita, what I am talking about is clothing. The look of the outfit as a whole should give off a doll like persona. I think a lot of blouses and even shoes that people wear sort of break the look. To be perfectly honest when I think of the majority of lolita I picture Imai Kira artwork. I'm not talking about the features necessarily, but the look of the clothing(and yes I know most of it is just AP) sort of gives off the look of a doll. Certain types of blouses, skirts, dresses and some shoes can take away from that look which brings it a bit farther from lolita as well. Obviously there is room for experimentation, but the blouse is just as important. It should have a slight frill or elegance to it, depending on the style and I notice many offbrand blouses don't always fit the look as well as others might.

>matching yourself to your outfit.
I'm not talking about persona, I'm talking about makeup and hair styling. Both of those things are important in any outfit at all, especially eye catching ones. A cosplayer wouldn't go without making their appearance look like the characters, right? I don't think many would. Now, you don't need a wig persay, but some people find it daunting to work with their own hair, and that's understandable, so wigs can be helpful, but something else that's helpful is learning how. Same with makeup, many lolitas are geeky or awkward girls who never wore makeup in their life, so I'm sure the either think they 'don't need it' or they can't tell mascara from lipstick. Well, the truth is, no one 'needs' makeup, but you do want it to look your best. Hiding flaws is only part of it, it enhances your features, can work to play colors off of your outfit in a more flattering way, and you can even use it in a more extravagant way in OTT. It is important.

Part 2/

[Anonymous No.6761630]

>>6761602
Continuing with the makeup, like I was saying, if you have no clue what to do, there are people out there who do, and you can pay them to teach you. Even department stores have makeover stations and they really help. You can tell them you want it natural or dark or however, you don't even need much, they'll explain and do it for you step by step. It doesn't cost too much depending where you go, and obviously it's no hassle for them, it's their job. I highly recommend this to people. Same with hair, go to get your hair styled by your beautician, she'll be more than happy to tell you how to do it yourself. Looking up tutorials online after you've learned basics is also very very helpful. The makeup will help your look over all and make the outfit look even better.

>accessories: less is more(expect in OTT) and matching
Now, everyone wants to bring their creativity into their outfits, that's always obvious, but an important thing to remember is that you should start small. A way to learn how to accessorize easily is by doing the simple thing, going by the colors in your outfit. Wearing all black? Obviously black will go well, bright green or red? Maybe not. But a deep purple might, though working it in there takes time to learn. Another thing is that you need to balance colors out. Having an outfit with a lot of color A and then tossing a tiny bit of color B into it may not work as well as you think, but wearing a bit more of color B will make the outfit more cohesive in general and also allow for the addition of other colors that match the one you just put in the outfit as well as your main color. It is very important for all the colors to not only match the main piece but eachother as well, determining that takes time if you don't have much fashion experience. Looking at good examples such as official brand coords in things like the GLB or suggested coords on websites help a ton, obviously wearing a whole set works, try looking at non-prints.

Part 3/

[Anonymous No.6761651]

>>6761630
>matching continued
Lolita does have very distinct styles, though some of them cross eachother in places, it's easy to determine one from the other. Knowing this, it's important for those on a budget to try to get pieces that match cohesively with whatever they may want. Though, if you want an all pastel sweet wardrobe and an all black gothic wardrobe, this may not work all too well. Anyways, imagine you're into sweet and classic there are pieces you can buy that work with both. Since lolita styles for the most part are not color coded, plain, sweet blouses will work with most classic jsks or skirts, while classic purses may work with some sweet outfits or vice versa. Staples in lolita are very important.

>staples of a wardrobe
It may seem daunting to figure out which colors you want to buy first(unless you're rich and can buy everything you want), but the easiest thing to remember is that neutrals will always go with something. A brown classic skirt and a white blouse will work together and that white blouse will also work with any color of sweet JSK. If you want a lot of opposing colors though, you should take some time to decide which ones you'd like to have first, and buy staples that match with those items before trying to buy a lot of things all at once that you may want that don't work together. Some staples in lolita would be:

>3-4 tops a
lteast half that match the colors you've chosen that you intend to wear them with

>3+ main pieces
as far as easiness goes OPs are very simple to coord, since you have less that you have to put together yourself

>2-3 pairs of shoes
these should also match your pieces well and also be colors that you like personally. obviously if your dress is black with purple and you don't like purple too too much, get black shoes.

Part 4/

[Anonymous No.6761652]

I have to take a break for now, so feel free to put in your opinions about a lot of what I've written thus far.

[Anonymous No.6761665]

>>6761503
This.
>>6761509
It's the whole 'I'm not trying to ruin your day, BUT' attitude that seems to be really prevalent in lolita comms. I don't see it happen that much in cosplay, where people seem to praise pretty much any kind of involvement. Noobs can only get better at what they're doing and everyone starts as a noob. Since getting into lolita is a much larger investment than cosplay anyway (you can always choose to cosplay a simple char), this 'keeping it sacred' and generally being mean to new people can be really discouraging.
Btw, there's absolutely no excuse for being mega bitchy. Ever.

>tl;dr calm your tits

[Anonymous No.6761668]

>>6761665
Yes

[Anonymous No.6761697]

>>6761524
I agree.

>>6761586
>>6761602
>>6761630
>>6761651
Anon, keep at it. You are doing the loli gods' work.

>>6761665
Then you've never experienced being in a fashion subculture before, because that's a thing you'll find in fashion in general, not just lolita. Complaining about people 'being mean' is almost always overblowing legitimate critique, outside of wank comms.

[Anonymous No.6761713]

>>6761697

[Anonymous No.6761717]

>>6761713

[Anonymous No.6761720]

>>6761602
>A cosplayer wouldn't go without making their appearance look like the characters, right?
Not that it's not a good example, but I think it might be a bad idea to compare cosplay and lolita when dealing with newcomers

[Anonymous No.6761730]

>>6761720
This is very true, perhaps a better example would be that you wouldn't go out in a snowstorm without a coat on or something to that extent. Again, I'm still a bit busy at the moment, but I'm going to finish up the staples section.

[Anonymous No.6761738]

>>6761665
The fact that you seem to have agreed to something that doesn't have very much merit to it is a bit troubling, especially considering the anon who said that lolitas in the west tend to not have much interest in the lifestyle aspect, I think that you're probably unaware of how things like fashion actually work as a whole. There is a lot of critiquing involved, most of which is desired. I mean, to expect to be among a group of one's peers with the only connection being one's outward appearance, it is a bit baffling to not receive some kind of critique, especially if one is new. That said however, most girls aren't bitchy, and atleast not to peoples' faces, which is usually a kinder way to handle a situation such as that. Obviously it might be nicer to not have bitchiness, but everyone doesn't always want to bend their will. Also, I agree that a lot of 'meanness, rudeness or bullying is simply a product of someone perceiving criticism in a far too personal manner, atleast a fair amount of the time.

[Anonymous No.6761750]

>>6761651
>staples continued
>1-2 good pettis
I say 1 to 2 simply because sometimes you never know if you want all a-line or all cupcake shaped skirts, and surprisingly enough you may not notice the differing skirt shape until you have the item in person. having atleast one cupcake and one a-line will keep all of your bases covered and many of them are very cheap and well made.

>legwear; depends
it is harder to choose legwear or determine how many pieces is right for one starting wardrobe. if say, you start with a printed dress and get the entire set, the legwear may not match anything but the one outfit. As a general rule though, plain tights and socks in fairly neutral accent colors always work well with a print as well as a non-print coord. Classic and gothic(and few sweet) lolitas have the ease of lace tights, so if you're interested in either of those styles they will work to your advantage when just starting out.

>1-3 purses
bags are very important for storing things as well as balancing out an accent color in an outfit. it is very easy to get away with 1 very neutral bag such as white or black and 1 in an accent color that you're fond of, though, all 3 are preferable and the styles are fairly interchangeable unless of course they have intricate detailing specific to one style. however the bag should also reflect the doll like look of the rest of the outfit.

>accessories(hair, jewelry, pins and the like)
now, again, this is personal discretion, but buying 1 or 2 head pieces that match most of everything else can save a lot of money, the same with jewelry, being able to mix and match is always a good thing, but prioritizing and not going crazy with purchases can help alot.

>parasol
some people don't think a parasol is a necessity, but I think alteast 1 in a neutral color is nice to have when starting out.

>makeup:
Like I said earlier, going to a department store and getting a personalized, instructed makeover can help you get to know the basics atleast.

[Anonymous No.6762423]

bump
I find this extremely helpfull

[Anonymous No.6763230]

Hello everyone, I'm back. I had a bit of an emergency situation that I had to attend to last night. I'll be continuing for just a bit now, as I'm still a bit busy. If there was anyone who would like to compile some of the information here that would be great.