/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

I grew up Catholic (don't really consider myself Catholic anymore, more so agnostic but I do pray sometimes when I'm really anxious about a loved one). I love religious iconography in lolita, but sometimes it looks tacky (those skewer headdresses are horrid). The same rules apply to it as usual for the most part - try to keep the costumey levels to a minimum and if you really have to go all out, make sure it's good quality and well done, rather than cable ties or kebab skewers. My tastes lean towards old school, but you definitely want to channel a timeless Mana outfit rather than looking like you're trying to pile on all the edgy trends (halo, Madonna crown, veil, etc).

You may like this Tumblr: http://godblessnunlolita.tumblr.com/

>>8768371
To clarify, you want to look like this (could add something like stained glass stockings if it's not enough for you, but let the garments speak for themselves):

>>8768375
Not this (imagine it with an unnecessary underskirt too, ew). The OP image isn't exactly the best example but it's mostly the makeup that's offensive.

>>8768378
Another good example

>>8768352
I like the look of nun-inspired lolita but I can definitely see why some people find it offensive.
I'm not Christian myself and would feel very uncomfortable wearing symbols from a religion that isn't my own so I look for nun-inspired pieces that have no crosses on them and find ways to coord them in a "plain" gothic lolita way rather than specifically going for the nun-like look.
It does mean that I have to pass on pieces like Nameless Poem, which is too bad because I think it's beautiful, but oh well, you can't have everything in life.

>>8768378
Another good example (the crucifix is a bit too large and gaudy but eh)

>>8768378
God almighty I am so glad madonna crowns stopped being popular

Thanks for the replies so far!

I chose the picture because the coord was quite a good example of what I imagine. The makeup though is not my taste and I think it's too intense for lolita. (Not intending to bash the girl on the image though^^)

DESU I kind of love the madonna crowns, especially if they're combined with flowers but it's not the main thing about nun inspired outfits to me. I mostly really like the dresses and the collars combined with a cross necklace :)

>>8768383
And a godawful one (sorry, Marie). Too many edgy items together and it looks terrible (the headpiece, although it can never really look good, veil, the huge cross, bible bag, printed stockings with printed JSK, normalfag Jeffrey Campbells used in pastel goth and other ~edgy~ styles)

>>8768386
I am biased against madonna crowns as they always look tacky to me, but I suppose if you made a smaller one with decent materials it could -maybe- work. I am bored so if anyone else wants me to post more good vs bad images I will.

>>8768388
Please do! It'll be nice to see more good examples, especially.

>>8768388
We just gotta wait for baby to release a Madonna crown

>>8768393
This is a good example of a bit more OTT nun coord done right. The makeup and accessories do a lot of talking but aren't awkward looking and mesh well together.

>>8768397
Too much going on and cheap materials, the pose makes it look comical too

>>8768400
Bad file size but I really like the look of the detachable nun collars worn over other dresses with a matching print. Religious inspired but subtle.

>>8768402
Dress is frumpy and costumey, hair pieces look cheap. The bag doesn't match and the makeup is lacking. Don't be afraid to wear gloves if they're nice quality with these kind of outfits. Shoes are eh but could be worse.

>>8768402
I LOVE this one! Detachable collars add so much to coords, I don't know why they're not popular.

>>8768397
THIS is one of my fav coords. I love how ott but simple it manages to be. I think people got a bit excited over the virgin mary crown + peignoir combo so there were a bunch of coords like that...
about the religious thing, I don't think it's weird at all. I was born and raised catholic and despite being agnostic rn I think this is harmless. I quite enjoy it despite lacking faith, all in all it's an aesthetic. I love it because it's a mix of gothic and reminds me of old school trends with a twist. It's probably one of the few substyles who manages to update some OTT into gothic, and when done well it's wonderful and eerie.
I also notice a lot of people getting mad at nun substyles aren't even catholic/from catholic backgrounds lol

>>8768378
>>8768383
Madonnas crowns look like shit 98% of the time in lolita, and crucifixes, especially big ones, will always look really tacky. Even huge crosses look gaudy already without Jesus stuck on it.

Even being pretty devout, I don't really care if you're not a Christian and wearing religious themed coords. However, I do feel saddened when people show disrespect to the religion (Christianity or not) while wearing things that relate to it. Actual rosaries are also a pet peeve; I wouldn't wear a hijab or a Buddha necklace even if half my family is Buddhist. But I don't let it bother me too much, because I accept that there will always be people who will shit on your beliefs no matter if you're atheist, Christian, Muslim, etc.

Religious people are fucking annoying and appropriating religion isn't really edgy anymore as its been going on for quite some time.

>>8768586
>However, I do feel saddened when people show disrespect to the religion (Christianity or not) while wearing things that relate to it. Actual rosaries are also a pet peeve; I wouldn't wear a hijab or a Buddha necklace even if half my family is Buddhist.

Christian here, but a Lutheran to be precise, so I have a disconnect from Catholicism. I agree with every thing you said, anon. Rosaries should be off-limits, because it is a specific icon to a religious rituals. The cross? Not so much. I don't like any depictions of Christ on the cross for aesthetics alone, but the cross is just an icon.

>>8768378
I am the only person who seems to really appreciate a well-done Madonna crown. Mostly because it harks back to the old art. But, I don't like it if it isn't pulled off well, and how to do that is so hard to define.

>>8768718
Shut up.

I grew up Catholic and while I don't have a problem with the crosses and other iconography, I really don't like rosaries in fashion. Rosaries are objects of devotion, not necklaces, and I find it very disrespectful. But I wouldn't ever say anything to someone I didn't know wearing one out.

Call me an edgelord, but I don't really care about "disrespecting" religion to be honest. There will always be someone who finds something offensive even if you try your hardest not to be, so whatever. I'll wear rosary. I'll wear things related to any religion, really. Living or "dead". I don't think it's a big deal.

I'm an agnostic atheist anti-theist btw

>>8768774
Same here, wearing rosaries as necklaces is pretty disrespectful and also looks really stupid. They're objects meant to help you pray. It's like sticking a Jewish mezuzah on a headband because it "looks cool". If you really like the look, just get a beaded necklace with a cross, not a real rosary. Crosses are such a widely used symbol that I don't mind them being used in lolita fashion. Christian iconography has a huge and fascinating history, so I can't really blame people for wanting to imitate what they see in art, w/r/t the Madonna crowns and all. Just don't be a dick about it.

>I am the only person who seems to really appreciate a well-done Madonna crown. Mostly because it harks back to the old art. But, I don't like it if it isn't pulled off well, and how to do that is so hard to define.

OP here, no, you're not :)
Actually I really like them. More like veils, actually. I think that Himezawa's is a bit over the top. They should be more delicate. Less spikes I'd say.
this is an example of what i really like.

>>8768586
>I wouldn't wear a hijab
Okay but a hijab is completely different to a crucifix or a rosary. It's not a sacred item, it's literally any piece of cloth that's covering your hair at the time, and non-believers of all faiths have to wear them when in sharia countries, when visiting a mosque or even sometimes when visiting a Muslim's house. They're not off-limits to outsiders in the way actually "Sacred" Religious objects are.

>>8768838
In a way I guess that's a good thing. Its a visible symbol that you're a person I don't want to hang out with because you're either a) an edgelord or b) tacky as shit.

>>8768966
Then we both win, because I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who is so quick to judge others based on something so ridiculous

>>8768352
I'm in that image, I got called out on the town Facebook page for wearing this to class.

I explained I was not intending on offending anyone, I was just wearing something unique for Halloween.

The deal was that there was a Christian motivated shooting at school a month prior, almost to the date. And the crosses I guess flipped a few people into thinking I was being offensive towards those who were christian and had lost their lives on campus earlier in the term.

The mods came and deleted it all though. I sold the dress after that all went down.

>>8768916
>not over the top, delicate
>posts that picture
Lol, hope you're not selfposting.

>>8768999
This is actually really sad. I'm sorry you felt you had to sell the dress, it's one of my favorites, really beautiful. People can be such fucking assholes.

>>8769025
Multiple people stood up for me thankfully, but still. I got a new gothic dress to replace it. But, some people are so rude

>>8769014
I swear I'm not the girl in the image, don't do her injustice
I meant that this headdress is mostly featuring flowers and not as many spikes.
I was rather talking about the amount of spikes on a madonna crown which for me makes the difference.

Personally as a catholic I see no issue with coords using religious icons. It's not insulting the faith by any means. I do kinda get miffed when it's the only one seemingly touched. That any other faith is AMG CULTR APPROPRIATION. But besides that I think having styles inspired by religion is fine. It's not like you're running around in Sexy halloween nun with a ruler to spank the naughty or anything.

>>8768999
>things that didn't happen

>>8769046
Believe what you wish, I live in a small town and things always get blown out of proportions, especially after a mass shooting that rocks the community.

I'm Catholic (no longer practicing, don't go to Church unless it's on Christmas with my family) and went to a Catholic high school where I was taught by nuns who lived in the cloister on campus.

Seeing people dress up as nuns is a bit...weird, considering I know they're just regular ladies who typically wear their hair close cropped so they can wear their white coif without it moving much. They have bbqs and wear normal clothes and look like a bunch of elderly biker ladies who would hug you.

I'm not really mad when people dress up like this, but that's mainly because I know there's no use in getting mad or offended because it won't stop anything. I live and let live. But if I had to choose, I'd rather people stick to small influences rather than going OTT with it. When people dress up with big Madonna crowns, or use Saint's iconography and hand poses, or wear giant crucifixes, or plaster crosses in giant embroidery everywhere, I remember that people actually died because of those things. Often in horrible ways. It feels disrespectful to their memory, and I know people aren't intending it to be, which actually somehow makes the the disrespect worse in a way. Like people didn't even stop to think how it disrespects the people who suffered for it, because all they saw was giant cathedrals with stained glass and said "Oh, pretty!"

So in short, it looks a bit silly and disrespectful to me, but people gotta live and let live.

Fellow Catholic gulls, how do you feel about mantillas/veils in Lolita? I was just gifted a few for my birthday, handmade by nuns and everything. I would like to use them for mass, but maybe only on days of holy obligation, because I really don't want to be that guy. For Lolita, well I will be honest they are raschel lace and I'm not sure if I will be booed off the stage, so to speak. And regardless, thinking of wearing them that way makes me feel real guilty and I'm not sure why.
>inb4 intrinsic Catholic guilt
Probably?

>>8768999
Dammit, Carson.

>>8769056
Was it the Oregon one with the /r9nk/ robot?

>>8769090
First catholic anon here. The way I see it is. If I got upset by anything inspired by the faith. I'd have to be equally upset by anything in the church that was made or built by non practicing or such folk. And I just don't have the energy to be perpetually offended by everything.

>>8769090

Use them on days of holy obligation, and probably steer away from wearing them in lolita. The nuns didn't make it for that, and lolitas will chew you alive for cheap lace, so it really benefits no one here.

Buy a fancy one made in China if you really want to wear one in lolita.

>>8769100
Yeah, it was.

>>8769044
You have the most reasonable opinion on the matter I've seen in this thread or anywhere else, for that matter

>>8769109

>it's reasonable because it lets me do things I already want to do guilt free

Oh for fucks sake.

>>8769112
>I like to put words in other people's mouths to prove my point

I think it's reasonable because she's not looking to start fights with people over something like this, and because she realizes there's a difference between taking a shit on someone's faith and wearing a symbol as part of a fashion ensemble.

>>8769109
Aww thank you! The way I see it. The Catholic Church didn't come crumbling down because of The Davinci Code. It's surviving the many cheapy plastic Nativity scenes put up to tie in Suburban non practicing Christmas lawn themes. It'll continue on just fine if Britney from New York dons a Madonna inspired coord.

>>8769118

To some people there is no difference between "taking a shit on someone's fatih" and using it as a shiny sparkle on a fashion ensemble because they think it looks edgy. They're not unreasonable.

They're unreasonable if they dump paint on said outfit, they're not unreasonable if they discuss why it makes them uncomfortable with the person wearing it.

>>8769108
I'm sorry to hear it anon, I was following that one like crazy because I happened to be scanning that board that day (I wanted to see if they had the gall to invite anyone to winter ball) and this comes up and it was just awful. I'm sorry the timing was just that bad and I hope you can get that dress again and feel lovely in it.

>>8769112
Hun if your faith is shook up because someone is wearing a dress. You need to work on it. Guilt by association is not to be admired.

I grew up in an agnostic protestant christian environment, in a way that faith was mostly something that we only partook in by going to church on easter or something, otherwise it doesn't affect our lives.
I'm not catholic, so I can't speak on the nun or mantilla issue, but crosses to me are no biggie. Even my grandmother who pretty devout doesn't think it's a big deal, and I've never met another christian who does. Actual rosaries however are a bit more sensitive to some, since they're a religious item used in prayer. To me an inspired design is fine, but I wouldn't wear a real one myself. I also find over the top jewelry with christ on the cross to be a bit tasteless, it's a powerful image and shouldn't be used without thought.

Like other anons have stated, I'm mostly concerned with the fact that usage of christian imagery in fashion and such is dismissed while any other religion is suddenly holy and untouchable without everybody screaming cultural appropriation. Having someone say that your religion or something else that's important to you isn't important isn't fun.

>>8769128

My faith isn't shook up. It's not guilt by association, I don't feel guilty. I feel like people using this as edgelords are edgelords, and people using this purely because it's pretty don't respect its history, and people feeling uncomfortable with that isn't unreasonable.

There are unreasonable ways to express that discomfort, but feeling that discomfort itself isn't unreasonable. It's like if someone wore seven purple hearts pined to their punk jacket. It doesn't make people disrespect the Purple Heart veterans any more, it makes people look side eyed at this person using it as a fashion accessory.

>>8769124
Again, you are putting words in people's mouths and making shit up. Who says that they're doing it because they think it looks edgy? You're incapable of talking about this without coloring it to suit your needs.

What I think is unreasonable is telling people that they can't wear a religious symbol, or if they do their a bad person who needs to be avoided.

>>8769138
>their

Oops. *they're

>>8769136
Pray tell, how is anything shown in this thread being an edgelord. You honestly are clutching at straws. No one in here has shown anything that was taking a shit on the faith. Just thoughtful well put together outfits. No one is wearing the cross upside down. doing inappropriate posing. They were merely inspired by the faith.
Military fashion will always be a thing, that's never gonna change so you're barking up the wrong tree. Veterans care when it's some 20 something wearing a uniform to get freebies. Not a pin that is clearly a statement of fashion.
Yes, your faith is shaken, because you're not sound enough in it to not be offended by something that has no bearing on the history nor the growth of it. By your logic we should then be upset by anything brought forth in media that slightly diverts from the faith.

>>8769138

Ok, if not for the reactions tell me why you're doing this.

The way I see it there's only two reasons:

1. Seeking reactions, to be unique and be looked at for any reason

2. Thinking it looks pretty

Both reasons are not enough to avoid the side eye. Thinking it looks pretty is disrespecting its history. On the opposite spectrum, wearing Nazi uniforms because "Hugo Boss!" They may look sharp but they have a history that people need to understand. Looks alone are not an excuse to use something in fashion.

I'm NOT going to yell at someone in public wearing this. I'm NOT going to throw paint at them. I'm NOT going to lecture them.

But what I object to is the first anon saying that the most reasonable way to react to these outfits is to accept them as non offensive. They're not the worst outfits in the world, but they deliberately cross lines, and telling people that they're unreasonable to be offended is unreasonable to me.

>>8769150
Offense is taken not given anon.

>>8769103
That's true. And in this case its really harmless I think. Veils fit with the modest aesthetic of Lolita and looks lovely. I guess I was trying to figure if I could bring myself to do it myself.
>>8769105
Thank you anon, that is likely what I will end up doing. And it really helped define where my trepidation was coming from.

>>8769145

Saying my faith is shaken is deliberately misreading my comments. And plenty of veterans do get offended at military fashion, but like the Catholics they know yelling at people won't stop them. We live and let live because we know it's not worth arguing.

I'm not telling anyone they should react a certain way. I'm saying telling people shouldn't say that the most reasonable way to react is not to express any discomfort if you feel it.

>>8769153

That is the most nonsensical statement I've heard. People can intentionally set out to give offense. Now people may not react. But that doesn't change the original intent of the first person.

>>8769159
You're misusing words now. You're taking offense not having discomfort. You're taking something that until some time ago you likely had no knowledge of and had no bearing on your views of the faith.
And deciding it somehow alters it in some magical way. Despite it in no way going to change it. It's Your issue, not the issue of all in the faith. Yours and maybe a minority. And that's it.
The faith will continue as you sit back muttering about how dare they make YOU uncomfortable.

>>8769173
Not the same anon you're arguing with, but the point of this thread is to discuss how people feel about Christian religious imagery in coords. This anon says it gives her discomfort. Telling her she shouldn't be uncomfortable is stupid. She's allowed to feel how she wants. She's allowed to think people who use or misuse iconography and symbols look stupid. She's allowed to feel disrespected.

>>8769173

...what? I've had knowledge of this for over twenty years now. Why do you assume I don't? I'm bringing this up in a very relevant thread. You've never seen me go into the Gothic threads and start ranting. I live and let live, but that specific anon saying that the most reasonable opinion in the the thread was the one that allowed them to do whatever they wanted with no repercussion did in fact give me offense.

This does not magically alter anything about my faith, no more than seeing someone wear a combat jacket as fashion would alter someone's job or feelings in the military.

I do agree that I'm taking offense now in this thread that has devolved into an argument (and I take full responsibility for my part in that) but when I see someone out in the threads or the street wear this I feel discomfort. And that's what I was speaking to earlier.

>>8769180
This argument was started because the uncomfortable anon got pissed cause someone called the one reasonable anon reasonable. She wants to have her feelings catered too and didn't like someone posting they agreed with someone else. Keep up.

>>8769150
Someone can be perfectly aware of the history of a religion and wear it's icons because they like how it looks without being disrespectful. The fact that you don't see how this can be is nuts.

If lolitas start wearing swasticas or kkk hoods, things designed for hatred and death and fear, then we can talk about that

I wasn't saying it's unreasonable to be offended! You can take offense at the color red if you want. It's unreasonable to judge people based on that offense and make assumptions about people, try to get them to do what you want, etc

>>8769184

Correction, I felt it was silly that they declared it the "most" reasonable opinion. I actually am aligned rather closely with the original anons feelings.

I just see this over and over and not just related to this fashion. Someone will come in to a thread discussing something that offends people and says "This doesn't offend me and I'm part of group X" and everyone gathers around and declares that the perfect opinion. You see it with kimonos (Well I'm Japanese and it doesn't bother me) with dreads (Well I'm Black and it doesn't bother me) with offensive jokes (Well I'm X and it doesn't bother me, I laugh at all the South Park jokes), you see it with everything.

Now I'm not here to argue about those other things, what I'm saying is its a trend when someone is discussing something that makes people uncomfortable, the most praised opinion is someone of the in-group saying it's ok with them. It's just such a common trend with EVERY discussion that touches on sensitive topics I rolled my eyes at it.

>>8769195
Well that because people in general don't like having something that they understand as a non threat. Be declared as one. So gravitate toward the person shrugging it off to return to life. It's human to want to share and discuss. Not be closed off and high and mighty about being so.

>>8768999
I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I think anons like >>8769046 either don't live in the US or don't live in the heavily Christian areas of the world. Acting like something vaguely religious and/or gothic is a personal insult to them is something that happens more than I'd like it to.

Christian imagery aside, are jewelry or coords inspired by other religions a thing? Or are nuns/crosses/etc just the most recognizable and/or popular?

I've been really curious about whether incorporating a pentacle/pentagram would be a valid option.

>>8769195
Do you not know what figurative speech is. They clearly just meant to say "this is reasonable. I agree." Exaggerating for effect.

>>8769199
I've seen them in Halloween coords, but if you're into it I don't see why you couldn't do it regularly. I don't know that I've ever since a pentagram print though.

>>8769199
I've seen people try with handmade pieces, but it generally looks like a clusterfuck.

(I saw a shinto "miko" wa lolita outfit in the tags on tumblr at one point, but it just looked like a really bad Kikyo cosplay)

>>8769188

I can understand how they might not feel its disrespectful, and be completely knowledgeable about the history and using the fashion to express that love of it. But I also understand that people may also be offended at what they perceive as using it just for fashion's sake because people aren't mindreaders. And no matter how well intentioned the first person is, they have to understand they will always run that risk. And that the people who feel discomfort or offense at their outfits are allowed to feel that way.

As for swastikas, I can go into the boystyle threads and find you military inspired coords that heavily draw on Axis lines. Some times actual swastikas are used, but to this community's credit I see them being eaten alive. I've seen many gothic threads draw heavily on the inspiration of things that cause hate and death and fear, those last two are highly prevalent in gothic tones. But we can set that aside since that's not the purpose of this thread.

Judging people based on offense is a natural human reaction. Everyone in this thread is doing it one way or another. You all are getting offended at me and are trying to make me say that wearing these things is right (or at least to stop talking about my distaste) and I'm getting offended at you trying to make you see that dismissing others offense is in and of itself offensive. I would never demand someone change their outfit, but I reserve my right to side eye them hard.

>>8768999
lmao why the fuck would you go to class dressed like that?

>>8769197

I absolutely agree. I just rolled my eyes when it appeared and dramatically called out "For Fucks sake"

>>8769203

I don know what figurative speech is. I then replied with my own "For Fucks Sake".

It then spiraled into an argument which I am responsible for, but don't regret because it's brought up several key discussion points.

If your faith is shaken because of someone taking elements from your religion and using it in a costume, then you really have some soul searching to do. A costume, unless it is depicting something violent and hateful, is not inhibiting your human right to worship in whatever way you deem worthy.

The Book of Mormon musical didn't destroy the LDS church, and the Da Vinci Code didn't topple the Roman Catholic Church. Take a leaf from their books, instead of crumbling, the LDS church saw the musical as an opportunity and bought ad space in the playbill where they posted a Mormon ad.

If your faith is so shaken by a harmless image, then you really have to work on strengthening it. An image really shouldn't shake your faith so easily. Discomfort from an image is understandable, but like most things in life they will exist and will continue to exist. The best way to deal with such feelings is to shake it off and press on forward.

Don't let such a thing offend you.

I love you guys and I like seeing peoples opinions on this topic, but please post more coords too?

Does anyoneveryone make the giant rosaries, like the ones you see nuns/priests wearing at their sides? I'm not sure if this is only an Order of Saint Dominic thing, but the real ones are pretty damn expensive. Pic related, but with beads and chain preferably.

>>8769209
Did you seriously just say I reserve my right to judge when that's literally in the book to not do?

>>8769216

No ones faith is shaken by these things. Where did anyone ever say that?

>>8769205
I've seen only one print with one, and even then it's pretty small. I want to start building a more gothic wardrobe, and many coords predictably include crosses. While I have no problem myself with people wearing them I'm not part of that religion so it would feel weird to use them.

But pentagrams aren't immune from scrutiny either, of course.

>>8769216
I agree with this fully.

>>8769225
Maybe the person legit whining about being uncomfortable about someone daring use elements of their faith in a fashion?

>>8769222

Oh for the love of all things green, here's a perfect example of people throwing around terms they don't understand the context to.

Catholics are not allowed to "judge" in the sense you're not allowed to say "You're going to Hell/you're unloveable". It is only up to God to judge if you're going to hell. Judgement in this case literally applies to the afterlife.

I cannot judge anyone to be worthy one way or the other. I can "judge" that your shoes pink clashes with your dress.

The word "judge" has become much more loosely defined as languages have changed and evolved. In its original form and original understanding no one was ever blocked from thinking someone looked a bit silly.

>>8769234

...why on Earth would someone dressing themselves in lace shake my faith? I'm uncomfortable with it, absolutely. I think it looks silly, yes. It doesn't shake my faith in the slightest.

>>8769236
Kek, you're the one sitting on your ass declaring the right to judge based on a person's attire rather than their character of person.

Does anyone have this dress?

Then why are you making such a huge fuss over it? If it makes you uncomfortable, keep scrolling.

>>8769246
No but it's one of the few bl pieces I want.

>>8769240
Than why are you so uncomfortable about it? Then why did you get so upset when someone agreed with the reasonable anon. You're the one currently making mountains out of molehills no one else.

>>8769226
Why couldn't this just be a nun lolita thread

>>8769242

What I "judge" when I see someone dressed wearing Christian imagery is that this person is dressed in a way I personally wouldn't and probably has a limited understanding of the historical context, or they're deliberately wanting someone to react. Knowing this fashion, I just assume they're following trends and not thinking about it too hard.

I don't judge them to be mean, I don't judge them to be a bitch, I think to myself "Huh, another nun coord. Wonder why they even want to do this. Oh look, they did a Madonna crown. Kek, they're going to get eaten alive on cgl since it's been a month since the crowns were in style." and click on to the next image.

>>8769255
Thread title is legit Nun/Religious inspired

>>8769212
Because, lolitas wear Lolita to school, check CoF, it's not unheard of anon

>>8769259
So again like every other post you've made you're judging and putting words into people's mouths. move along already.

>>8768764
>Shut up.
Lol, is that all you got.
I grew up Christian. You're silly.

But you STILL posted in reply to them talking about how uncomfortable they make you rather than moving on like you're implying.

>>8769259
>>8769253
Both of you, please shut up.

>>8769083
The thing is though, if you're European, the people who died are probably some of your ancestors. The things that happened to Catholics kind of belong to Europeans as a whole, it's an undeniable part of our heritage because the influence of the church is so ubiquitous. What someone takes away from that, even if it's shallow, is completely up to them.

>>8769268
Hello person that is so obviously new, learn how to use the board first before you try to just shout at people on here.

>>8769083

People have died due to pretty much everything, though.

>>8769261
I know but there are very little images being posted and it's like this thread was an excuse to have a religious discussion.

Inb4 someone bitches at me to contribute, I'm on mobile at work, so I can't till I get home

>>8769253

1. People died for these symbols, they poured every drop of their hope and love into them. They spilt blood and tore families, they created havens on Earth and they created hells. These symbols have deep history behind them, and much of it was not good. Much of it was. To use this as a fashion symbol doesn't disrespect God (personally if He exists He probably has bigger things to worry about) but disrespects the real living people who suffered and worshiped and danced and laughed and prayed. It insults their bones and their memories.

You can tell me God wouldn't get mad, but you can't tell me Jean from medieval France who's job it is to hold up the Banner of Cross and is getting shot at for it wouldn't be spitting mad at someone prancing around like this.

2. On the fashion side, the parallels it draws forth runs against what lolita is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a demure fashion, but setting it up in comparison to a nun's habit makes it look far too short. Also since nun's have been fetishized since their founding (looking at you weirdly sexual tales of female Saints clothes falling off when they die) and since the #1 most common use of a short nun habit in fashion is sold in sex shops, it just seems like it deligitimizes and adds a fetish angle to lolita. We already have sissys and age players, and everyone gets mad at them for adding fetishist angles to lolita. I've seen people unwittingly post nun-coords they stumbled across on the internet to porn blogs not realizing it's supposed to be lolita and not a fetish costume.

>>8769286
Enough already.

>>8769286
Do you mean...Joan of Arc? kek nutty anon shush up and move along everyone else did

>>8769304

No I did not. She wasn't in charge of holding the banner. I just gave a random John Doe name to an example.

>>8769286
I would take this more seriously if this wasn't posted to a board dedicated to vanity. I wonder if you care this much who died because of the abrahamic religions, or do they not matter?

>>8769322

I do care. But you don't see people putting embroidered Stars of David all over big poofy gowns. If that happens, I'll side eye them too.

I'd care if they did it with non-abrahamic religions too. I just wouldn't feel it was my place to speak up too much because I don't have the necessary context and it's up to the people whose religions it is.

>>8769322
Seeing how they legit just made up a fantasy pity the dead person argument, do you really want to take anything they say serious?

>>8769326

Ok then, my argument still stands for the living if you don't respect the dead. How about all the people in India who are getting killed for wearing the cross right now?

>>8769286
1. Well, Jean from France is dead so it's not like he will know anywho. If the symbol means SO much to those who used it, then why would they so easily get upset at some random person using it?

I'm the anon who mentioned the pentagram; the pagans who used it centuries ago probably "danced and laughed and prayed" too, and also faced violence for their beliefs. Especially from Christians. (But that's the past so it's not worth getting obsessed with that sort of thing) Point is, people use symbols like the pentagram, and yes even the cross, because it looks cool or is "edgy". It doesn't hurt me though, because it doesn't lessen the value it holds for me. I would rather people not be disrespectful of things, but there are always going to be idiots and you just need to get over them.

2. Everything is fetishized. It's unfortunate, but that's people for you. Again, because you can buy a skimpy costume of something doesn't mean it corrupts the original from being what it is. As for the length? Technically, lolita is sometimes inspired by roccoco/Victorian/etc styles and the hemlines were also quite low. Is it fetishizing those fashions too? t.b.h if you're getting posted to porn sites as a lolita and aren't an ero-loli you're either doing it wrong or they gots some prudish tastes.

>>8769338
Thou shalt not bear false witness Now please bugger off back to your hole.

>>8769345

>If the symbol means SO much to those who used it, then why would they so easily get upset at some random person using it?

Are...are you hearing yourself anon? Did those words just come out of your keyboard?

>I would rather people not be disrespectful of things, but there are always going to be idiots and you just need to get over them.

Is this the same person? You just answered your own question then.

I understand why people don't say anything and move on. That's the most productive use of anyone's time 99% of the time. I know my arguments here won't change a thing. I did want to start a discussion though.

As for the fetishization aspect, one could argue that is is a fetishization of rococo fashions, but I would argue it's not quite for the simple reason that rococo fashions don't start out already heavily fetishized like the nun habits do. There's so much artwork of regular habits (not latex or skimpy) being fetishized dating back hundreds of years. Nun outfits started out in the hole.

>>8769346
>Thou shalt not bear false witness

Where have I? I have not lied about anything. People are getting killed in India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_violence_in_India)) and people were driven out in medieval France for even the hint of impropriety to the cross so a statistically average man fighting under the banner of the cross wouldn't be cheerful about this from a purely historical perspective.

>>8769367

What is the appeal of nun lolita?

I grew up in a stringent Catholic family and I always thought nun attire was pretty damn ugly, some nuns are pious and mean as hell. I haven't been impressed with the themed dresses for lolita, either.
I probably sound bitter but I just hate religious themed lolita styles in general. I know some people who are irreligious or who just wear the stuff ironically, but I get uncomfortable having to look at the symbolism that I've grown to truly disgust. IMO, it's fair for me to say I hate it due to preferences just the same as someone can say they hate other general-themed lolita pieces like carousel prints.

>>8769360
Perhaps I phrased it wrong, but if their belief and faith in the symbol is so strong than it's not going to be shaken by such a small thing as someone wearing a cross when they aren't part of the religion, etc.

I never said discussions were bad. I think that when civil, they are great ways of understanding things.

>>8769376
Oh and strangely enough, I hate crosses/nun themes but I adore stained glass prints? I know I'm fickle.

>>8769377

See, this has come up several times in this thread and I just don't understand. People keep saying that their faith shouldn't be "shaken" by these outfits- where are they getting the idea that anything's shaken? People can not like an outfit or substyle and remain secure in their beliefs. People can find a substyle disrespectful and remain completely entrenched in their respect towards their ideals.

I don't understand how the two are mutually exclusive.

>>8769380
Same here anon. I'm not Christian but I love stained glass designs, and have even tried my hand at making some myself. To me it's an art medium, and thus isn't necessarily owned by any one religion.

>>8769383
It's totally fine to not agree with something, such as a use of a certain symbol. If you don't like someone using a cross on their clothing, alright, that's your right. You can even tell them civilly. That's great.

I personally though am not okay with people berating or shoving their disagreement down others' throats. (or people shoving their own disrespect down yours). It's a very sticky subject overall.

>>8769389

I absolutely agree. The tone of this argument has gone past civil in some points on both sides, but I feel that's due to the 4chan culture. Personally I wouldn't go up to someone in public and scream at them, but if they asked for opinions on their outfit I'd be open to a civil discussion and I'd watch my words/tone much more carefully.

>>8768916
i don't even have an opinion on this topic i just fell in love with this girl wow who is she

do wiccans get this bent out of shape over people using their symbols? Just curious

>>8769451
I'm not offended by people using such symbols myself, though I cannot speak for everyone. A running thread in wicca though is being open-minded about things, and do what you want as long as you don't negatively impact others (or yourself). So if you wear a symbol of a god/goddess, pentacle, etc and aren't hurting others, I'm totally okay with it.

Only problem I can see is if you are a bad influence and use those symbols, thus giving others the impression that wiccans are also like that. But that can be said about many things.

>>8769338
People die all the time, for many different causes. If we took offence to everything that someone has ever died for, then everything would be offensive.

>>8769242
That's the entire point of CGL. We come in here and judge people based on what they wear. It is part of the seagull tribe.

>>8770414
Most gulls aren't using religious beliefs as their reasoning why though.

>>8769217
Agreed anon, things are starting to go in circles.

>>8770456
I think Haenuli's stained glass dresses are one of the loveliest of its kind.

>>8770460
Though admittedly, as a Catholic myself, I'm not entirely sold on the ones with the Holy Spirit on the bodice that makes you look like you have a Sacred Heart. Clever if that was the intention though.

>>8770468
I particularly find stained glass and cathedral prints appropriate because they embody the ornamentation of the church that has become so iconic of the Catholic church. As well as other orthodox churches iirc.
Side note, does anyone actually own this one?

>>8770485
I'd like to think of the usage of the imagery as an appreciation of the art.

>>8770504
Which were monuments to God anyway, as well as ways for the iliterate to be able to understand and visualize the readings. I also see it as a testament to the human ability and desire to decorate beautifully. Something that Lolitas understand well, I'd say.

>>8770524
Overall, I'm grateful for the degree of positive exposure. And that I've found a fashion that looks lovely without having to sacrifice modesty.

I enjoy having a style that I can wear and not feel awkward in.

i like the black & white and "clean" aesthetic of nun coords, so i think a lot of them look lovely. the main religion in my country is catholicism, but everyone in my family has been agnostic or atheist for generations and i have no religious close friends, so i don't have a strong reaction to the symbolism, either positive or negative.

i'm kind of like >>8769385, when a religious piece have artistic value to me, i can enjoy it and appreciate the intent of whoever made it, even if i don't share their faith. if it doesn't have that artistic value though, it's just a symbol and i wouldn't associate with it, because it isn't representative of my own belief and i also still tend to associate most religions with negative things like obscurantism and close-mindedness.

so while i can appreciate them on other people, i wouldn't wear crosses or a rosary myself, but a stained glass print or one of a madonna painting by a classical artist would be perfectly ok. i guess it's a bit weird...

>>8768382
You could always look for a Nameless Poem that isn't embroidered, anon. I know there are some out there.

>>8770428
Neither was this gull >>8769236 anon. I'm not sure if you came late into the discussion, or if I'm the confused one.

>>8770717
Dude that gull straight up made a fantasy dead person to argue with the gull that was called reasonable. Their entire argument was predicated on that they were more justified in being mad based on "I'm catholic and don't like it!"

>>8770721
Was that the same gull? I guess it really is me. Pardon

>>8769228
https://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/cgl/thread/8627952

this archived thread might give you some ideas about how to incorporate pentacles/other Pagan iconography into your wardrobe

>>8770751
No trouble.

Really liking the skirt here

>>8769325
>tfw when u a jew who would love a cute star of david print
in white x sax, would wear and coord with gold accessories

Cool, thanks. I've also been entertaining the idea norse/celtic coords in general as well.

>>8770721
She can feel offended if she wants. She's allowed to think that the other anon sounded like she was giving permission to descecrate their religion. It's her loss for dwelling on negative feelings. As long as she doesn't lash out in anger, I don't really care if she judges me silently for wearing a shit ton of crosses. The butthurt is all on her.

>>8770759
Same here anon, same here.

>>8770768
But that's the flaw in your theory. The other gull wasn't giving permission. They just relaayed how they saw it. Didn't find it offensive. Was called reasonable. Then the butthurt gull started attacking the one who called the other reasonable. She started the entire argument because someone called another reasonable. Based on "BUT WHAT ABOUT ME."

>>8770759
>>8770773
Yo, indie brands, looks like you've got an untapped market over here.

>>8770468
As a Lutheran, holy shit I need this. I haven't paid much attention to the prints, what is this dress?

>>8770775
Different anon but to be fair, even though anon-called-reasonable was not giving permission, one can interpret it that way. That's all this anon was saying.

>>8770485
>>8770504
That's why I prefer the stained glass prints or silhouettes of cathedrals better than the outright inspiration; it might lessens the uncomfortable feeling for those who are bothered from either side of the argument. Yeah, I'm a faith follower, but I'm not uncomfortable or feel it is disrespectful because it is just iconography in fashion. But, the stained glass feels like a great compromise! Say what you will about the Church, it did produce and support some great art in its context.

>>8770793
That is true, but way I see it. overly sensitive gull was looking to pick a fight.

>>8770787
Haenuli Stained Glass of St. Giles.
>>8770798
here here

>>8770787
Haenuli's stained glass of st giles like another anon said, there's also a second release of this called st vitus with a slightly different design and stained glass print

>>8769288
jesus that's so pretty

>>8769083
>Getting all weepy about people having to die for their Christianity.
>Why won't people just stop to think!!!
>Not addressing all the people who have been murdered because of Christianity by Christians.

Classic religion logic right there.

>>8772230
Kek. Basically the whole thread and the religion in a nutshell.

>>8772230

Same anon also mentioned that Christianity had done horrible things later on in the thread. Calm your petticoats.

>>8769259
The correct meaning of 'judge' in regards to the bible aside, you seem like a horribly face value, judgy bitch. Do you go to church to feel better about death or do you legit think you can get away with being an arsehole just cause 'muh catholic'.

At least Athests can admit they are cunts without trying to guise their arse-hole-ishness in a nonexistent/ perceived notion of moral fiber and ethical awareness.

>>8769188

>>8772206

Can we walk about it now?

>>8772278

*talk, autocorrect

>>8772278
That's not a fashion. It's costuming.

>>8769105
>>8769090
>thinking lace veils are the same as a nun coif
kek

>>8772323
There is military lolita including nazi motifs tho, remember Meta's infamous Die Valkyrie?

>>8772440
Do they have swastikas on them?

>>8769205
Pretty sure one of the recent bodyline prints featured pentagrams, not something I've seen put out by any major brands yet though.

>>8768378
Fucking hate that stupid bitch.
Also, stop with the self posting.

>>8769367
I think for the people being killed in India, some kids with large disposable incomes "disrespecting" them through their clothing choices is the last thing they have to worry about. If you're truly horrified by the injustice, why not do something about it? Join a movement? Go to India and help people there? If you don't want to do that then shut up.

You have absolutely no right to get offended on the behalf of people you're not a part of and that you're doing nothing to help. And when I say a part of, I don't mean to say you aren't a Catholic, just you're not in India or any place where practicing Catholicism is a risk to your well being. I really can't stand slacktivism, or people getting offended on the behalf of others. It's fine if it bothers you, but don't bring others into it.

>>8772561

........anon........I don't know how to tell you this..................but I donated to hospitals over there. And members of my church went over to provide aide. We helped pack bags of supplies.

Sure I'm not getting shot at and am staying here in my home country, and sure the Catholics over there are not 100% innocent in all the conflicts, but my church helped out those in need. We do a lot of charity in my church, we've got a very go-gett'em pastor and organization helping out.

>>8772569
I see, sorry for making assumptions and getting angry, what your church did was great. My, however, emotions aside was that I don't think it's right to speak for or get offended for the sake of others, and I think it still stands.

>>8772486
Even comes with the eagle.

>>8772574

Getting offended for others isn't something one should do. Getting offended on behalf of a group you belong too is a blurrier line. I think it can go either way depending on how far anyone takes it. Personally I feel expressing distaste in a thread about discussion is within the bounds, but obviously others can disagree with me.

>>8772429
>you dare come into my house
The lace veils I was talking about that the nuns made were for practical mass usage for female members of the congregation. After the Vatican ii reformations they fell out of common practice but you still see elderly women use. Some younger folk use them still for special masses like on days of holy obligation or taking audience with the pope etc. Usage varies from area to area. You drape these triangles of lace of varying lengths and colors (which all have different significances' if anyone wants to know more about that) over your head, loose or with a comb thing.That's basically what's being worn when people do religious inspired coords.

>>8772829

Can confirm, there was one family where the ladies always wore these to church when I was younger. I moved away, so idk if they're still doing it, but I bet they are. No one else in Church did it, but there are still people holding on the tradition.

>>8772578
Where's the swastika? I'm not familiar with this series

>>8772833
Oh they that's real interesting, in my area its a bit different because we have a high Hispanic population and you can see mantillas worn most often in the Spanish spoken masses and since mantillas are most popular in Spain, I'd imagine the prevalence trickled down from there. Its sparse but still there. Lolita is kinda what sparked a small interest in me to try to pick up the practice.

>>8772578
I honestly think people are exaggerating about D. Walküre, the hats that SS and Waffen SS wore usually had the skull on it as well, not just the eagle, and it's not an exact copy of any of the uniforms.

>>8772861
There's a thread for this. >>8772206

I don't want Nazi related stuff in lolita. That shit isn't kawaii and I'm Jewish.

>>8777630
>remember the 6 trillion
lmao just stop being so easily offended by just clothes, and playing the victim card ain't kawaii either.

Also, the meta sets look nothing like nazi uniforms, this whole discussion ist just plain stupid.

>>8777630
No one cares what you think and about your feelings.

>>8768916
I don't mind the Madonna crowns made of sticks, but when they're obviously zip-ties like this it looks so stupid.

>>8772856

Interesting! The ladies at my church who did it were as white as bread. I wish I had asked about their traditions. I do know the entire family was deeply religious and went every Wednesday and Sunday for mass.

The true Madonna

>>8778061

>>8778068

>>8778071

>>8778079

>>8770757
That is the JSK "Sword Saint" from Surface Sppell Gothic. I own it, and it's lovely.

>>8778086

>>8778093

>>8777638
>>8777660

and i'm sure you guys will be the first to be offended when you see someone wearing old soviet regalia lol

>>8778090
Isn't it called Holy Prayer?

>>8777630
Jews still come to this site? You know about pol right?? Like what are you doing here? Don't you feel like a hypocrite?

>>8777630
For what it's worth anon, there is at least one gull here who agrees with and supports you.

>>8778102
No, actually. I'd think it's really cool. Most of us are surprisingly not upset at things for existing.

>>8768838
Also Catholic here. You have the freedom to wear rosaries, but doing so is kind of on the same level of wanting to look Asian by using chopsticks but impaling your food with them as the only way to eat it.

>>8778463
I don't agree at all. Just because you're a catholic or are apart of some culture does not automatically make you an authority on it. No, someone is not automatically an uncultured person for wearing it outside it's original purposes.

>>8778584
Different anon. Its still a weird thing to do and kinda jarring to see. To do it on purpose sounds a little spiteful and that's just lame.

>>8778463
Catholic here. No it's not.

>>8772843
There is no swastika. They are bullshitting you. "Even" is a joke too. The eagle doesn't carry more Nazi meaning than the swastika.

>>8770460
>>8770468
Agreed, Haenuli's stained glass prints are top notch.
>>8770485
one of the prettiest stained glass prints.
Hope you don't mind the self post.

>>8770557
I really dislike veils with Nameless Poem. It really looks better with a headdress or beret; it's a solid dress and long veils feel out of place.

this thread is awful

>>8778823
Nice coord! The tights are a good match for it. I think the gloves are a little much since the dress already has long sleeves but everything else is really nice. I would try a darker lip color next time but I probably play around with makeup more than most lolis.

>>8778823

>>8769325
>>8770759
>>8770773
>>8770786
To Alice used to have a dress up. I tried to find it, but I think they took it down. However, they do have a pretty star of david bag and future release so you can be kawaii jewish desu

http://world.taobao.com/item/45598508145.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-8023218195.87.6hnl3r

http://world.taobao.com/item/520130608192.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-8023218195.66.ejti3G

>>8769221
where are you from anon? I do custom jewelry commissions but I live in Mexico

>>8769221

Where are you from anon? I make custom jewelry commissions but I live in Mexico

>>8779088

Isn't this that girl that wore a really big golden crown to regalia last september?

>>8779229
Not really lolita, but there's this

>http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Gothic-Lolita-Hexagram-Cross-Embroidery-Sailor-Collar-Dress-Winter-Thick-Cute-Dress-Wine-Black/32477031025.html

>>8770796
ahh so cute!

>>8779365
Yes, that's the same girl.

>>8779057
Thank you! Yes ever since I took that picture I got a dark lipstick. Thanks for the observation avout the lace gloves.

its funny because all of you wanna these beautiful characters but you are all fat and ugly. people need to be more realistic with this stuff, i try to promote more realistic cosplay. seriously, if you are a larger person consider a larger character, we cant all have curves!

Dress up as fargoth the fat fuck you neckbeard nigger lover

>>8782501
anime/cosplay is cringy AS FUCK YOU NIGGER ASS SHIT MOUTH CUNT HEAD

yeah motherfucker wanna go? hide behind your screen you little neckbeard shit. im ten times the man you are you little gay ass lesbian cock sucking douche

>>8782504
you couldnt even fite me if u tried you non-lifting ass nigger loving anime boy with his mom's cock in his pee hole ya fataasss

>>8782506
You all are worthless, i want you to fucking pass away you anime shitheads

>>8782507
if autism is real, i think i just found it on this board

alright neckbeard, run back to your politically correct little booth and complain to reddit. yeah, thats right, fuck your stupid views on women and gays. i hate them and they have no place cosplaying

>>8782509
you're autism is more active then ur sex life

>>8778079
liliths coords are so cute when shes not trying to pull off otome weebmerch shit

Fuck you all and die clinging to your tumblr privilege

just why does everyone own nameless poem. I've seen it so many times it's like some sort of lolita uniform.

>>8790068
Hnnnrggh what is that OP???

>>8790189
Because it allows custom sizing.

>>8790189
It's cheap, came in a lot of sizes, was released more than once and came out at the hight of the religious/nun lolita trend.

>>8790068
that op looks gorgeous,
i'd also love to know which one it is

>>8790208
>>8790290
The outfit rundown says I Do Declare.

http://mossmarchen.tumblr.com/post/65048772221/therobberbridegroom

Self post

>>8790695
How is the quality on that OP? I've heard questionable things about Phantom and the Maiden in the past and their designs are so hit or miss, but this one is cute and so cheap.

>>8790695
It's actually pretty good for the price! I'm thinking about getting another in all white. This is the second order I've done with them. The first order was a little iffy because they got the length wrong on my underskirt, but the quality has always been nice.

>>8790766
Bah, meant to reply to >>8790749

>>8790766
Good to know, thanks!