j-fashion zine

[Anonymous No.10714491]

hi, i posted this in the draw thread and some people interested told to make my own thread, so!

i'm putting together a little digital j-fashion zine for fun, focusing on a different fashion each issue. if you have any art or coords you'd like to contribute (any fashion!) reply to this post or dm here: evergreen#2003

if there's a demand for it i'll make my own thread for this :) also open to name suggestions!

[Anonymous No.10714493]

(oops, that last line was left in from the post in the draw thread!)

[Anonymous No.10714495]

who cares. this doesn't deserve it's own thread. your art is shit.

[Anonymous No.10714499]

>>10714491
This is a good idea, but probably best to get people from other platforms like twitter / instagram instead of cgl

[Anonymous No.10714503]

I think it's a good idea as well but having one for /cgl/ would be chaotic. It's not often we make OC here besides memes. Twitter/Instagram would be the better option but honestly I dislike the mindset of what lolita is from those groups and you may be forced to put in gender especial, HAES and ita shit.

[Anonymous No.10714507]

>>10714503
>you may be forced to put in gender especial, HAES and ita shit.

Exactly. No body wants to deal with that drama shit publicly, even though this fashion ISN'T about acceptance.

[Anonymous No.10714526]

>>10714491
this entire post reads as "please give me content i can't think of any myself!"

[Anonymous No.10714528]

Why is everyone so boring here? This board is dead, some OC couldn't hurt for a change. Not OP, but this must be the least creative board on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.10714530]

>>10714528
she's not going to release it on the board you faggot. she's just fishing for ideas. if she actually had some plan she would have outlined it.

[Anonymous No.10714536]

itt: people who dont have any art skills getting butthurt over someone wanting to make something

[Anonymous No.10714538]

>>10714536
if she had the skills she would make it and then advertise here. ffs that tranny lolibrary ripoff had atleast a test app. OP couldn't slap together a mock cover.

[Anonymous No.10714545]

>>10714530
nta but who cares. you lolitas are dead eyed bass levels of boring.

OP toss in some old street snaps.

[Anonymous No.10714550]

>>10714491
You’ve got another one coming if you think anyone is going to want the zine when your art looks like this. This legit looks like my middle school doodles, le random XD speech bubble and all.

[Anonymous No.10714552]

>>10714550
cope and seethe harder

[Anonymous No.10714559]

>>10714538
>she would make it and then advertise here
that's not how zines work. she'll obviously need a team and people submitting content.

[Anonymous No.10714562]

>>10714545
do they still sell those vivi westwood rocking horse shoes anywhere? i missed the melissa collab.

[Anonymous No.10714573]

When will newfags and itas stop trying to make zines? Every single one that’s come out has been a tacky mess.

[Anonymous No.10714574]

>>10714573
A tacky mess of a zine is still better than zero zines.

[Anonymous No.10714591]

>>10714573
wasn't that the original intention of zines?

[Anonymous No.10714595]

OP, put together a skeleton and layout and I'll toss some help in.

[Anonymous No.10714603]

>posters: 8
>replies: 19
what's with the angry samefagging

[Anonymous No.10714613]

>>10714574
Zero zines > low quality zines. Cope harder.

[Anonymous No.10714616]

>>10714603
Probably some male anons that want to put down anything gulls do.

[Anonymous No.10714634]

>>10714603
Boring women with zero talent whining because someone else wants to put theirs to use

[Anonymous No.10714650]

>>10714491
I actually like this OP, it's cute in a nostalgic way. Good luck for your zine, though i don't recommend /cgl/, a good 80% of the people here are LARPers or don't wear lolita kek

[Anonymous No.10714651]

>>10714538
>tranny lolibrary ripoff
what are you going on about anon? did you take your meds today?

[Anonymous No.10714666]

>>10714562
you've always been able to order them
directly from Vivienne Westwood, they never stopped producing them

[Anonymous No.10714694]

>>10714491
Bibelot rose, are you back? Where's your book people paid for?

[Anonymous No.10714778]

op here, wow this got some serious backlash. the art isn't mine btw, it's from the tokyo fashion fest 2009 at FIT. i just grabbed it because it was dumb/funny/kitschy/diy-y.

anyways - the inspo for the project came from the fact i ran a nanchatte blog for a tiny bit with some instructional OC and really enjoyed taking a look at "smaller" jfashions and would love a "monster of the week" style publication that tackles something different each issue.

the reason i posted here was because i didn't want to grab old FRUITS street snaps or whatever because well those are people who didn't consent (and technically another publication's work) and it would be nice to feature actual content from the community. most of what i was looking for was just pics i could use as examples when talking about certain aspects of a fashion.

if anons really want a skeleton outline i can do that! i just made this thread to gauge interest and see if anyone was interested at all. my next update will probably be an outline, cover mockup or something similar (if this doesn't get too much backlast? lol)

[Anonymous No.10714792]

>>10714778
i am definitely interested op! excited to see your next update

[Anonymous No.10714799]

>>10714694
Oh, how I wish this was Bibelot Rose. My favorite drama from last year.

[Anonymous No.10714816]

>>10714495
Who hurt you

[Anonymous No.10714859]

>>10714491
This looks like rrm's shitty art

[Anonymous No.10714865]

>>10714778
This board is always toxic as hell, your idea is cool and I am looking forward to it. Zines are fun, casual, and community-driven, is good.

[Anonymous No.10714874]

>>10714865
nta but the board is newfag as hell. a bunch of edgy newfags come onto this board and try to fit in with oldfags and then talk about shit they know nothing about. it's annoying as shit. just don't talk about the fashion until you have enough years under your belt.

especially funny when I see someone critique someone else that's been in the fashion for longer with really bad criticism.

[Anonymous No.10714878]

op here! in this pastebin i talk about some ideas including a (very) skeleton outline for issue #00.

https://pastebin.com/DibUjgLR

[Anonymous No.10714922]

>>10714878
I like the idea anon! is it supposed to stay a /cgl/ thing or should we spread it around trusted people in our comms etc.?

[Anonymous No.10714934]

>>10714922
thanks! feel free to spread it around!!

[Anonymous No.10714945]

>>10714878
It looks good but I wish more zines would make content for people who already wear lolita instead of going over the same lolita 101 topics over and over again.

[Anonymous No.10714962]

>>10714945
I think having the very first volume get all the basics out of the way is good. it means you dont have to constantly drag it out or rehash it in later volumes

[Anonymous No.10714972]

I’d be really interested in doing a secondhand guide for the zine. I have many hackz

[Anonymous No.10715011]

I might like to contribute a few small drawings. I will have to make a throwaway email for contact, but im really excited for this zine!

[Anonymous No.10715012]

>>10714878
would like to submit some art. when do you want things submitted by for the first release?

[Anonymous No.10715013]

>>10714778
>the art isn't mine btw, it's from the tokyo fashion fest 2009...

And how does this make the art good, anon? It's still terrible, and that doesn't bode well if you're making a zine. You could try asking people nicely on social media if they'd provide images in place of street snaps. They might even give you snaps of outfits not on their social media. That's one idea. In exchange, you could give them a zine.

If you have money, you can hire good artists to create content for you like your cover page. Perhaps familiarize yourself with all the j-fashion magazines so you have an idea of what people like to read about. (Stores! New makeup! Events!) You can greenlight meets and events that aren't sketchy or subpar, and focus on publicity for well-put together events.

If I see a zine with that art from Tokyo Fashion Fest 2009, I'm not going to want it even if it's free. If nothing else, you've learned that here.

[Anonymous No.10715018]

>>10714778
Adding to what I said in >>10715013, I'd love a zine & even would pay for one about j-fashion, interviews, and all the things related to it, but anyone who ever comes out with one? It looks like a 90's Limited Too catalogue or has art like your original image.

Maybe people aren't being mean, but being honest. Obviously we'd be interested in a j-fashion magazine, even cosplayers would find it interesting, but can you make one that's not shit? That's the real question to ask yourself. Those who'd be truly interested have high standards, you know. It's fashion.

[Anonymous No.10715020]

>>10715018
Kei collective ran a zine for a while that was super cute, but they stopped making them. Would you consider them to fall under one of your categories

[Anonymous No.10715023]

>>10714778
All the publications are from Japan. The truth is there's slews of girls of all ethnicities wearing J-fashion, but there's no publication that showcases the best of the best like there is in Japan. I guess what I'm saying furthermore to everything is that it's not as if the niche for a "Western" j-fashion publication isn't open, but nobody ever goes about it the right way. You don't end up with a magazine about recent store openings, events, interviews, or at the very least images showcases the slews of women (and men!) on social media who are actually good dressers. There's also never anything interesting to read either. Half the zine will cover something that should've really only took up 1 page like a small shop or something.

And it all ends up looking unfinished or like pastel Limited Too 90's vomit.

>>10714613
>>10714573
>>10714550
>>10714536
And all the related sound harsh, OP, but maybe think about the fact these responses are coming for a reason, and that's because no one's ever gotten it right.

[Anonymous No.10715026]

>>10714778
sounds like you have no idea what you're doing

[Anonymous No.10715027]

>>10715023
showcasing*

What I'm trying to say is no one ever really does any quality control. Maybe 'quality control' sounds harsh, but it's kind of important.

[Anonymous No.10715030]

>>10715020
If they're one of the ones I'm thinking of, there wasn't anything wrong with the content outside it took up too much room and visually it was 90's Limited Too mess. It's always so juvenile. The image I used in >>10715018 is of a kogal schoolgirl, and it looks less juvenile than any "Western" j-fashion zine that's came out.

I like the image I've attached for being a nice, clean design.

[Anonymous No.10715054]

op here, thanks for the feedback everyone!

>>10715018
i think you're reading into the OP image a bit. it was just a silly image for the first post - it was never meant to go in the zine. people were acting like it was my art, so i was just clarifying i didn't draw it. looking back putting it as the OP image was a little misleading lol.

i appreciate your advice. i do also want to clarify that i'm not upset or anything! i never said people were being mean, just that i got some backlash, and that's fine.

but i also want to let you and everyone know that this will not be a professional publication - i won't put money into it or get any money out of it, and i (and everyone else involved, if any) will be doing it purely on my own time. i will try my best to make it, in your words, "not shit," but no promises. don't expect GLB-level production out of me! (please)

>>10714945
i totally get where you're coming from - however i don't think it's something i could do in this format exactly. since it's not exclusively a lolita publication, to expect both the writer and the reader to have in-depth knowledge on every single fashion listed is a little unrealistic.

i am trying to meet in the middle though. the plan from the beginning has been not to hold the readers hand, and to make sure the zine will be interesting for readers of all levels. the one that will be the least interesting will be issue #00, because it's an intro (and a test-run on my part, so it can pretty much be skipped over if you're not interested.

>>10715011
>>10715012
so happy to hear you're interested! you can send me whatever at [e-mail] but you might prefer to wait until after some of the articles have been written so you can match what you're drawing to what's been written. it's really up to you!

>>10714972
email me or message me at the discord in the OP! planning to write most of the articles myself but happy to get other people involved if they'd like to.

[Anonymous No.10715058]

>>10715013
Dude why are you so dang negative? Who shit in your cereal?

[Anonymous No.10715066]

>>10715058
That anon isn’t being negative; they’re being realistic. There have been a TON of people who have wanted to create zines or anthologies over the years but very few make it past their first few issues. Making a zine isn’t as easy as just slapping together basic content and hoping that all lolitas will love it. There needs to be high quality content and quality control, like >>10715027 mentioned. We all want our passion projects to be successes, but we also need to be realistic about if this zine will succeed or end up in the zine graveyard.

[Anonymous No.10715140]

>>10715054
>to expect both the writer and the reader to have in-depth knowledge

I don't expect the readers to, but I certainly expect the writer(s) to. After all, the writer's job is to be educated on the subject no matter what it is. Still, you don't need money if you think about it to design something like >>10715030 in appearance.

>>10715058
I'm not being negative, and I could be your 'shit in your cereal' editor, but you likely wouldn't want that..

[Anonymous No.10715158]

>>10715054
Also, anon, I checked out your paste bin. My suggestion is:

>cover page
(Cool.)
>1. about this zine
(Okay.)
>2. about cont.
(Why 2? How about in this issue table of contents?)
>3. a short history of j-fashion
(CHANGE TO FEATURED J-FASH; SEEK OUTSIDE SOURCES)
>4. history cont.
(Change to short interview with wearer/store/maker?)
>5. vocabulary
(Okay... fashion pictures are better as vocab. can be worked into short history.)
>6. vocab cont.
(One page is enough; anatomy of outfit perhaps? Why not... fashion PICTURES.)
>7. j-fashion vs cosplay
(Overdone & did to death... PICTURES. Maybe makeup.)
>8. find your comm
(CHANGE TO FEATURED COMM)
>9. buyers guide -
CHANGE TO fashion (Stores, secondhand, new platforms, all sorts of stuff; center around featured j-fash perhaps?)
>10. buyers guide -
CHANGE TO beauty (Stores, products, swatch tests, all sorts of stuff.)
>11. movies
(Change to media to flesh out more content)
>12. music
(Change to media to flesh out more content. Lots of possibilities. In the media, movies, music, news articles. Don't pigeon hole.)
>13. resources
(Let's change this to fashion PICTURES & move after 4.)
>14. resources cont
(Change to special thanks, miscellaneous stuff, credits, comics, whatever.
>back cover (special thanks, etc!)
No. Just back cover.

>>10715058
You can still call me Negative Nancy.

[Anonymous No.10715160]

>>10715054
Past >>10715158, were it a physical copy which is doable. I'd focus on actual fashion, photographs of those wearing it, stores, and the ilk. Artists can be among those 'featured' in interviews for print related stuff.

And then I'd with every issue get small stickers printed of one or two artists' contributions each issue to go with the zine as a freebie as the 'art showcase' alongside possible interviews. Stickers are pretty cheap these days, but you said you weren't investing money.

>(What if someone could invest some money?)

[Anonymous No.10715186]

OP is clearly ita as fuck

[Anonymous No.10715188]

>>10715158
>>10715160
Why are you helping this retard? Her entire zine outline looks like a high school report.

[Anonymous No.10715195]

>>10714878
Personally I wouldn't look at it based on the outline you have. I already know the basics about lolita like the terminology. Trying to tackle different topics and styles in each issue would turn me off from even downloading this because I couldn't care less about anything that isn't what I wear. If you're planning for beginners to read this its fine but you're alienating those already in their respective fashions.

For me, I like to read short interviews and look at street snaps. I also like reading rundowns of what the people in the snaps are wearing. Talking about recent releases would be fun to read as well. Stick to one fashion type and you'll draw a bigger audience in that niche.

[Anonymous No.10715260]

>>10715195
>short interviews and look at street snaps
This won't happen for a small-time zine. If OP doesn't live in Japan, there's no way they're going to be able to get street snaps. Short interviews would only be for the same old group of "lolita influencers" we see over and over again like Lor or Tyler.

[Anonymous No.10715311]

>>10715260
What are you going on about? Take photos of your comm or ask for submissions. Street snaps don't have to be taken in Japan only, wtf.

Same thing with interviews. It doesn't need to be an influencer. Your comm works plenty well. Or ask the girls you're photographing about what its like to be a lolita, favourite places to go in lolita, et cetera.

[Anonymous No.10715314]

>>10714778
Do it please

[Anonymous No.10715328]

>>10715260
Or the numerous people on social media wearing the fashions who aren't Lor or Tyler.

[Anonymous No.10715338]

>>10715260
they don't do zines for that shit anymore anyway. it's all done on ig now through vlogs/photo captions.
plus, OP sounds like she has no idea how to keep making issues. her "outline" was just for one issue, unless history of jfash would be in every one of them. the idea is half-baked at best and i hate anons who use /cgl/ for handouts like this.

[Anonymous No.10715364]

>>10715311
nta but who the hell wants to look at snaps and read interviews of a completely random comm lol. street snaps in Fruits are interesting because we want to see what jfash wearers from Japan are wearing and what they find trendy. I’m not going to give a shit about what Jane from St. Louis thinks is relevant in jfash.

[Anonymous No.10715370]

>>10715364
Not everyone gets wet at the sight of a Japanese teenager or cares about trends in a niche street fashion
>captcha:WAP2N

[Anonymous No.10715396]

>>10715364
Why? JP trends aren't everyone else's trends. Certain trends don't look good on everyone either. It'd be more valuable to collect shots from a variety of countries, like Girlism does on their blog. Anon wouldn't have that kind of pull tho

Should I gush over the minimalism trend in Japan too?

[Anonymous No.10715403]

>>10715364
god this is why the lolita community here is such dogshit. you're satisfied to have tyler's edgy ass and lor at the forefront of the comm as long as you can jack off to asian girls.

[Anonymous No.10715455]

>>10715364
I actually think it would be super interesting to hear form 'random' comm members, I find normal people who wear the fashion are normally a lot more interesting than the big name 'influencers'. Also these normal people are more likely to actually regularly wear the fashion, not just for taking insta photos for clout.

[Anonymous No.10715537]

OP when you said j-fashion zine, I was dearly hoping you meant something like pic related or https://sibzine.storenvy.com/products/28473134-pdf-pretty-bad-boys-a-takahiro-sakurai-tribute-zine
*Neither of these are my zines by the way and I have nothing to do with them.*

As in: You have artists that draw an illustration of a fashion style of their choice or from a list. Lolita (sweet, classic, gothic, ect), Nanchatte, Gyaru (kogal, hime, rokku, ect), other styles you want to include or what-have-you.
Not whatever this is that you're doing. What you're going for really doesn't feel like it...allows? for artists can help you to be honest nor does it seem like anyone would be super interested in -- its sounding like general information with new(er) images slapped together that anyone that's actually interested in the style(s) could just find on the internet. What you're describing is already in Japanese magazines; IE: >>10715018 >>10715027 >>10715030 so its already been done to death nicely and is easily found.
So no offense, I just don't see it taking off that well to even get past issue #000.

Now if you were to actually do an ART zine with cute art from different artists - even if we kept your idea of 1 style per zine - that'd be worlds more interesting and fun. You'd find that you'd be able to sell a (or do a pay-what-you-want) pdf and/or a physical copy with additional goodies to both people involved/interested in j-fashion and people that are just here to see cute art. In fact, I'd love to be involved in drawing in an actual zine of this type and I'm absolutely willing to help if you wanted too. I really don't mean/want to steal your thread but again, I'd love to set something of this type up or help you set-up something that works (If you or anyone else wanted, I'd be happy to help get it going: Inarizushi#2631)

[Anonymous No.10715545]

>>10715364
Take some medicine for that yellow fever. As if the people in Fruits are anyone important. I want to see what's popular around the world, not just Japan.

[Anonymous No.10715621]

>>10715537
>Not whatever this is you’re doing.

Zines are historically a combo of images and written content, the fujoshi art zines you linked are not the norm. What you want sounds like a completely different thing from what OP is describing, maybe you should make your own zine?

Tbh I’d be more interested in reading interviews with / photos of real people than deviantart tier procreate drawings of j fashion but different strokes I guess

[Anonymous No.10715680]

>>10715621
>Zines are historically a combo of images and written content
True but when people say "I want to do a zine" in a drawthread (>>10714265) its a zine of the art/fanart variety. Why would I not think it'd be something actually art related and try to clarify and offer a different suggestion just in case? Can't blame a girl for trying.
But yes, to each their own for sure since I'd be more interested in seeing nice j-fashion art than I would interviews of some random girl in - let's say - Wisconsin.

[Anonymous No.10715687]

>>10715364
I care what Jane thinks is relevant for non-Japanese wearers. I'd also like to read about a nice tea party a comm had...

Just like I read a nice story once about a local group that dresses in Victorian clothing, not lolita, and attends a local tea house with regularity. Many people like to read interviews about this sort of thing.

[Anonymous No.10715688]

>>10715680
But j-fashion art isn't even j-fashion. If I want to read about j-fashion, I want to look at pictures of people wearing it, stores selling it, and ways to wear it.

I don't want to look at a bunch of pictures of people drawing outfits that don't exist in real life. Obviously, I love art related to the styles, but the art itself is not 'j-fashion'.

We're talking about clothing people actually wear.

[Anonymous No.10715690]

>>10715680
Art isn't j-fashion. If I get a zine about j-fashion, I want to see a girl in Wisconsin wearing it.

I don't want to see art of an imaginary outfit that doesn't exist in real life & often times isn't feasible. I want to see the unfeasible in feasible form.

I love art, and related art to j-fashion, but a cartoon drawing is not j-fashion on its own.

[Anonymous No.10715692]

>>10715680
>nice j-fashion art than I would interviews of some random girl in - let's say - Wisconsin.
And I highlight your statement there to drive home what I'm saying...

She's talking about a zine for clothing people wear in real life. Not what a cartoon character wears. Real life clothing.

An art zine wouldn't be a j-fashion publication, it'd just be art inspired by the fact. We're talking about real life clothing, and that just wouldn't work.

[Anonymous No.10715695]

>>10715680
I'd rather see pictures and interviews of a girl from bumfuck nowhere that actually wears the fashion than shoddy art from some random lolita at heart.

[Anonymous No.10715707]

>>10715690
Again, when I saw her post asking for art and coords in the drawthread, I figured it was an art zine (more than likely involving the outfits sent in). Kind of hard to think it wouldn't be when you ask in that area but I digress.
And I didn't mean actual fanart; my comment was just clarifying what type of zine i figured op meant and the pic and link from my og comment was also to explain the type of art-driven zine I had thought op might've meant. Looking back I can see how my og comment may have come across as that, but its not what I meant at all.
>>10715692
See the above comment too. I wasn't thinking of some anime girl from some seasonal anime's wardrobe but more like art of whatever was sent in that matched the theme (overall lolita, gal style, ect) vs just random interviews from a random girl. And just in case you turn this around and say "why would you want to draw some random girl then?", the answer to that is that its more fun (personally).

None of you have to agree and that's fine; I see I was mistaken but I did want to explain how I got to my conclusion and see if possibly anon was aiming more towards that. Anyways, I'll say nothing more on the matter.

[Anonymous No.10715758]

>>10714878
The “one style per zine” will limit you too much. There isn’t much to say about most of those and you will end up having to fill your zine with irrelevant information for it to have any volume at all.

It would be cool for every edition to have a section, say four to six pages, dedicated to a specific style though, it doesn’t need to be the whole volume. Keep the history and explanation brief, people who are invested enough already know the information and people who are only curious will be bored with long descriptions. Most of this special section should be spent with coords pics with maybe little text boxes highlighting some aspects of the style that are being shown on those pics and people’s ig. I like the idea of interviewing well dressed common people and having one or two pages with pictures of them and their perspective on the style.

The art idea is nice, it could fill some pages and share nice artists doing jfashion related art. Some people won’t like it, but they will be able to enjoy the rest of the zine content. Just please, do some quality control, don’t let shitty art into your zine.

The rest of the zine could be filled up with whatever jfashion topic you feel like talking about at the moment, this will give you freedom and make it more fun for you. Some ideas:

Brand releases commentary
New trends commentary
Covering big meetings
Sewing tutorials
Cute recipes
Cute diy decoration tutorials
Cute meetings ideas
New indie brands
News in general (is there a brand closing it’s doors? Is there a brand reopening? Is there a new lolita documentary? Is there a new youtube channel worth mentioning?)

[Anonymous No.10716554]

I like the idea but... this art is really bad anon...

[Anonymous No.10719790]

>>10716554
It's not OP's art. See
>>10714778

[Anonymous No.10719795]

>>10715707
>I wasn't thinking of some anime girl from some seasonal anime's wardrobe...

Well, I didn't think you were, but that'd just be a compilation. I feel there's a better word for that when you have a collection of art around a central theme. Either way, that'd be an artist's book.

It'd be fun, but if I wanted to read about j-fashion, it wouldn't be something I'd read.

[Anonymous No.10719798]

>>10715758
If they did it bi-monthly and circulated through the styles yearly, there'd be more than enough information. (How many threads pass through /cgl/ yearly?)

Lolita, v-kei, 'harajuku umbrella' or maybe just 'street style' (decora & all those miscellaneous styles like Shironuri), gyaru, girly style, yami styles, yume styles.

It would totally be doable. There's a lot of information out there & if there were a translator involved?

Hell, you likely could do one theme every month and have enough material for articles to flesh out the zine alongside Western wearer spotlights.

[Anonymous No.10719839]

>>10719790
Who cares? They still used shitty art to start a thread on making a zine.

>>10714778
>i didn't want to grab old FRUITS street snaps or whatever because well those are people who didn't consent (and technically another publication's work)
The irony of this....taking someone else's artwork off the net is the same thing anon.

[Anonymous No.10726023]

>>10714491
very good idea thanks anon!

[Anonymous No.10730420]

So how's it going.

[Anonymous No.10733326]

>>10715692
I think it could work sort of like GosuRori, but in reverse. You could have art pieces of the coord as a main focus of the page, with the actual coord either on the same page, but way smaller, or every coord in the zine side by side at the end, street snap style.