/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>8380967

Anyone have suggestions for old school-esque blouses that aren't cotton? I have an intense hatred of ironing, and hate how bulky cotton can be. I'm trying to incorporate some old school pieces and general old school feeling into my wardrobe.

Also, more old school gothic please.

>>8380971
I can't help, I like cotton even though it's bulky under my dresses. But I would think anything with a bigger collar and lace detailing in black, cream, or white would work.

>>8380969
Any more pictures of oldschool with short sleeves, or other summer-appropriate oldschool? Bonus points if it's gothic rather than sweet. I'm looking for summer inspiration.

I know this was posted in the lolita gen thread but I was wondering what lolitas that have been in the fashion for say, 7+ years (or anyone really) think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwnmGod0OqM

I discovered lolita fashion in late 2002 and went to my first meet in early 2004, everything in the video seems so far removed from what I believed lolita fashion to be at that time. It still seemed very much like a street fashion back then, and the idea of being 'dressed to impress, tea party ready' never even crossed our minds. We just wanted to hang out and try to capture some of the magic taking place on the streets of Harajuku. I think we also had somewhat creepy Victorian dolls in our mind more than the opulence of rococo when we got dressed - we felt more badass than beauteous.

I don't dislike modern lolita as such, some of the clothing is so beautiful it's almost high-fashion in appearance, I suppose I just struggle to identify with it.

>>8380971
>>8380981
Cutsews were popular back in the day, and they're made of stretch T-shirt material so they don't need ironing.

>>8381012
Yeah, I only got into lolita two or three years ago and I still find it deeply disappointing how they didn't really address the roots of the fashion, the links with goth and the Japanese music scene or even street style at all. They made it sound like the idea of a gothic lolita was a modern twist and rococo-style classic was the original lolita, which was a bit of an odd progression.

>>8380996

>>8381042

>>8381044

>>8381050
just dumping all the short sleeved coords

>>8381056

>>8381058

>>8381062

>>8381020
Agreed, it seemed to be defined by what it is today, or rather the styles that seem most prevalent. Of course defining the fashion in its current form makes sense, but it is a shame they offered so little in terms of background - it also kinda made lolitas seem like just a bunch of shallow, overdressed fashion snobs.

>>8381064

>>8381067

>>8381070

>>8381075

>>8381076
Momoko wears a lot of short sleeved coords

>>8381082

>>8381084

>>8381066
No offense meant, I mean I'm a lolita too, but isn't that kind of what we are when you get down to it?

>>8381085
Sorry that last one wasn't short sleeved but still old school

>>8381087

>>8381091

>>8381093

>>8381097

>>8381101

>>8381103

>>8381109

>>8381067
I have this pic in my old school folder but does anyone know what year it's actually from? As frustrating as the 'old-school = ita' crap that people spout is, I must admit in this instance it does look pretty awkward, if endearing in a goofy kinda way.

>>8381111

>>8381112
I have no idea, I think I got it from one of these threads actually. I have to agree with you that it looks pretty awkward, but then again one of my favourite things about oldschool is how frumpy some of the coords are

>>8381122

>>8381127
>>8381112
Forgot to say, I'm sure it's from the 90s though

>>8381133

>>8381103
striped lace-topped UTKs will forever be my guilty pleasure

>>8381134

>>8381139

>>8381141

>>8381143

>>8381148

>>8381155

>>8381086
Well, I don't know about you or some of the other people in the fashion, but I'm not. In fact I would say snobby and shallow is probably the exact opposite of what I am and the reason I'm into it.

>>8381012
Didn't watch the video, don't have time. For me, been following Lolita for 7 or 8 years now I think, I had the image of fairy tales in my mind when I got dressed, and to this day that's still the image I have and try to aim for. I like both the idea of Rococo Aristocracy and Victorian dolls influence too though. I like both the badass and beautiful sizes of Lolita, however, I wish that modern Lolita was more willing to combine both. I hope modern Lolita will start to remember it's roots, and I'd like to see brands do old school style dresses once in a while besides the one baby doll that BABY always has.

I get so nostalgic for the way the style was when I first discovered it sometimes. I like to look at modern Lolita, but I don't get the same excited feeling I do about old school Lolita. I like to dress in a cross between old school and modern. It never really ends up with an old school feeling though, just looks like today's standard of casual Lolita. Oh well.

>>8381162

>>8381169

>>8381174

>>8381177

>>8381179

>>8381185

>>8381187

>>8381169
>>8381174

Jeez these take me back anon, I remember them from livejournal - is that where you saved them from?

>>8381189

>>8381191
At this point I've lost track, quite possibly. I'm trying to collect every possible image of oldschool I can get my little hands on, and I'm doing quite well so it's pretty hard to remember where they all came from

>>8381203

>>8381206

>>8381212

>>8381020
Agreed 100%. I did like the video though

>>8381214

>>8381218

>>8381222

>>8381228

>>8381234

>>8381237

>>8381240

>>8381244

>>8381250

>>8381252

>>8381255
That's pretty much all the short sleeved oldschool coords I have on this computer so I'm done for now

>>8381203
Good work anon, it's refreshing to see some images rarely posted here, especially the stuff that's not just the same ones from tumblr over and over.

I would've never gotten in lolita if it had just stayed as old school but I like how it didn't need to feel so high end fashion at the time.

>>8381259
Thanks so much anon! I didn't expect so much to humour my request, this is really inspiring.

>the days when make-up advice fold you to keep it minimal

>>8381012
As someone that got into lolita recently and love both the look of modern and old lolita, i disliked this video. They didn't mention how it was born, no old school examples, no linking to visual kei (i mean Mana), because vk has influenced lolita fashion in the past a lot and ofc goth subculture non only the fashion itself. In the past, there was also a lifestyle aspect like also being drawn to creepy and cute things, music that matched the style, more outfits that look like legit street fashion to wear daily, not perfect coordinates with every color matching, OTT accessories and prints. I loved a lot the frumpiness of the old school also.... punk lolita and cutsews.
>btw the coordinates were pretty cute but as i said modern lolita isn't anymore pratical as street fashion
>>8381310
>the days when make-up advice fold you to keep it minimal
Preach it, anon. Now i see some girls putting too much make up that end to look like drag queens.

Has anyone actually had any luck encouraging the oldschool nostalgia etc lolitas back to livejournal? There's been a lot of talk but no real consensus it seems.

I was thinking earlier, 7+ years ago I really can't imagine anyone stressing about 'perfect coordinates', planning for months in advance, organising photo shoots, anticipating 'notes' etc etc. We just wore our shit and went outside and had fun, perhaps occasionally posting to egl, daily_lolita, lolita snap or whatever in order to feel connected and share our love of the fashion.

>>8382486
I don't post to EGL, just lurk, otherwise I would have probably a while ago. I don't know about anyone else.

I think someone, can't remember who, was doing a "Lolita throwback" series for a while. Everyone liked it but nobody was willing to put the time in to continue it once she had to step down from it. I don't think EGL has many active members anymore.

I'm so fed up with cgl right now though, so I hope these can pop up on egl once in a while. I won't be able to participate but at least I can see what everyone else is sharing.

>>8381012
>we felt more badass than beauteous.
i miss this, also. there is more pressure to conform and not be "edgy" now.

>>8381111
Omfg i have this and i could NEVER find a pic of the OP!
Tue lace on mine looks bit dif but it was pretty worn when i got it.
The sweets print one

>>8382499
It was milkteamilk, who's the blogger of fyeahlolita.

Personally I wouldn't go back to LiveJournal. It's clunky and shit.

>>8381310
>the days when make-up advice fold you to keep it minimal
Yess I miss this! I have an appreciation for good makeup, but so much of it feels overdone. If your eyeshadow doesn't match your dress you might as well go home.
I know it's not quite that bad, but there really is a lot of pressure. I've always kept my makeup to a little foundation, powder to set, light blush, mascara + eyeliner, light lip tint, and even then I feel underpainted or boring.

sigh.

>>8382511
This so hard. Like, not even edgy, but anything remotely out of the norm is looked down upon. I don't mean milanoo-tier itas, I mean people who don't match their shades of pink perfectly or who brought a non-matching bag because it was more sensible. Nitpick threads are hellholes for criticising this sort of stuff.
I'm not some fucking living doll, I'm a person wearing a dress.

>>8380971
Cutsews! They're the best.

>>8381240
i need these ops. is this meta? it looks like meta

>>8381034
this just got released

I seriously want this dress in every color. But alas, despite fitting the measurements given by btssb, people with smaller bust sizes than my 92cm warn of boobloaf. It will forever be but a dream. Damn you, genetics.

But it's just so perfect. That lace, that ribbon, that corset lacing, that old school charm... Maybe a sports bra can save me, or perhaps it can be slightly altered? The more I look at it, the more I have to have it.

>>8382810
just buy it its not an expensive dress

>>8382752
They're actually from a GosuRori magazine, but they're probably inspired by Meta's Hospitality Doll series.

>>8382748
Hmmmm MmM does make some nice gothic ones. They're just a touch expensive.

>>8381244
> BABT, THE STARS SHINE BRIGHT
Speaking of, does anybody have those pictures that used to circulate LJ of Baby misspelling their own name on some items?

>>8382757
yus, but I posted it for the oldschool hair and nostalgic look of the whole ensemble in general. Mana is pretty much consistently 'old school' anyway.

>>8382752
These are patterns from Gosu Rori.
The magazine would pic drawings people would send in and make a pattern.
There were also these ops that were clearly very Meta inspired.

>>8381164
>I'd like to see brands do old school style dresses once in a while besides the one baby doll that BABY always has
Sick of seeing people say this who obviously don't check the brands' webpages. Baby has like 9 old-school dresses right now after re-releasing some of their most popular older designs, plus a couple others.

http://www.babyssb.co.jp/info/classical/

>>8383326
And the other nurse one.

>>8383327

>>8382825
I second this, buy one jsk and wear a sports bra and see if it works, if not you can always sell it. In my experience, you want a bra that pulls the breasts up as high as possible (within reason), as busty girls with this dress often claim their under boob doesn’t quite fit into the bodice section and sits too low.

>>8383331
If no-one minds, even though these are re-releases, I'm going to post collages of the stock photos so people can see which colourways are available?

As a side note, Meta also release oldschool-style stuff pretty regularly, even though they don't have much in stock right now.

http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39oj213/

>>8383347
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39oj214/

>>8383271
>baby still misspelling things 2k15

>>8383352
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39js225/

>>8383361
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39js221/

>burberrylita

The tan colourway is reading as chavvy to me as Meta's leopard print series do, only in a kind of amazing way.

>>8382655
>>8382499

Why don't you both just make a Facebook group? I agree LJ is clunky and awful. I'd honestly love to see something in the spirit of an old school community. CoF is such a circlejerk to look the best and anything disliked is ripped apart here. /cgl/ is pretty cancerous to lolita as a whole. LJ had it's drama but it felt disconnected.

>>8383368
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39js216/

>>8383381
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39op321/

>>8383399
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b38op304/

>>8382825
>>8383333
You guys are right. I love it so much, I'll find a way to make it work. I'll add it to my to-buy list.

>>8383446
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39js220/

I was thinking of this poem by Takemoto Novala the other day and I think it captures the 'old school' spirit perfectly. I think this was translated from Japanese by The Osaka Koneko on livejournal originally:


I want to become a lolita, you say.
So become one, I reply.
What can I do to look like a lolita?
I have no words with which to reply to this.
You need a headdress, don't you? And a pannier.
Is this coordinate strange?
Is it not wrong for lolita?
Why do you want to do lolita?
Because it's trendy, because my friends do it...
If that's the case, you have no right to wear lolita.
If you just do what the others do, you will look like a lolita.
But I want you to think about something.
Who do you live for?
You think you want to be yourself, but you are afraid of isolation.
You yell that you want to be free, but you take comfort in following convention.
When you are praised for something you don't even feel comfortable with, are you really satisfied?
Girls who wear Vivienne Westwood but don't even know the Sex Pistols.
Even when wearing a jersey, a princess is a princess.
My lolita rules are mine alone.
So you are the only one who can find your own lolita rules.
My god and your god are different, aren't they?
There are angels who wear elegant dresses and play tamborines,
But there are also angels wearing armor and carrying swords whose job it is to fight.
I can't answer your question.
But there are a lot of hints all around you.
You just haven't noticed yet.
What you feel is right is your answer.
Sew frills onto the hem of your heart!
Put a tiara on top of your soul!
Have pride.

By
Takemoto Novala

>>8383449
If you like it so much, get it. Personally I really dislike the silhoette of it - that babydoll with a longer A-line underneath - but it's iconic and you obviously have your heart set on it.

>>8383462
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/p11js204/

people are always talking about bringing back ringlets, maxipad head dresses, lace knee socks and all that basic sort of stuff, but what I really want to come back is velvet bodices like >>8380934 and matching blouse+skirt combos where they're the same colour but made of separates like >>8381141
I feel like they were really quite prominent but people never use them in recreating old school looks

also punk, more punk always

>>8383463
Ugh. This hit me harder than I thought it would. Novala was sort of my lolita lifestyle muse, not people like Skye.

>joined lolita for the community and just to meet people
>obsesses over looking right constantly
>kind of lost sight of what I actually enjoy and my own personal goals within it

Requesting old Putumayo

>>8383481
You still do get matching sets, just not matching oldschool sets I suppose. Innocent World have released a couple of matching sets lately.

>>8383476
http://www.babyssb.co.jp/onlinestore/b39js209/

Aaaand that's me done for the night. There are a few more, but entirely sold out. Just wanted to give people a sense of how much old-school styled stuff is still being released.

>>8380917
Most of these look... pretty bad.

>People hate on OTT sweet but then think all old school is okay because...???

>>8383463
oh damn... thanks for posting, anon

>>8383540
In what way though? I'm genuinely curious. I'll respect that you have a different opinion.

>>8383370
I personally would love to join any Facebook group that was created, especially if the admin was someone mature enough to not be a salty seagull who tried to keep it to 4chan, but instead suggested it also in Rufflechat, EGL, etc. I feel hesitant about creating one myself because I'm a relative newcomer to the style - I lurked EGL for a long time but I didn't start buying lolita until two years ago. Like >>8381280 said, I would probably have never got into lolita if it had stayed as oldschool, as too much of the style just didn't appeal to me. Right now I only have a few oldschool items and coordinates, focusing on black and blackxwhite, and I lurk these threads for inspiration since I really want to get into collecting velvet and tartans.

Of course there are lots of dresses and coordinates in both modern and oldschool styles that I like, but I feel like in oldschool some outfits are god-tier to me whereas the majority are completely meh or ugly, whereas with modern lolita I find the majority good, some meh, a small minority ugly. I prefer this oldschool revival to when oldschool was the only style, as it means I can pick and choose what are the most beautiful coordinates to me, but don't have to attend meetups with girls with mismatched moon boots (most of the time). I also found essays and the whole pure maiden Novala think pretentious and annoying as fuck, giving too much free reign for people to be ita special snowflakes who were ~real lolitas~ despite not wearing lolita because they were lonely princesses on the inside. But then I feel like lolita these days has gone too far the other way with the anti-lifestyle elements - a little lifestyle in your life is fun!

>>8383552
>didn't start the fashion until later
>doesn't have a robust wardrobe
>no extreme lust over oldschool
>hates snowflakeyness but wants more heart in the fashion

You sound basically like me. I'd love to see you make a community even so.

>>8383463
Does anyone have a link to the original in Japanese as well?

>>8383600
Haha, I have a fairly robust wardrobe but mostly in more modern classic/gothic. I think I'll pass on creating a community, especially since I'm still doing exams at the moment. I feel like if I was to create one some people would kick off because I wasn't around in the old era, and I wouldn't know enough about who to trust to know which oldfags to make admins.

>>8383370
Different anon here, I would love to make an oldschool community on facebook, but I've only been in the fashion for 3 years and despite dressing almost solely in oldschool I feel like I wouldn't be 'qualified' enough or whatever, since Im not an authentic oldfag

>>8383744
I think if you just made one and got some good mods, everyone would flock to it. Don't worry if you yourself are not one. Just get some seasoned lolitas in there to help mod it if you're worried and it'll be fine. I'd love a nostalgia trip group.

>>8383744
Speaking of communities, what would everyone like to see in an oldschool community?

Updates on recent oldschool-style releases? An alternative to CoF for people to post their coords? Somewhere for people to share reviews on oldschool finds?

An old school group would be great. I love old school and although I only own a few pieces that are truly old (2000-2004)and some that are almost considered old school now (06/07) I'm loving the style more and more. Not many people in my comm know about old school or like it and even less wear it. A facebook group would for posting outfit shots, discussing recently bought items/mail threads, favourite pieces and info about old school rereleases or new pieces designed in an old school way would be really helpful. Maybe there could even be an album dedicated to members want to buy or dream dresses. I really hope someone does create a group.

>>8383753
Okay, I think I'm going to make the group and ask for some more experienced lolitas to become mods too.

Would people prefer if I gave it a flowery name or a straightforward one? (If you'd prefer the former I'd definitely appreciate suggestions)

>>8384476
I like a simple name anon as it'd be more accesible and easier to find.

>>8384476
Yeah, just something simple. And don't mention /cgl/ in the description as some of the oldfags are salty as fuck about this board's existence.

>>8384642
Honestly I'm salty about it's existence. But I've been coming here for about a month now because I can't stand tumblr and egl is basically dead. I'm only going to hang around for a while, I'm pretty fed up with it already and it's exhausting having to check back so often to make sure I don't miss anything.

>>8384667
>for about a month now
kek
I think that's most of /cgl/ now, reject SJWs who aren't as SJW as tumblr SJWs so they come here and get preachy and #triggered by everything

>>8384668
What?

>>8384679
>But I've been coming here for about a month now because I can't stand tumblr

>>8384415
If someone does a fb group, i hope they share the link or name so i can join it in a second! I don't have any old school item yet but i'm planning to get some.

>>8382810
I'm an oldfag and perplexed by new lolita but one thing I don't like about dresses like this is it looks like they couldn't make up their mind where they wanted the bottom hem to be

>>8382666
All I do is BB/CC cream, eyeliner, mascara. That's it and I'm finished in 3-5 minutes. Same makeup every day, lolita or not. I've never had fake eyelashes nails, extensions or worn a wig. It feels too fake to me but to others it comes off as me just being 'lazy'

>>8384681
Still don't really get the point you're trying to make. I know why you said what you said but don't get the point of it.

Annnnd contributing with a snap picture. Sorry it's so small.

>>8381195
>Dat bag

Is lovely. Everyone and their loris bags would call this grandma kei

>>8384689
"Sorry it's so small" lol my bad I found a bigger picture before I posted and forgot to delete that. I kinda like the not quite shirt look. Shirt Lolita is gorgeous though. I feel like I can't pull off wearing that much white but it's beautiful.

>>8384694
I'm sorry it keeps auto correcting "shiro" to shirt. Real shiro this time and I'm done.

>>8381164
>I get so nostalgic for the way the style was when I first discovered it sometimes. I like to look at modern Lolita, but I don't get the same excited feeling I do about old school Lolita. I like to dress in a cross between old school and modern. It never really ends up with an old school feeling though, just looks like today's standard of casual Lolita. Oh well.

Are you me? Lol. I wore my first dress I bought in 2006 for ILD because I felt like we would be representing what lolita is to us on that particular day. I've spent so long since joining the wider/online community trying to 'catch up' to the current style I haven't had time or money to invest in the image of lolita I had in my head as a 12 year old. That first dress was offbrand tat but I couldn't bear to let it go and wore it for the nostalgia factor.

I too like the old-new middle ground kind of look too. I got that feel (unexpectedly) from a Hime cood on CoF recently. I love a lot of dresses fom 2005 to 2010 Even my more recent pieces like Haenuli stuff look like pretty dresses to me, but they are not lolita... At least not like I remember.

It's amazing how radically the color palettes, themes, cuts and materials in lolita have changed. At the ILD picnic it was hard to believe we were all in fact wearing the same fashion besides the poof

I think that the really historically inspired dresses and things like J et J stuff should be an entirely separae fashion on their own. All those floor length, chiffon paining dresses and veils. Kate/girlyhoot's shironuri-esque romantic style shit etc. It's beautiful but doesn't look like the neo victorian dollies in black or red/white, shiro, kuro etc in my first GLB at all.

>>8381086
I sort of like the opportunity to look fancy in new school lolita (as a real poorfag) but I got into it because I loved the cute dolly look not because I wanted to look like an aristocrat. Nowadays lolita is about looking as expensive as possible, not it just being expensiv because the fashion is niche.

It must be fancy, it must be ostentatious, there must be lots of jewelry and accessories, props and you must be matchy machy by owning 600 shoes/blouses/tights/bags in every shade of the fucking rainbow...

I don't like snobs. It's not because I'm jealous o have neve experienced better living. I went to private schools and my boyfriend's family are upper class (mansions etc) I am not afraid to say I got my blouse from a thift store and commend others who can do that and not look like shit. Lolita shouldn't be about who has all the $$$, scalping and people liking dresses as a status symbol first but aesthetically second.

>>8384642
I've made the page now, just search "Old School Lolita Community Worldwide" on facebook and you'll find it, I definitely need some admins though as I'm terrible at starting discussions and updates

>>8381133
sometimes i miss the clunky shoes even though they are like, leg avenue

>>8384725
Can't find it.

>>8384728
me too. I always loved the clunky shoes.

>>8384733
when searching you have to click on the more tab more and then click on the group tab or you won't find it.

>>8383327
Meta had some very nice velveteen old school dreses last winter.

>>8384733
/groups/552902281517696/

>>8383449
I'm inspired too!
I want the red one

>>8383547
I'm not that anon but I also can't love this style. The main problems I have are the shoes, makeup style, and the under the knee socks. I love the platforms like >>8381086, but shoes like >>8381084 >>8381056 >>8381042 just read as so clownish to me. The makeup style around the time that old school was popular always made people look so pinched and uncomfortable. And god, I just despise UTK socks in lolita. They cut the leg off at a really weird, unflattering point and the lace just emphasized calves which is not flattering. That said, there are some remnants of old school I love: RHS, those Mana style platforms, rectangle headdresses, and peeking bloomers/ lace topped OTKs. However, these elements are often combined items that really ruin a coord for me. I hope this gave you some insight. I also should mention that I don't love present day lolita either, I err towards a more otome or retro kind of style and I wear toned down rokku gyaru daily.
Pic related: one of the very few oldschool coords that I like, despite the makeup.

>>8384762
Thanks!

How old does a garment have to be in order for it to be considered old school?

>>8384799
I would say released 2006 or beforehand

>>8384787
They're pretty much the things I love about oldschool

>>8384864
Yeah, I'm just not meant for it...

>>8384787
I agree with you, anon. I don't like some of the socks and shoes, and I think the makeup at the time was often bad. Then we like the same things from oldschool...

However, I still prefer an old school coord with clown shoes and harsh makeup to OTT sweet.

>>8383449
Here's one on y!, it's the velveteen version though.
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r128782241

>>8381058
>>8381222

I remember seeing these photos and being hella jelly bc I wanted to be them so bad.

I've been interested in Old School for a while and finally more pieces and would seriously love making a You Tube channel focusing on it.

>>8383609

>>8385278
Ah damn, I was hoping it would be text. I'm terrible and deciphering kanji just with my noob eyes alone. Thank you though, kind anon!

>>8384787
Thank you for answering, although you were not the original anon. I can definitely see what you mean though, I even agree that UTK can can look weird.
In the end, it's probably for the best that not everyone is into how old school looks, because if they were, the fashion wouldn't have evolved, right? And now lots more girls can enjoy dresses together. I feel like I'm not making sense.
Anyway, I will continue this life as a victorian doll.

I found a blog entry from 10 years ago and I think it's pretty interesting.The author is a foreign lolita in japan.

>Some people have gotten mad at me in the past for saying this but...no. I do not think you should not be able to wear whatever you want and call it lolita. The reason isn't because I'm a perfectionist control freak (though I am, horribly so) or because I want everyone to look like Japanese lolita. The reason is quite simple actually.

>Lolita is a Japanese fashion, and as of now people who have even heard of it will automatically think of not Japan when they see us, but Gwen Stephani. Those who have no idea who we are and what we are wearing may think of pornography. There is still little recognition of the non-Japanese global lolita community.

>Part of this is because we are not sure ourselves of what we are I think. A lot of us are trying to follow an ideal that exists in a completely different culture from our own without even having access to the most basic media on the subject. Others take a defensive attitude that says "lolita should be whatever I want it to be." But if we do this, then we're never going to establish ourselves as our own subculture, style, etc. And we'll never receive the recognition that we deserve. In order to proove that we are indeed a subculture we need to show a sense of solidarity, and to separate ourselves from other styles in a recognizable way. Only after we have done that can we afford to play around with our own styles. We have to create it first.

>>8385568
>One of the biggest problems is language. I can't count the number of times I have seen people refer to anything lolita as "gothic lolita" or "egl" when there is nothing remotely gothic or Mana about the outfit. In any established subculture the people will have some sort of jargon (special vocabulary), literature, dress, or shared knowlege that brings them together and makes them "them." When people don't even know what the basic terms for their subculture are it's pretty strange to expect outsiders to know and recognize them too. And even if you don't want a lolita subculture, it still holds I think.

>We will never be Japanese lolita. We do not have access to the clothing and we have not gone through the things a normal Japanese goes through on an everyday basis. But after having seen so much of Japanese lolita culture, I have realized I don't want us to be like them. I use to be ashamed of being American, but recently I've been losing that. As meaningless as it is coming from me, I'm proud of American lolitas (and lolitas from other countries as well). But in order to make sure we have a place in society, we are going to need some kind of restrictions and uniformity, or no one will recognize us for who we are.

lerman.biz/asagao/gothic_lolita/diary/jargon.html

>>8385574
>>8385568
thanks for the link anon, i found this fascinating

>>8385574
>I can't count the number of times I have seen people refer to anything lolita as "gothic lolita" or "egl" when there is nothing remotely gothic or Mana about the outfit.

The fashion has definitely evolved since then to include the other substyles. Now, gothic lolita is used to describe coords with darker motifs. Other than that, this blog post is pretty much spot on.

And Romeo's stuff reads as pretty oldschool to me. I've always wondered why I never see anyone wearing this brand. Apparently the quality is above Bodyline-tier and it's affordable? I might get pic related next paycheck

>>8385628

This is a difficult brand name to google (I just get a lot of Shakespeare costumes), what's their site link?

>>8385278
as a man, this doesn't bother me

>>8384694
Wtf is Shirt lolita?

>>8385684
It kept auto correcting "shiro" to "shirt."

>>8385643
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/auc-andromeo/

>>8381169
Holy hell that's me from like 10 years ago. I was just thinking it was unlikely any photo of mine would be posted to this thread because I've always done handmade.

Actually I think younger lolita's might not realize how big handmade was in the early years of lolita fashion outside of japan. I really wish I had saved more of the handmade stuff from back then.

That being said, what I did save was lots of stock photos from the brands and I've wondered if it would interest anyone to make them available?

I just don't know of any website that would allow me to upload them and make them available. It's nearly 900 mb and I don't want to spend forever uploading them one by one. Is the doable? I've got stuff from 2000 onwards.

>>8385734
You could try a public Dropbox folder maybe?

>>8385574
I remember that site!I used to read it a lot few years ago when i wasn't even wearing lolita. I went here to find translations of Kaya and Schwarz Stein songs but the lolita insights were pretty interesting. Wish someone nowadays would do such awesome lolita blogs that aren't only "my latest haul/outfit" and my wardrobe. More lifestyle stuff, please.

>>8385734
homygod please share if you can! I'm pretty sure Photobucket allow multiple uploads at a time.

>>8385583
You missed the point entirely

>>8385734
Yes please!!! I lost all of my old stock pictures when my old netbook died

>>8385734
If you upload, you should send a link to Lolibrary! They do their best, but their catalog of anything older than ~2008 is a bit iffy. I think some old stock photos would help the database immensely. Hell I'd try and get entries made.

Also, I remember how big handmade was! Discovered the fashion in like '06-ish, and it really inspired me to learn how to sew. I never had design skills though, so I never really made much for lolita. I remember trying to make a dress out of one of the English GLBs and failing amazingly ahaha.

Can I request more oldschool country? I need inspo!

>>8385772
>>8385785
>>8385788
Okay working on it. It'll take some time to get it all up. I might be done sometime tomorrow.

>>8385959
Here's an OP from 2003, not sure if it's baby, AP, or Meta.

>>8385970
Here is another, looking at these I think they are both early AP

>>8385972
Early Meta, I think this qualifies as country?

>>8385974
AP outfit from 2005. I think this was from a fashion show and was extra embellished for it. This is the beginning of prints becoming popular

>>8385979
This is sort of the quintessential old school lolita country photo. From a gothic and lolita bible, not sure which one though.

Really looking through my folders alot of the older sweet lolita stuff could be easily worn as country just by adding accessories (straw hat, bag, berry and daisy accessories). Alot of solid colors with pintuck/lace/ruffle details, pinafore like styles, gingham, florals, ect.

>>8381012
Just started watching it finally. I'm about 5 minutes in.

I am disappointed in the "origins" of the fashion, but I'm not surprised as many lolitas themselves don't even know how the style came about and how it evolved.

That said, I am impressed at how professional and mostly-accurate it is. I don't think outside people ever get "Lolita" right, so it's a nice change.

>>8386126
Yeah in my experience the Rococo influence didn't come about until 2006 about when the Marie Antoinette movie came out. Before then Victorian children's fashions were most often cited as the main influence. And before that when gothic lolita was the dominate type visual-kei was considered the driving influence.

Really I think the roots of lolita have alot more to do with Alice in wonderland, little house on the prairie, Anne of green gables, and the prairie revival in the 70's.

>>8385970
Looks like AP.

>>8381086

The earlier generation had a little bit more of an air of escapism to them, something like they dressed up like dolls to escape the pressure of conformity of everyday life or something. A bit like goths being gothic, which is what the gothic lolitas were anyway. You can see it in some of it in the earlier GLBs with references to maidens and mirrors, plus sometimes some of the earlier GLB articles were a lot more "lifestyle loli". There were also close ties with the V-Kei scene (also an element of fantasy/escapism).

Here in the West the idea of lifestyle lolita has been a bit tarnished because we had a rash of girls try to join egl, citing hobbies like baking and sewing as reasons for being "lolita at heart" despite not owning a single stitch of anything loliable. There were also girls trying to lolify really random things, the one that sticks in my mind is the grown woman who went to the gym in her lolita bloomers and then bitched that people were looking at her funny while she was working out in lacy bloomers.

At the same time, it seems like Vkei was becoming a little less popular, at least on the western side. So the focus slowly became more and more about the clothes alone.

Not that I mind, I'm in it solely for pretty clothes and tea parties, so I might be a bit shallow.

Sage for replying to a really old comment. Don't mind me, carry on, thread.

>>8386154
People just say it because of Kamikaze Girls.

>>8381222
Does anyone know if this dress has a name?
I might have it, but I couldn't find it on Hellolace or Lolibrary... it's velveteen, the back is really pretty with ruffles and a scallopped hem

>>8389414
I don't think most of these older/plain velveteen pieces have actual names. I can tell you that based on looks alone, I'm pretty confident it's a btssb dress

>>8385628
I bought one and the fabric is pretty stiff tbh

>>8389442
Actually it's Angelic Pretty.
Ah, I was afraid of that. I was hoping to find out when it was released, or at least find a stock photo.

>>8385628
Aside from the quality it might just be a case where noone knows about them. They just don't have the advantage of word of mouth (plus english website) like Bodyline has.

>>8381250
Is Meta the queen of sailor or is that just me?

>>8386154
I only discovered lolita around that time like many lolitas, but the influence is definitely there (especially in substyles like hime) I see the influence from portraits of Madame de Pompodour and the influence those painting/dress styles had on what we see in British works by Gainsborough. Just as Rococo trickled into Victorian England, bell sleeves capelets, huge satiny bows and elaborate headdresses seeped into largely victorian/colonial fashion inspired lolita.

I've got to say I came for the victorian besmocked dolly stuff before everyone suddly had to turn into a French princess

>>8389487
Yes, Meta is definitely the undisputed best in Sailor. Love their sailor stuff.

>>8384944
Oh, thanks, anon! I'd prefer non-velveteen, but that price ain't bad at all, and the headdress is cute. I unfortunately won't have the money until Friday, and it looks like it's ending soon. I'll start looking once I get paid.

Pic unrelated

Anyone have some more handmade old-school?

Did yall say old school?
Baby Skirt and Cape Set 6000Y
>http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/197419431
AP Gingham Strawberry & Cherry Skirt ~6000Y
>http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t413635971
Meta Cherry Wedges 1500Y
>http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h198986706
Meta Brown Floral Pinafore JSK 5900Y
>http://page21.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/j340197347?u=%3Bgbu_20001006
BTSSB Trump Regimental OP (2007)7900Y
>http://www.mbok.jp/item/item_466407581.html?_RC_SRC=PI%2C1
BTSSB Slow Motion Bouquet JSK (2007 version) 4000Y
>http://www.mbok.jp/item/item_466407581.html?_RC_SRC=PI%2C1

>>8390125
AP Black X White Long Sleeve OP with rectangular headdress and pannier 10000Y
http://www.mbok.jp/item/item_469235204.html?_RC_SRC=PI,1
Metamo race off-white OP
http://www.mbok.jp/item/item_453317956.html?_RC_SRC=PI,1

>>8390154
Baby Embroidered Name Skirt 2800Y
> http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m132310156
Metamo Old-Label Sailor JSK Navy 3000Y
> http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d149864910
Metamo Old-Label Sailor JSK Pink 3000Y
>http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r128661994
Metamo Orange Grove SK 3000Y
>http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w110913170
IW Tartan Skirt & Vest Set 3000Y
>http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m134712912
BTSSB Old School Bingo JSK (Lace, Floral, A-Line) 3800Y
>http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f148961796
Meta Alphabet Cookie Bustle Skirt 4800Y
>http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r128752587

>>8388776
This this this many times. I don't really like when some lolitas shoehorn hobbies like baking and sewing or "very common feminine hobbies" as lolita hobbies , if you want engage to them but not say having only these as hobbies, not owing any lolita piece would make you a lifestyler. For me lolita lifestyler would be more than a girl into baking, sewing, etiquette and other traditional feminine hobbies (that some are outdated), she would invest into finding music that reflect her style (visual kei or classic for example but most don't listen to it and it's ok), appropriate art, literature, cute/classy or spooky decor, feeling like different from the mainstream girl and trying to rebel into typical femimine stereotypes, because well the fashion was born with that intention... to escape the reality of gender conformity and expectations like marriage or living into the expectations of men. It had a feminist flair that now got very pretentious like SJWs or most they ignore the fact the fashion was born with some rebellion fuck the society intent and not just wearing frilly clothing. Lolita for me is more than just wear it, but i don't see many lolitas around that do that "old school-y" lifestyle feel, idk how to explain. I see nowadays lolita become a only aestetical fashion not a subculture anymore.
>ne that sticks in my mind is the grown woman who went to the gym in her lolita bloomers
kek
At least she would have bought a pink and cute gym outfit. Lolita lifestyler doesn't mean wearing the fashion even in places where it's impossible to like gyms, some work places and anything that would ruin or dirt your items.

>>8392057
Ugh I loved these photo-shoots. Can't remember if they were IW or VM or both but I loved them so much. I'd frame the pictures and put them around my room if I could.

>>8392483
Oops, forgot the picture.
Anyway, they were VM.

>>8392483
I think you _should_ frame them and hang them!

>>8392057
I'm seriously annoyed by the lack of blouse. Doesn't even look good in old school.

>>8392534
I don't mind the lack of a blouse with Lolita. It gives a more casual look and perfect for when it's hot outside. Sometimes I feel like the only one though.

I do love the look of a JSK with a blouse though. That to me will always be the "perfect Lolita" for me.

>>8384787
I do like oldschool, but I try to add to my pseudo-oldschool coords a more modern touch, such as OTKs and better makeup. For me it is about having the oldschool dress that I like, and making it look elegant. I like to feel "Elegant gothic lolita".

>>8392534
>>8392548
I think it looks ugly because of the tiny, plain straps. If the straps were thicker and there was less of a contrast between the fancy dress and bra strap tier straps I'd be okay.

>>8385734
It's so wonderful to see you show up here, I always loved your posts to egl and daily_lolita, they were always inspirational.

Thank you so much for continuing to share the lolita fashion love. I too would love to see your images collection, especially as despite the vastness of the internet, some of them are becoming increasingly difficult to track down.

>>8384725
I sent a join request!

>>8385734
Adding my voice asking you to share the photos!

>>8392627
aww thank you. I still post on CoF occasionally and on tumblr. I am working on uploading the images, it's just taking longer then I thought.

>>8392861
Still working on it, I'll post a link when I'm done.

Here is some 2003 meta doing the sash thing years before it became popular

>>8385772
>>8385785
>>8385788
>>8392861
Okay it took a few days but here is is:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xqx0b58yvczr9hs/AAB3qwxahZ-ua7JCl5uXCWbYa?dl=0

It's not terribly well organized. I tried to add brand folders to the different sections but never got that far.

I tried my best to remove the few western goth/rockabilly/ect photos that worked their way in, if I missed any sorry.

I included some otome and natural-kei stuff and tomorrow I plan on adding some glb scans I have.

>>8394567
oh wow, thank you so much!! it's really well organised already for what it is, thanks again!

Requesting extremely old school pieces where the skirts didn't flare out very much.
I know these exist.

>>8395104
If you check any of the older street snaps anon there are plenty of examples. I've noticed though, even today you see lolitas out shopping in Japan that opt for minimal petticoat poof or go for low-flare cuts out of sheer practicality - I don't think they're considered any 'less lolita' for doing so either. I don't mean to suggest that Japanese lolitas are the only authentic lolitas or anything, but they seem a lot less preoccupied by what is and what isn't, they just_are.

The fyeahlolita blog also has an excellent article called 'Very Old School Lolita: The fashion in the 90's, 80's, and 70's' with several example images if you've not already seen it.

>>8385628
Some of their dresses are absolutely beautiful, wow. I must admit I'd never even heard of this brand before. If you ignore the awkward looking centre bows, pic related are seriously gorgeous.

>>8394567
you are amazing, it's people like you that make this place a pleasure to visit.

>>8381133
Holy shit what dress is that on the left?

>>8385628
Their stuff gets a lot of eBay replicas, see attached (its their own, but I've seen a million replicas of it)

>>8395162
I actually had this one. It's even prettier in person.

>>8395104
>>8395160
Still looks stupid pretty often though.

>>8385628
I knew about them and I just thought the quality wasn't worth the price when you account for the fact that, unlike Bodyline, they don't have free shipping.

>>8395587
http://lolibrary.org/apparel/cinderella-op-2005

BtSSB Cinderella OP from 2005

>>8397411
I think it's just an exposure/perception thing though that influences opinions on this. Earlier on, brands actually released (and still do occasionally) items with cuts designed for minimal poof, and lolitas were used to seeing them and so they became just part of the vast umbrella of lolita fashion. More recently however (say within the last seven years or so) having the 'foof factor' is considered by many lolitas (especially those outside Japan) as an important and for some people, vital component of the lolita aesthetic.

Personally I love both very full and minimal poof skirts, for me it all depends on the attention to the outfit as a whole, as well as the occasion it's intended for. I love to see lolitas just chillin' and going about their day to day business without obvious fluffy petticoats.

>>8397559
I also love very minimal poof and giant poof, it all depends on the outfit and I think both look good. It just depends on your personal preference and the style of the dress.

For me, I have thin hair and don't wear wigs, so it actually looks best for me to wear minimal levels of poof. A lot of people complain that you need to wear a wig because Lolita skirts are so huge so it looks unbalanced not to, but by toning the poof down it balances out with my naturally thin hair just fine.

>>8395104
>>8395160
idk i think that most of the time when you see minimal poof, at least in street snaps, it's because the girls are in Harajuku, and if you've ever been shopping really anywhere in Japan, the stores are tiny and it's just not pleasant if you have any kind of poof at all.

captcha, a cat is not food.

Not much poof on this one.

On an unrelated note, anybody know some good shops that sell old school headdresses and bonnets?

bumping with some IW

>>8397942

>>8397944

>>8397948

>>8397952

>>8397954

>>8397956

>>8397957

>>8397960

>>8397963

>>8397964

>>8397968

>>8397971

>>8397972

>>8397975

>>8397977

>>8397984

>>8397987

I love going through the old Daily Lolita LJ and finding pic of my faves from back in the day. Victoria (Swdpunk) was one of my idols.

>>8384787
Even as an older lolita, I know what you mean - as much as it was endearing, a lot of the elements are unflattering, but keep in mind that much of it has to do with the mainstream street styles and other influences of the time (and I don't necessarily mean Tokyo tribal youth group fashion). It was normal to find platformed shoes and other pieces like that in street fashion boutiques, and the makeup and hair trends of the time usually came off as harsh. Additionally, this was when lolita brands were gaining prominence and both fans and brands were still shaping the style like we do today.

One thing I liked about "old school" looks was how people were trying to come up with princess or dolly looks, and because graphic design programming was pretty rudimentary then, there was a focus on design over prints, but they were still pretty simple and tended to be patterns.

>>8393018
ew. Is it weird that this makes me think of a terno dress?

Can anyone identify pic related? I found it listed on a Japanese website (right pic) as '2002-3年の冬物' (winter 2002-3) but it's the only example I could find.

I think it may also be in the lolibrary but several similar sounding one pieces are listed there with different dates and no pictures.

Can anyone identify the Metamorphose op in pic related? I found it listed on a Japanese website (right pic) as '2002-3年の冬物' (winter 2002-3) but it's the only example I could find.

I think it may also be in the lolibrary but several similar sounding one pieces are listed there with different dates and no pictures.

>>8398611
I have this in all black and I love it, but I can't find a name for it either. Sorry/sage for not-very-relevant selfpost, but I thought that maybe a clearer pic of the dress might help you find it??

>>8399908
I like the shoes, but how long does it take you to buckle all those things?

>>8383449 here. If this transaction goes well, I should soon have the dress in black and white! Very excited. I think I'll need to buy a new petticoat for it, because all I have is a fluffy CP bell-shaped petti. But who cares, I love this thing! It's just so cute and nostalgic.

>>8399993
Well, this one looks like a bell-shape, now that I look at it. Maybe it can take both after all? Guess I'll just have to try it out.

>>8399993
I only buckle/unbuckle the top 5 straps or so, and just slip my foot under the straps near the toes. I have really skinny feet for whatever reason. Plus they're snap-ons (pic related), so I'm not manually running each strap through the buckle every time. Pretty sure all/most an*tai*na and bodyline shoes are like that.
>takes me longer to put on my wig tbh

>>8399908
Ah thank you anon! I love how you coordinated it, I especially like the lace tights choice. It's actually me in the left pic, I was just really trying to track down the name and release date for my own reference. I know it sounds silly but owning a relatively early dress in the scheme of lolita fashion history kinda makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I'm glad you posted, I've never seen the black version before. I also like how you ruched up the sleeves a little, I'll have to try wearing it this way too.

>>8400193
Aaaaah thank you!! I...I know tfw Wearing Tru Old School Dress©, it's definitely silly but the warm fuzzies are real.

The sleeves will probably look better on you like that since your arms aren't the size of legs. I think that's the whole reason mine look "ruched" at all tbh.
>I'm losing weight I swear

Pic related is the closest I could find to this dress on lolibrary, it's definitely not the right one though unfortunately: http://lolibrary.org/apparel/high-waist-shirring-op-plain

>>8399993
>>8400193
FRIEND, COME BACK! I found it!
http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k186605376

>>8400334
Already buying it from someone! About the same price, too. And I think that person with the auction only ships to Japan? Or does HakoBOON ship overseas? Never used a Japanese shopping service, but maybe I'll try it when I'm looking for the red and white colorway in a few weeks.
>gazes wistfully at dress
>you too will soon be mine


>would feel too rude backing out of transaction now anyway

>>8400552
More of this dress, in redxred this time.

Some plaid

Looks like an early print. Not a fan of the black shoes with that coord, but whatever.

Red Riding Hood inspired dress

>>8401958
I still have to buy the book this scan is from. It was and still is such a huge inspiration to me.

The print is AP's Pastel a la Mode from 2006. It was a big deal at the time! Does anyone know how much it goes for nowadays?

Does anyone have a clue when Angelic Pretty stopped using the old logo as labels on their clothes?

Recently just acquired an old school dress and wondering how old it is roughly.

>>8395162
I always remembered this brand as borderline replicas of AP and Baby ruffle monster dresses, hence why it gets lots of ebay replicas.

Pic related is Angelic Princess, chose red for easier comparison to top left
(Not trying to stir things up, just surprised at others' perception of this store)

>>8402005
Dropped pic

>>8402014
It doesn’t look enough like a replica to make me feel guilty, thankfully.

>>8398611
Found a similar dress. Maybe they are part of the same series?
http://web.archive.org/web/20010913044353/http://www2.odn.ne.jp/~cbm60930/coordinate/coord-020.htm

>>8397960
HOLD THE MOTHERFUCKING PHONE

Is that an old-old Frederick bag???

>>8399993
Man, this is adorable. I have a few empire waist dresses and even though my body type is similar to Midori's, I feel like I can't seem to pull this cut. Maybe I should try wearing these lower or with a different petticoat? idk. Any tips?

>>8394567
You are doing the lolita gods' work. Thank you!

>>8404974
For this particular dress, I've read advice saying that a medium to low poof A-line would be best for achieving the look in the stock photos like >>8400552 . So that's one alternative silhouette you could try.

Pic related is petticoat I'm considering, because I prefer the look of the A-line for this.

It might help people give you advice if you were able to tell exactly what looks wrong when you wear cuts like this.

>>8405378
also, have some GLB scans.

>>8405384

>>8405389
...And it seems the image limit has been reached. Oops. New thread?

Oh man, the old school strawberry items. I wish I had some of those OPs

>>8401958
>not recognising Pastel a large Mode

Does anyone know the name of the dress+ capelet in the op image middle bottom? It looks like BTSSB to me. Thanks anon.

>>8404954
Ah thank you anon, it does look very similar. I wonder what the crap a 'Furano(??) jumper skirt' is though(?).

>>8381012
I discovered lolita back in 2007 but only started to wear it in 2009. I was obssessed with historical clothing and punk culture, so finding something that fitted both was like a dream to me. Back in the day, the community was small, I was so young and everything was really different. I remember struggling with english trying to get a grasp of lolitafashion.org, badly translating Malice Mizer songs and trying really hard to be a "pure maiden". It saddens me that people consider lolita as "just a fashion", it's so much more.
I do love how creative and artistic neo-lolita can be though, but I feel more comfortable in subdued, imperfect outfits.

>>8397411
you couldn't actually get a petti under those black and white dresses, they just aren't cut for it.