/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

Tourism.
Its been "dead" ever since Harajuku became a brand for celebrities. It's sad but Im hopeful a new safe place to pop up.

I think it's 50% tourism and 50% the fact that the fashion has simply exhausted itself.

Tourism has turned Harajuku very commercial in a roundabout way; Takeshita is still rammed with alternative fashion shops, but a lot of the old ones have died because it's become a 'cool japan' hotspot, the rents have gone sky-high and a niche fashion brand can't afford a highstreet presence anymore. This is only going to get worse in the run up to the 2020 olympics, the old station building is being pulled down and replaced with a shiny glass/chrome one so it's looking more homogenized.

As for the fashion itself, I don't really think that fast fashion has killed Harajuku styles, I think a lot of it comes down to music and culture. Lolita and gothic styles were always tied to visual-kei which has slowly died. Oshare-kei brought all the colorful punk styles and that's now dead. If you look at current styles of clothing, none of them have a surrounding culture, movie or a soundtrack or anything to inspire people to wear them - they're just different ways to wear clothes and that's it, there's no reason to wear pop-kei (for example) other than the reason that other people are wearing it.

I'd say the only way that fast fashion is contributing to Harajuku style's decline is the fact that a lot of fast fashion shops have opened up in Tokyo fairly recently and the fact that smartphones and twitter/instagram have put more and more Japanese kids in touch with Western culture. Harajuku style was a Japanese thing and now that those Japanese kids are broadening their horizons, they want to try something new that has conveniently landed on their doorstep.

If you look on Tokyo Street Fashion's street snaps, most of the styles are heavily fragmented and the favorite bands listed by the models are often just western pop stars or K-Pop groups.

Yeah it's dead. When I went last March all the tourists (yes I know I'm one of them) were flocking around the bridge, clearly waiting for those Harajuku kids and were pretty stoked when this group showed up. Everything is pretty tame and you can tell half or more are gaijin. I wish I got a picture of the people taking pictures. I just happened to be coming out of the Meiji shrine at the time. Takeshita street was so packed it was impossible to move. I'm glad I stuck to it and made it to the smaller back streets where things seem more chill.

My understanding is that a lot of the street fashion people got scared away from all of the attention they get in Harajuku. J-fashion exists, you just aren't going to get those cute, free street snaps anymore.

imo I think the magazine should move to paid photoshoots, but that costs money.

>>9365572
Lolita is thriving. After the bubble burst, a lot of brands went out of business (way more than in the past couple of years), and lolita's can't hang out at harajuku bridge anymore, but that doesn't mean they stopped existing.

>>9365572
I'm very curious to hear about the new spot bear Bunka. I agree with the other anon that tourism and looky-loos had a strong negative effect on the harajuku scene. The spot near Bunka is interesting if it's close to the fashion school, because there'd be a continuous influx of new kids each year + a reason to look good (impressing professors + classmates) beyond the "maybe I'll be photographed by a street photographer" in harajuku

>>9365657
The girl in the checkered jacket. Why is she doing that pose. Why.

>>9365581
>It's sad but Im hopeful a new safe place to pop up.
Most people have been going to Akiba for that since years already.

>>9365879
akiba has a completely different vibe and attracts different people

>>9365572
I always look at these old magazines and wonder what these people are doing now.

Could we have another Where are they now thread. ?

>Shoichi Aoki

>>9365901
Eh, not really as otaku culture plays a huge role in jfashion for a long time already.

>>9365879

Akiba has changed completely, it's not that great anymore. The vibe is completely different and it's always full of tourists. There are more white people in Mandarake and Kotobukiya than there are Japanese and the dollfie dream VOLKS store is full of chinese/singaporeans.

Akiba at night is virtually no different from Shibuya, hardly any otaku at all.

This thread has made me curious: what places in Japan are actually active in terms of subfashion nowadays?

>>9365875
It's supposed to be "catch these hands"

>>9365657
>girl in the checkered jacket
So is Sue Perkins-kei the next big trend for 2017 or something?

>>9365928
This exactly. He's a snob. Sorry that nobody wears your #1 fav homeless-kei any more.

>>9365875
they're doing a rap squat

>>9365930
>a huge role
sure jan

>>9365965

Shimokitazawa is hipster heaven and is having a renewed sense of identity lately. That's all that comes to mind in terms of new subculture. The old ones are pretty much dead in the water or at least slowly sinking. I don't know what the anon above who said 'Lolita is thriving' when it definitely isn't, maybe if you're only looking at websites online or something.

>>9365986

I don't care about Shoichi Aoki but whether you like him or not, the article is correct. You can walk up and down Takeshida a good couple of times without seeing anyone in any kind of alternative fashion nowadays.

>>9366023
Like everyone has already pointed out, they've moved away from those places because of tourism. In some places Japanese girls can't wear lolita without a crowd forming around them. When lolita's in Tokyo hang out together they prefer to do it indoors.

It's not dead, people just don't look in the right places.
Current styles:
>Steampunk
>Yume Kawaii
>China Kei
>Menhera
>Larme
>Neo Lolita/Gyaru
>Peco style
>Anime influenced styles(See ita bags)
>Japanese inspired coords
>Whatever the new CPK is called
and that's just the ones I'm aware of.

>>9366003
You sound new to the evolution of jfashion in the past 10 years, guess why itabags got popular there in the first place. They even had a whole segment about that fact on NHK.

>>9365986
Homeless Party Kei is popular tho.

I think more people are posting online. I still follow a lot of Japanese girls on insta who wear cult party looks, etc. while some of these fashions may be toned down, they're not gone entirely. I think the web is really the biggest killer of hangout spots. Why go out when you can safe at home and just post to all your like minded followers?

There are also still lots of small indie brands out there, but they are either online only or have the occasional pop up. Very few have physical locations anymore.

>>9366049
>Very few have physical locations anymore.
I think this isn't because of the influx in tourists and the 2020 olympics. I heard that the places on the Takeshita Dori main street are being bought out by shops that foreigners will recognise.

>>9366061
Is* not Isn't.

>>9366028

That hasn't been the case for a while, most people in this thread are making assumptions rather than stating fact. Tourism has only done so much damage to Harajuku subcultures, yes sundays at jingubashi are now a thing of the past but a lot of it is caused by the fact that the fashions just aren't as popular anymore - it's a pretty normal progression, no style sticks around forever and what we have now compared to what existed before doesn't have the same grassroots culture that lolita, decora, gyaru etc. has - Harajuku styles have branched off to such an extent that there's no unifying brands that really join these looks together.

I know you might like to entertain the idea that all the lolitas are out hiding somewhere having secret meetups and that everything is hunky dory but the reality is that there just aren't many lolitas around anymore. All the relics of older J-fashion are dying and the styles that are replacing them don't have enough of a presence. Go to Tokyo and see it for yourself, nearly every brand has been squashed into the bottom floor of Laforet or in a small portion of one of the floors in the Shinjuku marui complex - you can take a walk through either of these at anytime and be one of about 5 other people on the same floor; they're not surviving, not in Takeshita dori or anywhere. h.naoto has had to completely shut down every physical shop they have, there aren't enough people buying the clothes to keep the stores open.

If tourism has changed anything, it's caused the rent prices in Harajuku to be too expensive to afford. People did take pictures of lolitas and other people in Harajuku styles, but that was more of a 2013 thing and it wasn't that bad at the time, certainly not as bad as this idea that people were flocking to Lolitas to take pictures. It was more of a case of you could walk from one length of Takeshita to another and have maybe 3 tourists ask for pictures, jingubashi was the only 'photo spot' and that's long gone.

When I went in 2015, the lolitas I saw on takeshita were all Chinese tourists.

>>9366030

You never actually see people wearing these apart from individual street snaps though. It's not like you walk around and see girls wearing Yume kawaii or mehera everywhere. All you've done is list clothing styles, it doesn't mean they're actually prolific. That's like saying that 70s punk style is popular in the west because you saw one person with a mohawk once.

>>9366099

And boy do they love Bodyline. I don't think I've seen a single Japanese person in there whenever I've been inside.

>>9366105
I wonder how it is in Sapporo. I went to Japan around 2010, when the article said alt style was dying. And in Harajuku, I didn't see anybody dressed well, just a crowd of tourists. But in Sapporo, where there were no gawkers, there were well-dressed people all over.

>>9365998
>>9365980
Oh, I see. I'm not cool enough to know these trends.
I legitimately though it was a weeb trying to do the shinto prayer thing.
Glad to know it's not the case.

>>9366049
>Why go out when you can safe at home and just post to all your like minded followers?
Pretty much this.
Tbh, you don't really see young people outside these days in general anymore outside of them going to school/college/uni and back unless you happen to be near some event.

>>9366106
It's because they're too cheap to pay for brand. Plus they're used to the bad quality already.

>>9365657
I've never seen so many unfortunate looking people in my life.

>>9366105
>It's not like you walk around and see girls wearing Yume kawaii or mehera everywhere.
Because it's alt fashion. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean the style is dead. Not many people wear it, or it would be normie fashion. It's not like Japanese girls put on menhera or lolita, take a coord picture and change into normie clothes before going out. If you want to see it irl you have to go to the right events/clubs/lives.

>>9365572
>I've been hearing a lot about this one area/street near Bunka, the fashion school of Tokyo, so maybe that is where everyone is headed?

I live very close to Bunka but I have no idea where that is supposed to be, do you have more specific info regarding the location?

>>9366030
>peco style
I've never been to Jpn but I watch Japanese tv sometimes and they talked so much about peco and pic related's style

Anons who have been, is it worth it to go to west Tokyo to see the stores and fashion and if so, how many days can you spend there? 2 or 3 maybe?

I'm going on a month long study abroad trip but it's in Kobe, and I wanted to arrive a bit early so I could hit these things in Tokyo if it was worth the extra flight and stay. I was going to pack my best alt outfits not even caring that it's naive gaijin dreams but now they thread has me depress-chan

>>9365657
Last time I saw actual Japanese 'Harajuku girls' at that bridge, it was 2008. And back then it was already scarce.

>>9366023
>maybe if you're only looking at websites online or something

Isn't that sort of the point though? Last thread about Fruits magazine not publishing regularly anymore, someone said it's because the cool kids are now on insta trying to start their indie brands online instead of posing on random streets hoping to get photographed.

>>9366583
peco is like a guest host on all the tv shows for some reason...

>>9366576
>If you want to see it irl you have to go to the right events/clubs/lives.

Such as? Genuinely curious about this as I'm pretty well vested in Tokyo's live house and club scene and have never seen these fashions there at all.

If you could provide some specifics on where these fashions are so popular that would be great because I'm able to actually verify whether or not it's actually true.

>>9366583
Watched him on one of Downtown's dress up segments, damn he's irritating as shit.

>>9365853
>>9366580

I sadly can't verify the specifics because I just read about it on a post online somewhere. I believe it was in a youtube comment where someone from Bunka was being interviewed? But they were basically saying that like the main road or some road around Bunka was the good new place to see what the designer kids/Bunka students were wearing and what was trendy because they'd all go down that road, so you'd see a lot of alternative jfashion.

It might not be the new Harajuku and just be the Japanese equivalent of walking around near Pratt or something, but at least its alternative fashion?

>>9366580

I've thought the same whenever people mention this. I think people just assume there's a place around Bunka because a few of the students have become pseudo street fashion icons and appear on Insta/Ask Japanese interviews. There's nothing actually going on there apart from fashion kids attending fashion school, it's not like there's any unique subculture happening that we're not seeing.

>>9366704
>someone said it's because the cool kids are now on insta trying to start their indie brands online

'Someone said' a lot of things in this thread and others but they're often scarce with the actual details. I wonder if any of these people actually live in/visit Tokyo often because there are a lot of claims thrown around with no factual basis. I think what people like to do is follow trends online, make assumptions as to what they think is happening and then post it on /cgl/ as fact.

>X is the hot new style everyone in Harajuku is wearing, I don't know any details but they must be somewhere right?
>Style X is thriving, I saw it on instagram so it must be true
>You don't know where the REAL lolitas are because you're not going to the right places. Which places are they? Oh I don't know...probably somewhere.

I've watched Harajuku evolve firsthand over years and the simple fact is that typical Harajuku styles just aren't popular anymore. Brand shops have either closed completely or become barren and empty while WEGO and Spinns are constantly rammed with girls. If it was just due to the fact that Harajuku has become a tourist trap you'd still see the clothes survive elsewhere, yet brand stores are closing down left, right and center.

It's just natural evolution, we've had over a decade of loud, garish or 'statement' styles - popular styles now are much more understated and work well with the influx of fast fashion stores that have been popping up all over Tokyo. It's far easier to combine F21/H&M/Zara with clothes from WEGO, Candy Stripper and Spinns.

>>9366732
I think there's also this assumption that 'fast fashion' is a new concept in Japan with the influx of Western brands/trends and it definitely isn't.

If you look at the timeline of jfashion trends in Japan itself, most of them barely lasted a year and the ones that lasted a longer time evolved constantly and barely had a handful of notable people. It's us in the West that hold on to them and still try and make them a thing, when they're definitely dead or on their last limbs in Japan. Jfashion is inherently fast fashion, and people cycle through the styles constantly.

Japan is a culture of shame. It makes total sense that no one is really walking around in outrageous styles anymore and keeping the crazy stuff to social media. When people do venture in Harajuku it's in groups like >>9365657 so they don't feel like they stand out too much individually and have security in numbers.

>>9366738

Fast fashion isn't new to Japan (See: Uniqlo) but stores like Bershka, F21 and Zara are relatively new and are much more popular with the new Harajuku crowd than the tried and true Harajuku subculture brand stores are.

J-Fashion isn't really fast fashion, you're sort of confusing the act of trends changing quickly with actual quote-unquote 'fast fashion'. Fast fashion is very much its own process - it's a name for a certain type of retailing of clothing, it's the business model that Zara, H&M, Uniqlo, F21, Bershka etc. operate on whereby new items aren't divided into seasons (Like how most (J-)Fashion brands operate) but just constantly rushed onto the shop floor every few weeks. Fast fashion is like the antithesis of fashion because it's business model is based on very cheap, very prolific output to keep people coming back for more. J-Fashion brands work more like conventional clothing designers.

>>9366717
Check out yume kawaii idol groups and illustrators on Twitter, they always post about upcoming festivals.

>>9366754
That's true, I did miscategorize it as fast fashion.

>>9366784

I'm already familiar with yumekawaii idols, I've seen BPM15Q and Strawberry Syndrome twice each, the biggest event was BPM15Q (figures as they're probably the biggest names in the scene right now) and the venue and crowd was tiny. Just because events are called 'festivals' doesn't mean they're actually festival-like in size or operation. Cure festival is no bigger than a small oneman show, you get bigger turnouts at livehouses to see minor Vkei bands play, and that's in 2016/2017 with the scene being basically dead. Also sorry to burst your bubble but most of the audience is male and the girls that do go are rarely in yumekawaii or any kind of fashion, it's no different from seeing any other idol unit perform at Mogra except slightly smaller.

I miss older styles so much man.
None of these "new" styles have that wow factor that the older ones had (for me at least).
It's so boring. Bring back early/mid 2000 alternative jfash.

I would say Jfash is changing rather than dying?
I guess we're just more on the internet than on the streets as said previously.
And as for Japan, much like us, they just don't want to be gawked at and flashed by a bazillion cameras like freaks so that's why they're quieter and go at "safer" places to hang out nowadays?
But it's true that the subculture is dead (vkei,oshare kei,...)
I think that 2000's to 2010 were the real good days though. Especially for internet platforms (livejournal is so much better than facebook honestly) and the street styles (especially old lolita,decora,early fairy kei) were much more intersting than the one I see around now imo. I hate menhera and larme.

>>9366784
Not the anon you're responding to but that doesn't sound very promising because I have trouble finding alot of people wearing it. Compared to something like dolly kei (which was very niche even for an alternative fashion) that you can at least find a decent number of pictures for. I also think that it's more of a hair/makeup style and theme in fairy kei rather than its own standalone fashion.

I agree with >>9366732 that simple, easy styles are popular in jfashion as a reaction to the OTT stuff. I think even mainstream fashion has been more toned down in the past couple of years with so much minimalistic and sporty stuff trending

>>9366810
>the biggest event was BPM15Q
You haven't seen the Yume Cawaii Festival then, shit's giant with 10+ idol groups.

>>9366839
+it obviously isn't for males with all the big-name brand booths (Nile Perch, Swankiss, etc) and fashion show.

>>9366839

I'm familiar with it, it's not huge and it's part fashion show anyway. 10+ idol groups isn't a lot by any stretch. Most idol groups don't perform a full hour set, and you get about 10 DJs at a standard night in Mogra/WOMB/etc.

How do you come to the conclusion that alt jfashion is dead just because it isn't popular. If that's the case then foreigners are keeping the brands alive, but that doesn't make sense.

>>9366869
Anon, you're forgetting it's alt fashion. The only reason lolita/vkei are different is because they caught on worldwide.

>>9366874

What you've said doesn't make any sense and I don't see the relevance to the post. What am I supposed to be forgetting? That YumeKawaii is alt-fashion? So are a lot of things, but YumeKawaii is really not as popular or as common as you think. It's barely even a subculture; as said before, if you go and see YumeKawaii idol events you'll find the crowd is 70% normal japanese males and the girls that go don't dress in YumeKawaii style.

>>9366878
I think her point is that it's not common or popular

This thread isn't called uncommon and unpopular jfashion

>>9366889

My understanding of the narrative of this thread is that people are trying to claim:

1) J-Fashion isn't getting less popular it's just changing into other styles like YumeKawaii etc
2) There are plenty of people wearing Harajuku styles, we're all just looking in the wrong place

But once again, a succinct lack of facts; some people are saying that Bunka is where the subcultures are, yet they're not. Someone else saying that if you go to YumeKawaii idol events you'll see the people who wear those styles, yet you don't.

I think a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions here with very little to support them, others are outright lying.

>>9366920
The same person who said that already backpedalled. People are arguing that jfashion is not dead.

>>9366869
If hundreds of people in jfashion isn't "huge" to you, I don't know what is.
>>9366878
>>9366920
>70% males
>girls that go don't dress in YumeKawaii style
Are you blind or something?

>>9366956
But yeah, jfashion is totally dead and it's all guys.

>>9366958
The front rows are always so masculine and normie.

>>9366956

That's yumekawa fest, it's primarily a fashion show with a runway, it's not an actual idol event - that's the exception not the rule. BPM15Q play a few times a month at actual idol events and yes the crowds are predominantly male with very little in the way of yumekawa fashion being represented, same applies to other groups and duos.

Can I ask you if you've actually been to any of these events or are you just copying pictures from Twitter/Instagram? Because that's what it looks like to me.

>>9366959
I can't handle the amount of dick wearers at yumekawaii events.

>>9366962
You were the one saying yumekawaii isn't popular and not worn at the festa, your own fault.

>>9366838
>I also think that it's more of a hair/makeup style and theme in fairy kei rather than its own standalone fashion.
Someone's new.

>>9366965

Yumekawaii isn't popular, a few hundred people is nothing - about the size of a small club.

And when did I ever say it wasn't worn at the festival? Please find me the direct quote.

Honestly you're just being purposely obtuse and I heavily doubt you've actually been to any of these events because I have and what you're claiming is far from the reality of actual yumekawaii idol events. It's the equivalent of using a cosplay tournament as an example of a convention; they're two completely different things.

>>9366838
>I also think that it's more of a hair/makeup style and theme in fairy kei rather than its own standalone fashion.
It's not, it is what Fairy Kei evolved into (probably because of expanding too much away from its 80s childhood nostalgia origin) which is why all the former FK brands, including Spank!, label themself Yumekawaii these days.

>>9366968
>Yumekawaii isn't popular, a few hundred people is nothing - about the size of a small club.
In case of jfashion it IS a sign of popularity, you seem to forget that what jfashion is used as label for japanese alt fashion in the west and it's not like if there would be thousands of people in Japan wearing it to begin with.

>>9366979

We're you not around in 2000- present day? There were easily thousands of people in Japan wearing "J-fashion" and that's per-style, not a grand total. There's a reason you in the West know about Harajuku subcultures; it's because they were big business at one point. See visual kei as an example, a few hundred is a meager number.

Can you please also answer my question: Have you been to any Yumekawaii idol events in Japan? If so then please tell me which ones, when and where. Your posts sound like they're lacking in actual firsthand experience and I'd like to confirm this, else we have other, more specific things to talk about.

>>9366106
I've seen lots but they are buying the costume stuff, because BL is a costume store

>>9366987
Where have I been talking about Yumekawaii idol festivals? The anon in >>9366784 wasn't either and I have been to Yume Cawaii Festival at both the august 2015 and april 2016 event as well as Kawaii Stars, the later is nicer for due to lasting few days and the idol groups attending don't suddenly make an influx of guys or normies there.

>>9366968
You keep moving the goalposts when presented with information about YumeKawaii having an active community.

I doubt jfashion brand events years ago were pulling numbers in the thousands, I've seen photos of old AP events and BTSSB events, they were small to medium sized just like the YumeKawaii idol events.

Fact is a lot of people are talking out of their ass with reguards to Harajuku fashion being alive or dead. Visiting Harajuku for two days once and not seeing anyone in jfashion isn't proof that it is dead. The trends ARE changing, the style is different and more toned down. But most people go years without ever seeing someone goth IRL, that doesn't mean goth is dead and that there isn't a goth community.

>>9366987
No, they weren't ever "big businesses". They were always niche, and always only ever going to be niche. Do you have sources on this number of "thousands"?

>>9367004
Same anon here, but I found an old egl post with photos from a Tokyo lolita event, and there does not seem to be that many people there. The community has always been small and intimate, people just are less public now. This doesn't mean that the community as a whole hasn't declined in some way, but we shouldn't be burying it before it is dead.

Here is the link: http://egl.livejournal.com/10567972.html

Anyway, the community in the west and east are so different and has always been different. We have our own trends (bittersweet, pastel goth,scepters and staff) and interpretations of styles (the western interpretation of fairy kei looks nothing like the Spank! style it was based off), We can survive on our own.

>>9367017
And another from 2011 that describes a "giant" turn out as 100 lolitas.

http://glitterxbeast.blogspot.com/2011/09/angelic-pretty-uchimizu-event.html

>>9366996
>Yume Cawaii Festival at both the august 2015 and april 2016 event as well as Kawaii Stars

Both of those are fashion shows, they're not YumeKawaii idol events. An anon above claimed that there are plenty of people wearing YumeKawaii at idol events - let me dispel that myth by telling you that no - that is not the case.

Once again, we go back to you comparing a fashion show to an actual idol event - they are not the same thing. What you're doing is the equivalent of saying "There are loads of cosplayers at conventions, look at this cosplay tournament as proof" - of course there would be a concentration of cosplayers at a cosplay specific event, that doesn't mean that conventions themselves are mainly comprised of cosplayers. Do you understand this? Those are events dedicated to that style, so you're going to see a large representation of that style - it's not standard fare for the subculture itself - which are idol events held in small clubs.

>>9367004

Nobody is saying that Harajuku fashion is dead, especially not me. It would be near-impossible for it to be functionally dead, there will always be someone wearing some old obscure style, that's just what people are like.

If you've followed my posts you'll know that I haven't moved the goalposts once; the simple fact is that people are comparing past Harajuku trends like Visual-Kei, gothic lolita etc. to the trends of nowadays (Larme, YumeKawaii). The simple fact is that YumeKawaii is not nearly as popular now as lolita was in its heyday, it's not nearly as popular now as lolita is now, and lolita is barely seen at all nowadays.

Cont..

>>9367004
>>9367031

I never said they were big 'businesses' I said they were "Big business", there's a nuanced difference there and one that can easily be explained with Visual-kei; right now most people will admit that V-kei is at a very low point of its popularity, maybe even the lowest - yet if you go to any livehouse in Shinjuku or Ikebukuro today to see even an underground band play, you'll see a couple hundred (mainly girls/women) in v-kei style.

If you go to visual kei festivals (I mean actual music festivals that spread over multiple days, multiple arenas and have impressive lineups) you'll see easily thousands of people in Vkei. Easily. There are hundreds of thousands at the events alone. Niche and big are not mutually exclusive - niche events and styles can be big too.

>>9367022
That's one person describing it as 'giant' when it clearly isn't. I'm not saying that there were floods of lolitas walking around Takeshita back in the day, but there were a lot more than a few hundred. Correlation doesn't prove causation, just because a few hundred people went to a yumekawaii fashion show doesn't mean that we would necessarily see the same amount going to a lolita fashion show, there are way too many variables that would stop the same numbers of attendance.

The numbers speak for themselves, if YumeKawaii were as popular as lolita was then you'd see plenty of thriving YumeKawaii brand shops open and able to pay the bills, yet you don't.

http://www.tokyofashiondiaries.com/harajuku-tokyo-gentrification-tokku/

>>9367051
>The numbers speak for themselves, if YumeKawaii were as popular as lolita was then you'd see plenty of thriving YumeKawaii brand shops open and able to pay the bills, yet you don't.
But that's exactly is the case? Spank, Nile Perch, Listen Flavor and many more of the big-name Harajuku brands consider themself Yumekawaii too and new popular brands like Magical or Starmii are always sold out within minuts when they have a release.

>>9367238
I'm sure they'll come back to say how those stores are all either secretly struggling or secretly normie clothes.

>>9367051
>you'd see plenty of thriving YumeKawaii brand shops open and able to pay the bills
They do, just not in Harajuku because that's a tourist area these days, lots like the famous Tenten are located in Nakazaki, Osaka.

>>9367238
Not to mention even mainstream brands are releasing yume kawaii inspired lines. Wego and Spinns, for example. Yulano Ochi is also one of the most popular Popteen girls, and she wears it. Her collab with Wego sold out almost instantly.

>>9367051
So we all agree that jfashion is not dead, which is what this thread is about.

>>9367472
But Harajuku is dead, or at least on life support, which is also what the thread is about.

>>9367474
Yes and we also agree on that

>>9367238

Wow, lot of misinformation here. Whereabouts in Japan do you live?

First of all, the obvious stuff: Listen Flavor isn't Yumekawaii and has never been Yumekawaii. Primarily it's a punk brand with it's own style, for every pastel item Listen Flavor have made, I can find you three punk items.

Spank!, not Yumekawaii - Fairy-kei, pretty common knowledge. Not to mention the fact that Spank!'s popularity is massively blown out of proportion online. There's only one store left (Nakano Broadway), it's absolutely tiny (You can barely fit two people in there) and only stocks a tiny rail of clothes (the same ones that haven't changed in the past 7 months). Not only that, they can't afford to keep it open for more than a few hours each day, even by Nakano standards.

Continued for phoneposting..

>>9367244

Except even the ones that aren't in Harajuku are having trouble staying open.

>>9367376

Source on it selling out instantly? I remember the collaboration, but I wasn't paying particular attention to the success of the line. I can say though that WEGO and Spinns definitely don't incorporate much if any Yumekawaii into their normal lines, for the past good few months both stores have had a F21/AA vibe going on. Except maybe Spinns 2.5 which isn't really Yumekawaii, it's just artist collabs.

>>9365928
Underrated post.

>>9366115
This is exactly what's happened to alt subcultures in the West, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something similar was going on in Japan. Fame isn't about wandering around hoping to get street snapped any more - you take your own snaps and post online to your followers. The people who have the time to do this are often people who don't go out much anyway. Look at the West and how many of the efamous girls on tumblr barely leave the house because they have some sort of disability or condition, yet get thousands of followers based on posting coord shots in their room (or the amount of normies who get popular on Insta for doing makeup and selfies in their room). I don't think badly of any of those girls, but it's noticeable. The G&LB's street snaps have been entirely staged for a few years, with people queuing up in a specific time and location to get into the Bible. Shoichi Aoki has always wanted FRUiTS to be more organic, and unless he was willing to compromise and stage street snaps in the same way, his magazine was always going to close.

I have a large lolita wardrobe and struggle to find occasions to wear it, because I barely leave the house except for uni, work and discount grocery shopping. Hanging out with friends is usually at someone's house or apartment not in the city, nobody seems to want to pay to sit in cafés all day when they can chill at home for free and save the money for burando, and none of my normie friends like the attention being with someone in lolita brings. Why go out when I can sit at home and get more popularity for being constantly online posting coord shots and interacting with my followers than I could for actually going out and wearing the clothes?

>>9366576
>>9367004
>But most people go years without ever seeing someone goth IRL, that doesn't mean goth is dead and that there isn't a goth community.
I live and spend time in several major British cities and see people in alt fashions that originated here maybe once every couple of months, if that (not counting events like club nights that would draw that sort of crowd). I've noticed that, partly thanks to the Internet, fashion trends are more diffused - places like Camden are no longer relevant, but there are teenagers out in small towns all over the country who wear goth, punk and even dated styles like emo, they're just spread out and not congregating in a particular place. I have younger siblings and cousins living in small towns who tell me that they have groups of alt kids in their school, who buy their clothes online rather than travelling into alt markets in the city. I have no evidence of this at all, but I sometimes wonder if jfash might be becoming more like that - diffused across the country and with people mostly buying online from brand webshops and the large second-hand shops and auction sites, rather than with exclusively buying and wearing street fashion in specific areas of Tokyo. So maybe kids aren't going to Takeshita Dori, but there are teenagers in the provinces who buy and wear yumekawaii. Pure speculation of course, and it's still similar to the scene just being dead.

I remember seeing a recent-ish YouTube interview (think it might have been the one with that Japanese girl who started a café meetup thing so new lolitas could meet each other, almost like a comm) where someone who'd been in lolita a few years said that they thought lolita had become much easier to wear and more accepted in society than in the early 00s (talking about how much hate lolitas and harajuku kids got in the 00s, before Japan saw it as a valuable cultural export), but that made it harder to meet other people in the style because more people were just going lone.

>>9367595
When were the G&LB snaps not staged? I was under the impression they always let people know where they'd be or they went to an event. At least I've thought so since the first English one came out..

>>9367606
Possibly they told people when they went to events or went out every Saturday or something but they really did used to just take photos of people around Harajuku. You can tell just by looking through the pics in the older Bibles as well, all the street snaps have different backgrounds and locations. The first English G&LB came out in 2008 and the Bibles have been around since 2001, so...

>>9367240
You were right.
>>9367509
>>9367546
Someone's salty, I'm from Fukushima-ku, Osaka and nobody stugges in any way or else they wouldn't open new branches.

>>9367509
>First of all, the obvious stuff: Listen Flavor isn't Yumekawaii and has never been Yumekawaii. Primarily it's a punk brand with it's own style, for every pastel item Listen Flavor have made, I can find you three punk items.
>Spank!, not Yumekawaii - Fairy-kei, pretty common knowledge. Not to mention the fact that Spank!'s popularity is massively blown out of proportion online. There's only one store left (Nakano Broadway), it's absolutely tiny (You can barely fit two people in there) and only stocks a tiny rail of clothes (the same ones that haven't changed in the past 7 months). Not only that, they can't afford to keep it open for more than a few hours each day, even by Nakano standards.
Wrong, unless you never looked at their sites, all of those describe themself as yumekawaii frequently and Spank! even gave interviews on how they changed their store interior to go with it.

Also, the reason why shops don't stock as much as online is because a lot of people into aklt fashion don't live in Tokyo in the first place and different to the past you don't need to travel there via train anymore in order to find people with the same interests, that's what mixi groups are for.

If JFashion was dead, things such as Larme brands wouldn't spread new shops all over the place.

>>9367665
Larme is mainstream fashion.

>>9367729
Not really, you don't see people wearing Japan outside of Tokyo and events, even Gyaru is more mainstream.

>>9365812
I'm curious, which brands have gone out of business?

>>9365812
why can't they hang out at the bridge anymore?

>>9367816
Not that anon but just check the old brand list on egl and indie lolitas and a lot of links are dead or go to a website that hasn't been updated in years

>>9367855
Most of those already died over 10 years ago tho.

>>9367855
Just checked the list and pretty most of the links that don't work anymore are just of shops that either changed names and/or moved to thestore.jp

>>9367651
>I'm from Fukushima-ku, Osaka and nobody stugges in any way or else they wouldn't open new branches

There's nothing to be salty about, I'm just stating fact. We're not seeing new branches open up everywhere in Japan, you only need to look back to last few years to see how many shops all over the country have closed down.

Every h.naoto - completely closed down.
Every Sexpot outside of Harajuku - closed down.
Putumayo omotesando - closed down.
Hellcatpunks - closed down.
Malkomalka - completely closed down.
Listen Flavor Koenji - closed down,
Spank! Koenji - closed down.
Milklim - closed down

Every time I walk past Galaxxxy I wonder how long that has left too because I don't think I've ever seen anyone buying anything in there and I'm not really surprised seeing as the place is empty. It feels as though the only people who bother visiting are foreigners.

>>9367656
>Spank!'s website

You do realize how old and out of date the site is right? All the pictures are of the Koenji branch and still mentions the Shibuya store closing down, which was ages ago. There aren't actually loads of clothes on sale, they're all sold out listings from nearly 8 years ago. Spank! has primarily sold single vintage/used items before anything else and a smattering of branded stuff after that. There is no huge stock of Spank! you can order from.

>Spank! even gave interviews on how they changed their store interior to go with it

You mean when they lost their Koenji shop and had to severely scale down to Nakano? I don't remember any interviews about that, albeit I don't follow Spank! closely but please post the link I'm interested to read it. As for Listen Flavor - my point still stands, they're not a YumeKawaii brand. For every piece of remotely pastel clothing they've made I can find you 3 punk pieces, and that's going on the incorrect idea that everything pastel is YumeKawaii, which it obviously isn't.

>>9367878
I wasn't talking about their website but their social network sites like Twitter, they post a lot about their new popup stores which are all over the place, same goes for the yumekawaii stuff.

Also
https://tokyogirlsupdate.com/yume-kawaii-girls-20150855504.html

If yumekawaii is so small and all stores closing, I wonder how the japanese yumekawaii newssite manages to post about events and new releases daily, nor would Design Festa have openend a whole section delicated to only it.

>>9367656

>that's what mixi groups are for.

What is this, 2004? Hardly anybody uses mixi anymore.

>>9367665

Larme is probably the most popular 'Harajuku style' right now (If you want to call it that) but a lot of the 'Larme' shops aren't selling their own clothes. MILK got redecorated not too long ago and the new layout is much more minimal than it used to be and the clothes that are actually on display aren't actually their own, it's only the jewelry/accessories, which makes sense because they probably can't afford to mass-produce clothes. It's easy to be the most popular alternative style when it's so accessible to the mainstream in small doses, it's harder to do that with lolita, decora etc..

A lot of people list Spinns/WEGO as being Larme stores but that's not really correct given that they're just clothing shops jumping on to the trend. Most of the stuff they sell there isn't Larme, it's kind of a mash up of fast fashion, K-Fashion and typical internet stuff you'd find on storenvy.

Harajuku fashion just doesn't exist in the same way it used to; you don't really see definite styles around like you used to. The people who would have dressed Decora, Lolita, Fairy-kei etc. are mainly just wearing a kind of mishmash of clothes sourced from all over the place, that kind of 'neo-street style' I think I heard someone refer to it once (not sure if I agree), things also aren't as 'brandy' as they used to be. A lot of brand shops are actually just selling other manufacturers clothes, they're selling more of a 'look' than actual new items that they've made. It's like the clothing equivalent of social media regurgitating and aggregating content, the shop equivalent of aesthetic blogs - if you will. A lot of gothic clothing stores have been doing it for a while, they rebrand an item you can find on Rakuten, get a different model to wear it and ramp the prices up (WRogue/Jury Black looking at you).

Well good, I'm glad it's dying. Now I can be even more unique and edgy when I wear lolita out and about.

>>9367910
Are you fluent in japanese? I've been looking for someone to help me translate Lolita fashion book

On a sidenote, larme is not a harajuku style

>>9367883
>https://tokyogirlsupdate.com/yume-kawaii-girls-20150855504.html

That's not an interview, I've read this - that's just a translated article with a part of it mentioning Spank!.

And I was completely right, it's not a redesign at all - that article was written just after they had to scale down after losing Koenji, just like they had to do when they lost Shibuya.

>>9367883
>they post a lot about their new popup stores which are all over the place

Where? I can't see that anywhere and I haven't heard of Spank! pop up shops in ages...if ever, I'm not even sure if they have.

>>9367896

Hold on a minute, let's do some fact-checking here:

>nor would Design Festa have openend a whole section delicated to only it.

Let's take a look at this exaggeration.

First of all, you're talking about Design Festa Gallery, which is in a tiny alleyway somewhere between Takeshita and Cat Street. It's not, by any stretch a big thing.

Secondly, Team Magiculture-S- is an 'exhibition' for a small group of artists that runs over 2 days this weekend.

You're making it sound like it's a huge area dedicated to YumeKawaii when in fact it's one part of a tiny building showcasing a group of artists who have a slightly YumeKawaii style selling postcards, stickers, badges, maybe the odd accessory/t-shirt over the course of 1 weekend.

Nothing against Design Festa Gallery or the artists that go there, I've been there a few times and bought stuff before but you're completely blowing it out of proportion. It's got barely anything to do with the fashion and it's literally down an alleyway. You're making it sound like some giant huge festival exhibition when it isn't at all.

And what about this:

>japanese yumekawaii newssite manages to post about events and new releases daily

>>japanese yumekawaii newssite
Define your terms. Are you talking about twitter?

>>New releases
Define your terms. Releases of what?

>>9367927

I think over the years the goalposts move on what 'fluent' counts as, but yes I could probably translate the book. Unfortunately I'm not interested enough in Lolita to do it.

>On a sidenote, larme is not a harajuku style

Honestly I agree, I just think it's the closest 'new' (by which I mean, popular and widespread) thing we have now that's decently represented as a style in Harajuku. It's either that or that kind of pop-kei style but I wonder how much of that is actually popular and how much is just kept alive by Sebastian Masuda shilling it as the 'quirky harajuku style' to foreigners.

I guess it must be popular if ACDCRag can keep 3 shops selling exactly the same stuff open on Takeshita at the same time.

>>9367878
Should add Black Peace Now / Peace Now to that list, although that was a few years ago. Same for Moitie's physical locations.

>>9367929

Oh and another bit of fact-checking here that I forgot to add:

>>nor would Design Festa have openend a whole section delicated to only it.

Design Festa Gallery haven't so much 'opened' a 'whole section'. A single room has been rented out by the artists; Anyone can do it, you can do it, I can do it. It costs what? About 20,000 yen or so I think for a weekend in one small room.

I could draw up anything and rent it out myself, I could literally do it right now if I wanted to.

>>9367943
>pop-kei style
Do you mean peco's?

is this it lads?

What happened to banana fish?

>>9367987
It closed years ago

>>9367967

No not really, I don't even know if it has a name right now because it just mainly seems to be branded as the typical 'Harajuku style' to foreigners. It's similar to that colourful ACDCRag meets 6%DOKIDOKI style that SUPER LOVERS, MALKOMALKA, LISTEN FLAVOR etc. were doing a while ago when Oshare was popular. It's not bad...I just like it better when it's not eBay-quality.

How did Japanese teenagers afford to buy brand stuff in the first place?

>>9368762
I seem to remember reading somewhere that kids in lots of east Asia get large amounts of money at new year's from parents and grandparents. I would assume along with this they'd get a regular allowance? Or they do what Momoko does and extort money from their parents with ridiculous lies.

>>9368762
Part time jobs

>>9368762
a higher minimum wage

>>9368831
As someone east Asian, new years money is allowance money. But instead of it being spread out throughout the year, it's all at once in a span of two weeks.

>>9368886
Says you. I have a red envelope account at the post office that I started when I was ten with a couple thousand USD from all the money I didn't spend.

>>9368831
Not just parents and grandparents usually all your older relatives including aunts and uncles. It's usually a lot of money at once which is why there are so many big sales around New Year's and why lucky bags are a thing

>>9368762
No import fees and domestic shipping prices.

>>9368762
IIRC when Harajuku fashion first took off Japan was in an economic boom, and parents passed part of their earnings onto their children. Later, saving I guess? Japan has a really high cost of living so wages are comparably high; if you're living at home with your parents not paying rent it goes pretty far. Not sure if this is still true today but I know a few years ago there was a big thing with a lot of Japanese young people basically giving up on being able to afford to move out and living at home so they could spend their disposable income on designer goods instead. Same principle but applied in a more alt manner. Also Japanese girls don't tend to post pictures of themselves online as often, and I get the impression a large chunk (especially in the early days) always only ever had a couple of outfits that they just wore out every weekend, rather than a 40+ main-piece wardrobe or anything.

One of the things mentioned in a more recent Aoki interview was that Japan's wages have fallen 9% in real terms over the last decade, which is part of why consumer spending on clothes has declined (although wages did fall by 5% over the Lost Decade in the 1990s as well, and Harajuku was strong then even though lolita only really took off at the end of the decade).

Also, a lot of the "teenagers" in the early G&LB are lying about their age IMO, some of them look far too old and are probably adults living independently.

Well, it's certainly interesting when the Harajuku fashion walk has more foreigners than natives.

>>9365998
or a slav squat

>>9367910
>neo-street style
I know exactly what you're referring to and was trying to find a way to explain it myself.

I don't enjoy most these modern street snaps anymore because they're so random and with no real theme, pic related. It's not a defined [something]-kei, it's just "neo Japanese street fashion". A lot actually looks like it was just thrown together for street snap attention.

>>9369228
Because nobody but tourists got time to walk around in working hours in the middle of the week.

>>9369230
>I don't enjoy most these modern street snaps anymore because they're so random and with no real theme, pic related. It's not a defined [something]-kei, it's just "neo Japanese street fashion".
You can't be into jfashion for long if you think that's something new, that's how japanese streetstyle originally was in the 90s and early 00s, just look at old Kera issues from that time.

>>9367595
>This is exactly what's happened to alt subcultures in the West,
took too long for this to be brought up in the thread. worldwide, this is not a productive time for alternative fashion.

>>9368831
East Asia is not Japan. There is a tradition similar called Otoshidama, but it's for school age kids and not hundreds of dollars.
New Years sales and fukubukuro are to clean out old stock from the previous years. It's considered good luck to do a NY cleaning, most people clean their homes too

>>9366106
its the "normies" who buy bodyline for halloween to be a lolita. i went to a halloween event at a japnaese uni while studying there and i saw a ton of bodyline lolitas. they still followed "the rules" though,which is cool

>>9368908
That doesn't make sense to me. Let's take a store like Spank. A dress from there easily costs 8000 - 10,000 yen. Accessories are over 1000 yen. You want a complete outfit from there, it might run 20,000 yen. don't see how teenagers can afford to buy this, even without international shipping.

>>9369337
That's the same price as an Adidas or Roots jacket and I see teens in those brands here all the time. The rich or dedicated wear trendsetting brands and the rest can cop the look with Axes Femme/Swimmer/ACDCrag/on-style Forever 21 stufff/etc...

>>9369228
Why are the foreigners always hideous AND have terrible fashion sense.

This is why jfashion is dead jfc

>>9368762
>>9368836
>>9368859
Actually, this is what I most struggle to understand. When talking to Japanese people and in Japan 900 yen per hour was seen as a high rate per hour for a part time job. That's not a whole lot considering that a lot of alt fashion is pricier than mainstream fast fashion stuff. Also, Japanese teenagers generally have longer school and studying hours with clubs and cram school on top of this.

It's not like the only expense is clothes either. Going out to eat and for karaoke happens all the time. If they're in uni most of the time they live in a dorm or by themselves as well. So there's food and rent as well. I remember talking to a girl in my uni about axes femme and she said that the clothes were a bit expensive. So if they think like that for less expensive brands, idk how they afford lolita brands.

>>9369337
Except teenagers usually don't have other living expenses. I bought so much back when I just had a minimum wage high school job and didn't own a car yet

>>9369230
>>9369244
I feel like its mostly a Western thing to always be tossing labels on their fashion, instead of it being a "this looks kinda cool together, right?"

>>9369373
I see maybe one attractive native in that picture, and she's dress ok.

>>9369244
Yeah, the shitty mix and match thing was always a thing, but that doesn't mean it looks great.
>>9369396
Not at all? The Japanese made styles like "mori girl", "fairy kei", "decora" and plenty of labels.

>>9369242
The fashion walks are held on weekends, the most recent one being Sunday February 26th.

>>9369373
By and large the apparent foreigners are actually more attractive in this photo.

>>9367735
Even H&M is taking the style. Just look at any catalogue. That never would happen with anti-normie jfash like spank

>>9369389

Have you read >>9369384?

Japanese students have way more school/studying than American ones. They can't afford to work 20 hours a week like a lot of American students.

>>9367603
So much this. I live in New York and I have the same feeling. There's far less of a need for someone to move to NY/London/etc to express themselves through clothing when they can post online and find like-minded people thru places like 4ch and even Facebook.
>>9369508
Different anon but the difference to me is that it seems like Western jfashion wearers cling to these labels and obsess over them in an uncreative, unyielding way.

>>9367735
Nah son it's mainstream. Just because you don't see a ton of people wearing it all the time doesn't mean it's not mainstream. People where I live dress like the clearance rack of kohls but that doesn't suddenly make trendy items less mainstream. Larme is just trendy normie fashion on steroids (and I say this as a wearer of the fashion)

>>9367913
Bad news for you gull. Lolita's spotted earlier today, at harajuku of all places.

>>9369962
I do agree they cling to them obsessively a lot more. Otome-kei is a great example of something the west made that wasn't as specific in Japan.

>>9368762
They also can take advantage of in store sales. It is well known that Closet Child sells clothes in store for 4000 yen or less.

>>9369363
God knows enough kids in my old school wore Adidas and Nike kicks all the time, and designer brands are popular in Asia too. Of course, it's a bit different when it's something like normie sports gear or outerwear that peoples' parents might be happier to pay for than something weird like lolita, but it's a similar principle.

>>9370180
True; a lot of people forget that they only put the higher-value stock on the webshop in the first place, which is part of why you don't usually see oldschool stuff on Closet Child's website even though there's a ton of it in-store.

>>9369967
>Just because you don't see a ton of people wearing it all the time doesn't mean it's not mainstream.
You maybe should look up the meaning of the word before using it because that's the opposite of mainstream.

>>9369967
The sale numbers of the Larme magazine say otherwise, about 15000 copies for each issue aren't much considering how many people live in Japan + overseas buyers.

>>9370388
>>9370402
Larme is kind of normie looking tough. The coords you see in the larme thread are usually the more edgy/OTT coords you can find by larme standards. Normie shops and formerly gyaru brands have been copying things from larme since a couple of years ago. Meanwhile larme also follows mainstream trends, despite what they claim. I don't wear the fashion but I've seen a few issues and there was a lot that looked like normie otona kawaii with a slightly different hairstyle than in other magazines.

>>9370416
More "casual" than "normie" or else we would have to say Fairy Kei is normie too because mainstream stores have been selling vintage-emulating pastel fashion for years already and My Little Pony Japan has collabs with big store chains, like H&M and Spinns for example, for vintage clothes all over the year and I doubt the average person wears pic related.

>>9370425
I'm talking by Japanese standards, I saw a lot of spreads that were just a more pink version of what could be in Sweet

>>9369230
anyone know where the sweaters from? god im in love

>>9370455
Lots of bootleg stylr brands have been doing these lately but this specific one is from http://www.ampmxx.com/ , not avaiable anymore tho.

>>9370416
In the UK a lot of mainstream fashion stores are stocking a lot of larme looking clothes. Not sure why they've taken off here but it's "in" right now.

>>9371154
That's because nymphet and "babygirl" fashion is popular in general for a while already, nothing to do with Larme on its own.

>>9369384
Dude but the thing is, it's the abnormality for a Japanese kid to be paying for their school by thenself, the norm is their parents supporting them through school and even when they leave college they end up moving back to mom and dads to avoid paying rent and food costs.
That's just the norm there , few do have to take care of some costs alone (but usually the family will give them some supplement as well whatever they can afford to) and few do move out for independence but this is not what's considered the usual as it is in the USA where many more kids are expected to take care of school costs more on their own as well as their living costs and etc once old enough to be in college.

>>9367051
It's silly to keep a shop open when one can just sell their products online. Like the U.S., Japan has an excellent post. Online commerce is more popular then ever.

>>9372705
Parents are deabeats in the US

>>9365726
>>9365928

Honestly I think the rise of smart phones and instagram has a lot to do with this.
Fruits magazine got a huge amount of content for free from young cool teenagers and now said teenagers have realised that they can just post their outfits on instagram and get exposure that way instead.
Why would they hang around Harajuku waiting to be snapped when they can do it themselves - there's no incentive to be in fruits magazine now.

Or they've moved onto different styles and ways of dressing and incorporating Streetwear trends coming in from the West like Supreme/Palace/Gosha and Shoichi isn't interested.

It just seems like he wants to take pictures of the same old stuff from the 00s without giving anything back to the people in the photos.

>>9373760
100% agree with this. I think there is a valid opinion that "kids these days" don't wear the fashions out on the street as much and that warrants some melancholy, bit online presence of weird fashions has been pretty great. Sure LJ and more traditional forums might be going the way of the Buffalo, but interest in fashion is hardly dying.

>>9367017
Why does that guy look so familiar?

>>9367595
>Why go out when I can sit at home and get more popularity for being constantly online posting coord shots and interacting with my followers than I could for actually going out and wearing the clothes?


This makes me sad and confuses me. Wearing lolita is not solely for popularity and fame. There are so many of us who dress on a weekly basis and just go out and do regular things. But we are the invisible ones since we care more about the lifestyle and wearing the fashion casually rather than e-fame.

>>9373897
This makes me sad about cosplay too. It feels like the most important thing to many people is getting your picture taken and getting as much attention as possible for a coord/cosplay you worked on for months. The people who wear cosplay for fun or lolita as their 'default' clothing style don't seek attention thus the rest of the community can easily pretend they don't exist.

>>9367022
IS SHE FUCKING WEARING LEGGINGS WITH DREAM SKY AND SANDALS.

https://medium.com/@TokyoFashion/panic-on-the-streets-no-the-end-of-fruits-magazine-is-not-the-end-of-harajuku-fashion-c3692761a507#.5r42rnamz

>>9367238
Could you post a link to Magical's website?

>>9373907
I really hate how /cgl/ has a lack of self-awareness about lolita specifically. We tend to criticize harshly anything not in an oldschool street snap, thus making CoF people think all shots must look polished. It's just a neverending loop now of "look perfect or get called ita". Lolita has really destroyed itself as a street fashion and it really only has itself to blame.

>>9376254
But CoF and cgl is not all lolita's, not even most of them..

>>9376267
Doesn't change the fact it has a big impact on the fashion and it's wearers

But Yumekawaii is fucking everywhere. Harajuku fashion isn't dead, it's just changing its form. The point about Harajuku fashion exhausting itself is quite true, it got way too expensive and took too much effort to emulate a harajuku style so people went into Yumekawaii instead. It's a lot more low-maintenance than something like oshare or decora and far less expensive than lolita. At some point people are going to be bored with Yumekawaii and Larme because they're so dull and then return to the flashier styles again with a new spin. It's a repeating cycle and happens all the time in fashion.

>>9376277
It decides our image but not what I wear so idgaf

>>9376969
>At some point people are going to be bored with Yumekawaii and Larme because they're so dull

Matter of opinion bro

>>9370402
Where did you find current sales numbers for the magazine? Are there numbers for other Japanese fashion mags too?

>>9377086
Was at some interview with the owner so idk if there is any for others, unless there are interviews like that for them too.

>>9377086
I vaguely remember a universal doll post about magazine sales

>>9377102
>>9377101
Ok I found the universal doll post where anon got their info. In it, the author writes that Larme sold 10,000 units for their first issue and 15,000 per month by the third issue.

http://universal-doll.com/2014/08/larme-magazine-introduction/

However, the source she got that number from actually says that Larme sold 100,000 of the first issue and 150,000 of the third issue. (万 is the counter for 10,000 not 1000, so it's 10*10,000 and 15*10,000 respectively). She reported it wrong.

https://nogizaka-journal.com/archives/larme-review.html

Furthermore the Larme website says that 200,000 copies of issue 6 were issued. I can't find information past that point. I would assume they're printing st least that many issues per month. That doesn't necessarily mean 100% sales each month as back issues as available.

Anyway the numbers are completely off. Larme has an impressive readership for a small fashion magazine in a time when print media is dying. I know it's not a huge deal but the misrepresentation of Larme's influence was ruffling my feathers.

>>9377123
Not to mention the article is from 2014.
>>9377031
She means in general. Everything fades out of popularity at some point.

>>9376969
>But Yumekawaii is fucking everywhere

It's not. It might seem like that because it's the predominant form of 'J-Fashion' that's available on the internet, but it's still pretty rare in Harajuku - you don't see people wandering around in yumekawaii everywhere.

Nowadays in Harajuku you'd be lucky to see more than a couple of people in any kind of 'alternative' clothing if you walked down Takeshita. I'm not going to be cliche and say it's 'dead', but it's not the same place it was even just 5 years ago.

I'm not even talking about older Harajuku styles either, I mean just in general - people wearing anything slightly unusual, be it old school Decora or Yumekawaii is rare, you just don't see people dressed in anything interesting there anymore.

>>9376124

I was reading this yesterday, I noticed the @TokyoFashion was quick to downplay the impact of fast fashion with the reasoning that GAP has existed for years in Harajuku, nevermind the fact that GAP existed long before 'Fast Fashion' was in the common lexicon. They might have become more 'fast fashion' now because they have fast fashion chains to compete with, but I felt that was flimsy reasoning. I've got more to say on this, but I won't be able to fit it here in this post.

>>9377123
I mentioned her because I remembered she mentioned where she got the numbers from, but I didn't remember she said anything about larme

>>9377170
Sorry I wasn't really referring to you in that comment. I meant that is obvious that >>9370402 pulled their number from the universal doll post, which has a translation error. Your comment reminded me to look it up.

>>9377161
>you don't see people wandering around in yumekawaii everywhere.
Doesn't change the fact that there are thousands of japanese girls posting their yume coords on Twitter daily. Just because you don't see something it doesn't mean it's not popular, people just don't need to go out anymore to find others with the same interests.

>>9376124
>>9377161

So I wasn't really that impressed with this article by TokyoFashion because I feel like it relies too heavily on an overly convenient argument which is the old classic nostalgiagoggles one:

>"Nothing has changed, you just got older - everything is just as great an amazing as its always been!"

You've probably heard this everywhere as a retort to: "Video games/Anime/Cosplay/Music isn't as good as it used to be! Everything nowadays sucks!" and it works really well at sweeping things under the rug because in a lot of cases nostalgia does play a huge role, but - it does also gloss over the facts and honestly I think it this is out of wishful thinking; just as many people want to believe that things are A-OK, better than ever than others want to believe that everything was better in their day. Especially when you look at something like TokyoFashion.com who's main interest is getting people to visit their site, they can't exactly say "Go home, it's all over here".

The truth is always somewhere inbetween and while the cycle will continue, Harajuku fashion won't ever truly die and it's true that magazines no longer being printed is natural in this day and age, but I don't see how they can skip around the fact that Harajuku is just not the same place it was. Rents are sky high, jingubashi sundays are a thing of the past, stores are closing left right and centre and the whole place is undergoing massive modernization in anticipation of the Olympics.

The popularity of Harajuku as a fashion hub has gradually waned over the past 10 years or so and the government have it in their crosshairs to be a tourist-friendly shopping district. The evidence is everywhere: The new station looks clinical and bland, new shops in Takeshita and Omotesando are all mainstream clothing - I don't know how @TokyoFashion can look at it and conclude that it's normal when it clearly isn't. But hey, occam's razor is always convenient for those who don't like to check facts.

>>9377192
>old classic nostalgiagoggles one
But that's exactly the opposite of it as that would consist of complaining about how everything new is shit because it isn't your old outdated taste anymore.

>>9377188
>Doesn't change the fact that there are thousands of japanese girls posting their yume coords on Twitter daily.

Thousands daily is one hell of a stretch, I'd be surprised if there were hundreds. Are you the same anon who claimed that YumeKawaii was amazingly popular because you had no idea what Design Festa Gallery was and you thought it was hosting some kind of huge YumeKawaii fashion exhibit? I ask because you've got that same over-exaggeration-with-no-actual-facts-to-back-anything-up-thing-going-on.

But hey, if you've got the proof of thousands per day of unique co-ords from different individuals then post the list here. Let's be really kind and assume that YumeKawaii is 6 months old (Which is obviously isn't), that means you've got proof of around 180,000 unique YumeKawaii coord images from twitter to post.

>>9377200
Someone's salty.

>>9377195

It's the one TokyoFashion is gunning for in their article on Medium. Their retort to 'Is Harajuku fashion dying?' is pretty much "No, and the people who say so are Harajuku kids past their prime harking back to better days".

>>9377205

So I'm right then? I had a feeling.

Okay, you can throw around posts like that - or you can start trying to prove your point by supplying evidence. I think ultimatel you're only really trying to fool yourself because the fact is that YumeKawaii just isn't nearly as popular as you think.

Maybe you don't like that and by all means - go out there and make it bigger, but it's just factually not correct to claim it's big, important or popular when it simply isn't

>>9377212
Not the same anon but you aren't providing any evidence either. Besides talking out of your ass, of course.

>>9377213

I don't think you understand burden of proof - You're the one claiming YumeKawaii is big and popular and I'm telling you that it isn't. I can't prove a negative, I can go out and take pictures of Takeshita or anywhere if you want and show you that nobody is wearing YumeKawaii, but all you'd tell me is that I'm not looking in the right place or that it's just one photo.

You can't prove there isn't a teapot orbiting the moon; you wouldn't be able to - your argument doesn't make sense, you can't prove a negative.

The only claims you've given for YumeKawaii being popular is 'thousands' of daily twitter photographs which you haven't posted and some outlandish idea that a couple of artists holding a weekend exhibit of their art (That they paid for) at Design Festa Gallery is a huge YumeKawaii event.

Everything you or anyone has posted about YumeKawaii supposedly being big has just been a whole load of lies based on a complete misunderstanding as to what these 'YumeKawaii' events actually are.

>>9377226
>You're the one claiming YumeKawaii is big and popular and I'm telling you that it isn't. I can't prove a negative, I can go out and take pictures of Takeshita or anywhere if you want and show you that nobody is wearing YumeKawaii, but all you'd tell me is that I'm not looking in the right place or that it's just one photo.

As people mentioned billion times before in this thread, something doesn't need be all over the streets irl in order to be popular, more so in the days of the internet. But yeah, Yumekawaii is so totally not popular that there are new posts in the ゆめかわいい Twitter hashtag every other minute, Disney having whole collections delicated it and new stores and idol groups with that theme being founded on a regular basis and lafary reporting about the latest yumekawaii news, such as brand releases and events, on a daily basis.

Oh, and Rinahamu also obviously retired and has no fans anymore as the icon and founder of it.

>>9377192
>the government have it in their crosshairs to be a tourist-friendly shopping district.

this logic baffles me.

> hey, you know that place tourists like because it's full of quirky shops and people?
> yeah
> let's get rid of all that

Bandai's hops in Harajuku have all been closing (like their last Tamagotchi store), does that mean Bandai is dead too as you see nobody gaming with it's goods in Harajuku anymore? No, they did that because selling online is more profitable as there is no rent to pay and you don't need to transport the stock from the warehouse to each shop location all the time, now they just directly ship everything from the warehouse to the customer and make more profit than ever.

It's the dumbest thing to claim that Harajuku fashion is dead just because shops are closing and you don't see as many people dressed up in there. The shops are closing because they're moving online. People stopped coming to harajuku because it was overtaken by foreigners either trying to be ~true harajuku gurls~ or coming there to stare at the "famous harajuku girls" like they were zoo animals. Harajuku fashion still exists but it got moved online and to social media and the focus got shifted from styles like oshare/decora to yumekawaii/larme which are much more subtle.

>>9377573
Which means Harajuku the place IS dying because there's nothing happening there any more.

>>9377188
>>9377231

Not the anon you're arguing with but I searched ゆめかわいい on Twitter and I'm not getting that many coord photos, mostly photos like pic related.
I also searched ゆめかわいい on Wear and only got about 1,200 results, on Coordisnap it got about 600 results. Instagram was like Twitter with mostly ~aesthetic~ pictures. I got decent results searching a couple brand tags though, but not alot. I would actually like to see the style take off more though, I'm not against or anything.

Current Japanese street fashion trends and research blogs:

http://www.web-across.com/observe/index.html

http://www.apalog.com/street_research/

Current pastel fashion trends
http://www.web-across.com/observe/srnrj2000003fiki.html

I think part of the problem that people are having in this thread is way that OP phrased it. It seems like there are two things being discussed: "Is Harajuku, as a fashion nexus in Japan, dying?" and "Is j-fashion dying?" So perhaps discussing these as seperate questions would be more helpful?

>>9377838
I looked up lolita (both spellings) on WEAR and they only have around 1800 results. I think 1200 is good considering how new Yumekawaii is.

>>9377262
It's cause the Olympics are gonna bring a different type of tourist. They're gonna want to see historic things I'm betting. They're gonna want normie stuff cause they are the kind of people who want to watch Olympic sports and are willing to drop a ton of money to do it.

>>9378672
yeah, but it's not like Tokyo is lacking in places to shop for normie stuff.

>>9377324

Except they don't because the reason Tamadepa closed is because of the falling sales of Tamagotchi goods.

Shops close when companies fail, this is particularly true of Japan which is still far more cash driven than the West. Physical stores are a sign of healthy business, especially for apparel shops where the value of being able to try clothes on is beneficial to the selling of the product.

>>9377231

You really need to stop throwing these stupid over-exaggerated claims around all over the place. Every time you've posted them I've proven them wrong and yet you still come back to them as if they're somehow valid. They're not.

>there are new posts in the ゆめかわいい Twitter hashtag every other minute

4 in the last hour, most if not all appear to be from bots/aggregation accounts. In the past 24 hours most are from the same bots, including one which has over 24,400 posts, others hover around 8000 posts and the legitimate tweets appear to be by the same 10-20 people. This is also not including #ゆめかわいい being used for other things unrelated to fashion.

>Disney having whole collections delicated it

Once again, no facts to back this up. Where are you seeing this? You do realize that just because something is pastel and has Disney characters on it does not make it YumeKawaii. Disney's characters and branding belong to themselves, YumeKawaii doesn't have a monopoly on pastel colors.

> idol groups with that theme being founded on a regular basis

Define 'regular'. Let's assume 'regular' is a week and we know the style has been around for a couple of years, please find me 104 YumeKawaii idol groups.

> lafary reporting about the latest yumekawaii news, such as brand releases and events, on a daily basis

We've been over this, your 'regular dedicated YumeKawaii events' are nothing more than artists renting a small room to exhibit their slightly YumeKawaii inspired art over the course of a weekend that they paid for.

I've shown you time and time again and you're just not taking it in, you keep posting these false 'events' which have nothing to do with YumeKawaii, these 'interviews' that aren't interviews and making these bullshit claims that thousands of people are tweeting about it every minute. They're not. I can fact check them at any time and prove you wrong on each and every one of them and every time it makes you look more stupid.

>>9378688
+ it's not like if tourists would go to shops like H&M and Zara which they have at home in the first place.

>>9379131

Japan (or Tokyo, rather) has a weird understanding of tourism. You're completely right, but that doesn't stop them doing these things, it's a miracle they didn't do the same to Akiba a few years ago although saying that, the new radio kaikan is totally different and much more touristy/family oriented.

>>9369229
Why is there a baby

>>9379461
Slavs have children too.

>>9365998
"rap squat", it's hard style

>>9379131
It's not a coincidence that when these type of shops are coming to a new area it often starts with Zara or H&M, these are massive multinationals with certain influence. I don't doubt they can sell the idea that tourists love their shops.

>>9377226
I think it's you that doesn't understand the burden of proof. You absolutely can prove a negative - literally type 'can you prove a negative' into google.

The thing with Harajuku as a tourist destination is that it's coupled with the Meiji Jingu Shrine so tourists won't stop going there. It's also conveniently located between Shinjuku and Shibuya. In Ten years once the Olympics are done, it'll be a boring shopping district, too popular for the niche fashions to afford the rent.

SOOOOOO yes it's dead? I knew it would die before I got the chance to witness Shibuya Square. Fuck my life :(

>>9382400
>Shibuya
>Harajuku
...do you even Tokyo?

>>9379131
>it's not like if tourists would go to shops like H&M and Zara which they have at home in the first place.

Hahahahaha man I wish. I've been to multiple languages camps to different countries, with different nationalities. And all the other people wanted to do is go to the fucking H&M, Zara, Starbucks, McDonald's and all those shops you have at home. Most of the time I was lucky with at least two other people who wanted to explore the city, but there have been cases in which I had to drag people to go somewhere else (buddy system was an ass).

People like familiarity, especially in a "weird" countries like Japan, where they feel out of place. I can guarantee you, the most visited Harajuku shop is going to be H&M.

>>9365657
Thats the fashion walk. They do that once a month. I'm not really into the fashion but i went with a friend in december and remeber seeing alot of the same people. If you go in the mornings there are more people dressed like that but alot of them are very young.

>>9382419
Harajuku is within Shibuya ward

labeling any sort of style is the first nail in the coffin. actual creative people hate being labeled or put in a box, and are quick to move on.

I'm in Tokyo right now and street fashion here is definitely not dead. It's evolved away from colourful decora - I've seen a lot of punk/gothic looks, some sweet and gothic Lolita, and a lot of Liz Lisa / Swankiss and larme style. Fairy kei isn't very common but I have seen a few people wearing this. Outfits that would be classed as 'yumekawaii' are also common.

Unless you are spending time in Harajuku and seeing these fashions on a day to day basis, I don't think it's right to be saying that certain styles are 'dead'.

>>9383016
What areas are you seeing these fashions in? Is it the classic Harajuku area or is it more branched out?

>>9383030
Not that anon, but every time I go to LaForet there's about a dozen of lolitas, and last weekend there was a bunch of goth spread out in the harajuku-takeshita area. There's more OTT stuff on sundays, but fuck going there on sunday.

>>9383016

What day/time was this? I'm in Harajuku frequently and do not see any of this, we can meet and debate this if you'd like, it could be interesting to learn your perspective of Harajuku fashion.

Are you also able to post some proof please? Also if you could define 'A lot' that would be helpful too.

>>9383049

When was the last time you went to LaForet? I'm assuming you're talking about other floors and not just the basement, correct? I was in Harajuku last weekend and didn't see anything unusual, can you be more specific with the 'Harajuku-Takeshita area' please? Times of day would be useful too, I'd be interested to know what you consider a 'lot' to be. Pictures are also welcome.

>>9384703
Are you autistic or

>>9385147
Maybe she's going through that phase of life where "if I don't see it it doesn't exist"

I'm going to Tokyo in a few days, will I see the "weirdly dressed people" if I go check Harajuku or are they actually gone like all those articles imply?

>>9382400
...are you talking about Shibuya Crossing? That has absolutely nothing to do with fashion. Don't worry, you'll get your chance to snap photos like the dozens of other cringy tourists when other people just would like to cross the damn street in peace.

>>9365657
>How weebs killed Jfashion summarized in a picture
It's funny. In nip non land they consider the fashion to be young/hipster while weebs consider it to be nerdy. Their probably the type of people that scoff at hipsters/youth rebellion in the west.

Want to know what's killing fucking lolita? Fucking brand whores. We need to stop scoffing at handmade items and start encouraging creativity. Look at the way lolita used to look and look at it now. It's nothing but uniform cookie cutter cancer. There were never any "rules" to lolita so stfu about something not being lolita enough to your liking. Just focus on makeing a dress that's based on Victorian doll clothes and make it pretty in it's own way. Fuck all the corporate cock sucking whores chasing after the same print and spending thousands on a status symbol. Half of those bitches fuck old men to afford their stupid status symbol dresses anyhow. The toxicity within lolita needs to end for it to be a real fashion and not a cash cow for AP and BTSSB. If you can't sew try buying from indi brands.

>>9384703
I went to LaForet last damn saturday, don't tell me they aren't there because they ARE. Closet Child was also full (for a value of full since what, eight people fit in there?)

By takeshita-harajuku I mean from the beginning of harajuku st to the end of takeshita st. I'm a goth myself and I ran into about five girls wearing variants of it.

And lmao, go there yourself to take pictures of strangers if you're so desperate.

>>9385164
>>9382400
I'm not surprised people are moving away when entitled brats are so open about wanting to gawk at them like zoo animals

>>9385170
I was under the impression that there was a main street in Harajuku with people

>>9385147
She's trying to bluff the other anon out because she thinks she's some kind of grand expert on J-fashion and the only person who has ever been to Japan or seen a Japanese person. It's pathetic, just ignore her and have the discussion around her.

I don't know anything at all about Harajuku, but I can say that in Osaka there's still a visible alternative scene in Amemura. I didn't see much there during the week, but it was swamped with lolitas and other styles at the weekend.

>>9385317

Shibuya's not in Harajuku, anon...

>>9385220
>I'm a goth myself and I ran into about five girls wearing variants of it.

Were they all white?

>>9385317
Lurk moar

>>9385317
takeshita street anon... is the one youre thinking of

>>9385689
No, all japanese.

>>9385190
>brand is killing lolita
>the entire coord in pic related is ancient AP
It's okay anon you tried

Ugly seiyuus ruined it for you

By seiyuus, I mean escorts lol

>>9385220

And I asked you - are you only talking about the basement? Because LaForet is more than just one floor and you never see lolitas on any other others. The only lolitas you see in LaForet are at the respective brand shops, and even then it's empty most of the time (or there are only 1-2 around)

>By takeshita-harajuku I mean from the beginning of harajuku st to the end of takeshita st.

So you just mean Takeshita then? Seeing as you walk out of the station straight on to Takeshita. Never mind the fact LaForet is on Meiji, you don't sound like you know what you're talking about.

>>9385220
>And lmao, go there yourself to take pictures of strangers if you're so desperate.

I could literally do this if I wanted and have offered but everyone would just tell me that I 'purposely' didn't take pictures of the right people or at the right time or would move the goalposts in some way. I've offered to prove my claims multiple times but whenever I corner someone on them they suddenly go quiet and don't like to respond or instead throw out some asinine insult instead.

>>9385323
>>9385147

I'm offering these people a chance to prove themselves. I can prove that YumeKawaii isn't 'everywhere' that it isn't 'big' or anything like that. I've already done it by factually refuting all the claims people have made in these threads about 'thousands of tweets an hour' (Proven not to exist) 'All these events' (Proven not to exist), 'Idol groups starting regularly' (Proven not to happen), 'Interviews' (Which the claimants haven't even read properly and aren't interviews).

Asking for proof isn't autistic when you make provably false claims, if anyone wants me to uphold my end of the bargain and to prove that YumeKawaii isn't popular, please do tell me how and I will do it. Trying to shout it down as 'autistic' just because you don't want to believe it is Donald Trump 'fake news'-esque stupidity.

>>9387812
Don't know about Yumekawaii, wasn't participating in the thread earlier and couldn't give a shit about it, only chimed in because you're an insufferable holier-than-thou cunt who apparently has nothing better to do than act like you invented Japan on the internet. Get a life, jesus.

What happened to sub-fashions/cultures in America? Like, why aren't there any new ones? I don't think I've seen a new subfashion since the scene and emo days. Is there some reason kids don't want to express themselves anymore? Is it because everything is commercialized? I can't be the only one who feels nostalgic about this shit.
(Stupid make up tumblr subfashions don't count fyi)

>>9388227
I think it's that as we got older we don't follow them as much. They definitely still exist and, as much as the tumblr subfashions are dumb, they're definitely a category.

From what I've seen from popular teen social media people there are a few camps, the classic 'jock' or North East prep look is still very much alive and thriving, then there's the current big subculture of urban streetwear (doesn't really have a name but it's essentially normcore/athleisure) though this has slowly been evolving, the tumblr/alt kid style which I think is what you could argue the current scene/goth/whatever which is weird shirts/prints with thigh highs, silly shoes, 70s style cuts of shirts and pants, etc. It's what the weird kids wear essentially.

What I think has largely changed that because of so much increased media, DEFINED subfashions are less common. So kids are still dressing weird and trendy but instead of saying like "Oh I'm emo" they're hesitant to label themselves because of the overabundance of labels in internet communities.

>>9388227
Nothing happened, we just got old

>>9388227
The information age kills everything via overexposure, and being overly friendly to casuals is damaging to the subculture er, culture. Back before the internet explosion, you really had to had an interest in the thing to be part of a subculture - most posers/newbies either fell in line or grew bored and moved on because it took a lot of money and/or time to keep up with the group. Nowadays people reblog a picture of a badly drawn pink bat and consider themselves super goth, or watch TBBT and think of themselves as huge nerds.

Eventually, the real members of the subculture grow tired of it and become aggressive towards all new members, even those whose interest is genuine albeit superficial.

It doesn't help that when big media picks up on something, it tends to go one of two ways: make it safe for consumption, or demonize it to sell the controversy. This happened in the past too (rembers the all goths are satanists scare?) but now misinformation spreads to fast that it takes very little for peopld to ask "Is a label really worth all this trouble?"

>>9388227
>I don't think I've seen a new subfashion since the scene and emo days.
You mean like Nu Goth, Pastel Goth, Cyber Pop, Steampunk, Hipsters, Soft Grunge, Neo Lolita/Soft Sister/New Wave Nymphet, etc? Do you even internet?

>>9388296
steampunk and hipsters I give it to you, but how are the other subcultures rather than fashion styles?

I don't think strange fashion is going out of style. It is pretty silly to keep a shop going now that most people are shopping online. Keeping a storefront open is really just for show.

Some people can just order their clothes online instead of making a trip out. Perhaps to some extent, hanging out there in the park was a generational thing. Perhaps the kids that did it got older and the newer people are hanging out elsewhere.

>>9388307
>It is pretty silly to keep a shop going now that most people are shopping online. Keeping a storefront open is really just for show.

This death of storefronts bothers me so damn much. I'm not buying clothes in the 100+usd range unless I can try them on first, be they lolita or otherwise.

>>9385190

>>9388304
>subcultures rather than fashion styles
The same way they are in Harajuku, maybe?

>>9388227
>I don't like these fashions therefore they aren't real
U okay?

>>9377324
IT CLOSED???

>>9388338
which is....?

>>9388351
Yeah, some weeks ago.

>>9388364
Oh my god I had no idea... that is beyond depressing, it was the cutest store ever. rip my heart

>>9388227
Strict school dress/uniform codes pretty much destroying youth subcultures at the base level (very few schools allow students to wear anything other than khakis/polos now), mall stores homogenizing all trends, helicopter parents cracking down on the first signs of individuality.

when I was in middle school in the early 00s post columbine, the dress code was modified to pretty much prevent any subculture fashion within its bounds, and then the school district I attended switched over to a solid polos/khakis "dress for success" uniform. School shootings made everyone super paranoid about any kind of alt fashion.

>>9388296
I said that stupid made up Tumblr shit doesn't count.

>>9388304
When was the last time you saw a steampunk kid at school? Do they even have a style of music? Hipsters have always been around and they probably always will be, they're nothing new.

>>9389059
They do in the west at least.. And last time I was in Japan a kid's show was airing that was super steampunk where they flew around an airship playing songs. Having a hard time finding info on it though, but they're starting young.

>>9388977
I don't know if this counts under the homogenizing of trends, but I think it's partially that strange fashion is no longer rebellious. I think it's great that jobs can now be found with colored hair, piercings, and so forth, but that takes the fun out for some people.

I do think styles such as pastel goth count to some degree if it is not watered down. I see many people rocking a really 70's inspired look with strong patterns and crop tops with hippie inspired stuff. Athletic wear is really popular. I think one can only come up with so many fashion styles.

>>9389027
By your logic, Emo and Scene don't count either because they are "MySpace shit", so much for that.

>>9388363
That's exactly the point, did you forget which thread you are in?

>>9390448
Except I would constantly see emo kids walking around campus back in HS. They also had a big music scene, they didn't originate on the internet and they had an actual culture to go with their fashion. What is pastel goth other than dress up clothes? When was the last time you went to a pastel goth concert? What ideology do they stand for? It's pretentious hipster shit and it needs to die.

>>9389067
"Steampunk" is a subgenre of fiction. It's not a movement and the people dressing as it are usually copying science fiction. Same with the bands. A band having a theme does not mean it has it's own genre.

>>9390493
>implying Emo or Scene had an actual subculture background and didn't originate on MySpace
kek

>>9390493
>pastel goth concert
You mean like Bitch Brigade, Mili or Kerli for eample?

>>9385190
I couldn't agree more anon.

>>9390493
>They also had a big music scene, they didn't originate on the internet and they had an actual culture to go with their fashion.
So all or Harajuku doesn't exist according to you either, minus Visual Kei which is dead.

>>9390546
*all of Harajuku fashion

>>9390493
>What ideology do they stand for? It's pretentious hipster shit and it needs to die.
Why are you on /cgl/ again? "It's pretentious hipster shit and it needs to die." after all.

>>9390546
Harajuku fashion is fashion for fashions sake, not subcultures.

>>9390764
But thread is about fashion you dumb fuck.

>>9390539
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo
>Being this big of a dumb fucking hipster

>>9385190
>>9386023
I'm laughing so hard. You think the west pushed the brand whore aesthetic? Sorry, it was Japan. Japan loves brands and brand named goods, of course that would extend into lolita as well.

>>9385190
A-fucking-men, anon. I wish we'd stop contributing to this ourselves with our stupid CoF nitpicking. "The pinks don't match", "those black shoes don't match her coord", "she needs a wig", "she could use a themed bag". Girls don't have unlimited closets to make just one picture perfect photo tailored to your tastes. Stock photos don't always translate in real life, black shoes used to be common like in your photo, wigs are often costumey and not good for normal use, and people can't always get matchy-matchy themed socks, bags, etc. for one coord.

>>9366660
Even way back in 2002, presence on the bridge and in Yoyogi Park was waning. Mid to late 90s was probably the strongest point for Harajuku fashion in a 'harajuku girls' sense. In 2002 it was mostly slightly ropy Visual kei cosplays from what I remember, and maybe a handful of lolitas

>>9389027
Everything is 'made up' to an extent. The internet and social media has completely changed the way people consume fashion, which in turn influences the way trends emerge. They also don't last as long, since information can be spread and burned out very quickly. I don't think thinking of older subcultures pre-internet boom can be used as the benchmark for 'authenticity' though. What we are seeing now is still a phenomenon, it's still 'real'. Don't get me wrong, looking back it can make current styles seem relatively vapid without much message or meaning, but then the need to form distinctive tribes has lessened greatly when we can form groups and share things so easily. The idea of things no longer being cool or 'real' isn't just a modern hipster battle cry either, pretty much whenever anything hit the mainstream in a big way, when gran knew about it, it was already considered dead. Just look at original punk movement.

Subcultures more than ever, can be so quickly and successfully targeted to generate revenue, that by the time elements of that subculture find their way onto the high street, the original founders have already long moved on. Infinite hipster loop.

The most enduring subculture I can think of is probably the goth subculture, it's never been too rigid but has enough distinctive elements to keep it recognizable. It's been picked up by every new generation so far. Finding beauty in the darker things, with an aesthetic to match is probably never going to not be a thing.

>>9382419
what book is this anon? It looks pretty cute!

>>9365657
The korean girl, pink wig, in the front. She looks like "I couldnt do better"( as in she couldnt find a cool group). Ive been laugh for 20 mins.

>>9365726
Lolita is expensive and everyone was making money off of them with no incentive to them.

>>9390773
Did you even read the page you linked? It even says right there that the 00s emo is a, now dead, fad that doesn't have anything to do with the music or actual subculture.

>>9391109
The new Sompo Guide Tokyo.

>>9390983
>goths

Kek you don't know what you're talking about

>>9391219
This. Goth went from undead to just plain dead, pretty much all the big named are hitting the 40-50 yo age range with nothing to replace them except pastel "goth" wannabes.

>>9385190
old school looks way better

>>9389059
why does it have to have music to match? that's pretty stupid

>>9391219
>>9391292

It's still niche but far from dead. I can't speak for the rest of the world but within the UK, goth is very much still alive, you see the odd goth pretty much everywhere. Whitby Goth Weekend (WGW or simply 'Whitby') for instance, is still extremely popular and you see goths of all ages there including the 'pastel goth wannabes' you describe and younger people that have a more 'tumblr goth' look. Also the 'not a real goth' shtick is just tiresome, I know people like that, the ones that think that anyone that doesn't worship or know all the intricate details of trad goth bands is inauthentic and just posturing.

>>9366097
You just dont want to admit you are part of the problem. Westerners in an attempt to join made the scene to rigid- too many rules. Take the u.s.a/russian meetups. They take pictures of people of colour, fat/pudgy, older, or not the right type of nerdy and make fun of them without bluring the face. Alternative lolitas need to start meetups and lolita will comeback.

>>9392126
it's almost like subcultures evolve and change over time or something

>>9366113
I think they are doing shinto pray. The rap style comes from african americans praying as well. Dont listen to the other people. Lol.

>>9390784
No one said whether it was Japan or the west that lead to the brand whore cesspool of our time

>>9369228
Katie horse face lmao
Anyway this isn't the worst one i've seen. Everyone looks like they put decent effort.
But yea I completely agree it is just a tourist phenomenon at this point.

apparently it's back? but it's so ... meh. red western high fash weirdness. it is missing that "i dressed this for myself" factor https://twitter.com/TokyoFashion/status/844039003565314049

>>9400796
h&m catalog

>>9400799

>>9400800

>>9400804

>>9400796
Pic related would be a article about Tokyo streetfashion of the 30s, depending on the times people just don't dress like this and the whole worldwide economy crisis doesn't help.