/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

[Anonymous No.6315609]

I might be going to Japan, and I'm really excited, but I'm worried about other lolitas other there.
I know the fashion is very different in Japan compared to the western world, but I don't know the 'do not absolutely do this' type things, or things that are accepted here but absolutely not in Japan?

I heard that glasses and short hair are a problem, and I have both. Are there any good , realistic wigs out there that don't cost and arm and leg?

I also don't own very much brand, mostly handmade and offbrand. Would this be an issue?

Thank you so much, I would appreciate any help or advice. (Also no need to worry, I'm not a Japan-worshiping weaaboo and I do know how to be respectful of others)

[Anonymous No.6315984]

I am so tired of this topic. Why do you fucking care what they think? Do what you like and make it look good. To be slightly more helpful, all I've heard aside form an ISOLATED blog post by 1 Japanese lolita, is that the rules are more lax over there than here, and they don't seem to understand why people go crazy over stupid things in the western comms. Besides, due to the culture, I doubt anyone is going to come up and start screaming at you, that's far too forward. But seriously, stop worrying about bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6316092]

They aren't going to like you regardless of what you do OP, you're not a Japanese born in Japan. Just wallow in your differentness and use it as your shield, don't try to fit in because that's impossible, they won't allow it.

[Anonymous No.6316195]

>>6315984
>>6316092
>>6315984
I don't like being judged, I can understand Japanese fairly well and I know when I'm being made fun of. I'm sensitive, so I want to avoid that. I know I won't fit in, but I'd like to minimize any problems I could face, that's all.

[Anonymous No.6316215]

>>6316195
You'll still be hearing things that you don't like there, or anywhere else. There's no difference. Grow up, you can't please everybody, even if you "minimize" any problems.

[Anonymous No.6316270]

wow cgl anons get pretty pissed anytime someone goes to ~glorious nippon~

IDK from my experience Japanese people are alright. If you embrace the "yes I know I'm a foreigner and therefor different" thing, they usually will find you interesting and exotic.
I'm in Korea, so it's not exactly the same, but I just I embrace what makes me different while also acting according to the country's social standards (AKA general common sense with a few things slightly different).

[Anonymous No.6316355]

>>6316270

It's not that, it's just this comes up way too often and people are to concerned with what people in ~glorious nippon~ think

As the other anon said, you are going to be made fun of and talked about no matter what you wear because youre a foreigner.

[Anonymous No.6316396]

>>6316270
Ok, thank you. I understand what you mean.
See, that's actually what I was trying to ask. What is acceptable, what isn't, social cues I should know but it sort of went off in the usual cgl fashion, haha.

[Anonymous No.6316530]

Actually the Japanese are generally super nice on the surface and you generally don't get beyond that unless you become long and good friends with them. From the lolita perspective, I never had any lolita tell me that I was breaking the rules nor had I ever had any rude comments. In fact, the complete opposite. I got comments like "Oh wow, foreigners look so cute in lolita." etc. I'm not saying the Japanese do not say one thing but think another when giving a positive compliment but what culture doesn't do that? What person doesn't ever do that? I honestly don’t think it’s worth the worry unless you want to learn for education’s sake.
Culturally speaking, the Japanese tend to feel that foreigners should not be held to same expectations that the Japanese hold themselves too. I wouldn’t be surprised if Japanese lolita’s also held this perspective about the fashion’s rules.
And concerning rules, in the summer time, I saw a lot of lolitas wearing JSK’s without blouses or cardigans (gasp!). I’m not saying that this makes the rule of wearing a blouse or cardigan with a JSK defunct or that all Japanese Lolitas think that this is OK because some wear JSK’s that way, I’m saying that in the end we are all individuals with our own thoughts and opinions, regardless of culture, and we make decisions about what to wear based on that. I think you should wear whatever makes you happy. ^_^
BTW I have both short hair and glasses and this has never EVER been an issue. What gave you the impression that it was a problem?

[Anonymous No.6316628]

>>6316530
Thank you for your help, that does make me worry a little less, haha.
Japanese lolitas do have a problem with glasses, that's for sure. I've never seen any lolitas with them, and the only times I see them on jblogs I follow are when japanese girls are making fun of glasses! Maybe it's just what I've exposed to, but it seems a problem.
And short hair is just something I never see, so I assumed it was something frowned upon.

[Anonymous No.6316756]

>>6316628
Well not many Japanese girls wear glasses in general. 90% wear contacts but that's because glasses make your eyes look smaller and huge googly gaga eyes are in style. And like others have said, unless you're an eye gougingly bad ita, no one will give a shit. Unfortunately the number of "wild" lolitas you will see will be very low anyway.

[Anonymous No.6316826]

>>6316530
+1 to all this. My sister wore a coord that I thought was completely ita and awful (really tacky bodyline, she was 13 lol) and everyone was still nice to her and told her she was cute. Seriously, I think the worst thing anyone said was "You should keep improving!! You're so beautiful!"

Also they love seeing your handmade things, you should bring those

[Anonymous No.6316844]

>>6316092
I don't know how crazy JP lolitas are, but when I was in Tokyo years back I found a bunch of cosplayers and broken-talked to a couple of Linali (D Gray-man) cosplayers who thought it was awesome that I cosplay as Lavi. Unless the lolita are just unhinged, I think they'd just be amused by you.

[Anonymous No.6316888]

>>6316826
+2 ing. I don't know if it's "fake" or just kind-hearted, but I've never been insulted by ANY Japanese person while visiting. They seem to be overwhelming kind/helpful to foreigners. it's really sweet. So you're unlikely to get any direct negative comments even if you're dressed horribly. Although, I'm not sure about overheard-comments - they'll probably assume you can't understand, so that might be an issue, OP.

[Anonymous No.6316911]

japanese lolita are sweethearts, and I swear they have this bizarre opinion that all westerners look better in lolita. I was told this about a hundred times while I was there, and not just by lolitas either. I've been wearing lolita for nearly ten years and while at a tea party I after they dawned the uasual "it looks so much better on western girls!" I told them of the opinion that some have here in the west and that used to be quite prominent particularly when I first started wearing it, that only Japanese girls look good in it and they where completely shocked lol

in general the only tip I can add, is don't wear things from another brand to brand events. that is a huge no-no. if you're going to attend a tea party etc, wear your handmade outfits and everything will be honky dory, most lolitas I've met sew to a certain extent and good craftsman ship as well as a cute design are always received quite well. in america is all about brand and in japan too honestly but in japan, specialty items or anything that's rare/not everyone has is a GREAT thing. so homemade clothes don't have that have a sort of negative stigma it has here. it generally seen as pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.6316915]

>>6316911
sorry about the grammar, new phone ^^;;

[Anonymous No.6316930]

>>6316888
Eh, in my experience if they said anything super negative it would be only be in private to their close friends later. They wouldn't want other Japanese girls possibly overhearing in public and thinking they're superbitches lol.

[Anonymous No.6317057]

Here's a Japanese lolita blog entry where she uses glasses for her coord when she doesn't even wear glasses normally: http://magicalheart.blog60.fc2.com/blog-entry-10.html

I think you are taking the opinion of a few and making it the opinion of all Japanese lolitas. I think it's just as one anon said, it's the popular thing to make your eyes look bigger and glasses can help do the opposite.

[Anonymous No.6317101]

>>6316911
Handmade is received well here in America but it's just so often that it doesn't look good. We love well made things though.

[Anonymous No.6317129]

>>6316911
Thank you so much! This really opened my eyes, haha. I had no idea they admired handmade so much. I'm not planning on going to tea parties, but I am visiting shops. Would it be faux pas to wear BTSSB or IW to stores other than those brands?

[Anonymous No.6317188]

>>6316215
calm the fuck down bitch

[Anonymous No.6317197]

>>6316530
I've seen the opposite, in summer lolitas still wear blouses, overknees, wigs, and cardigans or boleros. No idea how they do it as I sweat buckets in shorts and sandals.
>>6316628
One of the prominent Tokyo lolitas is chubby and wears glasses. The manager of AP Harajuku wears glasses. Even Misako wears glasses sometimes. They're uncommon, but not looked down on.
I feel that blog entry that Kaho posted (the opinion of one lolita, she never gave the source) created a lot of misconceptions about what Japanese lolitas think
In terms of etiquette
- Don't be a loud obnoxious weaboo
- Always try to look as good as you can. I swear it's a law that you can't go outside even to grab the mail without makeup on. Handmade is fine as long as it looks good
- Don't wear Bodyline or another brand to a brand event
- Be fairly serious about buying something before you ask to try it on (and always ask to try on). The shop staff will usually accompany you to the changing area carrying the garment, you take off your shoes and step inside, then they hand it to you. They like to ask how you're doing while you're changing (usually when you've got the dress over your head and can only mumble), and they like you to open the curtain and show them once you have it on so they can tell you how damn kawaii you are
- Some items (cutsews, some blouses, socks, sale items) can't be tried on. If the staff think you are way too large for something, they also might not let you try on
- After you pay for your purchases (wait until you've looked around the whole store), the staff will escort you to the shop entrance, hand you your bag, and bow

There is a community of English-speaking lolitas in Japan on Facebook
Tokyo is the best place for lolita-related things, then Osaka. If you end up going to bumfuck nowhere Kyushu, there will be zero stores or things going on.

If you've got any specific questions I'll try to answer!

[Anonymous No.6317208]

>>6317129
No, it's fine to wear whatever brands you like. If you go into a shop wearing their brand head-to-toe, the shopgirls will be fawning all over you and complimenting you, but they'll still be super nice to you if you're wearing a different brand. Of course, common sense applies, i.e., don't go into AP wearing a Melty Chocolate replica or something.

[Anonymous No.6317231]

>>6317129
Any brand is ok. Just don't wear replicas. You'll get more attention wearing lolita than normal clothes, and if you're wearing that brand's clothing in their store, they'll usually compliment you and/or thank you for having bought it

[Anonymous No.6317274]

>>6317188
She seems pretty clam to me. You need to take a breath.

[Anonymous No.6317281]

>>6317274
>clam
calm**

[Anonymous No.6317324]

>>6316355
>people are to concerned with what people in ~glorious nippon~ think
It's because in most western countries rules are all pretty much the same and we all know them. In certain countries such as Japan, the social norms are different.

I could also name many other countries that would make me go OH NO I DON'T KNOW THEIR WAYS WHAT DO I DO but not many of them are loli-tourism friendly so of course you don't see threads on them.

Now stop being a bitch and learn to ignore threads you don't like.

[Anonymous No.6317335]

Since we're on the subject, are there any french lolitas here?

I'm thinking of visiting soon and I'm not sure how to behave... I've heard they're all very rude but I'm not too inclined to believe this. And unusual fashion in general, how do they react to that? I'm not planning on taking any lolita because it'd take up way too much space but most of my clothes are... well, not very usual.
ALSO, I'm a portuguese x italian mix are they going to see I'm an ugly not french foreigner and treat me worse because of that?

Please respond. ;_;

[Anonymous No.6317358]

I'm going to school in Japan, more specificly Osaka or Kyoto. I know that lolita isn't the norm in those cities, but I cant skip the chance to wear lolita at least once while there. Any ideas/coord styles I can wear without being all OTT sweet or super dramatic?

[Anonymous No.6317414]

>>6317358
Take some cues from otome? There was a lovely thread a while back with some semi-casual co-ords.

But to be honest, I really wouldn't worry. If you're visibly foreign you will be regarded like some new variety of giraffe most of the time anyway. You'll very rarely get any upfront rude comments, and if you do they'll be from people who hate foreigners anyway.

Basically foreigners exist outside of the normal rules in Japan. You cannot ever be Japanese and there is no use trying. Of course you must always be respectful and polite, but you might as well take advantage of your outsider status, because there will be times when it's a fucking pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.6317446]

>>6317335
French people have a cultural tendency to ignore/respond to other language speakers in french, and they generally carry a demeanor that's considered haughty, I suppose.They also have a tendency to drop the second half of the words they say and speak mostly in gestures.

I personally don't find them any ruder than any other culture.

[Anonymous No.6317458]

http://kahotearoom.blogspot.dk/2012/06/lolita-definition-in-japan.html

痛ロリの条件 The conditions for Ita lolita in Japan

A:【体型・メイク・ヘアスタイル】 Hair style, Make up and Body figure
・肥満体型
Over weight
・ブサイク
Ugly looking woman
・高校生以上なのにノーメイク
No make up for anyone who is high school age or above.
・ギャルメイク（ギャルロリ）
Gyaru Make up/ Gyaru Lolita
・眉毛や産毛がボーボー
Never refine or shape the eye brow
・ボサボサヘア
Messy hairstyle
・ひっつめヘア（後ろで結んだだけの髪型）
Just a pony tail ties at back with no other special arrangement
・ファッションウィッグではなくコスプレウィッグをかぶっている
Not wearing a proper wig but a cosplay wig

[Anonymous No.6317461]

http://kahotearoom.blogspot.dk/2012/06/lolita-definition-in-japan.html

痛ロリの条件 The conditions for Ita lolita in Japan

A:【体型・メイク・ヘアスタイル】 Hair style, Make up and Body figure
・肥満体型
Over weight
・ブサイク
Ugly looking woman
・高校生以上なのにノーメイク
No make up for anyone who is high school age or above.
・ギャルメイク（ギャルロリ）
Gyaru Make up/ Gyaru Lolita
・眉毛や産毛がボーボー
Never refine or shape the eye brow
・ボサボサヘア
Messy hairstyle
・ひっつめヘア（後ろで結んだだけの髪型）
Just a pony tail ties at back with no other special arrangement
・ファッションウィッグではなくコスプレウィッグをかぶっている
Not wearing a proper wig but a cosplay wig

[Anonymous No.6317464]

>>6317335
A lot of people say the Parisians are rude, and they are, in the sense that they don't give a fuck about you and just want to get on with their day. But I actually found people in the south of France much, much ruder when I was there (Montpellier is super fun, though). People in Northern France are generally very friendly and nice.
So it really depends on where you're going, but if you're in Paris, people probably won't give a shit about your unusual clothes, certainly not enough to remark on it.
They won't care about you being Portuguese/Italian, it's the Maghrébins they have a problem with.

[Anonymous No.6317469]

>>6317446
Oh, I'm learning french and by the time I go there it should be enough to avoid the language barrier thing.

>drop the second half of the words they say and speak mostly in gestures.
And this sounds quite funny to watch, actually.

Thank you~

[Anonymous No.6317475]

>>6317471
E:【ブランド・手作り】Brand, Hand made


・「厨ブランド（中高生向けの安いメーカー）」と呼ばれるブランドのアイ
テム
Cheaper brand ( for High schooler)
・技術不足でセンスの無い、安っぽい手作りロリィタ服
Not well made hand sew lolita dress with terrible fashion sense

F:【行動】Behavior


・地べたに直接座る
Sit directly on the floor
・がに股歩き
Walk like man
・下品な笑い方
Laugh in big voice
・ブランドに様付け（「BABY様」など）
Put "Sama" behind the brand name such as "Baby sama"
・「〜でしゅよ」といった赤ちゃん言葉
Speak like baby
・アニメオタク丸出しの行動
Showing too much Otaku spirit or Anime taste
・精神論者（ロリィタの精神云々を語る人）
Talking too much theory about lolita
・自称メンヘラの「構ってちゃん」
Pretend self not mentally stable, or living in a imaginary world
・他のロリィタさんに悪口を言う
Bad mouth other lolita

[Anonymous No.6317471]

>>6317461

B:【明らかにロリィタに合わないアイテム】Something that's totally not a lolita item


・ローファー（中高生に多い）
School shoes (For high school-er)
・一般的なスニーカー
Normal sneakers
・ピンヒールのパンプス
High heel
・ポインテッドトゥのパンプス
Pointing toe shoes
・メガネ
Glasses

C:【着こなし】Coordination


・JSKをインナーやボレロ無しで直接着用
Not wearing any blouse or Bolero or inner shirt
・パニエ＆ドロワーズを穿かない
Not wearing petticoat or boomer
・冬なのにコートを着ない
Not wearing coat even it is winter and snowing out there
・素足
No socks or tight
・大胆な露出
Showing too much skin
・コーディネートがチグハグ
Mismatch coordinate
・雑誌や広告のコーディネートをそのまま着た「制服ロリィタちゃん」
Wearing exactly coordinate as poster or magazine like "Uniform lolita"
・頭もの＆アクセサリーが無い
No hair accessories at all on the head
・しわくちゃヨレヨレ
Lots of winkles and stains
・汚れたり破れたりしている
Lots of tears or unclean.


・BODY LINEなどのコスプレ衣装
Buying Cosplay lolita clothes from BODY LINE
・アニメのゴスロリキャラのコスプレ衣装
Same style as a character in Anime or comics
・そもそもコスプレやメイドとロリィタを混同する
Dress as maid and claim this is lolita style

http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1232176517
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1079793210
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1347741448

[Anonymous No.6317476]

>>6316195
If you want to be judged as little as possible, don't wear lolita.

[Anonymous No.6317488]

>>6317464
>Maghrébins
Who are those? Sounds scary.

And ah, great. I was assuming that as a big city they really would be like that (always heard it's like that as well in NY and other equally big cities) but who knows.
Funny, though, I always assumed it would be the southern part of France that'd be friendlier (more africans, maybe? Not sure where my mind got that from).
And thank you!

[Anonymous No.6317514]

>>6317461
As already mentioned, Kaho's post is the VERY extreme view of ONE lolita. So don't take it as fact

[Anonymous No.6317532]

>>6317488
Maghrébins are Northern African immigrants. They tend to get a lot of shit from older French people.
Yeah, I dunno, maybe I just got unlucky when I was there, but I found the people in the south really... grumpy. Like, I am near-fluent in French and always make an effort to speak it, but people were just so surly towards me. Except in Montpellier, where everyone was really friendly and happy. I did go there in the middle of a gay pride festival, so that might have been why, haha.

[Anonymous No.6317544]

>>6317514
Yeah.. Some of that makes sense, like not wearing socks and having messy hair.
But being fat? Always having to wear a shirt under everything? No glasses?

As long as you don't look like shit, then you look fine.

[Anonymous No.6317577]

>>6317544
I really don't get the glasses thing. Some glasses can look absolutely adorable in lolita.

[Anonymous No.6317584]

>>6317532
Ah, thought so. I would also have a problem with them so I can understand. (not because racism but I feel the whole multiculturalism thing makes a country less patriotic and that's bad... but that's no subject to be discussed on /cgl/ why am I even saying this)

Oh damn, french-speaking AND having a gay pride festival. Sounds reeaally nice (is it just me or are gay people friendlier?)
About the grumpier people - maybe it was because the other places you visited weren't as tourists-oriented?

[Anonymous No.6317591]

>>6317584
>is it just me or are gay people friendlier?
It's just you. I've run into lots of horrible gay people, though there have been a few nice ones.

[Anonymous No.6317607]

>>6317584
It was great, I loved it so much. I don't know about gay people being friendlier overall, but there really is nothing like gay pride to perk up a whole city's mood!
And yes, I think that was part of it. I was visiting a lot of small market towns full of old people who didn't seem to take too kindly to foreigners. But the food you can buy at those markets is so amazing that it's worth the rudeness. Still, though, I found small, less touristy towns in the north to be very welcoming to visitors.

[Anonymous No.6317627]

>>6317197
>>6317208
>>6317231
You guys are great. thank you SO much! I'm especially happy to see that runthrough of what the shops are like, I had absolutely no idea what to expect!

Wow, while some of these make sense (messy hair etc) that is so harsh! I'm so sad she doesn't like pointed shoes with lolita, I love them.

>>6317476
I don't mind being judged, I do know it comes with dressing in lolita. I just want to avoid as much unpleasantness as possible.

[Anonymous No.6317643]

>>6317197
Oh, I'm sorry! Didn't notice the 'ask questions if you have any bit', haha. Maybe I have a link to that FB group? Are there any faux pas I should know about, when it comes to going to the shops or if I meet other lolitas? Would taking pictures be okay, or is that insulting?

[Anonymous No.6317673]

What's up with this sudden influx of people who sound like they're from livejournal or tumblr?

[Anonymous No.6317711]

>>6317673
I don't know if you're talking about me (OP) but I've been on 4chan since 2008. You can be polite and be on /cgl/ consistently, shocking I know.

[Anonymous No.6317719]

>>6317643
Japanese people are pretty weird about getting their photo taken so ask, ask, ask and be prepared to be turned down. And for the love of christ do not be one of those assholes on Takeshita who think it's Disneyland and shove their camera everywhere, although you don't sound like you would do that.

[Anonymous No.6317734]

>>6317711
So why are you asking these questions if you've been on 4chan for so long when we've discussed these kind of things before?

[Anonymous No.6317745]

>>6317734
Because honestly, I never thought I would have a chance to go to Japan so I didn't bother perusing those threads? Regardless, I couldn't find anything in the archives, and asking never hurts, right?

>>6317719
Haha, I would never be rude like that! Thank you.

[Anonymous No.6317757]

>>6317673
I don't know, but the typing in all lowercase and then suddenly using all capitals, or using ~*~*~*~, or acronyms that you could easily type out, or starting drama about fucking nothing are a dead giveaway for me and it's kind of grating on my nerves. Not referring to OP here, OP sounds relatively normal.

[Anonymous No.6317781]

Relax OP. First of all you're probably not going to see many lolitas at all. I spent 2 weeks in Japan this past April and I saw a total of 6 lolitas. 4 were walking around the Harajuku area and they didn't look that stunning. One looked old as hell and was wearing a bonnet that made her look silly, two were wearing bodyline and the other one was in baby. Overall their coords weren't anything to get too excited about. Another time I saw a lolita in the subway station. She was wearing AP but for some reason she had on sneakers. The last lolita I saw wasn't even wearing a petti. Maybe she was going for a casual look I don't know. So um yeah relax. Honestly I don't think anyone will care.

[Anonymous No.6317788]

>>6317643
I don't have the link but it's "Tokyo International Lolitas". The maintainer will probably want to know a little bit about you/when you are coming, just screening to avoid creepers.
Other than dress well, be polite and not obnoxious, not really.
Taking pictures in shops is strictly not allowed. I feel that lolitas are often a bit uncomfortable to be photographed, they're wearing the clothes because they like them, not to get attention. If you're wearing lolita yourself, compliment them on their coord and mention the print name or brand they'll be more receptive, but be prepared for them to say no or don't bother them if they seem uncomfortable. And always ask permission before taking a picture.

[Anonymous No.6318661]

>>6317781
Wow, Japanese girls actually wear Bodyline

[Anonymous No.6318795]

>>6317781
I remember hearing something about Japanese lolitas don't wear pettis until they get to their destination, as they're awkward/take up too much room on the trains and buses. Maybe the loli you saw without a petti had one in her bag or something.

[Anonymous No.6318994]

>>6317781
Uhh, I don't know what part of Japan you were in but in my experience lolitas can be seen floating around Tokyo pretty much every day. Granted I was there during their summer vacation, so a lot more girls obviously had time to go out in lolita, but on weekends they were especially everywhere.

[Anonymous No.6320581]

>>6318795
I read a lot of Japanese lolita blog posts about not wearing pettis at crazy crowded places like Disney Land because they will get in other people's way.

[Anonymous No.6320591]

>>6318661
Usually the young ones who can't afford brand yet.

[Anonymous No.6320592]

>>6317781
AP does make sneakers. Or maybe her feet just hurt. Tokyo requires A LOT of walking around.

[Anonymous No.6320857]

>>6315609
Stop being racist and don't say " i'm not being racist" Because you fucking are, you're only caring about what they think cause they're asian and nothing more.
You think asian people will think differently
Most asian people will think you're weird just like white people would.
The ones who don't are just used to it.

[Anonymous No.6320896]

>>6320857
Wow, what the fuck is wrong with you? I want to be respectful of a culture, and not be rude. That isn't being racist, that's being a decent human being. Asian people aren't different, but a culture that I've never truly been a part of will have a huge contrast of what I am used to. I don't care if they're asian, black, or pink elephants. I want to be respectful and that's not racist.

Calm your tits and go drink some calming herbal tea or something, jesus.

[Anonymous No.6320969]

>>6317475
Pretend self not mentally stable?
What if you.. don't need to pretend... is that okay?

[Anonymous No.6321450]

>>6320969
She means to claim to have a mental illness for attention. Not actually having one.