/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

It would be nice if anyone could translate pic related properly.

From an interview with Misako about her book:
>I often think it is difficult to wear Lolita fashion because my other job is nursing. So I can’t wear Lolita clothes when I work as a nurse, and I also don't have enough time to complete my ideal Lolita fashion collection. Although, I know that there are a number of girls who want to enjoy Lolita fashion 365 days a year, so I suggested the girlie and romantic “Soft Lolita”, which is a more casual Lolita fashion option. A good example of this is can be seen in “LARME”, the fashion magazine which is very popular among young girls who love kawaii. “LARME” shows many “Soft Lolita” styles. I want such girls to be interested in true Lolita fashion as well and to gradually come to wear Lolita clothes.
>>9519443

Soft lolita seems to be based on the idea of wanting to be cute and girly at school or work, but even Misako doesn’t use this term? Most recently in this video she calls that style casual lolita (in the last part):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Z58g1RAlk
>>9519446

I never bought Kera magazine so I only have neo lolita pictures from their recently launched webzine.

Rough summary from a fashion speech for an event in France, on neo lolita, Larme and AP:
>Thick fabrics are dropped for light, thin fabrics. Maybe not to decrease quality but to make it more casual and trendy. In 2008 AP started doing untraditional cuts like short skirts, sack dresses and overalls. AP designers are inspired by trends in Japan so they started using transparent fabrics while still considering lolitas shouldn’t show skin. But later they used Risa Nakamura with her shoulders showing. This was a big deal because it was the cover of APs lookbook so it represents the entire collection. Last year they released things that are again obviously trend inspired, with buckles, leather, lace-up. Larme kei is popular with a lot of lolitas and AP now uses main models from Larme magazine. The meeting point between lolita and Larme can be that it has a sweet side and dark/goth side. Does it mean showing shoulders and untraditional cuts are now ok in lolita, or is AP not so lolita anymore? Could AP be a model for a new lolita style? Neo lolita could be the meeting point of new trends with less rules, cute/childish but still elegant and inspired by old Western clothing.
>>9519449

RinRin doll quote from a blog post about neo subcultures:
>I like to mix up my style with Harajuku fashion, and I don’t feel I need to live my life exactly according to the rules of Lolita. There would still be a difference between Lolita and “Kawaii”-style though, for example we have a way of doing our eyemakeup which is more decorative, and a “princess-style” haircut (ie curls and bangs) is a must for me. The most important thing to be a Lolita among the Harajuku styles though, is to think of yourself as one. It would be great to see a subculture of cool neo lolitas appear from this.”
>>9519451

Similarities with lolita fashion: printed cutsews, printed tights, dolls, childish animals, frills, hime cut, chokers, make-up, headwear
>>9519456

Anons have complained that neo lolita looks age-play but I think it’s just more streetstyle and Larme inspired. Nymphet fashion and Larme happen to be popular right now and the young, girly, sweet but poisonous aesthetic appeals to lolitas. I think they also forget that Lolita doesn’t have the same meaning in Japan and that a fashion designer who is inspired by a Kubrick film doesn’t automatically want her clothes to be pedo bait.
>>9519457

>>9519451
Thats really interesting anon. What event was it and who was speaking?

>>9519522
The girl in the picture, Chloé

>>9519522
Where is that skirt from?
I found the video with english subs http://chiekoes.blogspot.nl/2017/01/youtube-fashion-talk-1-neo-lolita.html

>>9519522
Where is that skirt from?
You can find the video of her speech with English subtitles if you google chiekoes blogspot, I can't post the link because its seen as spam.

>>9519753
It's Angelic Pretty: https://lolibrary.org/items/ap-wonder-trip-regimental-skirt

>>9519446
Misako Is boss

Please keep it coming!
Really interested in becomnig a soft lolita and need some inspo

Here you go

>>9519816

>>9519818

>>9519820

>>9519823

>>9519795
Btw I don't think you can ''be'' a soft lolita the way you can be a gothic lolita. It's like saying you are a casual lolita and nobody says that.
>>9519826

>>9519443
Sorry for any mistakes, this is a little rough.
>About soft lolita
>Girls always want to dress in cute clothes, especially so for people who like lolita fashion. However, because of school and work, and various circumstances... . At these times the feeling that "I want to wear cute things!" can change lolita fashion, and we can enjoy "soft" through its casual mood.
>That style "soft lolita" is proposed in this book.
>It doesn't have a particular definition or relationship to brands. I think all dressing well such that "even though it's casual, I will be cute, girly, and won't forget my young girl's heart" is soft lolita. On the next pages, I pick some dresses as main pieces and explain coordinates matched with cardigans and cutsews. Although full volume panniers are essential to lolita fashion, in the case of soft lolita, you can wear one pannier or alter a petticoat to dress down. Otherwise, even not wearing one is alright.
>For footwear, it's nice to match with crew length socks and sandals. It's also stylish to use plain tights to further dress down. For accessories to liven up your coordinate, we choose thoroughly lovely pieces. Soft lolita is trendy and easy to get into to, so enjoy these arrangements of casual brands and items.

>>9519864
Thank you so much!

>>9519753
Thanks anon! Here's a link for those who don't feel like looking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX0kR58dzoI

I found it interesting that she said that Lolita fashion is declining in Japan. Is that really true? Or are Japanese lolitas less visible and mostly post online

>>9519458
I feel like some lolitas are so obsessed with not being seen as ageplay that they outright reject anything that seems even vaguely lolita-the-book inspired. I see this a lot when they come to shit up Larme threads. It's a knee jerk reaction to not wanting to be seen as wearing fetish wear, considering that's the reaction some have gotten from normies while wearing lolita. (Just see past Lolita stories/harassment threads) I'm kind of going on a tangent here but honestly lolita looks more outlandish to normies than any of this casual cute otome Larme nymphet stuff some rant against.

>>9519973
It's true that it's less visible but you could also say it was way more popular in the few years after kamikaze girls came out and before that when visual kei was more popular

I feel like a good marker of difference between neo lolita/soft lolita and "traditional lolita" is the era of influence. The former seems to pull from 1950s and 60s (even the 80s), whereas the latter pulls from much earlier historical eras. Of course there are exceptions to this, but that's what I see the most.

>>9520475
I think that's focusing on one style too much. Pic related can also be neo lolita according to this post: https://matome.naver.jp/m/odai/2142201148680556701
It's more about intend than anything

Girls be aware! First larme killed gyaru nearly entirely and now this forever21kei has also invaded Lolita and will try to kill it.

>>9520608
please, gyaru was dying since before larme was even a thing

>>9520612
>>9520608
Anon has a point though, gyaru died from being toned down by the magazines and just becoming nothing. If Lolita keeps expanding in this more casual direction on one side and ott only-for-tea-parties on the other it's at least gonna suffer some collateral damage

>>9520612
Gyaru died around 2012/2013 that's when the larme trend started to boom.

>>9520631
The soft or neo lolita style doesn't even look lolita to me anymore. Just like something you could buy at spreepicky

>>9520631
If that happens it's not because of neo/soft lolita being a thing, it's because people didn't buy from non-OTT brands. A lot of people don't even know Japanese lolita brands that focus on solid pieces and just bitch about how ''everything'' is OTT now without looking at the whole picture.

>>9520646
Does >>9519451 seriously look normie to you?

>>9520769
I want it in black

>>9520475
I agree with the generalization even though there are some exceptions like AP's 50's Diner themed stuff and LARME pieces inspired by medieval chemises.

Sort of unrelated, but do any of you remember when people would say that lolitas would "grow up and graduate" into gyaru fashion? Good times. Himegyaru was considered a halfway point between Lolita and gyaru. Now it's soft/neo Lolita as a halfway point between Lolita and LARME kei.

>>9520844
I don't remember that at all. That's really weird. I remember lolitas judging gyaru for looking trashy and gyaru looking down on lolitas for being weird prudes.

>>9520878
That happened, too. But there was also this insistence that lolitas graduate into gyaru. It was weird.

>>9520844
>Sort of unrelated, but do any of you remember when people would say that lolitas would "grow up and graduate" into gyaru fashion?
Like >>9520878, I don't remember anyone ever saying that, they were really different looks. By the time OTT lolita got similar enough to gyaru make-up for the comparison to make sense, people were aware of otome as a thing and people seemed to shift to that.

>>9519451
Cute/childish and sexy shouldn't be mixed together, it looks creepy most of the time and only strengthens normie's ageplay assumptions.

>>9520715
Yes it does. It looks like someone bought a random dress and wears a petti underneath. The dress itself looks like it has either been purchased at h&m, forever21, spreepicky or syndromestore.

The whole coord itself looks neither original nor special in any kind of way.

>>9520884
I'm a gyaru who graduated into lolita. Anyway the former koakuma ageha always feautured sweet lolita and hime lolita coords/models. So gyaru may've seen these lolita substyles also as substyles of gyaru.

>>9520907
I don't have to worry about what normies think so I bought some cute things from rosemarie seoir

>>9520912
That's an AP dress

>>9520914

>>9520915

>>9520913
I'm glad your strong sense of self-worth will prevent you from feeling hurt because I think Rosemarie Seoir looks creepy and nymphet.

>>9520913
>that's an AP dress
So what? I think we're all old enough to know that brands have made non lolita clothes before. And this dress clearly caters towards larme.

Tbh I don't know what nymphet fashion looks like. I just think the coords in this thread are really nice for days when it's too hot to wear lolita. Pic related is from Eternita.

And I can really mix it with my lolita clothes
>>9520960

>>9520961

>>9520961

They also have this with teacups and macarons
>>9520961

I mean, not everything rosemarie seoir does fits my style and my idea of soft lolita but they have some cute stuff
>>9520968

>>9520971

>>9520979

>>9520980

>>9520981
My rosemarie seoir dumpis finished

>>9520912
>>9520646
Not the anon you were replying to, but where the hell do you live where normies dress in the equivalent of soft lolita or even larme? In western countries the closest you get is what people where to church or weddings and even that's way off.

Also what HM and F21 sell is totally different from the clothing that's sold at spreepicky and other taobao resellers, I haven't seen anything in normie stores that comes close to soft lolita. Ive seen a few pieces that look like they could work for larme, himekaji, or onee gyaru a few times but otherwise its casual or sexy shit (trust me I've looked for years).

What is the actual style itt? I feel like people are dumping all sorts of random jfashion into one thread and trying to say its all related.

>>9520960
>Tbh I don't know what nymphet fashion looks like
The other lolita, AKA trying to look like the pop culture perception of Lolita as a seductive underage girl / clothes directly inspired by the aesthetic of the movie. It's creepy af.

>>9520992
I live in the northern part of Europe and recently it became more acceptable for girls to wear dresses again. They may not wear pettis, but since this neo lolita larme lolita whatever 'fashion' seems to not always require one I think it's pretty much the same.

At least for H&M I can tell that their divided branch is selling what is hip on tumblr and the things that are hip on tumblr are usually made up 'trends' by taobao resellers like spreepicky.

Also vintage fashion has a huge comeback at least in my country.

>>9521001
That's the point. It has no rules. Just read
>>9519446
>>9519451
>>9519456
>>9519864
And watch >>9519973

>>9521033
Tough I understand that I don't think I could recognise the aesthetic and I don't see it in this thread

>>9521077
High blush to look more orgasmic than innocent, red lipstick are popular. Use of fetish symbols like collars and other fetish elements like bondage gear and fishnets. Bedroom/lingerie materials like satin and sheers. Always heels. Shorter dress lengths. All of that give coords a sexual vibe but it's mixed in with cutsey/childish motifs like ribbons and bows. Nymphet does a lot of the same things. A lot of this thread is more on the otome side of things but some isn't.

>>9521087
Like, I see people say on here that mixing those kinds of elements with lolita makes it look ~mature~ and more normie-friendly, but in my experience, sexing it up doesn't make it look more normie friendly, normies just think you look like a porn doll, *especially* with any combination of heels + ankle socks + pigtails or whatever else.

I'm biased af because the look unnerves me but even the larme/neo-lolita looks I like give off this vibe, whenever my normie friends or family see them over my shoulder while I'm browsing online they comment on how it looks creepy/porny.

>>9521001
It's a casual style that's inspired by lolita or coorded with the feelings of a lolita. There's no rules or brands. It totally depends on the person.

I look for things that remind me of lolita and stuff that made me like lolita in the first place. Like lace, ruffles, cross straps, high quality, bows, alice in wonderland, aprons, peter pan collars, goth influence, knee socks, mary janes, stuffed animals and fairytales (for Rinrin I guess it's facial stickers, a hime cut and dolls). A lot of these things are considered immature by normies around me, but to me part of being a lolita is to not feel ashamed for liking the same things as when I was little. I know a guy who thinks any coord with knee high or tigh high socks looks like porn but that's his problem and I honestly couldn't care less.

I don't want to reveal as much skin as they do in some Milk coords or look sexy like some larme brands do but I can get something from them secondhand and wear it casually as soft lolita in my own way.

>>9521135

>>9521136

>>9521140

This is just my opinion but if you wear trousers or something really sexy it's crossing a line
>>9521141

>>9521047
Well you're lucky anon. Where I live (Midwest region of the US) that's not the case. Regardless, feminine normie dresses =/= soft/neo lolita. You still have to take hair, makeup, shoes, and accessories into consideration too

>>9521147
Even if they do wear that in Europe I don't see how that's something to complain about. The point of this thread was to discuss words for a non-lolita casual style.

>>9521152
Im confused, did you mean to reply to >>9521047 ? Also who's complaining?

>>9521147
I barely see any accesoires nor special hair/make in this thread.

>>9521152
Well, so far everything that has been posted I'd probably call it larme kei lolita or normie lolita. Some things that got posted don't even look lolita to me a single bit! It's really hard to define.

Eg these, don't exactly scream lolita to me, not even casual lolita. Just normie looking clothes.

Inb4 'where do you live that this is normie fashion to you' I live in a semi large city with lots of tumblr inspired fashionista teens and tweens (and where ppl think that kardashian insta selfi makeup is adequate to wear as everyday makeup, that's literally the other extreme)

>>9520914
>>9520971
>>9521135
>>9520979
>>9521136

>>9521173
It's not supposed to look like lolita. Then it would be lolita.

>>9521173
It's the intend that matters. Those coords have aprons, wristcuffs and cross straps. It's like lolita at heart but you acknowledge that you're not a lolita, or you are a lolita and you acknowledge that you're not wearing lolita that day. I don't know why you expect it to look like casual lolita? If someone was wearing casual lolita they could just call it that.

>>9521173
> I live in a semi large city with lots of tumblr inspired fashionista teens and tweens (and where ppl think that kardashian insta selfi makeup is adequate to wear as everyday makeup, that's literally the other extreme)

That doesn't make it normie, normie usually means mainstream. Tumblr fashion is still an alt/niche fashion.

(Pic unrelated, just wanted to contribute something)

>>9521177
Well OP was sking if the style was called either neo lolita or casual or otome, which would all be lolita related and would at least have a bit of the spirit.

>>9521185
>lolita at heart
I'm fairly new, but I've seen this phrase used as a meme to describe blatant itas?

>aprons, cross straps
So, dirndls are lolita? Because you wear an apron with them?

This style at best is a substyle of larme if it can even be considered as a style of it's own. Everything (nearly) posted in this thread is larme, or larme inspired and has nothing to do with what I think of when thinking about lolita or neo lolita or whatever.

In the gyaru comm someone tried to popularize the word 'neo gyaru' a view years back, not with the intention to kill gyaru just to find a word for their style, at the end this model said that her style has nth to do with the original gyaru at all. So, I'd be careful with calling sth 'neo'

>>9521198
>I'm fairly new, but I've seen this phrase used as a meme to describe blatant itas?
I've never actually seen anyone call themselves that unironically, but it means someone who doesn't wear lolita at all but identifies as a lolita or aspires to be one. Misako wants soft lolita to be like a stepping stone to them, and a casual style for real lolitas on days they can't wear lolita.

Maybe you can't see what attracts lolitas to these clothes because you're new. Maybe you should read up on the influences and origins before participating in a discussion about a new style related to it. Do you even know what she meant by cross straps?
There is a really popular IW dress inspired by drindls, so if a lolita wants to wear a drindl casually because it reminds her of her favorite IW dress that could be soft lolita in my opinion.

>>9521135
I can empathise with and understand your feelings and the way you put your outfits together. I guess the reason these coords rub me up the wrong way is that the elements they pull out to make something "lolita" are not what I'd wear with any of my lolita coords anyway or what attracted me to the aesthetic (pigtails, ankle socks, bows, aprons), and so slapping the label on it seems like a misuse of the word. Like how a lot of normies think lolita is all about dressing like a kid, and now there are a bunch of people going "here's a childish girly normie outfit, look, lolita!" And yeah, it's fine to like the same things you did when you were younger and want to incorporate that into your aesthetic, but that's not the be-all and end-all of what lolita is about so it seems misguided to me.

Then it also devolves into people acting lolier-than-thou because the things that attracted them to lolita are different to what attracted you, so you see people on /cgl/ saying that people who don't wear larme and otome on days they can't wear lolita are just cosplaying posers, even though they're completely different styles and the fact they're both girly doesn't mean any true lolita would like them all.

Essentially this is Rinrin describing her personal style, the rest is stuff we already have names for (larme, otome...)

It is true what anon >>9521198 said that one of the last death knells of gyaru was the rise of a "neo-gyaru" aesthetic that looked extremely normie and lacked most of the characteristic features of gyaru, until eventually the style faded away. I don't think people using the word neo-lolita is going to make the fashion die or lose it's true meaning, but I'd hate for AP to chase trends so hard they left lolita entirely.

>>9521233
Otome is essentially a dead style in Japan and I wouldn't use that to describe coords like >>9520916 or >>9519823 because that's not how otome kei is described in Westen guides. One of the nice things about lolita is that there are a lot of different styles so feel free to post your version of neo lolita or soft lolita. Whatever you may like, lolita fashion did get influenced by children's fashion and things that make girls nostalgic. It's fine if you don't relate to that part of lolita tough. I don't wear larme so idk but isn't it a magazine first and foremost? Meaning it's about the styling and not necessarily the brands? Pic related is from a magazine that focuses on lolita fashion.

>otome kei is made-up term
>what westerners wear as otome = soft lolita = casual lolita
>they all mean the same thing. lolita without all the rules.

This argument is fucking stupid. You don't like it because it is sexy/uses satin/heels/high blush etc.? then don't do it. mix whatever normie thing do you like with it and it's still soft lolita/casual lolita. You don't like all of lolita substyles too right?

Sweet lolita looks childish, gothic lolita looks like normie goth, classic is grandma kei, ero lolita is too sexy but we don't have a problem with them, why would there be a problem with soft lolita?

>>9520596
That looks pretty similar to clothes in the 1960s, but with a more flared skirt.

>>9521414
Look at the post

>>9521248
I know otome's not a term used by the Japanese, when I said "we" had terms to describe those styles I meant the Western community in general had it to use as a catch-all shorthand for girly styles put out by brands like ETC and MILK, instead of just saying "MILK's style". There are a lot of different styles of lolita but at some point it becomes too watered down and loses its distinction, and it's not necessary to slap the lolita label on it.

And which magazine is that? Eternita I'm guessing?

>>9521439
>I know otome's not a term used by the Japanese
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2002/05/24/language/japanese-women-staying-in-touch-with-their-inner-virgin/

>>9521087
High blush (病弱メイク) is supposed to make you look sick, and therefore weak and cute

>>9521511
Yeah ok m8, it's not something that's been in popular use now for a few years though, is it? That's why Google searching and looking up instagram/wear tags with it doesn't come up with the same sort of results as the Western definition.

>>9521523
In nymphet it's meant to make you look flushed with arousal, not sick.

>>9521523
Not all heavy blush is byojaku.

Good to see what I said >>9519978 coming out in full force in this thread. Ya'll so obsessed with this "ageplay" thing that you can't see that lolita looks even stranger to most people.

>>9521555
Some people just really hate having people make sexual assumptions, especially if they're related to paedophilia. I don't give a fuck if someone thinks I look like a giant frilly weirdo, but the mere thought of someone thinking I'm dressing like Dolores Hayes to appeal to pervy older men makes me want to vomit. I don't enjoy any of these recent bondage gear and whatever other bullshit tumblr trends and I don't get why anyone who wasn't a het exhibitionist would enjoy wearing them out, since they're guaranteed to make creepy men think you're dressing for them.

maybe I'm just repressed (I am super gay), but I'd genuinely rather have people think I'm some mentalist with delusions of being a doll thank think I'm openly looking for a sugar daddy

>>9521649
Some people still think lolita is a fetish thing. If you dress in any way out of the norm people are going to force their assumptions on you.

>>9521649
get over it. like seriously. if you're wearing Lolita outside, you just have to reconcile with the fact that you can't know/control anyones assumptions about you. Besides, who cares if some stranger thinks that you're dressing for men? YOU know you're not, and thats what counts.

>>9521672
I care because it directly increases the amount of people harassing me or making pervy comments to me, and I'll do literally anything to avoid that shit.

So it seems like it's only been about six months or a year since we all just collectively decided that "otome" isn't a thing anymore. I'm wondering why that happened? It still seems like a useful term for a specific fashion that western girls wear, even if the name is a Japanese misappropriation.

Also, I like soft lolita and I would consider otome looks to fall under that umbrella (as defined by Misako). Not sure if other anons agree with that.

>>9521649
You could do a more mature take on this style and take inspiration from adults vintage fashion. It's not like there's a rule that you have to wear puffed sleeves and high waisted dresses. Pic related is an example of a blouse that works and isn't the typical lolita blouse. You don't have to wear heavy blush or pigtails either.

I think these don't read as ageplay:
>>9519456
>>9519818
>>9519823
>>9520769

>>9521701
>I'm wondering why that happened?
1. the face magazine of the fashion (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive)) ceased publication in 2003, people slowly forgot about the fashion and it got a revival under new names
2. because the term is associated with visual novels these days

>>9521649
I guess I just don't see it. I don't see bondage or fetish gear in this thread. Maybe I missed something? The only coord with fishnets I see is a neo lolita x punk coord from Kera.

>>9521228
Oh, not new to the fashion, I mean new to the board.

I feel exactly like I feel when the neo gyaru threads were around. People are searching for excuses.
>there was a dirndl inspired iw dress so people can wear a dirndl casually and it'll count as soft lolita
Sorry, but no one would ever wear something like a dirndl casually? You can just wear lolita to your job then. It was a joke!

If there's no lolita aesthetic in these clothes there's lolita aesthetic in them. Over. They may look cute, I agree, you may even wear them as everyday fashion, but are they lolita? Are they even trying to give off a casual soft vibe of lolita? No!

I think we already have a term and style for stuff that people can wear everyday and it's called casual and usually includes pieces with an actual lolita cut most likely with less poof and not so much print.

And if we go back in the days, Lolita started as an everyday wearable fashion and only the 2007-10 era made it ott and people forgetting the roots of the style

>>9521905
nayrt but this can be the one spergiest comment I've seen on this board.

It's called soft lolita for a reason. It is softened lolita. If you can't see the lolita influence in this coords you must be blind.

>>9521905
The entire point of the thread is a style that is not actually lolita

>>9521649
Sugar daddies are not your worry, at least they would be rich enough to pay for more burando. Maybe I have no morals for thinking that, but it's true.
It's more the creepy otaku guys (you know the kind) who range from around 24-55 who dream of having a perfect kawaii submissive ~loli~ gf who will do nothing but just sit there look pretty unless she's touching his ween. More horrifying, they don't even have enough money to make it worth it.

>>9521649
These are my feelings exactly. I don't care if someone thinks I'm literally mentally ill for wearing lolita, but for some reason it really bothers me when the assumptions are sexual. I don't like being seen in a sexual way in normie clothes either, and part of the reason I gravitated to lolita as a teen was because of how it looks so feminine yet unsexy. Having guys come up to me assuming I'm covered in imported Japanese frills from head to toe to appeal to them sexually is fucking mortifying and I wish I could curse them so they could never speak to any woman that way again.

I don't really care what people wear on their own but I really resent it when girls wear 'kawaii' bondage gear and nymphet shit at our Jfashion meetups because even the most vanilla of normies recognise that as something sexual and that immediately paints our entire group as sexual deviants because why bother trying to distinguish between us when we all look weird? I notice we get so many more disgusting comments when we have our bondage-chans with us, but they're just as much directed at me.

>>9521709
Nayrt but I don't wear pigtails, heavy blush, high waists etc. in the first place yet this still happens. I like puff sleeves though, and I hate how I'd have to phase out fashion elements I enjoy just because they're associated with something sexual and oversexed creeps will make assumptions. Can't they just fuck off and keep their disgusting (and completely inaccurate) thoughts to themselves? Well, obviously not...

>savage for OT and personal issues

>>9521940
I honestly can't comprehend that what is your problem with soft lolita.

Most of sweet lolita already looks ageplayish, do you really think is it possible for a grown woman to wear a pink dress with teddy bear print and look innocent/non-sexual? Not trying to shit sweet lolitas or anything, it is just what normies think unless it's very mature classic/sweet.

SOME girls like to wear their soft lolita with pontails and high blush, you don't have to do the same to wear soft lolita.

>>9521905
>Lolita started as an everyday wearable fashion
Nope, it was weekend or live shows dress up

>>9521958
I think it's always wrong to say ''lolita started as…''. Yes it did start as something to wear to visual kei lives for a lot of lolitas, but it also started as their daily clothing style to a lot of lolitas. There are so many influences you can't just pick one and say that's what started lolita.

>>9519439
I like soft lolita and quasi lolita the best. They both imply that it's not real lolita, and they aren't invented by non-lolitas (does larme even use neo lolita? I've only seen it in kera). Plus the words soft and quasi sound more elegant than neo. I consider casual lolita to still be lolita so the ''rules'' somewhat apply. And whatever people may claim, otome kei does have some ''rules'' as well. Going to post some coord inspo.

>>9521983

I'm looking at the soft lolita tag on insta and it says three things to me
-''I'm not a lolita but I want to be one''
-''I'm a lolita but I'm not wearing it now''
-''I'm wearing lolita/casual lolita and I want to be efamous so I added a bunch of other tags''
>>9521986

>>9521991

>>9521993

>>9521994

>>9521997

>>9522002

>>9522007

>>9522009

>>9522012

>>9522022

>>9522023

>>9522024

>>9522025

>>9522026

>>9522027

>>9522026
Wow her hair looks greasy.

>>9521939
>Sugar daddies are not your worry, at least they would be rich enough to pay for more burando. Maybe I have no morals for thinking that, but it's true.
People like you, and the amount of age playing DDLG tumblr teens who wear nymphet and ero-kawaii shit while openly talking about their fetish, are exactly why I wouldn't want to wear anything that looked associated with that.

Some of us don't want the attention of disgusting men, no matter how rich they are.

>>9522111
Then I hope you don't wear lolita because if you do I have bad news for you...

I wish I could block everyone who mentioned nymphet or ageplay. This is why I hate cgl.

>>9521940
Your saying that you've toned down your outfits and still get catcalled? Have you tried wearing coords similar to Fanny Rosie's? Those look more vintage than what's been posted here. If that doesn't work for you then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should just stop wearing lolita and pick a jfashion that won't get you harrassed if nothing suggested works since it seems to bother you so much.

>>9521701

About six months ago some gull was persistently arguing that otome doesn't exist and therefore all otome brands were actually lolita brands. That didn't call themselves lolita, would never touch the GLB, let alone support it, and in the same way AP makes 10% miniskirts and salopettes for other fashion trends, "otome" brands make 10% loliable dresses, so they're therefore totes lolita. She also cites her sources as "the Japanese people" with no details, no screencaps, no nothing.

I spent one thread directing her to Olive and pointing her to whatever dead blogs I could find, but when she came back again and again every time cgl started up otome threads, I kinda got tired and noped out. I guess she just kinda persistently repeated everything over and over and over again until cgl bought it that otome never existed and was never its own fashion.

Also I don't know what is up with trying to argue that otome is really lolita.

Anyway, I'm trying to say I'm not really sure the whole thing wasn't some sort of bizarre social experiment. Maybe it really was just a noob who has one young-ish Japanese lolita friend who doesn't know otome used to be a thing. Maybe it was an idiot who thinks if she proved otome didn't exist she could sit with the lolitas in her ETC shorts.

>>9522133
Same. It's just a bunch of frilly bitches fighting over who looks weirder to normies.

>>9522187
You could have just posted a recent Japanese source about otome fashion instead of that ancient magazine scan from livejournal. Takemoto also wrote about otome girls, so is he an icon of otome kei now? I'm pretty sure he was writing to lolitas. See this video >>9511321 where Misako calls it casual lolita. I never cared about otome kei but it annoyed me that my ETC coords were labeled that by others, saying it was too matchy matchy or something when I wasn't even trying to wear otome kei. And nobody is trying to argue shorts are lolita. I think the general consensus is that otome is an outdated term and now they call it girlie fashion or girlie style. Anyway, I think this thread is about finding a term for coords that are not lolita, or use lolita clothes without rules, and we can all agree otome kei is not it.

>>9522126
Lolitas who are openly ageplayers are nearly always ostracised, nymphet fashion is actively about ageplay. That's the difference.

>>9522187
You could have just posted a recent Japanese source about otome fashion instead of that ancient magazine scan from livejournal. Takemoto also wrote about otome girls, so is he an icon of otome kei now? I'm pretty sure he was writing to lolitas as well. See this video >>9511321 where Misako calls it casual lolita. I never cared about otome kei but it annoyed me that my ETC coords were labeled that by others, saying it was too matchy matchy or something when I wasn't even trying to wear otome kei. And nobody is trying to argue shorts are lolita. I think the general consensus is that otome is an outdated term and now they call it girlie fashion or girlie style. Anyway, I think this thread is about finding a term for coords that are not lolita, or use lolita clothes without rules, and we can all agree otome kei is not it.

>>9522273
otome was supposed to be less matchy matchy and used more print mixing

>>9522187
this

I think a lot of problems with this comes from the fact that we don't have a lot of real information from japan, so we have to glean clues out of the few scraps we have--a few translations, interviews, and pictures.

>>9522295
>otome was supposed to be less matchy matchy and used more print mixing
I'm saying it was annoying that they criticised my coord for being too matchy matchy even though I've never attempted to wear otome kei

>>9522270
But the issue here is that anons are claiming that the soft and neo lolita stuff brought up in this thread is nymphet fashion when it's not.

>>9522642
No-one's saying soft lolita (AKA Misako's style) looks nymphet, the criticism is levelled at Rinrin's bullshit neo-lolita and the larme coords being posted.

>>9522682
Nayrt but can you tell me exactly which coords?

>>9521991
>"I'm wearing lolita/casual lolita and I want to be efamous so I added a bunch of other tags''

kek, so true. I was just thinking about this while scrolling through the larme kei tag on insta.

>>9522007
This is so cute

>>9522111
I don't think anon was saying she had a sugar daddy or openly talked about that sort of thing in public, anon

>>9522168
Sadly if anon lives in a place where catcalling is common, it's going to happen whether she wears extremely outlandish jfash or ill-fitting sweats. Which is why you should just wear whatever the fuck you want

>>9522689
>I don't think anon was saying she had a sugar daddy or openly talked about that sort of thing in public, anon
Lots of "nymphets" do though, the DDLG boom on tumblr has created hordes of teenage embarrassments.

>>9522187
Thanks anon, this is exactly the kind of response I wanted when I posted that. I remember the otome threads being pretty good by cgl-standards for a long time and then suddenly going to shit around that point. I don't get what that anon wanted either. I still like otome anyways, it just seems weird that suddenly there was this giant shift from it being accepted as a fashion western girls wear to it being "just lolita", especially when it had its own look and rules. Weird shit.

>>9522187
Is otome a more outdated way of thinking of "soft lolita"? I'm confused by otome brands being Schrödinger's lolita.

The brands like Jane Marple, Milk, and ETC themselves have distanced themselves from the title "lolita" on purpose, due to not wanting to be mixed in with that kind of name. I think that was due to creepy lolicon type crimes in the past, if I remember that from a previous otome thread. Isn't that where otome began being used to describe them? That was from people who bought from them, not the brands themselves.
Those brands also simply don't follow lolita rules at all and don't really allow for petticoats. They do not have the lolita silhouette, either.

I'm also tired of hearing the argument "But the Japanese would call ETC, JM and AP all lolita."
Unless these are Japanese lolitas we're talking about, your normal outsiders view of a fashion they can't understand means nothing. I'm sure otome and lolita looks like the same thing to some passerby who doesn't know anything nor care about lolita fashion.

However, it seems like in more recent times, big lolita icons such as Misako really want us to think of tho otome brands as "Soft Lolita", like a form of casual lolita. Her thought process seems to be when a petticoat or normal lolita JSK are just a bit overkill for the everyday, you're supposed to resort to these brands to keep your lifestyle and overall "lolita-like" appearance.

I can definitely see how otome brands can appeal to a lolita, because they're heavy on cute prints, quality is up there, and overall aesthetic is similar, but they're not lolita. The question is: What do otome brands identify themselves as these days? Has there ever been any more recent interviews with staff we could translate? I'd be curious about what even shop girls would tell you in modern days.

I fell out of lolita for 2 years, just now getting back into it and this thread is so jarring. So y'all are telling me some fools decided that otome falls under lolita? And that now otome doesn't exist at all?

Bitch, what the Fuck

>>9522702
>I'm also tired of hearing the argument "But the Japanese would call ETC, JM and AP all lolita."
>Unless these are Japanese lolitas we're talking about, your normal outsiders view of a fashion they can't understand means nothing. I'm sure otome and lolita looks like the same thing to some passerby who doesn't know anything nor care about lolita fashion.
This is true - like how in the 00s your average normie couldn't differentiate emo and goth to save their life but members of both subcultures would be super offended if you mixed them up - but the reason people say that is allegedly because Japanese wear.jp and instagram users tag coords with ETC etc. as casual lolita.

I think a lot of what Misako says gets lost in translation as well, like when she did that video on lolita substyles and the subs made it sound like sweet lolita *had* to be pink and classic lolita had to have lace blouses, even though they'd only even come on trend a couple of years before. I don't know enough about Japanese to know if that's what she really said but it made her look stupid.

>>9522731
What about the casual Lolita video? And don't you guys think >>9519447 >>9519816
>>9519818
Look too matchy for otome?

>>9520907
I don't think it looks sexy at all? Where are you getting that from?

>>9521701
I agree, I think otome kei is a seperate style (at least in the West), and soft Lolita can be anything which sounds more like what OP is looking for.

>>9521905
It's generally agreed that you need to wear a petticoat and a Lolita main-piece for casual Lolita.

>>9522187
At least ETC did appear in GLB and Milk appeared in Eternita. Do you think brands like Leur Getter don't like it that Misako promotes them as casual Lolita? I get that Lolita isn't their concept but I assume they do have control over how their brand is being marketed. Olive also influenced Lolita a lot so maybe that didn't help your argument, but I'm curious about those blogs.

>>9522694
>>9522716
I don't go to cgl often so Idk about a shift here but some otome brands, mainly JM, ST and ETC, were accepted as Lolita in my comm as long as you coorded it right, but since a few of years ago they suddenly started to call that type of coord otome kei.

>>9522731
>the subs made it sound like sweet lolita *had* to be pink and classic lolita had to have lace blouses
I always interpreted that video (and similar ones to it) as Misako presenting the viewers with Baby's collections rather than actual cold facts on the fashion so I never took the things she said in it very seriously.

>>9522682
Ok, neo Lolita and Larme are still not nymphet fashion Andy more than lolita is.

>>9522702

iirc, it's the same anon who brought up the otaku murders. Considering her "Japanese people say so" sources, I don't think it's safe to admit this as a fact either, she might have extrapolated something vague to support her push that otome is really lolita.

I, too, am curious if we can get ahold of some views from the otome brands themselves. I think they've shifted a lot, they did use to put out a lot more varied items and now it's mostly dresses, they're very close to being purely soft lolita. Maybe with most younger girls chosing girly fashion (a la Axes Femme) instead of otome, they have shifted their focus to marketing towards soft lolita?

This thread is going too off topic imo. What term do you like for when you wear something cute or burando but it's too different to even call it casual lolita?

Some old stuff from daily alamode

>>9523402

>>9523403

>>9523404

>>9523406

>>9523408

>>9523411

>>9523413

>>9523416

This one is completely off brand
>>9523416

>>9523424

>>9523431

>>9523433

Meta with jeans
>>9523439

>>9523441

That new ETC collab is so nice

They're wearing ballet shoes

>>9523398
That's what Soft Lolita is for, at least this was labeled it in the new online Kera.

>>9523761
Cool, I've never seen anyone use that label besides Misako and some insta posts

>>9522002
What dress is this?

I think what's important to realise is that we, the wearers of the fashion, decide what it is. If we want neo lolita to mean new/modern lolita and we want soft lolita to mean non-lolita/lolita-inspired, so be it. Neo lolita could be the opposite of old school, like >>9519973 says in the video, with unusual cuts, themes and fabrics you wouldn't see until recently.

>>9524173
My god what's the matter with this girl's knees?

I think this is just Jane Marple style, but I really love the atmosphere of this advert.

Is it weird that I would rather wear soft lolita instead of regular lolita? I've wanted to get into lolita for a few years now but having the right place to wear it to has held me back as well as being a shy person who hates attracting attention and the fact that it can be impractical. Soft lolita seems like something I could realistically wear to family events or just going out to dinner. I could ease my way into wearing a full lolita coord while getting used to a wearing something that stands out

>>9522027
I feel like Misako's style is different to a lot of other images here, so I'm confused that they're all called 'soft lolita'. I like her style and what used to be known as otome kei, so I'm not sure how I go about finding more of it other than browsing the jane marple webshop.

>>9526822
That's what it's for, did you not read the thread? As long as you don't pretend you are an actual lolita it's fine. What you posted tough is casual lolita.

>>9526822
Not at all anon.
Outside of meets pretty much all of my "lolita" is acually soft/neo/casual/otome/whatever

>>9523562
Shit anon why did you say that, now I need it

What does daily ala mode come from? Do any other fashions use it?

>>9527692
it was an LJ community back in the day for coordinates with lolita items that weren't lolita proper.

dead since 2012-ish?

>>9527998
And the community was named after a short lived lolita fashion magazine that often featured unconventional coords.

>>9526874
Even though it's not a thing on cgl anymore, the otome kei tag on insta is still used often and will have what you're looking for.

>>9528040
Man I loved that magazine

>>9528043
I don't think misako's style is otome kei at all, she's very matchy matchy

Do anons think soft lolita will become a thing regularly featured in lolita magazines in the future or do you think the Kera spread for it was a one-off type of thing?

>>9530426
Kera featured it fairly regularly when they were still in print

newfag here, serious question.

do you guys actually wear this stuff out casually like you would any other normie clothing or just to special events/cons?

>>9530535
Yes, people do wear jfash and other alternative fashion styles daily. Do you ask goths if they "dress up" like they do every day?

>>9530535
>normie
Baiting your fellow gulls, eh?

>>9530537
I've never seen anyone dress goth in my life so your question doesn't make sense.

>>9530538
Not bait, just not a /cgl/ poster.

Just genuinely asking a simple question, no need for hostility guys.

>>9530548
It's just a silly question to ask. Jfash can be outlandish looking but it's still fashion and not restricted to cons or special events only; saying or even asking that can imply you think these are costumes and that tends to rub some people the wrong way.

>>9530555
Fair enough. Maybe silly on this board, but as an outsider and someone not familiar I wouldn't know. I think it's cute but I've only ever seen jfashion in magazines and cons, never outside of it.

But thanks for informing me anon

>>9530426
When did Kera feature a spread about soft lolita?

>>9519439
>Quasi lolita
I know a girl who says she made that term up. I've never seen anyone else use it and even she doesn't really use it.

>>9531440
Where is that dress from?

>>9531440
Sorry anon, it was actually neo lolita that had a spread in Kera. I thought >>9519818 >>9519816 >>9519820 were from Kera.
My question is still the same though, will magazines start featuring neo lolita regularly or is it just a short-lived trend? Also does anyone think soft lolita will become it's own fashion eventually?

>>9531624
Those pages are from Misako's book. Neo lolita has been featured in kera several times when it was still in print and at least twice since they went digital.

>>9523408
Is this queranruffles? It looks like her but damn she has come a long way.

>>9532256
I think her style is pretty much the same, she just has a bigger wardrobe and better pictures now

>>9519795
This just looks like a himekaji outfit to me

>>9521955
>do you really think is it possible for a grown woman to wear a pink dress with teddy bear print and look innocent/non-sexual?
Hello, daddy issues-chan.