/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

What is otome-kei?
>Japanese for 'maiden'
>Focuses on a feminine and quirky look
>No set rules
>Outfits often use colour popping, interesting print combinations, and contrasting materials
>Generally has a kitsch or twee vibe
>Sometimes overlaps with casual lolita but is still a separate style

Main otome brands:
>Emily Temple Cute/Shirley Temple Cute
>Jane Marple
>Leur Getter
>MILK

Other Suitable Brands*:

>Amavel
>Ank Rogue
>Axes Femme
>Bortsprungt
>Candy Stripper
>Excentrique
>Fint
>Franche Lippee
>Grimoire
>Lois Crayon
>Lolita brands (accessories, legwear, bags, mini skirts, cardigans/boleros)
>Melantrick Hemlighet
>Merlot Camp
>Q-pot
>Wonder Rocket


Suitable Non-Japanese Brands*:
>Alannah Hill
>Cath Kidston
>Dangerfield
>Hello Bones Jones (Indie)
>Miss Patina
>Modcloth
>Mulberry Chronicles (Indie)
>Peppermint Fox (Indie)


Non-japanese Socks/Shoes*:
>Sock Dreams, Teja Jamilla
>Melissa Shoes, Bait Footwear, Dkode Shoes, Neosen, Fleuvog

*NB: these brands are not all specifically otome, but sometimes produce suitable items

>>8611228
Appreciation Blogs:

>http://axesfemme.tumblr.com/
>http://emikyuforever.tumblr.com/
>http://emilytemplecute.tumblr.com/
>http://fuckyeahotomekei.tumblr.com/
>http://otomeclub.tumblr.com/
>http://otomecoords.tumblr.com/
>http://otomestyle.tumblr.com/


Individual Blogs**:
http://altered-imagery.tumblr.com
http://angiiichan.tumblr.com
http://aralunanim.tumblr.com
http://classicaltyrianjubilee.tumblr.com
http://cling123.tumblr.com
http://endless8.tumblr.com
http://fannyrosie.tumblr.com
http://grandma-kei.tumblr.com
http://herajika.tumblr.com
http://kairii.tumblr.com
http://kaya-kueh.tumblr.com
http://lilythdark.tumblr.com
http://mademoiselle-iona.tumblr.com
http://onlyeasy.tumblr.com
http://pinkstrawberrytea.tumblr.com
http://rm-marionette.tumblr.com
http://sakuraimayura.tumblr.com
http://sapphira-doll.tumblr.com
http://sinneddonuts.tumblr.com
http://strawberrymelody.tumblr.com
http://sugarypinkcupcake.tumblr.com
http://vysanthe.tumblr.com
http://whimsicalmori.tumblr.com
http://xylia-x.tumblr.com

**NB: Many of these blogs dabble in both lolita and otome or exist in the grey area between the two. There's also varying experience levels.

>>8611228
Appreciation Blogs:

>http://axesfemme.tumblr.com/
>http://emikyuforever.tumblr.com/
>http://emilytemplecute.tumblr.com/
>http://fuckyeahotomekei.tumblr.com/
>http://otomeclub.tumblr.com/
>http://otomecoords.tumblr.com/
>http://otomestyle.tumblr.com/


Individual Blogs**:
http://altered-imagery.tumblr.com
http://angiiichan.tumblr.com
http://aralunanim.tumblr.com
http://classicaltyrianjubilee.tumblr.com
http://cling123.tumblr.com
http://endless8.tumblr.com
http://fannyrosie.tumblr.com
http://grandma-kei.tumblr.com
http://herajika.tumblr.com
http://infiniteneeya.tumblr.com/
http://kairii.tumblr.com
http://kaya-kueh.tumblr.com
http://lilythdark.tumblr.com
http://mademoiselle-iona.tumblr.com
http://onlyeasy.tumblr.com
http://pinkstrawberrytea.tumblr.com
http://rm-marionette.tumblr.com
http://sakuraimayura.tumblr.com
http://sapphira-doll.tumblr.com
http://sinneddonuts.tumblr.com
http://strawberrymelody.tumblr.com
http://vysanthe.tumblr.com
http://whimsicalmori.tumblr.com
http://xylia-x.tumblr.com

**NB: Many of these blogs dabble in both lolita and otome or exist in the grey area between the two. There's also varying experience levels.

>>8611234
Possible check list? Another anon disputed here >>8599599


>a dress or a skirt with a cute kitschy print
>2 cardigans, one that matches your dress/skirt and one that complements it
>blouse
>beret/some cute vintage hat (in complementary color to your dress/skirt maybe)
>2 pairs of socks/tights, printed or textured
>casual, classy shoes
>bag in the same color as the shoes

>>8611239
It makes me really happy that there is a regular otome kei thread now.

Still pretty new to the fashion. I find socks are what I struggle with most.. It's so damn hard to find suitable socks IN STOCK. And my lack of patience isn't helping.

How long have other anons been in the fashion? What do you struggle with most?

>>8611239
I don't think that a printed skirt or dress is necessary. I think the accessories are more important and what helps make an outfit fit under otome kei.

>>8611288
Have you been looking at western sources for socks? Premium brands in particular. Seems like they've stepped things up in terms of design in the past couple of years - might be easier than trying to cop a pair NWT on Y!J. Also, I'm guessing you're more of an ETC girl going by the pic, but if you're into the JM side, I've found that plain tweed knee highs work pretty awesomely with the bookish prints. Just the right amount of texture.

(I've been in the fashion since... 2006? But I took an extended break thanks to life managing to kill my soul. The struggle is finding stuff to fit my shoulders comfortably which is solved by primarily wearing cutsews and sundresses.)

>>8611130
I liked the video and didn't think the examples were bad. It's a decent video for beginners and I'm glad she finally made a video about otome kei because she owns a shit ton of otome kei brand items and hopefully she will make more videos with otome outfits because I want to see her wear the items from her hauls.
Are there any other Youtubers who make otome kei related videos?

>>8611288
I have been in it for 7 years now. Jane Marple has my soul so JM's aesthetic is what I go for. I don't think I struggle with much because my outfits are pretty by the book, head-to-toe JM, and I like mixing things from different series. When I first got into it though, I think what I struggled with was trying to make my otome outfits more lolita since I transitioned from lolita to otome. Now I do what AP clones used to do and buy almost everything from a series from JM.

I decided to do otome instead of lolita for my first 'subculture' since I feel like it would be nice to get into this simple fashion at first before going all out.

Anyway I have two things I wanna know; are there any links to Taobao stores that sell otome stuff and that what's best to wear for autumn/winter since here in the UK it can get cold and wet quickly. (sorry for my English)

>>8611374
>here in the UK
>sorry for my English
do you not speak English at home if you live in the UK...?

>>8611378
Are you retarded? ffs

>>8611378
Not the person you replied to... not everyone living in the UK is a native English speaker. Does it need explaining? Sage for dumb.

>>8611374
If you're in the UK, you've already got it made with regards to highstreet shops. Can't recommend the Cath Kidston sales highly enough. Also, I always thought the Ness tartan skirtsuits would look very JMesque if styled right... (if they still do them, that is). Also, you're ground zero for knitwear in traditional patterns. Just keep an eye out!

As a once upon a time UK otome, I can recommend:
-Layering and wool knitwear. Acrylic and other synthetics in knitwear don't keep you as warm.
-Get a proper coat around the same length as your skirts. Always though jacquard was good for keeping the wind off as long as you've got good layers underneath.
-WOOL TIGHTS. These are magical.
-Invest in a good pair of boots if you're expecting snow where you live. Good soles are important. If your skirts are knee length and your boots are knee high, that's a lot of protection against the cold.

>>8611388
No, why would I be? Get out of my country.

>>8611401
Thank you so much! Thankfully I frequently walk past a Cath Kidston when going to work so I'll keep an eye out.
>>8611378
I do speak fluent English. It's just sometimes I find it hard to get sentences right.

>>8611427
I know Miss Patina which is mentioned in >>8611228 is UK based. Has anyone bought from there before? Their skirts look really cute but I'd like to know about their quality before making a purchase.

>>8611427
Your English sounds fairly native to me, except I wouldn't really say 'I have two things I wanna know' but 'there are two things I wanna know'. It's a nitpick, though.

>>8611427
That's good luck! It's always nice to be able to try on stuff in person. Apparently the bust area on one or two of the new CK dresses is cut a bit tighter than normal, so trying on is definitely recommended for this season. At least until they get their pattern maker sorted out.

I'm liking the Hampstead Rose print for floral otome, plus their reissue of the cowboy print (think they did clothes in that print?) and Billie Goes to Town for a more kitschy look. Always nice to have something you don't have to worry as much about messing up in the day to day.

Otome-ables for less affluent anons, with a focus on alternate sizing and length.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Winter-wool-vintage-plaid-bow-peter-pan-collar-dress-2015-spring/32257246936.html JM-esque tweedy plaid
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/QIQ08-Fashion-2015-women-sweet-clock-print-red-Dress-sleeveless-work-wear-causal-slim-brand-dress/32299344904.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.le8CUK&ws_ab_test=201407_3,201444_6,201409_5 Cath Kidston clock replica.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Summer-Mori-Girl-Vintage-Stripe-Printed-Elegant-Slim-Dress-Women-Sweet-Doll-Collar-Short-sleeve/32403628007.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.194.WrLXBq&ws_ab_test=201407_3,201444_6,201409_5 cute summer dress

Keywords: retro mori, mori doll, then weed out excessively mori things.

Requesting your favorite tartan pieces. I have a few meters of lovely black watch burning a hole in my sewing table but I can't decide what to do with it. I was dumb and haven't been saving images of random past year JM pieces that pop up.

Thoughts on JM's new print?

>>8612308
The queen is on it, which I find both funny and sort of awkward.

do you guys follow a color scheme for your otome clothing with main colors and stuff?

MILK- anon from last thread, what search terms are you using on ebay?

>>8612308
It's ok. I like their other anniversary prints better.

>>8612308
I love it! I hope my SS can snag the JSK in green for me.

This years JM a/w releases are killing me, I literally want everything. Best Jane Marple season ever imo (though 2011 and 2013 get close).

>My little start-up brand was added.
Oh listanon, this is a very special kind of a feel!

I'm finally about to release original prints and they're all deliberately and distinctly otome, so hopefully they'll live up to it. Pic related.

>>8612308
I kind of wish they sold the waist ribbons separately

Need more of this kind of JM in my life

>>8612583

>>8612585

>>8612588

>>8612599

>>8612492
I'm glad that it gave you a special feel. I'm keen to see indie brands succeed so I hope everything goes well for you in the future.

>>8612582
They're pretty cool. I like this coord over here >>8612599 where they've used the Royal Order waist ribbon with a plain OP.

>>8612582
Grand bazaar had some last week, but they sold out pretty fast.

>>8612363
I never use eBay for otome tbh. I've snagged some good deals through Usagiyouhinten a few times (and I'm picky with the pieces). They tend to go quickly though. Otherwise, Closet Child and Y!JA are good places to look.

Bump! Please don't die.

>>8612492

Is this a preview of a cute bird print I see? Because I'm going to be all over that if it is.

>>8611321
I agree with printed clothing not being necessary, though I do feel like that would make a good, like, "beginner's guide to building an otome wardrobe" since I imagine it's much easier for beginners to begin with a main piece that has a cute, quirky print and use understated accessories than to use a solid-colored or simple-patterned dress and try to otome-fy it up, especially if they don't have much experience accessorizing.

>>8613885
chill

>>8613994

>>8613996

>>8613999

>>8614003
Not sure if everything i'm going to post is actually otome-kei

>>8614005

>>8614007

>>8614008

>>8614011

>>8614015

>>8614019
fin.

How are Peppermint Fox's and Mulberry Chronicles's quality? Is there any story to these sudden otome Melbourne brands?

I'm a bit upset since I was burned on some old lolita indie brands, so I decided to give them a few releases to ensure they'd stick around and just recently checked back. Of course, now I want all their old stuff and am having issues finding it. I'd really like to buy Bunny Voyage and Woodland Path.

>>8614407
Alanah (ex milkyfawn? lol) has unworn woodland path for sale in size 1 for retail price. Bunny voyage will have a re-release in their classic cut, date yet to be determined. Mulberry chronicles are also thinking about it, but they've announced another release of the navy colourway in a thicker cotton fabric soon. Their quality is pretty good but not brand-tier. I think the prices are ok for a small indie brand, especially considering they are in AUD not USD. It's more like 130 rather than 200 at this exchange rate.

>>8614418
Something I noticed in MC's promo pics for their Mushroom dress is that they've used a very long (loose) stitch for structural stitches (princess seams and where the skirt attaches to the waist) - which resulted in a 'stretched out' look.
As a general rule, structural stitches should be short, tight and sturdy and these were a good 3x what I'd recommend; Longer stitches are only used because they're faster and use less thread.

It's not a HUGE deal, but it might be worth mentioning in case a bunch of people pop up ~6 months down the line saying that they fell apart.

>>8614448
130's a bit much to be asking if they're making mistakes like these.
Hopefully dresses pop up secondhand soon, but it might not be worth it if they don't make it past 6 months.

>>8614448
I didn't really notice that when I saw the final/ for sale ones in person, does anybody own the dress and can tell us about it? The promos might not be that reliable but yeah, I don't own it so I wouldn't know for sure.

In terms of pepfox, people have seemed pretty satisfied with them. They look better irl than their stock photos. The original release of crowning glory did have some quality issues with the fabric but they've switched materials and there's no problem now with the chiffon.

There was an anon that wanted this dress (but purple). Anyhow, the pink one is on sale if interested.

http://enfant-outlet.shop-pro.jp/?pid=93606902

Does anyone know what dress the girl in the OP video is wearing?

>>8615629
I know it's Jane Marple, but I don't know the actual name

>>8615629
Jane Marple Concerto Carte

http://lolibrary.org/apparel/concerto-carte-op

>>8614456
I own the MC dress.
I have it in a size 2, the dress is put together quite nicely. The fabric is really nice, I really like it, it was a good choice as it's an easy fabric to work with even if you are not an experienced sewer.
The colour is gorgeous and the print is crisp.

A few minor nitpicks are that the in-seam pockets aren't sewn in 100% correctly, there are small gaps above and below the pocket back where it should connect with the seam allowance. This isn't a big deal, just means that I wouldn't reccomend keeping heavy items in the pockets for prolonged amounts of time, as the fabric is kind of fragile and will rip because they aren't properly secured.
There are a few other really mild nitpicks, but that's just me being a pedantic fashion student, so I won't bore you with them.
One major problem I do see is, as some other anons mentioned, is the stitch length. I'm well under the waist measurements for a size 2 (72cm) at 66cm. Yet the seams are pulling, (pic related) and fabric tearing slightly. This is from both, having too long of a stitch and the fabric itself is quite fragile after being punctured.

There isn't much else to say, but if there is anything in particular anyone wants to see or ask, I'll be lurking.

Does F21 has some otome items? Do you have to wear big brand for this? Sorry for questions but oteme is so cute

>>8611239
Anon, I don't think you understood what we meant by checklist. I think it's more like:
>wants to look like a heroine from an old manga
>loves quirky prints, polka dots and plaid
>loves Jane Marple and EmiKyu

>>8616561
You can easily get otome items from F21.

>>8616401
I don't know anything about construction but it sounds like you do so I have a question for you. I own a lot of brand and I have that issue with the seams pulling and the fabric tearing. I guess it make sense for items with shirring since I am pulling on the dress to make it bigger, but for non-shirred items where I am smaller than the measurement, it still happens. Does that mean that brand items aren't that well made?

Requesting pics of otome coords with lolita main pieces worn.

>>8616401
Those are not so much minor nitpicks as major flaws. It's such a pity because it's such a beautiful jsk and fabric.

>>8616629
>>8611239
I actually like both of these descriptions! I feel like the rules for otome are a bit more loose and it's purposefully a bit harder to define.

Some anon from an older thread was describing how you match up otome visually, since it's less matchy-matchy than lolita, and it was really helpful. Does anyone have more descriptions and explanations like this? That anon was getting out pictures and explaining why you see a good otome coord as cohesive in your mind and what you don't see as cohesive.

>>8616639

>>8616737

>>8616741

>>8616743

>>8616737
>>8616741
>>8616743
>>8616745
I think some of these are veering straight-up casual lolita. Needs something more of the retro feel to capture otome.

>>8616819
Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking. I do think that they could be great for inspiration.

>>8616745
>>8616743
>>8616737
Nope, they're casual Lolita still..

>>8616636
As other anon said, stitch length is part of the problem, but some fabrics will pull a bit regardless. When sewing I will always take that into account and line or flatline with fabrics that will minimize or prevent pulling. Not doing so is not terrible construction, but it can be addressed at the construction phase.

>>8616629
I think that person was just reposting the guide in the last thread. I also feel that that and this aren't interchangeable so this could work as a list to get the feel of otome down while the other one works as a what-to-buy guide.
To add to your list:
>likes complementary colors more than matching colors
>likes mismatched prints
>likes simple hairstyles
>has been told she looks like a quirky grandma

>>8615693
>>8615732
Thanks!

>>8616629
>>8616943
Just a few suggestions but
>loves to study fashion history.
>is artistic and loves to paint, draw, sew, knit, etc.
>has a favorite Year 24 Group mangaka.
>is highly interested in tailoring, fit, and fabric.
>is inspired by illustrations by Junichi Nakahara, Katsuji Matsumoto, Makoto Takahashi, etc.
>always has a book on hand.
>reads So-En magazine.
>loves old-fashioned luggage.
>prefers antiqued gold over silver but can make either work.

My dream JM tartan OP came up to auction today however its in the wrong freaking colorway. Here's the link for any interested parties.

http://page23.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o113324281

>>8616639
Maybe this one

>>8617093
and this one?

>>8617093
>>8617094
Goddamn, I have the hugest hardon for her coords. Would she be an example of coording like a lolita? Because some of her stuff is really matchy but fuck if it's not pretty.

>>8616989
I feel your pain. I want it in blue or red.

>>8616561
Otome is a lot more about the "feeling" and less about making sure your dress has the right shape and your accessories match perfectly in color so it's entirely possible to buy items you can use in "normie" stores like F21. People have even been posting links to cheap dresses from AliExpress here that can work.

Here is one that somebody shared in the AE thread:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Super-Cute-Girls-Cherry-Plaid-Checks-Lolita-Sleeveless-JSK-Dress-Red-Black-Summer-Winter/1762602_32460629968.html
The seller has a few others that can work.

>>8611322
Would you mind naming a few premium western sock brands, anon? I'm having a hard time thinking of places that would have suitable things outside of maybe Modcloth, which is neither premium nor particularly western (in that most of their stuff is taobao brand being resold for extra money). Thanks in advance!

>>8617179
>http://page23.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o113324281

Since it's more about the feel of the outfit, does that mean that a petti is not required? Or if you just like pettis then a flattened everyday petti?

I wanna start buying pieces, but there's still so much to learn, i wanna make sure i capture the feel i want before i start spending money.

>>8617316
Yup, pettis aren't required but some girls use flatter ones so their dresses don't look too limp and sad. The only thing I'd say is too stay away from overly poofy, cupcake pettis, but if you're looking into otome you're probably not into that anyway.
Anons have been making checklists, it doesn't hurt to start there.

>>8617351
Yea I prefer a-line pettis, I lean more towards classic style and the quirky femininity of otome really appeals to me. Also the fact that i can complement colors.

Those checklists help a lot, thanks.

>>8617154
Dat blue and green JM tartan is so good and so, so hard to find.

>>8617216
There's a ton of small companies out there, you just have to keep an eye out. Bonne Maison is perfect. Hansel from Basel and Ozone have pop designs and florals. Maria La Rosa could be promising in future collections. I liked her A/W designs to go with something a bit librarianish and '60s. I'd also like to see someone manage to use a pair of Darner mesh socks at some point.

Places like Wolford and Falke will occasionally shake things up and do something that works for otome if there's a fashion for it. Even with their more plain styles though, good quality materials will look a lot better. I like them for patterned fishnets too, which can look great with the right coord. Emilio Cavallini also does black and white vertical and spiral striped tights if anyone's looking for a pair.

Most of the time though, you just have to watch the new releases. Like, they normally do more pop patterns, but I've got a pair of crew-length socks from Happy Socks that have a Northern European floral design and they work well with longer skirts. Mostly though, if you see an independent designer whose designs look vaguely otome, they're probably designing socks too.

You could also knit or get someone to knit (Etsy) handmade tweedy socks for you if you're wearing one of the JM English-inspired prints.

And there's always those online specialist sock stores like The Sock Hop. For something cheaper, The Sock Drawer is selling a line of socks with art pieces on them and OTKs with a vine print. It's mostly resale from Hot Sox I think?

>>8617316
>>8617351
You could probably get enough shape with an underskirt.

>>8617316
Yeah a small a-line dailywear petticoat is good with otome but I think a lot of girls skip the petti altogether.

>>8617836
Thank you, anon! That list was exceptionally helpful.

I have a wine dress with small "fleur-de-lis" detils, I need help to coord it.

>>8618229
Any chance we could get a picture of it to help you out better?

>>8617615
I got outbid last time I came across it. I hope we both own it one day.

>>8612583
i'm having so much trouble finding tights like this

>>8617891
I sometimes wear a version of this skirt(various colours) that's all over ebay/aliexpress that I cut off to knee length and it peaks out a bit/provides safety from flashing and gives my dress a bit of shape/makes me feel more finished.

>>8618310
It looks like this

>>8619027
this fabric

>>8619027
With this fabric. The dress is handmade

>>8616401
>>8614456
>>8614453
>>8614418
Sorry for the delay in replying. Thank you all so much. I really appreciate you telling me about their quality and mentioning Alanah having the piece. Especially thank you to >>8616401 for the pictures.

I was asking MC about their release and it looks like they're having another one soon, possibly thicker and in a darker navy than the original navy one? I'll buy it whenever they release it online and see how the quality of their London Edition of the Woodland Path is. Do you think there's a reason for them making it both thicker and the navy color darker? Was the fabric too thin before?

>>8619035
Well, I think darkest night (navy) was more popular, and the print kind of lends itself to a more autumn/ winder feel doesn't it? The colour would likely be darker because of the printing/ material limitations. Maybe they couldn't get more of the chiffon, or maybe they wanted to try something new for a/w, or to distance themselves from pepfox's chiffon. I dunno really, just thinking to myself.

>>8619047
and I would have bought it from her but I think I'm more a size 2, especially since I like to layer blouses (fat arms wah)

>>8618493
What, really? Just like lace tights with a vertical pattern? I've seen them everywhere online. Well, similar ones. Trouble is my height, so I haven't tried them.

>>8619202
Different anon. If you could link any that'd be great. I'm looking for ones in black personally.

>>8616629
>>8616943
I was thinking how to explain otome coordination to a beginner without getting too prescriptive. Just some random thoughts below.


Fit
>Do the items fit properly?
>Is the dress straining at the bust or are you swimming in it? Tailoring is the difference between quirky maiden and crazy granny/toddler who outgrew their clothes.
>Is your knitwear too tight? Cardigans should drape, not stretch.
>Have you dressed for your body type?
Color
>Have you deliberately chosen the colors in your coord or have you just gone with what's available?
>If you are unsure of your instinct with color, decide from the beginning if you want your colors to be complementary, analogous, split complementary, monochrome, quadrilateral, whatever, and use the color wheel as a guide.
>For more color advice, pick up an artist's book on color theory.
Balance
>Take shape and proportion into consideration. A very large skirt will generally look better with a more fitted top. A coat and dress will work best together if they have a similar hemline unless you're going for a specific look. Certain necklines will not go together (wide sweetheart layered under crew, etc.). Use personal judgement.
>Take fabric weight into consideration, though this will entirely be up to personal judgement too.
>Take texture into consideration. Large amounts of plain cotton are boring. Take a look at adding different fabrics, knitwear, detail work like embroidery, beading, lace, etc.
>Take color into consideration again. Do you have a large, flat expanse of one color without breaking it up? This is why cardigans are so popular.

Cont'd.

>>8619500
Detail
>Hair, nails, and makeup are clean and fit the theme of the coord. Minimal makeup is fine, but you should look polished or else it will look jarring next to all the work you've put into your clothes. Think total package.
>Do your items look like they're well made using good quality fabrics? If not, have they been styled in a way that hides that fact? Fit is a big factor here.
Coherence
>Consider the coord as a whole. Does the coord say "maiden" to you?
>Do the items all thematically blend together? A pop-style skirt may look better with a casual cutsew than a heritage-style blouse. Use personal judgement.
>If you started the coord with a "reference" (librarian, Enid Blyton novels, school uniforms, Oniisama e...), is the styling subtle enough that you don't look like you're wearing a costume?
Cohesion
>Consider the coord as a whole. Does everything you've selected look like it belongs together?
>Are there any elements that draw the eye in a jarring way? Swap these out.
Sense
>Can you go about your daily life in your coord?
>Did it take you 3 hours to get everything put together? If so, try keeping things simpler next time. You are a maiden not a doll.


Recommendations:
>Read. Read widely. You never know what's going to give you an idea for a coord, plus it's a good way to get to understand the otome feeling. Movies, too. Any media.
>Don't get stuck on otome fashion alone. Look at other areas, like couture, to get ideas on fabric and pattern combination, as well as how to use references.


On that note, anyone have any books, comics, movies they'd recommend that have an otome feel?

>>8611130
why is it that every person who makes "how to" videos in jfashion looks like shit? it is the blind leading the blind.

>>8619575
The people who look good don't need to do how tos for efame.

>>8619500
>>8619505

nice anon! I think it's great to take into account fit and proportion etc since otome isn't as matchy as lolita and is more flexible

>>8619027
>>8619032
Hmm, you'll want to show off the sleeves if they've got a bit of puff. Maybe make it a bit Edwardian schoolgirlish with cream/off-white color long socks with a bag that's reminiscent of a satchel and a straw boater hat. I'd say use navy or mustard as an additional accent color with dark brown leather goods?

>>8619858
Thanks, anon! Was thinking about adding some general ideas on print clashing, but that could be another post by itself. It never ends.

>>8619505
>>8619500
I think that's pretty good. I don't think fit is that important especially if you are swimming around in it. A lot of Japanese girls are swimming in their clothes.

>>8619575
What? She dresses pretty well for her size and has good taste. I would like for her to do a how to videos for Lolita because she's been in the fashion forever.

>>8619575
It could be better, definitely. I feel like there's better otome-kei girls out there that really get the vibe. Honestly, I feel like lolita and otome-kei shouldn't even be compared like she did in the video. The brands are usually different, way you accessorize and coord, and the only thing really in common is usually busy prints. If you see otome as deconstructed lolita or alternatate lolita, I think you miss a lot.

>>8620331
I mostly agree (oversized fit makes things look cuter) but sometimes you have to watch out. Like, if you're way under a waist measurement on an item with an included belt, it can pucker weirdly if you use the belt to cinch to fit. In that case, getting tailoring can help. Another your mileage may vary thing.

>>8620335
I would have to disagree with you there. I agree with Girl on Sunday that Lolita dresses can be used for otome kei outfits but like you and she said it has to do with how you accessorize and the feel of it. I think that she could have used better examples in the video. I did like this outfit that she posted which I think has a very otome kei vibe.

>>8620337
I think the belts are meant to be tied very loosely. Jane Marple is cut quite large/oversize (compared to the size of the bodies it's designed to fit) and often the torso is pretty long, too. I am just slightly taller than the average Japanese woman and I can't belt JM JSKs to my natural waist. I wear a loose belt that basically just sits on the waist seam (which is a bit lower than my natural waist) and doesn't cinch anything in. In pictures it looks like this is also how Japanese women are wearing the ribbon belts.

>>8620350
Not the anon you are responding to but I do think that the ribbon belt isn't really meant for cinching but more for decoration. It can help cinch in a little but it isn't really meant to be worn completely cinched in.

>>8620350
I was thinking more about the belts with buckles like the Paper Doll jsk. Those tend to droop if you do them loosely. Depends on the model of dress, really.

>>8620350
>>8620359
And I sent that too soon.

It's also good guidance to have for beginners who might be looking to use vintage or western second hand which would have a wider variety of sizes but less choice.

For otomes on a budget, this shop has some nice stuff: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/September/319522_504080841.html?categoryId=200003482

if anyone has any links to stores with nice, cheapish cropped cardigans it would be greatly appreciated! i usually buy them from modcloth but the exchange rate is terrible atm.

>>8620917
I would like to know this too! I'm not a big fan of the longer cardigans that are prominent in otome kei and would like to know where to buy cropped cardigans that hit the natural waist.

>>8620917
>>8621150
Try anti-fashion casualwear brands. Laura Ashley is has a 3/4 sleeve one on sale for $27 but they only have red. Boden is selling some plain 3/4 sleeve cropped cardigans right now too. The baseline model is $68. Both could be embellished easily if that's your thing. Boden is pretty good quality for normie clothes from what I remember, and they're also doing one of those Buckingham Palace guard uniform-inspired sweaters for A/W.

Maybe try vintage repro sellers too since it's a key item for '50s wear. 20th Century Foxy is selling one 3/4 sleeve model for £30 that should be around the right length.

>>8621163
I'm not too much of a fan of 3/4 length sleeves but want a cardigan that ends at my natural waist. H&M and Forever 21 has them rarely but I think long cardigans are the in thing at the moment. So frustrating.

>>8620917
Look at pin up/retro clothing stores as they make things cut to finish at the waist (pic related - trashy diva), or there's stores like review, dangerfield, etc.

>>8621165
Yep, it can be a bit of a hunt finding quality cropped cardigans with long sleeves. With everyday casual clothes, the shorter hemlines tend to look more balanced with the shorter sleeves (unless you're trying to draw attention to the cropped part), but when you don't want it for an everyday casual look it gets annoying. You might have more luck in the winter season, though. Anne Taylor LOFT apparently did a cropped sweater with long sleeves this season too, but the front on that model wasn't quite right, so they might be another brand to check later.
Also, for anyone looking for a long sleeved cropped cardigan in the $300+ pricerange, Johnston's of Elgin is selling a black one with a bit of shimmer for £229. They might come out with some other colors at some point. Specialist knitwear shops are the place to be.

>>8621165
>>8621204
Wait, how do you feel about La Redoute and v-necks? £27.00.
http://www.laredoute.co.uk/ppdp/prod-324494971.aspx

>>8620347
that pink doesn't coordinate with the coral in the border print. it's bugging me

>>8621208
Thanks for the link. I'm going to snag it.

>>8621170
you are a saint, these are the ones i usually buy from modcloth!

Just popping in to throw a "indie" brand out there that I think any otome fans would enjoy. It's called Book of Deer. Last spring's collection is on sale right now.

Dangerfield is having a flash online sale right now. Sign up for their mailing list and you also receive a 10% discount code. I used both and saved a fair bit on cute basics for my wardrobe.

>>8624274
I have that print on socks ha
Their sales are good, might cop some stuff.

I've only skimmed so far, but you guys might find one or two things in this interesting. http://pdf.jpf-sydney.org/newvoices/5/chapter6.pdf

>Socially, one of the key factors that shapes girls’ culture is the bedroom. Honda describes the girls’ bedroom as a place where ‘she spins a small cocoon around herself wherein to slumber and dream as a pupa, consciously separating herself from the outer world’... In the cyber age, girls’ bedroom culture could also include online formats such as chat rooms and networking sites. Most importantly, the social realm of the bedroom characterises shōjo culture as a private space, in which girls are shut away from the outside world. Furthermore, it is a social space in which only those who share similar interests (i.e. other girls or those with a girl consciousness) can participate.

The whole idea of a "girls only social space" always struck me as a bit of an otome (and lolita) ideal, like constructing a private space through the fashion and its related frame of mind. No surprise since it's all shoujo culture in the end.

Has anyone read John Whittier Treat's "Yoshimoto Banana Writes Home: Shojo Culture and the Nostalgic Subject"? Does it actually cover much about girls' culture? The title seems promising but I have no JStor.

I feel like a yellow cardigan should be considered a staple because it goes with pretty much everything. Thoughts?

(The thread's pretty low in the catalog and I don't want it to die.)

>>8627207
For dark hair or pop coordinates, maybe.

>>8627207
I rarely wear my yellow cardigan. It's not easy to coordinate.

>>8627272
I think a lot of it depends on the tone. Bright yellows only really go with bright colors. Mustards only really go with jewel tones and neutrals.

Navy might be a better staple actually. It's a neutral but softer than black and goes well with the regimental theme. That or cream.

>>8627553
There are a few awesome cardigans on sale on dangerfield's website, which I am browsing because I am the worst and should be doing actual work. $39AU should be about $4us, haha. Also remember AU sizes are smaller than US.

Mini instagram dump

>>8627636

>>8627642

>>8627644

>>8627646

>>8627648

>>8627649

>>8627649
Source/name of the dress with strawberries?

Good petti for otome?

>>8627722
I like the one American Apparel had on sale a few months ago. It's a good length with the perfect amount of light poof.

>>8627735
This one?
http://store.americanapparel.net/multi-layered-reversible-petticoat_rsanl300
It's the only one I saw on the website.

>>8627855
No, it was a bit longer and slightly better made. They must've gotten rid of the model. Sorry, anon.

>>8624579
Ooh, I'm really excited to read this! Thanks for sharing, anon. I haven't read the book you mentioned, but it does sound interesting. Do you want me to e-mail you a copy? If so, reply with an address!

>>8624579
Looks cool. Thanks for sharing.

>>8627938
Thanks for that, though it looks like I may have actually tracked it down...went and plugged it into Google Scholar and what do you know? Open access copy. Three cheers for the internet.
http://sites.davidson.edu/hum161cg/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Yoshimoto.pdf

Random bits include:
>Horikiri Naoto dates the concept of a "special shojo world" to the Taisho period, when rising affluence permitted middle and upper-class families to send their daughters to girls' boarding schools, creating the youthful and all-female subculture described, for example, in Yoshiya Nobuko's 1924 literary work, Hana monogatari (Flower Stories)... at least for girls from certain class backgrounds, there was an extended period of adolescence that soon generated its own dedicated cultural milieu.

>Anthropologist Jennifer Robertson points out in an essay on the all-women Takarazuka troupe that "literally speaking, shojo means a 'not-quite-female female. . . . Shojo also implies heterosexual inexperience and homosexual experience" - presumably homosexual because the emotional life of the shojo is essentially narcissistic in that it is self-referential, and self-referential as long as the shojo is not employed productively in the sexual and capitalist economies.

There's so much inner/outer world stuff to unpack.

It's in the Journal of Japanese Studies. Been meaning for years to comb through all the Japanese studies journals and pull out stuff related to shoujo culture. Maybe after this degree gets finished.

>>8628149
God, I love Google Scholar. This subject is so interesting. When I was looking at going to grad school for Japanese, there was one professor I was looking at who did a lot of research on Japanese women's studies. Her work sounded really fascinating.

>>8627672
Pretty sure that's Emily Temple Cute's Fruit basket/Veggie basket print.

>>8627636
Please be careful when sharing pictures from japanese accounts, if they discover their pictures floating around the internet (or get a sudden influx of followers) they may be creeped out and delete their accounts (it's happened before). I think maybe because of the language barrier and less of a 'share everything everywhere'-mentality?

>>8627722
closet child's chiffon pannier
http://www.closetchildonlineshop.com/product/56866

>>8627630
Picked up some stuff, free shipping. Cardigan's might be oversized on me but I like the colour.

>>8628521
cardigan*
I think that was autocorrect or something.

>>8623172
I really wish pic related came in literally any other color. I'll keep an eye out for their later releases though.

>>8628293
It is! It's hard to think of another culture that managed to produce a truly self-contained girls' culture, where boys actively had to adopt feminine traits to participate instead of the other way around. Very fascinating.

I notice a lot of the time when people don't look right wearing otome or lolita despite having all the fundamentals, it's because there was something about the cultural concept of "shoujo" that didn't translate. It's so important to the aesthetics (like trying to describe why something is cute while something else is not cute), you'd think you'd get more people these days discussing the media around it beyond the obvious like Shimotsuma Monogatari.

All comes down to semiotics in the end, I guess. Thinking about clothes as text, considering each item as a symbol in a wider cultural dialogue. Storytelling through coords, maybe? Here I am TL;DRing in the most pretentious way imaginable.

>>8628749
I think you may have hit the nail on the head as to why so many westerner coords don't have the same 'feel' as many Japanese coords do despite even maybe using same items. Sometimes even in street snaps the girls and women wearing the clothes are projecting something down the lens that I guess is this shoujo thing you've been discussing. In contrast, most westerner's end game in their outfit photos appears to merely be to look 'kawaii desu', to directly mimic the Japanese girls they see posted on Tumblr down to their poses and facial expressions, minus any depth or reference; it always feels a bit disingenuous and can rob the overall feel of an outfit, of the air of whimsy I often get from alot of Japanese photos. I am overly generalising here of course. Pic related is one of my favourite westerner otome bloggers, I feel like she gets the it right more often than not.

About how long does it take after a new release before pieces start showing up on the secondhand market?

>>8628882
Couple of weeks up to half a year, it varies a lot. For some rarer pieces it also takes over a year for the first items to pop up.

it makes much longer for otome pieces to show up second hand than lolita stuff, that's for sure.

>>8628874
I agree that a lot of the problem is imitation (though not with everyone obv, I too am generalizing). Imitation clearly works for some, but you really have to have an eye for detail and a bit of an instinct, kind of like an instinct for connoisseurship. It has to have soul behind it to be believable, you have to wear the clothes instead of the other way around, and some people just naturally get the whole shoujo construct without too much thought.

Or maybe JFashion is built off of imitation in general since authenticity always comes down to what the Japanese girls do instead of stepping up as equal members of a global fashion and actively using our own cultural perspectives to contribute. I'm guilty as charged, tbh. Just throwing stuff out there, I'm still undecided on that whole issue.

>>8628749
Hey, >>8627938 and >>8628293 here. Do people really discuss Shimotsuma Monogatari anymore? I know some newer Lolitas don't know who Novala Takemoto is. What was so fascinating for me from that story was Momoko's individualist ideas in a collectivist culture and how Takemoto decided to tell that story and tie it in with the fashion. When I used to wear Lolita much more, I remember thinking of the different ideas of cuteness and elegance and how they were combined in interesting ways sometimes. I think that's what I like about Otome and older Dolly Kei too. (Though Dolly Kei is a bit different.) Shojo culture has a different kind of whimsy, if that makes sense. I saw it in Mori too. There's something about the particular shojo-ness of Otome and older Lolita (that you still see in some clasic coords) that I find very unique and lovely.

>>8628874
That makes a lot of sense. I know I had issues with how I came off in photos sometimes, but I just don't photograph well and am too distracted by that to think about the shojo feel at the same time. It is really nice when you see people who can do it. The girl in your pic looks cute.

>>8628968
The idea of immitation versus ownership is really interesting. I love seeing pictures from classic lolitas who take a classic piece and run with vintage pieces from various time periods that can work well and make the viewer see a main piece differently. There are some people who do really creative things, but there are so many more who do not. There are plenty who are just as you generalized and described. Making something your own can be a difficult process of trial and error, especially if you are newer, so that might be part of it. Seeing "kawaii" but not the deeper nuances of shojo culture definitely has an influence too.

>>8629270
Haha, I'm definitely a bit out of the mainstream lolita community with my references! Just saw someone bring it up in the lifestyle thread as an example of rococo influence. Loved what Novala had to say about feminine rebellion.

Maybe the Jfashion community as a whole uses Japanese girls as a crutch for codifying standards when we'd get more out this whole community deal by reasoning out why things work and why they don't ourselves? Just musing.

>>8629481
Me too. I just posted all my feelings on the nostalgia thread. (I feel like I'm still stuck in the last decade.) The way he wrote Momoko's feelings about Rococo aesthetics and beautiful things was so interesting. I didn't feel like the things she wore in the movie reflected that as well as they could have. I haven't thought of it until just now, but I wonder if Momoko's criticisms of Ichigo contributed any to the mentality in ye olde "lifestyle" versus "edgy" debate. Have there ever been any major pop-culture books or movies for other J-fashions? I haven't come across anything quite like Shimotsuma Monogatari.

Yeah, I'm not really sure where the line of authenticity would be. When do things move from being J-fashion to being "inspired by" J-fashion? Maybe people are afraid of crossing that line and seeming like weebs or people who don't know what they're doing.

Also, so as not to drift too far away from Otome discussion, I'm never sure if the things I like are still a little more on the Lolita side. I love pic related, for example but think it might be up for debate, but I feel like it's more Otome from how the patterns are used. (It was labeled Otome, but people label things wrong all the time.)

>>8628521
Source on the super cute dotty coat please! I searched in every category but no luck.

>>8629540
Maybe, which would be kind of funny since the whole point of the story Momoko learning to loosen up a bit and be cool with Ichigo. On the old lifestyle debate the way I remember it, it seemed like a lot of that was following a guide to make your life more lolita (in almost a camp kind of way, tbh) instead of naturally leading a feminine lifestyle with lolita snapping into it naturally?

It's what I've always liked about Jane, there's more variety with cut and theme so you get more choice for fitting the coords into your life. Lolita or otome, that's the difference that makes something believable as clothing.


I'd say it's otome styling, and it's probably the skirt that's throwing you off (I'm guessing this is why: it's a good shape and the embroidery fits the general theme of the top part, but small ruffles over the top of the skirt tends to show up in lolita styling. Maybe that combined with fabric weight?).

I'd probably go with a heavier fabric while wearing velvet and regimental stripes, like the kind of a-line box pleat skirt Jane Marple does, but that's just personal opinion.


Now you've got me wanting to do research on Jfashion and associated pop cultural works. I think Novala was pretty unique in his approach, though.

>>8630398
I might have gotten the last one, it was $47 on their flash sale page, only AU 10 (us 6) left.

>>8612492
Which brand?

>>8630693
It wouldn't be the first time that someone misenterpreted one of the messages from a book.

JM is so lovely. I'm always concerned that the large patterns or ones that pop a lot would look awful on me, but I love seeing the outfits that others put together.
I think the texture of the hem and hat details are the major things that made me question it. The socks, boots, and regimental top seem consistent with Otome to me. Blazers can really go either way, I think. The pattern combination seems to be more of an Otome aesthetic too. I'm tempted to make a coord with picrelated, since it's low on ruffles and big on interesting patterns. It's my absolute favorite piece that I've ever bought. The brocade fabric is so nice and might lend itself well to Otome. Sorry the picture is so small. I couldn't find the dress on Lolibrary and can't recall the name.

Ooh, I'd love to know if you find anything on the subject. It seems like a very niche area of study. (Says the woman whose thesis topic is in an area so rarely studied that she can't put together a solid literature review without going to other topics to compare and contrast elements of each in relation to her research.)

Also, would you like to swap e-mails and keep in touch? I can do the pen pal thing too, if you'd like letters on cute stationary.

I have Bodyline's sailor dress arriving soon, could I get away with using it in otome?

>>8631102
Hello Bones Jones. I'm about to overhaul the website and put all of the current pieces on sale in the lead up to releasing original prints, though.

I hope that you guys like 100% silk twill and bunnies with umbrellas.

>>8631410

>bunnies
>BUNNIES

What's your estimated price point? So I can start saving up for it.

>>8631410
Between this and the bird preview earlier in the thread, I'm super hyped for more from you.

>>8628874
I agree with you, I feel like quite a lot of westerners don't have this feel, and I feel it's really mainly down to the little nitty gritty things like hair and makeup.

Look at the pictures for example. It's like that little bit of extra care goes into choosing items and hair(and cuts of the dresses also, having it suit to your body)

I like the girl you've posted about- I've seen that coordinate you've posted in the Ita threads. They simply just don't understand the world of Otome and should really keep their frills out of it.

I just think westerners tend to try too hard. Keep it simple! Every outfit does not have to be super extra special and unique. Good basics goes a long way.

>>8631413
They'll be around $160US, I think. It'll depend on the exchange rate when I open reservations..
>lolstralia

>>8631425
Thanks so much, anons! I have a few collections ready to print up now.

>>8631543
rise of the australian otome indie brands...

>>8631543
>Bones Jones
I'm genuinely curious why you ausies are all into otome suddenly? I'm not complaining. I, for one, welcome our Australian otome overlords.

But it is a thing the lolita comm or some individuals over there are moving more towards? Also, link to your store. Bunny's are my thing and I can't wait to get Bunny Voyage soon too.

>>8631616
I'm honestly not sure! I've never been a part of any local comms and am in a different state to PF/MC, haha. Forever a lonetome.

Link is just HelloBonesJones.com

>>8631616
It's certainly been gaining popularity worldwide but I think Australians gravitate towards it because of our weather and lifestyle. It's hot as balls here and we can be pretty laid back. Lolita doesn't always mesh well with that, so otome is more practical but still cute.

>>8631493
What do you mean with those pictures? The bottom western girl for example is almost identical to the right, the 'lack of thought' into the hair is just that they don't have bangs, and and aren't standing shyly covering their face like the japanese girl.

>>8631493
All of these women look just fine. You need to take off your weeb glasses if you think westerners ~don't get the feel~ of otome.

>>8631865
I think you need to read the whole thread before commenting on the tail end of a conversation because it seems you have missed the main point.

>>8631621
Oh Jesus i didn't know that print series existed and now it's in my dream dress list

>>8631865
How about you get off your high horse and read the post i've replied to, idoit.

>>8624579
My thesis was on shoujo culture and how lolita created "shoujo" spaces where girls could express themselves away from the male gaze.
It was interesting comparing mainstream fashion magazines and lolita magazines. Mainstream magazines would often talk about relationships and being popular among men, but we don't see that in the GLB. It was really eye-opening in some sense.

I would really love to read more about lolita framed in an academic way.

>>8631407
No. That's Lolita. Otome is not Lolita without a petti.

>>8631912
Point still stands. Japanese women don't "get" otome in a way westerns don't. There are plenty of good and bad coordinates everywhere.

Admittedly I've found otome harder to coord than lolita. They look so simple & casual but there's definitely an art to it.

>>8617093
>>8617094

Casual (yet beautifully coorded) Lolita.

The more you google image otome brands & their coords, the more you'll get an idea of what is & what is not.

>>8631865
>>8632004
Not all westerners are bad, not all Japanese are great. But Japanese girls have more access to the nuance that makes up otome. It's like trying to explain to a British normie why JM British-inspired prints aren't quite British as they know it.

>>8632139
Wouldn't a British person be better qualified to answer that question?
Even in that scenario, the only thing that would really out it as non-British is that it's not from Britain. Which honestly seems like the reason people here think westerners' outfits aren't considered otome, because they're not from Japan. Apart from that, the only difference I can see in the collage posted above is that the Japanese girls look more demure, while the western girl in the top left could almost be considered sultry and the one on the bottom is posing in a more confident matter. Other than that, I still don't understand what this "something that goes beyond the camera lens" is.

>>8631766
>>8631865
I thought the anon was saying they were all good examples? If anything, the Japanese girl bottom right isn't as good as the other coords.

>>8632231
>Which honestly seems like the reason people here think westerners' outfits aren't considered otome, because they're not from Japan.

Eh nobody here has said that at all, you seem overly defensive about things that you seem to be pulling out of thin air. We've even posted photos of westerner otome outfits we like. Most of this conversation has gone right over your head it seems. Also we were generalizing and not even specifically about otome either, about Jfashion in general.

>Other than that, I still don't understand what this "something that goes beyond the camera lens" is.

No shit

>>8632231
I'm Scottish so I'm qualified to answer. Yes, it looks weird. Otome clothes tend put together in a way that doesn't look right to standard UK fashion sensibilities, even though a lot of it is inspired by British iconography.

What I mean to say is, if you wear JM regularly, even casually, you do get normies asking about what's going on with the dresses. It's in print choice, cut, fabric, a lot of stuff. We do tend to have cuter highstreet fashion than the States in general, but you can really see the difference if you hold otome up to a comparable UK cute coord that you'd see on your average girl at uni. It's one of those things you have to see in action.

>>8632231
It's non-British in that it's too sugary and cutesy. British twee fashion can be colourful sure but it's never whimsical prints past Cath Kidston or Orla Kiely which still have a different, more adult feel than lace and ribbons and teddy bear cookie prints.

Does anyone know any magazines dedicated to otome kei? I know Kera sometimes feature it and Spoon (I think)

>>8632410
Yeah, it's one of those things where you can use British twee items in an otome coord, but you'll probably have to give it some extra oomph to make it really otome as a whole.

>>8632554
The bible is So-en. It's technically more to do with Bunka Fashion College, but they do the best photoshoots with otome brands.

>>8632561
Is this it?

>>8632578
It is!

All the photos from the OP are from older issues.

Like I said, lots of fashion represented in it since it's tied with Japan's main fashion school, but they do some really solid otome styling.

This was posted in the otome group, I think it's a super cute outfit.

>tfw no friends to look cute with

I'm having such a problem putting bright red with other colors. I like red but I always feel like
clothes - clothes - TOMATO - clothes
when I'm looking in the mirror

>>8632899
Dw, soon we will be together in all our JM glory, hang in there anon!

>>8632878
It's okay? I don't know, it really reminds me of a grandma with her slacks up way too high

>>8632878
Needs a better blouse. I don't think it fits the coord at all and makes her look frumpy.

>>8632899
Girl on the right looks so fucking on point gorgeous it makes me sad Girl in red is cute too.
Are all of those shoes brand?

>>8633630
The two one right are JM, the red ones probably, the ones on the left probably not

>>8633627
Otome is frumpy. It's a frumpy fashion.

>>8633670
I don't think it's a frumpy fashion.
Loose clothing =/= frumpy

I do disagree with >>8633627 though, I don't think it looks particularly frumpy.

>>8632878
that looks kind of painful..

>>8633627
>>8634252
I think a lot of it is actually to do with having a skirt on the natural waist with a tucked in blouse, especially if you've got boobs at all. The blouse would probably look better if the skirt was about an inch lower and the waistband was more visible. Do think it's a cute combo though, especially with the socks.

>>8633670
You might prefer flirty lolita as a style?

Does anyone know what the bust measurements are like on back shirred jsks from Leur Getter? There's no bust measurements on the site or on lolibrary but that new 'chaton chocolat' dress calls to me

>>8635170
They're pretty generous compared to ETC. The unshirred ones I have are about 90cm in the bust I think, maybe a bit bigger.

Recently bought this. Plan to pair it with a red cardigan but stuck on what to go with in terms of legwear. I'm trying to avoid being matchy matchy.

Does anyone have any pictures of this dress worn/coords? I have only found a few.

If anyone's looking into the idea of a Japanese concept of girly, there's a post in the larme kei thread that might be of interest.
>>8640221

>>8635170
Leur Getter has very forgiving shirring and it's super comfortable. It fits my 98cm bust better than my full back shirred AP pieces. Although I don't fully stretch out the shirring, I wouldn't recommend it for anyone bigger.

>>8637905
Standard otome-wear: striped tights or socks, yellow and white.

But, going crazy here... I kind of think tights in a coordinating grey tone with sparkles would say "winter". Then maybe layer a long sleeved wide-striped shirt in yellow and white underneath (wide neck so it doesn't interfere with the neck on the dress) instead of the red cardi. I'm just biased since I love pairing yellow, grey and white.

Or maybe play with texture with a pair of short fluffy socks in white. Or some long gold lame socks?

>>8632878
for me the yellow in the hat and tights doesn't mesh well with the tan in her shoes. i think a tan hat to match the shoes and a blazer in brown or darker blue would pull it together more.

>>8632899
Is the girl on the left in a skirt or in high waisted shorts? I love it either way

>>8633327
Go for darker wine reds instead of bright tomato/firetruck red, maybe?

>>8637905
you could do yellow/white socks, harlequin patterned tights, something from Grimoire in that reddish color they release, even emerald green. what shoes are you planning on wearing with this?

>>8640342
This was really interesting, thanks for linking it anon

>>8636946
>>8640377
I'm bordering on 104cm, but that's partly because I'm a J cup so I could squeeze them in. What do you think gulls? Would it be too much for the bodice? (I know it'll be pushing it top length wise, but I'm confident I can disguise that with the right cardigan)

>>8640648
Oh my god, you poor thing. I'm usually between an F and a G and my clothing shopping life is hard enough - I feel for you, girl.

>>8634766
"flirty lolita"? Do you mean like, flirty lolita as its own separate style from normal, non-flirty lolita?

>>8640776
Sarcasm anon

>>8640648
>>8640663
>Japanese brands may increase their overall sizing, but they'll never make things to properly suit large busts.

>>8641116
Alternatively, I wish things like this would catch on more in the West so chances of broader size ranges would be higher. I'm so fucking tired of boho-chic and tribal prints and other shit of that ilk.

>>8640389
I was actually thinking about some greytoned tights with sparkles!

Thanks for your other suggestions. I was considering something yellow also so glad to see someone else is on the same page.

>>8640483
I hadn't really thought of what shoes to pair it with yet. Probably some boots considering it will be for winter.

>>8641120
Don't worry anon, it's happening. Slowly.

>Forever 21 stocks some sensible, solid, cute Peter Pan collar blouses for the first time in what must be 5 or 6 years.
>All sizes sold out except Medium

Medium anons, h-have at them

>>8637905
Here are a few photos of it worn to give you ideas! I do agree with >>8640389 to get some yellow in there.

>>8643257
Really appreciate it. Thanks.

What tights would you recommend for Bunny Voyage? It's getting pretty chilly here now, so I'm trying to put together something comfy and cute.

>>8611685
Thank you anon

What the hell even goes with navy? I have a solid navy dress I want to use but I'm at a standstill when it comes to what interesting colors to pair it with.

>>8646729
mustard, wine, forest, black, brown, cream, etc. Can't really go wrong.

>>8646729
I remember seeing a navy dress paired with a grass green/cream polka dot cardigan before, was pretty cute. Navy's a neutral, so it can go with most things, it'll depend a lot on warm or cool tone.

Otome makes me feel like getting rid of all my lolita dresses all the time, but when I try to do it... I just can't bring myself to.

Otome makes me feel like getting rid of all my lolita dresses all the time, but when I try to do it... I just can't bring myself to.

>>8646744
Thanks anon! I thought of black, brown, and cream but that sounded very boring to me. I don't know how those other colors escaped me though, they're good ideas.

>>8647316
That sounds really pretty! I was looking for brighter color suggestions like that, thank you.

>>8611130
Since people were talking about it in another. Thread, what do you guys think of the idea of gothic otome? Anyone have examples?

>>8647614
I think that if people want to wear a simpler style of gothic lolita, they should call it gothic lolita or something else entirely. We've already had this style before, it was just the Japanese goth style you saw around about when the J-Horror wave happened.

I mean, I guess if you use manga heroine as your main touchstone for otome, gothic otome would be like a Kazuo Umezu heroine, or like Ofelia in Pan's Labyrinth. But that would be entirely based on color scheme and sombre mood, not 2 spoopy and not motifs. Definitely not motifs. You'd have to have a REALLY airtight concept behind it and at least crack open a book or two.

The idea of VM being goth otome is absurd. That's literally classic lolita.

>>8647548
You could try to wear them in an otome way. Unless all your dresses look like the Salon de the Rose.

>>8647614
I feel otome is too broad to split up into different categories (which sounds contradictory but I don't know how else to phrase it). There's no such thing as "sweet otome", just otome in lighter colors, so it doesn't make sense to be specific and call otome in somber colors "gothic otome".
What is the obsession with everything having its own separate name?

>>8647817
I don't mean in the sense of specific substyles, just that I haven't seen much goth-inspired otome.

I agree with >>8647817 otome is just otome and it is a phenomenon that exists in many Jfashions because Japanese know how to shoujo but to bring it back to this specific style
>>8647823 I get what you mean, but what you are describing really is just gothic. Think Wednesday Addams. She wears what is essentially a otome dress; a black one piece with white collars and cuffs. But would you tag a picture of Wednesday Addams as otome kei on Tumblr?

>>8647836
I get what you're saying too, but I probably would tag a wednesday addams-esque coord as otome, because it's pretty far removed from how people who call themselves goth actually dress at this point.

>>8647932
I see that too, its a wierd dichotomy. If you crave darker themes from your otome kei do as previous anon suggested and just incorporate darker colours into your coords, if that isnt enough just be a goth. I
like goth.

>>8647729
Why not motifs?

>>8647729
What is this J-horror wave?Do you mean guro old school outfits?
>>8647614
Hey anon, you saw my post right?
>>8647817
I think it's because we are used to lolita categorisation. It's a bit weird i don't see much "gothic" otome outfits, many otome kei brands do black jsks or OPs that would be appropriate.

Break out of that

>>8647957
Normal gothic fashion tends to be very "on the nose" with its use of motifs if that makes any sense? It's rarely just a dress in ivory white, reminiscent of a skull, it had to be an actual skull print with skull and crossbone necklace.

>>8647963
I mean like Black Peace Now and a few other brands that were doing similar grown up girly goth in Japan, and yeah, I guess gurololi as a theme came out around about that time. Not a wave necessarily, just an interest in goth dressing that coincided with a horror boom happening in culture around the same time, maybe the tail end of VK too. Japanese goth is nothing these days compared to what it used to be.

>>8647817
>What is the obsession with everything having its own separate name?
Not related to the gothic otome debate, but I never really understood the backlash against naming lots of substyles. Maybe I'm just a mega autist but I really like breaking things up into categories. It's fun and makes it easier to find specific things or create a specific look. I don't think that everything should have to have strict rules or fit into certain categories, but I like them to exist. Just my two cents.

>>8647995
Describing things is alright, but I feel like as soon as you say something is a specific substyle, people start drawing up rules for it and there's a "right" way to wear it. Look at what happened to country and pirate lolita.

It's the difference of saying something is gothic otome and something is otome with some subtle goth flair.

>>8647799
Definitely have some otome-able dresses, but some stuff has definitely got to go..
I love the lolita aesthetic just as much as otome, but wear otome so much more because it's a lot more practical.

I'm in the process of moving to another country and looking to sell loads of stuff. I'm having a hard time justifying buying more otome, but keeping the lolita stuff. I'm literally listing 30+ items of stuff that I just never wore and making a lost on a lot of them..

>>8632003
Not her, but what is otome exactly?
I've never really looked into it before, but I don't really see that much of a difference between otome and lolita.
Except for the not really matching thing.

>>8648986
I feel like in lolita the point is to look like a doll while in otome it's to look like a young maiden.
People here are more qualified to answer in greater detail but that's what the basic difference is to me.

>>8649072
Honestly VM, MM and IW are about looking like a young maiden more so than doll. Young maidens don't look as kitsch, kooky and whimsical as otome does.

>>8649084
It's a different interpretation of maiden. Otome takes British eccentric style and reinterprets it with a Japanese shoujo sensibility. With more of a foothold in 20th century retro fashion, I'd say Taisho period forward. It makes sense if you look at how patterns and color are used.

Also, I've always thought some of it had bit of the art student look to it. Look at how So-en is connected to Bunka.

Can I ask a weird question to some of the more experienced otomes in here please? I have pic related. I am wondering if I should WTT for the dark round biscuit version of the swimmer bag as I feel it would match better. However, I bought the heart one because I liked the detailing and effort. Am I just shit at co-ording that I can't make it work, am I just worrying too much and they're both fine, or am I finally learning the difference between otome and lolita and on the right track trading it in for the rounder, plainer one?

>>8649660
Are you selling? Or only looking to trade? I'd be interested in buying

>>8649660
The heart one is fine, anon! You're over-thinking it.

The biggest thing to remember if you're coming into Otome from Lolita is more about clutter than motif; Lolita-specific pieces (including bags, for relevancy) usually have a lot of excess small details in them.
A lot of lolita coords involve multiple (if not every) pieces having this excess of details, where Otome works best with big swathes of solid or blocky details and one or two 'impact' pieces which are heavily detailed.

>tl;dr This bag is lovely. It's clean-cut and easy on the eyes. Pair with anything.

I recently bought this bunny dress at H&M. Anyone think I could make an otome coord with it?

>>8649660
This would be fine with otome, anon. I think you're overthinking it too much.

>>8650033
Maybe with a cardigan or a blazer? I'm not totally sure but I do think this dress is pretty adorable.

>>8650033
This is really cute, anon! Imagine it with a detachable collar and colored tights.

>>8644475
>>>8611685
s-sauce on the black shoes?;_;

>>8650720
They're from Aerosoles.
http://www.aerosoles.com/store/jump/product/Silver-Dollar-Victorian-Style-Ankle-Boot/SILVER-DO
They're kind of pricey but I jumped at the chance to get some size 12 strappy boots! You can also use the code TW9EFS to get 20% off + free shipping.

>>8650033
It's adorable! When I spotted it in H&M a while back I thought it would be great for otome.

>>8649881
Was only potentially trading I'm afraid. I'll post in here if I change my mind.

>>8649927
>>8650038
Thanks anons, sometimes as a noob I'm never sure if it's paranoia or just a genuine learning curve

>>8649927
Cosigned. It's like the difference between a wedding cake and a lattice top pie.

I'm so lost..what kind of shoes can an eurofag wear for otome?

>>8654282
do you not have shoes in Europe
like
anything smart/ classy looking
leather brogues, plain mary janes, ankle boots, fancy flats (eg. melissa), strappy boots
black, brown, any colour
probably not lolita shoes
how is this even a problem
I've even seen 'smart' tennis shoes/ plimsol trainer things used in casual summery coords
i don't think you are understanding this style

>>8654376
also excuse the lack of grammar/ capitalisation

>>8654282
Look at the pictures in the thread,anon, oxfords, lace-up boots, simpler lolita shoes, or even some ankle boots could work with otome

>>8654376
to be fair I've been to stores in my shitty poorfag country and seen practically nothing loliable. nothing even remotely similar to my dream shoes (http://amzn.com/B00B00Z3OC).). they don't even have classical mary janes or anything

>>8654387
derp, I didn't realise this wasn't a loli thread, go me. shoes still seem to work though.

>>8654376
you can try ebay, amazon, all those classics. honestly as long as you're not in eastern europe like me you should be fine with whatever your regular shoe stores offer

>>8654376
Eurofags should have access to Irregular Choice too. The floral print boots and brogues this season are good.

>>8654387
anon if you actually are in eastern europe I can try and give you some shoe recs for poland although that's a super long shot

>>8654282

There are tons of shoe options in Europe. They just tend to be a bit more expensive on average. But it's worth the money, it's all high quality brands. There are just a few, that come to mind:
brako
hotter
dkode
neosens
tamaris
everybody

>>8653373
I'm definitely going to be using this analogy.

While we're on the topic of shoes, what sort of shoes would go with otome in the winter? I live in the cold harsh north and we get snow up to my knees... My trustful winter companions up until now have been a tidy pair of knee-high combat boots, and I thought I should see if they look too.. harsh? If anybody has examples of outfits fit for colder weather in general I'd be happy to see them! (And before anyone says otome is fit for chillier weather, it's already too cold for your typical otome coord around here. I'm freezing!)

>>8656376
I have this one saved that looks pretty warm.
As far as warmer boots, i'd say knee-high lace-up boots that are daintier than combat boots (slightly pointed instead of rounded toe area and maybe a small heel if you can get away with it in snow) would work.

>>8650033
Is this is a recent item? I want it.

>>8654433
I'm a bit up north from there, but thanks for the offer.

>>8654462
literally only one of those that I've seen over here is tamaris

>>8656376
Mostly I wear chunky granny type boots and extra socks through winter. When we have fresh snow or I'm going somewhere extra snowy I wear fur lined winter boots. I think otome fashion is more forgiving when it comes to shoes, but I also think that my toes falling off, slipping on ice and falling to my death or getting snow in my shoes and being wet are more important issues than if my boots matches perfectly.

>>8656405
Yeah it's pretty recent. There's also a blouse.

>>8656376
I'd probably just get a pair of heritage-style snowboots and make them the focal point of a whole wintery/fairytale theme. When I lived way up north, I used to use layer up on handknit textured woolen accessories, Nordic sweaters in icy colors or vintage, heavy wool circle skirts (or just layering tights under my JM ones that fit the theme), and a pair of either big fuzzy boots or vintage '70s hiking boots. Getting a boot with a bit of a story (and some texture or volume) behind it was the key to driving home the theme.

Always thought a pair of Sami beak boots would look cute with a winter theme too, plus it gives Sami craftspeople business.

>>8656414
Do you have Swedish Hasbeens? The Lillan boot is cute and has a wooden sole that adds some interest. Maybe Minna Parikka too, if you don't mind heels. The Raquel or the bunny ear slippers look like they could have potential with the right coord. And if anyone is looking for an unusual pair of pop-style gloves, they have heart driving gloves...

>>8631205
Hello! It's been a while, but I'm finally back on a real computer. If you're still around, my email is up top.

>>8656405
Yup, most stores should have them in stock. I know the location I work at just sold out. There's a white button down blouse in the same pattern like >>8656560 said

>>8656619
Ooh, thanks. This makes me feel less annoyed about needing to trek downtown for an appointment tomorrow. I saw the blouse on the website, but not the dress. I'll check in store tomorrow.

Only five posts til a new thread!

If anyone's actually reading the academic shoujo papers from the middle of the post...

Romantic Love in the Early Fiction of Banana Yoshimoto - Anna Felicia C. Sanchez (the paper's up on open access, just Google Scholar it. The URL is pinging the spam filter here)

Highlight:
>Youthfulness is also a mark of shoujo, but this concept of youth is not just external: it is found in a nostalgia for the past and the lost—reminiscent of classical Japanese aesthetics like perishability— mono no aware...

Always here for classical aesthetics talk! The idea of shoujo nostalgia as a function of "past" and "lost" is so interesting, I feel like it describes JM's collection theme choices to a T. Plus, makes a nice distinction between straight vintage and otome as a Jfashion with heavy vintage inspiration.

Enjoyed the bit about the semiotics of shoujo romantic love too. It's a pretty clear explanation of the semiotics concept, handy considering how much you need to rely on symbols to make fashion talk.

>>8657002
You should write a blog about this, anon. I would be so interested.

>>8657014
There's an idea. There're people out there far more qualified with actual backgrounds in cultural studies and anthropology, but it *is* a lot of fun to research and talk about...

It's online!
My wallet slipped and bought the full print JSK..

It's online!
My finger slipped and I bought the full print JSK..

>>8656414
Are you Estonianon? There's a Camper in Tallinn (or pretty much everywhere in Europe). These in particular would be pretty darn cute with some wear if you like lace up ankle boots. http://www.camper.com/en_US/women/shoes/bowie/camper-bowie-K400022-003

>>8657746
hi finanon and damn you for getting me hopeful for 2 seconds.
>pic related
next sweden trip, I guess.

>>8657749
How strange, I saw a listing that placed it at the Foorum shopping center in central Tallinn. Maybe it didn't find a market.

>>8657755
I just looked it up and apparently there's a fucking Lush there
looks like I'm going out this weekend, rip wallet

>>8657758
They've also apparently got a Noa Noa. I've seen some great shoes and boots there before (their Alice boots!), but a lot of it is dependent on what their collection looks like that season.

>>8657758
Now you've got me researching unusual shoe options in the Baltic states, anon.

It's a bit of a hop over the border, but there're apparently places in Riga and Helsinki that sell Trippen. Most of the shoes are waaaaay too avant garde for what we're going for, but the shoes that look like ghillie brogues might work. I think I might need to get a pair of these for a ballet inspired coord. From what i remember, JM has done similar toe boxes in the past on boots. http://en.trippen.com/products/great-f

>>8657860
damn, those look pretty sweet but the pricing is eeeevil. I really need to pick up a part time job at this rate.
also, noa noa apparently doesn't show their shoes on their website which is sad

>>8657907
I think the fact Noa Noa seem to be doing minimalism this season isn't helping. I've gotten some excellent cropped knitwear and blouses from there too, which I'm not seeing so much of on the site right now. But hopefully they'll go back to unusually colored combats, Victorian styled booties and mary janes soon.

>>8657101
Yeah, I have no legitimate education in any of this but I love to read about it. No pressure, of course, but it'd be really cool, I think.

>>8647990
Jgoth currently is more into the nu-goth, pastel goth side right?
>>8650033
>tfw here no H&M

>>8657002
I love these posts about academic shoujo papers, this thread has been my favorite Otome thread so far on cgl to be honest. This stuff is so inspiring and interesting to read about, thanks for posting anon. I second you starting a blog about this stuff! I would absolutely read it.

>>8642945
anyone find a sweater like this, it's perfect

>>8631407
I think this is the sort of dress that could go either lolita or otome with different accessories. With a less poofy petticoat and some kitschy accessories, I think it might work for otome.