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/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

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10863528 No.10863528 [Reply] [Original]

>>10843275 last thread

Post heinous price gouging, scalping, bad secondhand etiquette, and seller sperging here.

>> No.10863539

this is an easy fix, I would take the cheap sale and fix it kek

>> No.10863569
File: 32 KB, 1205x248, lmfaoooooo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The $5 apology fee she tried to send sent me

>> No.10863574

What an absolute bitch. Some person need to learn how to spend money.

>> No.10865050
File: 11 KB, 1090x110, okand.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What was the point of this essay? I hate buyers like this

>> No.10865058

I don't know anything about that seller, but I've had the shirring die in stuff just from sitting in my closet, the rubber in the elastic kind of disintegrates on its own, especially in warm climates. Suddenly you take it out one day and it looks like that.

>> No.10865142

Their feedback sounds reasonable??

>> No.10865166


it's 4 sentences, and the feedback is reasonable.

>> No.10865174

It’s not the sellers fault it fell apart. Leave it out of the feedback and chalk it up to bad luck. Fuck these types of buyers.

>> No.10865192

if it wasn't properly communicated the shoes were either very old or had been worn a whole lot (which is when I would understand the sole snapping) then part of the responsibility for that surprise rests on the seller, and the buyer would be right to include that in the feedback since it suggests the seller isn't properly communicating the state of their items. If the seller was very clear about these things then I agree that this incident should not be included in the feedback.

As a seller, if I was selling these shoes, I would do my best to accurately describe the state of the shoes to reduce any surprises. I would mention when I originally bought them, how they were stored, how much I wore them, if (and what) they had repairs or alterations.
A simple "this is a (insert number of years) old item/this is an item that has seen a lot of wear, please understand this before buying" should be sufficient as a disclaimer (next to proper pictures and description of the damage/state) to cover your ass for instances such as the sole snapping the first time the buyer wears them.

>> No.10865195
File: 76 KB, 208x210, ce3u6rhlliw31.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Sorry you got negative feedback

>> No.10865255
File: 201 KB, 858x515, classicannabizzle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

this bitch is always so deranged. the bérangère jsk has never sold for anywhere close to this much.

>> No.10865287

Agreed but it literally starts out "I knew these shoes had 3 previous owners" Then you knew the risk before buying...

I'm neither the seller nor buyer. Just checking feedback before I buy something. The feedback was positive but I always read long ones just in case since lolitas are scared to put negative feedback.

>> No.10865304

it says 2 owners before she got them. And that's no indication of age or use at all. It's not uncommon for a lolita to buy shoes, try them on once, come to the conclusion they don't fit/they're not comfortable, sell them to someone else who either has the same problem or bought them on a whim and then a few months later understands she'll never use them so they end up selling them again. I see a bunch of shoe listings that say "I bought these but they're too big/small for my feet". I've bought some shoes between 2019 and now that ended up not fitting that have been only tried on once and have been in their box since. I do not expect the sole to pop off. When I end up listing them I will definitely say "bought these in (insert year here), only tried on once, have been in storage in their shoe box in my closet ever since" just to cover my ass. I have a pair of shoes that I bought from someone who bought them from another someone in the comm. They're fine, no soles popping off. Shoes just get passed around through sales until they meet someone who fits them and will actually use them.
The only situation where I experienced soles that popped off was in shoes that were over 15 years old. I'm not saying it can't happen to younger shoes but it's unlikely if they're 5 years old and didn't get heavy wear.

>> No.10865313

Maybe I should have included a link to the sale when I posted it because it's very obvious to me these were damaged by the photos but there's nothing indicating the sole had weakened. Leaving a positive review talking about "I knew the risk but didn't expect them to break after 1 use" is so stupid. If you think the seller didn't accurately explain the damage then say that, but with no damage there they couldn't have known. This is why even if someone has all positive feedback it's best to read it anyway.

https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/ap-milky-cross-shoes-m-gold First sale (2019)

https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/angelic-pretty-milky-cross-shoes-in-gold-size-l Second sale which is where this feedback came from (2023)

>> No.10865332


Thanks for including the links. The shoes are 8 years old and were worn quite a lot by the first owner by the look of things so the sole popping off is not that strange with these circumstances.
I agree with you, it makes no sense to include it in the feedback. She got unlucky.

>> No.10865519

I was looking at this earlier, she needs a reality check

>> No.10865553
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>> No.10865676

That's new Zealand dollars which are worthless. You might as well cut that number in half for USD value. 400 seems fine.

>> No.10865708

the usd value is literally in the screenshot. $500 starting bid for a jsk that i’ve never seen sell for over $350, with both the detachable bow and underskirt missing, is retarded and an obvious scalp. this seller does this all the time with MM and JetJ.

>> No.10865740

The best items are always being priced out to many all the while the very few people we dislike are always buying them this isn't fair!!

>> No.10866127
File: 281 KB, 590x1252, 20230705_13352.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Wow what a casualty, I cannot unseen this.

>> No.10866163

botched skirt, delusional pricing

>> No.10866168

came here to post this kek. if your waist is so huge that your altered AP looks like a miniskirt, maybe consider spending the money you paid to destroy perfectly good brand on a gym membership

>> No.10866174

nayrt but buying secondhand shoes always includes this risk. especially pleather AP heels that had two previous owners. shoes take greater stress than any other fashion garment and don't always show structural problems from the outside, so there is no way for the seller to know that the soles were due to break. if the seller disclosed that the shoes were in used condition and have had multiple owners, they did their due diligence.

i understand the buyer's disappointment but the review feature is intended to verify that the seller did their job, not to review the actual item itself. lacemarket is not amazon prime.

>> No.10866175

They should have just used 2 skirts so they'd have extra fabric instead of cheaping out and getting it altered with so much solid fabric that has no print on it.

Even a back bustle instead of these side pieces would have been better so that it at least looked mostly normal from the front. I can't imagine spending so much money for it to still not fit and look weird.

>> No.10866233

Get a job, retard.

>> No.10866244

They’re shoes and they’re old, anon. Use your brain for two seconds. Don’t expect them to be close to brand new condition regardless of how much or how little they were worn. The shoe glue used to keep the sole attached will get weak over time.

>> No.10866287

I agree because these shoes are from 2015 and look like they've been used quite heavily by the first owner. My point was that just because some shoes have 2 former owners doesn't mean they're old or have been used. I wouldn't expect the sole to pop off on 3yo unused shoes, no matter how many people owned them.

>> No.10866372

Not to defend a fatty but it is a miniskirt to begin with, anon. The alteration is still hideous though.

>> No.10866376

The value of the seamstresses work to destroy a perfectly good piece does not equat to the same sale value.

It's a shame really. AP skirts are rare and should be best kept and maintained in it's original state.

>> No.10866378

>not the sellers fault that they sold a faulty item

cope harder

>> No.10866439

See >>10866244 >>10866287

Sorry you’re new and don’t understand how secondhand items work. Buy smarter next time sweetie.

>> No.10866440

You sound like a shit seller.

>> No.10866517

Holy shit I cannot stand this seller. She's a HUGE bitch and is completely delusional with the way she scalps IW/MM prices.

>> No.10866559
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Could not fit the entire description she wrote

>> No.10866562
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Same anon, also this listed at 120 USD

>> No.10866564

Typo. 120 pounds, 150 usd.

>> No.10866572

but its literally #lolitacore #kawaiicore #animecore #cottagecore #lolitadress guise!!!!!!!!!!!
i am so fucking sick of tiktoklitas

>> No.10866576

Tell me you’re a covidlita without telling me you’re a covidlita

>> No.10866578
File: 575 KB, 1080x1991, Screenshot_20230707_020031_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Good luck on your hunt for the rest of the pieces~

>> No.10866587

Tell me youre a scalper without telling me youre a scalper

>> No.10866596

Okay newfag

>> No.10866638

I swear LM has not been the same since zoomers got to the legal age. Constant chickening out of sales, retarded timewaster questions, selfish behavior and post-buy nightmares galore. Whatever seller got that feedback should be glad the buyer didn't get the stupid idea to open a pp case over it.

>> No.10866673
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when will retards stop listing their shit WITH PHOTOS OF THEM STRETCHING IT OUT OVER THEIR FAT

>> No.10866675

Stop bone rattling, she's not fat. Her listings and prices always crack me up though.

>> No.10866789

she's clearly too fat for the blouse

>> No.10866814

i don't think you have ever actually seen a fat person before

>> No.10866820

LM needs to implement an option to reject bids from new accounts or with low feedback. They also need to allow you to block certain users.

The newfags who joined during the pandemic are a cancer on the secondhand market. I stopped selling there entirely because of the reasons you posted. I only sell to friends now and it’s way less of a headache than trying to deal with LM retards.

>> No.10866821

Calling a cutsew a blouse???

>> No.10866824

It would be nice but I think since the admin went AWOL the site is just stagnant. It desperately needs updated or a whole new platform.

>> No.10866827

As an actual seamstress who does costuming for a living, these Lm nightmares remind me that there are a fuck ton of people out here with no business calling themselves professional. Im supposed to believe that this is a “professional” alteration? Good enough to preserve anything over $100 of value?

This I actually something I’ve noticed a lot with alterations. They’re nowhere near professional, yet the seller will insist that because it’s a pro the item hasn’t lost any value.

>> No.10866829

Eh mini skirts are shit and no one really wears them anyways. It’s a shitty reno, but there’s not really much loss, especially with the rerelease of the cuts that are actually wearable. You have to be basically imp shaped for the mini skirts to look right kek

>> No.10866916

the tiny shirring panel on the back is sending me.
how does one get so huge that their waist is 120cm+ anyways??

>> No.10866966

Honestly I wouldn’t care at all if it wasn’t for that ridiculous price. Who in their right mind thinks something this wrecked is worth anything more than maybe $50-$100 for spare fabric to make a headbow for a missing set or other cute little accessories?

I feel you. Seamsters are like piano teachers or bakeries. Every city/town has at least one diy-self taught “expert” that’s happy to overcharge for their mediocre skills. I’m not a professional seamstress but you could not convince me that this was a real professional.

>> No.10866986

seamster isn't a word. also it's nothing like piano teaching because instruments are more talent and less technical.

>> No.10867007

it’s crazy how fatties delude themselves into thinking that wearing lolita will work for them (it never does)

>> No.10867010
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WHY is there even a shirring panel??

>> No.10867035

Did you gulls read the full description,
It says that despite all the efforts, the seller still wasn't able to fit it.

See how sad that is? For the skirt and the owner

>> No.10867037

It's literally as wide as it is long, holy kek

>> No.10867049

the word seamster has existed since at least the 1100s
instruments are incredibly technical, and the most talented of performers still require an incredible amount of hard work in order to be notable at all
what are you talking about

>> No.10867073

>despite all the efforts
Did they try to lose weight? Lol

>> No.10867081

Someone is actually bidding on it

>> No.10867089


>> No.10867218

Me, I'm going to take it apart and make it into an ironing board cover.

>> No.10867219

NTA. This is really embarrassing, please stop.

>> No.10867280

Theyre most likely projecting.

>> No.10867369

Your doing the Lord's work

>> No.10867550

i mean that was my first post on this thread and also the truth, i was not any of the previous anons. guessing you didn't do very well in school huh
i have literally no stake in the alteration quality one way or another, just wanted to comment since 'seamster isn't a word' and 'instruments are talent and not technical' are things you should have learned in primary school

>> No.10867617

>sold this plastic shit for $300
Good for her, honestly. Seethe, poorfag

>> No.10867618

Isha's new LM account to scalp, I see

>> No.10867624
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>very good condition

>> No.10867743

This looks and sounds just as bad as the fattie Chan that took an original release Angelic Pretty Cats Tea Party and mutilated it to squeeze her rolls.

>> No.10867751

damn, it's only been hit by one car? what a steal!

>> No.10867879 [DELETED] 

apparently this is fr*lledcriminal so it makes sense whey everything is covered in filth and photographed in her dismal garage

>> No.10867893

Might just be the lighting or my monitor settings but that strap looks yellow

>> No.10867895 [DELETED] 

why did you censor her name like you're on twitter

>> No.10867900 [DELETED] 

because the jannies are retarded and ban for everything here

>> No.10867903 [DELETED] 
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post proof or gtfo

>> No.10867911 [DELETED] 

Why is frilled so annoying. I wish she'd take the hint that people don't like her and finally leave.

>> No.10868294 [DELETED] 
File: 752 KB, 2497x910, 1689368097397.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Reposting from LCF https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/angelic-pretty-milky-cutsew-in-pink

>> No.10868593
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>> No.10868653

Is she a scalper?

>> No.10868690

I bet that's the same anon that asked how much she could sell this for a few months ago.

>> No.10868700

I'm surprised more people don't sell their Milky-chan pieces considering how high it's going for now. But then I suppose the rarity is why it's selling for so much...

>> No.10868732

i've been seeing a lot of milky on LM, but it's not selling.

>> No.10869610 [DELETED] 

I found this japanese article talking about the majority of Mercari scalpers being in their 60s,
which is surprising.
Now I imagine grandmas raiding brand stores at release dates for resale.

>> No.10869612

I found this japanese article talking about the majority of Mercari scalpers being in their 60s,
which is surprising.
Now I imagine grandmas raiding brand stores at release dates for resale.

>> No.10869654

I doubt this is for lolita though. The article also said both men and women have increased sales the older they get, however with men the unit price tends to be higher, with women it tends to be lower and sell a larger amount of items.
Still funny to read though.

And for sure I've seen listings on mercari that asked way too high a price for a lolita item, yet didn't seem like they knew much about lolita fashion.

>> No.10869682
File: 600 KB, 2880x2880, 20230721_085814.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Bought for $35 free shipping just to instantly turn around and sell for $75 plus $15 shipping. She has every right to sell at whatever price but I think it's an asshole move.

>> No.10869686

She’s been scalping from ebay too. She bought her Lyrical Bunny Jacket for $75 and resold it for $150.

>> No.10869687

catcy also scalped this skirt from the same ebay seller https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/nwt-angelic-pretty-heart-bib-skirt

>> No.10869724

AP jewelry isn’t even worth the retail price. I genuinely hate the plastic jewelry AP sells since it’s so delicate. Especially new AP stuff

>> No.10869736

She showed up to a swap meet at a con, told some girl an item was her DD to get a discount, and then scalped it on LM the next day.

Also listed at least one item as NWT before that have been worn but she regularly deletes all her IG photos so no one would have been able to tell.

>> No.10869927
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How delusional do you have to be to think you have a chance of selling this?

>> No.10869949

It's a troon, nonna. They're all delulu

>and then scalped it on LM the next day.
What item was it? What's her IG?

>> No.10869954

Can't remember the swap meet item but the worn things were some AP hair clips. Her IG was tartan.rin, but when I search that name now nothing comes up.

>> No.10869955

do you retards not know what scalping is? selling an item for $50 (at most) more than you bought it for doesn't make you a scalper kek. catcy prices 90% of the main pieces she lists at under $150. scalper my ass.

>> No.10869958

Scalping is just buying something with the sole intention of reselling. Doubling the price is still scalping even it's below $150. If it was old pieces someone bought some time ago and the market price went up I don't think anyone would complain, but literally lying and begging for discounts just to flip it for a profit as she's been accused is scummy, weird, and off-putting to say the least.

I wouldn't sell to her at a swap knowing that she won't even wear it. I like to sell at discounts in person to people with similar style who will really love an item, not to a wannabe depop girlboss.

>> No.10869960 [DELETED] 

not sure it's flipping for a profit when she's still selling at current market value and lists her selling reasoning in her listing descriptions, most of which have to due with sizing. she has a definite impulse buying issue, but selling new pieces because they don't fit your board-flat chest is not scalper behavior. it's hard to get brand sizing right when you're too small for most post-2004 releases, but this community of fatty-chans wouldn't know that.

>> No.10869962

Nonna, I am sympathetic to the discussion around fit issues but, that first pic is super obvious flipping for a profit. She got an item for $30 and free shipping only to more than double the price and charge $15 shipping. Market rate was the price she paid like 2 weeks ago for the exact same item. Why are you wking her so hard?

>> No.10869964


That anon's sizing argument makes no sense. This girl has sewing skills and has personally repaired items she's resold even with dye and done a good job. If she wanted to keep them she'd have made slight alterations.

>> No.10869968

weird that you’d not sell to someone based of assumptions.

>> No.10869971

This. What catcy is doing here is one of the few actual examples of scalping: buying an item with the intention of reselling for profit.

Oh I know you she is then, she changed her username to avoid drama.

>> No.10869973

There's a screenshot itt with proof of the behavior, and her LM history, there's no assumptions, just fact.

>> No.10869974

sorry you got posted

>> No.10870017

You’re probably blocked by her.

>> No.10870018

No, like >>10869971 said she changed her name to avoid drama.

>> No.10870020
File: 367 KB, 949x1046, catcy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.10870026

Thanks for the proof nonna.

Her new username is posted to the farms.

>> No.10870032

LMAO try to make it a bit less obvious that the person posted is you.You're a scalper, get over yourself.

>> No.10870033

Thanks nonna. As expected, she's deleted all her posts since the last time I checked her page with just a couple new ones.

>> No.10870035

Kek I was thinking the same thing. Especially with the hastily deleted post humblebragging about being so thin and flat chested and accusing people calling out her scalping of being fat uggos.

>> No.10870036

I’m not catcy, but I don’t care what people do with their clothes after buying them. If you’re able to buy an item, fix it up, and resell it, then do it. If you think you got it for a steal and wanna resell it, cool. If you don’t like the price, make an offer. Who cares. I found it especially weird that an anon said they wouldn’t sell to her, and would only sell to people who they deemed “deserved it.” What are you doing, investigating everyone who you sell to? lmao

>> No.10870037

>I don’t care what people do with their clothes after buying them.
>I found it especially weird that an anon said they wouldn’t sell to her
it's almost as if some people want to sell to people who will actually use and wear it, not resell it instantly

>> No.10870042

I’ve never understood why we act like lolita clothing is sacred. It’s clothes. I get that some of it rare but the gatekeeping confuses me. You wanted to sell it anyway, why do you care where it goes?

>> No.10870043

>I'm not catcy
>immediately wking for catcy
Sure Jan

>> No.10870044

the only people who are okay with scalping are scalpers themselves.

>> No.10870045

retard logic, I just don’t buy a price I’m not comfortable with

>> No.10870047

Most people don’t like scalpers anon. You can find it all over the internet- look at people seething over scalped PS5s, computer parts, Pokémon cards, video games, generic jfashion, anime figures, Sanrio plushies, lululemon clothing, etc. It’s not a lolita only mentality.

>> No.10870048

I care for an extremely selfish reason: it fucks up the secondhand market for everyone. No one will want to buy or sell secondhand if they know something will be scalped, or they'll only sell at the highest prices if they let go of items at all to try to dissuade scalpers. It will ruin LM even more than stimulus checks and the sweet and old school booms already did. On principle, I will choose to do what I want with my clothes, which is keep them out of the hands of scalpers.

You DO care where your lolita goes after. You're lying if you say you wouldn't care if some perv or sex worker was going to get off while wearing it.

>> No.10870051

This. Only scalpers like or justify obvious scalpers.

>> No.10870053 [DELETED] 

Busybody fatass itas with bmis in the 30s, every one. Only fat, ugly women and super lefties try to control everything this much.

And no, I'm not anyone who has posted in this thread so far. I am a man, a guy with a dick

>> No.10870054

>Only fat, ugly women and super lefties try to control everything this much.
>pointing out scalpers being annoying and personally choosing not to buy from them

Controlling our own spending habits maybe. You used the term ita, you're clearly not some random moid.

>> No.10870055

I’m cute and thin and not a leftie you inbred disgusting mongoloid. Besides, most scalpers in general are disgusting obese or low IQ low test men with no impulse control. Nobody gives a fuck about men’s opinions here, quit whiteknighting some hulking man framed CONSOOMer because she doesn’t have enough impulse control to keep some savings.

>> No.10870056 [DELETED] 

Yeah I am not a random moid, I'm a moid who likes to fuck thin cgl girls. Emphasis on thin, not planetshaped like you. Women who can actually fit into this shit properly.

Press X to doubt, you fat fuck. I bet you are vaxxed and boosted tbqh. Lower your tone when talking to your superiors (all men but especially me)

>> No.10870057

Are you that desperate to convince people to buy your scalped listings? You must be broke from impulse buying too much VM and MM. Anyone with a brain can see you're wking yourself.

>> No.10870058

I don't know what any of those acronyms mean, I'm just here to laugh at raging lardasses

>> No.10870060

Why is it always Texas Lolita’s?? What’s in the water over there?

>> No.10870066
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>> No.10870067

I understand the sentiment but she should have just made them $1...why 7?

>> No.10870091

>spend $220 on closetchild
>they sent the fucking package to the wrong place
In the off chance someone who got my package is here reading it please bro return it with everything in it

>> No.10870118

It's a big state with over 5 huge comms, realistically a good chunk of people are from there. Lolitas have been behaving poorly across the globe since the fashion's inception. Remember the lolita museum scammer, or French theif girl? Texas featuring some prominent shitty people is a relatively recent development beyond AM and the Leighs. There are probably tons of normal lolitas and itas in Texas but we don't hear about them obviously.

>> No.10870139

Nayrt this makes you sound really dumb

>> No.10870140

Where did they send it? Did CC confirm the address they shipped to and it wasn't the one on your order?

>> No.10870142

girl I don’t like scalpers either but
>i’m cute and thin
please never say this on cgl again it’s too embarrassing

>> No.10870150

Scalpers ruin secondhand markets for everyone. The anon made sense that they wouldnt sell to them. Fair enough its a bit strange doing a background check on them before selling but still. I dont like the idea of selling to a scalper either.
The issue is, this person is buying an item for cheap, not even wearing it, just instantly flipping to item for a higher price. It's looked down upon in pretty much every hobbyist/fashion group.

>> No.10870157 [DELETED] 

Less embarrassing than when Catcy larps as a moid to call herself cute and skinny and everyone else fat and ugly.

>> No.10870322 [DELETED] 

Keking at catcy, dropping her prices on LM when she was being called out but getting rid of the price drops within a day. She just can't resist those sweet sweet profits.

>> No.10870340 [DELETED] 
File: 855 KB, 1564x1564, 1690087013977.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I saw that too lol. Pic from the farms, just adding her mercari is uumber and depop tartinrin

>> No.10870455

I’ve bought from her and she used the most ghetto recycled packaging ever and overcharged me like 8 dollars on shipping, I considered leaving a neutral but decided to just leave no feedback at all, the item was “NWT” but the tag was just stuffed in the package so now I definitely know she wore it. Disgusting. She should’ve gotten a finance major instead of an art one so she could stop buying shit she can’t afford just to scalp it

>> No.10872308
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I’m so tired of seeing her sales on lm it makes me wish they’re was a block button. It’s so obvious she scalps cheap closet child shit and doesn’t even bother getting different proof pics/ poorly cropping out the closet child watermark

>> No.10872355

Honestly I wish we could just report scalpers and have them barred from selling.

>> No.10872358

same, i'm tired of the only listings for dream prints being from infamous scalpers i won't buy from on principle.

>> No.10872376

there's a chrome plugin that lets you hide people on lm. it really should be a feature in lm itself, but it is an option to block out scalpers. it's called "hide lacemarket scalpers" and you just put in usernames you want to block and it will hide their items

>> No.10872383

nayrt but that's amazing, thank you

>> No.10872414

Definitely agree with adding a block button on lace market, there’s like 2 Chinese sellers that list there prices in USD but are only accepting HKD so when I’m looking for a dress I’d rather not see them at all.

>> No.10872418

You’re 100% right, Plus size Lolita’s always have this “my way or the Highway” type mentality where they believe a foreign country’s garments should perfectly fit their obese body. Like the previous commenter stated they should invest in a gym membership instead of trying to sell this monstrosity.

>> No.10872426

This happened to me a while ago. I moved to a new city, deleted my old address and added in my new address. They still somehow sent it to my old house despite removing the address from their records. DHL contacted me about a week later and asked for the information to forward it to the new address. Try getting in touch with the shipping service you used

>> No.10872439

This alteration is sad and such a fucking shame but I hate this mentality that pieces should be kept the way they were originally made. They are personal property, not property of the community. It's clothing. It's made to be worn and used. If you wouldn't bat an eyelash at someone altering something to be smaller you're just a hypocrite. Complain about the alteration being shit, not the sanctity of keeping the piece pristine. Other people's closets aren't your museum. Buy your own if you want it to be in mint condition forever.

>> No.10872443

anons wouldn't complain if lolitas didn't turn around and sell this garbage. she's the one trying to recirculate it into the community. she's entitled for even trying to resell this garbage.

>> No.10872450

Ayrt- At that price absolutely. If it was 50 bucks I would restore it myself. It is absolutely entitled and looks like shit. I agree. Just a pet peeve.

>> No.10872462
File: 126 KB, 700x700, w-93127-04_1080x.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

WW selling this Dolly Cat for 24,999 yen and a broken brooch.

>> No.10872479
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>> No.10872496

nta but are you aware that taking in a dress is almost always reversible (and often with nearly unnoticeable damage caused once removed) whereas this frankenskirt procedure absolutely is not?

a taken in dress is still salvageable and usable by the average lolita, this thing only has use for other hamplanets with no shame or as scrap fabric to repair a damaged piece. it would literally be more useful to more lolitas as an ironing board

while i don't necessarily believe clothes are public property, please understand lolita clothes are not just clothing. they are collectibles in a very real way, there is a hard limit to the number of certain dresses in existence (retired prints, dead brands, rare exclusive releases), and if you're someone whose dream dress is rare it's perfectly reasonable to be horrified seeing someone else destroy it so when they're done with it no one else can enjoy it as it was meant to be enjoyed.

i honestly think if you alter a dress, it's yours now. selling it on LM shows a level of disrespect to the community as a whole. you're telling your peers "i don't care how many of these exist, i would destroy the last one and not feel guilty" . personally i probably wouldn't even sell a piece i personally severely damaged unless i was sure the dress could be restored.

if a dress doesn't fit, it goes on the diet rack or is sold to a smaller girl who can appreciate it. there are plenty of bigger releases these days and there is really no reason to destroy a potentially rare item like this.

>> No.10872497

>please understand lolita clothes are not just clothing.
>there is a hard limit to the number of certain dresses in existence
i don't agree with that anon, but literally ALL clothing has a limited number of releases and a limited life span. i agree with literally everything else though, i just think that saying lolita is somehow unique in that way and different than other jfash or other favorite clothing items isn't correct. most clothing people love can't be replaced.

>> No.10872501

you're kind of inserting a lot of words i never said here

>> No.10872503

Nta but what are the numbers? Yeah all clothes is “limited”, but you can’t compare some fast fashion like Zara to Lolita where they make hundreds of thousands more of one item to stock world wide, the same can be said about normie designer and hype beast stuff like supreme. Yeah it’s “limited”, but they have way more stock worldwide and drop wayyyy more often than Lolita brands (every single Thursday iirc). Lolita brands are much smaller scale compared to the average clothing brand and just because it’s not the ONLY fashion with limited items doesn’t mean those items should be trashed and disrespected. If you want Lolita to be gross in it and never wash it and do shitty alterations on your now permastained ripped up brand (I’m looking at you al****fromh*ll) then you should probably look more a cheaper, fast fashion style

>> No.10872510

>i honestly think if you alter a dress, it's yours now. selling it on LM shows a level of disrespect to the community as a whole. you're telling your peers "i don't care how many of these exist, i would destroy the last one and not feel guilty"
Holy mental gymnastics Batman

>> No.10872534

You should buy the pieces you want and store them if you don’t want some obese fat fuck to ruin them. I don’t like fatties either and I only sell to my direct friend circle, but you both reek of seething poorfag. You aren’t entitled to something that somebody else owns.

>> No.10872536

What the hell kek

>> No.10872552

nayrt, there's nothing entitled about reselling an altered piece but the price needs to reflect which alterations were done to it, the quality of the alterations and the aesthetics of the piece after the alterations are done.

nayrt. I used to do alterations as a job. There are irreversible ways to take something in and reversible ways to take something in. The same goes for taking something out/adding fabric. What's most important here is that a seller discloses what was done to it and they need to understand that the resale price of an altered piece is lower than the unaltered piece even if the buyer might fit it well as is.
I can get pretty sad/annoyed if I see a piece that is pretty rare that I want and someone altered it but ultimately I understand that this is their property until someone else buys it. They have no obligation to keep something in good condition. They own it (with or without alterations), they can treat it however they like. All I ask is that sellers price their items accordingly.

>> No.10872562

yeah this is psychotic, like
said- make your own museum if you want and put everything in a dark glass box so it meets your standards. Otherwise cope and seethe.
what you said here is very accurate. Not all alterations that make something smaller are going to keep the spare fabric attached. Making a dress bigger is harder so many people do fail and it becomes a joke on here, but if done well I don't see why it shouldn't happen. Clothing should fit people, not the other way around. If you're completely intent on wearing and loving something there's nothing wrong with altering it. Make fun of the price and botch job, not the idea of altering the "community's" item.

>> No.10872564

this is kind of what i'm saying-- it doesn't apply much to this listing which is just overpriced and not too rare a print, but for some releases like from dead brands or pieces that haven't been rereleased since 2006 or brands that release like 3 items every 5 years, there's genuinely not many of those floating around.

some alterations are good quality but the vast majority aren't and this may be unbelievably autistic but the thought of a dress actually not existing anymore due to all the existing pieces being damaged or lost to time really bums me out. brands aren't great at archiving their own prints and patterns and sometimes can't rerelease a piece for that reason, and obviously replicas aren't an option, so it's just kind of a "losing bits of lolita history, an already infamously difficult to archive and navigate topic" thing for me. admittedly this happens anyway, even in the best of cases. dresses do wear out, accidents happen, and not everyone is a sperg about textile preservation

i'll amend my statement: if people are going to alter things and then sell them, i wish they'd at least shell out the money to get a professional seamstress that knows what they're doing. i have admittedly seen one or two altered dresses where i could not tell it was altered until seeing measurements. but that's not nearly as common as sloppy, patchwork alterations that do nothing to preserve the integrity of the design. whether you agree with alterations or not, it's bananas to see a NWT price on an item that's basically salvage.

>> No.10872609

Like you said, it's going to happen anyways. We are not a textile preservation community, we are a lolita community. The one requirement of lolita is to wear the fashion. When clothes are worn, they wear out. Many of the pieces we have preserved historically are upper class garments precisely for that reason- and they've been altered too to even be displayed in museums! (Look at lady curzon's peacock dress!)

I understand wanting to preserve history, but I think that mentality goes too far when it becomes not altering the clothing to fit you. You could make the same argument for not wearing it at all. Sun fades colors, fabrics degrade in the wash, buttons come off, shirring gets stretched. It is something you will have to come to terms with on your own that we will never know everything about history, much less lolita history.

This is coming from someone who very deeply knows where you're coming from- I am also autistic and hyperfixate on wanting to know and preserve everything- it's just an exhausting mindset and ideology to have.

>> No.10872616

I just wanted to chime in a little, I understand where you're coming from, but when it comes to rare prints it's not always that they will ever be sold on lacemarket. I feel there's probably a bunch of Elizabeth OPs and the like sitting in closets because the owner aged, changed sizes, and doesn't want to sell or alter. Is it better for some of the most beautiful examples of the fashion to sit in a closet than be altered? I'm tall myself so there's many dresses I do need to alter, for example I have quite a few oldschool skirts and OPs I need to alter. If I don't alter them, I'm not going to sell them because it isn't about the dollar value it's about my ability to wear them and their rarity. On the contrary I have some less rare items that also don't fit but I'm not bothered altering them specifically because they are common. They aren't so special, it isn't worth the time for me to plan the reconstruction, and pay for the professional altering of the garment. I will say I think there's some alterations that simply don't work because it's such a size difference and do think in those cases it is better to stick to brands that do larger sizes like meta, but ultimately meta isn't going to release hawase doll or creeping rose doll, I need to alter those.

>> No.10872647

you completely misinterpreted what i was saying, plus you don't sound like you know much about selling altered items in a fashion community. i worked in a bridal shop for years that did it's own alterations and altering drastically reduces the value and therefore the price of a dress or a piece. the price you personally pay for it doesn't even come into consideration. pieces that aren't technically damaged have diminished value, even if the person buying it benefits from the alterations. if a wedding dress is altered, even if it's unused, the price goes down dramatically. the lolita community has similar feelings about pieces. simply spending money doesn't increase value.

>> No.10872650

Are you absolutely retarded you’re saying the exact same thing as the anon you’re replying too
She literally says “ seller discloses what was done to it and they need to understand that the resale price of an altered piece is lower than the unaltered piece even if the buyer might fit it well as is”

>> No.10872665

maybe i'm being too rigid and overthinking it? before i got into lolita i collected antique japanese textiles which may be where the mindset is coming from, and obviously my opinions can only really reach as far as my own closet, but it's a really hard apprehension to get past, particularly after seeing so many genuinely horrible botched alterations.

being honest there's a few pieces i've considered looking into making into a skirt from a JSK, but with rare pieces the anxiety i may be ruining it forever for everyone else often just makes me keep it as a display piece or try to alter my body instead. i don't really know how much longer i'll be able to or want to continue wearing lolita, and it feels like a huge daunting commitment to alter a dress when someone else probably wants it as-is, if that makes sense.

it's also very difficult to get into the idea "this dress is for me, there's no obligation to the community" when the bodies wearing it feel like public property in a way. the idea of being publicly mocked online for altering a dress because it doesn't fit right normally actually kills me

>> No.10872675

>he idea of being publicly mocked online for altering a dress because it doesn't fit right normally actually kills me

I've never seen people mock pieces that were altered when the alterations of the piece looked professional and the end result looked proportional on the wearer. In those cases no one would be able to know your piece is altered unless you tell them or unless you're look much larger than the max measurements of the piece. Plenty of people get (especially older) skirts altered to be 5~10cm larger and unless they broadcast that fact online no-one would know. I know someone who gets most of her purchases taken in, it's really not obvious. You have no obligation to even be open to the option of reselling either. I understand wanting to be well liked in the community, but you seem overly concerned with what you think the community is going to think of you.

>> No.10872680
File: 370 KB, 1078x1618, Screenshot_20230804_180642_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

For only $370, you too can own this well kept, adorable pony bag.
>price is not negotiable

>> No.10872681

>the idea of being publicly mocked online for altering a dress because it doesn't fit right normally actually kills me
If anything it's the opposite. You will look better and have better coord shots when you're wearing clothes made to fit you as opposed to shoving yourself in clothing made for girls 15 lbs lighter and 5 inches shorter, and thus will be less likely to be mocked. The only time (mostly) people get mad about alterations is if they're done sloppily. The reason people meme on that girl with the old Cat's Tea Party is because it looked like it was chopped up with kid's scissors, not that it was altered inherently.

>> No.10872685

I understand non, I was also previously a collector, but if the alteration is truly good there's probably someone out there who may prefer a skirt version of the piece you have. If the clothing is meaningful to you and you are making it more wearable for you it's not ruining it, it's loving it. Hearing that you try to alter your body makes me so sad because I firmly believe clothing should fit you and not the other way around. I will absolutely make major changes to a piece if I am committed to wearing it and loving it.

Putting it this way, would you be angry at an alteration that adds pockets? That makes straps more adjustable? That adds a zipper? Changing the lining from poly to genuine silk? These changes may make the dress more comfortable and desirable to wear for most people and they all count as alterations. Any fitment issues you have may be something other people have and it will count as helpful to them. I see it as a good alteration enhances the personal value of the item, because your comfort should matter the most.

>> No.10872694

What the fuck. Why is everything ripped off? Did a dog get ahold of it? The mane looks melted too. I weep for this poor pony.

I actually agree with and understand most of these sentiments. I won't say it publicly, but I'm against most alterations (if it's not 100% reversible). But I'm also against things like splitting sets (that were sold as a set) or selling waist ties separately (on purpose). The biggest thing for me is the whole "removing lolita history" part. If enough people alter dresses, the dress kind of ceases to exist. I know it's inevitable that dresses will go extinct at some point in the future, but I see alterations as speeding up that process. We can't pretend like lolita isn't a majorly secondhand fashion, so it's impossible not to be conscientious of the fact that alterations/damage/whatever will effect the overall availability of "original" brand. Yes, a piece is yours when you buy it, but I feel like a majority of lolitas will eventually sell their wardrobes at some point (expecting to get a portion of their money back), and at that time everything goes into the secondhand pool. A lot of people do not want alterations because they rather start with a blank slate (the unaltered/original dress).
The worst example I can think of is there was a bad alteration not too long ago that was being sold by someone who admitted they didn't fit their alteration anymore wanted to buy the same dress again... so that they could alter it... again. It made me angry that they couldn't just alter the existing dress that had already been modified. It sort of proves the point that no one wants an altered dress, and they might as well not exist anymore.
Anons can go ahead and hate on me now.

>> No.10872713

I don't hate you I just don't understand why you think I want to sell my dresses. If I have a daughter in the future, maybe she won't have an interest in my funny dresses, but wouldn't it be fun to let her try wearing some when she is a teenager if she wanted to ? It's my passion and my fun, the dresses I love the most I'll alter specifically so they can live with me for longer. Why worry about preserving history if you can't even think about your future with it lol

>> No.10872716

>Why worry about preserving history if you can't even think about your future with it
Yeah, that's where I can also agree. Everyone has to live their life because we all die in the end, so I get people altering things. It's mostly selfish that I want more "originals" around, but that's just what makes my particular brain happy.
Also I didn't mean to say that all lolitas will eventually sell their things. I know a lot of us will go to the grave with our dresses. But in general, a lot of people change styles and move on. There were people who only started in 2020 and are long gone in 2023.
I think I'll just blame brands for making small batches in the first place. We wouldn't feel as competitive about dresses if we got good quality, faithful rereleases on a regular basis, or if things weren't sold out so quickly. That's an impossible ask though, so I guess this is just how it is.
Sort of ironically, I actually support "alterations" if it's a dress that would have been trashed otherwise. Like if it has holes in it, it's ripped up, or faded beyond hope - make it into a pillowcase for all I care.

>> No.10872723

Nayrt, I understand the concern with preserving lolita history but the way I would deal with it would be to buy the pieces I thought were most important for that cause, which is kind of like lolitas buying their dream dresses, document as much as possible about them when they are still in good shape, and wear them because they are meant to be worn. People wear actual vintage fashion. You can wear items produced in the 90s and 2000s as long as you take good care of them. As for anything you don't buy, just let it go (emotionally and mentally, stop worrying about it) unless you have an empty mansion and would like to play amateur museum owner.

>> No.10872738

these are really good points and i'd honestly like to thank you for the amount of grace this conversation was handled with. i'll take some time to rethink my approach and try to be a little less unnecessarily strict.

these are both reassuring responses. cgl gets a little brutal sometimes, and finding absurd standards to hold myself to is a long standing habit.

>> No.10872750

Nta but using the same logic if people find an alteration unfixable they could also just make it into an ironing board, just saying. Regarding the batches I would honestly love if brands released fabrics for lolitas to make their own main pieces but I know it's extremely unlikely to happen because there's just not a market for it. Lolitas end up kind of having to alter and deal with whatever they get while paying brand prices precisely because prints you can't get otherwise exist. I would be much more lenient on your stance if there was a genuine alternative for ap, baby, IW prints etc.

>> No.10872755

Nayrt. I don't think brands will sell their printed fabric to the public, not in quantities sufficient to make garments with. That would cut into their sales of printed garments too much. I also think too many poorly made items would be made from it, and with the owner being able to claim it is (insert brand here) that could reflect badly upon the brand. I have seen scrap sales, for example VM selling small cuts of fabrics and lace some years ago iirc, but not enough to make a garment from. These were more intended for accessories.

>> No.10872759

No problem. You also need to remember that half of CGL is coomer men and people who come on here just to shit stir, so they'll say any sort of shit about anyone. That one person in another thread recently who said a girl had a "bodybuilder neck," for example. That's absurd.

>> No.10872765

Dolls kill?

>> No.10872791

Are you retarded? It’s an AP bag.

>> No.10872793

For sure, I definitely see the issues with it, no arguing there. I do like the idea of even small fabric scraps being sold for accessories though. It would be nice to make bits and bobs to match coords, or make a kumya outfit for a print that doesn't have one. I'm really heavy into the idea that more lolitas should learn to DIY because it just makes the fashion so much more fun for me, being able to have the skills behind imagining a full coord and actually make the things I want to realize it, or commission someone when it's completely out of my zone. Then again, I'm incredibly picky so maybe it's just me.

>> No.10872795

NTA but it says dolls kill below it, I think she was expressing confusion bc it's NOT.

>> No.10872848

It would be cool if brands designed and released some prints exclusively as commercial fabrics, like not the same prints as used on their garments but just original ones in their own style. Kind of like how some celebrity designers and major brands do lines of fabric.
But it probably would not be that profitable and they wouldn't be happy about people selling low quality stuff made with it when it's intended only for "personal use".
The only novelty print fabrics I can find that are suitable for lolita and don't have that "joann's quilter print" look are from japanese stores like Okadaya.

>> No.10872864

That's exactly it.

>> No.10872866

Not as retarded as you since you can't read apparently.

>> No.10872881

Tell me you don't know how to use Mercari's tagging system without telling me.

It's keywords for the algorithm so the listing gets more traffic.

>> No.10872882

That’s a Depop screenshot dumbass…

>> No.10872890

nayrt but there's a difference between normal wear and tear of dresses and landwhales chopping up and frankensteining brand, damaging the dresses beyond repair, because they're angry they can't fit into human-sized clothing

>> No.10872892

yes and the solution is still the same. Buy the dresses you think are important to preserve. You are competing with people who are willing to buy 2 of the same dress to frankenstein together so you better keep checking the second hand market places and be ready to pounce the moment something good pops up.

>> No.10872906


>Tfw you're lucky that most mm is so inflated and rare that most fatties can't afford to Frankenstein together two of them

Haha, nice.

>> No.10872912

It's not the price because I know quite a few very fat people willing to pay those prices. It's just that the large majority of fat lolitas are solely into sweet and wouldn't even buy classic if it was made in their size. Most are solely into sweet, with only a few into gothic lolita, and even less into classic. Someone could argue it's the chicken or the egg question, that fatties aren't into classic because it's not made in their size or that classic isn't made in huge sizes because fatties aren't into classic.
The fact that I rarely see fatties wearing the few classic options made in their size and that they aren't demanding it be made in their size (like they do with sweet) tells me they're just not interested in classic.
When they buy 2 of the same dresses to frankenstein together it's nearly always a sweet print.

>> No.10872917

most people with MM are only willing to part with it in extreme circumstances like a financial emergency or leaving lolita. personally i may just end up entombed with my MM pieces like some kind of frilly mummy.

>> No.10872922

envisioning you in a wooden coffin, like a piece of pottery packed in a crate, but with dresses all around you instead of packing peanuts or wood shavings.

>> No.10872926

literally buried in brand. anyway this visual made my night, thanks

>> No.10872938

desu having to frankenstein something together if youre much bigger is going to look horrible because of seams, it would unironically look better to make a design replica but you'll get absolutely shit on for "copying" for little to no reason, half the community thinks all design replicas are ok, half the community is ok with basic bags and shoes but not design replicas of non prints. It's wild.

>> No.10872943

I am under the impression that most lolitas aren't okay with design replicas of main pieces and bags but most are fine with design replicas of shoes. The common argument is that you can lose weight, you can save money, but you can't control the size of your feet. Of course there are plenty of lolitas who fit brand shoes but buy from bodyline or antaina because they consider brand prices to be way too high for synthetic leather shoes that could break/crack/tear as early as the first wear. I'd still love to have some brand shoes though.

>> No.10872945

ayrt- Plenty of lolitas also just say "then it's not for you don't wear it" and yeah sure that works for a couple pieces but if it's everything I could see it being pretty depressing. I have absolute man shoulders and OPs have never been an option for me, yet they're what I love most. People don't want you to "ruin" main pieces with alterations, they don't want you to copy them,they don't want you to wear them if you don't fit properly, and they don't want you to buy it just to collect because it's kinda required to be a lolita you wear the clothing. Really seems like they just don't want you to wear lolita at all.

>> No.10872947

Because not only are they fatphobic as hell, but if you're not born with a tiny uwu frame they dismiss you and say "oh this fashion isn't for you". It's incredibly scummy on all accounts and just an excuse to bodyshame and hurt people, especially people who aren't thin and petite. It's also hilarious seeing that one bitch saying "muh fatties can't wear MM", little does she know MM still gets altered by classicfags, and even the smallest lolitas have talked about how some MM is tight on them because it's literally a tiny brand.
My point is, alter whatever you want and wear what you want, just do it tastefully. You can make lolita work for you, so don't listen to asshole lolitas who care more about your rare dresses than they do about you, they're clearly selfish so it's best to just ignore them.

>> No.10872949

I agree with your points but you sound like an angry fatty tiktoklita. Try to make less obvious.

>> No.10872951

Completely agreed. Being cute helps motivate you to lose weight. Clothes are a huge part of self expression and mental health. Just try to be tasteful. I make fun of shit alterations and people who think they can scalp dresses as much as the next gull, but I hate the fat = give up you're eternally ugly and shouldn't wear lolita mindset. People say "stick to stuff that fits" then point to the shittiest western brands that are fugly as hell, like VF. Then they shit on fatties for wearing an ugly ass dress. There's no winning.

>> No.10872952

Oops I meant LS got them mixed up

>> No.10872953
File: 808 KB, 1003x1358, Screenshot_20230807_072629.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This girl had this dress frankensteined together and I think it looks quite cute and nice on her.

>> No.10872962

Very interested in seeing the back and closeups of this dress if there are any

>> No.10872983

it’s a cute coord and she’s one of the only fat lolitas with good taste.
however, it’s bothering me so much that she didn’t iron the lace

>> No.10873006

now if only this was the standard for alterations. i actually really like this girl, but she's absolutely an outlier.

>> No.10873007

if you want brand shoes, go for baby. i've had several pairs for years that still look new except for wear on the bottom

>> No.10873008

AATP and Baby have been pumping out a lot of short sleeves OPs with shirring on the neckline that makes them shoulder friendly. i never thought i would be able to own an OP either but now I have several.

additionally IW's L size pieces run larger in the shoulders than most lolita. i think it's because the designer is tall.

>> No.10873024

I've seen a few alterations where a printed dress was altered in a way that looked great because the person who did the alterations used the same fabric (waist ties or pockets) and basically redesigned the bodice so the extra panels looked like they were supposed to be there, they also matched up the print. Rare but I've seen it. It's just a matter of skill and finding the right dress.

ayrt, I'm not against alterations if they are done well and if the owner, if they end up wanting to sell it, prices it lower than the average resale value and explains what was done to it.

I don't agree with the "it's not for you to wear" mindset. You can buy brand and alter it or not, it's up to you. You can make OPs from brand patterns from the lolita sewing books and the GLB, and as long as you're not doing this for the purpose of selling them I'm okay with it. But I do not support design or print replica garments and bags. And I don't think ill fitting clothes look good either. I see so many contemporary sweet lolitas who think it's normal to look like you're bursting out of a dress. And yeah, it's fine if you're a collector and call yourself that but if you buy without the intention of wearing it, and you never wear it then you cannot call yourself a lolita imo.

>> No.10873025

My shoe size actually went down by one after I lost a lot of weight. Don't know if it'd be possible to go down 2 sizes if I lost all the extra fat, but I was genuinely surprised. Apparently it's quite common. There's no changing your actual bone structure though, so if you have bigass feet then there's no hope for you.

>> No.10873028

nayrt and I don't see much fatphobia outside of CGL. That might just be me though, the only other sites I go to are fb and a local comm discord, and have a peek at the reddit to see the mess there.

It's not hard to look well put together with well fitting clothes these days regardless of your size. There are shops that cater to larger sizes (maxicimam never gets enough attention), DIY is a good option if you can learn to do it decently, and so are alterations if they are done well.

Like >>10872951
said, if wearing lolita makes you happy that is very beneficial because it's much easier (and more enjoyable) to maintain healthy habits that will help you lose excess body fat if you're happy. I have rarely seen the approach work where someone tells themselves "I will only wear lolita if I have reached (insert weight here)", instead that tends to make people more depressed.

I also agree that poorly done alterations look bad, ill fitting clothes also look bad, poorly done home made clothes look bad as well.

I haven't seen the back, but I assumed she got it altered by putting a bustle in the back.

I'm half a size too big for btssb shoes sadly.

>> No.10873029

My feet are the same length they were when I was in very good shape. I've weight cycled quite a lot in the past (I do not recommend this) and noticed that it doesn't affect my feet much.

>> No.10873030


I really like her too, I think she's cute and most of her coords look decent. She isn't the only plus sized lolita I think dresses decently though. IIRC there are two others (both into old school, both smaller than the one pictured here but still plus sized) who sometimes still post to the daily egl page who I think dress well. And iirc agnes/bowsbeforebros (was that her name?), when she was much younger and before her weight loss, also dressed nicely.

>> No.10873045

This looks really good but i wish the front lacing was a bit bigger, looks kind of awkward. Other than that no complaints though.
by sewing from those books are you not inherently creating a "design replica"? I guess it's a bit different when brands have consented to it but I don't really know how I feel about taking 2 dresses that are essentially plain black poly and shoving them together so you aren't "stealing". I feel like lolitas have pretty vastly differing opinions over how much you have to change something if at all for it to be considered taboo when it comes to design replicas. Cause again, shoes seem to be completely fair game. I really don't understand the double standard. If it's because the quality is better, if I make a "better" version of a dress out of organic fabric is it now ok? Sorry for sperging out just genuinely wonder what others think of this.
I also think it matters how much of the bag is genuinely unique- I am never going to care about a basic heart or star bag being replicated. I agree with you on the other stuff though.

>> No.10873054

It's generally accepted that replicating a design for personal use is acceptable and for commercial use is not acceptable.

>> No.10873055

ok, but what a sad mindset to have, constantly worrying about hypothetical people who might possibly buy something you maybe will sell in the future. clothing is meant to be worn; letting something that doesn't fit but you aren't willing or ready to sell sit in your closet effectively makes it more 'extinct' than altering it and giving it the ability to actually be seen and worn.
i can't force you to change your thought process, but i find it genuinely sad that you seem to care more about the enjoyment of strangers than your own enjoyment of your belongings.

>> No.10873058

Seconding this! I have two pairs of Baby boots, both around a decade or so old, and they're holding up beautifully.

>> No.10873059

i went down a half size from weight loss. i've also seen pregnancy and HRT change foot size by up to 1/2-1 size. but it's never guaranteed, depends on your fat distribution and cartilage structure.

>> No.10873061

it may come from LM's rules. LM allows replicas of solid pieces and of shoes as long as they're listed as replicas, but not of prints.

>> No.10873073

>by sewing from those books are you not inherently creating a "design replica"? I guess it's a bit different when brands have consented to it

it's not a "little different" it's the main point. Brands published their patterns in those books with the intent that it is for home sewists to make clothes and accessories with. It's something else if a seamstress uses the pattern and starts producing multiple items with it to sell and profit of. That falls under commercial use and is not acceptable.

There is no good excuse imo to buy any design replicas and print replicas, whether it's garments, bags or shoes.

I'm personally in two minds about shoe replicas. I understand the argument about foot length not being something you have control over, I understand the argument about not wanting to pay leather shoe prices for fake leather shoes. Ultimately everyone has their own take on this. You can get simple lolita shoes that aren't replicas. Whether they're a design you like is another question. Personally I would buy btssb shoes if they made my size. It's my favorite brand, I have the money to spend on it.
I bought btssb shoe replicas because I'm greedy and want to wear their design with their actual clothes. It's entitled, but it's how I feel. afaik shoe replicas aren't better quality than their originals. There may be some cases in which it is, but none that I heard about. Making a better quality version of a brand dress isn't a problem until you start making them for commercial reasons imo.
You can make an outfit without any replicas, no matter what size you are. You can get plain lolita bags, shoes up to size 52 (european), you can buy socks and top them with lace yourself, you can pretty much make any garment including outerwear or have it made for you.

>> No.10873075


the distinction between a company producing a design replica and a print replica is mainly a legal one. A print is a distinct piece of art that can be protected by law. It becomes much harder with design replicas. LM might have taken the same rules so as to not get into trouble for being a platform that sells knock offs.

Both design replicas and print replicas are morally wrong because they have the capacity to seriously hurt brands. That's laid out here https://www.rainedragon.com/the-complicated-ethics-of-design-replicas/

>> No.10873083

AYRT i personally agree with you that all replicas are theft, i was trying to answer the question of why "this replica is ok, this isn't" would be a widespread opinion-- lots of beginners would be likely to adopt the stance of the most popular secondhand platform, especially if they don't have much contact with online or irl EGL communities. i could also see it being an issue of "there's only so many possible dress cuts, so sometimes even two different solid dresses from two different brands may be nearly identical and that seems to be a nonissue"

but i mean, it's one thing to make a similar dress by coincidence and another to do it on purpose. just trying to speculate here

>> No.10873097

ayrt, I see, thanks.
A good example of a design replica I've seen a lot is btssb's babydoll jsk. I think all lolitas (including beginners) should steer clear of commercially produced design replicas and print replicas, despite the fact that design replicas can be sold on LM. I don't want to police anyone, it's more like advice. I think people are going to regret their purchase if they buy a replica dress. Most lolitas think replica dresses are trashy so they will judge you. The quality is likely to be lower too. I don't really care about "replicas" of Milk's heart bag, it would just be a bag in a heart shape without any trim and without a logo (it's as simple of a design as can be), or a star shaped bag, or the most generic looking mj pumps ever with a bow on the toe that just so happened to be designed by a brand first. Those things are so plain and generic looking that without a brand logo would be impossible to prove was a replica. Something like the babydoll jsk is quite specific, so if you find something almost identical looking it's likely to have been intentional.

>> No.10873124

Fats shouldn’t wear high waisted clothes and I will die on this hill. It makes them look bulkier.

Anon that lace has a mind of its own. It gets jostled easily by moving or sitting.

>> No.10873135

nta but I think there's a huge difference between making something to your measurements for you to personally wear and making a business out of scamming people or making replicas. I don't have an issue with design replicas as long as they don't actively make the original look bad by being low quality. Basically I'd like to confirm that I feel similar to
but I see that there are multiple opinions on this issue so I'm glad to hear differing perspectives.

>> No.10873138

It depends on the body type. Not all fats are built alike. For some fats, their smallest point is just under the bust (not at their natural waist). So having a natural-waist cut would look worse.

>> No.10873143

First anon here. I was talking about commercially produced items, not something a lolita makes for herself to wear and wants to sell later on when she's tired of it. I have no problem with the latter.

>> No.10873155

Are many sellers on mercari willing to split sets if asked? Will any SS ask for it?

>> No.10873164

i disagree. personal use still takes food out of the designers mouth. lolita designers usually make minimum wage for what's basically a passion project and every time someone is selfish enough to say "i want this art but don't want to pay the price for it" it contributes to brand death and loss of passion. i understand sizing can make this far more expensive if you have to buy 2, but you aren't entitled to steal a design just because you value your access to the dress over the brands continuation and the feelings of the designers who you supposedly like so much.

designers have begged us over and over not to support replicas. in some lolita brick and mortar shops even taking pictures is banned to try and mitigate this.

>> No.10873179

Definitely interesting to hear. What if the designer never made it in the color or fabric someone wants? What if there are details someone would like to change? How much of a design must be changed to be "original" in your eyes? What if someone buys the dress to study it, gives someone theirs then makes their own? I do think it is prohibitively expensive to buy two of the same dress, much more difficult to pay for alteration and frankenstein them together than drafting your own pattern. I don't really think there should be a "fat tax" like that. I understand charging extra for plus sizes due to material cost, though.
I don't really see it as a loss of passion if someone makes their own- it's a testament to their own passion to make their own stuff. I agree we should support brands wherever possible, but it's also possible to support them without buying the dress itself in accessories, shoes, etc. You should NOT resell a personal dress you make 100%. If people posted their handmade replicas on the secondhand market I think it absolutely deserves to be shamed. "supporting replicas" is not the same as making a personal use only dress in my opinion but I do respect this take. I would like to hear more from you.

>> No.10873181

same anon, adding to this- many lolitas are secondhand only. I understand the argument that the money is still being shifted to lolitas who may buy more burando new, but ultimately there's still the argument they aren't actually directly supporting the brand, or even necessarily it's fans. Do you also feel this way about non-lolita items and "generic" designs?

>> No.10873192

Are you talking about original print replicas or someone just DIYing lolita pieces for themselves inspired by nonprint brand items?

I don't condone purchasing unique design or print replicas, that's art theft/counterfeitting but making inspired pieces for your own personal wear is normal and encouraged. Otome no Sewing mooks are a perfect example of this. No one is causing lolita designers to go hungry because they decide to use a pattern published by the brand for personal use as intended. Even if they chose to make a nonprint design replica for personal use because the color or size didn't work for them, its neither illegal or unethical. Especially sizing when many lolitas who aren't even fat but just tall or not Asian struggle to fit older pieces brands have little intention of re-releasing.

Alterations are also perfectly fine. If anything, a fatty buying 2 new pieces to make sure they can get it tailored to fit is supporting the brand more financially. And a smaller person altering their pieces is also supporting the brand if making something smaller to fit them is the difference between wearing it and promoting the brand's work or not wearing it at all and letting it rot in their closet.

>> No.10873196
File: 55 KB, 450x800, physical drop millefeuille SK.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

yeah anon from >>10873179
and I really don't see how or why paying 19k yen for picrel because you shouldn't "steal the design" is even a debate but I also recognize some dresses absolutely have more identifiable cuts and the line gets more blurry for people, thus the questions.

>> No.10873199



>What if the designer never made it in the color or fabric someone wants?

the two moral options imo are you either make it yourself for personal use if it's a non print item, or you buy one and dye it.

>What if there are details someone would like to change?

People do this sometimes. It's fine if you buy something and alter it, for example swapping out the ribbon to a different one, or changing buttons, adding or removing lace. If it ends up looking like a completely different dress it can be helpful to no longer claim it as insert brand here. That just leads to confusion.

>How much of a design must be changed to be "original" in your eyes?
You have to understand that commercial design replicas and print replicas look identical to the original to the untrained eye, which is why we call them replicas and not "loosely inspired by".

>What if someone buys the dress to study it, gives someone theirs then makes their own?
Copying a non print item for personal use, not commercial use, is fine imo. This is called "cloning your clothes".

>I do think it is prohibitively expensive to buy two of the same dress

Buying two is not your only option though. You can buy one and do your alterations with other fabric and trims. For some things you can find fabric in the same type and color, same for lace, ribbon and other trims. You can also use white or black fabric to do a bustle alteration with, which is where you insert a panel in the back of the bodice in either white, black or the original fabric from the dress (from waist ties, pockets), and then make a bustle back with either white or black.

>If people posted their handmade replicas on the secondhand market I think it absolutely deserves to be shamed.

I have no problem with people selling the things they made for themselves, as long as they actually made it for themselves to wear and didn't make it to profit off the sale. But even if your handmade is good quality you won't be getting much for it.

>> No.10873205


You are lucky if you get the price of materials for the dress you're selling. This is because really good brand deals can be found second hand. People are not going to want to buy your DIY for 65$ if they can get brand for that price. In the past half year I've seen brand skirts for around 4000~8000 yen, brand dresses for 7000yen and up.

buying second hand brand is indirectly supporting brands because if people know they can resell the brand stuff they bought straight from the store if they fall out of love with it, they're more likely to buy new since the risk goes down.

>> No.10873208


I don't think anyone here has a problem with items made by lolitas for their own use. When people talk about replicas they are 99% of the time referring to replicas made to sell/profit/commercial reasons.

why are you so curious about where the line is drawn?

>> No.10873211

i'm talking about all unauthorised replicas, both prints and solids.

GLB patterns are not replicas, they're patterns authorised for public use. obviously commercial use is an issue but i don't think i've ever actually seen someone try to sell GLB pattern items for profit.

excuse any confusion, there's a lot of parallel conversations happening at once

>> No.10873215

am the anon the other anon was replying to and this more or less covers my stance. a big reason non print original design replicas, even for personal use, bother me is actually covered in that raine article someone else posted-- classical brands like MM tend to be super tiny, and sometimes patterns you might view as "generic" are that way because they've been copied so many times, like the ekaterina OP. these replicas actively hurt the brand, and honestly as an artist, it can be really discouraging to release an original design and immediately see it ripped off 100s of times, often without so much as credit to the original, and may be part of the reason the brand hasn't released a new original design in ages.

it also kind of feels like a double standard in a way-- would we be having this decade about replicas of paintings from active artists?

i suppose there's some grey area when it comes to say, long dead brands. another question i have to ask: if you're willing to settle for a noticeably different design, why not just get a similar piece from a brand that does cater to your size instead of "lemme copy your homework but change it a little so it's not obvious" replication? or alter the dress? or make your own design? i get that plus size options are limited, but solids are absolutely more common, not to mention easier to alter.

like, i get it, clothing is for you: but if you want lolita brands to survive, there is a point where you need to support the artist, and not creating or supporting replicas is literally one of the only things these designers have ever asked of us.

>> No.10873220

I don't think enough lolitas are making design replicas (without using brand patterns) for personal use for it to be a problem big enough to affect brands. Very few lolitas can even sew decently enough in the first place. Replicating a piece that has no brand pattern is even more of a hurdle, because it means you need to figure out the pattern yourself. How many people are you seeing that are making design replicas for their own personal use successfully without using brand patterns? It's so much easier to buy something from the brand than make something from scratch. The latter is a time consuming process that includes the pattern drafting stage, probably at least one mock up, looking for and buying materials, preparing materials, cutting, sewing, pressing, finishing, etc. The few people with decent enough skills often don't think it's worth the time.

The problem for brands is (online) shops selling replicas. That is what affects them.

And also if I have a solid brand skirt that is so old it never pops up second hand anymore, the brand is either dead or doesn't intend to rerelease their 1995~2001 items, then I have no issues (morally speaking) with me making another one in a different colorway for my own personal use. This doesn't take custom away from the brand even if they still exist because they do not sell that item or a similar one and haven't done so in 20+ years.
I'm not in the "buys two dresses to frankenstein together" crowd, but I have altered 2 brand pieces and used to do alterations as a job. You have to understand that there are severe limitations when you want to alter something in a way that preserves the original design and proportions. There are many instances when that's just not possible. So you have to either look for items that fit as is, or can be altered that way if you want it to look as it was intended to. Your other option is DIY, which I think is okay if the others aren't possible.

>> No.10873271

>would we be having this decade about replicas of paintings from active artists?
Literally no one cares if you spray paint a shitty Banksy mural on the side of your house for your own enjoyment

>> No.10873277

Anon is probably new to lolita if they think that lolitas sewing their own versions of brand dresses is common enough to hurt brands.

>> No.10873285

i don't think it's common, but in discussions of morality i tend to assume we're speaking in a broad theoretical sense, particularly because that one anon wanted to know exactly where the line is. in practice realistically most replicas come from taobao and similar sources.

>> No.10873294

glbs literally include brand sewing patterns. it's a different thing to make your own, and different from using brand art on a piece which may confuse new lolitas into thinking it's brand official like how replicas do.

>> No.10873296

Of course they’re new, no seasoned lolita who actually wears their clothes would be worried about what hypothetical anons on /cgl/ would say abou their altered dresses.

>> No.10873305

yes, exactly

>> No.10873308

>has to buy two dresses so she doesn't look like shit in it

Would be cheaper to lose weight, honestly.

>> No.10873309

Someone on the Aus FB posted asking if anyone wanted to get in on her bulk purchase, because the seller wouldn't split. YRMV, but it seems like a less profitable venture if you've got a buyer willing to go for the whole kit vs piecemealing out.

>> No.10873311


That's not a thing lol No one likes fatties because most of them look gross and have very shitty attitudes. If you dress ok most people won't care, but unfortunately most fat asses don't.

>> No.10873315

A year's worth of therapy and a gym membership definitely aren't cheaper than two mid tier JSKs, and like the other anon said you shouldn't have to wait to wear what you love

>> No.10873320

Spoken like a true lardy in denial.

>> No.10873322

oh AYRT and its cause im autistic lmao, the replies about this topic and relating to secondhand deeply interest me as I'm an artist as well as a lolita, and want to get into sewing. I'm wondering what the general consensus is and I'm seeing answers I didn't expect, so it's fun to pry a little bit to gulls since I know they'll be far more honest/unfiltered.
like >>10873220 said, the "replicating" of a dress for your own use handmade has a huge skill gate that makes it impossible for most people. The amount of time and effort it takes would be much better spent elsewhere unless you TRULY love the end result and are skilled with a good design sense/ be willing to shill for fabrics. Bad handmade is posted in the ita thread constantly, and those people never seem to get better. In terms of secondhand, I wouldn't see the appeal of buying someone's personal replica of a dress over the original unless there's a specific reason. Many lolitas are absolutely brandwhores and I support that.

>> No.10873339


imagine needing therapy to eat less cake. most of these hamlitas are only like that because they think dessert for every meal is kawaii desu. you will never be momoko. eat a vegetable.

>> No.10873348

Never been overweight in my life, but okay

Imagine eating disorders existing

>> No.10873364

if you aren't overweight, why do you need two JSKs to mod?

>i don't want to pay for therapy
>then eat less retard
>no i have an eating disorder

then go to therapy, retard! you should be in treatment regardless of whether you have dresses to fit into. don't pretend this isn't circular logic unless this eating disorder of yours only exists when it's convenient

>> No.10873375


>in discussions of morality i tend to assume we're speaking in a broad theoretical sense

purely theoretical sense doesn't really work though. People sewing their own replicas only hurts brands in theory, not in practice since there is such a "skill gate" that nearly doesn't happen at all. In the last year I remember only one (1!) instance where I saw someone with a replica she made that didn't use brand patterns. It was a btssb bonnet. So in practice it doesn't hurt brands if people do that.

In this discussion about morality I'm talking in the practical sense since that is what matters. In real life is a brand hurt by (insert thing here) or not? That is the only relevant question here. One bucket of water thrown on your backyard by a neighbor will only water your lawn, a truckload of buckets of water thrown into your back yard will do a lot of damage.

Buying something, or even buying it and altering it, is always going to be easier and quicker to do than make something from scratch. So even the few lolitas who can sew well enough will choose to buy the brand item whenever possible.

You wear lolita and work on your physical and mental health. You can do both so please prioritize your physical and mental health.

>> No.10873386

fair enough!

>> No.10873397

>make replicas/infringe on brand's copyright in some way (like popxparade)
>sell the items
>buy more shit from said brand
>now you have more burando and the brand gets the money

It's that easy

>> No.10873428

a few years of therapy and a gym membership is cheaper than a lifetime’s supply of insulin or invasive surgeries.

>> No.10873463

imagine prioritizing a hobby over physical and mental health.

>> No.10873505

we are literally telling you to take care of your physical and mental health by going to therapy and the gym

>> No.10873508

I was being sarcastic. I've been telling anon she should take care of her health.

>> No.10873518

my bad, carry on

>> No.10873586

>they aren't demanding it be made in their size
anon you must have missed Victorian Maidens recent release

>> No.10873589

>alter whatever you want and wear what you want, just do it tastefully.
>You can make lolita work for you

most of the people you're criticising actually agree with you on this topic.
there's some really cute fatties out there, they're just rare because most don't put in the effort.
your 'uwu small frames, they don't know skinny girls alter their clothes too uwu' is something you've made up in your own head and projected onto the lolita community.
go outside touch grass and most importantly get off tiktok.

>> No.10873621

nta but do you live under a rock? There are absolutely people amongst the community that think fat people shouldn't wear lolita. They criticize the person being fat rather than their coord being fugly. I'm almost 100% certain >>10872953 has been posted to the ita thread before. That might not be the prevailing opinion but it's present, and feeling like you don't belong in the fashion because nothing fits you absolutely feels like shit. It doesnt matter if you're fridge sized or have tits, it feels bad to be excluded. Visibly smaller size people don't nearly get as much shit for saying they don't fit old moitie or things like that. If fat hate is culturally present (which it is) of course it's going to be present here too. I don't agree with the entirety of above anon's take and think ultimately not giving a shit about social norms is at the forefront of lolita in the first place, but it's easier said than done. I'm sure you've seen people lament how their partners hate lolita and they don't know what to do about it.

>> No.10873624

just lose weight

>> No.10873634

the fb comment section under that release was mainly people complaining it's not really plus sized according to them, I don't recall seeing people saying "You should make this in 110cm+ bust" or something like that. Maybe one or two. It can also be dismissed as purely reactionary, because I don't think they would buy it if it was made. When was the last time you've seen a lot of fat lolitas demand classic be made in their size without it being a reaction to a classic brand making a bigger dress?
Many fat lolitas just go off about sweet brands being "fat phobic" without being prompted.

>> No.10873635

I've seen her posted once, for wearing an incredibly ill fitting coord. I think she's adorable and that she generally dresses well and has good taste, but not every one of her past coords has been decent.

>> No.10873637

it's because you're all so insufferable to put up with. all fatlitas ever do is stir up drama, accuse brands of being ~fatphobic~, and when those brands reach out with expanded sizes they're either ignored or get scoffed at because you've already decided it's not good enough for you the second it's announced. maxicamam, meta, atepie, chantilly, haenuli, any number of western brands. not fat but tall or broad? IWs L size has existed for years. VM has been increasing their size range. and yet despite this robust modern selection all fatties want to do is whine that they can't squeeze into most AP (one brand that has EXPLICITLY declined plus size releases) and buy it anyway (though hell, even APs mto pieces are pretty generous). dozens of brands reach out or outright pander to fattychans, spending a LOT of money to do so, but the only brand they're interested in is the one that's explicitly rejected them. there's sweet classic and gothic options out there ranging from "sized up by professional plus size experts" to "creative use of shirring and stretchy fabrics" to "yeah we just made it bigger". this range fits fatties about as well as the normal line fits the normal weight range.

it was one thing years ago when it was genuinely shitty taobao or bust for you guys, but now that you literally have almost as many options as the rest of us and are actively choosing to ignore them while continuing to pretend there's some conspiracy to exclude you, you just sound entitled and whiny and annoying as all fuck, and you screw each other over in the process because if this keeps up, most if not all of those brands are likely to discontinue their extended sizing, and the handful of you that are tolerable and buy clothes that fit instead of vilifying a bunch of tiny foreign brands will have a harder time. anyway we have this thread every week and it sucks

>> No.10873649

nayrt but I want to add that plus sized lolitas have had plenty of options for a long time. There was a well known plus sized lolita with a closet full of jp brand around in 2004, it was definitely possible to do that. Fully shirred pieces and pieces with one shirring panel in the back and one in the front were made by multiple brands and did often fit plus sized lolitas. Sack cuts. Oversized outerwear (meta hoodies). There were also some brands doing custom and/or multiple sizes. Altering was done (mostly shared as a dirty secret among fat friends) and so was DIY. Meta's tall size. I don't know when maxicimam started doing plus sized. Btssb had their extended sizing for a while. That flopped.
Back in the old days the biggest lolita you would see would be a max 120cm bust and it would be rare. And they would not be screeching about brands being fat phobic. That's more of a modern entitled attitude. Now there are plenty of lolitas with 130~150cm bust demanding to be catered to.

I was in and out of the plus sized category (yoyo dieting) during the old school era and so was my lolita friend. But we had a great time trying on each other's dresses, buying fully elasticated skirts, getting hyped up about full shirring pieces from btssb, meta, AP, IW, making blouses from brand patterns, buying shoes, bags, socks and accessories just like everyone else. We never felt like we were excluded or that it was this cruel thing that brands weren't making more for our size. We understood that we weren't the main demographic (taller, broader framed and fatter than the average japanese lolita). Fat japanese lolitas have probably always existed as well, they just tend to be shorter and with smaller measurements than westerners.

>> No.10873653
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is this a fucking joke?

>> No.10873686

When I say "nothing" I don't mean literally nothing. All I'm advocating for is a bit more understanding both ways- to the brand designers AND the people who feel alienated. You say "you're all so insufferable YOU did this" and it's like who the fuck are you attacking because it ain't me and it aint the probably hundreds of decent reasonable fatties that get ignored because 5 people sperging on FB. I'm glad there are more options. I'm glad brands are open to the idea of expanding sizes or making shit more adjustable, but you can't even criticize something being cut/designed/patterned poorly for a plus size frame without people saying "ITS NEVER GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU HUH" and I think its an absolutely retarded take to have. If we can call out other shitty design issues and say vm's pintucks look like shit or ap's solid poly OPs are ugly and uncomfortable or you'd prefer cuts that dont only work on small tits, I can't see why there can't be people complaining about other issues. In the end most lolitas (I'd hope) want their dresses to be quality.

>> No.10873704

nayrt but I just wanted to chime in why I will never ask brands to make plus sized releases. If they're already making them that's cool, if they're not that's also cool.
Their main demographic is japanese and chinese women. Slim japanese and chinese women don't typically have much difference between their bust and waist circumference. When they gain weight they usually still don't have much difference between their bust and waist circumference. They tend to become keg shaped (a cute keg though). Plus sized japanese fashion tends to reflect that and there's almost no shape to the bust seams and side seams. If you're a plus sized westerner and not obese mega fat, you probably still have some shape to you. A japanese plus sized brand release comes with the benefit that the bust is big enough for you, but it's basically just a wider tube and to actually look decent in it you probably have to alter the armseye and rework/reshape all of the seams of the bodice. Someone might consider that worth their time and effort. I do not unless it's super cheap second hand, which it rarely is.
Japanese plus sized lolitas fit these releases pretty decently without alterations as far as I've seen, and no wonder because they are the main demographic.

I have zero trust that a japanese brand's plus size release will fit me without extensive alterations.

I would rather buy their regular sized items second hand, of which there is an abundance and sometimes at quite low prices, and perform surgery on that. I typically get dresses that no-one else wants because of stains and missing parts so that the price is really low and I feel no guilt redoing the whole bodice of a dress.

The moment I start asking a brand to release a dress in plus size I would feel that I need to follow through and buy it, even if it is low quality materials and the shape of the dress doesn't suit my shape at all. That's a lot of money for still a lot of work, so I'd rather get the fixer uppers.

>> No.10873718

honestly this is good to hear and i respect your enthusiasm. i wish more plus size lolitas had this attitude. there are absolutely plenty of ways to engage with the fashion, but people by and large seem more interested in ignoring them to fuel a victim complex. hell, plenty of burando shops have plus size staff that still manage to wear the brand and wear it decently. AP could probably release a custom size MTO and these people would still find a reason to be unhappy about it.

i see this attitude a lot in modern hobby circles: "if it isn't completely effortless to me on my first try it's because the creators did something wrong". just a total refusal to put forth any effort or creative thinking or to try and find a niche for themselves or actually engage with the hobby, there's this expectation the hobby should instantly conform to them.

there's absolutely people who don't act like that, and i do want to say that i respect those people, but the attitude has gotten so widespread that it shouldn't be a surprise when plus size lolitas start to become associated with this entitlement.

>> No.10873722

that's the thing-- a lot of the brands i listed DO consult (often western) plus size designers when making their patterns (which costs extra for the consultation, for use at the only plus size factory in japan, pattern sheeting, and quality control, by the way). they've broken down their process, they've taken requests, and there is still this very widespread attitude "oh it's badly scaled up" even if it objectively isn't, and a refusal to actually buy the releases. when metas plus size line first dropped, they almost went bankrupt. atepie has repeatedly said that while they want to keep making their 2-4 size range, the western market is the primary market, and while they'll openly request the releases, they almost never actually order them. brands have openly discussed the statistics on this, it clearly isn't just 5 people.

it'd be different if people ordered them, got them in, and then complained that the cut/pattern/sizing was not as advertised, but people write the releases off without ever seeing more than a model stock photo. there was a whole convo in another thread where this exact same thing happened (re: dolcier cutsew. which ive seen in person, by the way. it looks extremely nice).

if it's an issue of overall quality, fine, but that's across all sizes and isn't a targeted attack. but from my perspective, the issue is fattychans begging for releases, then when they get them making up reasons not to buy it, and then outright ignoring when their reasoning ("the pattern wasn't altered correctly") is disproven. and THEN continuing to insist lolita brands are excluding them on purpose and with malicious intent.

i do appreciate one of the anons i'm replying to at least admitting they don't request these releases, but these brands DO get a lot of requests, and it would help plus size lolita releases keep happening if you'd all stop insisting that all of these releases are inherently poor quality because you've been hurt before.

>> No.10873745

Is this not a problem with all western lolitas requesting a release and not following through though? With plus size people I understand that the numbers are smaller so the profit probably just isnt there if people dont commit, but they could also always set a "if this dress doesnt get enough sales we wont make it" like baroque did.
I do appreciate your insight particularly around atepie. I wish they didnt release a casual cutsew with such a glamorous jsk and instead did something that would go together, but i am particularly interested in the cutsew and youve convinced me to try it out. I think its appropriate to make a "reasonable accomodation". Like people said, plus size is a very wide range but i dont think it has to be on the very upper end to be more inclusive. I love and own MAM, Ive bought plus size meta. Theyre great, I love them. I dont request releases but i will absolutely still buy them. If the day sugar dream dome rereleases with a slightly larger bust size ever comes i will sell my fucking liver to buy it.

>> No.10873750

it is, yeah, but the problem comes from two sources:
-if western fans flake out on a standard release, usually the japanese market picks up the slack enough that it's not a huge flop overall. this kind of balances out, because sometimes a release that doesn't do well in japan is crazy popular overseas (atepie has mentioned purple colorways often go this way!)
-the overhead costs on plus size releases are so massive, and japanese customers make up like 1% of their plus size market, if a plus size release flops in the west, it flops period, and becomes a much bigger loss than if a standard release had flopped in both markets. according to data from meta and atepie, between pattern sheets (the standard size usually fits on one sheet, a plus size release may need 2-3, usually charged by the sheet), production, consultation, quality control, and the added fabric because details like bustles and shirring use a LOT of fabric for even a tiny increase of size, a plus size release can cost up to 2-3x as much to produce as it's standard sized counterpart.

ergo, one western plus size flop can be the equivalent of if three normal releases flopped.

that said: i appreciate your passion and im glad i changed at least one mind. if there's a takeaway here i hope more people will try to check these items out in store or convention pop ups or livestreams and get a better idea of what's being offered!

the staff do love and are invested in doing more releases, so hopefully over the rest of 2023 and 2024 we might see some fancier options! the cutsew was probably an attempt to offer something versatile. i'm hoping with more support from the community, in a few years we could be seeing more brands offering more variety. right now best practice is to push people to try what's out so brands can afford to keep expanding.

>> No.10873754

There are so many more plus sized options now I wish I was interested in anything modern lolita aesthetic related. When I mentioned earlier that the entitled attitude of some plus sized lolitas online (those that claim brands are fat phobic if they don't cater up to 150cm bust) was more of a modern one, it didn't occur to me to mention that this is also more of a US/canada thing. I really do think this attitude is less common in some european countries, where most people seem to be more grounded and less likely to center themselves in a fashion that wasn't made with them in mind for the large part.

As a result of the recent discussions about plus sized lolitas demanding brand in their size and then not following through when it's released I started to think that even if AP started doing everything the entitled people want it would still not be good enough. They would probably still shift their focus to another brand, for example moitie, for not making enough plus sized friendly releases.
As someone who is on the plus sized side (again, but working on a longer term solution this time) I would hate for people to assume I was one of those people claiming that brands are fat phobic and whatnot. I really am still fully enjoying all of the options even if it's only the old school ones. There's no shortage of stuff to buy even if I do complain that the second hand market is dead from time to time.

>> No.10873757

I don't trust brands to make plus sized releases curvy enough because of how measurements for japanese plus sized fashion usually are. But if I had a friend who owned plus sized meta, atepie or maxicimam I'd at least take a good look at it and ask to try it on. I really do love many maxicimam items and wouldn't mind ordering their blouses if that became a priority for me. However, and I know this might be taken as a nitpick or as ungrateful, most of the lovely size line is far too big for me (I am not bragging, I could stand to lose 10kg) to the point where I would be swimming in it and have to take everything in, but I'm too big for their regular size. Don't get me wrong, I love that they're making large sizes.

>> No.10873773

nah, i can sympathise a bit-- it's awkward when you're in that space where standard is too small but plus size options are oversized enough to look awkward (and it can be difficult to justify buying a plus size piece if you're actively losing weight, too). i hope you get a chance to check some pieces out sometime! in general people who aren't ascribing malice to brands or discouraging other people from buying the releases based on assumptions aren't really part of the problem, and it does suck when people who are big but normal about it get caught in the crossfire.

>> No.10873784

I absolutely agree. I always buy secondhand and just perform the necessary alterations myself, plus I learn a new skill!

>> No.10873800

If you ever do feel like taking a risk, there is some overlap between the sizes for the Atelier Pierrot plus sized options. I bought the Aletta jacket in size 2 because I was at the higher end of the measurements on the size 1, and there was overlap in the measurements. both sizes fit me but the size 2 I'm just making more use of the corset lacing at the back to give a more fitted appearance.

>> No.10873823

the cutsew and the jsk weren't released as a set or necessarily meant to be paired together, and a lot of atepie's blouses have extensive back shirring and can and do fit plus sized people, and work with that jsk in particular

>> No.10873843

>oversized enough to look awkward
>it can be difficult to justify buying a plus size piece if you're actively losing weight

Exactly these two things. I went back to the maxicimam page and CD japan who also sells maxicimam a few times because I really wanted one of their blouses with cotton lace and multiple removable parts (versatile!) but just couldn't justify the purchase knowing I would need to take almost everything in from the shoulder width, to the armseye and bodice seams. I also recognized the lace and knew where I could buy it myself, so thought to myself I would either get the blouse second hand for a considerably lower price (and do all of the taking in) or make something very similar myself.

It's very kind of you to mention that. Sadly atepie doesn't make anything to my taste. But seeing pieces irl could potentially change my mind so I am not discounting that.

>> No.10873854

i've lost a ton of weight but when i first got into lolita chantilly was my gateway dress-- sadly the dress i got actually doesn't fit right anymore because it's a rare case where it looks best towards the middle or max end of the measurements rather than the min end.

that said yeah, i really do think if more people had means to see modern plus size lolita in person and try things on there'd be a lot more trust that the quality has improved. sadly unless you live in japan, CA, or near one of their regular convention stops that can be kind of hard to do. so i'm hoping word of mouth can help more people take the plunge and show their friends.

>> No.10873857

>means to see modern plus size lolita in person and try things on

This is why I'm sad I no longer have any fat lolita friends. I used to have one and that made it really easy to see more pieces irl. She stopped wearing lolita long ago, then traveled the world as an artist and is now a conspiracy theorist and scamming people by selling new age treatments. Turned into a completely different person.

>> No.10873884

that's honestly tragic, sorry for your loss.

>> No.10873894

she seemed so reasonable in the past too, just goes to show some people can change in big ways.

>> No.10873927

>There are absolutely people amongst the community that think fat people shouldn't wear lolita.
>That might not be the prevailing opinion but it's present

please learn to read this is literally what I was saying in my first comment. the majority of the community likes well dressed fatties it's just that they're rare.
your hyperfocusing on a minority who are only present here on /cgl/ and who are most likely scrotes, trolls and self hating fatties like IHOP chan.

>feeling like you don't belong in the fashion because nothing fits you absolutely feels like shit.

this is an internalized feeling that your projecting onto the community, please go to therapy.
I'm too tall for most brando too but I don't think the community is tallphobic because the brands don't cater to giant westerners.

>Visibly smaller size people don't nearly get as much shit for saying they don't fit old moitie

because they're not stating the obvious.

>> No.10873932
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>so brands can afford to keep expanding.

>> No.10873935

My favorite part about the secondary market is not having to deal with scrotes. Despite every major online store being owned by a man, at least when it comes to lolita there are basically no scrotes selling anything to be found so your shopping experience is male-free

>> No.10873975

>Please go to therapy
I mean yeah, keep in mind fat people are usually fat due to mental issues. Of course they'll internalize it. I'm not saying they should attack brands and demand they are catered to. They should support brands where they can, and learn what they can to DIY. It's just another hurdle to work around, but it can be worked around in most cases.
And yes, even talls have shared that they feel excluded or discouraged sometimes. Or people who have particularly large feet. Or shoulders. All these things are shared with little to no problem. People DO immediately jump on anyone sharing about their sizing issues when large because being fat is very visible and gets a very visceral response of disgust. I recognize because I'm on cgl I probably have a very biased view of this, since it's where I interact with the community most.
Either way, I'm sure there was a point we all wish something looked better on us, fit us better, or fit at all. That's one of the reasons people sell secondhand. I'm glad we have a secondhand community to make sure pieces go to people who will love them and wear them.

>> No.10874013

idk how to tell you this but a lot of lolita designers are male.

>> No.10874053
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Oh catcy when will you learn…

>> No.10874068
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BTSSB and AP are female designers

>> No.10874103

nayrt, but I thought that Isobe designed for btssb. So I searched a bit online and found information that he did start btssb together with his wife fumiyo, which I've heard he liked to design for. But this source says mimi is a btssb designer https://kawaiikon.com/guests/baby-stars-shine-bright-alice-pirates/
Did Isobe stop designing?

>> No.10874122

>idk how to tell you this but a lot of lolita designers are male.
Name 3
Even in the old days when Mana was more involved with Moitie, it had hired designers like Alice Kobayashi.

>> No.10874126

H. Naoto
Takashi Shibata (Atelier Boz)
Mitsuba (alice and the pirates main designer)

>> No.10874129

>H. Naoto
ok fair
>Takashi Shibata
literal who?
>alice and the pirates
shit brand, dont care

so you named 1 male lolita designer other than Mana. My point stands

>> No.10874162

>asks to name 3 male designers
>they get named
>waaaah me no likey waaah

>> No.10874168

i cannot find any sources that say he's stopped designing. he was the main designer for at least 25 years. they probably have more designers now, but i can't find any statement saying he no longer designs.

Novala Takemoto also does lolita designs.

>> No.10874171

Ayrt, thank you for adding this information.
Novala Takemoto also designs? I'm surprised and curious to see what that creepy crackpot came up with. I'll check it out when I get home.
Obviously I don't mind men being lolita designers (love old school btssb), but that's quite a bit different from men in local communities and as sellers. So I can kind of understand where that anon was coming from. A while ago I saw a seller on mercari or fril who had in her TOS " I won't sell to you if you're male". All I could think was she's been through some stuff related to men buying lolita.

>> No.10874175

yeah he has a tag on lolibrary-- i don't know if he's still active, but he used to do a lot of work for Baby.

>> No.10874208
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this zoomer ita is back at it again with the costume-tier garbage for burando prices. i can't believe the mods allow this shit

>> No.10874296

aaah, the queen skull and god save the lolita stuff. I thought that was more of a collab in the vein of btssb used him as inspiration. I didn't know he actually designed it.

>> No.10874379
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aren’t most lolita items “out of print”? these descriptions by prettyheuss on lm are hilarious

>> No.10874381

they really said rare 7 times

>> No.10874407

ChatGPT cringe content.

>> No.10874525

just because you don't like the brands doesn't make them not lolita brands, and the designers not designers. can't believe this needs to be spelled out for you

>> No.10874550

I never knew Felice Fawn was into lolita

>> No.10874573 [DELETED] 

Stop defending scrotes, I don't care that A brand technically has a male designer, it doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be happy to have men anywhere near this fashion

>> No.10874677
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>> No.10874700

>at least a few hundred dollars worth of anime merch in the background
>can't afford an actual blouse
and what the fuck is up with the stripes on the sleeves? it looks like something you'd see one a sweatshirt. what a bizarre design choice.

>> No.10874727

They look like oversized pintucks

>> No.10874769

it's all taobao bootlegs, much like the blouse itself.

>> No.10874817

It's not, it's just another Vocaloid zoomer that won't spend a dime on anything that isn't Miku.
I'm tired of the permisiveness of weebs, Tiktoklitas and straight up maid cosplay shit all over lacemarket these days.

>> No.10874835

When you put something up for sale, do you keep on wearing that thing?

>> No.10874837

Not something I would advise.
If something happens to it (stain, damage, lost items) you're going to have to remove the existing listing. If you're in the midst of a transaction with someone you're going to have to explain what happened. Before you upload your listing the item needs to be ready to be shipped in the condition the listing says it's in.

Some lolitas say they'll clean the item when someone buys it. I would advise cleaning it before the listing goes up. The dry cleaning service or your wash at home method can lead to issues (bleeding colors, pilling, snags, etc).

>> No.10874852

no, but i've noticed that several lolitas do

>> No.10874873

i consider it a faux pas myself, but i suppose if they wash it and don't damage it i'd never actually know, so materially id only consider it a problem if they do damage it significantly without adjusting the listing or informing the buyer, or if the listing was specified as NWT, NWOT, or Like New (ie, "tried on but never formally worn", "worn once indoors" on jsks that likely never directly touched their skin, stuff like that where you expect condition comparable to a piece that was in a physical store and thus may have been tried on)

>> No.10875238

i hate this bitch so much and of course she's an anachan too. she lurks cgl and last time she got posted she spammed SIX whole seething replies to the post, it was funny.

>> No.10875288

This is whats going to happen in a year or 2 when lace market gets FLOODED with taobao dresses that were bought from DI.

People are absolutely delusional with how they think a second hand market works sometimes.

>> No.10875426

Then don’t buy from her?

>> No.10875531

we know it's you catcy

>> No.10875903
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if you have to specify that mods gave you permission maybe it doesn't belong here

>> No.10875951

is it some obscure lolita brand item?

>> No.10876764
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Saddest petticoat award goes to

>> No.10876780
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>> No.10876796
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>> No.10876814
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Several of these have sold in the past few months at $200-$300 and this person wants to start BIDDING at $600 oh my lord lmao