Gothic Lolita Thread

[Anonymous No.10922621]

I have recently gotten back into gothic lolita girls.
Please, lets post gothic lolita.

[Anonymous No.10922623]

but OP image isn't gothic lolita at all...

[Anonymous No.10922624]

>>10922623
That what i found when i look up gothic lolita.
If that's not gothic lolita then what is?

[Anonymous No.10922628]

>>10922624
nayrt, the OP image is more like some e-girl pastel goth combination. It's best to not rely on search results for what is or is not gothic lolita. The image in your reply is gothic lolita.

[Anonymous No.10922631]

>>10922628
And how about this?

[Anonymous No.10922632]

>>10922631

[Anonymous No.10922642]

>>10922621
I came from the /jp/ thread to add that since lolita is the board topic, don't forget to look around for existing threads such as >>10917166

[Anonymous No.10922643]

>>10922628
Don't even bother, there's a sub 1% chance this isn't just some troll. Actual beginners don't come to 4chan and post AI generated images. Ignore the whole thread and let it die.

[Anonymous No.10922645]

>>10922643
>>>/jp/47090866
It's just some person trying to get pics of gothic lolitas and apparently unfamiliar with various boards. Don't be unnecessarily hostile.

[Anonymous No.10922652]

>>10922643
>>10922645

3 out of 5 images seem to be AI generated. OP is just a troll.

[Anonymous No.10922663]

>>10922621
The absolute fucking state of cgl. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.10922664]

>>10922642
OK thanks.
>>10922643
>>10922652
Hey, i do have an interest and i am a fan of the gothic lolita style. How am i supposed to know what's AI and what's not? I hate AI.

[Anonymous No.10922665]

I just deleted all AI images from my computer.
I'm just a guy who got too excited and downloaded AI images by mistake when collecting gothic lolita images.

[Anonymous No.10922668]

>>10922665
this isn't gothic lolita either. It's pastel goth.
Google "moi meme moitie", go to images and you'll see a lot of gothic lolitas.

>>10922664
https://tech.co/news/ways-detect-ai-images-examples#:~:text=An%20image%20engine%20might%20generate,hair%20impossibilities%20may%20also%20help.

https://www.pcmag.com/articles/how-to-detect-ai-created-images

[Anonymous No.10922670]

>>10922668
Thanks. Is this better?

[Anonymous No.10922671]

>>10922665
> I'm just a guy who got too excited and downloaded AI images by mistake when collecting gothic lolita images.
I smell larp, either your a retarded cosplayer or a tourist trying to fit in.

[Anonymous No.10922677]

>>10922670
Much better. You might also enjoy searching Google for images of "Atelier Pierrot". Not everything they sell is gothic lolita though.

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>>10922671
I'm just saying the honest to God truth.
>>10922677
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.10922727]

>>10922724
Genuinely kill yourself

[Anonymous No.10922738]

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[Anonymous No.10922744]

>>10922727
Imagine being this mad over a misunderstanding.

[Anonymous No.10922745]

>>10922744
This isn’t a hehe haha silly little mistake, you have to genuinely fucking retarded to self insert yourself in a community you know nothing about. Especially one that has as many fucking resources in every corner of the internet like Lolita does.
I could keep going on about how and why you are stupid but I can only assume you’re either 12 or a tranny who fried his brain with pharmaceuticals

[Anonymous No.10922747]

>>10922745
>He's still going
I'm just a newcomer rediscovering something i like. If you hate it this much then just leave the thread. Nothing is forcing you to be here.

[Anonymous No.10922750]

>>10922747
This still isn’t Lolita fucktard

[Anonymous No.10922751]

>>10922750
>Look up gothic lolita
>Get as many images as i can from that specific search
Feels like you're just being too strict.

[Anonymous No.10922752]

>>10922747
It’s okay if you’re new but you should at least lurk more so you don’t embarrass yourself like you did with this thread. Cgl is pretty toxic to newcomers so it’s best to learn the “etiquette” before you make new threads, also double check the photos your saving aren’t pastel goth or cheap taobao dresses.

[Anonymous No.10922753]

>>10922752
I thank you for the advice and for being polite. Although i do have one thing to say.
>embarrass yourself
???
I'm not embarrassed, i don't see how that's possible here. I'm actually quite glad that i am learning more about something i'm into and i'm happy to be learning more about the culture.
It's not embarrassing at all, i'm feeling joy.

[Anonymous No.10922755]

>>10922753
There is no way this nigga is not a fetishist

[Anonymous No.10922756]

>>10922755
A lot of the photos they’re posting are actual gothic lolita, stop being a awful baiter.

[Anonymous No.10922759]

>>10922755
Point out what images makes you feel this way.

[Anonymous No.10922760]

>>10922753
anone, your pics "are not actual goth lolita" but your pics look cooler than what they have to offer in general, I recommend you look up punk lolita, kinda similar to your vibe in a way
>>10922755
>reeeeee scrote reeeeeee reeeee
cut us some slack

[Anonymous No.10922761]

>>10922760
>anone, your pics "are not actual goth lolita" but your pics look cooler than what they have to offer in general, I recommend you look up punk lolita, kinda similar to your vibe in a way
Thanks for the advice and i now acknowledge that a lot of different styles have been put under the umbrella of gothic lolita for one reason or another.

[Anonymous No.10922785]

it pleases me that OP is posting a lot of visual kei artists in gothic lolita. it brings nostalgia for the old days of asking guys if they think EGL Mana-sama is pretty.

>>10922751
>Feels like you're just being too strict.
no, garbage sellers tag their stuff as gothic lolita when it isn't. you should already know SEO kills accuracy in search results. furthermore, don't come to a place of experts in a subject and pretend you know better than they do.

[Anonymous No.10922786]

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[Anonymous No.10922788]

quality of materials is one of the main things that separates gothic lolita from other styles. (pic related, sumptious and decadent)

jirai kei sometimes borrows gothic lolita aesthetics within a "cute" fast fashion sensibility, if you want a style that is less elegant.

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[Anonymous No.10922808]

>>10922785
OP here.
For starters i'm not the one posting every image in this thread. Just wanted to be clear on that.
Secondly all i did was wanted to make a gothic lolita thread. I didn't even think of using this board, someone just pointed me in this direction. I never even claimed to be an "expert". I just wanted more gothic lolita.

[Anonymous No.10922809]

>>10922808
>For starters i'm not the one posting every image in this thread.
the true gothic lolita ones you have posted that are visual kei artists make me nostalgic. those are the only images my comment referred to.

[Anonymous No.10922810]

>>10922809
Ah. Well then i am glad that i have given you joy and i hope to provide more of it to you and others in the future through our shared love of gothic lolita.

[Anonymous No.10922826]

>>10922752
There's nothing wrong with taobao pieces, so tired of the elitist attitude in this community, not every lolita is going to spend $500 or more to enjoy a hobby, and not every lolita is a lifestylist. JP brands are scalpers, and at this point with a lot of recent releases from even AP are a quality similar to taobao. Btw, if you were to call people ita or tell them their coord is shit irl to their face at a meetup or just rando girls you see out in egl clothing, I'm pretty sure you'd get your ass beat or screamed at. Gothic lolita in specific is an offshoot of goth fashion/subculture, and goth is meant to be about self expression. Ita/shit coords used to legit be badly thrown together, mismatched accessories/OPs/Jsks/shoes, or dresses that you could tell were paper sack/shiny shit quality, not nice velveteen fabric or a somewhat acceptable cotton/poly blend. The coords you cackling bitches call ita or bad is fucking crazy, r/lolita has some people that look like literal clowns in comparison to what you even get in this thread.

[Anonymous No.10922827]

>>10922826
your reading comprehension can improve with practice

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[Anonymous No.10922835]

>>10922827
"Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning"

No, I think I perfectly understand that many of you are little narcissistic jealous bitches who like to shove your wealth in other people's faces, and get pissed when more attractive women wear egl and look better than you, and put them down by saying their coord is shit or by pointing out they refused to drop massive $$ on a side hobby. You're transparent as fuck. Keep trying to deflect, it's hilarious!

[Anonymous No.10922837]

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[Anonymous No.10922840]

>>10922805
For anyone wondering what OP blue hair girl is wearing it's:

https://lolibrary.org/items/chinese-indie-lilizi-thorns-short-op

You can get it here:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806022351168.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6a7e38daD5f0FX&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Leaving this here as I'd seen this dress alot and had always wondered what it was called and where to get it but no one would say.

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>>10922826
Nayrt and I think that's an interesting way of looking at it. There's some points I very much disagree on but also some I very much agree with.

Quality for a lot of brands has declined. But Japanese brand dresses don't typically cost 500$. Quality is a concern when you consider buying from Chinese brands. You can get chinese lolita items in a variety of levels of quality, but they're typically not at the level of Japanese brands (there are exceptions of course, and not all Japanese brands have the same quality). So is aesthetic. I have no brand loyalty so I'm not on the "bash taobao to fit in" wagon. I really wanted to like Chinese brand releases, and have kept my eye on new stuff for a long time, but the main pieces that came closest to the aesthetics I like were visibly lower quality than even current Japanese brand releases. So I eventually unsubscribed from the chinese lolita updates page. Opting for the highest quality available in a fashion that prioritises quality is not elitism.
JP brands are not scalpers. Scalpers buy popular items and try to resell them for considerably more than what they paid for it. They sometimes price their items at 2 or 3 times the original retail price.

Gothic lolita is not an offshoot of goth subculture. It's a type of lolita fashion that takes inspiration from gothic aesthetics. It's a sub style of the lolita fashion umbrella.
One of the reasons lolita fashion is still around today, instead of fading out or being diluted/absorbed into a different style (like what happened to several jfashions), is that it has a more precisely defined set of guidelines compared to a lot of other fashions. There is plenty of room for experimentation and self expression within the guidelines, but most of what I see in the ita thread does belong in the ita thread. A lot of what's posted in the ita thread also comes from r/lolita.

[Anonymous No.10922861]

Oh my God can you stupid fucks stop taking the bait and trying to have a genuine discussion with the most obvious trolls, I know a lot of our community is autistic but this is just too much

[Anonymous No.10922866]

>>10922853
>Malice Mizer
“Isn’t an offshoot of the gothic subculture.”
>Band is a mixture of Vkei but thematically, musically and visually goth.
>goth subculture is based off music

Yes, Mana from Malice Mizer made Meme Moite so arguably, gothic lolita created by the musical artist Mana, is also associated with/part of the gothic subculture, even if not western.

[Anonymous No.10922873]

>>10922826
>>10922835
>>10922866
who cares. gothic is more affordable and accessible than ever with atepie's in-house stuff alone, let alone every other brand they carry. there's no excuse but bad taste to buy the shit that was being referred to that uses "gothic lolita" for nothing but SEO. post more good outfits if you're going to continue making bad points just because you personally don't want to invest in your wardrobe and feel attacked that others do.

[Anonymous No.10922874]

>>10922873

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>>10922874

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>>10922875

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>>10922876

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>>10922877

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>>10922878

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>>10922879

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>>10922881

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>>10922882

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>>10922884

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>>10922885

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>>10922886

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>>10922887

[Anonymous No.10922891]

>>10922866
I didn't say it wasn't associated with goth. It takes inspiration from goth. But it's still a lolita sub style. Lolita fashion already existed when Mana popularised gothic lolita. He popularised a style of lolita that takes inspiration from goth aesthetics and their stage costumes. I don't know what else to say, if you don't understand it now you never will.

[Anonymous No.10922957]

>>10922861
it wouldn't be a gothic thread without arguing and gatekeeping

[Anonymous No.10922958]

>>10922876
nice, adding to skirt inspo

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>>10922826
Ayrt and I can tell your very new here if your saying things like “tired of the gate keeping in the lolita community”. Not only that, but you have taken my comment out of context to support your overused argument to justify buying taobao. The photo I was referring to is this >>10922747; The dress construction is very poor and the fabric isn’t good either, the ribbons and corset lacing are the type you’d see at party city. The excuse “Brand is expensive!” Is just lazy and unrealistic to today’s market, there are many options for affordable brand for anyone with a living income. The reason you took offense to my comment is because you don’t want to take the time to build a nice wardrobe and think lolitas are rich gossip girls, when in reality they have just been collecting for a long time. If you want to buy taobao go ahead, nobody’s stopping you. There are good taobao brands out there but they will charge over $100 (nwt) to cover material costs for good products.

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>>10922965
Not that Anon but the prices keep inflating everywhere and the money earned is getting smaller by comparison.

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>>10922965
Wait what lmao, I don't care for that dress in specific...where are you even getting this? I was pointing out that there are good taobao just like you're stating. its just that the brandwhore mentality is getting old imo. Also, once again not a lifestyle lolita, I don't need a "wardrobe" full of tons of it as it's a side hobby, I'm a goth who mainly wears trad/romantic style outfits but I used to be into egl in the 2010s. Again, not a collector/lifestylist, hobbiest.

[Anonymous No.10922998]

>>10922965
Nayrt, and exactly, if you want good quality materials you will end up paying for it regardless where you get it. There is no good quality + cheap combination when buying new.

>>10922976
Nayrt, the glass is half full. Take advantage of the weak yen.

>>10922995
Nayrt, but anon has a point. No seasoned lolita complains about brand prices, brand whores, elitism and gatekeeping. That, plus the claim that brand dresses typically cost 500$, suggests you are new to lolita. Or you're just not that interested in lolita, not interested enough to learn about the market and the people. Of course someone who is not that into lolita would recommend taobao, as it's typically cheaper (but also lower quality) than Japanese brands. You shouldn't be giving advice, you're not knowledgeable and invested enough to understand quality is a priority.

[Anonymous No.10922999]

>>10922998
The economy is fucked right now and that goes for everything with a price on it not just fashion. Feels like this i all just an excuse to gatekeep.

[Anonymous No.10923000]

>>10922999
iron gatekeeping is traditional gothic lolita

[Anonymous No.10923002]

>>10922999
>>10922998
Nope, again not new. I was around when Deerstalker pictures was at its peak and LovelyLor/Tyler was pretty mainstream in the community and Princess Peachy as well. I was very invested into "following the rules" of coords/color coding/themes ect. and got sick of all the bullshit associated with it, it did not/does not matter how well you coordinate something or even sometimes how much $$ you actually do drop on a coord as the community is generallu toxic, and you prove my point with your reply by trying to claim I'm "new" and don't know what I'm talking about. Ita used to be constructive criticism, but in egl you don't get that anymore, it's all nickpicky bs out of jealously.

The other anon here is right btw, the economy is fucked and it's actually insane to think people are going to be able to afford brand dresses.

>it's typically cheaper (but also lower quality) than Japanese brands

Also as stated before, this isn't really true, the quality of "JP brands" as a whole has dropped since the pandemic and lots of people have been complaining about it. An argument I've heard a lot is that lolita fashion is considered a "luxury" so that's why people justify being so insanely evil and rude about other ppls coords, but it's just really honestly depressing when you see actual new people get into the fashion, including young adults and young teens who don't have loads of $$ to drop on pieces, being shit on for not being up to these expensive "standards". Isn't fashion supposed to be about self expression/having fun and enjoyment? I mean with all the shit you get while wearing it, like being stared at, harassed verbally in public, made fun of, and then you also get shit on online as well by the very community you're meant to be a part of?

Maybe the appeal of the western lolita community is dying, and that's also part of why the fashion in the west is dying bc of how ppl are treated by others who wear the fashion that claim to be "experts".

[Anonymous No.10923003]

>>10922999
who is gatekeeping and what are they gatekeeping? It's not the brands or the economy. The large majority of lolitas do not care where you buy your things, what they care about is if it looks good. Home made pieces that are made well get more admiration than rare brand.

Lolita has always been a frivolous luxury hobby, it's definitely not the cheapest hobby and it has always cost money.
If you want good quality and spend less money just buy second hand or make your own. If you then say "but the pieces I want are double the original price secondhand" then you simply want a Ferrari without spending Ferrari money. That's not gatekeeping, you're just being entitled.

[Anonymous No.10923004]

>>10923003
>The large majority of lolitas do not care where you buy your things, what they care about is if it looks good.
>Home made pieces that are made well get more admiration than rare brand.

Amen.

[Anonymous No.10923005]

>>10923003
I'm going to assume tha t you're not the guy i replied to because it'd make no sense if that were true (Due to the sudden shift of attitude and logic being used) so i'll just inform on what's going on here.
We're saying that brands are getting too expensive and that other guy is saying that the other guy must be new because with lolitas it's either those brands or GTFO.
If gothic lolita doesn't care and isn't about how much it costs then that means the brand doesn't matter so tell this to the other guy.

[Anonymous No.10923006]

>>10923002
>I was very invested into "following the rules" of coords/color coding/themes ect. and got sick of all the bullshit associated with it.
The guidelines are what keeps lolita alive, they are what makes it lolita. Otherwise it would have faded or absorbed by another style like many other j-fashions.

>the community is generally toxic
>people justify being so insanely evil and rude about other ppls coords.
>get shit on online as well by the very community you're meant to be a part of?
I have found the large majority of lolita spaces online and irl to be very pleasant and the people very nice and helpful. But it's funny you complain about supposed community toxicity and then visit CGL on your own accord, so any discomfort you may be feeling as a result is 100% self inflicted.

>people don't like my low quality dress, they must be jealous.
No one is jealous of people wearing lower quality clothing.

>it's actually insane to think people are going to be able to afford brand dresses.
most people I know are buying brand dresses (new and second hand). It has always been a frivolous luxury fashion, if you can't afford it it's probably not something you should be into.

>Also as stated before, this isn't really true, the quality of "JP brands" as a whole has dropped
You seem to not understand what "typically" means. Even with the decrease in JP brand quality it's still generally better quality than most chinese brands.

>including young adults and young teens who don't have loads of $$ to drop on pieces.
this has always been the case and is nothing new.

>Isn't fashion supposed to be about self expression/having fun and enjoyment?
yes it is, but if it's not lolita then don't call it lolita. If you're happy with your low quality clothing and hate jp brands for costing what they do then that just means you don't love lolita.

If you don't have the money to buy quality new or second hand then just make it yourself you lazy bum.

[Anonymous No.10923008]

>>10923005
I'm >>10923003 and I'm also the person who said you sound like you're new or just not invested.

>with lolitas it's either those brands or GTFO
I didn't say that and it's not true you retard. Quality is important, if you can't buy it then make it.

>If gothic lolita doesn't care and isn't about how much it costs then that means the brand doesn't matter so tell this to the other guy.
It's not about where you got it or what brand it is, or if it's home made or not. If you're going to buy clothing then you're just going to have to pay more for quality. Quality is important to the look of the fashion, always has been.

[Anonymous No.10923009]

>>10923008
Actually you didn't tell me i'm new or not invested, that was a different Anon.
If you wanted the guy to make it then you should have just suggested that in the first place instead of starting drama.
Again, if it's about the quality then you should have just said so instead of insulting the guy and make crazy implication.
Feels like you just need to learn how to properly communicate with people.

[Anonymous No.10923010]

>>10923009
Oh i almost forgot to mention.
The whole "Just make it yourself" thing also doesn't work as not only would that other guy need to learn how to make clothing but he would also have to purchase the materials to make it, and that leads us back to the economy being fucked.

[Anonymous No.10923014]

>>10923009
ayrt, and I was the anon that said "suggests you are new to lolita. Or you're just not that interested in lolita".
It's not an unreasonable assumption to make that if someone doesn't really know what they're talking about they're either new or just not that invested.

But moving on to address your point.
>If you wanted the guy to make it then you should have just suggested that in the first place instead of starting drama.
The topic was about buying lolita, not making lolita. And I shouldn't have to even say it's an option since it should be common sense. But since at least one person was upset that good quality costs money, and unable to move past that fact, and someone claimed gothic lolita was all about the brands and how much you spent on it I mentioned it.

>The whole "Just make it yourself" thing also doesn't work as not only would that other guy need to learn how to make clothing but he would also have to purchase the materials to make it,

Firstly learning a valuable skill and making an effort for your hobby isn't a downside, if you love this hobby you should want to do those things if buying is out of your budget.
Secondly buying good quality materials still costs you a lot less money out of your wallet than buying a good quality dress, even in this economy.
I can get decent cotton twill (which is what most higher quality cotton dresses are made out of) for 10$ a meter. Plus cotton lace, a zipper, a thread, some buttons, it will be total max 70$, and it will be the same quality as the materials used in the better jp brand pieces.
If that still sounds like too much money and/or too much effort you're simply not invested enough.

[Anonymous No.10923015]

>>10922999
>>10923009
jesus christ summer just started and we're already infested

[Anonymous No.10923017]

>>10923014
Like i said, i'm not the guy you told that to. And all the guy was doing was saying how expensive it is.
Then why bring up making lolita? Also, sounds like you're a rich snob (No offence) with how this is worded as you're talking as if everyone can afford everything. Don't blame others for what's the economy's fault.
First, not everyone has the time to learn a new skill but that doesn't mean they don't care about it. It's like saying people need to know how to play hockey to be a hockey fan. It's things said like this that makes it feel like you're trying to gatekeep.
Even materials nowadays cost too much. Like i said, the economy is fucked. If you can't see just how fucked it is then maybe you are just too rich for your own good.
And yes, $70 is too much. And fuck off with that "You're not invested enough" bullshit when the problem isn't investment it's the economy. It doesn't matter how invested someone is they won't be able to make a dress if they can't afford it.
You really do not have any empathy for those who are struggling with the cost of living.
>>10923015
Says the guy resorting to thought terminating clichés instead of actually confronting my post. I've been on 4chan for years now.

[Anonymous No.10923022]

>>10923017
>been on 4chan for years now
>still on this shit derailing a half-decent thread on this slow-ass board
lol
it's not a matter of empathy. lolita has a certain bar for quality for it to be considered participating in the fashion. luxury hobbies are not something you're entitled to, struggling or not. your options are buy something of quality, make something of quality, or accept your shit quality article of clothing will not be considered lolita by the wider community. there is no secret third thing.
is it really that difficult for you guys to attach a picture and contribute in addition to your essays or what
>>10922958
i'll dump some more skirts from her

[Anonymous No.10923023]

>>10923022

[Anonymous No.10923025]

>>10923023

[Anonymous No.10923027]

>>10923025

[Anonymous No.10923032]

>>10923022
>>10923023
>>10923025
>>10923027
its a man!!!

[Anonymous No.10923034]

>>10923017
gb2 reddit poorfag. "wahhh the economy!!!" what is your solution here? to change the basic requirements and long-established values of a 40+ year old fashion subculture?

why should the community lower our standards to accept costume-tier mass produced taobao sacks - thereby devaluing the fashion, its history, and the labor of love that is complex apparel manufacturing - just to soothe poorfags' hurt feelings during a temporary recession? please get real.

[Anonymous No.10923035]

>>10923032
it's not a man and people like you are why she left

[Anonymous No.10923036]

>>10923022
I wasn't the one who started this but i'll admit you have a point so here's an image from me.
Also to address your point on the matter like i said people just can't afford to buy or create such dresses but they don't need to to participate in it. Like i said, people don't have to play hockey to be a hockey fan.
I also thank you for being polite about this.
>>10923034
See this is what i mean when i say gatekeeping, no empathy and rich snob.
This guy does not empathize with those who can't afford the fashion, looks down on them for not being able to afford it like him, and he's trying to get those who can't afford it to leave.
And no, no one is saying to change the culture, we're just saying the prices should be lower.

[Anonymous No.10923037]

>>10923017
>And yes, $70 is too much

it's a luxury hobby, I don't know how many times we need to say this in order for you to understand. Luxury costs money and you can't do this hobby on 20$ a month. Maybe if you saved up a year you would be able to buy an entire outfit, but that's only 1 outfit a year. Lolita fashion has always been a luxury hobby, so if the economy was magically fixed lolita fashion would still be a luxury hobby.

I make just over minimum wage so I'm not rich. I've just been buying 2nd hand, buying new and making my own stuff for over 15 years. These are all things I suggested anon should do.

If someone doesn't have at minimum 100$ a month in disposable income (and maintain a healthy financial buffer at the same time) and doesn't have enough free time to learn how to sew they have much bigger problems in life and shouldn't be complaining online about the fact that luxuries cost money.

No-one is saying you can't like what lolita looks like. It's just that in order to be a lolita you need to actually wear lolita fashion, and that costs money. So your hockey analogy doesn't work. No-one here is gatekeeping lolita, it just costs money. You cannot blame the economy or other people for this.

If anyone here is struggling with the cost of living they shouldn't be whining about the cost of a luxury hobby and blame the economy and imagined gate keeping. They should get their priorities straight. You sound incredibly entitled.

[Anonymous No.10923039]

>>10923036
Nayrt, why are you using "this guy" and "him" so much? 99,99% of lolitas are female. You can safely assume someone posting anything lolita related is female unless they say otherwise or they post fetish content.

[Anonymous No.10923040]

>>10923036
first anon you replied to
>>10923034 is saying the exact same thing i am. they're not a rich snob, or trying to get anyone to leave. by you "saying the prices should be lower", what you're saying is that corners should be cut somewhere in order for prices to lower, because there's no way for them to magically get lower. you're saying we should compromise on quality, design, materials, and/or paying the people that run brands out of their passion for lolita fair wages. that is trying to change the culture, and will result in a worse fashion.
lolita brands are not massive. AP, baby, moitie - none of them make a whole lot, and smaller brands make even less. they don't set prices arbitrarily high. they set prices to cover the rising costs of labor and materials. recessions do not affect exclusively consumers.
admiring the fashion is one thing. expecting reality to alter before you so you can participate is another. to wear lolita, you have to wear clothes that qualify as lolita to other lolitas. it's not some mean gatekeeping thing, that's just how hobbies work.

[Anonymous No.10923041]

>>10923036
>we're just saying the prices should be lower
and here is where you're outing yourself as knowing very little about lolita. lolita fashion is well known for having an extremely high value for cost ratio. it is a niche subculture with designers that produce for the love of the fashion, not for excess profit; this isn't western normie fashion where profit margin is directly correlated to brand reputation. in lolita, you get what you pay for. these brands can't just lower prices - or in many cases, even maintain prices - and keep to the same quality standards. case in point being modern angelic pretty and moitie.

this is not a case of manufacturers and brands wildly price gouging to generate exclusivity and hype. this is high-end apparel manufacturing with complex patterns, expensive materials, and often custom fabrics and lace. when you cut corners to lower cost, it shows - not to mention the ethical issues of outsourcing this kind of heavily-detailed sewing labor to sweatshops. which is what's happening when you dip under $70.00, unless the garment in question literally looks like a sissy dress up costume.

[Anonymous No.10923042]

You want to know something really stupid, one of the things that bothers me about the idiots here claiming what I'm talking about is costume tier shit, is that I'm not, a dress I'm a big fan of that even got dropped in this thread is called "Lilizi ~ Thorns Short OP" (picture) and it's fabric appears to be a velveteen, it's not tacky or shitty imo, its not a "sack". And yes it's taobao. My personal gripe has been for years, that I do not like the lack of diversity in design concepts for dresses/prints I see from JP brands, I can browse atelier pierrot and meme moite all day, even secondhand and I hardly find things that peak my interest in terms of design, why? because it's very repetitive and I like a very specific aesthetic surrounding my own outfits. It's this "box" that people want others to stay in that's so crazy to me, like how many of the same/similar printed Angelic pretty dresses or Baby dresses can you have, or the same blue and black moite pieces or ruffly atelier shit can you own without getting bored with it after a while. It's like "oh look, AP released another cupcake, rainbow glitter vomit print for the 15th time! Here's my $250 for it!"
If you have a good eye, and can actually pull off something from an obscure brand, hell not even just a Chinese indy brand, but even obscure jp lolita shit (yes it exists), and coord it so it doesn't look like a dumpster fire, then why should anyone give a shit. As long as you're not wearing the shiniest shit tier polyester sack dress, then is it really an issue? No.

[Anonymous No.10923043]

>>10922826
You can get good second hand brand that is higher quality and will last longer for not a lot more than taobao garbage sheets. Have you bitches who claim brand costs 500 never looked at the secondhand market or what

[Anonymous No.10923044]

>>10922976
If you can't afford cheap secondhand brand you can't afford taobao either desu

[Anonymous No.10923046]

>>10923037
Reading this i feel like there has been some misunderstandings on both sides so i'll try to help clear them up.
What we're saying is that the fashion is too expensive, but we aren't saying that we want to wear the stuff but that doesn't mean we don't have love or aren't invested in the style, same goes for girls who want to get into it but can't afford it, just because we don't wear it for one reason or another doesn't mean it's impossible for us to love and invest ourselves in gothic lolita. Like i said with the hockey analogy, people don't have to play the sport to love and be invested in it.
And if i may be bold to speak out on this, i believe that all fashion, not just gothic lolita, should not be a luxury. Be it gothic lolita, 80s styles or even wild west fashion i say that people should be free to wear whatever they want without having to worry about high prices, having the prices so high limits people's freedom in expressing themselves through fashion.
TL;DR all fashion should not be a luxury, it should be a freedom.
>>10923039
I just assume everyone on this site is a man until proven otherwise.
>>10923040
I'm not saying they should cut corners, i'm just saying that the economy should stop inflating. Like i said earlier everything being said is a problem that affects everything with a price tag on it, roys, games, DVDs, etc, and that's not even getting into what's needed to survive such as food and shelter.
We're just pointing out gothic lolita fashion as it's apart of this thread but all in all it's just a small part of the bigger picture, the bigger picture being how inflation is screwing people over world wide.
>>10923041
What i said earlier about fashion should be a freedom and inflation addresses this post.
But i will add that, yeah, i know, i already knew about this, i just don't agree with it.
It's like big fancy houses being expensive. Like yeah, i know that and i know why but i don't agree with it.
>>10923044
OK.

[Anonymous No.10923047]

>>10923042
holy shit can you people please go outside. literally no one in the community cares if you wear decent quality taobao. if you wore this OP to an irl comm meet i'm sure you would get plenty of compliments. no one, "brandwhores" included, is actually having meltdowns over randoms wearing taobao. talk to lolitas in real life.

> As long as you're not wearing the shiniest shit tier polyester sack dress, then is it really an issue? No.
except the other anon is trying to advocate for the acceptance of shiny polyester sacks. the thorns short OP originally sold for 645 yuan / $89 usd, before international shipping. the other "guy" LARPing in here is bitching over no options below $70, all costs and shipping included. and that just is not possible without slave labor or a low quality product.

[Anonymous No.10923048]

>>10923035
that anon's "it's a man" claim is extra funny considering all the men that have been posted itt without comment

[Anonymous No.10923049]

>>10923046
>i'm just saying that the economy should stop inflating
kek. you must be 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.10923050]

>>10923047
>literally no one in the community cares if you wear decent quality taobao
Not that Anon but if that's true then why are we even having this discussion in the first place?

[Anonymous No.10923051]

>>10923049
>He doesn't find anything wrong with the current inflation
What country are you living in?

[Anonymous No.10923052]

lolita is not expensive. it is not even very profitable for the major brands. compared to other fashion collection hobbies (sneakerheads, designer purses) the cost is more than reasonable.

fast fashion is an exploitative, polluting industry. gothic lolita brands die because they lack funds and refuse to adopt exploitative industry practices. if they compromise on materials quality, labour costs, etc., they lose their soul.

anyway here's some nice details. h.Naoto hand-dyes the dragon leather.

[Anonymous No.10923053]

>>10923047
>holy shit can you people please go outside. literally no one in the community cares if you wear decent quality taobao

No apparently people DO CARE because the infighting in this whole ass thread started because it was pointed out that in some people's eyes there are decent taobao pieces, and some spazz came out of the woodwork to claim that "the fabric is all shit quality!! no all of it's crap!! blah blah it's a luxury fashion so spend more MONEY!!! pooooorrrfagg!!"

Also, I've been to meets, none of them have been pleasant experiences, mainly because I could only attend once or twice a year as it was in a main city and the commute was insane, the rest of the com was a clique, people hardly wanted to talk with the newcomer or person that can only attend for ILD.

[Anonymous No.10923054]

>>10923052

[Anonymous No.10923055]

>>10923046
i mean idk dude go stop inflation from existing and bring all fashion to everyone then i guess, the rest of us are operating within the framework of our reality
>>10923050
because it started defending dresses like this >>10922747 that are tagged "gothic lolita" exclusively as a search term, it has nothing to do with taobao vs brand. the original point was explaining why advocating for dresses like that should be considered within the scope of lolita is pointless. pic related, kunonoku put out a cute, simple line that's pretty nice. skirt's like $36.
>>10923052
god i love h.naoto thanks anon

[Anonymous No.10923056]

>>10923050
because people who only interact in online lolita spaces and never talk to other lolitas in real life like to parrot dramatized community stereotypes as fact. sure, there are plenty of lolitas online who buy exclusively brand and/or shit on taobao, but as long as you're coording well and buying quality pieces, no one is going to bat an eye or care that you're not in japanese brand. if anything, they will probably gush over your coord being from taobao if it's really that well made. lolitas love a deal, provided it maintains certain standards.

besides, many lolitas' issues with taobao isn't even the quality - it's the design elements. mid-thigh skirts, boob windows, idol costumes disguised as "idol lolita". many chinese brands have steered away from the core lolita silhouette to the point their garments look like vaguely lolita-inspired costumes and not wearable clothing, but are still marketed as such. that, in combination with poor quality fabrics and cut corners in manufacturing, is why many lolitas choose to avoid taobao entirely. it doesn't mean they're melting down over random jenny #1 with a closet full of miss point.

[Anonymous No.10923057]

>>10923055

[Anonymous No.10923058]

>>10923054

[Anonymous No.10923059]

>>10923056
>>10923047
Not all of us live in a main city in the US that has a lolita com where meetups occur, some of us live in obscure ass neighborhoods or the countryside where you'd be lucky to even see an alt person let alone a lolita.

[Anonymous No.10923060]

>>10923051
no one enjoys inflation. sperging out about how "all fashion should just be free!!!!" and "the economy should just stop inflating!!!!" is retarded. maybe consider enrolling in summer economics classes instead of wasting your time off from school on 4chan. it's clearly not doing you any good.

[Anonymous No.10923064]

>>10923046
>What we're saying is that the fashion is too expensive

you should understand that it's very expensive to get these lolita items made. The reasons for that are;
-smaller production runs. A lot of manufacturers aren't willing to produce the relatively small amount of items that lolita brands want to have made for them. The ones that are willing to do it charge more.
-lolita items tend to have a lot of small details that are time consuming to sew which means it takes much longer to make these items compared to most mainstream items, the price goes up if an item takes longer to produce.
-a lot of manufacturers aren't even willing to make these detailed items, the ones that do charge more.

if you consider the material costs and manufacturing costs you would understand that these small brands have very small amounts of profit per item. It is not too expensive for what you're getting if you buy it. That you, or some other people, may not be able to afford to buy them is another thing entirely.

How can you be invested in a style you don't want to wear? Comparing this to sport fans doesn't work since you need a certain skill level (that most can't achieve no matter what they do) to play the sport professionally. Everyone can wear lolita as long as they're willing to pay for it or invest the time that it takes to make.

>same goes for girls who want to get into it but can't afford it
those girls that can't afford it lurk and learn about the fashion whilst they are saving up for it or waiting to get a better paying job. What they don't do is claim that it's too expensive. Fans of the style that don't wear it aren't welcome in the large majority of lolita spaces.

>i believe that all fashion should not be a luxury. Be it gothic lolita etc, i say that people should be free to wear whatever they want without having to worry about high prices
and how do you propose this is achieved?
Government sponsored lolita brand items?

[Anonymous No.10923066]

>>10923064
The day the ccp sponsors lolita brands to further the communist agenda, kek

[Anonymous No.10923068]

>>10923055
>i mean idk dude go stop inflation from existing and bring all fashion to everyone then i guess, the rest of us are operating within the framework of our reality
Well it takes more than one to make changes, and i'm not even the one who started all this.
>because it started defending dresses like this >>10922747 that are tagged "gothic lolita" exclusively as a search term, it has nothing to do with taobao vs brand. the original point was explaining why advocating for dresses like that should be considered within the scope of lolita is pointless. pic related, kunonoku put out a cute, simple line that's pretty nice. skirt's like $36.
Honestly feels like an overreaction to go into this much of a feud over that one dress.
>>10923056
From what i can tell the people you're against have met gothic lolitas in real life through meetings.
>>10923060
Honestly feels like you're the one who needs to learn how to socialize better.
>>10923064
Yeah i know it's expensive to make, doesn't change my views on the matter. It all just goes back to the inflation issues.
Also admitting that it's expensive to make contradicts telling people to just make it themselves.
And yes, it is possible to be invested in gothic lolita even for those who don't wear it. Remember the hockey analogy anon. Not to mention all the men who are into gothic lolita but can't wear it because they're men.
not every girl who wants to wear the style is able to afford it at all, no matte how much they save or what job they get.
Saying that fans who don't wear the style aren't welcomed is literally gate keeping. Have you ever been to any of those spaces yourself?
Wanna know how it's achieved? Deflation.

[Anonymous No.10923069]

[Anonymous No.10923070]

>>10923059
my entire point is that no one cares outside of the internet and you shouldn't either. if you don't interact in lolita spaces irl, there's no reason to make sweeping generalizations like "all lolitas are judgmental brandwhores who hate all taobao and will only accept you if you wear japanese brand" - or internalize those sort of statements when they're parroted on sites like /cgl/. wear your lilizi and your princess chronicles. be free. don't wear a shein-tier sack and call it lolita, and you're good.

[Anonymous No.10923071]

>>10923046
>I just assume everyone on this site is a man until proven otherwise.

a large portion of CGL is female. Almost all of the people participating in the lolita threads are female.

>Like i said earlier everything being said is a problem that affects everything with a price tag on it
Like I said earlier, even if the economy was fixed lolita fashion would still be a luxury hobby and go for luxury hobby prices.

>It's like big fancy houses being expensive. Like yeah, i know that and i know why but i don't agree with it.
If you understand why it's expensive, why do you not agree with it? You're acting like people should undervalue their time so you can buy better things. That's the entitlement. If you're not willing to pay enough for a product so that the people making it can have a wage they can actually live on then idk what to tell you.

>>10923047
100%

>>10923050
because that anon isn't willing to spend what decent quality taobao dresses cost.

>>10923052
it's expensive in the sense that it requires a lot of money to get a decent outfit. It's not expensive if we look at it from a value for cost viewpoint. It's not too much for what it is.

>>10923053
>some spazz came out of the woodwork to claim that "the fabric is all shit quality!! no all of it's crap!!
where in this thread was this claimed?

People in the comm aren't going to give you lots of attention if you barely participate and you aren't willing to do what it takes to build a wardrobe. That's true for every hobby community. These people barely know you. They're not going to remember someone who posts a coord once or twice a year.

[Anonymous No.10923072]

>>10923070
Anon i think that guy is on your side.

[Anonymous No.10923075]

>>10923071
A large portion of people on here are female, OK.
Like i said, fashion shouldn't be a luxury. For example the people in the middle class should be able to wear the same fashion as those in the upper class if they want to. Without having to pay more than average priced fashion.
I disagree with it because people of any class should be able to wear any fashion they want. That's not entitlement, it's just wanting the classes to be more equal. And lets be real here, most of the money made off of the fashion goes to the big wigs of these companies and the people who actually work hard making them.
>because that anon isn't willing to spend
Not willing? Sounds like they just can't afford it, yet the way you word it makes it sound like they can afford but just choose not to buy it.

[Anonymous No.10923077]

>>10923068
>admitting that it's expensive to make contradicts telling people to just make it themselves.

it's expensive to make because of the reasons I mentioned. If you're making it yourself you're only paying for the materials.

>Yeah i know it's expensive to make, doesn't change my views on the matter.
if you understand it's expensive to make then why do you think they should charge YOU less? If they did that they would lose money.

>Remember the hockey analogy anon
I already explained why the sports analogy doesn't work. You should work on your reading comprehension.

>not every girl who wants to wear the style is able to afford it at all, no matte how much they save or what job they get
If that's true (and its not, you can still DIY) then they still shouldn't complain and demand that brands charge them less.

>Saying that fans who don't wear the style aren't welcomed is literally gate keeping.

It's called the lolita community, not the "fans of lolita community".

>Wanna know how it's achieved? Deflation.
Even if that's possible it would still be a luxury hobby with luxury hobby prices. Lolita was expensive when the economy was good too.

[Anonymous No.10923078]

>>10923075
>For example the people in the middle class should be able to wear the same fashion as those in the upper class if they want to.
people in the middle class CAN buy and wear lolita. But it won't cost the same as average priced fashion because average priced fashion is less expensive to make and often uses slave labour.

>most of the money made off of the fashion goes to the big wigs of these companies and the people who actually work hard making them.
lolita brands aren't rich. It's a labor of love. Many of them are almost constantly operating near the bankruptcy line.

>people of any class should be able to wear any fashion they want.
deflation still wouldn't make this a reality. Or do you want government sponsored lolita?

[Anonymous No.10923079]

>>10923077
Like i said most of the money goes to the big wigs. If they don't hord all the money then there wouldn't be as much problems. Same goes with every industry desu. Also same could be said for the less luxury fashion lines so maybe the big names should just start making lines with cheaper materials.
I'm not saying they should charge me less specifically i'm talking about everyone below the upper class. I'm a man so i can't even fit in those dresses nor am i interested in actually wearing luxury clothing, i'm talking for the people. And i doubt they'd loose money by allowing more people to afford their clothing. In fact i'd say they'd make more money as they'd be allowing more people to buy from them. Another Anon stated earlier in this thread that gothic lolita lines don't last long as they lose money anyway so why not? There'd be nothing to loose.
You're explanation is just BS. The hockey analogy works. People don't have to directly take part in something to love and be invested in it. People can still love and be invested in something even if they're just watching on the side lines.
Like i said, even the materials needed to make dresses themselves are hard to afford in this economy and they have the right to want clothing to be easier to afford.
Even fans are apart of the community. You don't have to be gothic lolita to be apart of the community, just loving it and being a fan of it is enough. Like i said, this is gatekeeping behavior.
Well then they should deflate the luxury part of the industry so it isn't so luxury anymore.
>>10923078
Yeah no shit, that's exactly what i'm saying, i'm just also saying that it should cost the same as average priced fashion.

[Anonymous No.10923080]

>>10923079
They aren't rich, OK. Well then that completely contradicts all of your defenses for it being expensive. If they're not making much money anyway then there's nothing to loose by making it more affordable to more people. If it's a labor of love then it shouldn't matter how much money they make from it but how many people get to experience it and get to share that love. The idea of gothic lolita brands being labors of love and not making much money is something i know to be true and something i agree with, and it's also something that tears down the defense of the clothing being expensive. If that's the case, and it is, then the pricing is a corporate decision and not from the people making it. I even go a bit into this in my previous post.
Well like i said maybe just deflate the more luxury clothing but government sponsored fashion is a good idea not gonna lie.

[Anonymous No.10923081]

>>10923079
please, o wise moid, grant us your wisdom. should these dresses be the same price?

[Anonymous No.10923082]

>>10923075
Lolita is solidly middle class affordable. it is not affordable if you're living paycheck to paycheck or if you're an instant gratification addict and can't stand to take your time to build a wardrobe rather than having everything you want at once. Actual rich people clothes are orders of magnitude more expensive than the most expensive Lolita brand

[Anonymous No.10923083]

>>10923080
If they make it more affordable for you they can't afford the cost it takes to make it and operate their business at all, then no Lolita clothes get made. Congratulations you did it

[Anonymous No.10923085]

>>10923075
>fashion shouldn't be a luxury
Fashion *is* a luxury. It's not food, or housing, or electricity; you do not need it to live. Fashion is a hobby and hobbies sometime cost money to participate in.

If you're having trouble affording $200 dresses maybe try finishing high school first and getting a job a tier above fast food/retail.

[Anonymous No.10923087]

>>10923079
>Like i said most of the money goes to the big wigs. Same goes with every industry desu
except this quite literally does not apply to small businesses in the creative sector. many lolita brands, particularly gothic brands, have staff teams of under twenty. you do not know what you are talking about.

if you're going to run this half-baked anti-capitalist manifesto online, at least know what you're advocating for. fashion is a wonderful method of self-expression, but it is not a human right. you acknowledge the issue of corporate greed, and yet in the same breath shout "just deflate!! deflate!". so where should we cut costs? should designers and seamstresses and warehouse fulfillment techs and shipping carrier employees not be paid a living wage? you mention making clothes with cheaper materials - so your grand solution is to manufacture petrochemical fibers made through unsafe, environmentally damaging melt spinning processes in a boiling sweatshop in indonesia?

lolita is not a necessity. real people's livelihoods depend on cost at every stage of the process. capitalism sucks, sure, but blindly talking out of your ass about manufacturing costs on /cgl/ is not going to dismantle neoliberalism. you certainly aren't doing anything for the movement when you're this ignorant.

all that aside, lolita fashion has the cult following that it does because of the high quality of the fabrics used and garments produced. it is elegant, long-lasting, luxurious clothing. never tacky or cheap. it is not a costume. it is designed to be worn again and again. no one wants a poly sack that's going to disintegrate in three washes. the fashion at its core is built around quality and taste.

[Anonymous No.10923090]

>>10923085
this. fabric costs money, and lolita uses a lot of it. production/sewing costs money, and even at mass production level quality lolita is expensive to produce due to all of the detail work and complex patterning. a good quality dress can cost $100 or more in materials at the consumer level with the cost of fabric, lace/trims, and patterning materials, and most brands don't have large enough production lots to be saving that much with wholesale.

brand interviews have also mentioned that many brands do not make a lot of profit, and even the CEOs live on bagged lunches and bike to work. it's all very much a passion project and even with prices the way they are many brands have gone under due to the sheer overhead costs.

clothing isn't always a luxury, but designer clothing (some lolita brands even qualify as semi couture) is absolutely a luxury. i think if more people tried DIY once in a while they'd appreciate how difficult and expensive these clothes are to produce

[Anonymous No.10923093]

>>10923090
>i think if more people tried DIY once in a while they'd appreciate how difficult and expensive these clothes are to produce
100%

[Anonymous No.10923095]

it would be awesome to live in a post-capitalist utopia where the only limit to your wardrobe is your own imagination. in reality, it is unethical to give money to high-pollution sweatshops just because you feel entitled to cheap clothing.

a lot of goth fashion developed as a reaction against consumerism. fast fashion sweatshops love to appropriate the styles developed by people who hated them. bad taste, cheap materials, and poor construction are never worth the "savings".

[Anonymous No.10923096]

[Anonymous No.10923097]

[Anonymous No.10923098]

[Anonymous No.10923099]

this thread has been a shitshow from start to finish. from AI moid who "got back into gothic lolita girls" (not even getting into this part) to Freidrich Engelita talking about how lolita, a fashion with a notably low profit margin, is some sort of evil capitalist empire.
that being said, I'll dump some pics anyways lol

[Anonymous No.10923100]

>>10923099

[Anonymous No.10923101]

[Anonymous No.10923102]

>>10923100

[Anonymous No.10923103]

>>10923102
nice summer coord

[Anonymous No.10923104]

>>10923102

[Anonymous No.10923105]

>>10923104

[Anonymous No.10923106]

>>10923105

[Anonymous No.10923108]

>>10923106

[Anonymous No.10923114]

>>10923090
>>10923093

I saw this happen up close when a friend asked if I could make her a lolita dress. I had the impression she thought it wouldn't take very long. I said "no, I won't make one for you. But I can help you make one". That very day she said "there's much more involved than just the sewing, sorry I thought it would be done within an evening. I didn't know you had to do all of these things before you can even start the sewing, I thought you could just buy your fabric and start" after I laid out all of the preparatory steps before the sewing can even begin. She also mentioned the brand pricing made a lot more sense to her afterwards.
There are probably a lot more people who think that, once you have learned how to sew decently, it's quick and easy for you. With lolita that's definitely not the case. All of those gathers, trims and pin tucks take a long time to do. Using specialty sewing machine feet (for rolled hems, gathering, etc) helps a lot but it still takes a long time.

I had another "friend" ask me to make him a dress too, so I went with the same tactic of offering to make one together and he noped out immediately. That was a case of "if you do it it will be quick and easy, hardly any work at all. But I don't want to put in the time myself because my time is valuable".

I tried to post a pic but it said "image limit reached".

[Anonymous No.10923125]

>>10923114
yeah and all of that also hinges on you already knowing how to use a machine or sew by hand. it's definitely not something any beginner could start and shit out something passable in one try. when someone makes good handmade items, it's because they probably spent a lot of time (and made a lot of ugly practice items) to get there. like you said, specialty sewing machines help, but even that's a skill.

i get this impression that people think that because clothing can be made in sweatshops, it must be easy and unskilled labor, but that isn't the case, and that's obvious when you see cheap indie brands releasing the ugliest clothes you've ever seen. lolita isnt like a t shirt with a standardised pattern, and not all factories or ateliers have the skill necessary to assemble the clothing correctly; it's why you'll see cheap brands have issues where patterns don't line up, or aren't cut along the right bias, or other basic construction problems. that isn't even getting into what goes into designing a dress that doesn't look like trash.

sperging aside it drives me nuts how many people don't understand or appreciate what goes into a quality garment (but it doesn't surprise me, since they also by and large can't tell the difference between quality and garbage in general)

[Anonymous No.10923126]

>>10923039
Cause this person is a larper and everyone is taking the bait. They're assuming everyone on the board replying is male because they are male and assume it's the default

[Anonymous No.10923127]

>>10923042
No. I was interested in this dress. You know why I didn't buy it? The price. There's no way to make something of good quality with that price. Do you own this dress? Can you post pictures of it? I knew for a fact the dress I would get would be nothing like the pictures.

[Anonymous No.10923132]

>>10923125
My first lolita sewing project was bloomers, and luckily I didn't make any mistake. It just took me a long time to do because I was learning. I borrowed my aunt's sewing machine and finished the fabric edges with a zig zag stitch. I had close to zero sewing experience before that. After that I tried to make a skirt with a regular waistband. That gave me trouble because I didn't attach the fusible interfacing well. I think I had to redo various parts of the skirt. My first lace topped socks also came out terribly.

About the sewing machine feet; there are lots of instruction videos on youtube that make it very easy to learn to use those feet. No more cursing at the rolled hem foot.

>not all factories or ateliers have the skill necessary to assemble the clothing correctly
I don't remember if it was AtePie or Meta, but I remember a brand mentioning that they had trouble finding a manufacturer willing to do detailed work. I think it was meta with their pintuck jsk.

>it drives me nuts how many people don't understand or appreciate what goes into a quality garment
a lot of people are used to fast fashion quality these days, it's hard to convince them that you used to be able to buy shirts that lasted for over a decade with regular wear without fading or warping. Now you have the option of fast fashion or more expensive fashion that is very similar in quality to fast fashion.

[Anonymous No.10923141]

>>10923132
>a lot of people are used to fast fashion quality these days, it's hard to convince them that you used to be able to buy shirts that lasted for over a decade with regular wear without fading or warping.
shein et al have destroyed people's perceptions of clothing. instead of clothing as something to value, landfills are absolutely filled with mountains of unusable fast fashion that was worn a few times (or not at all). unlike lolita, there is zero reusability.

[Anonymous No.10923149]

>>10923081
Around the same price yeah. I admit there is more materials used on the one on the right so if it's going to cost more it should at max be just $5 more, at least $3.
>>10923082
Fair, it's not as expensive, but keep in mind that i keep saying "all fashion" for a reason. But yeah, the paycheck to paycheck thing you mention is also part of the problem and a lot of middle class people live that way.
>>10923083
Like i said i'm not saying this for me i'm saying this for the people. And if they make it more affordable more people will get their hands on it meaning less clothing just collecting dust in a warehouse. If they can't do that then at least put them on sale more often.
>>10923085
Dresses shouldn't cost $200. It's a hobby? Well prices for hobbies are getting too high. Not just fashion but people are also complaining about the high prices for videos games and LEGOs for example.
>>10923087
Even small businesses have people at the top that benefit from the hard work of others. Not saying all, but they do exist. And like i said if they're that small and doing it for the passion then it'd make sense to care more about how many people can get their hands on it over how much money can be made off it.
I'm not saying they should cut costs, i'm saying those cost should deflate as well. Deflate the prices for what's used to make the dresses. Do you not know what i mean by deflation? I'm saying deflate everything, not just the dresses.
I know fashion isn't a necessity but it should still be a freedom. And yes, i do know about manufacturing costs in more than just the fashion industry, honestly feels like you're just misunderstanding me here due to only focusing on a specific fashion style and not the world at large.
Yes, it has a cult following, but it should be more than that like with every other fashion. You know why i keep bringing up gatekeeping? It's because of this attitude that insists that not everyone should wear the style if they can't afford it.

[Anonymous No.10923151]

>>10923090
The first two paragraphs here can be addressed with this. They're passion projects, that's great, and if they're not making money anyway then they have nothing to loose by making it more affordable.
And i'm saying designer clothing shouldn't be a luxury.
>>10923093
>>10923114
>>10923125
>>10923132
>>10923141
Me and my have worked on clothing before, so does my grandma, along with blankets, not to mention the hard work we put into making other stuff, and we all believe in everything i have been talking about.
>>10923126
Yeah, i'm a man, and i assume everyone on this entire site is also a man until proven otherwise. Doesn't mean i don't have love, interest and investment in the style.

[Anonymous No.10923154]

>>10923151
>They're passion projects, that's great, and if they're not making money anyway then they have nothing to loose by making it more affordable.
the thing they lose by making it "more affordable" is the brand no longer existing. like this has to be bait you can't actually be this dense?

[Anonymous No.10923156]

You're all wasting your time trying to explain basic economics to some knuckle dragging retard tourist moid who literally just learned what lolita is 3 days ago and lacks the cognitive ability to even distinguish AI from real human beings. Actually depressing that this is the most active lolita related thread on the board right now, /cgl/ is so dead.

[Anonymous No.10923158]

>>10923156
admittedly we haven’t had such retarded bait in ages. i couldn’t help myself. we hardly get to sperg out re: lolita on this board anymore

[Anonymous No.10923160]

>>10923154
Oh, please, now this is just paranoia. I have seen small businesses give away products for free and still keep their brand.
>>10923156
Now you're just demonizing me out of not being able to handle someone disagreeing. I didn't learn about lolita recently, i have known about it for over a decade now and i have recently gotten back into it months ago. And as i stated before i only got those AI images because i rushed to get gothic lolita images and didn't look into them as i was excited to share my love and passion for the style. And gothic lolita specifically, don't know why people keep saying lolita in general when this thread is dedicated to gothic lolita specifically.
And you telling me that after causing drama days ago you decided to stay in a thread that you hate? Why, to cause more drama? Maybe /cgl/ wouldn't be so dead if people like you weren't such toxic gate keepers.
>>10923158
Not bait, i'm dead serious, always have been.

[Anonymous No.10923162]

>>10923158
Nayrt, but I'm thinking he's serious. You can't make this shit up, it's too weird.
Also kind of amusing seeing how stupid he is.

[Anonymous No.10923164]

>>10923162
Fuck off, i know what i'm talking about. Try getting your mind out of the status quo and think about how things can be better.

[Anonymous No.10923166]

>>10923160
Nayrt, but these small businesses can't continue offering their products for lowered prices if it means they're now losing money. They won't be able to pay their employees and pay for the rent of the stores and the head office.

These brands do give-aways of small items, that they get specially produced for the occasion, quite often. That is a very different thing from lowering prices on your standard merchandise to the point where you're not making enough money anymore to pay for the costs.
Believe me when I say the large majority of these brands are not making a profit, they're barely able to make enough to cover all of their costs. There is little to no wiggle room with the pricing, and stuff usually doesn't rot in a warehouse somewhere since it all gets sold. Most of these brands don't have enough left over items to even do a sale with. They have promotions, collaborations and special occasion items that only get sold once and never get rereleased. But those things are not the same as a sale or lowering all prices.

[Anonymous No.10923169]

>>10923166
Like i said, if that's true, if they're loosing money no matter what, then best to allow as many people as possible to buy the dresses instead of keeping them stored away, or at least put them on sale once in a while.
Well that great of them and i do believe you when you say they don't make a profit, i always did, but that brings me back to the thought of if they're not making money off of them and it's for passion then why not at least put them on sale once in a while.
I have seen small businesses do the same before, even going as far as to give away products for free, and they do jsut fine, in fact for them it's so much about the love and passion that they can loose money and they'd still be happy puuting it out there.

[Anonymous No.10923173]

>>10923160
we literally lived through a mass die-off of beloved brands and we struggled to help other brands stay alive. you have no skin in this game.

furthermore, every time someone points out your mistakes (e.g. assuming everyone here is male, using generated images), you over-explain yourself. your reasons don't matter because your actions (believing seagulls are male, using ai, etc) were incorrect. i sincerely recommend you lurk moar.

[Anonymous No.10923177]

>>10923173
And let me guess, all the brands that died off were expensive and helping the others stay alive was a struggle because they too were expensive.
Here's the thing about those actions, i admit that they were wrong , i acknowledge that most people here are female and i even went out of my way to purge my computer of all AI images

[Anonymous No.10923190]

>>10923169
>Like i said, if that's true, if they're loosing money no matter what,

If they keep going like they are right now they won't be losing money and risking closure (some small brands might, but not the mid sized ones). If they do start to lose money and it's inevitable that this will continue they will have to close within a few months because they won't be able to pay for their costs anymore. If you can't pay your employees they will have to find another job in order to live. A passion project is nice and all, but people still need to eat. Having a sale won't save the company from going under.

>or at least put them on sale once in a while.
most brands sell out completely during a release so they won't have stock sitting in storage. If they frequently had stock leftover then a sale makes financial sense, but they simply don't tend to have leftover stock so they have no good reason to do a sale. They use other ways to promote their brand (limited edition gifts with purchase, limited edition gifts only available at certain events, etc). I hope you now understand that most of those brands simply can't do sales, they're not in a financial position to do so.

>>10923177
nayrt. There generally isn't a lot of difference in the price of japanese brands. The brands didn't go under because they were too expensive, they went under for a variety of other reasons such as not having a large amount of people interested in their specific aesthetic anymore, or (in case of many small brands last year) overhead costs had risen so much that they couldn't keep the brand going and have enough money to live at the same time. Like I said before, people still need to eat regardless of how much they want to keep their brand going. They simply couldn't afford to stay in business because of the rise in overhead costs. They have 2 options in that case. Either close the brand or increase the price of your products to compensate for the rise in overhead costs.

[Anonymous No.10923191]

>>10923177
same as >>10923190 continued.
If they increase the price of their products they run a very large risk of pricing themselves out of the market unless every other brand increases their prices by roughly the same amount. Small indie brands (which are usually just one person designing and running the brand, and 3 to 5 other employees) have higher material costs per garment compared to mid size brands, so these indie brands are much more affected by increases in the price of materials.
They know they will most likely be pricing themselves out of the market if they increase the price of their products so they choose to just end it before they get into too much debt trying to keep the business running. A sharp increase in material costs last year was the reason some indie brands closed. The average price of a japanese brand dress is not a problem, enough people are able to buy their products in order to keep the brand going and this has always been the case. If a brand dies it's because of other reasons.

[Anonymous No.10923196]

>>10923190
>>10923191
I don't want this to become a wall of text and i already have said what i think about most of what is said here so i won't repeat myself so i'll just give a TL;DR of what i feel about what you just said.
From what i can tell, what needs to happen is some big changes in the worldwide economy, basically what i've been saying for what, half this thread now? (Apologies for basically repeating myself here despite saying i didn't want to do that just kinda happened this way)
Basically the economy is fucked and there's a bigger picture to all of this, but the thing we need to focus on is that people shouldn't be shamed and/or told they don't belong just because they can't get their hands on a gothic lolita dress once in a while. People don't need to own a dress to be into gothic lolita, styles are also made for people to look at and simply looking at them while not being able to wear one doesn't make anyone less invested in it or loves it less than those who do wear gothic lolita. It's like paintings, just because there are people who can't paint doesn't mean they can't be fans and love and invest themselves into paintings.
Think about how people who make gothic lolita would feel reading this thread, they wouldn't want others to be accused of not being aart of the community or not being invested just because they can't afford their craft, they'd want people to get joy from the dresses they make even if they're unable to wear them themselves.

[Anonymous No.10923198]

>>10923085
“Fashion is a luxury” couture brand designer rips up shit quality shirt and slaps their logo on it, it appears on the runway and vogue “that’ll be $6000 for my shit shirt”. Also according to this thread, fashion in general is only for rich people and we should all be running around naked if we’re poor lmfao. I can guarantee if a well known designer went into a Goodwill, took a plain shirt and glued some shitty sequins on it and put their logo on it, rich cunts would be willing to drop tons on it. Some of you have never watched a modern fashion show and it’s telling. Now a days you see the stupidest shit get sold for tons just because “muh luxury designer label”. Btw, we never would’ve evolved to where we are with current clothing if someone hadn’t of fucked around with a sewing machine or needle and thread and experimented to find things that look “decent”. A lot of people in this thread could learn from other subcultures ways of making their own outfits, not everything has to come from Joe Ann’s fabric store, you can recycle old sheets or clothing into new designs.

[Anonymous No.10923203]

>>10923198
>hadn’t of
*hadn't've

[Anonymous No.10923208]

>>10923198
After this I'm going to stop responding, and i urge other lolitas to do so as well. This is either bait or someone who has no frame of reference because they are not a lolita. If you've owned lolita pieces, you would realize they are worth every cent, and sold with LOW profit margins, Custom lace is expensive. Lined clothes is expensive. Built-in petticoats are expensive. I urge you to look at the lolibrary page for kumya's strawberry garden. If you genuinely think that is something that should cost $50 then you are a fool and clearly do not respect the work of designers and seamstresses. Gucci is not even nearly comparable to lolita, because those brands are openly selling things that are overpriced.
fashion is not only for rich people, the problem is that our modern society is consumerist. fast fashion has made people feel entitled to whatever they want at the cheapest price possible, with no concern for quality. I think everyone is entitled to buy clothing, but not everyone is entitled to whatever they want if it means that the creators of what they want are bankrupted, or exploited in a sweatshop. A nice shirt or some jeans from H&M are incomparable to lolita.

[Anonymous No.10923209]

>>10922681
stunning

[Anonymous No.10923210]

>>10922752
>Cgl is toxic to newcomers
And that’s why it’s dead and has been dead for almost a decade. Be toxic to the rampant coomers instead or the lolcow dramafags. Smh.

[Anonymous No.10923220]

>>10923149
>Around the same price yeah. I admit there is more materials used on the one on the right so if it's going to cost more it should at max be just $5 more, at least $3.
/thread

[Anonymous No.10923221]

>>10923210
I can only imagine what this place was like last decade.

[Anonymous No.10923224]

>>10923210
if toxicity was what kills a board's activity then explain why /pol/ is the most trafficked board on this site

[Anonymous No.10923225]

>>10923198
You're embarrassing yourself. Just stop. It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about if you think lolita is anywhere near high fashion. Poor and uneducated? Pick a struggle.

[Anonymous No.10923233]

>>10923198
>fashion in general is only for rich people and we should all be running around naked if we’re poor

fashion and clothing are two different concepts that overlap a lot. Practical clothing that protects you from the elements is a basic need like food, water and housing. Everyone should be able to access clothing so they don't have to be naked and suffer the elements. Fashion is everything about clothing that's related to aesthetic styles and trends. It is not something you need in order to stay alive.

Lolitas are not the idiots who are spending couture money on garbage items like you described. Lolitas care about the quality and the design, not the brand that made it.

>>10923196
>From what i can tell, what needs to happen is some big changes in the worldwide economy, basically what i've been saying for what, half this thread now?

I understand that you're an idealist, but we asked you multiple times how you would create the reality you want and you never gave a feasible solution. You don't seem to understand the reality that value cannot be created out of nothing, that people have to eat and that if the state gets involved that money still has to come from somewhere. And if you understand it you are completely ignoring this reality.
We cannot have a conversation about a real life situation if you pretend certain crucial facts do not exist. It does not matter how many times you repeat yourself. You know nothing about economics and even less about gothic lolita.

>we need to focus on is that people shouldn't be shamed and/or told they don't belong just because they can't get their hands on a gothic lolita dress once in a while.
the community decides what it acceptable within the community. And the verdict overwhelmingly seems to be that the community is by lolitas for lolitas, and people who don't want to wear it or do want to wear it but make no steps to actually make that a reality, are not welcome.

[Anonymous No.10923236]

>>10923208
he sounds like someone who hasn't even finished high school yet but has a fetish for gothic lolitas. I'm not saying we should go easy on him though, I'm done with that.

>>10923191
you came into an online lolita space (which is what lolita threads are on CGL) and started with your dumbfuckery spouting nonsense about stuff you know nothing about, and then don't want to listen to people who do know what they're talking about. You deserve all the criticism you get.

[Anonymous No.10923237]

>>10923236
the last reply was meant for >>10923196

[Anonymous No.10923245]

>>10923233
Apologies if i never gave my answer for a feasible solution, i thought i did but i guess i didn't. I believe that it's going to take a lot more than just a few people to make changes (No duh right?) but i know that to start the current world leaders and governments are going to have to have to either change or be replaced to be more for the people as well as the 1% needing to have less power, but now that'd be going into off topic political discussion and i don't want this thread to be sent to /b/.
The community decides what's acceptable? Well as history has proven time and time again communities always change its views and all it take is just a few open minds being able to open more minds. It's what the community decides, but there's always going to be new directions that the community will take, and i know that if it's not today then one day the community's views will be shifted. All it takes is patience and understanding.
>>10923236
>>10923237
Feels like you're angry and the way you're talking feels pretentious, no offence. I think, in fact i know, that you should chill out and maybe then we can help each other understand belter.

[Anonymous No.10923248]

>>10923224
Not that Anon but politics are more toxic in nature than fashion, much more. Not to mention that this is a blue board.

[Anonymous No.10923251]

>>10923248
That's the point I was making.

[Anonymous No.10923255]

>>10923236
seconding this sentiment on this poster (who is, i believe to be, OP) being a young, stupid fetishist. seriously supposing world governments spend taxpayer dollars on fucking fashion like poverty, maternal mortality, and murder are not bigger issues.

[Anonymous No.10923266]

>>10923198
this board is for discussing cosplay and lolita fashion. western couture is not relevant

[Anonymous No.10923387]

>>10923255
I wasn't even the one who brought up the idea of government mandated fashion.

[Anonymous No.10923388]

>>10923266
What about cosplaying western characters.

[Anonymous No.10923393]

>>10923388
honestly that might be a better topic than whatever the hell is going on now. hit it nonny.

[Anonymous No.10923476]

>>10923266
No, but it definitely has an influence on things. The fashion industry as a whole especially in western countries has a lot of similarities to the industry in the east. Lolita is no different. I can guarantee that if these lovely Lolita brands started shitting out ugly ass designs with mid tier or shit tier quality fabric, you gulls would still shill out a few hundred dollars to look like a walking laughing stock, just to be able to say it’s Baby or Angelic Pretty or Moite. It’s a popularity contest, people claim they care about quality but with the recent releases for some brands, it’s clear people don’t truly give that much of a shit, and it’s more about the “name” of the brand and being able to shove it in other people’s faces.

[Anonymous No.10923490]

>>10923476
ap HAS been releasing shitty, lower quality designs and /cgl/ has complained the whole time. Don't believe me? check the angelic pretty thread. some people did buy because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but i think the dissatisfaction was noticeable for AP, because they've started using cotton again.

[Anonymous No.10923553]

>>10923085
I don't understand why people in and out of this board start shitting and crying if this is mentioned. You're not entitled to luxury clothes. You're not entitled to lolita. You're not entitled to clothes that fit you. You're not entitled to shit. I could scream and cry and stomp my feet that my country just applied massive abusive custom fees to prohibitively price anyone out of importing and nothing would change. The rest of you are spoiled toddlers used to getting what you want if you scream enough, wtf. I can't tell if it's ameritard delusions "I want it so I DESERVE it because I'm special!11!!" or if some of you just got everything as a child for free and can't take a no.

I'm not going to die without lolita, you are all going to be fine I promise. Absolute crybabies. Some of you need to go through actual poverty or some shit

[Anonymous No.10923575]

>anons having all kinds of serious conversations and debates in an obvious coomer thread
OP literally admitted to being a moid and y'all still doing this kek

[Anonymous No.10923603]

At this point this board is 95% moids/trannies larping with eachother, I don't know why you're surprised.

[Anonymous No.10923614]

>>10923108
does anyone know if muffy/cadaverqt has any social media where she posts her coords? she got me into lolita, I'm sad she deleted all her old accounts

[Anonymous No.10923687]

>>10923553
“Couture” fashion is a luxury. Also, I’m sure there are Lolita’s that are actually going through poverty currently as the economy is terrible right now. Not sure where you’re getting the idea that people think Lolita in specific is something people are entitled to. Fashion really is just a trend, and quite honestly if people were throwing literal used garbage bags on themselves and walking it down a runway and calling it couture, I can guarantee some idiot would buy it and wear it as a badge of pride for their wealth and horrid taste. I mean if you want to get a bit catty, Lolita fashion is often mistaken for cosplay even when someone is wearing high quality and expensive well coorded pieces, because people associate whatever they’re already familiar with culturally, and unfortunately for a lot of people that’s anime. I mean it’s really up to you if you want to dress ridiculously in frilly clothes, and gatekeep/humiliate people who spend less money on looking just as outlandish, but don’t act like it’s some luxury when it’s not even publicly acknowledged or perceived by most people as being luxurious/desirable, it’s perceived as weird and cringey. Imagine, getting pissed at other autists for also being just as weird as you and getting made fun of by the same normal people in public, but then somehow thinking your better than them because you spent a few extra hundred dollars on a slightly less cringe coord.

[Anonymous No.10923722]

>>10923687
Who gives a fuck about normal people and what they think?

[Anonymous No.10923752]

>>10923476
Stay mad poorfaggot

[Anonymous No.10923766]

>>10923149
I used to think that you were just a normal dude interested in lolita but obviously you’re just a stupid moid. Do you genuinely believe… with all 3 brain cells in your head that Elizabeth OP costs 3 dollars to make? Fabric can easily cost up to 100 dollars nowadays and that’s not even counting the labor involved with making a piece like this. You’ve never touched a needle and thread in your life yet you feel so confident in giving a bullshit answer like this. We have given you all the important information and you still manage to stick it up your ass and hope something comes out your mouth worthwhile. Please peacefully exit cgl.

[Anonymous No.10923770]

>>10923766
Fuck off drama whore, i am a fan of gothic lolita and i don't actually have to make a dress to be a fan of it, that's like saying people need to make a cartoon to be a fan of them.
Also how obsessive it is to get mad at a post made days ago. You're really intentionally trying to derail this thread into drama at this point.

[Anonymous No.10923782]

>>10923770
You know what to do.

[Anonymous No.10923784]

>>10923782
I do, and i'm staying here.

[Anonymous No.10923797]

>>10923770
Another important tip on cgl is if you want to stop derailing a thread, you need to stop responding. The reason why we’re dragging you is because you claim to understand the dress making process and how much making a garment costs, so we would expect you to have sewing experience. If you don’t have that experience, that’s totally okay but you shouldn’t be making claims about a garment’s value. Lolita fashion is a very niche and difficult fashion to sew so naturally brands will charge more to pay off expenses. If you’re asking the question “Why don’t lolitas just learn how to sew their own dresses?” Well that’s the difficult topic. Another big reason (not already mentioned) is because Many “loli-able” fabrics and materials used for making lolita dresses are rare to come by at normal stores. But the main reasons for the expenses and why lolitas don’t sew their own dresses is because lolita dresses are just difficult to sew plain and simple, if you don’t believe me just look at lolita reddits “DIY” section (or previous ita threads) and see how many dresses are of brand quality or look good.

[Anonymous No.10923826]

>>10923797
Few things i have to say about this.
For starters, i wasn't the one bumping the thread with toxic attitudes. It has been proven to me that even if i don't respond like you say i should the thread will still be derailed. I haven't responded for days now yet people here have proven that they can't let this go such as these two:
>>10923575
>>10923603
They didn't even respond to anyone specifically yet they still felt the need to derail a thread they apparently hate.
Another thing is that i never made such claims, all i did was agree with someone who said the stuff is too expensive. The only claims i made is that i am a fan, i am invested in and i love the style of gothic lolita and that's the honest to God truth.
And i also believe that a dress doesn't have to be brand quality in order to be good or classify as gothic lolita, the fact that people here are trying to gatekeep those who love the style by telling them things like "Everyone will laugh at you if you don't wear brands" is honestly disgusting behavior to me. You know those shows, movies, etc with characters who're snooty and rich who talk down to those who can't afford certain brands? Well it's like that.
I understand where you're coming from but at the same time i also know that the behavior and attitude of people in this community should be called into question.

[Anonymous No.10923859]

>>10923826
You are such a retarded newfag it's unreal. Please go back to R*ddit where you belong, you insufferable faggot.

[Anonymous No.10923864]

>>10923859
See it's posts like these that only prove me right. A bunch of gate keepers who seethe whenever called out on their behavior and start drama on threads they don't even like when they can just leave.

[Anonymous No.10923867]

>>10923864
No you're just dumb and people get tired of being nice when you are a brick wall that comprehends nothing you are told

[Anonymous No.10923868]

>>10923867
You people weren't being nice from the start. Don't act like you weren't just a group of alpha bitches and drama whores.

[Anonymous No.10923870]

>>10923868
We are alpha bitches. You seem to not understand where you are. You n00b itas want to be held, rocked, and spoonfed, which is why I suggested R*ddit to be more your style. Go there, plenty of people will want to kiss your ass in the hugbox setting you so desire. You either have a fashion sense and dress nicely, or you don't and you fucking lurk until you figure it out. Or you never do, which seems like the path you're headed on.
Your thread sucks by the way, no one gives a fuck about your whining and complaining.

[Anonymous No.10923871]

>>10923870
So yeah you admit it, you see this is why this board is so dead, and you should be thankful for that because if it were any more alive then mods would actually do their jobs and ban your asses.
And, if this thread really sucks then it's all your faults, and if no one gives a fuck then you wouldn't still be here whining and complaining yourself.

[Anonymous No.10923872]

>>10923826
Nayrt, You claim to be a fan of the gothic lolita fashion style, but you don't seem to understand why quality is important for the style and what a reasonable price is for a quality gothic lolita dress. And then when people who know far more about it than you do explain why it's important and what it reasonably costs you don't want to listen to them.
If you truly were a fan you would be more than willing to actually learn about the thing you say you're a fan of.

[Anonymous No.10923873]

>>10923872
I am a true fan of the style, you're just gate keeping.

[Anonymous No.10923874]

>>10923871
Go back you creepy faggot moid, no one cares about your whiney attitude.

[Anonymous No.10923877]

>>10923874
Like i said, if no one cares then you yourself wouldn't have this whiney attitude over me.

[Anonymous No.10923881]

>>10923873
part of what makes the style the style is the quality. It will look a lot different if you try to make it low quality.

[Anonymous No.10923883]

>>10923881
You know what? Fair enough, i'll give you that, although i doubt any intentionally tries to make the style low quality i will admit you have a point.

[Anonymous No.10923893]

>>10923883
just like with anything if something is even remotely popular for long enough there will be businesses trying to cash in on it. This is the case with gothic lolita as well.
Some businesses have copied designs of gothic lolita dresses and have made them with low quality materials. When a business/shop copies the design of another brand/business/shop we call that a replica. A lot of replicas are considerably lower quality compared to the original.
Some of these businesses are scammers, they will use pictures of dresses that belong to another shop/brand/business and if you buy from their listing you will receive something that doesn't look like the picture they used in the listing.
Some of these businesses aren't scammers but aren't exactly honest businesses either, they will show you a picture of their product on the listing page but they will have made it look a lot better through the use of lighting and filters, so that when you receive your item it will be a massive disappointment.
Some other businesses will show you a picture of their product that is true to what it really looks like, and they're hoping to attract customers who are interested in gothic lolita but who don't know enough about the style to recognize what is or is not gothic lolita. They often title their listings like "gothic lolita maid cosplay japanese kawaii dress", sort of a mix of very loosely related terms. As you probably already know, gothic lolita fashion is a fashion style and not cosplay. So if a product listing mentions cosplay it probably isn't gothic lolita.

If anyone tries to make a gothic lolita dress with low quality materials it will look like a crappy costume instead of a luxurious alternative fashion. This is why using at least decent quality materials is important. Using good quality materials is more expensive and that's a part of the reason why gothic lolita dresses cost what they cost.

[Anonymous No.10923895]

>>10923893
OK. I see where you're coming from and i can understand it. I just want others to understand that just because something can be considered "low quality" doesn't mean the people wearing it aren't fans of the style.

[Anonymous No.10923902]

>>10923895
>something can be considered "low quality" doesn't mean the people wearing it aren't fans of the style.

I don't doubt it. It's not uncommon for people who just started their lolita fashion hobby to buy and wear low quality things because they haven't developed the eye for it yet. The community tries to protect beginners from making these mistakes because it's a waste of money. So we have guides that show beginners how to tell good quality from bad quality, how to recognize a scammer, and where to get good quality items if your budget doesn't currently allow you to buy items straight from the brand yet. This is why I don't understand the accusation of gate keeping. The only thing we ask of people is that they are willing to learn. I would not consider that gate keeping but rather a reasonable request considering how much we do for each other for free within the community.

[Anonymous No.10923903]

>>10923895
I don't think most people actually care that someone likes the style without wearing it. Most lolitas were interested in the clothes for awhile before they made their first purchase anyway. Those comments mostly come when people show up in a community trying to make things about themselves or act like an authority about the fashion when they aren't taking part in actually wearing it.

[Anonymous No.10923906]

>>10923902
>>10923903
Now we have reached an understanding, thank you.
And if you're wondering about the gatekeeping accusations i'm talking about the people in this thread who were insulting me and someone else. But you guys are cool.

[Anonymous No.10923921]

>>10923906
4 comments ago you told me I was gate keeping. You've also had a fairly terrible attitude for most of the thread, even towards kind commentors explaining to you how the industry works and why things are priced the way they are. Like I already said before, the only thing we really ask of people is that they are willing to learn. Not only were you not willing to learn from other people who knew a lot more about the topic than you did, you also claimed that things were actually the opposite of what you were being told, insulting the indie brands started by people from our community in the process. Not cool.
How would you like it if I came over to your corner of the internet, and started talking nonsense about a hobby you knew a lot about and had been participating in for years, that I insulted cornerstones of your hobby community and told failed indie brands they had it coming and accused them of being too greedy when the reality is that they could not afford to stay in business, and that I claimed you were gate keeping any time anyone disagreed with me?

And that's not even touching on the communist talking points being shoehorned into the thread.

You're not off the hook, even a little, just because you were finally willing to listen a little bit.

[Anonymous No.10923952]

>>10923921
dont waste your time arguing with men. they get off to this, dont fucking bother. op is a scrote, hide thread, move on.

[Anonymous No.10923970]

>>10923921
>4 comments ago you told me I was gate keeping. You've also had a fairly terrible attitude for most of the thread, even towards kind commentors explaining to you how the industry works and why things are priced the way they are.
I wasn't the one who started all this, i tried to be polite but people here just had bad gatekeeping attitudes, far worse than what you claim mine is. I do my best to be polite so if my attitude seemed "terrible" at any point then that's just due to how comments can seem worse than they actually are on the internet.
Also i say it's a double standard to complain about my supposed attitude while ignoring the attitude of others in this thread who have been out right bullying me.
Ever heard of fight or flight? Well i always choose fight. This entire thread i have just been on the defensive, i was never the aggressor, this all even started when i defended someone else from another poster trying to gatekeep them.
Don't act like i'm the bad guy here.
>Like I already said before, the only thing we really ask of people is that they are willing to learn.
This place is toxic, with one of those against me even admitting that this board is an alpha bitch club. Why should i want to learn from such toxic people? Your community needs to learn how to be polite if you people want others to wanna learn from you.
No one wants to learn from a community so toxic.
>Not only were you not willing to learn from other people who knew a lot more about the topic than you did, you also claimed that things were actually the opposite of what you were being told, insulting the indie brands started by people from our community in the process. Not cool.
I did no such thing. All i did was say that things are too expensive. If that's what you find insulting then no offence but that's just overly sensitive.

[Anonymous No.10923971]

>>10923970
>How would you like it if I came over to your corner of the internet, and started talking nonsense about a hobby you knew a lot about and had been participating in for years,
I'd be fine with it. Especially on this website. You ever been to /v/ before?
>that I insulted cornerstones of your hobby community and told failed indie brands they had it coming and accused them of being too greedy when the reality is that they could not afford to stay in business, and that I claimed you were gate keeping any time anyone disagreed with me?
First, like i said, have you ever been on /v/ before?
Second, the only truth to this is the gatekeeping claims but i only did that when people insult me and others and tell us to leave. Everything else you're accusing me of here just isn't true.
>And that's not even touching on the communist talking points being shoehorned into the thread.
Communist? Seriously? Now this is just silly.
>You're not off the hook, even a little, just because you were finally willing to listen a little bit.
Well then that goes double for the toxic members of this community who started all this.
I'm actually trying to be polite and end this peacefully but no, you're so insistent on stretching this out as much as possible.
I swear i have not experienced any other board this self righteous and unwilling to let things go. No offence but that's the honest to God truth.
>>10923952
This is sexist.

[Anonymous No.10924051]

>>10923970
You don't want to take accountability for your actions.
If this place is as toxic as you say it is, why are you here? The lolitas here, even the alleged toxic ones, still know a lot more about gothic lolita (and lolita fashion as a whole) than you do. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right. You were rude to some polite anons as well and you weren't willing to learn from them either.

The lolita community as a whole isn't toxic, quite the opposite in fact. Some places have become way too hugbox-y lately which isn't productive either. The lolita part of CGL has always been a rather unique online lolita space. There are pros and cons to the anonymity. CGL isn't representative of the online lolita community.

>I did no such thing. All i did was say that things are too expensive.

You said, and I quote: "Dresses shouldn't cost $200", and "let me guess, all the brands that died off were expensive and helping the others stay alive was a struggle because they too were expensive."
After it was explained to you that the price is not too high for what you're getting in return and that the brands that closed last year didn't close because of their prices (which were roughly the same as the brands still active today) you still didn't want to listen and doubled down with your alternative facts. You have some gall to think you know more about an industry than people who are actively a part of that industry when you are not. These indie brands were started by people from our own community. You're also in no position to call me overly sensitive when you yourself have a kneejerk reaction to every single fucking thing.

You are the bad guy here, at least what those "toxic lolitas" say here is true.

[Anonymous No.10924053]

>>10923971
>You ever been to /v/ before?
nope, and I'm not interested.

>the only truth to this is the gatekeeping claims
No-one in this thread was actually gate keeping though. And you can't gate keep someone from a hobby they have no interest in participating in in the first place.

>Communist? Seriously? Now this is just silly.

you yourself thought that a luxury fashion should be affordable to poor people and that businesses who barely make any profit as it is should sacrifice themselves so more people can buy their clothes.

>Well then that goes double for the toxic members of this community who started all this.
You started this by starting this ridiculous under-researched thread and getting huffy the very moment you receive criticism.

>I'm actually trying to be polite and end this peacefully but no
No, what you're trying to do is sneak off and shirk responsibility.

[Anonymous No.10924059]

>>10924051
>You don't want to take accountability for your actions.
I'm not the bad guy here, you should be telling this to the anons who have been attacking me throughout this entire thread.
>If this place is as toxic as you say it is, why are you here?
Because i'm actually a fan of gothic lolita and i refuse to leave just because some gatekeepers tall me to.
>The lolitas here, even the alleged toxic ones
Alleged? Have you not been reading what they've been telling me and others?
Stop ignoring their toxic behavior.
>still know a lot more about gothic lolita (and lolita fashion as a whole) than you do.
Doesn't justify their behavior.
>Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right.
It's not that i don't like them, it's that they're toxic and gatekeeping and that's a fact. Like i said, i am not going to learn from those with such toxic attitudes, even more so when they aren't trying to teach me anything.
>You were rude to some polite anons as well and you weren't willing to learn from them either.
I know for a fact that i have been polite to those who have been polite back. I have only pushed back against those who are toxic. I doubt you can even point to any example of me being against someone polite.
>The lolita community as a whole isn't toxic, quite the opposite in fact. Some places have become way too hugbox-y lately which isn't productive either. The lolita part of CGL has always been a rather unique online lolita space. There are pros and cons to the anonymity. CGL isn't representative of the online lolita community.
And i believe that, in fact i know that. I even went to find other gothic lolita communities because i know they'd be way more polite.
I never said that the community as a whole is toxic, only /cgl/, and the community as a whole not being toxic does not excuse this section of the community being toxic.
If you know other sections of the community that isn't as toxic as this then just point me in the right direction.

[Anonymous No.10924060]

>>10924059
>You said, and I quote: "Dresses shouldn't cost $200", and "let me guess, all the brands that died off were expensive and helping the others stay alive was a struggle because they too were expensive."
You took those as insults? Seriously? I wasn't insulting anything, the first one was a serious statement and the second was a genuine question.
>After it was explained to you that the price is not too high for what you're getting in return and that the brands that closed last year didn't close because of their prices (which were roughly the same as the brands still active today) you still didn't want to listen and doubled down with your alternative facts. You have some gall to think you know more about an industry than people who are actively a part of that industry when you are not. These indie brands were started by people from our own community. You're also in no position to call me overly sensitive when you yourself have a kneejerk reaction to every single fucking thing.
And i understand all of that, i do, i just disagree with it, and yes, you people are being too sensitive as you're all getting this upset over someone simply disagreeing.
>You are the bad guy here, at least what those "toxic lolitas" say here is true.
No matter how anyone looks at this, i am the victim here. Show this thread to anyone else and they'll know that it's the people in your community that are being the bad guys in this situation.
>nope, and I'm not interested.
Figures. If you've ever been to any other board then you'd know just how sensitive it really is for people to get so upset over such disagreements.
Go ahead, go spend a day on /v/ and see how sensitive /cgl/ is by comparison.
>No-one in this thread was actually gate keeping though.
I, and others, have been insulted and told to leave multiple times.

[Anonymous No.10924061]

>>10924060
>And you can't gate keep someone from a hobby they have no interest in participating in in the first place.
I mean this with from the bottom of my heart, fuck you. Seriously, fuck you. You have seriously pissed me off with this one. The entire reason why i started this thread and put up with the bullshit from you and your community is because i have a genuine honest to God love for gothic lolita and you telling me i never had interest in the first place? You're legit going to hell for that one. May God have mercy on your soul.
>you yourself thought that a luxury fashion should be affordable to poor people and that businesses who barely make any profit as it is should sacrifice themselves so more people can buy their clothes.
Yes, clothing should not be a luxury and you're being overly dramatic and paranoid about it.
>No, what you're trying to do is sneak off and shirk responsibility.
Again fuck you. I try to make peace but you can't handle a peaceful solution, you're so self righteous and you're harassing me over it.
And don't you dare try to pass yourself off as the polite one after you just went out of your way to offend me like you did.

[Anonymous No.10924062]

>>10924061
And wanna know what proves me right? The fact that a good chunk of the posts going after me got deleted. If you guys aren't the bad guys then the mods/jannies wouldn't have taken action.

[Anonymous No.10924063]

>>10924061
>You're legit going to hell for that one. May God have mercy on your soul.
I admit i went too far with this one. What you said really hurt me but i planned to delete this part but i got too worked up that i forgot to.
Again this one went to far so i apologies for it but i won't apologies for everything else i said in that paragraph unless i get an apology.

[Anonymous No.10924071]

>>10924061
>The entire reason why i started this thread and put up with the bullshit from you and your community is because i have a genuine honest to God love for gothic lolita
You actually don't though, regardless of being AI generated most of the photos you intitially posted were not even of gothic lolita but other styles entirely. You needed to be spoonfed about the major brands that founded the fashion when that's all day one information for new lolitas. If you don't wear the fashion, don't sew the fashion, can't consistently identify people wearing the fashion, don't know any of the brands producing that fashion or the people who built the community up, then what exactly is there to be a fan of? It's fine to have a passing interest in something or think gothic looking girls wearing poofy skirts are cute, but be honest with yourself. There's nothing wrong with gatekeeping people like you and the extreme unwillingness to do so in most hobbies has been their downfall. As for your /v/ analogy I highly recommend you go make a thread there and start arguing about what's good for the video game industry and what gamers want and how you know better than them, then admit you've never played a video game and only read Kotaku articles on the subject and see how that goes over.

[Anonymous No.10924083]

>>10924062
> If you guys aren't the bad guys then the mods/jannies wouldn't have taken action.
Jannies on cgl have been historically bad and shouldn’t be a basis for your claims on cgl members, literally blame anything else BUT the people that made it into a soft core porn board.

And remember that cgl is the “bad lands” of the online EGL community, they would have 100% accepted you on Reddit and on Facebook groups. We have already spoonfed you a lot on here and have given you more information then the Reddit girls even know about the fashion (and they’re actual lolitas lol).

Regardless of your intentions I hope you at least learnt how cgl operates and how we treat newbies. I remember when I was starting out on cgl and they didn’t even give me 3 sentences about the fashion, just a middle finger and the classic newfag insult.

[Anonymous No.10924127]

>>10924071
See now you admit to not only gatekeeping but even saying you think it's a "good" thing.
Yeah i admit at first i didn't know what i was posting wasn't gothic lolita, didn't know that there where any specifics, but i learned, wanna know why? Because i learned it from someone who was being polite.
I am a true fan of the gothic lolita style, i'm just a victim of gatekeepers and a toxic community.
>As for your /v/ analogy I highly recommend you go make a thread there and start arguing about what's good for the video game industry and what gamers want and how you know better than them, then admit you've never played a video game and only read Kotaku articles on the subject and see how that goes over.
Now look at who's acting like an expert on what they don't know about.
It's /v/, those threads happen every day. And they handle it much better and they're actually polite with helping people.
>>10924083
I'd say jannies here are doing there job.
Yes you gave me new info but i just disagreed with some of it. Just a disagreement not the end of the world.
And yes, i now know how /cgl/ works. Really a mean girl squad you'd see in movies and shows. Wish the guy on /jp/ told me went he sent me here.

[Anonymous No.10924134]

>>10924127
If you want to be celebrated for being ignorant and having a dick, try evangelical Christianity. I say this as someone who has been in the comm 20 years, all people like you do is suck the air out of the room. You bustle in pretending to be love and sunshine but turn sour when you don't get the praise and attention you feel entitled to. I doubt you're actually interested in lolita. It's why you started your own thread instead of going to the already present threads on gothic. You can call us mean all you want, but your dick has no currency here and your interest is worth less than nothing. You can't tell the difference between AI and a real picture, why the fuck would we want you in our fashion comm?

[Anonymous No.10924182]

The replies in this thread are utterly hilarious! Did you know that in Japan, fashion is supposed to be fun and for enjoyment? They don’t openly shame you for dressing bad, and it’s encouraged to experiment with new styles or pieces as harajuku was dying for a while. A lot of the unique fashion stores closed down due to Covid. Even the most notable Tokyo Lolita com has members that wear what many here would consider low quality dresses from taobao shops and some questionable accessories like a “sexy” necklace, because they don’t give a single shit about the so called standards. The gulls in this thread think they’re the Lolita authority, but newsflash, you can’t control other people’s lives or what they wear. Your opinions on bad coords became invalid the moment that Jp Lolita’s stopped giving a shit about the “rules”.

[Anonymous No.10924187]

>>10924134
Fuck off, i don't want to be celebreated i don't want to be a victim of gatekeeping and bullying.
I am a fan of Gothic Lolita, there's nothing you can say or do that will change that.
And i already explained i just got AI images out of being too excited and i deleted them.
I am staying in this community, just stop being a cranky old lady.

[Anonymous No.10924188]

>>10924182
>A lot of the unique fashion stores closed down due to Covid.
Actually stores closed due to the lock downs.
It wasn't Covid, it was humanity's response to Covid, but i digress.
But other than that i thank you for this new info and context.

[Anonymous No.10924192]

>>10924187
You're not a fucking victim. Actual victims are the Muslim slaves picking cotton in China. Like, holy fuck, people being mean to you online isn't a crime and if it's harming you don't come here. But if you like nailing yourself on a cross may I suggest, again, evangelical Christianity. Or maybe join r/lolita.

[Anonymous No.10924195]

>>10924192
I am the victim, i am a victim of this community's bullying.
Yeah it's not as bad as the Muslim stuff but holy shit what a deranged comparison.
And no, i am staying and fighting against the bullies.

[Anonymous No.10924198]

>>10924127
>See now you admit to not only gatekeeping but even saying you think it's a "good" thing.
This is my second post ITT, I've never denied gatekeeping you. You're arguing with multiple people, not a hivemind.
>Yeah i admit at first i didn't know what i was posting wasn't gothic lolita, didn't know that there where any specifics, but i learned, wanna know why? Because i learned it from someone who was being polite.
Admitting to being a "fan" of the fashion for a decade yet not even bothering to learn the basic Wikipedia article surface level information a 15 year old newbie learns within their first couple days in the fashion is pretty sad. If you're that unwilling to learn about your supposed interests then quite honestly you deserve to be gatekept. If you're looking for a soft inclusive hugbox then fuck off to reddit, your insufferable victim complex and whining about meanie seagull boolies will fit right in.
>It's /v/, those threads happen every day. And they handle it much better and they're actually polite with helping people.
You're failing to realize /v/ is a much faster board than /cgl/ and these types of low effort threads get buried and archived there pretty quick without much room for discussion. The only reason this thread is still active is because /cgl/ is slow as fuck, we have threads in the catalogue that are multiple years old. If you bothered to lurk and learn anything about board culture you would have realized that before killing another thread for your redundant spoonfeed request.

[Anonymous No.10924200]

>>10924195
>I am the victim, i am a victim of this community's bullying.
Found your new morning mantra. Gonna look at your reflection and chant "I'm the victim, I'm the victim." Narc on, little narcissist.
And the entire fashion world is concerned about slave labor and cotton. I made the comparison because whatever cheap bullshit dress you end up getting will be made with slave labor cotton. And you'll be okay with that, because you're the real victim.

[Anonymous No.10924201]

>>10924198
Yeah i know, but certainly feels like a hivemind when most of what i'm getting is gatekeeping and insults.
I never said i was a fan for a decade, i said i was a fan a decade ago and now i have gotten back into it. And i am a fan, and it's not that i'm unwilling, it's that i refuse to hear out those who are toxic and try to gatekeep me, something that no one will successfully do so your attempts are in vain.
I know the difference between /v/ and /cgl/. But that difference doesn't change how people on /v/ are much more polite and understanding than this place.
>>10924200
What's narcissistic is your community (At least on /cgl/) acting like their top authority on this subject and treating others s poorly over it. Like another anon admitted this is an alpha bitch board and narcissisms is a trait of that.
Now you're trying to guilt trip me, that's manipulative behavior, i never said those people aren't victims, i even said that that situation is bad, i was saying that doesn't make me any less of a victim of the bullying here.
Also as i said before i don't want to wear a dress as i'm a man. I just like looking at the style like how one looks at a painting. And yes, even though i don't wanna wear gothic lolita doesn't make me any less of a fan of it, clothing is also made to look nice at be looked at as well as being worn.

[Anonymous No.10924203]

>>10924201
>Now you're trying to guilt trip me, that's manipulative behavior, i never said those people aren't victims, i even said that that situation is bad, i was saying that doesn't make me any less of a victim of the bullying here.
You've really got that covert narcissism nailed. If only you could apply that kind of effort into research.

[Anonymous No.10924204]

>>10924203
Why research when i can rely on my fellow human to help me out?
And when i say human, i do not mean bullies and alpha bitched.
And stop projecting with this "narcissism" bullshit.
You're legit trying to chase me away due to your alpha bitch ego.

[Anonymous No.10924274]

>>10924127
>Yes you gave me new info but i just disagreed with some of it. Just a disagreement not the end of the world.

Your opinion isn't equally as valid as the opinion of someone who does know what they're talking about and presents the facts to you.

The only online lolita space that will accept people like you is r/lolita because it's a cesspool lacking moderation, and you would mostly get ignored even there if you post there with the same attitude as you did here.
You're not welcome in any of the lolita groups on facebook (not even the beginner groups will put up with you) or discord. Every single online lolita space (except r/lolita) requires that you, in order to participate in the group or even get admitted to the group in the first place;
-want to wear lolita fashion and you are willing and able to take steps to make that a reality within a reasonable timespan. Gawkers, lookieloos and fetishists are not welcome. No-one is going to care that you call yourself a fan of the style. All of the groups, including the lolita side of CGL, are by lolitas and for (aspiring) lolitas.
-are willing to listen to people who know more about lolita fashion than you do, and this would be 99,99999% of people there
-don't disagree or get argumentative about things with people who know more about lolita fashion than you do (which again is 99,99999% of people there)
-do the bare minimum of research about lolita fashion on your own by reading guides and informative pages, at least until you can differentiate between sub styles and are able to recognize what is or isn't lolita. Do not expect or ask to be spoonfed.
-are willing and able to accept criticism and direction

These are the rules of online lolita fashion spaces, always has been. Until you meet those bare minimum requirements you will not be accommodated for on CGL or any other online lolita space. The only place you might not immediately get booted out of is r/lolita, but I doubt you'll get much interaction there.

[Anonymous No.10924277]

>>10924182
the japanese lolita community has a fair bit of self regulating/policing and they still genrally care about "da rools". They aren't generally the free spirits you think they are. They do talk about badly dressed lolitas online. They're not going to publicly shame anyone for wearing low quality stuff, but in the west we don't do that either. Literally no-one, either in or outside of japan, is going to point and laugh at you at the meet because you showed up in a mass production dress you bought from aliexpress.
Assuming you're talking about Wonder Tea Party, you should not take them as representative of japanese lolitas. Japanese lolitas tend to be very focused on japanese brands, a lot of the japanese groups are also formed by people liking the same brand. They also have location based groups like we do in the west but that's not the only way they organize.

[Anonymous No.10924281]

>>10924277
>Wonder Tea Party, you should not take them as representative of japanese lolitas
Are they that unusual?

[Anonymous No.10924301]

>>10924281
They're not that unusual, it's just that japan has a larger proportion of lolitas (compared to the west) who only wear one brand and are only interested in attending brand events and socializing with other lolitas who also mainly wear the same brand. Or even having meets where every lolita attending wears the same dress (albeit in different colorways/print versions). I barely see that sort of thing in the west, although I have seen pictures of those meetups from asia outside of japan. Probably because in the west there is a lower concentration of lolitas and always has been so in order to socialize at all irl we just accept it means getting together with people who wear other brands and sub styles even.
In japan, even with the decrease in popularity of lolita, there is still a large enough concentration of lolitas to make it possible to have brand specific events and groups. Those people don't have to get together with people who wear other brands or who mix brands a lot if they don't want to.

As for the popularity of chinese brands in japan; chinese brands are grouped together with other non-japanese brands under the umbrella term "overseas brand". Some japanese lolitas look down on it. But it's still popular enough that chinese brands (like hoshibako works) have stores and are sold alongside other brands in the same stores in japan. I just don't see any japanese lolitas who are die-hards for specific overseas brands. The people who wear overseas brands also tend to mix more.
What I am trying to say is that whilst WTP isn't unusual, there also isn't a lot of overlap with the more brand focused part of the japanese lolita community as a whole.

[Anonymous No.10924305]

>>10924301
Don't some Lolitas who go to brand events wear other brands outside of those events sometimes. I don't disbelieve you, but most jp Lolitas I can find who have an online presence seem to wear multiple brands even if they have a favorite

[Anonymous No.10924310]

>>10924305
There is a limited amount of overlap socially between the people who only wear one brand and people who are into overseas brands, that was one of the points I was trying to make in my earlier comment. That's a different matter from if people who go to brand events wear other brands outside of those events.

>most jp Lolitas I can find who have an online presence seem to wear multiple brands even if they have a favorite

maybe this is due to the difference between what you and I prefer to see. For example nearly all of the japanese lolitas I follow on IG only wear one brand or mainly wear one brand (like 80+% of what they wear is the same brand). I don't really follow any true "brand mixers" except for WTP themselves. Because I don't use twitter I am missing out on a lot of the japanese lolita comm. I haven't really been into eavesdropping much into the japanese comm anymore since the big move away from forums and link sites. But I still get the occasional snippets through blogs if I stumble upon a new link (I don't follow any blogs, lots of blogs also shut down in or before 2019 iirc).
I really like WTP for their entertainment value and more exclusive content (like doing interviews with brand staff and showing the inside of brand stores), I don't really follow them for coordination inspiration, my tastes don't align with any of the members styles.

I also question how genuine accounts like that well known VA are, since I get the impression she gets brand sponsorships and may seem more interested in hoshibako works than she really is.

[Anonymous No.10924317]

>>10924274
Sounds to me like the community is in need of a restructuring.
>-want to wear lolita fashion and you are willing and able to take steps to make that a reality within a reasonable timespan. Gawkers, lookieloos and fetishists are not welcome. No-one is going to care that you call yourself a fan of the style. All of the groups, including the lolita side of CGL, are by lolitas and for (aspiring) lolitas.
Like i said i'm a man so i can't do such a thing but that doesn't make me any less of a gothic lolita fan, this point is just sexist.
>-are willing to listen to people who know more about lolita fashion than you do, and this would be 99,99999% of people there
Like i said i just don't take kindly to toxic people.
>-don't disagree or get argumentative about things with people who know more about lolita fashion than you do (which again is 99,99999% of people there)
I didn't even start this entire feud, that credit goes to your community on this board.
>-do the bare minimum of research about lolita fashion on your own by reading guides and informative pages, at least until you can differentiate between sub styles and are able to recognize what is or isn't lolita. Do not expect or ask to be spoonfed.
If i'm in need of assistance i know people will help. Not every place is /cgl/.
>-are willing and able to accept criticism and direction
Ironic considering everyone here couldn't accept or handle what i was giving them.

[Anonymous No.10924318]

>>10924277
Now it sounds like you're trying to tell someone else about a part of the community that they know more about than you.
Seriously this reeks of pessimism.
"Should not take them as representatives of Japanese lolita"? Well if that's true then that goes double for your side of the community.
I will not be taking you or whatever pessimist stuff you're trying to push as representatives of gothic lolita.
>>10924305
I advice you not to listen to pessimistic portrayals of communities.

[Anonymous No.10924326]

>>10924317
>Sounds to me like the community is in need of a restructuring.

The community is doing fine with those requirements, you're the one who has a problem with it. You're touched in the head if you think a functioning community is going to change for you, lol. Again, no-one cares whether you're a fan or not, being a fan isn't enough to be part of the community. If you don't like the fact that the lolita community is for lolitas by lolitas then you can make your own fan page to salivate over, I'm not stopping you.

>Like i said i'm a man so i can't do such a thing
Men can wear lolita if they want to, which you would have known if you weren't a lazy bum and did your own fucking research. There is no sexism here, you're just imagining it because you need to be a victim for your own narrative.

>Like i said i just don't take kindly to toxic people.
You would consider everyone toxic because they're not kissing your ass.

>I didn't even start this entire feud
you're the one who made the stupid thread and lead with the entitled attitude, this is all on you.

>If i'm in need of assistance i know people will help.
those requirements are true for every online lolita space, even moreso outside of cgl (we at least have the stupid questions thread here), people will not take kindly to you if you don't do the bare minimum of research and expect to be spoon fed.

>Ironic considering everyone here couldn't accept or handle what i was giving them.
what you said wasn't valid criticism considering you don't know what you're talking about

>Now it sounds like you're trying to tell someone else about a part of the community that they know more about than you.

nope, try again buddy. Japanese lolitas aren't any better or worse than the western community. You would know that if you bothered to do research.
You're just picking opinions to agree or disagree with in this thread based on whether they're kissing your ass or not, despite you not knowing anything about the topics.

[Anonymous No.10924369]

>>10924326
This thread is my own fan page, you people derailed it.
Yeah i know men can wear that but we're talking about dresses specifically here and i'm not a cross dresser.
I consider you people toxic because of the gatekeeping and insults and looking at all the deleted posts even the mods/jannies agree with me on this.
No this is thew fault of you and your toxic community. I made this thread for people who're fans of gothic lolita to post cute gothic lolita girls, but then your community started attacking with your entitled alpha bitch attitudes.
Other Anons have said that that is not requirements for every part of the community so don't lie with that pessimism BS.
What i said is valid as i'm pointing out the problems with the toxic attitude of this part of the community. This is a humanity issue here and i know what i'm talking about when it comes to humanity, something you people lack. And again, even the mods/jannies agree with me on this
The Japanese part of the community don't mind, wanna know how i know? Because i took the advice of another Anon here. Even when i do what you want me to and listen to someone here you still complain about it. You don't want me to learn, you just want to control me.
If these are just opinions then yours are less valid than others due to your pessimistic views.

[Anonymous No.10924413]

>>10924310
By other brands I didn't mean overseas brands, just different JP brands. Like girls who like baby and IW, or gothics who like moitie and Atepie etc. but I got what you mean

[Anonymous No.10924487]

>>10924369
>This thread is my own fan page
threads you start on cgl do not belong to you. You're just the TS.

>Yeah i know men can wear ... i'm not a cross dresser.
so if you understand that men can wear lolita dresses, why claim that you're being discriminated against because you're a guy? You yourself are now saying you don't want to wear dresses. We're not stopping you or gatekeeping you, you are stopping you.

>even the mods/jannies agree with me on this.
Take a look at the rules again. posts aren't being removed for the sole reason of being "mean" to you or alleged gatekeeping.

>but then your community started attacking
you inserted yourself in a community you know nothing about and made claims about a topic you know nothing about. This wouldn't have been a problem if you were willing to learn from people who know more about the topic than you do, but you don't so here we are. The lolita part of cgl is by lolitas and for (aspiring) lolitas, you even said yourself you have no intention of wearing lolita. So you have no business being here.

>Other Anons have said.. not requirements for every part of the community
Where? Quote them. I did not see any such claim from someone who actually knows what the comm is like

>What i said is valid
it's not valid because you don't know what the community is like or the topic of EGL in general. You're the one having the problem with a community you're not a part of and don't want to be a part of. We're doing fine, there is no problem.

>the Japanese part of the..of another Anon here.
you still don't know what you're talking about and you're still just siding with the person who didn't disagree with you because they don't disagree with you.

>Even when i do what you want.. still complain about it.
You haven't though, you continue to make claims about things you don't understand. I want you to shut up and lurk, you're still here.

>your pessimistic views
How are my views pessimistic?

[Anonymous No.10924490]

>>10924413
I'm sorry, that wasn't clear to me, you should have specified. But you know, no problem.
Also I'm sorry to say that some jp lolitas do have a negative view about overseas brands (chinese brands moreso than others), but just like in the west it's not like they're going to seek out confrontation with people wearing overseas brands. Not unless they can hide behind anonymity. What I've seen from anonymous boards for japanese lolitas it's very much the same stuff as over here. iirc someone archived some translated pages on cgl you might want to look at.

Japanese lolitas are also a lot less confrontational/blunt on non-anonymous forums/pages than they used to be, a development which can be seen in the western online comm as well. There are some differences between the japanese and the western comm but there are a lot of similarities as well, especially in the way they behave online. Some people in the west do assume jp lolitas are nicer or less salty. Always funny to see when they realize it's very similar to the western comm. It didn't surprise me. But what did surprise me is how rude/blunt the chinese comm was when I took a look at their pages a few years ago. The parts I read included a lot of talk about how fat they thought jp lolitas were.

[Anonymous No.10924568]

>>10924487
They don't belong to you either so don't start coming in as if you own the place.
Like i said, we're talking about dress specifically, We aren't talking about men's fashion, we're talking about girls wearing gothic lolita dresses. And no, i'm not stopping or gatekeeping myself from doing anything i never wanted to wear the stuff to begin with, i just wanted to look at cute girls in a specific style. I already said this, read what i post.
Oh please, they're clearly being deleted for the Drama/Community vendetta rule.
This wouldn't have happened if your community weren't such alpha bitches and attacked everyone who dared to disagree with the status quo. And i did learn, i just disagree with what i learned.
Here's the post in question: >>10924182
I know what the community on /cgl/ is like, a bunch of alpha bitches. Like i said, this is a humanity issue now, yet you're ignoring that part.
Yeah because you're views are pessimistic. That guy clearly knows more about the Japanese side more than you claim to know.
I do understand, i just disagree with it, i keep telling you this but at this point you just want an excuse to be toxic. I will not be leaving, especially if you of all people tell me to do so.
Your views are that the entire community is toxic and alpha bitches, those views are very pessimistic.
>>10924490
Not sure if you're the same anon as the other guy but either way this is pessimistic to say and feels like you just had one or two bad experiences and now your judging the entire community based on it.
And your even trying to push those views onto others.