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We haven't had this thread in a while. Previous thread: >>10299697
It seems like there was actually quite a bit of talk about lolita on Twitter, so I went in and took some screenshots. Enjoy.
>>10435597>>10435598Why are you censoring the eyes of their profile pictures?
>>10435601Why don’t people understand that lolita is generally a fashion worn by adult women? >Think of the poor TEENAGERSShut the fuck up, we’re women in our twenties and thirties plus. They can wait.
>>10435600to protect their identitieswe take privacy very seriously here on /cgl/
>>10435609Ik, but why not just censor the entire pfp?
>>10435612>the last tweet replyWhy is that oh no, isn’t that what we want?
>>10435612Are these posts made by kids? They're a fucking headache to read
>>10435642Absolutely, they're all teens.
>>10435599Imagine thinking outfits that do not fit the aesthetic of lolita is classistFuck off normies
>>10435651>>10435599>trying to explain lolita to twitter teens and usersA moment of silence for the lolitas trying to educate them
If these are the youngsters getting into the fashion, it explains the quality of posts in Rufflechat and other FB groups in recent times
All I'm seeing is more future ita to enjoy.
>>10435652I bought a plastic tub at the dollar store and I identify as a yacht owner so it’s classist of you to say this tub isn’t a yacht I mean both float in water?? so yeah?? think of the teenagers!
Does anyone have screenshots of the replies/quote rts to the "white women turned lolita into pedobait" tweet. Apparently people were agreeing with them but it's been deleted and they went private.
>>10435610Censoring a public tweet is futile anyway, you can find the posts by the text alone.
>>10435715Last I saw it was at 15k likes. Drives me up the fucking wall that someone with literally no knowledge of the fashion who isn't even Japanese is coming in and dictating that the ~whye wymyn~ are ruining it
>>10435982it's really annoying how someone with enough reach can use the internet to just spread misinformation like that.
I swear I'm getting too salty for this community. How the fuck are people this stupid?From the lolita pet peeves thread.Some clothes will depreciate. Some won't. Some will always be worth more because they are coveted and rare. CTP was originally worth so much more because only a few people were even able to get it as a tea party MTO. Even with the rerelease, no one is going you sell you a $450 retail dress for $100. Lolita does not have to be "accessible" to everyone and I wish these people would just leave.
>>10436082Its kind of ridiculous when someone sells an obviously used dress with sweat stains for like 600 dollars though, like come on. And it does happen often enough to bring it up.
>>10436085Sure it’s ridiculous, but no one has a gun to their head being forced to buy those listings. Sellers can do whatever they want, and if buyers don’t think it’s worth the price then they shouldn’t buy it.
>>10436089It's annoying when people overpriced shit that isn't worth that price, lmao why is that stupid to have that as a pet peeve? Lolita is a luxury fashion but not everyone wants to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars for something that isn't worth it and they're allowed to be annoyed by the people who overprice it.
>>10436091Careful, stress gives you wrinkles and wrinkles aren’t kawaii
>>10436085Sorry for deleting the original post. I realized I didn't block out a name. New one is >>10436084But they weren't even complaining about those sellers. They are just complaining in general about anyone selling a dress for higher than retail. And then they bring up CTP, obviously knowing nothing about its history. It makes them look really dumb. They've probably been in the fashion for a whole 2 seconds.
>>10436093Yeah I get what you mean. I think its because everyone tells newbs that they can get brand for 100 dollars or under, but nobody really specifies that the brand you can get at that price is probably not going to be in any prints you really want. I was under that impression for a bit.
>>10436096I got one of my AP DDs + KC for like 80 USD, but it sticks out in my mind as one of the best deals I've ever gotten.
>>10436096I agree with that, and I kind of hate the people telling newbies that they can get AP for $50 too. Because you're right, and the dresses you can get for that little are just the leftovers that no one wants. If it does happen to be good, it's grabbed quickly. It's misleading, and I don't know why people think they are helping when they just lie.
>>10436098I'm envious of you. It seems like that deals like that were far easier to come by 2 or 3 years ago but nowadays you're most likely going to wait years to find a deal like that
>>10436098which dress, out of curiosity
>>10435601gotta love the slut at the bottom screaming WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN. probably the type who tells teen girls that being a prostitute is empowering.
Is it just me or is this a really weird flex? What
>>10436327I hope she didn't get injured with that much of a stretch
>>10436327wtf is this
>>10436332She posted a 3-post collage of all of her outfits, this is the caption on the third.
>>10436327>in 6 months I wore 55 lolita outfitsI stopped reading. You count your outfits?
>>10436341Most lolitas I've seen are obsessed enough that they do this.
>>10436327Just saw this on my feed, its feels such poor taste to flex lolita and talk about blm in one post.
>>10436355what's in poor taste is "humbling" herself to virtue signal for asspats at all.
>>10436327who is this????
>>10436327Idgaf about the sjw part, tldr, but 55 coordinates in 6 MONTHS isn't even that many. What a pathetic number to flex about.
>>10436327I support BLM but this is some performative woke bullshit. Get a grip.
>>10436327What is she even trying to say??>i wore 50 outfits in 180>pretends to be humble>namedrops a bunch of dead black people>ends with "yo maaaaan every coord is just like, you know, being a different person, and people are deep. aren't i deep? plz like."
>>10436467How ironic, since BLM is performative woke bullshit
>>10436327She actually posted two different posts with context and data from where she lives before posting this one.I still find it a weird, though.
>>10436327All of my what. If she really wants to be woke, why doesn't she sell her dresses and donate the money to BLM or adjacent nonprofits?
>>10436327>on shit these dead people could have done things if they weren't deadThis sounds like someone who's only just realised that black people are in fact people
>>10435608by then the fashion will be dead LOL
>>10436883Boohoo sucks you won't be able to enjoy it before then
>>10436327Holy shit this is so tone deaf
>>10436474Not for everyone stupid
Anyone in the Toronto Gal scene know if the circle is ever coming off hiatus? Just got back to town and saw their tweet, got back into gal during lockdown.
>>10435588Man this pic is comfy, almost makes me wanna get some old 2006-2009 dresses and start wearing lolita again.
>>10435599>ummmm lolita is classist!!!!I want to turn back to the good old days of 2012 when this wasn't a thing
>>10435601>slut in lace suit>UHMMM TEENS??? NEED?? LOLITA FASHUN??? BUT THEY'RE POOR??? YOU PIGHell world
>>10435612why do they type like this
>>10436098Same, I got a Toy parade set for about that much because of damage I was never able to find.>>10436096If you wait around like a hungry hippo on LaceMarket good prints go for cheap too. People scoop them up very quickly.
>>10435599>poorfag only fans thot trying to tell you about classism
>>10436107Candy Sprinkle in pink, it was supposedly heavily damaged but it just needed a wash
>>10435599>>10437603Worse than that. The "not lolita" section looks to have decora/fairy kei, morigirl, and vkei. If that translates to Nile Perch, Favorite Onepiece, and if the vkei is using Qutie Frash, h.Naoto or Ozz On, the prices are still roughly ~20k yen per main piece. Novelty print tights/socks (menhera, decora) still run ~4k yen per pair, and yumekawaii accessories can get right up there with AP's plastic jewellery pricing (the in-demand artists like Caramel Ribbon can charge 5-digit-yen figures and still remain sold out)So both left and right sides are actually equally expensive. I don't know what she's smoking that she concludes anything "non-lolita = cheaper"
Can someone point me in the direction of a south preferribly south west Florida comm? Everything I've found is unactive or just not "alive" am i blind?
>>10438236I don't get how this is supposed to be normies making dumb hot takes regarding Lolita fashion. I guess stans are weird, but it's just art of some Kpop guy wearing lolita
>>10439856>art of some Kpop guy wearing lolitaThat in itself is disturbing. I feel so bad for Asian men that they continue to get feminized and emasculated even in this day and age.
Is it common for lolitas to get upset with others in their comm for not being ‘dressed up’ enough? I don’t mean itas or people who show up to meets in outfits that aren’t even lolita, but lolitas who only wear basic coords. Apparently it really bothers some people in my comm that some lolitas don’t go the full mile with wigs and false lashes for zoom meetups, and now they’ve moved on to complaining about girls who attend comm events in basic coords. They’re saying it’s lazy and rude to the guests and other attendees who put in more effort.
>>10440062>full mile with wigs and false lasheswhy do they think this is part of "the full mile"? lots of people do OTT even without using either... as long as someone is wearing lolita who cares? there's an expectation to be a more dressy for tea parties sure but zoom meets aren't tea parties lol
Did I pick a bad time to finally buy lolita dresses? The fuck is this bullshit about comparing lolita fashion to shota and sexulization?
>>10440081It always a bad time if you look at people screeching about lolita being sexualization. But yeah, with corona and stuff you really picked a bad time to start.
>>10440062I think you can always find someone in a group annoyed by stuff like this, but I would also say most people don't feel this way. I think in general the community seems to be cooling on wigs.Don't worry about a vocal few who it bothers. As long as you are wearing proper lolita you are probably fine. Maybe if you are wearing really distressed punk at a fancy restaurant or something you are pushing it.
>>10438235>channers send death threats over videogame titsIn a world where the rain rises towards the clouds and the japanese nuked Pearl Harbor.
>>10438236this is cute
>>10438258South florida lolita community is active normally. it just isnt at the current moment with the state of corona in fl
So is paying for Lors patreon even worth it? I see she has a series up that isn't going to be available on her youtube that might be worth discussing.
>>10440062My comm has this kind of the other way around.
>>10435601Who's the almost naked whore bucked obsessed with thinking about the chilrun?
>>10436327>wore sundry lolita outfits>dead black people woulda dun more!>covid-19 comes in sweet, goth, and classic!What? Are we supposed to think less of Breonna Taylor if she'd been shot while dressed in lolita? What is the message here?
>>10436459Yeah that's like 2-3 coords a week. I do that as long as I'm feeling well. When I'm sick, still 4 times a month at least
>>10439856It looks like it is the same person bitching about us dumb cunt “lolita fashions fans” upset with the misinformation spreading tweet when they turn around and do this.
>>10440063They say that coords look unfinished unless you're wearing those things. A few girls even insist that you always need shapewear, even corsets for the fashion to look right even if you're below the max measurements. I don't see why because despite being inspired by historical fashions, lolita clothes are modern clothes that afaik aren't designed with corsets in mind.>>10440129That's good to hear. I always make sure to wear full coords, styled hair and some makeup to meetups but most of my main pieces are rather simple and there's only so much I can do to dress them up.>I think in general the community seems to be cooling on wigs.The majority of my comm wears wigs. I'm one of a handful that doesn't. I was actually kind of surprised to see so many girls still putting on wigs, lashes, circle lenses, hoop skirts etc for a zoom meetup. I understand that I must look comparatively basic but I wasn't sure if it was a real faux pas or not.>>10440588Maybe we should switch comms haha
>New com admin hates meWhat should I do
>>10444366Really? Where is your comm that they are still big on wigs? (I understand if you don't want to be specific, but like US/Europe?)For Zoom meets I have had people show up not even wearing lolita, but it doesn't bother me much since they tend to be more casual get togethers.
>>10444487Take the lead.
>>10444535How? I don't even know why she hates me... she never likes my pictures or when I post what I buy.
>>10444566Well, first you're going to have to find a sword.
>>10444566...is that why you think she doesn't like you? That seems super mild.
>>10435651>>10435642Unfortunately saw a 29 year old argue that western lolitas weren't trying hard enough to force japanese lolitas to change the name so... no. The "classist" person upthread was probably 30 iirc
>>10435715someone who is partners with a popular youtuber had caps on her animal crossing twitter. too lazy to go bring them here, but there you go.
>>10440293For just the vides? No really. She had one video with some details on drama I was always interested in, but the rest are kinda meh. Obviously if you want to support her than go for it, but I wouldn't do it for juicy gossip or whatever.
How many finished coords did you all have before joining your first comm?
>>10445517One, but with multiple other pieces on the way.
>>10445517One, I wanted to join earlier but you had to send in a coord first. Which sucked a little as this was before Facebook, so you had to be in the community if you wanted to have access to the local secondhand market. It would have made buying my first coord much easier if I had been in the community, because my mother was so skeptical about everything at the time.
>>10445517One. I wasn't sure if I'd be comfortable wearing it, either by myself or alone. My comm helped me deal with getting attention
>>10444533Europe. For casual meets a lot of people still wear wigs, and for bigger events nearly everyone does. I can only think of a handful of people who consistently use their own hair.
>>10445517I had maybe.... about 4 main pieces when I first met my local comm and started going to meets? It's weird to think of my wardrobe in terms of a number of full "coordinates" because back then the advice I got was to pick a color scheme and build my wardrobe by buying items that all went with that. So I had maybe 4 main pieces plus blouses, shoes, etc, but could make more than 4 coords with all that.
>>10444566Maybe you either have shitty coords or you buy ugly non Lolita stuff
sorry for the spoonfeed but does anyone know of online coms specifically for lonelitas? preferably on discord, i want to actually be able to talk to people about the fashion and share pics but living in ar means i’m all by myself when it comes to a local community.
>>10445603Wanting to know the same
>>10445603Why does it need to be specifically lonelitas? There's plenty of general lolita discords.
>>10445610Not the original anon asking, just an interested one, but personally it's because there will most likely be a lot of meetups between usual comms and being a lonelita, you feel left out and missing out on a community get together. They'll all come back talking about what a great time they had and you're just left in the dust. If we're all or mostly lonelitas, it's less likely to happen.
>>10445610Original anon, I specified because so many are location based and plan meetups together like >>10445612 said, I feel like we get left out a lot of times when that happens. I wouldn’t mind joining a general Lolita discord either though, if you have some suggestions.
>>10438235>cisAre they even aware we do have trannies and gender nonconforming moids in here?Also nice internalized mysoginy she got. Cis women are the only real women and that's why we're hated
>>10436467You know they spend their donation money on bailing criminals out of jail, right?
>>10436474This. Wtf have they done to actually have an effect on police reform? If anything, they've made cops more racist and scared decent people away from the force with how much they heckle and demonize cops, who are just trying to do their jobs. And also, Floyd bead up a pregnant black woman, but no one cares about black women's lives, only black men.
>>10438235I like how they add the word "cis" to mask their misogyny and still sound woke lmao
>>10445603I’d like something like this, but I do have a local Comm I just don’t go to meetups
>>10445603Let's start a live journal or a discord
>>10445746To be fair, because of all the protests and riots, several cities have updated, removed and changed laws. One state banned the knee press move, another banned no-knock warrants in the city Breonna got shot in, and another city's police force now no longer responds to certain calls and instead, the calls are directed to proper people to help. As much as riots suck, it IS making a change because all the peaceful protests that have been going on before have been ignored.
>>10445766>>10445767I'm glad other people are supportive of it! I don't really have any experience personally with creating a discord group but perhaps I'll look into it if there isn't one already in existence.
>>10445770Enjoy getting raped dude, cops can't help you now that you voted to slash their funding
>>10445818That's what guns are for. Besides the bail money is used on people who got put in jail for unfair reasons or small crimes which is what black people get put in jail the most for. Hell, I almost had a warrent for my arrest for keeping a library book too long years ago. No one is bailing out rapists.
>>10445773That all sounds like shit that will make us less safe in the long run. For every innocent person who's in the wrong place at the wrong time, there's about a million more who are dangerous, drug peddling scum. You sound very sheltered, you're only taking away the ability of the cops to detain dangerous people. We're gonna be seeing a lot more police deaths. Liberals will cheer until all the crime shows up at their doorstep
>>10445827How do you know they aren't bailing out rapists? They're bailing out black people indiscriminately based on them being black and nothing else. And any dipshit can get their hands on a gun, it doesn't make you safe.
>>10445818cops are more likely to show up 4 hours later and tell you to file a report, store your rape kit in a warehouse with thousands of other women's and not investigate>and shoot your dog for good measure
>>10445839Not really. Cops have been pretty bad at their job of catching criminals to the point where the ones they do catch is just a drop in the bucket compared to what's all out there. The amount of police attacking, arresting and killing innocent people is more often than you think. My parents were military and police and have told me all the fucked up shit the cops have done and gotten away with while working there. Ranging from protecting the town's popular sports players that have had had sex with with minors, purposely pulling over minorities more than whites, and trying to scare off female cops by making them respond to only dying or dead calls to freak them out and get them to quit. Not to mention rivalries with other police stations, money passing through hands under the table from local politicians to go after opponents, and not doing background checks of cops that have been fired from other counties. Shit is more fucked up than you realize my dude.
>>10445877>trying to scare off female cops by making them respond to only dying or dead callsthey probably just don't want to take those calls themselves because they can't shoot a civillian who is already dead
>>10445877>My white, conservative, blue collar father refers to any cop as "Sheriff Shoot-em-up" and "Barney Fife"> Gets mad as hell when cops just get away their bullshitDon't know why people think "fuck police" is a new take.>>10440062This sounds like they just want to complain. Demanding everyone go OTT all the time is how people get burnt out and never learn to casual lolita.
>>10445818Cops don’t do shit. We had some Meath head running around on our roof at 3am, called the cops and they never fucking came. After 2 hours and multiple calls, they finally jumped off the roof and ran away, and we were finally able to go to sleep, but cops don’t do shit. Sage because idk why this is even an argument in this thread.
>>10446169And how would defending the police solve that problem? They probably didn't have enough people. They have a very dangerous job and young people are taught to hate them
>>10446493That would mean more money for social services which is actually a better solution for anons problem.
>>10446493Police are called to take care of stupid shit that they don't need to and are spread thin. Direct those calls to other places that would actually help so the police can focus on what they are supposed to take care of. That's part of what police reform is. The defunding part comes into things like why the fuck are the cops able to buy military grade weapons and vehicles. If some shit goes down, that's for the national guard and military to be called in to handle. Instead put funding toward every cop needing to have bodycams. Young people are not taught to hate cops, quite the opposite. There's so much pro-cop shit in schools and children's programming that they grow up loving them. What actually happens is the young folks actually getting involved with police when they are older and seeing how they are not your friend and are quick to take you down for the smallest thing depending on where and what you are.
>>10446506Or you could put more money towards social services through taxes. Why do you think it is that they can't respond to every call they get? Could it be because they're underfunded and understaffed enough as is?
>>10445818>implying that cops and rapists aren't the same people
>>10446169>Cops currently don't anything>Let's get rid of them, crime won't increase at all
>>10438237>latex lolitaOpinion discarded
>>10438237I miss the days when we could just call out perverts, ya know? So obvious this person is a fucking pervert
Did anyone catch this in RCU? The thread was gone before I could read the rest and the replies. IIRC it's against the rules to delete threads
>>10457674Kek wow this is so stupid. Most lolitas of any ethnicity end up getting married and having kids eventually. It's weird that she's trying to throw shade on Chinese girls for that of all things.
>>10457674She got called out for the dumb thread and closed replies
>>10457674Stay mad that nobody finds you attractive enough to date
>>10457674What is she even trying to say here?
>>10457694that real lolitas are either lesbians or only date femboys, and heterosexual lolitas who date masculine men are all antifeminist tradwives
>>10457674I wish somebody would nuke the west at this pointI'm so sick of this shit and also this reeks of insecurity like nothing else
>>10457674Tradwives??? IN MY COMM????!!!!!Yes honey, not every lolita identifies with 8 different genders depending on the time of the day it is. Some of us just want a normal life and to wear frilly clothes sometimes, the political affiliation you're trying to assign to lolita doesn't exist.
>>10457699Well that's just dumb. I hate that people forget that feminism is about having the freedom of choice.
>>10457674china barely even has traditionally masculine men by western standards.
>>10457707Only the freedom to be ugly, fat, and lesbian. Anything else and you're perpetuating the pAtRIarChY
>>10457709Right? Imagine thinking scrawny Asian men are the pinnacle of masculinity, especially in a country where women basically hold all the power currently due to the gender imbalance.
>>10457674>"Tradwife lolitas" = lolitas in straight relationships with masculine dudes
>>10457718>especially in a country where women basically hold all the power currently due to the gender imbalance.You'd think that right? But China is still somehow disgustingly misogynistic and families still favour boys.
>>10457674Missed the part about capitalism
This guy has been posting in my comm's Facebook page and I'm getting major sissy vibes
>>10457748>realylol lolita having any connection to feminism was a fucking mistake Of course its not meant to fight capitalism, it's a hobby that is consumerist in nature, I truly believe that at least half of these "anticapitalists" wouldn't even know how to explain what capitalism is if you asked them, for them it's just a scapegoat for everything bad in the world.Jesus christ, just, what an absolute moron.
>>10457753I'm laughing so hard
>>10436327I don't understand this need to talk about social issues every picture of this poster wearing lolita dresses. It feels like a poorly veiled attempt at boosting engagement for their outfit photos under the guise of caring about black people. If they want to support BLM, can't they do it in a way that isn't disingenuous like this? I know exactly who this is and it feels really off seeing them post photos of themselves in ordinary coord shots for likes coupled with descriptions like these. It becomes even weirder when people in the comments compliment the coords and ignore the caption. Just overall very attention seeking and fake
>>10457748Pic related, lolita edition
>>10457748damn did she forget about "no ethical consumption under capitalism"
>>10457784Most people complaining about capitalism aren't starving peasants or even working class, they're literally spoiled children.
>>10457747Oh, I meant just in the dating world. Chinese women have astronomical standards for men before they will even consider dating them, especially income-wise.
>>10457757The thing is, it's connected to Japanese feminism, which is nothing like American feminism. That's where the disconnect in comprehension is here.
>>10457834this. and once they start making more money they turn up their noses at communist or socialism or whatever it is.
>>10457846exactly. japanese feminism in 1990s was barely anything more than "please arrest people for groping me on the train." it's barely more now. i think the idea of being so sickeningly feminine and creepy that men with think you're gross is amazing, but let's be honest, it's not that deep.
>>10457864Most of the ones I know have plenty of money from their family. They're just lazy and don't want to work, and think communism means free money and they still don't have to do anything.
I don’t like that people are inserting so much politics into the fashion. It honestly makes me feel awkward since I’m not all that left leaning. It’s like I can’t be apart of the fashion without being uber political too.
>>10457911Yes same, but let's be honest, it's the same thing in every online spaces now
>>10436883by then the planet will be dead and you'll have never moved away from your parents LOL
>>10457911I feel you, it's gotten really bad online. It's just this immense American influence that I find strange people outside North America go along with. I'm glad my local (European) comm is fine.
>>10457834Yeah this is me to be honest, but that's why I'm not vocal about my politics online, and especially not in Lolita fashion spaces. I post my coords publicly and read theory privately. I also don't think idpol is useful or helpful (weak liberal class analysis that actually uphold the status quo). What help is organising a witchunt online for someone who does wrongthink? Better to spend time making a material difference to the lives of those less well off than virtue signalling on instagram while you still spend a few hundred a month on a luxury fashion.
>>10457834What does working class means to you?Most lolitas are middle class and their families don’t own the means of production, that means they won’t have a way to survive unless they work, this is being part of the working class even if you may be on the most privileged end of it, which lolitas usually are.
>>10457968Depends on country I guess. In the UK, you have the working class, the middle class (which can be split into the lower middle class and upper middle class), and upper class.
>>10457834I've seen the complete opposite. Those complaining about capitilism are the ones that can't afford to pay bills or are just barely making it and the ones that are well off see no problem with it.
>>10457834The comic is implying the poster is the guy in the well, berating lolitas who may feel their fashion is helping women in it to feel empowered for participating in something that may or may not cause problems in other areas ( like literally everything else in the world). Sorry I didn't make that clear enough, but you are 100% right about the spoiled child thing.
>>10457753I may be mistaken but I think I came across this guys tiktok and its majorly creepy
>>10457968It means something different than your fucked up definition for sure. So someone who gets a monthly living allowance from their lawyer parents is "working class" because their parents don't "own the means of production"? Do you even know what you're saying at all or just spitting out vaguely Marxist catchphrases?
>>10457754>captain morgan bottle littering the floorclassy as fuck y'all.
>>10457996I know what I’m saying, your definition is wrong. Even if someone is privileged enough to live by their parents allowance, by definition, they are the working class. If their parents loose their jobs they won’t survive under capitalism. Some people may call them petty-bourgeois if you like the term better than working class. At the end they are still explored by the real bougeois even if they don’t face the same struggles as the poor. If you don’t think that’s enough to critique capitalism then sure, lolitas shouldn’t be critiquing capitalism.>>10457972Those are two different definitions. There’s the marxist division of class and there’s this other definition that’s more common in your country and also in mine. The marxist one is about class struggle, the other one ends up being just about how much you earn.
>>10458060you're so incorrect about this. please stop embarrassing yourself.
>>10458060god you sound like my rich friends who claim they are poor and working class but get thousands of dollars helicoptered to them from their parents during “emergencies”
>>10458066What they're saying is Marxism 101. It's not that hard to understand.
>>10458066That’s the definition, I’m sorry>>10458070She is definitely not poor, maybe she is working class. The thing is those things are not necessarily the same.
>>10458079>>10458066You're completely missing the fact that "working class" relies mainly on the role of the worker. Are you seriously trying to argue that a lawyer is in a subordinate working role?
>>10458060>>10457968Working class does not mean they "have to work". It refers explicitly to the subordinate class of workers ie. blue collar, some white collar anything historically considered woman's work. By your weird definition farmers, who are definitely working class, would be considered outside of the working class since they own the "means of production".I'm done arguing this since you clearly got your definitions off of some antifa 101 type site.
>>10458079Bad news kid, if you’re parents can and do pay your rent you don’t get to claim solidarity with the working class. That’s how It works.
>>10458110Typical leftist tactic, just redefine things and then argue with people they're wrong when they don't like your new made up definition.
>>10458060>There are two definitions, one that literally everybody uses and a niche one that only Marxist theorists use>Obviously the niche one is correct, how come people don't immediately understand I'm right when I use it?
>>10458122Or how about you open a fucking book and properly understand what working class actually means?
>>10458070Basically my same experience with communists. They like to LARP like they are poor and hardworking but they all have rich parents supporting their lifestyle once you pry a bit
work·ing class/ˈwərkiNG ˈˌklas/nounthe social group consisting of people who are employed for wages, especially in manual or industrial work.
>>10458124she's not even using the marxist definition correct by it's own definition.
>>10458110Yeah, I won’t go deep in marxist theory on a lolita board and tried to simplify it, my bad I guess?At the end, the only thing I’m trying to say is that unless the lolita in question owns or come from a family who owns a big company or something like that, it isn’t inconsistent of them to be against capitalism, even if they are not poor.
>>10458125How about you go fuck yourself? I'm sick of playing this shit game with leftists.>The definition of racism everyone uses is wrong, some lady in the 70s said so>The definition of gender everyone uses is wrong, some guy in the 70s said so>Everyone else is wrong and I'm right!>Read a book! What do you mean that book says I'm wrong? Clearly not the right book, but no I won't tell you which one to read
>>10458128honestly this. i was extremely poor growing up and communists are all lazy brats who never had to work growing up or go without. all of them want communism because they think it will allow them to just get a job and income without having to apply themselves. and it's "fair" to them because they only consider that rich men will have their wealth distributed, but don't consider the fact that it also distributes everyone else's wealth and locks us all into an anti-consumer nightmare.
>>10458140I think you simplified it incorrectly, that's my issue. My other issue with what you are saying now is, no, you cannot participate in conspicuous consumption and assert you are against capitalism.
>>10458142Funny thing about language and definitions. They change over time. Why do you assume that the anon is leftist?
>>10458150>Yet you participate in society. Curious!
>>10458174conspicuous consumption is a choice that promotes capitalism, one does not need to do so. why not instead be minimalist.
>>10458179Holding people accountable for their choices is a microaggression
>>10458179No horse in this race but there also may be some major discrepancies based on country of poster. What Europeans or even Canadians call communism is very different from the bulk of Americans who say they hate capitalism when all they are asking for is a decent healthcare system and a mail system that doesn’t look like Russia. I can still buy lolita and want a nationalized healthcare system like a normal country
>>10458187I mean, I totally agree that many people who say they want communism don't know what they're talking about, but that doesn't really make it better..
>>10458187This too. A lot of people outside of America have no idea how bad everything here is, as well. It's kind of understandable that people might grow to hate capitalism when it's baked into every single aspect of American life. Buying some pretty dresses with paltry savings from a retail job doesn't make you some kind of hypocrite for saying people should have healthcare and billionaires shouldn't hoard the vast majority of wealth in the country. Most people who self-id as socialists here aren't wearing ushankas and toting around Kalashnikovs.
>>10458191I don’t really expect people to have expert knowledge of economic systems. Frankly, call me jaded but I doubt you know your shit as well you act like you do. It’s better to figure out what people are ACTUALLY asking for than split hairs about terms.unless you want to break out the white papers and make this a party
>>10458194I expect people to at least have basic knowledge of the things they claim are ruining everything and need to change immediately, yes.
>>10458202>I expect people to at least have basic knowledgeThere's your problem
>>10457753>>10457754>Prominently featured Captain Morgan bottleI like his style, can we keep him?
>>10457753If he's doing this as a joke, I wouldn't mind hanging out with this dude. If he's trying to be serious I'd avoid like the plauge
>>10458206I know anon, I'm a mess
>>10458202I mean if you want people to give a cookie for remembering what you learned in civics class then here you go. This is your acknowledgement that you have a minimum level of intelligence. Most people don't. You've done it. You've achieved mediocrity.
>>10458110>anything historically considered woman's workso nurses are working class now? those bitches start at 80k and go up to well past 6 figures, that ain't working class
>>10458231Bruh I'm literally just saying people should know basics of what they're talking about. I don't know how that's a problem for you but here we are.
>>10458239I'm not even part of this conversation but how is a nurse not working class? My family consists of mostly nurses and other medical personnel and while some get paid well, they work like dogs, especially now more than ever. Most get paid around 50k a year.
>>10458292where the fuck do you live that doctors and nurses make 50k? some third world country?
>>10458300Nayrt but doctors are wayyyy different than nurses and what anon was saying sounds like it could be the US so...yeah, kind of a third world country in some ways.
>>10458300The U.S. My 3 aunts, a great aunt, and one of my first cousins are all nurses. They make about 25 an hour but working overtime constantly because...you know. People are dying and shit.
>>10458304nayrt but like where? I'm an RN working on the west coast and make $80 an hour
>>10458304wtf?? they are way underpaid compared to most places
>>10458306Texas, but here this should help.https://nurse.org/articles/highest-paying-states-for-registered-nurses/Note that these are averages of a whole state, individual cities will also vary within the same state.
>>10457993I found it. He has other strange videos up as well https://www.tiktok.com/@therealdrlove_88/video/6849445267083644166>>10458210no thank you, he seems creepy af.
>>10458321Tiktok was a mistakeI cringe everytime I see someone posting their TikTok to COF
>>10458289>>10458289This is what happens when idiots are given the incentive to reproduce the way they are in first world countries. Can't have the dumdums feeling left out by expecting them to have basic knowledge of a system they claim is evil and ruining everything. We don't let morons diagnose people with illnesses so im not sure why we allow them to diagnose what's wrong with society as a whole.
>>10458321i really can't tell if this is a sissy or just a dude trying too hard to be funny
>>10458339I mean, definitely check out his other videos. He feels creepy as fuck to me. I hope original comm-anon can see these and at minimum keep an eye on him. https://www.tiktok.com/@therealdrlove_88/video/6859448705305562373https://www.tiktok.com/@therealdrlove_88/video/6858846842982042886
>>10458239That’s the problem, y’all think that working class is about how much you are paid and not about your working force being exploited
>>10458404if you get paid 6 figures, i don't think much could be considered exploitative at that point. true exploitation is like teachers, who work like dogs even outside of their assigned hours and get paid absolute shit in return.
>>10458426do you know any nurses?
>>10458426Working class= helpless poor people Evil bourgeoisie = anyone making more money than you
>>10458428quite a few, including my housemate.
>>10458426Jesus you're ignorant. Did you fail to pay attention to what nurses had to deal with at the beginning of the corona outbreak?
>>10458435>being on call almost 24/7>12 hour or more days>being spread way too thin because hospitals are too fucking cheap>not being exploited hmmm
>>10458438the first two don't apply to any nurses i know, and your third point is well worth 6 figs imo.
>>10458435I'm guessing you're salty because you got some shitty liberal arts degree that doesn't pay shit so you think nurses are just rich bitches with a piece of cake job. Lol. Communists are wild.
>>10458440Nurses don't make six figures...
>>10458440not getting proper PPE and getting fired for wearing your own mask isn't exploitation. OK commie.
>>10458442in my state, starting pay is 80k and increases to 150k over time. try again.>>10458437boo hoo, they had a hard time for a little while. they still got their piles of money for their while. how about the people who slave away all day, every day and get paid shit?
>>10458440Are you thinking of nurse practioners? You really need to shut the fuck up and stay in your lane since it's very clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>10458445Those are NPs idiot. They need atleast 2 years more school and have way more responsibility. Imagine thinking someone who makes 80k needs a roommate.
>>10458445Sorry but saving lives, healing people, and working in extremely close proximity with dangerous diseases isn't the same as flipping burgers and they don't deserve the same pay. Sorry you wasted money and time on a useless degree, not nurses' fault and you're not entitled to the same pay.
>>10458446nope, registered nurses. not everyone lives in shit states. they get paid 6 figs here.
>>10458452 The cost of living is probably high, if they're making that much pay then why would they choose to live with such a envious and salty cunt like yourself?
>>10458451considering the equivalence i brought up was teachers, which is also one of the most important parts of society, your point is not applicable.
>>10458452no they do not there's a list upthread, larper.
>>10458445> I made shitty career choices but I still think I need to get paid as much as people who didn't!What makes people like you feel so entitled?
>>10458442That’s not totally accurate. My sister in law makes six figures. My ex’s mom made about $75/hr as a nurse. There are a handful who, depending on their length of employment and role, easily clear six figures but I think it’s very uncommon.
>>10458460There are expections but acting like nurses are just sitting on piles of money is just retarded
>>10458460Well, we are talking about general practice. Most people making that much are doing more specialization.
>>10458456Boohoo that's what happens when you work for state funded establishments. Make better career choices. It's not anyone else's problem that you chose to work with snot nosed kids and now you're salty that you don't think you get what you deserve. Sucks to fucking suck.
>>10458465i doubt anon is even a teacher.
>>10458448imagine thinking nurses don't have massive debt from their schooling that takes time to pay off
>>10458470Seriously this person is a moron. Most student nurses can't work while in nursing school because it's practically a full time job, meaning they have to take out fat loans that land them in debt for a very long time.Imagine thinking everyone should get paid the same lol
>>10458472>indeed>user reported >based on 8k usersoh. okay.
>>10458472Cost of living is very expensive in California. Plus this is based off of a small sample of nurses. Try again.
>>10458484https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/rankings-and-ratings/registered-nurse-salary-for-all-50-states-california-no-1-at-113-240.htmlenjoy more spoonfeeding, idiot
>>10458489>How much does a Registered Nurse (RN), Level 1 make in California? The average Registered Nurse (RN), Level 1 salary in California is $71,360 as of July 27, 2020, but the range typically falls between $64,030 and $82,410. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on the city and many other important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession.OH. OKAY.
>>10458478anon was saying a nurse would never need a roommate, that's what the reply is to.
>>10458472If they make bank then why do they need to live with you?
>>10458491>California: $113,240>California: $113,240>California: $113,240read the article dumbass. the stats are literally from the fucking bureau of labor and linked. you can't possibly be this retarded.
>>10458470So they have massive debt that forces them to live in a not ideal conditions but also they make too much money? Pick one.
>>10458496Doesn't really matter how much they get paid because you're not entitled to the same pay as someone else just because you're envious
>>10458500So cost of living is high, obviously because they need to live with multiple housemates, not just one. Plus they're in debt they need to pay off. But they're still rolling in the dough as you like to make it seem?
>>10458491It literally doesn't say that but go off.
>>10458501literally my only point is that they're not working class, not whatever derailment trolling you're going for here.
>>10458505Working class and being middle class aren't mutually exclusive you retard. We're not talking about your redefined commie terms either. They work long hours and often end up in tons of debt, but make enough to live fairly comfortably. Sounds like working class to me, dumdum.
So, um, back to lolita comms....
>look in thread hoping for some sweet tea>instead get a debate about the hypothetical living conditions of nurses Oh kay then. I guess that's what we get for having a comm thread during a pandemic.
>>10458509>seriously thinks 6 figs is middle class
>>10458505>they’re not working class because they make more than me despite the fact that their current living expenses exceed what they makeYou must think the people that make 70k in nyc aren’t working class either
>>10458505Huh Weird Looks like working class applies to people who work (especially manual labor, which is part of nursing) primarily for their wages Nothing said here about exploitation or how much one makes. Very strange. Guess we'll go with your definition though!
>>10458505working class has fuckall to do with how much money you make. it's about your power as a worker. like everyone has been saying, nurses are in positions to have their labor exploited. other working class jobs can make similar amounts as nurses in your state (such as oil rig workers) and they are working class for the same reason. buying power is not in the equation. however unlike anon said earlier lawyers are not working class because they don't have much chance of labor exploitation and do not do dangerous or labor intensive jobs.
>>10458516Not every nurse makes 6 figures dumbass, and the ones that do either went to school for longer or live somewhere where the the cost of living is high. How are you still not taking this into account? Jesus you are fucking dense.
>>10458516>she thinks 100k in cali isn't middle class
>>10458521It's not going to get through to them. They think being denied PPE and getting fired for using your own isn't exploitation and is just "having kind of a hard time for a little while".
>>10458516You have no grasp on basic economics and it really shows.
I looked back in the thread and it's fucking wild, it's not even like a local/online comm had a nurse who claimed she was working class or something. The first mention is >>10458239 where it seems to be a bit of an offhand example anon thought of at the time. Damn gulls, you must be bored or something.
>>10458527uhuh. you keep telling yourself that, are you trying to live vicariously through your roommate?
>>10458527Do you really think nurses are high class millionaires just livin it up 24/7? Holy fuck.
>>10458532>you must be bored or something.there's nothing to do during the plague but throw salt.
>>10458533Sounds like they're mad about their useless degree so they project their idea that nurses have it so easy and just roll in the dough while the real hard workers like her have to suffer soooo much )))):
>>10458538yeah comm threads during a pandemic seem to be a mistake considering nothing is happening so we all end up here arguing about balling nurses.
>>10458505Most nurses don't even get to take a piss or eat when they need to because hospitals are understaffed because of greed but ok tell me more about how nurses don't work hard and don't get exploited
>>10458542did you miss the part about how the definition of working class says nothing about how much money you make and its about the amount of manual labor you do?
the derailment itt reminded me exactly why communism and socialism are a fucking joke.
>>10458110Not to derail a derailing but most farmers don’t own their own means of production anymore, they’re put into forever debts by farming conglomerates and it’s sucked rural regions pretty dry.
>>10458548Right? It actually terrifies me. Im going to school to be a nurse and I can't believe some of these communists actually believe nurses are super rich and need to have their wealth redistributed. I don't want to go to school and work my ass off just to get the paid the same as everyone else. Fuck that.
>>10458546wtf why would i read your pseudo intellectual drivel i want comm tea not this derailment shit.
>>10458164Yeah there's a difference between language evolving naturally and people literally contacting Mirriam Webster to change the definition so it can suit their agenda.
>>10458551good thing they don't actually do anything to make a difference so you can keep your hard earned cash. don't worry about them, seriously.
>>10458551the problem with this thinking is that it leads to situations like jeff bezos, who has more money than some entire countries do. there has to be some kind of medium between the two
>>10458556Thanks anon. I just worry because people who have fled from socialist countries eg Venezuela have said that what's happening in America is eerily similar to what happened during the social revolution over there. Just hope we can stop this shit before it's too late.
>>10458558I agree with you that there needs to be changes, but tearing down the system and making everyone equal but not free in the name of "fairness" is not the way to go IMO.
>>10458561Most Americans who lean “socialist” aren’t looking for fucking gulags they’re looking for basic needs to be met and would probably be easily sedated by minimal changes. Your well earned salary won’t change if bezos gives his workers all $5 more an hour and gets rid of piss break penalties on fridays I promise.
>>10458565have you even read this thread bb? that crazy bitch itt was reeing about 100k salaries.
>>10458567You’re truly under the assumption a single 4chan user is indicative of the behavior of several thousand people?
>>10458568it's an example that counters yours. most people who want living wages and universal health care don't even consider themselves socialist because most socialists are crazy leftists who are anarchists.
>>10458570Most people who want health care not being socialist doesn’t counter the fact that most people who publicly define themselves as such don’t want to live in some anarcho-Stalinist state or whatever anon is going on about. It’s like claiming that most people who would call themselves a feminist are the same people who would call for straight male genocide like the tumblr population.
>>10458565Stop thinking you speak for everyone. There are plenty of self proclaimed communists who do think peope like myself should have their wealth redistributed. Also I'm not for universal Healthcare and I can see why that seems like a nice idea on the surface but I have my own ideas on solutions to the problem but it's not something I feel like arguing about on 4chan just so I can be called capitalist scum or whatever.
>>10458572Name one of them who is in any position of power to change things. Quickly.
>>10458575who gives a shit. quit derailing.
>>10458571You're really not paying attention. There's tons of people saying that socialist policies are just a means to fully communist end goal. Marxism is extremely popular amongst the youth especially, I know this because I was a hard-core leftist and had a lot of coworkers who hated capitalism on principle without being able to explain what exactly it was they hated about it or what the word itself actually means. There are plenty of people wanting to tear down the system.
Can you guys all shut the fuck up about communism and post actual online drama again before the thread ends
>>10458575Let me give you an example of how people actually are being put in positions of power to do whatever they want: in my state there are riots happening on a daily basis with innocent citizens being the victims of senseless violence while our leaders do literally fuck all about it, people who try to defend themselves get jail time and the people who iniate violence get off scott free. Stop acting like these kinds of ideas can't gain traction. I'm really sick of you people turning and blind eye and telling those of us who get subjected to it that it isn't happening. It's frustrating and it comes off as manipulative, frankly.
>>10458585please don't argue with idealists, anon.
>>10458584just help kill the thread so we can resurrect it to be on topic next time.
>>10458587You're right, anon. It's wasted energy, these people won't see it until it affects their daily lives too.
>>10458560Well you should be worried because this shit is so insidious and it's happened many other places besides Venezuela. That they have the majority of the media on their side should at least be concerning. And I don't for a second believe that people just want $5 more per hour, the really dedicated people behind this movement want actual communism, and socialism is just a stepping stone. Just look at the "trained Marxists" behind the BLM organization.
>>10458575How about all the media organizations writing constantly about how the protests are super peaceful and socialism is such a nice idea. Media doesn't have any power I guess.
God I wish it were like this
>>10458592I happen to find this very on topic as my comm is fucking full of these people sitting around in full AP taking about how much they hate capitalism
>>10458600Then can we at least keep it to the disconnect between buying $300 dresses made by child laborers and advocating for “labor rights” or whatever instead of complaining about whether nurses are working class for 200+ posts
>>10458600Bullshit and you know it. We've crossed that point so long ago.
>>10458598Give up the dream anon
>>10458594That's what im saying. BLM founders literally call themselves Marxists but we're just supposed to shut up and ignore it because it's just a few radicals until it's all of them. Seeing my city on fire on a nightly basis isn't exactly comforting.
>>10458607Okay, I laughed
>>10458572it sounds like you wanna be a nurse for the money, not because you care about people and their health
>>10458575Except Cosmo literally released an article called "Marxism 101" but sure these people have no power and there's no way full on communism could actually become widespread.
>>10458610Sounds like I care about people and want to heal them but I'd like to be paid adequately for it because its not a fun you do for fun. Oh noes looks like im an evil capitalist.
>>10458610Let me guess, every communist is a loving altruistic angel and anyone who has different views is evil and greedy and wants to destroy the planet?
>>10458613would you still do it if the pay weren't high? no? then you don't actually care or want to help people.
>>10458615It's not a job I'd do for minimum wage and you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who would. It's a career choice and not everybody needs to be a communist to be good at their job.Caring about people and wanting to be paid well aren't mutually exclusive bud.
>>10458615Nayrt but who cares? This is just childish.
>>10458615Good luck finding someone who unconditionally cares about people when 50% of them don't even give a shit about their own health while also doing it for shit pay. Delusional idealism is a fucking disease.
>>10458615you realize that no one wants to do trash jobs for low pay, right? there are easier jobs than nursing that pay the same amount and require less school.
>>10458621Nayrt but how do you feel about the teaching crisis going on right now? Considering how many years it takes and the shit salary that comes with it.
>>10458620yeah they're called teachers lol
Hey when this thread ends can we have both sides of you guys go to pol and leftypol or whatever so we can talk about dresses on the next one
>>10458625i think teachers or prospective teachers are right to want more pay and better benefits. especially in our country where they have to do live shooter drills. there's a reason there's a shortage.>>10458626yes and there's a huge shortage right now because of that. try again.
>>10458626Stop with the martyrdom, please. I can care about the health of people and also want the pay that comes with it. No I would not risk being exposed to deadly diseases and potentially working through natural disasters for 15 dollars an hour. You don't seem too happy about the shit pay that comes with teaching so why the hell would I be fine with working a dangerous job for garbage pay?
I never thought I’d say this but I miss when comm threads were about real lolita drama
>>10458626Are you the same anon that thinks nurses are rich? It sounds like you're a teacher for the sole purpose of patting yourself on the back for how altruistic and caring you are when really you're just a narcissistic bitter cunt. If the pay is so terrible get another fucking job, Jesus christ.
>>10458625Fuck teachers, my dad worked his ass off to become a teacher because the party was so much better than what he was getting. These bitches sit around all summer crying about how hard life is while everyone else is working.I'm actually pro raising teacher salary. But the current crop of teachers wouldn't get it because they would be immediately replaced by much more qualified people. And that's a good thing.
>>10458632I mean this is kinda what happens when mods get delete happy with anything vaguely talking about an individual, positive or negative, but ignore huge tangents about the ethical ramifications of protesting or whatever until they’re 100% of a thread
>>10458637>>10458632Just go to lolcow then?
>>10458640lolcow barely has anything recently except for big names drama. I want the local drama
>>10458637It pisses me off. At this point most threads have more off-topic than on-topic content. Drama is a thousand times more relevant than politics, you can go literally anywhere else on the internet for that.
>>10458648I think people are just sick of the hypocrisy, because nobody seems to care when SJW lolitas talk about their politics but as soon as someone says they're tired of hearing about "capitalism bad" we get shit on for derailing.
>>10458650This isn't even true. There is shitflinging from both sides and it just needs to be moved somewhere else. I don't care if I agree with you or not, not every space has to be politicised.
>>10458650Because we try to not feed trolls/sjws that functionally act the same or else you get huge bloated threads like this retard. You should know better.
>>10458551Commie here, whoever says nurses are super rich and need to have their wealth distributed is stupid. The owner of the hospital is the one who should have their wealth distributed, you should be paid full value of what your work produces and shouldn’t be in debt in order to learn a function that will help society. The hospital needs nurses and doctors, it doesn’t need someone to gain money for the labor you are providing.