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/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL


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10821978 No.10821978 [Reply] [Original] [rbt]

I feel like I can’t be myself in the lolita community. They’ll say “everyone deserves to have an opinion!” until yours are the opposite of theirs. Ten years ago, I could talk about how lolita is a women’s fashion and how I hate men who invade our spaces - Nowadays, I can’t even say the word woman without fucking offending someone. It’s insane to me that 4chan is the only place where I can speak my true thoughts, I hate putting on a mask in front of everyone. I think I’m going to become a lonelita. Does anyone else feel this way?

>> No.10821979

There already a feelings thread, you didn’t need to make a whole thread for this

> Nowadays, I can’t even say the word woman without fucking offending someone
This problem only exists on the internet, go touch grass and interact with some people irl

>> No.10821991

>>10821978
Tranny's ruin everything

>> No.10821998
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10821998

>>10821979
>me when someone says to touch grass

>> No.10822033

>>10821979
What people say on the internet can also affect what happens in real life. Why do you think predators are allowed to come to meets?

>> No.10822179

>>10821978
>Ten years ago, I could talk about how lolita is a women’s fashion and how I hate men who invade our spaces
You reap what you sow. Women have been spending the better part of 3 decades invading male spaces, changing them for the worse and reviling anyone that disagrees with what's happening to the space, making them into social piranhas.

>> No.10822183

>>10822179
Social what? Lmao

>> No.10822206

>>10822179
what the hell are you talking about? men have never had issues with their spaces invaded lmao

>> No.10822226

>>10821978
this is so embarrassing. get therapy anon

>> No.10822229

>>10821979
Nta but try going to an irl lolita meet and expressing a political or cultural opinion that’s not diet leftist Bernie supporter. You’ll be kicked out of that group in an instant for ‘literally killing trans teens’. It’s not just the internet
>>10822179
what male spaces? OP is talking about lolita

>> No.10822292

>>10822229
> try going to an irl lolita meet
see, this was your first mistake. It’s an autistic hobby for chronically online people; you can’t be upset when they have autistic, chronically online opinions

I deal with this by being a lonelita who only makes lolita friends via social media. The few friends I make are still all autistic but I can at least screen out the toxic sjws and sissies

>> No.10822304

>>10822292
>The few friends I make are still all autistic but I can at least screen out the toxic sjws and sissies


nayrt, this is golden advice.

I can confirm that the people who are excessively woke/toxic SJW online are also like that irl/at meets.

>> No.10823214

>>10821978
>Ten years ago, I could talk about how lolita is a femboys’ fashion and how I hate women who invade our spaces - Nowadays, I can’t even say the word femboy without fucking offending someone.

Seethe harder.

(and see how retarded it sounds)

>>10822292
>It’s an autistic hobby for chronically online people
This. Sadly lolitas for the most part are beyond autistic and well beyond salvageable. There are a few "jewels" I can count with the fingers of one hand, but by far and wide trying to interact with lolitas is an exercise in frustration (female or otherwise, *no one* is exempt). Ppl in other j-fashions, cosplay, kawaii or "weeb" activities are way more chill, although the hardcore anime crowd gives lolitas a run for their money.

Idk what attracts all the autists, insecure, paranoid, even hostile, ppl to lolita. I guess being the more "way out there" fashion, the price barrier, the exclusiveness of it all, being an odd jap/chink thing... unless you make your own stuff. Curiously this type of ppl is the more down to earth one. They quietly make their own dresses bypassing most of the typical lolita shenanigans.

For my part I've kinda abandoned lolitas, only checking them once in a while, and gone with the "kawaii" crowd. This is ppl with somewhat of a link to fashion or kawaii shit in general. Also "normies", with those I throw some kawaii shit to the wall and if it sticks I'm down. I've found quite a number of ppl that ended up finding cute things, and by extension lolita, agreeable. While they may never be themselves lolitas they are good for hanging around. We share from kawaii stickers online to tea parties and meets. No more being a lonelita. Sure, an undesirable may pop up, it happens, but by the *magic* of not being a crybaby you show them the boot and done.

God, when did ppl become so retarded? Now they need masks, spaces, bubbles, they can't deal with life.

>> No.10823217

>>10822206
vieogames lmao

>> No.10823220

>>10822033
In my country a man has been sent to prison for “misgendering”. If mods want to kick out an obvious sissy they have to wait until AFTER they have undeniable proof of him sexually harassing or threatening someone, and even then they have to walk on eggshells to avoid getting in trouble for it. It was so much easier when we could simply ban creeps on sight.

>>10822206
Politics, academia, the military, in some cultures the entire public sphere. He’s angry about women wanting to participate in society while all we’re asking for is some privacy and the ability to protect ourselves.

>> No.10823222
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10823222

for me it's the transphobic lolitas, that lolita with a pseudo nazi flag at home, or those lolitas nobody heard about that have an underground comm where they can be as edgy as they want

build your heaven on earth, but you know how that goes, you all are dramma queens and junkies, you reap what you sow

>> No.10823223

>>10821978
I've always avoided coms and meetups since I first got into the fashion but I wanted to change that. I went to a teaparty for ILD, first one ever and I felt like I wasn't meant to be there. The people I sat with were pretty ok, and the person next to me was friendly but we had a raffle where people got random items off a table, socks, bags, tea set, brand items ect. and when other com members received their prizes the com clapped and cheered, when I received my prize, it was dead silent and I was just stared at by the whole ass room. I'm a 22 yr old adult, but look at max 17 thanks to genes so at the end of the meet everyone left me to go drinking at the bar. My appearance has been an issue my entire life desu, even when I go to apply for jobs/get to know coworkers, people always assume I'm underage. I love the fashion but since it's been invaded by men with fetishes, plus makes people irl think it's inherently kink related thanks to ddlg fags/tumblr, when people ask me what I'm wearing I have to say "vintage inspired fashion" or "rococo inspired fashion". Even the name doesn't help, when I say it people's faces go from excitement to disturbed.

>> No.10823224

>>10823222
>transphobic lolitas

Lol, if you have a penis and want to be a woman just admit you have autogynephilia and fuck off out of lolita. Men do not belong in the fashion unless they dress in ouji or an outfit designed for a masculine physique. So sick of men avoiding embracing being masculine, take some testosterone supplements and grow some bigger balls.

>> No.10823225

>>10823224
based retard the opposite of what was posted

>> No.10823226

>>10823225
Lol, I'm aware it's not the feels thread, I was just reiterating what the prior post said. Can't even vent about my dislike of troons anymore. Fuck nonny.

>> No.10823228

>>10823214
>unless you make your own stuff. Curiously this type of ppl is the more down to earth one. They quietly make their own dresses bypassing most of the typical lolita shenanigans.

Only the people who make good looking stuff. And that's like a handful in the western comm tbf.
DIY/sewing lolita comms are full of itas who can't sew and can't pick a good design if their life depended on it but they love drama.

I have to agree with OP though that lolita fashion is an ultra feminine fashion and there have been so many issues over the years with men in dresses trying to gain access to the community and once they were in engaging in some very undesirable behavior. These days they just claim to be trans in order to get access. They nearly always do something (rule breaking) unsavory that gets them kicked out.
It's gotten to the point where I think it's just easier to not let any men in dresses in.
But comm leaders/moderators can't tell the difference between a sissy/f3tishist and an awkward looking non passing trans woman with crappy style so they give everyone the benefit of the doubt. They're also afraid to get canceled because some people will cry "transphobia" when you don't let the obvious f3tishist in.

It's like what >>10823220 said, we have to wait for obvious predators to actually harass someone and only then can we kick them out.
I'd prefer it if we didn't let these people in in the first place, even if it means throwing the 1% of them that have good intentions under the bus. But then people like >>10823222
will cry transphobia.

>> No.10823232

>>10823225
anon was responding in agreement, what are you on about?

>> No.10823234

>>10823222
do you know what board you’re on

>> No.10823235

>>10823217
seethe

>> No.10823244

>>10823228
they can't tell the difference because they are the same. All the sissies who dressed as a woman to be humiliated now just call themselves trans and are considered stunning and brave. even worse, they are considered experts on oppression now

>> No.10823287

All sissy creepers should be given a crash course on Mana-sama. That would be the ideal man at a meet. Wig required, exceptional makeup with foundation mandatory, and absolutely no talking with their male voices. They should be encouraged towards facial plastic surgery and laser hair removal if they are gross and hairy and do not arrive with at least basic respect for onnagata. Also, they shouldn't be allowed to wear sweet. Period.

>> No.10823308

>>10823287
No. They shouldn’t be in lolita spaces ever.

>Period
Fuck off you brain rotted zoomer.

>> No.10823320

>>10823308
nta but if a male were actually as polite and nonsexual as Mana, what would be the problem with having them in lolita spaces?

>> No.10823411

>>10823320
they never are

>> No.10823432

>>10823320
we don't even know that about mana. he's a weird crossdresser from a band from the 90s. he could be an agp for all we know, he just follows traditional japanese female stereotypes.

>> No.10823462

>>10823320
He's not even non-sexual. Have you seen the recent pleather release? He's a great designer and he's not in anyone's face about being an AGP, but I would never trust him or get close to him

>> No.10823470
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10823470

The sooner all of these failmales accept that they'll never be women and off themselves, the better.

>> No.10823529

>>10821978
Sticking my hairy 6ft2 ass in some devil inspired ouji fit and posting it on Lolita message boards just to yuck your yum

>> No.10823589

>>10823462
The idea of kicking Mana-sama out of a meet for being an AGP is hilarious. Most lolitas would be delighted to be his fag hag. Based take.

>> No.10823604

>>10823470
All gender is a performance. All identity is a performance. Sorry you just realized that kid. No reason to take your anger about it out on trans people though. There's only like 1 in your entire state of Wyoming.

>> No.10823605

>>10821978
Vlogging belongs in the feelings thread.
A thread died for this.

>> No.10823633

>>10823605
Oh no we're short one 'cosplay tiddies' thread

>> No.10823636

>>10823604
You have an incredibly weak sense of self if you think those things are 100% performance. I love how incredibly weak people like you project their insecurity onto the rest of the world. Most people aren't "performing" what they think a man or women ought to do.

>> No.10823637

>>10823604
Thinking you are a woman if you have a penis is mental illness hun.

>> No.10823643

>>10823604
Imagine thinking the anatomy people were born with is a "performance" kek.

>> No.10823646
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10823646

>> No.10823648

>>10823604
Gender is the expectations of how you behave based on your sex. OP and the other anons didn’t say there’s anything wrong with being gender non conforming, like crossdressing, but it becomes a problem when you police other people’s language for how they refer to you. Like insisting a man in a dress is a real woman subject to misogyny so you have to call him “she” or get canceled.

>> No.10823654

>>10823648
>Gender is the expectations of how you behave based on your sex.
no, gender is a language tool, you're thinking gender roles. gender and sex can and should be conflated because the words are related. men are male and can never be women who are female. gender roles and stereotypes still depend on your sex, that's words like feminine, used to describe woman related traits has the same root as female.

>> No.10823670

>>10823654
‘gender’ is a language tool vs ‘gender roles’ are the expectations based on your sex makes sense, i don’t disagree. I think we agree on the important part which is they’re both derived from sex differences.
therefore, anon saying “gender is a performance” as a reply to OP was a non sequitur because OP was saying she isn’t allowed to define “woman” as “female”, but that fact has nothing to do with whether gendered characteristics are “performances” or not.

>> No.10824063

>>10823462
I’m kinda surprised that more people aren’t talking about that release. I would assume that with a fashion as adamantly non-sexual as lolita, a major brand releasing a bondage-themed dress would be super controversial. Especially since Mana-sama and Moitie are basically viewed as the pinnacle of all things gothic lolita

Personally, I don’t really think the JSK itself is inherently sexual. It’s still pretty modest/elegant, and leather is used for non-kink-related garments all the time (especially in punk fashion.) I think it’s really just the promotional photos that put it in a sexual context with all the BDSM props and whatnot

The JSK doesn’t even really read as lolita that much to me. I think it’s because the skirt is a bit on the shorter side and doesn’t look like it has a lot of volume. Maybe it could be considered ero lolita? I don’t even know if the concept of ero lolita as a sub-style is even still a thing anymore, but that’s a whole other topic for another thread lol

Anyway, I’m curious to know how you gulls feel about it. Do you like it? Dislike it? Think it’s appropriate for lolita? Think it’s even lolita at all?

>> No.10824066

>>10824063
I was under the impression that Mana-sama didn't actually design for them anymore. I've seen people mention that MMM was sold?

>> No.10824073

>>10824063
the dress wasn't bondage-themed. just the photoshoot and styling was. the dress itself only had a cross design on it.

goths wearing bondage-themed clothing is as old as goth itself (and even older as part of punk). he didn't invent it and he doesn't normally style clothes like that, so i don't really care.

i personally like it, but i wonder how well it holds up over time. ero lolita is still a substyle, but people don't know the meaning of "subtlety" so whenever people try it they just expose a ton of leg.

>> No.10824081

>>10821978
You don’t have to be a lonelita, there are lolitas who are like-minded to you out there.

>> No.10824098

Trans are fucking disgusting

>> No.10824105

>>10824081
If so, where can I find them nonny? Other than on this board

>> No.10824106

>>10823605
Oh boo hoo I made a thread. Cry about it, at least I actually wrote something of substance instead of mindless coomer bullshit

>> No.10824117

>>10824066
>I was under the impression Mana-sama didn’t actually design for them anymore. I’ve seen people mention that MMM was sold?
AYRT, idk about that but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. I just mentioned him in relation to the JSK since he modeled it in the photos and is still the face of the brand. Plus he’s still very involved in all the MmM events and announcements, even if he may not technically own the brand anymore

>> No.10824119

>>10824105
Well, outside of the board, being normal like this, will most likely ruin your reputation. but if you want to you can email me

>> No.10824120

>>10821978
>>10824119
ITT thinly veiled LOC recruitment thread

>> No.10824144

>>10822206
“Boy” scouts

>> No.10824265

>>10824120
>underaged anime girl with gun as threadpic
kek you may be right, but nobody wants to join a group of degenerate ita pedos, sexpests, and troons

>> No.10824303

>>10824120
if you think conservative Christian lolitas are the only ones who hate trannerz you’re in for a nasty surprise. you are in the minority for supporting them

>> No.10824304

>>10823604
Do you also think race is a performance? kek

>> No.10824313

>>10824098
but cute trans girls are cute

>> No.10824319
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10824319

>>10824313

>> No.10824379

#TransWomenAreConMen

>> No.10824394

why is there always a thread about trannies up on every board at all times?

>> No.10824453

>>10824394
They're an infestation in the fashion. and then, even when it's not the trannies themselves, their female handmaidens are ready to go to screech at you over them at any opportunity.

>> No.10824499
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10824499

>>10824394
Because perverted delusional men in dresses will not stop shitting up female-only spaces but if you try to discuss this in polite company you’ll instantly be labeled a bigot Nazi transphobe Trump supporter.

>> No.10824502

>>10824499
lolita isn't a female space. i hate trannies, but it's a hobby community and i'm sick of people thinking it's safe.

>> No.10824531

>>10824502
This, nowhere is safe. You WILL be strong armed into do what I want. Simple as.

>> No.10824538

>>10824502
it's a hobby community focused on a women's fashion. These are women's clothes.
Lolita fashion is made with girls and women in mind as the customer base. Even most ouji (which I wouldn't count as lolita fashion itself but rather an adjacent fashion) is made with a female customer base in mind. Why wouldn't lolita be a female space?
Just because there were a few men wearing lolita dresses since the old days doesn't mean it's made for them.
If lolita fashion was intended equally for men and women brands would market it as such.

Men are in our communities because comm leaders let them in and let them stay. The difference between now and way back in the day is that back in the day comm leaders had a much easier time keeping or kicking men out, they did it much more proactively and weren't canceled for it.

But I agree it's not safe anymore

>> No.10824539

lol cope

>> No.10824546

>>10824538
it's not a female space because it's not a space. all communities aren't spaces persay, in the same way a woman's yoga class is a space. i'm not disagreeing with you, just stating a fact. it's harder to gatekeep fashion communities, especially when comm leaders are obsessed with being inclusive. i've been in the community for over a decade and before trannies, most comms had a token asian male in them that weebs would hang all over. they've always been included.

>> No.10824547

>>10824499
for people that hate hearing about trannies it's seemingly all you people fucking talk about; nearly every fucking lolita thread here nowadays turns into a tranny hate thread somehow and it's fucking annoying to derail a thread with it as much as the inverse

>> No.10824552

>>10824546
So what if we don't call it a space but a community instead. Before cancel culture there was actually a lot comm leadership could do to keep out men in dresses. Mine did for years and actively fought off the fuckers on a regular basis.
"They've always been included" depends on the community. I've been in the community since the early 2000s (insert; why are you on cgl if you're old?.. well guess what, cgl is full of lolitas in their late 30s who've been in the comm for a long time but feel out of place in overly woke comms) and quite often spoke to people in other comms who didn't have any men/boys in it at all (whether in dresses or not). My own comm didn't have any boys or men in it either for a few years, then the first guy to be in it was a bf a lolita brought with her, and the bf wore suits at first and then branched off into dandy/boystyle/ouji/EGA whatever he called it back then.
A few years after that we had our first "man in a dress" member. Before that comm leadership had always kept them out because they were very obviously up to no good.
That guy they let in turned out to be a cross dressing fetishist (just one that shelled out for brand and kept up good behavior for a long time) so that just goes to show we shouldn't entertain them. I'm sure some comms have always had at least one guy in a dress, but that still doesn't mean that the lolita community is meant for men. I hope you understand the difference. It isn't meant for them since this is a woman's fashion but they're in the comm because leadership allows them.

>>10824547
we want to vent about the tranny infestation, that's why we're here. CGL is one of the few places we can do that. If you hate people complaining about trannies so much then why did you click on the thread you knew was going to be about it?

>> No.10824554

>>10824552
you're really missing the point. you can't call it something different but still apply the same definition to it. and i am not saying every comm had men, but historically they have included them in general for decades. i am probably older than you, and i have been in a few comms(moving for college and whatnot) and men in them aren't new. point is comms were never fully women only. even lj communities had men posting in them. they've always been liberal leaning, weeb adjacent and welcoming to anyone. they were only better about keeping predators out because sissies didn't hide under the tranny identity before. but i remember years ago on /cgl/ lolita gulls bitching about creepers trying to date comm members. it's not new or uncommon so of course trannies are included.

>> No.10824560

>>10824554
>historically they have included them in general for decades.
Including men in the comms doesn't mean the fashion is meant for them.
>men in them aren't new.
I never claimed it was a new phenomenon
>comms were never fully women only.
some definitely were at some point. One reason could be a small but growing local comm wasn't discovered by the guys yet, but also because comm leaders back then didn't want them in and didn't let them in as often as they do now.
>even lj communities had men posting in them.
I would say there were more men in online communities than in irl/local comms because especially LJ was quite unregulated. I remember the early days of EGL LJ and it was a mess. There were plenty of known fetishists on EGL LJ for at least a while.
>they've always been liberal leaning, weeb adjacent and welcoming to anyone.
I wouldn't exactly say they were always welcoming to anyone. Every comm has its own rules and standards. Those standards have changed and it's definitely not been a good change.
>they were only better about keeping predators out because sissies didn't hide under the tranny identity before.
I remember that being an excuse that was sometimes used though (albeit far less commonly), although "transgender" wasn't the term they were using. They were using language like "born in the wrong body" or " I'm a woman on the inside". They were far less likely to get away with it though.

This is a woman's fashion and therefore a woman's fashion hobby, it's not meant for men. If they're in it's because they're allowed in, not because it's meant to be for men.

>> No.10824561

It is kind of annoying how there's an argument thread up at all times, but it is what it is. So long as they are actively gatekept and shit on. And thankfully it's not too hard to do so, most will pounce at the first sissy dress thrown at them because they don't know quality and just want to coom. I have a bunch of stores to link them in case they ask what I'm wearing.
>>10824547
it's annoying and I do encounter these unwashed idiots in person so I will talk about it when given the chance. Every time I see some touch grass argument on this I cringe internally because trannies do not know what personal space is and permanently exist with greasy hair. I'm usually rude to their faces beause gendies are fucking annoying. None of them can "break your kneecaps" in person, they won't do anything if you tell them to stfu.
>>10824554
>they were only better about keeping predators out because sissies didn't hide under the tranny identity before.
>hide under the tranny identity before.
I don't understand how some people on this board and outside will insist with their whole heart and mind that this doesn't happen. I don't get the advantage to believing someone at face value like that. It's high risk low reward. Ironically it's these people that should touch grass to understand how fucking annoying and gross trannies are in person.

>> No.10824564

>>10824560
everything is going over your head so i am going to stop responding to you, sorry. you're ignoring what the reality is and arguing your own ideals against it and it's frustrating to talk to you. communities are for whoever the members of the community decide they are for.
>>10824561
because people cape so hard for trannies, it's insane. and being trans simply means saying you are, you don't need to do anything. i hate trannies but i think we can all agree it felt safer when they had to mutilate themselves in order to be trans. i remember someone in my comm was a tranny back before it was a huge thing and everyone was so accommodating and accepting, but we kicked out multiple sissies the same year all because of that label. times have really changed because i know they wouldn't have been kicked out now. communities can be whatever people choose to make them and it's just so frustrating lolitas chose to make them this way.

>> No.10824565

I hate this "lolitur fashion is meant for everyone" idea because it's obviously nonsense. Brands make their dresses for a female customer base because it's a feminine fashion intended for women/marketed towards women. If lolita fashion was really for meant everyone they'd pattern enough dresses for the average male body too. Mana isn't a fucking excuse.

>> No.10824567

>>10824565
but then fatties wouldn't be able to be in the fashion either.

>> No.10824568

>>10824564
>communities are for whoever the members of the community decide they are for

that doesn't work out in reality and you know it doesn't. If most people in a comm don't want creepy sissies in but the leadership is too scared of being canceled (because a handful of people would call them a transphobe) to keep them out then that decision doesn't reflect what the majority of the members want. People will argue you should dethrone current comm leaders and pick new ones but this is only a very temporary solution and so is creating a tranny free off-shoot comm. Even if you can manage to make it happen and don't get canceled during the attempt you will eventually get canceled purely for being in the comm that purposely keeps trannies out. This didn't used to be a problem but it is now. I'm not ignoring reality I am acutely aware of it. If anything you're the idealist between us two.

>> No.10824569

>>10824567
so?

>> No.10824570

>>10824567
Yeah, fatties should gtfo. Or at least wear the brands that actually do design clothes for them, like Meta does.

>> No.10824572

>>10824569
>>10824570
don't get me wrong get rid of them too, but you all know how many whiny people would bitch.

>> No.10824573

>>10824568
Anon, I'm NTA, but you do sound like everything is going over your head here. She means that communities are choosing to be inclusive, and as you said, people get canceled if they complain, but most people don't hate trannies unfortunately because they're libfem brainwashed. You are definitely not saying anything grounded in reality here. And you don't seem to understand what others mean.

>> No.10824574

>>10824567
Some brands have been making items in sizing that accommodates wider body measurements for a long time (pre 2000s), now if people want to argue that full shirring is always just an aesthetic detail some designers have even specifically said it was for the purpose of size flexibility and comfort.
When are brands going to start making dresses marketed specifically for men and the male body? I don't see that happening any time soon.

>> No.10824575

>>10824573

I know communities are choosing to be inclusive more than they used to and I understand that's what she meant, but I disagree this means the majority actually wants trannies in.
If you're making that choice because of cancel culture it's not really a choice.

>> No.10824576

>>10824575
And you're doing it again. The majority of people really find trannies harmless. Libfems find regular men harmless for fucks sake. The comm is now full of people who are pro sex work, genderspecials whining about kinkshaming. Why would they care about trannies? Be real for a minute. Trannies don't have everyone under their thumb because everyone is scared of them, it's exactly the opposite. People find them harmless. Most people aren't lesbians being pressured into liking dicks or neovaginas, or a business owner who doesn't want to wax a man's balls, or a young girl getting harassed or a lolita having her photos used by sissies to roleplay. Most people don't see the danger because they're not exposed to it.

>> No.10824591

>>10824576
>The majority of people really find trannies harmless.

I disagree with you because this hasn't been my experience at all. In my experience only overly woke types think that trannies are harmless. IMO normal people look at them with some suspicion. IMO the majority of my local comm and the international comm is still comprised of people who aren't overly woke, but these people are understandably afraid of being canceled by the overly woke minority so they go along with letting trannies into the comm until those trannies SA someone.

>The comm is now full of people who are pro sex work, genderspecials whining about kinkshaming.
I have seen none of that happen in my comm or neigboring comms or in the international online comms I have participated in and still participate in.
So where exactly would you say that you see people who are open about being pro sex work and where you see people whine about kink shaming?
Those aren't even acceptable topics in the large majority of online lolita spaces and irl comms (don't know about your code of conduct in your local comm though).
I don't think it's useful to have a discussion about which online lolita spaces best represent "the comm", so let's just agree that what we regularly see of the comm doesn't fully overlap and that's why we disagree and have a different POV.

>> No.10824596

>>10824591
are you new?

>> No.10824677
File: 281 KB, 741x891, 1654396736826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10824677

This but /cgl/ edition

>> No.10824695
File: 140 KB, 355x328, 1669329965540156.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10824695

I love how blood thirsty /cgl/ Lolitas are.

>> No.10824697

>>10824677
no, and this is how things are now, deal with it :)

>> No.10824772

>>10824677
This

I rarely come to /cgl/ anymore because the board is now 99% coomer cosplay threads, and lo and behold, suddenly being anti-troon is verboten too. Really makes you think

>> No.10824813

>>10824572
So let them. Why should we care?

>> No.10824814

>>10824576
>The majority of people really find trannies harmless.
Kek this is incredibly out of touch with reality. Most people find them an affront to female spaces and think they are mentally ill. Outside of leftist spaces, theyre are tolerated at besf

>> No.10824815

>>10824814
are you insane?

>> No.10824848

>>10824697
Why are all trannies so narcissistic? No one has to "deal" with your mental illness, and often, people just outright ignore or avoid you. I've seen it plenty of time at lolita meets: some creepy troon roaming around by himself while women shrink away and give tight lipped grimaces.

>> No.10824850

>>10824815
stop shitting up the board with these brain dead, useless comments. Either add something on topic or fuck off

>> No.10824868

>>10824850
This entire thread is off topic anyway, retard.

>> No.10824871

>>10824848
>some creepy troon roaming around by himself while women shrink away and give tight lipped grimaces.
>lonely troon roaming around by himself in a meet because literally everyone is avoiding him
Top kek. If they could force people to talk to them they would. But for now, they'll have to settle by walking around aimlessly like idiots, literally unable to relate to or talk to anyone who doesn't live on the internet. Not even the other fakebois go near them either, it's actually pretty funny.
>10824697
Nah. Make me

>> No.10824920

most normies really don't care about trannies either way. mainly because most of them don't care about much of anything. trannies are portrayed in a positive light by the media which makes people neutral on them at best. most people also don't know what terfs are either, despite what terminally online tras want to believe. people in general don't really care much about anything. it just seems naive to think that the average person hates trannies or even really knows much about them, even if i wish that was the case.

>> No.10824923

>>10824920
You're stupid. Any minority will experience prejudice by the majority. Not out of ill-will in all cases, but due to ignorance. At very best trannies will experience this passive discrimination. But I would bet since they became the new Republican boogeyman that the slight majority of the US hates them just like they used to hate gay people.

>> No.10824924

>>10824920
THIS

>> No.10824945

>>10824923
Republicans like trannies anon, what?

>> No.10824948

>>10821978
>It’s insane to me that 4chan is the only place where I can speak my true thoughts
I have some bad news for you anon

>> No.10824951

>>10824920
Completely disagree. Most normies have heard about troons worming their way into women's sports, and they are pissed about it. Those instances are really high profile and shared all over the news. But if you say something obvious like "men shouldnt be in womens sports" at a lolita meet, youll be cancelled. I've even had leftist "feminist" lolitas suggest that sports segregated by sex should be banished altogether.

>>10824945
Young incels on 4chan are not average republicans. Most republicans are Southern normies or hardworking, religious rural folk who think theyre abominations

>> No.10824995

>>10824920
The average normie thinks trannies are hyper effeminate fags who get their dicks cut off. They don’t know about the incel to troon pipeline, transbians threatening to coercively rape lesbians, the Wi Spa incident, or how many male sex offenders with penises are currently getting transferred into women’s prisons. If more normies knew about these things their opinion on trannies would sour but woke media does their best to tamp these news stories down because HRT is making a lot of money for Big Pharma.

>> No.10825000

>>10824995
exactly. people like >>10824951 really have no idea what normies think.

>> No.10825016

>>10824951
>>10824995
you’re both right. there’s not a singular normie opinion, it’s partisan like everything else. since we’re talking burgers here, people in big coastal cities plus anyone left leaning are going to think trans is the final form of gayness and therefore the most speshul and oppressed group ever made, whereas people who lean right think any flavor of queers is undermining traditional family structures and ruining society. either way, gay people and women lose and gender equality is going backwards

>> No.10825026

>>10821978
Cry harder, faggot snowflake.

>> No.10825028

I get you to some degree OP

>>10823287

Aligns to what I think. Far too often I see transwoman put as much thought into their appearance as they did when they dressed male...as in, not much thought at all.
They think they can put on a dress and heels and call it a day.

Nope, we got hair, make up, hair removal, shapewear, ect as part of our daily grooming. They didn't go through puberty that taught them all this so they have no idea about it.

I wish there was a way to say, "Hey so you want to be feminine and we get that, but you have to put in some honest effort if that is what you want."
I saw a program once that had a lady that made a job at taking transwomen shopping to figure out hair and make up because they honestly want to present themselves as women and not just an ugly guy in an ill fitting dress that people laugh at.

So if some dude wants to pick a good foundation, find something that hides his big shoulders, wear a wig, shapewear or exercise that beer gut, and generally make an effort, then that is good. But it's never like that is it?

>> No.10825039

>>10825028
being feminine is much more than adhering to female beauty standards, anon.

>> No.10825042

>>10824995
Yes, those are the standard REpublican shill lies about trannies. Thanks for sharing today's talking points.

>> No.10825060

I'm a guy, and trans women make me wanna puke. I don't think anything can be filthier than them.

>> No.10825133

>>10823224
>Men do not belong in the fashion unless they dress in ouji or an outfit designed for a masculine physique.
Say that to Mana and all the other vk dudes wearing lolita, if you make an expection for asians then it's just your yellowfever speaking.

>> No.10825134

>>10823432
>he just follows traditional japanese female stereotypes
>Mana
Totally forgot he dresses and acts like a normie jp girl.

>> No.10825135

>>10825134
>traditional stereotypes
>normie jp girl
are you stupid? do you also think tradthots act like normies?

>> No.10825165

>>10825134
Anon probably means being a silent object of beauty. No one mentioned clothing or normies at all.

>> No.10825169

>>10823604
It’s not just performance. If you were a real woman you would understand.

>> No.10825171

>>10824502
It’s…. Literally women’s clothing…

>> No.10825176

>>10825133
Mana’s outfits were custom made for him.

>> No.10827808

>>10821978
If being yourself is having a problem with dudes wearing dresses than kindly fuck off

>> No.10827810

just saying i've come across way more cis female degenerate lolitas who do onlyfans than i have trans people causing issues. most men and trans women in lolita who aren't just guys with sissy fetishes are actually passable and at least 90% of the time you can tell someone's true intentions w/ the fashion if you use your brain for a minute

>> No.10827816

>>10827810
>just guys with sissy fetishes
problem is that's most guys who try to get into our communities. I'll gladly drink tea with any guy who crossdresses for pure and non-fetish purposes and who can act close to normal when he attends meets. That's just fucking rare though.
And although you could rightly argue onlyfans lolitas cause issues for the community I think predatory guys in the comm (or who attempt to get into the comm) are a much bigger and more direct issue. Mods are too scared to do anything in time and still occasionally let in guys who look like sissies, who (no-one here is surprised) turn out to be........sissies.

>> No.10828037

>>10827816
Literally. I don't see how Lolitas can complain about trans women who are in it for love for the fashion when weeaboo fetishist boyfriends, ahegao profile pic girls, and literal stalkers are accepted. Hell, OP's fucking tankie weeb pic to start this thread is more cringe than most trans Lolitas. 99% of you here should go back to terf tumblr and whine about losing your safe space and how colonialist penis is

>> No.10828039

>>10828037
trans women who are in it for the love of the fashion, where? there hasn’t been a single one who doesn’t fetishize some made up concept about girlhood and jack off in their bloomers after the meet. the 1% of male lolitas who arent fetishists are usually smart enough to know they’re still crossdressing males and don’t try to call themselves women.

>> No.10828047

>>10828037
ayrt. I'm not letting trans people off the hook entirely either, I just didn't talk about them in my comment. A lot of males who claim to be trans end up being very problematic themselves. "transwoman" is now a common enough guise that fetishistic men use in order to try to get into the community. And even if we were able to always 100% tell who's a real transperson and who is just using it as a guise, then we'd still have problems because a disproportionate amount of inappropriate behavior has come from trans women compared to cis women. Sure there are innocent and naive trans women in our comms, but there are a much greater amount of shit stirrers who end up crossing boundaries a lot because they either don't know how to fucking behave or they don't care to. Just because someone is truly a trans woman doesn't mean they're not perverts. I've noticed a few are into bdsm and try to talk about their sex life during meets.

>> No.10828052

>>10821978
This whole thread is so cringe. Find a real problem to cry about instead.

>> No.10828062

>> 10828039
>> 10828047
10828037 here. My issue with your argument is that you aren’t talking about trans women, you’re talking about fetishists. I’m a mod for a pretty large comm, and I’ve never had any issues. Quite simply, if someone’s being creepy, ban them when they say something creepy. And if your comm is too accessible, then that’s on you to fix it. In my comm discord, pretty much you can only join if you get an invite from someone you already know, so we “verify” people in that way. And nobody had ever come to me for sissy nonsense nor did I ever read any comment that indicated any of what you guys are claiming is happening in your comms.

Nobody has ever accused me for an unfair ban or claim bigotry because I screenshot and explain myself. If your comm has been accused of that, then too bad. The mods need to be more assertive and explain themselves better. It’s not just trans people existing or the politics around them that’s the fault for arguing against bans.

And I know when someone is “faking it” because I take a look at all their posts and the people they’re around with. It’s pretty easy.

As for the BDSM thing, I’m not arguing that trans women can’t be perverts. But there’s cis Lolitas posting hentai and their sugar daddy relationships. Again, stop blaming trans people as a whole and look at the actual bad actors.

And let’s be honest here. 60% of these comments are just imagining the “sissies” jacking off. I’m not saying you’re not entitled to your feelings, but transphobic bias can make you think this person’s being a pervert when they’re not. If they’re in a full Lolita coord, discussing Lolita, and being respectful, I’m not banning them if the only crime they committed is having a visibly square jawline.

>> No.10828092

>>10828052
You can absorb the price inflation on energy and food when you're middle class and above, like most people in /cgl/. So instead they busy themselves with their reputations.

>> No.10828143

>>10828062
Firstly all comms need someone like you who can tell who's faking it and who isn't.

Secondly I will give actual trans people the benefit of the doubt. There could be many innocent reasons why they behave in an awkward way or cross boundaries. Nervousness, being new to a different social circle, wrongly assuming the group of people into lolita is as interested and willing to talk about certain topics as their personal friend group is, etc.
But when I've seen a disproportionate amount of trans women do things like talk about their sex life at meets or in the online comm, or even get into the topic of bdsm and kinks, or go as far as to wear bondage rope or a diaper under their outfit at the meet, then of course I notice. This isn't anti trans bias.
Of course cis women can do shit like that too, and of course some of them post the crap you mentioned on their own social media pages. But in my experience they haven't taken it to meet ups or discussed it in the online comm to the extent trans women have.
And this isn't to blame all trans women or blaming well behaved trans women for what other trans women get up to, it's just recognizing how often something happens.

>> No.10828154

>>10828062
Thank you, we need more people like you

>> No.10828162

>>10828062
Only person on this thred with a coherent thought that's not "Ewww ew all men evil show me ur ballZ to prove ur jender" appreciate you anon

>> No.10828163

>>10828062
So if you meet a man whose entire instagram is very sexual cosplays of him dressed as a woman, then what? Is that considered bannable or would you give him the benefit of the doubt because its not lolita? I met a guy whose profile was just that and, to me, it was a blatant sissy fetish.

>> No.10828164

>>10828143
Huh you mean men who wear dresses in public have a tendency to act like socially retarded perverts? You don't say!

How does one define what an "actual trans person" is? Who has the authority to decide whether someone's "actual trans" or not?

>> No.10828185

>>10828164
>How does one define what an "actual trans person" is?

You can't always tell. I know a guy who is quite wholesome on the surface and who has managed to convince the medical specialists involved in his medical transition that he is indeed a trans woman. "born in the wrong body" and so on.
However he has told me (when we were close friends) he does it because he gets off on it. That he regularly masturbates to the image of himself as a woman, and that activities that make him look more feminine (such as dressing up, doing his hair, shopping for pretty clothes) arouse him sexually. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who he has told this to.
IMO being transgender is not a fetish or something you get off on, so he's not a real trans woman. But a lot of tax money went into catering to this guy's fetish because he gets HRT, has gotten permanent hair removal done on his face and a lot of other procedures involved in his physical transition. He's gone on angry rants about how his boob job wasn't covered because he had too much breast growth from HRT to qualify for the insurance. When he could have easily just put money aside for it with his pretty good salary. We gradually grew apart because I found out our norms and values were too different. I found him to be entitled and petty in the end, and just generally immoral. He hid it well for years though. I met him at my local lolita community. He stopped wearing the fashion so luckily I didn't keep bumping into him at meets and online. We were actually really close friends for 2.5 or 3 years or so. His social mask is really pleasant and outgoing so no-body suspected anything wrong. On the surface he gave off no fetish or pervert vibes.

There's a young trans woman in my local comm and she seems very nice and acts normal. I don't suspect she's lying about being trans. I know it's wrong but I tend to believe them more when they pass better and seem more like cis women.

>> No.10828249

>>10828062
>>10828143
>>10828185
nta but there are literally no trans women who aren't fetishists. every time i've given one the benefit of the doubt in the past, give it a few years and boom, some evidence comes out about him violating somebody's consent, bringing sexual attire or sexual conversations into public, or, like you said >>10828185, revealing he realized he's trans because putting on a skirt gave him a boner.

if they did not fetishize the female body and want to have sex 'as a woman' (which they usually perceive as a humiliation thing or as living out an anime stereotype) then they would just be crossdressing men. they are fetishists by definition.

>> No.10828251

>>10828249
10828185 here, if all trans women are fetishists is there still such a thing as trans? Or are they all just lying in order to get their fetish catered to? To me being trans means identifying as the opposite sex and that people who have a crossdressing fetish aren't real trans. But when I think about identifying as the opposite sex does not exclude having a fetish.
Just imagine public perception of transgender people when they find out all of them have a fetish. I'm sure they would no longer be willing to fund programs that help people go through their medical transition. All that money for bottom surgery, boob jobs, HRT, facial feminisation surgery, etc. Just poof! Gone.

To be fair this does ring a bell because there are "trans women" who swear that being aroused by the idea of themselves as women is at the very core of being a trans woman. There's even one who preaches that "being fucked is female".

>> No.10828284

>>10828251
trans stuff is usually an identity crisis when it's not a fetish. uncomfortable gay men or lesbian women can think they should be the other gender. teens unhappy with their body changes, or teased/bullied due to not adhering to gender stereotypes can as well. hell even some incels and femcels become trans because they think being the other gender is easymode. even so all these things are better worked out in therapy, including the fetish aspect, but are more medically lucrative as invasive surgery requiring maintenance. especially in the US when doctors make the most money from it. doctors in the US already make money mutilating baby genitals, why not adults?

>> No.10828296

>>10828284
I read somewhere that people who are autistic have a higher chance of identifying as trans because they don't feel that they fit gender norms and it just becomes an answer.

>> No.10828297

10828037 again.
>>10828163
Same way I treat Lolitas who cosplay as the OnlyFans version of the 14-year-old anime girl du jour. Keep it away from Lolita, plus they'll be frowned upon by other comm members anyway. But if SissyLover69 is commenting on there, ban hammer.

>>10828185
>>10828249
Sometimes, you do get a bad actor. It's unfortunate, but there are. But it literally doesn't entitle you to think about this way about all trans people. I had to kick out an autistic cis Lolita because she was harassing another member. I had a lot of awkward/disturbing interactions with autistic people in the past. Doesn't mean I'm going to ban all autistic Lolitas from my comm. Always giving the benefit of the doubt is hard, but tough shit. That's literally the job I signed up for and will gladly do.

And I just wanna say. Let's say you become friends with a trans person, and you bond outside of Lolita and get involved with your lives. Discussing sex will not be my problem. Lolitas aren't all chaste Victorian virgins, we have lives. Discussing sex with someone who happens to also be a Lolita doesn't mean they're predators. Those two areas of life can be separate.

And on the fetish thing. Just because someone gets aroused because of femininity, that doesn't mean they're a fetishist. I would bet my entire closet that no feminine woman would enjoy sex in boxers. Women, cis and trans, get aroused by wearing girly lingerie. That's normal.

I'm also going to out myself here and say that I know why trans people are so weird about discussing sex in public. Because in the BDSM community and tumblr "be gay, do crime" communities, that's encouraged. As another anon put it, they assume that all "weird" alt people are the same way they're alt.

I'm not saying feelings of being threatened aren't alright, but be assertive, defend yourself, but think with an open mind.

Also, the answer is that all normal trans women are busy wearing normie wrap dresses, not Lolita.

>> No.10828313

>>10828297

10828185 here, I think I've been consistent in not tarring all trans people or all trans women with the same brush. I think >>10828284 had a much more accurate and fair pov than just "all trans people have a autogynephile/autoandrophile fetish". Lots of people, especially young people, question their gender because of their sexual orientation or because they don't fit gender norms.

I know you meant to explain you don't tar all autistic people with the same brush just because you had some bad experiences with autistic people. But I feel the need to point out that an autistic person being socially awkward isn't comparable to anyone who brings their fetish to the meet or to the online comm. If the autistic person is a stalker or says very gross/unkind things then sure a ban is justified. But let's not put socially awkward behavior that makes people uncomfortable at the same level as consent violation.

>Discussing sex with someone who happens to also be a Lolita doesn't mean they're predators. Those two areas of life can be separate.
Yes, obviously. But you have to make damn well sure that that other person actually wants to know about your kinks. I never said the guy was predatory in the way that he contacted people in the comm and asked them to do sex stuff or SAd them. But people who wear lolita for fetish reasons and walk around being aroused at the comm meet have no place in the comm. That's creepy and wrong no matter how well you hide it.

>I would bet my entire closet that no feminine woman would enjoy sex in boxers. Women, cis and trans, get aroused by wearing girly lingerie. That's normal.
I highly doubt any cis woman gets aroused by the image of themselves as a woman. Being a woman is our normal every day reality, there's nothing inherently arousing or sexy about it. Feeling sexy or being aroused because you think you look nice in lingerie is for different reasons, is something entirely different and not comparable to the autogynephile fetish.

>> No.10828322

>>10828297
>Because in the BDSM community and tumblr "be gay, do crime" communities, that's encouraged.

Fetish and kink communities tend to think consent is one of the cornerstones of kink and fetish. Talking about your fetish or kink in a non kink space like your local lolita comm meetup or in online lolita spaces in general is the stupidest thing you can do if you don't want to get banned. Lolitas have always been quite vocal about it not being a sex thing, that they don't want people in the comm who wear lolita for kink/fetish reasons and that they don't tolerate any sex talk at all in the online comms.

People like Kat Blaque have said that a large portion of trans women are into BDSM and stuff like that. They need to learn that just because those topics are okay to discuss in their bdsm comm and with their friends (who they've asked consent from) doesn't mean random people at the meet or in public want to. If trans women are always insecure about if they're accepted in the comm then it's a good place to start for them by them not discussing their own sex lives.

Do you think trans women who aren't into alt fashion are less likely to be into kinks/fetishes?

>> No.10828323

the trans and gay communities are built on making sex and fetish topics part of public conversation. There is massive dissonance between them and most other organized social groups (such as comms) because of this

>> No.10828460

>>10828323
I'm a lesbian and you've described why I don't like fetish/kink stuff at pride events, and why I am not a member of any lgbt+ communities. I have no personal interest in kink/fetish and have no interest in discussing my sex life in public or with people I'm not extremely close to. I hate stuff like that because it makes us look like perverts who have no concept of healthy boundaries. I used to be a member of a WLW discussion group but left because it was quite uncomfortable with all of the hypocrites (homophobia, misogyny) and people constantly breaking the rule that said not to hit on anyone.

>> No.10828487
File: 43 KB, 1024x598, 1673134555099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10828487

Men should absolutely have to prove they are not fetishists and/or creeps. I'd love a blanket ban of all men. Every time they end up into some creepy kink shit. Every single time.
>but mana, but muh male japanese designers
Not the same thing and everyone knows it. Also, they don't pretend to be women, they are upfront about being men.
>>10828297
You should be banning autistic people if they cannot behave properly in public. People at meetups are there to hang out and discuss the fashion, not be someone's tard wrangler. There's too many bad actors who use their diagnosis as a shield to be inappropriate without criticism.
If they're masking or only mildly awkward, or if they improve after they're told they are acting inappropriately, this does not apply. But seriously, people need to learn to put their foot down and say fuck off again.

>> No.10828493

>>10828487
>Also, they don't pretend to be women, they are upfront about being men.
mana doesn't use male pronouns though...he's a genderspecial.

>> No.10828500

>>10828493
Mana is not inserting himself into any local lolita comm is he?
It's still not the same.

>> No.10828548

>>10828500
it still sets a precedent. otherwise you wouldn't bring it up. and he used to go as a guest to cons and participate in tea parties, which again, sets a precedent.

>> No.10828550

>>10828548
how is mana attending events as a representative of his own brand the same as guys with cross dressing fetishes/sissies attending local meets and creeping people out?
They're male but I think that's where the similarity ends. Mana is never a good excuse for fetishists in the comm.

>> No.10828602

>>10828550
do you know what a precedent is?

>> No.10828663

>>10828602
yes and mana going to events to represent his brand is not a precedent for creeps creeping everyone out at the local con meet.

>> No.10828679

>>10828663
got it, you don't know what it means.

>> No.10828682

>>10828679
Precedent; "an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances."

The circumstances between mana attending an event representing his brand and a sissy creeping everyone out at the local meetup aren't similar enough so it's not a precedent you smooth brain idiot.

>> No.10828723

>>10823214
>ppl
why.

>> No.10828737 [DELETED] 

>>10824850
total nigger death

>> No.10831793

>>10821991
2nd post, best post

>> No.10831817

>>10828723
Better than “folks” desu

>>
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