Taobao argument

[Anonymous No.10062218]

Talk about how much you hate taobao or try to convince elitists to give taobao a chance here

[Anonymous No.10062227]

>>10062218

Ehh, a couple of them are good. But you gotta admit there's a hell of a lot of meme type dresses on taobao. Like that doge one.

[Anonymous No.10062228]

>>10062218
Good one

[Anonymous No.10062232]

I've been wearing lolita for a few years now and I just never felt the need to buy from taobao. Everything I want is already available from Japanese shops..

[Anonymous No.10062237]

The only taobao brand I consistently like is the sub brand of Angel's Heart, Moonlight Forest.

[Anonymous No.10062241]

Language. It's not 'elitist' to want to focus on the Japanese brands of a Japanese street fashion with some true indie things as the welcome exception.

>>10062232
Same

>>10062237
Everyone thinks their little niche preference in the cheap Chinese e-mall is the exception.
News: it's not.

Y'all are stupid for taking this taobao bait at the same prices you could be buying good used brand. If it was anything good overall, Chinese lolitas would be wearing a lot more of it since it's even cheaper for them and quick/easy to send. But are they? No.

You know what else taobao has a lot of? Recast bjd. So no standards at all as an online commerce site. Meaning anyone can set up a shop with trash in it. And they do.

[Anonymous No.10062245]

>>10062241

Jfc chill anon. I said I only liked one taobao brand ever when I usually wear AP (not used, brand new from the store). People are allowed to like both.

[Anonymous No.10062248]

The only taobao brand I've ever seen that appears to be made with high quality material and construction is akane&alois, and I assume the designs are so simple because of that.

[Anonymous No.10062251]

>>10062248

[Anonymous No.10062252]

>>10062232
I have mostly brand but I do have a couple of "taobao" dresses. They're actually from diamon honey and Yolanda and they're both nice.
I would say the Yolanda one is nicer. It's thick and perfect for winter. Has a lot of nice details too and came with detachable accessories.
The diamond honey one would probably be seen as "cheap" in the eyes of most anons but I love the print artwork and think its adorable.

[Anonymous No.10062255]

>>10062248
Sorry anon, those waist gathers are uneven, the lace is cheapest rayon, the fabric doesn't look that great close up and the skirt tucks and hem are puckered.

[Anonymous No.10062262]

>>10062241
I've worked for two different online shopping apps and you sound like every dumb email I have ever read where the customer is convinced that quality control will stop people from making accounts to sell replicas and fake shit. Taobao is a marketplace. Some sellers are bad and others are decent and some are good. People sell garbage on every platform like ebay and Amazon.

[Anonymous No.10062266]

>>10062255
Still, some of the better taobao I've seen. I don't have any of their stuff so It's all my speculation ofc, but this was from a LJ review: "This shop is run by an independent designer. Each piece is produced as ordered and made with the customer's measurements by a tailor with whom Akane & Alois has been working for some time."
So I respect that, at the very least.

[Anonymous No.10062271]

I think part of the reason girls get suckered into taobao is because they aren't that familiar with quality clothing construction to begin with. If you shop at budget and big-box stores for all your normal wear, then you don't really know what good quality clothes are. So the taobao piece seems similar to the AP piece. Now I'm not saying holy burando is some couture level stuff, it's not.

But there's as much quality difference between most of the taobao stuff and brand as there is between brand and designer items. And it's obvious to people who DO know the difference.
I worked in a retail boutique, western clothing at about the same quality level and price point as brand, so I had to learn the differences.

It's also quite a shame that the taobao shoppers are paying that much for what is basically a Target or F-21 quality item.

[Anonymous No.10062278]

>>10062266
Come back when you've paid your own $100 for a dress with wonky gathers, fabric that will pill and lace that will shred and there's no exchange or refund. Stop speculating and showing stock photos then defending your speculation when someone who actually sews takes the time to tell you what's visibly and obviously wrong with a piece accurately. Buy taobao if you want it but stop trying to pretend it is something that it's not.
That's part of the problem.

[Anonymous No.10062377]

I hate when people use the argument that you can buy secondhand brand at Taobao prices. Most brand that is being sold that cheap is either ugly as shit or has some extreme damage. If I'm gonna be throwing away $70 regardless, I'd rather it be for the NWT dress with a cute design (because, quality aside, there have been some cute Taobao designs) than for the rejected brand design that ended up in a lucky pack with a giant stain on the side that may or may not come out.

[Anonymous No.10062384]

>>10062377
>Most brand that is being sold that cheap is either ugly as shit or has some extreme damage
>rejected brand design that ended up in a lucky pack with a giant stain on the side that may or may not come out
Your wild exaggerations and willful ignorance is hilarious, but whatever makes you feel better about your Party City tier costumes.

[Anonymous No.10062389]

The people who favor taobao go on and on about the many shops that are just as good as brand, but they don't name any of them. I wonder why.

[Anonymous No.10062393]

Taobao dresses that are comparable to Japanese brand..... The first one that springs to mind is Dream Magical. Most of their dresses are cotton, patterns are matched on the seams, buttons are sewn on well, lace is always custom. Christian Lacroix it is not, but it stands up to my AP and holds its own. Sibyl Heisei is run by a lolita who wears a lot of Boz, she pretty much just makes things she herself wants to wear, with enough quality control that her personal standards are met. I only have one dress from Nightmare but it is also very good, the fabric is synthetic but feels almost disconcertingly like silk, and has a bit of weight to it. Their releases are few and far between and can be purchased for a weirdly steep markup on Wunderwelt Fleur.

Beyond those 3..... Some tb brands are excellent and some are shitty. Diamond Honey was never great but it's gotten much worse in the past year. Never buy Nameless Poem or Astrology Cat from anyone who can't prove it's from the original store, there are too many replicas of those. In fact, there are so many cheap replicas of Chinese dresses readily available in the 80-150 RMB range that I'm sure plenty of bargain shoppers in the West are buying those suckers up and gradually distributing them (via 2nd-hand sales) throughout the community, and that isn't doing anybody any favors.

Moral of the story? Excessively generalizing anything just makes you sound bitter.

[Anonymous No.10062395]

>>10062384
I don't even buy Taobao, I'm patient enough to save up for brand, but that "tip" is the most useless bullshit ever. I constantly scour secondhand websites for stuff to buy and have yet to find brand that cheap that's cute and in decent condition. You might be able to get yourself a blouse at that price point.

[Anonymous No.10062418]

>>10062395
If you wear sweet, you can find stuff on amazing condition consistently under $50. Same for old school, and maybe classic? Idk about gothic though you're probably out of luck there.

[Anonymous No.10062423]

>>10062418
> sweet
> amazing condition consistently under $50
Yeah, that's bait if you mean anything other than socks and headbows

[Anonymous No.10062431]

>>10062423
No I just know how to buy from mercari. Also I spend around 1000 yen average on headbows

[Anonymous No.10062434]

>>10062395
>>10062423
>I'm retarded therefore everyone else must be too

[Anonymous No.10062440]

>>10062418
>>10062434
I'd love to see some links.

[Anonymous No.10062442]

>>10062440
Links to what? Brand that you can afford? Shopping services that can buy from mercari? How hard do you want me to hold your hand anon?

[Anonymous No.10062447]

>>10062442
nta but I'd actually like a recommendation for a solid SS for mercari
I wonder if there's a guide for those japanese second hand shops somewhere? if not, there could be one similar to the taobao guides

[Anonymous No.10062448]

>>10062442
Brand under 5000 yen that's cute and in good condition, can you not read?

[Anonymous No.10062453]

>>10062448
Only if you pay me to be your personal shopper. Sorry, not willing to find deals for retards for free.

[Anonymous No.10062460]

>>10062440
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/category/list/2084229923/?va=&fixed=0&price_type=currentprice&min=&max=5000&istatus=0&abatch=0&va2=&vo=&auccat=2084229923&exflg=1&b=1&imgc=&loc_cd=

[Anonymous No.10062461]

>>10062440
Nayrt but here's some stuff I bought recently. Milky Planet isn't 5000 yen but I'm sure you can see why I included it lol

[Anonymous No.10062465]

>>10062448
go on any shopping site and set the search for under 5000 yen you literal retard

[Anonymous No.10062471]

>>10062393
This is the only sensible argument so far for even looking at anything from taobao. Finally, some specifics, thank you.

>>10062377
Take $100usd, some patience and all your best detective skills and go shopping. If you are shopping in the correct places, many of the second hand brand dresses you can find will most likely surpass most of the things you can buy for the same amount on taobao. Finding things to most suited to your taste and in good condition is where the patience comes in. But it’s entirely possible and many of us have slowly but surely filled our closets with our brand doing exactly that.

[Anonymous No.10062472]

If I'm buying from taobao it's because I like whatever print/design is being sold, same as buying from brand. It's not as high quality as brand but that's not what I'm expecting from it. Just buy what you want to buy, I don't see what's so hard about that.

[Anonymous No.10062474]

>>10062423
You need to learn to shop for good lolita on a budget. Your closet can grow faster if you are willing to be flexible on some cuts and colors (and fit smaller cuts) but it’s entirely do-able. It’s not that hard to learn but it takes patience and time, like all good things.
People saying this aren’t baiting but they aren’t going to spoonfeed you either.

[Anonymous No.10062485]

While I prefer japanese brands as much as anyone else, I do appreciate taobao items too. I find some dresses really cute, and while I'm not always really on board with the fabric choices but if it has other good qualities to it that I personally like I don't mind it that much.

Also, as someone that is tall with wide ribs and a D-cup the availability of bigger sizes on taobao is also what attracts me. But basically, I like both. Regular burando is better, but I don't mind what taobao's indie brands got to offer.

[Anonymous No.10062488]

>>10062453
Which can also be read as "I'm not going to provide links because I'm talking out of my ass." Ok.

>>10062460
Almost all of those are auctions, which means the price will likely go up within the last hour or so. Not really an accurate representation.

>>10062461
Thank you for being the only person to actually back up what you're talking about. That skirt is actually pretty cute, although some of the other stuff looks to be in pretty rough shape...

>>10062471
I understand your argument, but why should people have to wait when there's perfectly adequate dresses people can get now? And again, they'd be brand new.

[Anonymous No.10062492]

>>10062218
1/2
>how much you hate taobao or try to convince elitists to give taobao a chance here
There are a lot of shitty TaoBao brands, there are a few good ones. There are also some mediocre brands that release a gem every now and then, and otherwise are consistently wearable for casual moments.

I like some TaoBao items for daily wear, a few I would wear on events too but only the better ones. Brand will always feel a little bit more special because of their history with the Fashion, and simply the name in the tag. But I'll still buy TaoBao items I like if the quality is wearable and the price is ok for what you get. Would never dismiss brand for it tho.

I dislike these meme type dresses. They tend to look bad and "edgy" and are often very low in quality, relying purely on their edginess to sell. If I wanted shit like that I would go to hot topic, they've got enough stuff to look edgy. I also dislike all these cheap ass stores pop-ing up obviously not caring for the fashion but wanting to make money on the trend. I keep track of new brands because some are nice, but mostly they are crap. I wish they wouldn't clog the Lolita Updates post and such as much and stay in the Chinese Lolita Updates with that. No matter how much I love some TaoBao brands, it's not the same as Japanese brands for many and for a reason.

Personally, one big pro of TaoBao is, to me, the options for custom sizing. I'm not even fat, but I'm tall and curvy and even when I can easily fit into most Japanese brand size wise, custom sizing makes items fit so much nicer (at least, from brands who know what they do. Some brands are so full of shit their custom sizing sucks). Also, sleeves and shoudler width are often longer in my experience, many Japanese blouses I have are too short on me.

[Anonymous No.10062493]

>>10062218
2/2
In general, and in terms of the TaoBao vs brand debate:
I would say buy what you like, but if you generalise then know that it's exactly that, a generalisation. There are always execptions. There are tons of reasons to buy brand above TaoBao, but don't go act delisional like all TaoBao is the same, or like brand is flawless. Similarly, you can get brand for the price of TaoBao easily nowadays, and if you take the effort to buy TaoBao with a SS, you can do the same for Japanese auction sites. And most TaoBao is lower quality. But don't look down on those who wear TaoBao and do actually look good in it. Look at individual coords instead. For the other side of the front, it's fine if you like TaoBao more and preffer it, but just like brandwhores need to acknowledge not all TaoBao is bad, taobaowhores need to acknowledge TaoBao isn't some godsend place where everything is amazing and the same quality as brand for less. How can you expect them to be understanding/respectful when you can't even be realistic yourself? Especially when a lot of the more crappy brands are more known/popular and often bought by newbies because they are so cheap. Shit more nuanced than "it's great" or "it's horrible".

>>10062241
Chinese do wear a lot of TaoBao in general, just not at big brand events because there they want to wear their fancy OTT brand dresses. Also not when they want to show off how much of daddies money they can spend.

[Anonymous No.10062494]

>>10062488
As someone who has bought both secondhand burando dresses in good condition for under $50 and bought taobao dresses brand new for around the same price, brand is better bar none. Taobao can take months to get to your location depending on your country. The last taobao dress I bought took me almost two months after release to arrive thanks to an incompetent agent. Even after learning how to taobao without an agent my items come in about a month and a half after purchase. At least when I buy secondhand brand through a Japanese SS my dresses come in within a week and a half. And even if the brand is in rough shape, several washes usually does the trick. Unless the material doesn’t allow it then you’re SOL.

[Anonymous No.10062496]

>Even after learning how to taobao without an agent my items come in about a month and a half after purchase
This service is actually very slow, as it's send to a warehouse owned by Alibaba who then ships it trough, so it's like a slow but free inbetween address/service.

If you really want, you can get in stock items in a week if you have a address in China to send to (who helps you to ship overseas), or a very quick SS, then ship trough shipping service with DHL. It's quick, but cost roughly the same as EMS. On the other hand, if don't take DHL I wait longer for second hand brand too.

[Anonymous No.10062503]

>>10062496
I some times get lucky and the seller is willing to ship directly to me as opposed to sending it to the warehouse but that is a pretty rare occurrence desu. And their shipping prices vary. One time a taobao seller shipped a secondhand AP dress through EMS for $7.

[Anonymous No.10062506]

>>10062503
>One time a taobao seller shipped a secondhand AP dress through EMS for $7.
I now envy you. I've never seen anything this cheap. But EMS is as slow as air for me, just more expansive and allows bigger packages.

[Anonymous No.10062515]

>>10062488
It is an accurate representation because people who have any experience shopping on there know that the price will not go up much unless it's a sought after print

[Anonymous No.10062516]

>>10062488
None of the pieces were in rough shape, just wrinkled which is easy to fix with a steamer. Fabric wasn't worn out or anything. The only piece that was damaged was the promenade set which had a stain on the collar, which I easily removed!

[Anonymous No.10062517]

>>10062488
nayrt but "pretty rough shape" my ass how retarded do you have to be to not know how to wash and steam a dress... nasty

[Anonymous No.10062518]

>>10062517
Judging from anon's disbelief and arguments about that you can snag brand pieces for this price in the first place, she's probably pretty retarded. I'm not even into sweet and I know you can get nice pieces for cheap on the regular if you look out for them.

[Anonymous No.10062535]

I would never have a full taobao lolita wardrobe and i will not ever recommend anybody to have one. I find most the prints really tacky (the op picture in particular is triggering). However, for shoes and accessories, accessories, especially if your a broke bitch, it's pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.10062540]

>>10062535
OP is an ap replica

[Anonymous No.10062546]

i think something to consider is that taobao isn't ALWAYS an alternative to brand--some people just buy stuff from taobao because they like the design and one of the brands isn't offering the same thing. ezpz.

i have 70-something brand pieces, mostly old AP and BTSSB prior to their polyester preferences. even more than that in blouses, socks, what have you. i've bought prints from taobao too. not because i have to because of the price difference or the availability--just because the prints are damn cute and i want to wear them. same with blouses that have certain features that make me really want them.

i don't really get why this is such a polarizing topic tbqh

[Anonymous No.10062548]

As others have already mentioned, I don't need taobao because of secondhand brand satisfying all my needs. I find most taobao to be fairly priced: it costs less than brand and the quality is worse (but not bad), **generally speaking**. However, with secondhand brand market being quite big I can find all I like for the same price as taobao.

Btw, I don't think you can consistently buy brand for really cheap... Some pieces go for less than 50USD, but they are not always in good conditions or pretty releases. Even if you find something you like, if you add shipping fees, customs and shopping service fees I wouldn't consider the price "cheap" (although it is not expensive, either). And this comes from someone who has bought dresses for under 20USD. But they were good deals and not the norm, you know. You can be lucky especially if you always check, but yeah buying brand still costs and it's not like you can save that much over taobao, or vice versa.

All in all I wouldn't think bad of someone for wearing taobao, especially if they have good coording skills. I would consider buying from taobao myself, if I found a dress I liked from a brand with good reputation. But I will always prefer the superior quality of my favourite (Japanese) brands.

[Anonymous No.10062562]

taobao is only good for legwear and accessories desu, even most of the blouses are shoddy and have messy construction

[Anonymous No.10062569]

>>10062218
there are a few nice taobao items that I love having, an interesting cut or print of a dress that’s cute, some of my most worn blouses are from taobao. one example being bunnys herbology, cute print, great quality for price. i especially love the sheer blouses from taobao as well, perfect for summer with cute whimsical designs.

[Anonymous No.10062593]

>>10062218
i bought a long winter wool coat from HMHM on taobao, had it custom sized it’s on it’s 3rd year of wear and still looks great with only buttons needing to be fixed. i bought an ap short wool coat and it’s a lot thinner and not as warm :/ still cute but i guess more of a spring/fall jacket. taobao has some variation in prints from usual brand stuff

[Anonymous No.10062598]

>>10062593
>HMHM on taobao
From what I saw of them they are crap quality, not to forget they have made replica's before. Not one of the best places to recommend.

I only owned one item myself, which i bought second hand, and the fabric kept ripping. What I've seen on other peoples items it's not great either. Add to that the replica's and I'll say they aren't reputable.

[Anonymous No.10062604]

Honestly at this point, the taobao vs brand debate is beating a dead horse but here I go anyways. I don't think taobao is necessarily cheaper or more accessible than brand (if you count the secondhand market) considering the unknowns like quality, production time, and ss fees. I think if you like taobao great, taobao has more variety and some shops have custom sizing. I personally do not buy main pieces from taobao anymore, nor do I buy blouses either, I've personally have had a lackluster experience with buying stuff from them, the sizing was off, the zipper broke the first time I put it on even though the dress ended up being way too large for me (not a anachan either)... and so on. With brand I know what I'm getting, and yeah I know part of the price is the branding but like I work hard for my brand.

[Anonymous No.10062618]

>>10062604
I don’t think it’s quite a dead horse yet and I’m glad it’s finally being openly discussed. I think quite a few people gave some of the shops there a try but the quality just isn't consistently there 90% of the time. Good pieces are the exception and finding them is time-intensive, ordering is not convenient. I’d rather go with brand as a more sure thing, and brand usually has decent resale value as well.

[Anonymous No.10062629]

>>10062278
I'm sick of all these cgl seamstresses talking about how they're better at sewing than Chinese factory workers.
You're doing it for funsies. Those people have no choice of work. That's a huge difference.

[Anonymous No.10062634]

>>10062488
>Which can also be read as "I'm not going to provide links because I'm talking out of my ass." Ok.
How the fuck are we supposed to know what YOU think is cute and good quality? If people just post things for you, you're just gonna turn around and call it shitty because that's the typical 4chan troll game.

[Anonymous No.10062637]

>>10062488
>>10062516
Ahahaha 10062488 got blown the fuck out so hard

[Anonymous No.10062642]

>>10062546
>i don't really get why this is such a polarizing topic
Because stupid anons needed a boogeyman for lolita and morons come here to bandwagon contrarian opinions cause that gets them instant replies.

[Anonymous No.10062659]

>>10062629
That's exactly why they are better at it. They have time and money to get into it while these workers don't and have to learn by mistakes that make it through china's shitty quality control.

[Anonymous No.10062774]

>>10062604

I'm expecting it to be a cyclical topic at this point, probably every time a new wave of new people come into the hobby and decide to go the taobao route, some of them will be bratty enough to throw a tantrum that we aren't showing her cheap clothes enough respect, check your privileges burandowhores.

To be honest I don't really mind discussing taobao quality, brands can change and China does have a lot of factories. Some of them must be capable of producing top quality stuff. It'd be nice if it wasn't triggered by and served with so much butthurt all the time though.

[Anonymous No.10062913]

>>10062774
Hence the containment thread which will hopefully continue because neither side of the argument needs to be shitting up lolita general. Yes there are a few good taobao pieces, but no, probably none of the taobao brands will ever jump over the gulf into being classified with burando.

[Anonymous No.10062922]

>>10062629
That still doesn’t mean we want generally subpar dresses. You can say taobao is good for what it is and that’s fine but many still won’t like or want it because we want items that are better than quality than that. And seeing what was once mostly a fashion of generally decent quality Japanese brands devolve into a parade of cheaper quality Chinese things makes the fashion just seem more costume-like than ever. Which is something mos of us hope to avoid.

A few decent quality dresses from a small handful of shops have been good quality and well-designed. That still leaves the vast majority of taobao stuff as mostly cheap crap that is not worth even what they charge for it.

The fact that taobao as a marketplace promotes so many bootleg and fake items in other areas gives it a shady rep as a marketplace too. Sure there are some bootlegs everywhere but most of the bjds and Blythe on taobao are all fakes. It’s not a good marketplace, it undercuts legitimacy in niche hobbies. I won’t ever shop there.

[Anonymous No.10062961]

>>10062922
Agreed.

I'll never respect you if you continue to buy from taobao. Even if you get a good quality dress from a Chinese atelier that sells on taobao, it doesn't matter. Supporting China's economy and terrible governmental policies is not something I want a part of if it's avoidable. Buying firsthand from them is not something I will ever appreciate.

Taobao has just made lolita even more similar to fast fashion. Local fabric suppliers and industry in Japan is closing because everyone is outsourcing to China. Buying from taobao only exacerbates the problem.

[Anonymous No.10062970]

>>10062659
shocking news: people in different countries are different
of course they're better. But they don't see a fuck ton of dresses do they?

>>10062961
>I'll never respect you if you continue to buy from taobao
here we go again with the extremisms.

>>10062922
>but many still won't want it
at this point it's just hoity toity anons on cgl though..

[Anonymous No.10062982]

>>10062970
Do you know how a factory works? Repetitively sewing the same seam over and over with a machine doesn't make you better at sewing or designing. Which is ultimately what we're talking about here.

[Anonymous No.10062983]

>>10062982
NO. I'm saying it's silly to compare yourself to someone who does it for a living when gulls are doing it as a hobby. Of course if you actually care about what you're doing it's going to come out better because you're going to spend more time on it.
Those workers are just there because they have to be. It's different.

[Anonymous No.10062984]

>>10062961
I agree about the fast fashion part. Most girls who wear lolita and aren’t wealthy or aren’t lifestylers do wear mostly cheap fast fashion outside of lolita though, so if they don’t have anything really well made, they cant see the obvious difference.

In about 80% of the taobao items, you can tell immediately by looking at the photos that the fabric and trim choices and the construction quality is lacking. Of the remaining 20%, maybe a few are well designed. And sorting through so much crap to get to a few gems that are at best only nearly as good as brand wastes a lot of time. Not to mention mistakes where the stock photo looks ok but something isn’t right or the fit is not too. Resale value in most cases isn’t great.

If it was a question of affording things on a budget, I’d use that time to pick up a few extra work hours or a freelance gig to just buy some brand, coordinate a small but cohesive wardrobe carefully and style myself well with a focus on quality > quantity.

I never fault a well-styled lolita for having a small closet but I’ll side-eye one with a larger closet of poor quality stuff.

>>10062970
No it isn’t just hoity toity anons. Go through past wardrobe posts if you don’t keep up with those. Ive noticed that a uite a few closets don’t contain taobao or if they do, only a token main piece or 2 besides just cheap accessories.

[Anonymous No.10062999]

>>10062983
Okay and is it hard to believe their are some designers out there who also do it for a living? I really don't get what you're trying to say. You're sick of gulls bringing up the truth because these poor Chinese workers are just trying to make a buck?

[Anonymous No.10063002]

>>10062540
I'm aware and I hate the original ap print as well. I've seen way too many replicas of this print that manage to look even worse.

[Anonymous No.10063106]

>>10062546
>i don't really get why this is such a polarizing topic tbqh

because cgl is incapable of not being contrarian. just a couple years ago taobao was the god of cgl, with better designs and quality than japanese brand. but now taobao is popular so cgl has to hate it and act like its all just as bad as bodyline, which also used to be well loved, same with replicas too, believe it or not.

[Anonymous No.10063109]

>>10063106
>muh hivemind

[Anonymous No.10063126]

>>10063106
Replicas and Bodyline were never 'well loved' by the majority of the lolita community. They were marginally tolerated budget alternatives (often referenced as "for poorfags and fatty-chans") and there was much rejoicing when replicas were banned from EGL and EGL_sales.

Even Japanese lolitas were and are embarrassed to admit a dress is from Bodyline to the point where they will more often than not actually lie and say they forgot where they bought it and wouldn't tag the store in their street snap very often. A sharp eye can spot some pieces in the Bible's snaps but they are most often not credited.

Bodyline lists itself as a costume shop voluntarily in their business categorization. Only a handful of their older non-printed things and shoes have ever been considered OK. Not well loved.

Ditto for taobao. People who have mostly a taobao lolita wardrobe are usually people who cheap out or need the extended sizing. The rest of us probably have a few of the good pieces but not as much as you might think. The heartbeat of the fashion, even if it has gone global, will always be the major Japanese brands.

[Anonymous No.10063149]

I've been periodically trying to review some of the pieces I own from Taobao, showing the quality and construction elements. I own plenty of brand, but do enjoy the Taobao pieces i own. I am really sick of the garbage that resellers like devilisnpired pick up, because they are low quality and give Taobao as a whole a bad name. But I do think there are some interesting, lovely prints being made from taobao brands. I wish it wasn't just a blanket statement that everything on Taobao is garbage. I think if your style is pretty consistent with a Japanese brand then sure, don't bother with Taobao. But personally there are prints that interest me and I wear lolita ~3-4 x a week so I like having a broad wardrobe. http://ltracks.tumblr.com/post/177044053687/i-recently-purchased-this-jsk-off-of-yahoo-jp

[Anonymous No.10063152]

>>10062961
Didn't someone say AP was being made in China?

[Anonymous No.10063160]

>>10063152

#deadhorse This was replied to so many times I think the anons just can't be arsed to reply again anymore, but AP is made in various countries.


There was a tumblr post anons used to link to that showed the different Asian countries it was made in, but I didn't save the link. Pretty sure you can look it up if you really want to, though.

[Anonymous No.10063164]

>>10063126
>B-but Japanese lolitas!!

Was I talking about Japanese lolitas? No. I remember how happy everyone was when Bodyline offered international shipping and started broadening their horizons. Whether Bodyline considered itself a lolita shop or not doesn’t matter, for a time they offered incredibly affordable blouses and shoes and other basics, of passable quality.

When Taobao became envouge no one ever piped up about the quality, before it was “its a bit cheaper than brand but still nice”. Now you’re all in this thread acting like Taobao is worse than milanoo.

The more popular something becomes, the more a majority of voices on cgl will hate it.

[Anonymous No.10063166]

Both brand and taobao can have their ups and downs, in the case of taobao I have a feeling people overexaggerate too much on the worst parts. They probably either never bought anything but just saw an ugly memedress and thought everything is the same or just had a bad experience overall.
I like both.
I won't pretend some chinese sweatshop worker's dress is on the same quality of a japanese one but I also won't pretend that a japanese dress folded over 1000 times is always going to be the absolute law, like there is absolutely no way that a japanese brand can fail.

[Anonymous No.10063169]

>>10063164
Nobody ITT said taobao is worse than milanoo though. It's just worse quality than brand and anyone who denies that is in denial.

Also, people's standards change as accessibility grows. The average coord know looks a lot better than the average coord in 2006 or even 2010. Lolita is a lot cheaper now. What was considered good back then might be considered meh or even ita now and the same goes for quality

[Anonymous No.10063172]

>>10063164
>>10063106

Anon. You're in a containment thread. The Bodyline thread is also a containment thread.

The threads are created because the rest of the cgl lolitas don't worship Bodyline and don't want it in the lolita general. Same as this situation now. Otherwise we'd be talking about whatever Bodyline is up to in the lolita general the same way burandos and other indies are, but it's in seperate threads because it's actually not that popular and cgl lolitas don't actually want to hear about it.

my god, to give yourself the exact same situation and not realise both times you're being put in containment threads.

[Anonymous No.10063174]

>>10063172
What are you even talking about? This whole taobao debate didn’t exist until literally two lolita generals ago. Before that there was no need for a containment thread on the ethics of Taobao. But now there are certain anons who can’t even handle the mention of a Taobao thread in the lolita general because it threatens them somehow. I’m just saying this debate is ridiculous and brand new.

[Anonymous No.10063205]

>>10063152
No, some of the recent releases are even made in Japan. Usually the prints are made elsewhere though.

[Anonymous No.10063206]

>>10063149
Okay, but your reviews point out exactly the things I don't like about taobao. Inaccurate pictures and changes on the actual dress.

[Anonymous No.10063207]

>>10063174
It's been a thing for a while now, it just was not dragged out in the open until recently. Some of us have been discussing it since the first re-release of Nameless Poem which would have been (checks) 2014.

I don't think it's a dead horse if people are still unaware of the debate but this is definitely a containment thread and outside of maybe a small handful of really good things, most of us HAVE realized that much of taobao lolita is poor quality.

It's not Milanoo tier but I can't really say it's any better than Bodyline tier either from the dresses I've seen in person. Are some of the print concepts interesting? Sure. But the quality is just not there in the majority of the main piece print items.

[Anonymous No.10063211]

>>10063174

That's how containment threads are created. Most people will tolerate some minor discussion of a subject they don't like if it's quickly over and done with, which is why we didn't need one before even though a lot of lolitas didn't like Bodyline nor taobao since forever ago. But when the debate starts shitting the general up they get split off and told to have their own thread.

I guess I'm old but if you don't remember the replica debate containment threads then can you really talk like you know how it works?

[Anonymous No.10063430]

>>10063211
ntayrt but it doesn't matter.

Taobao will be in the general again soon. This is just the flavor of the week argument.

[Anonymous No.10063431]

>>10063109
you say this but anons on cgl love repeating memes like "sorry you got posted" and will all easily jump on any side of the argument that will get more replies.

[Anonymous No.10063436]

>>10063126
>They were marginally tolerated budget alternatives (often referenced as "for poorfags and fatty-chans")
that's just on cgl.

[Anonymous No.10063564]

>>10063436
No one said it in those blunt of terms outside of cal but it was strongly implied and if fattys or the poors complained about cost, sizing or both, then it was common to suggest Bodyline, custom or taobao. There’s even less financial reason now with used brand being so much easier and cheaper to get these days. I’m frankly glad few brands have caved in very much in larger sizing, a few do but I guess that’s inevitable.

[Anonymous No.10063589]

I buy things from Taobao every now and then but generally prefer burando.

My main gripes are
1) Choice of material: I have no idea what kind of chiffon and satin/sateen Japanese brands use, but they are less flimsy than the materials used by Chinese brands and less sheer (or shiny in the case of satin/sateen).

2) False advertising: Sometimes the item received will have different lace or are a slightly different color than depicted in stock photos (looking at you, Infanta and another brand I can't remember). Reviews and photos from other customers are helpful, but they’re not available if you preorder obviously.

Brands that I would recommend
1) Akane and Alois: Shout out for using natural fabrics! Though as a disclaimer, I have only owned 1 item from them and wound up selling it because the sleeves were a little too short, but that was my fault.

2) R Series: No complaints about the materials and their stock photos are fairly accurate. I have only bought dresses so I can’t speak for their other items.

[Anonymous No.10063592]

>>10063564
>fattys or the poors
when you speak like this is says a lot about how you are as a person.

[Anonymous No.10063609]

>>10063430
I don’t mind people wearing taobao, I just get tired of it being pushed forward as something ‘just as good as brand’ when only a handful of exceptional pieces have ever been. At least these threads will be in the archive for when people search taobao quality , and the excuse of ‘well no one said it was lower quality’ can also be put to rest.

We asked for specific examples of specific taobao brands that are as good as the Japanese brands and the conclusion is that there really aren’t any. Then someone asked for just a list of the individual taobao dresses that were comparable to Japanese brand. No one made it. Case closed.

[Anonymous No.10063611]

>>10063592
Those terms are usually only used to refer to a specific kind of whiny person in either category who fuss about the fashion, expect spoonfeeding, cry when their subpar coord is deemed ita, cry about ‘muh condishun’ or ‘muh budget’ etc. Overweight or economically disadvantaged people who make the best of their situation (as we all do in life if we aren’t spoiled wretches) are rarely referred to in those terms.

[Anonymous No.10063640]

>>10063152
When a piece is it says so on the tag anyways.

[Anonymous No.10063641]

>>10063640
Also pretty much every other big brand also.

[Anonymous No.10063643]

>>10063641
All of Baby's cotton dresses are still being made in Japan, it's just their chiffon and accessories that are not.

[Anonymous No.10063645]

>>10063589
Seconding Akane and Alois, I have one OP from them and it's nicely sewn, has good fabric, and has a flattering fit.

[Anonymous No.10063657]

The only Japanese Brand that fits me is old Moitie, so why waste my precious money on any jap Brand made for fatties if I can buy Moitie AND some average XS Chinese brands for 30usd for daily usage?

There's simply no Goth brand as worth as Moitie in Japan. So I stick to it and Chinese like Krad for my daily Goth Lolita Needs.

[Anonymous No.10063659]

>>10063564
>used brand being so much easier and cheaper to get these days
Yeah, try getting 2nd hand Moitie.
So easy
Much cheaper
Wow.

[Anonymous No.10063660]

>>10063659
>can't get Moitie
>settles for Chinese garbage
wew

[Anonymous No.10063667]

>>10063641
>>10063640
I recently when through all my dresses and blouses and recorded what country they were made in. Almost everything that had a country listed said China. And this was all brand stuff.

However, the majority of items didn't have a "made in ___" label in English that I could read. I can't read Japanese so I don't know where those items are made.

So, the majority of brand items with a made in label in English = made in China

Could be the ones without a made in label have it in Japanese and are made in Japan, I have no idea.

[Anonymous No.10063670]

>>10063667
If you post pics, anons can read it for you. I can identify most countries they put on the label, with the most important one being 日本 (Japan) . It's usually at the bottom of the label with the fabric types with percentages.

[Anonymous No.10063671]

>>10063657
"old moitie" means nothing for sizing anon. i had a 2003-4 moitie dress that was big on me and i'm pretty average sized

[Anonymous No.10063676]

>>10063659
Again, in general terms, and you as a tiny Moitiefag are the exception.
Many Japanese brands are quite plentiful on the second hand market but yes, Moitie not so much and more expensive though there is some and I’ve seen it.
Also from what I have read, most of Krad is some of the better stuff from taobao, again an exception to the rule of the general lower quality of lolita brands sold via taobao in general.

[Anonymous No.10063681]

>>10063667
>>10063640
>>10063641


http://rainedragon.tumblr.com/post/121791620634/where-brand-was-made-baby-verus-ap-part-1-jump-to
http://rainedragon.tumblr.com/post/121791753899/where-brand-was-made-baby-versus-ap-part-2-jump-to

[Anonymous No.10063682]

>>10063659
>My one hyper specific example disproves this argument

[Anonymous No.10063684]

>>10063681
I miss her blog so much. Why did she leave?

[Anonymous No.10063687]

>>10063684
I don't think she's left Lolita, I just think she's got real life things she's been doing. She's also a lolibrary dev, and she's been handling that in her free time rather than blog.

[Anonymous No.10063720]

I like taobao. Most of the decent non-print dresses are durable enough and I don’t have to worry about it as much since it’s cheap. I just toss it in the washer like my bodyline dresses. Brand dresses are a pain to clean and it’s stressful to worry about any drips or spills on the dress. Plus, brand is getting huge. I bought an AATP skirt from 2010 thinking it would be alright since there was corset lacing, and I was still swimming in it. I still buy new AP but some of the dresses look comical on me. Taobao’s sizing is much better if you’re under 60cm waist.

[Anonymous No.10063723]

>>10063611
You sound like a fucking asshole

[Anonymous No.10063765]

I hate how overly shooped taobao stuff is. It always ends up looking different irl, that's why I'm not buying into it anymore.

An exception are accessoires and headdresses for me, which I do get from taboabo from time to time.

[Anonymous No.10063830]

>>10063149
>I am really sick of the garbage that resellers like devilisnpired pick up, because they are low quality and give Taobao as a whole a bad name.
agreed. I feel they just want to sell lolita cheap to noobs but still overprice shit so they end up with only crappy brands, and this counts for many resellers.

Brands has some pro's over TaoBao, like consistency, accuracy, reputation, etc., but the better brands aren't bad even when they have cons over brand. But with many newbs using resellers only, or only going to brands they know from there, they do seem to make up the general image of TaoBao. The nicer stuff is above fast fashion, but below the better JPN brands quality. It's not the hot mess people make it.

[Anonymous No.10063839]

>>10063830
The nicer stuff is still the exception on taobao rather than the rule and even if as much as 20% of the taobao stuff is 'ok but still below brand quality', that's not really such great stuff and that leaves 80% as pure garbage.

Do you think noobs can tell the difference much? Then combine it with what >>10063765 said about the photos so often being photoshopped/different from what you actually get, it's still really a very small bit of taobao that's actually any good for this fashion.

If you are someone with a real eye for something good, then I think you can do ok but for most people, the problem is that I don't think they are so good at judging. So they end up wasting money AND still looking bad.

I also noticed that many lolitas are too embarrassed to admit a mistake and cut their losses and just get rid of something inferior quality or unflattering or badly fitting too. Not good.

[Anonymous No.10063922]

I'd say taobao requires a bit more work, since you need to research to ensure that the shop you're buying from is legit and has good quality products, but if you know what you're doing it can be comparable to brand, you just need a bit more time and energy.

[Anonymous No.10063947]

>>10063922
But isn't it the same with Japanese Brand? I mean, there are some names already established, but other than these, you have to check before buying anything that does not fall under the label of AP, btssb, Jetj etc. people forget that "taobao brand" means 827412837646 shops that use that platform, and so does when you say "Japanese Brand".

[Anonymous No.10063949]

>>10063922
Krad and Ista Mori are the only ones of even the good taobao shops that haven't had mixed reviews on quality as far as I know. If that's not correct, please feel free to name the others. All along, people have been asking for a list of known good sellers or failing that, even reliable main pieces but no one can give it yet. Even in the less known Japanese brands or the more iffy ones, people can produce a good list of the hits and misses. Or point out the good things from the wtf items.
That's the point, you can't with taobao because 99% of it is very hit/miss. But stupid people still throw their money, believe the photo, get the shit quality item then stubbornly refuse to admit the mistake. They just won't just wake up and swear off the cheap bargain kool-aid. It's very much a waste of time and money in all but a very few instances.

[Anonymous No.10063951]

There can be some good stuff on Taobao but gothic can get tasteless there quickly. I saw dresses using the same sheer shitty spiderweb fabric you'd see in the fabric store during Halloween and waist belt "corsets" that make the entire dress look like it's from the clearance rack of Hot Topic.

As always, it's the taste of the buyer that it boils down to in the end, because you can truly find some solid pieces or you can look cheap and ita. I'm aware you can look ita in brand, but it's easier to look that way when you're using shit materials to dress your shit taste.

[Anonymous No.10063953]

>>10063951
Either the taobao shopping lolitas with decently good taste are holding out on sharing the sauce or it's just a few unicorn dresses from a couple of brands that are known good. Not sure which.

[Anonymous No.10063954]

>>10063953

Because the decent shit isn't usually the main event. It's usually found in accessories, shoes, and the occasional blouse.

[Anonymous No.10063956]

>>10063949
>feel free to name the others
I have Miss points pieces and they're really good. The material is sturdy, the pleats are even and the construction fits me perfectly

I have on dress from Classical puppet and, while I agree their pricing is ridiculous, the quality is awesome. I could match them with my Jetj dresses when talking about fabric quality.

I also do recommend Yidhra and Resailan tights. Mine have more than 3 years of intense use and no cracking on the gold pieces, no fading.

I also happen to have a bunch of blouses from normie/mori shops around Tmall and they have a soft and light cotton that's perfect for summer.

Ecailles de Lune dresses (I have 2) are also pretty good constructed. They're full lined, no uneven seams. The fabric is lightweight (I prefer it that way because of the heat) but the print, unfortunately, is printed on a light crepe, and it makes it a bit less bright than I would hope.

I have one sweet dress from Simotsuya Sakuya (something like that) - that with constellation - and I don't see problems with it. I washed it on machine and the glitter and gold stars are still on place. No problems with the construction either.

I have one only skirt from Krad, and it's good, you already said it.

I also happen to have two dresses from Surface spell, and their velveteen is awesome. They don't fade are fairly easy to use. The fitting is my favourite part, as they make custom sizing and it got perfect for my body.

I have one detective set from MIWAKO, and, let me say it, the wool (not sure if that's the correct word in English) they used for the pleated skirt is better than the ones used my Victorian Maiden's dresses. I have two cotton blouses from them and they're good too.


I definitely don't recommend soufflesong, though. I bought once from them and they're shit.

(1/2)

[Anonymous No.10063957]

>>10063949
>>10063956
(2/2)

Anyway, I have a lot of Japanese and Chinese pieces on my Wardrobe. The thing is that I don't really feel motivated to defend brands randomly on the internet as I won't be getting anything out of that?

I don't care if people think that Taobao is Shit and Angelic Pretty should be glorified as the ultimate lolita brand. That definitely changes nothing on how I deal with the fashion and how I use it.

I made these reviews above on the Chinese pieces I like the most on my wardrobe, but there are a bunch more that's good quality, you just have to search and experiment. Also, there are a bunch of blog reviews on the internet about Taobao pieces. If you really are interested about them, just go asking around or searching for it.

But if you only desire to maintain your ignorance and keep on shouting that "only krad is nice on Toabao reeeee", well, that's entirely on you.

[Anonymous No.10063960]

>>10063957
No need to be so defensive. I bet my ass you don't even own any brand piece. Sorry you're a jelly pooooooorfag

[Anonymous No.10063962]

>>10063960
>No need to be so defensive
>jelly
>Poorfag
wat

Anon, just go outside and celebrate holidays with your friends and family. You're clearly in need of some real fun and love in your life.

[Anonymous No.10063963]

>>10063956
Thank you very much. I realize it didn't benefit you but it can benefit the fashion in general if people can read posts like yours and I appreciate them.

>>10063960
Shut up, she gave reviews and compared one thing to JetJ she owns and also compared something else to her VM dress.
Can you read?

[Anonymous No.10063965]

>>10063956
>>10063957
Thanks for these reviews, good hearted anon.
A girl in my comm does have one of Miss Point vests and it has a pretty good quality. If I'm not mistaken that brand makes more Otome than Lolita pieces, but it's nice to know that we can trust them at least regarding the material and construction.

[Anonymous No.10063993]

>>10063957
>you just have to search and experiment.
Why exactly would we waste our money doing that? I'd rather buy from a brand with a reputation and accurate pictures.

[Anonymous No.10064009]

>>10063993
Tell me which taobao brand hurt you, anon.

[Anonymous No.10064016]

>>10063993
Nayrt but you sound either like a newbie in this fashion or a crossboarder.

It's fairly easy to buy pieces from Taobao and resell it later for a higher price if you don't like it. You don't even have to scalp, just put it at a value under mylolitadress and it will sell.

If you don't have enough money to even try a cheap piece from Taobao, then I guess this isn't the fashion for you.

[Anonymous No.10064020]

>>10064009
Nayrt but it was soufflé song. *points on the doll where they fucked my ass with their cheapness*.

[Anonymous No.10064060]

>>10064016

>mfw I made $100 profit off of nameless poem because the original creator stopped selling it and the only other source for this stupid dress was spreenow

For a while until I sold some really sought after brand stuff that was probably the highest margin I had. Brand could never sell with quite a high a margin as taobao because people don't appreciate quality and go for memes instead, sadly.

[Anonymous No.10064096]

>>10063956
>I definitely don't recommend soufflesong, though. I bought once from them and they're shit.
Didn't they get featured during fashion week or was that a different taobao brand??

[Anonymous No.10064136]

>>10064016
I sound like a newbie because I don't want to buy from taobao? Okay anon.
Only the flavor of the month taobao might have resale, don't act like it all does.

[Anonymous No.10064138]

>>10064096
I'm sorry, I don't know, anon. I've bought their Choosing JSK on the first preorder and the quality is so bad that I regretted buying it the moment I opened the box. The fabric is exactly like plastic, the black is actually a dark green, the fitting is ridiculous and, even though it's a JSK, the fabric is not thick enough to hide a blouse without getting the buttons and ruffles all marked over the bodice.

I've also seen that Arabian Nights print they have on a friend's skirt, and the quality was just as bad.

Another brand I should talk about is To Alice. I've seen some people buying their Lolit Pieces and I definitely wouldn't recommend. The fabric is thin and that's ok, but the construction is very bad. Some dresses listed as lolita don't have enough room for petti, and the Shirring doesn't look good if you have smaller measurements. Their normie pieces are wonderful, though. I have some skirts and hoodies for normie daily usage and it's definitely worth.

Diamond Honey is a much better choice in place of ToAlice if you're looking for sweet pieces. Their fabric is cute and their blouses are as good as Infanta's.

Don't forget Dear Celine, which has some nice wool pieces and most of their non printed dresses are very good quality. I have one that is an imitation of Tweed and three blouses that I absolutely love

[Anonymous No.10064143]

>>10064138
>Diamond Honey
no... the fabric they use for their dresses is literal garbage tier, please don't recommend them. Dear celine is alright though.

[Anonymous No.10064150]

>>10062961
>Supporting China's economy and terrible governmental policies is not something I want a part of if it's avoidable
Hahahahaha, this fucker. You already did it, I bet half of the things you own come from China, your precious burando included.

[Anonymous No.10064193]

>>10064150
Oh look, it's the anon that can't read again.

[Anonymous No.10064336]

>>10063160

These include other countries that also exploit their workers, usually to a larger extent because the cost of labor is cheaper. Barring that, the fact you’re willing to overlook that means that you don’t actually care if companies support unethical labor or not, you just want to shit on taobao. There are ways of doing that without going “muh ethical labor” because honey, labor sourcing is one of the nastiest things you’ll ever dig into if you investigate any company enough.

[Anonymous No.10064357]

>>10064143
>the fabric they use for their dresses is literal garbage tier,
Which dress have you seen from them, anon? I tried only that gingham non printed dress and the fabric was ok, although not awesome. I'm guessing you mean the printed pieces?

[Anonymous No.10064358]

>>10064357
yep, their printed pieces are trash

[Anonymous No.10064369]

>>10064358
That's good to know, thanks for sharing.

I own mostly non printed pieces, so I guess the chances of screwing fabric up are a bit smaller. I'll have to think a little about that and compare my pieces here.

[Anonymous No.10064484]

>>10064096
Yes, they were featured during fashion week

[Anonymous No.10064528]

>>10064193
It can't be avoided tho
Cry more

[Anonymous No.10064532]

>>10064138
>I don't know
Yeah you sound like someone who doesn't know
>the fitting was terrible
That's your problem.

[Anonymous No.10064547]

>>10064532
>>10064528
>>10064484
samefag that can't even bait properly. From your answers I can only guess your wardrobe is full of SoufflèSong.

[Anonymous No.10064548]

>>10064138
>I've also seen that Arabian Nights print they have on a friend's skirt, and the quality was just as bad.

Good to know, I loved the print and was thinking of maybe buying the dress at some point... but I had already heard bad things about their quality, so I'll just discard the idea.

So uhm, I'm not particuarly against taobao but am I the only one who thinks their blouses look terribly cheap? I have never owned one so I might be wrong, but most of the time they are 100% polyester and look almost transparent... I mean even Bodyline makes blouses with cotton blend that are not see-through.

[Anonymous No.10064576]

>>10064548
>but am I the only one who thinks their blouses look terribly cheap
>but most of the time they are 100% polyester

It depends on where you buy them, anon. The cheapest are polyester, but it is possible to search for 100% cotton pieces, specially on stores dedicated to Mori / vintage / nanchatte styles.

I don't know what style you like, but try searching Aurora and Ariel, for an instance. They have some country blouses made of cotton mixed with polyester, for example.

I can't remember any other brand by heart right now, but I'd suggest you to search using the words "cotton blouse female" or "vintage style cotton blouse" on the search bars for more results. Also, sort the items for popularity instead of price.

[Anonymous No.10064583]

>>10064547
Nope and I have mostly brand, AP specifically. I don't have any soufflesong actually. They were featured at fashion week for a reason and just because anon is claiming they got bad pieces doesn't make it so.

[Anonymous No.10064587]

>>10064548
>>10064576
Here are some normie stores for you to look at https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.182.30163f96lR3z9a&id=558216180566&ns=1&abbucket=2

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.156.c5d632achv36G6&id=566671112986&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.201.2f3b6f22WdQouS&id=581169505564&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail

https://slxi.taobao.com/?spm=2013.1.1000126.3.kT65Iq

https://bjts.world.taobao.com/shop/view_shop.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.y12s5a&user_number_id=54951170

[Anonymous No.10064626]

>>10064576
That blouse looks cheap too though. Look at the bows and sleeves.

[Anonymous No.10064657]

>>10064587
>>10064576
Thanks for all those links, anon! I happen to wear Mori too, so these will surely help. I'll let you know the things I decided to buy back on the Taobao Thread.

Also, I have that AA blouse on pink and it's really soft against the skin! The fabric is a light cotton, and the small ribbons are the only polyester on it.

[Anonymous No.10065420]

>>10064583
The reason was that a collective initiative to push Chinese manufacturing bought a space at fashion week hoping to attract investors. That’s literally how fashion weeks work. They are for-profit endeavors and they charge all but the largest brands who are the main draws.

The people who make soufflé song are more out to attract foreign investors than they are a ‘lolita fashion brand’ Just look at their website. There is a whole section dedicated to it.
And the ‘ero lolita’ section is literally tacky lingerie.

[Anonymous No.10065493]

Pfft, plainly speaking, Tao-bao is just a cheap goods mall. Why cry when some of us don’t shop in these places normally? Why expect us to shop for lolita there either or even learn or know about this or that brand there? I’ll probably never even open the webpage.

Anyone can buy whatever they like there but then don’t cry when no one else cares for the brand, the print, anything. To many of us, it’s not that much different from Ali Express cheap stuff or buying cheap shit from China on eBay. And same huge amount of bootleg stuff in many taobao shops as usual, even ripping off other Chinese brands that were not so great to begin with.
Who is surprised

If you like taobao stuff just wear it and enjoy it, no one is stopping you. But quit crying that other people don’t ‘respect’ your cheap Chinese e-mall shit.

If a taobao brand cares enough to rise above that reputation then let them do something notable within the fashion like the Moitie x Krad collab. I noticed that because it is something better than just opening a storefront at a Chinese e-mall. I won’t buy it still because there is plenty of better Moitie by itself, but it’s an example at least.

[Anonymous No.10065548]

>>10064016
>Not wanting to throw away money on cheap Chinese garbage means you're poor and new

[Anonymous No.10065608]

>>10065548
They won’t get it anon, they drank the cheapie Chinese brand kool-aid and to admit otherwise would mean to admit their wardrobes aren’t really up to par, plus they are still too cheap to buy brand now.
Much easier to try and make excuses to just keep doing it.

I don’t care if someone wears taobao but it’s pretty embarrassing when they speak about the prints and the brand and the quality like it isn’t just some budget alternative.
Never ask a taobao-chan about her dress.

[Anonymous No.10065614]

>>10065608
>>10065493
>quit crying that other people don’t ‘respect’ your cheap Chinese e-mall shit.
But no one is saying that, really.
The only kind of people I see is people like you calling Taobao shit. No one cares if you think like that, and no one is trying to convert anyone.

Buy Japanese if you like, buy Chinese if you like.

The only favourable answers here to Taobao were with reviews. No conversions. No one trying to force anyone to wear those things.

You all are too paranoid with Taobao and keep on bringing this up all the time.

Also, nice samefag.
>>10065493
>>10065548
>>10065608
The poster number didn't went up since this morning.

[Anonymous No.10065616]

>>10065614
multiple people can post about how taobao is terrible

[Anonymous No.10065621]

>>10065616
Are you so afraid of the Chinese releases to the point of wasting your time commenting negatively against a thing that you don't even wear or (supposedly) own on a thread that was dead already? geez anon, go live a happy life, you're in desperate need of love.

[Anonymous No.10065623]

>>10065621
where did that come from? i am very happy and loved, and have a closet full of brand and a bit of taobao. that doesn't change the fact that multiple people can post about how taobao is terrible, or your long ass post here >>10065614

[Anonymous No.10066338]

>>10063949
>please feel free to name the others
I also have a list of stores that are lower quality but wearable, from which I buy for daily where if I like the design enough. I also have a list of brands I want to try, and most likely fall into either recommend or the lower quality but wearable category. I don't own all these brands, but I had a well enough look at them irl to judge.

Recommend:
>Amastacia
>Surface Spell Classic
>Surface Spell Gothic - quality is good, but slow owner so it takes ages to arrive
>PennyHouse - nice shoes, dunno about clothes
>Aurora&Ariel - great petticoats, dunno about clothes
>Boguta - for hoopskirts only

Not recommend:
>Souffle Song - pure crap
>Red Maria - cheap materials and bad construction
>Diamond Honey - Cheap crap living purely on popularity of prints
>ToAlice - their fast fashion is ok for fast fashion, but their "lolita" seems even below that.
>Miss Point - quality has lowered a lot, crap customer service, also don't try the custom sizing.
>织锦园/Brocade Garden - most items are bad. A few are ok for padding wardrobe for casual wear, but nothing outstanding and if you need to ask you probably won't tell ok from horrible crap.
>AnTaiNai - uncomfortable and low quality shoes. Your feet deserve better.
>Infanta - quality went downhill, older pieces used to be better
>Boguta - for anything but hoopskirts
>Dream of lolita - cheap replica makers

A few other (general) notes:
>Classical puppets - petticoats went down hill so wouldn't recommend those. They also aren't really a lolita brand anymore and went doing their own (cool) thing. Some items can work well in lolita, but if you need a list like this it might not be the best place to buy. Also, severely overpriced. But beside that they're fine.
>Krad is overrated. it's wearable but not the best quality.
>Same for R-series. it's wearable, but overpriced and customer service is shitty.

I'm still waiting on a few TaoBao pieces, might be able to add more later.

[Anonymous No.10066365]

I dont understand where anyone ever got the idea that taobao brands are just as good as burando because they aren't at all. I have some ap and the rest is taobao bullshit.
Been interested in the fashion for years, and now that i got a better job i can afford the clothes. Never would disgrace myself with the "lolita at heart" shit either.
I wish with all my heart that i could fit into most burando but as someone who wants to be a daily lolita and has 15 inch shoulders and built like a fridge i simply cannot. I refuse to squeeze myself into most burando and i just have to work hard at finding things that fit me and look good. It takes time and im glad anons are giving recommendations because its really helpful. The reality though is "taobao brands" as they are commonly called are pretty trash lets be honest.

[Anonymous No.10066376]

>>10066365
Finally some honesty in this thread.

>>10066338
So to recap, 2 brands are OK to get dresses from, rest are trash. That’s kind of what we’ve been saying all along. ‘Wearable’ isn’t ok to be paying those prices for.

People need to quit drinking the taobao kool-aid. Lolita is at least a bit of a luxury fashion with somewhat pricy clothes and events.
Don’t cheap out, it kills the elegance.

[Anonymous No.10066619]

>>10066376
>2 brands
Surface Spell gothic and Surface Spell classic are technically 2 brands, owned by different people, having different ordering methods, with only thing they share is homepage and name. Just like how DHL express and DHL parcel are two companies that don't do stuff together.

>Lolita is at least a bit of a luxury fashion
No. As a hobby it's luxury to participate. But the term luxury fashion is a term used for brands that are a lot more expensive, and often enough, are shitty quality. Lolita is honestly still quite normal priced, even when buying new brand.

It's daily clothes to me. I just generally only wear the better ones to events. But even then OK brands are higher quality and more luxurious than fast fashion, else they're not OK. If they have nice design and good fit I still wear them.

Also, I never claimed all TaoBao was as good as brand, just because I gave a list I'm not on the "TaoBao is amazing like burando" side. Opinions don't need to match your own to be honesty. I'm one of the few who said it often isn't that amazing beside a few, but honestly I'm annoyed at both sides and the lack of quality understanding. There are also some brands I hear about but I have no experience with so I didn't mention them. My list isn't all knowing, so I dunno if it's really only two brands. Others have mentioned other names too.

I'm also annoyed how low quality brand is for its money, and at people acting like it's luxury brand and oh so expansive. Compared to fast fashion it is. But in general it isn't. You're not that special for buying a 300 euro dress, beside to fast fashion buying people who don't know shit about quality most of the time anyways.

[Anonymous No.10066623]

>>10066376
>So to recap, 2 brands are OK to get dresses from
says that anon that didn't bother to read the thread and is assuming that here is condensed all the knowledge about Chinese Brands in the world while believing that people are willing to preach about Taobao as if to convert her to wear it.

[Anonymous No.10066966]

>>10066619
As a hobby it's luxury to participate. But the term luxury fashion is a term used for brands that are a lot more expensive

I think this gets lost sometimes but is a very good point.

Still, not everyone can or will spend on this fashion so I also think that people who can't afford to attend nice events or meets in this hobby shouldn't complain or expect others to just make cheap meets to 'accommodate everyone' and I see that happening more now.

[Anonymous No.10066973]

I own a fuck load of brand and a fuck load of Taobao. To be honest, I have seen/ owned some brand pieces which I would not have been happy to pay even $100 for let alone the original RRP.

You can see a considerable drop in quality on any of the AP dresses which have been outsourced to China for production. So at that point you really are paying for the brand name.

Personally I prefer a lot of Taobao to Japanese brands as the Taobao brands offer a much wider range of design. AP recently has been shitting out the same stuff with minor alterations for the last few years which is boring for me. All of my oldschool pieces however are stunning. Construction, fabric, lace - everything. That I would say is far beyond Taobao quality. But at the moment I would say most brand is currently on par with the top Taobao brands.

>>10066619
Also this. For dresses sold at $300+ the quality on some of them is laughable.

[Anonymous No.10067022]

>>10066973
When did AP start the outsourcing? I'd be interested in looking for some older prints but most people don't list photo of the tag stating where they are made. Can you give some stand-out examples of the better quality ones and approximate the timeline of ' good' to 'gone to shit' for AP?

[Anonymous No.10067039]

Are most of the taobao brand garments, shoes and accessories made in China or someplace like Bangladesh? Tag check?
Even so, it's a growing problem that lots of cheap 'made in China' goods aren't even made there they are made in N.Korea. Or by N.Korean workers in China, paid very low wages. China isn't as straightforward with their country of origin or country of manufacture rules. Read up.

This isn't just about Lolita clothes sometimes, it's also a growing issue about people wanting to know where their dollars are going and what they are supporting in the larger picture.

[Anonymous No.10067107]

>>10067039
>Even so, it's a growing problem that lots of cheap 'made in China' goods aren't even made there
This. Places like Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Myanmar are much cheaper, and way worse quality when we're talking sweatshop and other way too cheap, underpayed methods.

>Are most of the taobao brand garments, shoes and accessories made in China or someplace like Bangladesh?
I don't know for most brands. I know from a few ones that they are made by small ateliers with well payed seamstresses. But then, I don't buy from the cheapest of cheap brands. It's kinda sad everyone reacts like everything in China is sweatshop and bad quality. Do they really think Chinese don't want nice stuff? Or that they really only import when they do? It's funny, most of China isn't nearly doing as bad as Westerners think and most people are living pretty normal lives. And China is pretty self-providing in pretty much anything, including clothes in all quality categories. Import stuff is just an extra status symbol because it's more expansive and harder to get so people who want to show off like it, but it's far from the only way to get decent stuff. I feel Western media is very twisted when reporting about China, giving a much more negative image. Like, there are huge problems political and economically, but it's not nearly as bad as people think.

[Anonymous No.10067124]

>>10067022
I believe the majority of pieces after 2010 have been outsourced to China for production. I can't give any good examples of piece comparisons personally as I dont own anything really new anymore. If you own a lot of brand though, I think Baby does a fair bit of outsourcing too now, so you could compare between them as well. AP conveniently left off a lot of their tags where the garment was constructed. But you should be able to compare between older and newer pieces, the construction and quality of fabric etc is no where near that of older pieces that were produced on smaller scales within Japan. For example, looking at 2 pieces from AP (both OPs one from 2002, one from 2010) its really small things that get skipped, such as the waist ties on 2002 OP are lined with fabric, where as 2010 is only a single piece. The 2010 OP lace has yellowed and the fabric has faded dramatically, but the 2002 OP is still white lace and very bright fabric. Its not a lot, but easy to see in the long run the older pieces will outlive the newer pieces.

I have seen a few articles in the past though on LiveJournal discussing quality differences between pieces made in Japan vs. made in China. But it would be good to get an exact comparison of an oldschool piece vs. a rereleased version that had been outsourced.