/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

Anything you wear that makes you stand out will get people to notice you, and the more people notice you the more they will react to you.

Just like the anon above me said, it really doesn't matter what you wear out in public if it stands out people will notice you and a lot of them will comment on it.
it comes with wearing any alternative fashion.

Anon above me is right, it doesn't matter what you wear. Some people are just fucking thirsty weirdos.

>>8250071
That is the most corny sign I have ever seen...

I wore lolita for years, it was fine in better suburbs/the inner city, but when I moved to an area (for uni) with a lot of public housing, I found myself getting hit on my creepy old pedo-y men who had a different idea of what lolita fashion was and why I might be wearing it. I was fine with comments, discussing what I choose to wear(especially with older women <3nannas), but this got ridiculous, and after some minor stalking, I stopped wearing it, which really sucks.

It's almost the opposite for me. I get attention when I'm in my "lazy day" clothes or clothes I threw on in a hurry. I usually feel very ugly in those type of clothes and don't want attention. Most of the time in lolita, people leave me alone. Sometimes thirsty people just see girl and that's all they need to make a move.

I've never had a bad reaction, I always get at least 1+ compliment while I'm out. I've never had a guy hit on me in it, one has complimented the dress and just went about on his way.

Granted I dress toned down Gothic and classic.

>>8250071
>three obese neckbeard bronies
if I where a girl I'd be pepper spraying the shit out of these people.

>>8250095
Im not r9k but the wording makes it sound more like a tease than being assertive.

>>8250111
Pretty much.
Though I have this conviction that truly assertive people who give a shit about their personal space actually enforce it, and don't spend time standing around with dumb signs which probably won't reach the types of autists who no doubt wouldn't change their minds about their behaviors anyway.

>>8250132
The type of autists who do the perving are of the "don't dress like you are asking for it" breed. They find those signs hilarious and compare them to "don't rob me because I am wearing a 1% costume".
Its pretty fucking stupid.

>>8250141
dropped pic

>>8250102
Yep, this is exactly. I've been hit on/creeped on out in public in both regular and lolita; while there's all sorts of contributing factors as to how likely this will happen to you (neighborhood, style of lolita, time of day, general culture of everyone in the area, and just the 'luck' of the draw of who happens to be around you at any given moment) at the end of the day....all it takes is for someone to see a "pretty girl".

On that note, if this is something that makes you uncomfortable, perhaps take into account when and where you will be wearing lolita, and the varying possibilities within those situations. At conventions there's all sorts of people so honestly you can either get creepy neckbeards, chill guys and girls, and people who don't spare you a second glance. Late at night on public transport, some people might think you're some weird hooker. In the middle of the day in a busy area of a city some people might think you're a lost tourist or something.

Anyways,
>I'm in not mood for getting into a relationship

I always ??? at people who hit on women when they're walking down the street. Like, I'm sure most of them just want a quickie with some random ~slut~ off the street, but some of them literally want to go out on a date with you. When has yelling "Hey sexy!" or "You're looking fine today!" (+ all the other more or less vulgar varieties) at some random-ass chick on the street ever gotten someone into a relationship???? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "Yeah, we met when he yelled at me on the street as I walked by to run some errands. It really turned me on." like ??? (again, I understand most of these people are prob just hoping to get their dick wet for a sec)

>>8250100
Alternative fashions will always gather perceptions by normies that it must have something to do with sex (equating goths with BDSM enthusiasts, equating lolitas with sugar babies, etc. etc.).

Usually the people who make these assumptions are also the same people who will be butthurt when you rebuke their advances and explain to them like an adult that their assumptions are wrong.

FYI, depending on your state's laws, you can buy pepper spray via Amazon.

Protect yourselves. Your attempts to educate these people are futile. They are obsessed with own sexual activity (or more accurately, the lack thereof), and are the type to lash out, and will accuse you of being a tease because of the clothing you wear. It never occurs to them that their logic is not that far off from the men in 3rd-world countries who think that it's perfectly okay to rape a woman just because she is walking outside. A woman dares show herself in public? She must be seeking sexual contact!

Yes, /r2k/ trolls, come to this containment thread, feed upon your anger and frustration

Someone finds you attractive, HEAVENS, better fucking use 4chan to blog about it!
Some girls wear Lolita for the attention they get, are you honestly surprised by it?
It's fucking inane they way some people really believe their actions are exempt from consequences.
You are what is wrong with the world.

why is this board so easy to bait

>>8250165
hey, if someone finds me pretty by all means i have no problem with someone telling me!
there's a difference between coming up to me and telling me that in a friendly way though, and shouting something weird from across the street.
either way though compliments are also different from being hit on. telling me you think i look nice/pretty while i'm out shopping is different from trying to hit on me while i'm clearly not interested/have told you i'm not interested. i don't really understand randomly hitting on strangers anyway.

>>8250176
This is nothing new. Why not take it to the creepy thread where it fits? Nothing posted here deserves it's own thread.
Please stop attention whoring and get your back pats someplace else.

>>8250071
0/10 vendetta. The girl in the photo even posted something along the lines of "can't wait to see myself on cgl later lol"
At lease try to be a little creative.

>>8250071
QQ desperate men hit on me because I'm different
> Stop looking at my ageplay costume silly boys
> I don't dress like this for attention
> Can't you see I want to be left alone and not even looked at in my super stand out ageplay costume

>>8250187
>stop attention whoring
>on an anonymous image board

u wot m8? You act like she started the thread. You need to direct that at OP.

Needless to say, thread turned to shit just as quickly as I thought it would. Don't fall for the easy bait, gulls.

>>8250204
this is'nt high school no more people should spaz out over a poofy dress or weird clothes like they never seen it before.

People would probably have hit on you regardless as to what you were wearing.

>Getting shitty because you think that someone might be judging you based on your appearance.
>"Three obese neckbeard bronies."

Unless they're blatantly fetishizing you and being rude (In ANY social context, not your 'stare-rape' bullshit) there is absolutely no need to be offended by someone finding you attractive.


>General 'Lolita in Public' thread time?

Out of the hundreds of wonderful, complimentary comments I've had from men and women alike, the only handful of times that I've been insulted/called trashy/called a slut (or a prude, more often) is by girls at local metal gigs - Usually the ones who are trying really hard to fuck my male friends, who don't care one or way or another how I dress.

>>8250256
>staring isn't rude
ok m8

>>8250071
Typographer here. her use of shitty cursive pisses me off because she was probably trying to go for sarcastic but ends up looking playful and childish.

More than anything I was to go up to her and ask. "Is this really a problem for you?" Like have guys, on multiple occasions come up to her an asked if she's supposed to Barbie and they should go party?

As extreme as it might sound, I think it is a wise idea for females to carry a handgun. It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Obviously you can't just pull it on a greasy neck beard for hitting on you, but if some one tried to mug, attack, or even rape you it would come in handy.

>>8250071

If they are being inappropriate, stalkerish, or offensive that's one thing. However, I don't see anything wrong in asking a girl out as long as you stop if they express that it is unwelcome. Frankly, we can't read your mind and know you aren't interested or see into the past and know how many times you've been asked. As long as people behave in a reasonable manner you just need to accept it as par for the course.

>>8250269
I carry pepper spray on me all the time now because where I live, there's a lot of crime going on. Not to mention there's a lot of creepers here as well that make me super uncomfortable.

Always try go out with a friend or two if you can, too.

>>8250265
Looking at someone is about the least harmful thing you could do to them.

>>8250150
Are there genuinely people who think you're "asking for it" if you're wearing revealing clothing? It's like saying you're asking to get burgled because you live in a nice house.

>>8250464
Yes. There are actually a lot of people, both male and female, that feel this way. They tend to ignore the research that says that rape is about control and you're more likely to get raped by somebody you know (true for male and female rapes) than some stranger that thinks you look like an easy lay.

>>8250470
>>8250464
unless the people are old republican men from the south no. most people who others claim are saying people are 'asking for it' are actually telling girls to be careful while out at night while drunk while wearing revealing clothing. that's atleast more akin to saying you're asking to get robbed by having $100 bills sticking out of your pockets.

also no, rape is not about control for the most part, it's very small cases that are actually about control, most of it is lust and that goes double for people who you know doing it.

>>8250265
>thinking staring is weird.
You don't leave the house without mommy do you?

>>8250477
I'm not saying that rapes don't have a sexual component to them because all rapes do (otherwise they'd just be an ass beating, or mugging, or whatever), but sex usually isn't the primary cause and is usually second to anger or the need to dominate another person. I can't find any reliable sources online, but I do have some reading to recommend on the subject, Men Who Rape (http://www.amazon.com/Men-Who-Rape-Psychology-Offender/dp/0738206245)) and Rape: Power, Anger, and Sexuality. There's all this, which is kind of long, but it's interesting. At one point it states that the most common type of rapist is in fact the power-reassurance type. http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Behavioural_Characteristics_of_Rapists.pdf

>>8250477
Honestly don't think this shit needs to be discussed now but one should definitely keep in mind that if a close friend rapes you it's not because of how sexy you were dressed that day but deeper issues. If some guy rapes and kills you in a park it's probably not because he got spontaneously turned on by your short skirt but because he was already set on it and you looked like the weakest victim or where the first one around. However there's also a lot of uncomfortable to dangerous situations you can get in if you're alone around drunk people and draw attention to yourself with skimpy clothing.

>>8250572
>>8250557
both of you are acting as if the rapist in the park who's going to kill you is the primary offender, that book does as well. most people rape due to lusting over the person, not because of skimpy outfits no, and maybe not an extremely sexual lust either, but most of it is due to obsessive behaviors and intense desire. the only way that power would be the primary cause is when taking prison rape into consideration, which a lot of statistics do as a scare tactic.

>>8250157
I don't even think most of those guys expect sex, they just want a woman to pay attention to them for a few seconds. I often get hooted at by construction workers up on a building or guys driving by in cars. There's no way I could really contact with them even if I wanted to.
Also case in point: those guys who will yell "hey pretty lady" and then angrily call you a slut when you don't react. My rather assertive friend went up to a group of these guys once after they whistled at her just to ask what their deal was and they were shitting their pants and telling her she was "overreacting". They want a reaction, but only from a distance.

Anyway people actually tend to be more polite to me when I'm wearing lolita. Aside from the one time some guy kept beeping at me from his truck I haven't been catcalled or hit on. It's actually the few times I wore jeans + hoodie that guys in my neighbourhood called me a whore. Men are fucking weird.

>>8250599
>contact with them
Yes I very English today much good.

>>8250599
Slut and whore mean the same as bitch or cunt in most of these cases(and usually mean prude and frigid rather than their literally meanings) I'm just seriously sick of people assuming that these words are meant literally. No, men don't think you're a slut when you're not slutty to them, they think you're a frigid bitch and they wish you were a slut, nor do they actually think you're a whore for wearing jeans, they're just mad you're not slutting it up.

>>8250242
But they do anyone who wears alt fashion knows that and come to terms with it or wimps out back to normal fag fashion. That highschool style judgement never dies because stupid people like op never grow the fuck up and only worry about themselves.

>>8250599
They mainly do it because it makes them look all alpha to their friends.

>>8250605
I know, but I figured those guys calling my jeans'd self a whore might mean it literally because it's a neighbourhood with a large Muslim population, and maybe they think that all (white) women not dressed conservatively by their standards are hypersexual in some way. Generally though I realize slut/whore are just the go-to insult when trying to hurt a woman. Afaik there was even some study about how sorority girls use the word slut and it turns out they most often use it for women who don't meet their social standards, regardless of sexual activity.

>>8250597
>three different sources, one which obviously cites multiple different studies gotten in different ways
>specifically says most rapes are done by acquaintances in most sources
But yeah, of course I actually cite some sources and they're still ignored. A couple of the studies mentioned in my last link do focus on acquaintance rape. For example, Koss 1988 (which says about 80% of rapes are done by people that know the victim), and those still say that the rapists committing acquaintance rape still fall under the same profiling/psychological categories as stranger rapes.
> In spite of these different crime characteristics, virtually no differences were found among any of the groups in their levels of psychological symptoms. A significant feature of these data is that they have tapped the experiences of unreported and unacknowledged rape victims, a group that is potentially much larger than the group of identified victims.

>>8250288
Protip: striking up a conversation as opposed to straight up hitting on/asking for a date makes girls think a lot more highly of you. It decreases the chance of turning you down from 100% to 95%.

>>8250621
Tbh I've had it up to here with conservative Muslims. Why can't they all be like the Somalis who behave like normal-ass people (in most cases) and talk to you like a normal human being? I've legitimately had trouble being in a group with one of my classmates because he's a conservative paki who wouldn't even talk to me directly or look me in the eye at all. You come to my country, you behave in a civilised manner towards everyone instead of acting like women are the scourge of god's green earth.

>>8250477
>most people who others claim are saying people are 'asking for it' are actually telling girls to be careful while out at night while drunk while wearing revealing clothing.

Then why don't they say "I'm concerned about your well-being because others can't control themselves, here's a list of self-defense strategies and what to avoid in public," instead of "don't wear that short skirt"?

If this was about their good will and good intentions then they wouldn't be implying shame towards people who are "stupid" or "naive" for dressing below their moral approval in public and enduring harassment as the consequence.
This is actually about a group of assholes painting themselves as superior, both morally and intellectually, as they write off people who get assaulted or raped because "Well it wouldn't happen to us because we dress like x and don't dress like y." As >>8250470 said, rape has proven to be mostly about control, and women are more likely to be raped by people who are familiar with them as opposed to strangers who think they're sexy at a bar.

Signs like >>8250071 are still vapid and pointless, however.

>>8251547
Self Defense strategy: You have a brain in that skull. Use it. Don't get plastered drunk in a skimpy costume and then go wandering around the rougher neighbourhoods of town at three in the morning alone when there's nobody around.

It never astounds me that it is now somehow offensive for me as an adult woman to tell this to another goddamn functioning adult woman. You never, ever deserve to be raped, but at least there are some things you can do to try and keep yourself safe. You can't control other people, you can at least try to make safe choices.

>>8251547
also lol equating catcalls to rape. I do not get Americans I really don't.

>>8251744
This. Going by that logic every woman in Italy's been raped at least twice by now.

>>8251547
You completely missed the point. She's saying that tumblrtards and shit are taking stuff out of context.

>>8251744
White American girls of the tumblr variety want to be more oppressed than they actually are.

>>8251755
>Italy
>Twice

Try 20.

>>8251807
Yeah we've been told all our goddamn life how everyone's a special snowflake. I wish I could have grown up in a Japanese or Scandanavian culture where the focus is on the community not the individual. It's led to everyone trying to find easy ways to be more special than they actually are and ridiculous amounts of entitlement.

>>8251755
Weird thing is that it's not so frowned upon there. It's brushed off like it's no big deal, which it isn't.

>>8251738
>implying you have to be wandering around a 'rough part of town at three in the morning' for somebody to take advantage of you.

Because drunk girls are never molested or raped by guys at the party, or the bar, or in the parking lot, or taxi drivers, or cops. Only shady, obviously dangerous people that hang out in dark alleys will ever target a vulnerable woman.

And for that matter, it's common knowledge that women are only raped when they're drunk.

But seriously. I'm in agreement that every person should take precautions to stay safe in social situations, especially anybody that presents themselves as a woman. It's just a sad fact of life that men are inherently shit, and you need to exercise utmost caution around them at all times. :^)

>>8250204
> lolita
> ageplay costume

0/10 try again anon.

>>8251848
No anon, everyone is shit. Every person on this earth is shit. Our culture is stupid and shit, life is shit. You and me, all shit.

>>8251855
Shut up Stan.

>>8251523

95%? If those are your numbers you're doing something wrong.

Maybe we're coming from different places but hitting on a girl is almost always about conversation. The topic doesn't really matter, the point of it to engage with her and express your interest. Most of the communication takes place at a non-verbal or non-explicit level. Unless the girl is oblivious everyone involved knows that the conversation itself is just a flimsy pretext.

But the method is irrelevant. Unless I'm misinterpreting her post OP seems to be upset about being approached at all. In which case even trying to strike up a conversation at all is going to catch a cold shoulder.

I've never been hit on in gross ways while wearing lolita. I actually have never received any negative response to it, but I also don't wear it very regularly.

>>8251855
I like you

>>8251744
>also lol equating catcalls to rape
I'm trying to look for "catcalls" mentioned in that post and I don't see it. Maybe you should absorb the content instead of looking for strawmen to knock down.

>>8251848

It's more like not every man is shit; any person could potentially be shit that you don't know about yet.

When I was in high school and was hanging out with my friends and their friends I was careful not to take any of the girls home alone. I would always take other people home too and drop the girls off first to avoid any potential accusations later.

>>8251839
Eh, grass is always greener on the other side. I'm Japanese and spent the first 18 years of my life there. While there's a lot of great things that come out of the way our culture is as far as community vs individual, there's a lot of downside as well that really makes it no better than America's "special snowflake" culture, it's just different. In our culture, you're expected to sacrifice so much of yourself for the sake of honoring your family and community, that it honestly gets pretty insane. For example, in America, let's say you want to marry someone, but your parents are adamantly against it for absolutely no good reason and refuse to talk to you over it. Most people would think of those parents as being extremely controlling and fucked up, they would feel bad for you and hope that you don't let your awful parents dictate your life like that. In Japan? Most people would think of you as dishonoring your family and feel bad for your parents for having such a terrible child who refuses to obey their every wish. Our culture believes VERY firmly that children should blindly listen to their parents regardless of age and situation. Also, outside of subcultures, being different is very looked down upon. I know a lot of people think of Japan as ultra accepting as far as weird fashion goes, but that's only true in big cities.

>>8252053

Different anon here, I've noticed that even when Japanese rebel they do it communally which is why you end up with subcultures where everyone looks the same.

>>8252053
This. I mean FFS Japan has one of the highest suicide rates because it's considered honorable to kill yourself for shit like failing out of college. Americans romanticize the community part of the culture since it sounds nice on the surface, but the reality is far from their fantasy land.

>>8251755
>living in Italy
>neved had catcalling when walking alone
Maybe because i live in bumfuck town and well i never dress that revealing. But well i won't appreciate to be hit randomly from a guy.

>>8252053
Thanks for some insight. My initial thought is Scandanavian cultures would probably be less strict, but I'm sure there's a lot of downsides too.

Another thing I remember about my short time in Japan is everyone is big on certifications and licenses. Like you could be applying to be an English to Japanese interpreter, and speaking to the person interviewing you in perfect Japanese, but if you don't have the accreditation and piece of paper that says you can do it then it won't matter.

>>8251839
I think it's less about America teaching us we're special snowflakes and more about white people romanticizing oppression. Wiggers and "1/64th Cherokee" people were doing it loooooong before tumblr's special snowflakes and it's not only in America.

>>8250150
You got hit by a car? Shouldn't have crossed the road.
Had your house burgled? Shouldn't own a nice house.
Killed in an earthquake? Should've moved out of Japan.

Victim blaming is easy, and in the two examples (rich dude and Die Hard) anyone attacking them still made a choice. Unless you're a damn insect reacting to external stimuli on fucking chemical impulse alone you have a choice and you're fucking well responsible for making it.

If you ever get mugged, and your first thought isn't "Well, I was carrying a wallet, I guess I was asking for it," you're a goddamn hypocrite.

>>8252663

Tbf I probably deserved it when I lost various items. I wasn't careful enough with them and I learned my lesson.

I actually think it's flawed to compare it to something as subjective as 'She was wearing x and that's why she got raped.' As someone pointed out before, most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. Most rapes are committed probably regardless of what they were wearing. It's a moot point. We shouldn't be even arguing it.

>>8251846
I live in Spain and it's normal here. If you're not interested just ignore them or say you aren't interested. My friends and I mostly laugh about it, he isn't trying to voice-rape you or whatever, it's so fucking annoying to me that American women make a huge deal out of it.
>>8252097
Not many people appreciate it but it isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

>>8252102
Scandinavian cultures are less strict but are very sly about treating you badly and judging you secretly behind polite words. I'm normally not very confident but when I applied for a job I tried to sell myself and said without pardon all the things I can do and have done.
The interviewer just said 'haha must be good to be so confident, I could never get the hang of it myself' and shot me a deathly glare as I was getting ready to leave.
If you stick out here people will beat you down so hard you won't even know what happened, it doesn't go for teenagers and crazy fashion but even unintentionally being an overachiever and not hiding it warrants bullying according to some people here.

>>8252681
>I live in Spain and it's normal here. If you're not interested just ignore them or say you aren't interested. My friends and I mostly laugh about it, he isn't trying to voice-rape you or whatever, it's so fucking annoying to me that American women make a huge deal out of it.

Yeah, idgi. I'm from Brasil and it doesn't matter what you're wearing or what you look like, you get catcalled. Is it indicative of a machismo culture? Totally. Are you going to change it by collapsing on the ground ~LITERALLY SHAKING OMG~? Fuck no. Was the same when I visited Italy, Portugal and Mexico. So we all get taught from early on that you can't control the people on the other side of the street, so why the fuck bother? Let them catcall, it's background noise and about as threatening as roadwork noises. It's got nothing to do with you or how you're dressed. They're just a bunch of dudes trying to show off to each other in some macho thing. If anything they're more of a sexual threat to each other than you since honestly the people they're trying to show off to are the other guys around them. Big woop. And if one of them does bother you you tell him to fuck off, but oh noes my triggers LITERALLY SHAKING "OMG HE IS A *MAN* AND I AM BUT A WEAK AND FEEBLE WOMAN (also I'm totally a feminist but I think women are inferior to men and that men are inherently a threat due to the superiority I perceive in them but I'm totally a feminist you gaaaizzz)!11oneone"

I always want to feel bad for American girls that it does seem that American mother and daughter relationships (or niece and aunt, daughter father, sisters and brothers, cousins, whatever) aren't so close and open to have discussions about this when you're young enough to learn enough self confidence to not give a crap what someone hollers at you. But then they have to start with the MISOGYNYYY CATCALLING IS LITERALLY RAAAAPE NOT GOING INTO THE GHETTO AT NIGHT BY YOURSELF IS RACIIIST and it's like, welp.

>>8252734
The thing is a lot of girls don't see the line between a guy being harmless and a guy being creepy whether it's in one direction or another. Some girls think of the most demeaning shit as flattering and some girls think of the most harmless compliment on their looks as offensive. A guy saying you're hot is not the same as a guy outright telling you you have nice tits and he wants to fuck them.

>>8250150
>comparing wearing revealing clothing to public displays of extreme racism
You can't argue with full retard

>>8252751
>A guy saying you're hot is not the same as a guy outright telling you you have nice tits and he wants to fuck them.

I get that, after a while I have to accept that some of it is cultural. To some of us, the idea of a guy coming up to us in the street in the middle of the day and saying he wants a titty fuck would be more cause to laugh, make fun of him or brush him off and just walk away. The idea of a guy coming up to us at night and saying the same thing is why in a lot of our cultures we're taught from a young age to always walk in groups at night and stay in well lit areas. We're taught this as soon as we're young enough to play outside in the street.

If a guy walks up to you and says something nasty, you can tell them to fuck off, you can laugh in their face or you can keep walking. Its fine if you don't want to confront him, you don't have to. Just walk away. If you still feel uncomfortable, stay where there are a lot of people. If you think you're being followed, go into a store. If he follows you there, tell the attendant to call the police. If you're out on the street and there are no stores, look for other people, tell them you think you're being followed. Just having people around will help until you can call the police. But most of the time he's just being a jackass and honestly, it's not going to ruin the rest of your day, and don't let it. Whatever was going through that guy's head is between him and his conscience. You can't know what he was thinking, so don't bother giving him a second thought. And, as always, at night always try to stay in groups and never go into unknown areas especially by yourself. Don't get drunk by yourself-- if you're going to drink, have friends nearby, always. There is no way to be 100% safe, men and women get raped everyday. But take stock of what you do have control over and try to exercise what power you have. You can't control the men, but don't let them control you.

>>8252734
Brazil is a fucking shithole. Don't even act like the behavior there is the norm for any first world country. You challenge any man over there and you get hit, or get cut and thrown in a dumpster. Stop pretending like you really have a choice and it's "no big deal" to you when you go for a five minute walk and some gross AIDs man says he wants to pump your worthless hole full of savage semen.

>>8252791
>Brazil is a fucking shithole. Don't even act like the behavior there is the norm for any first world country.

LOL. It's because Brasil is NOT a first world country. Hell, it's getting further away from being a first world country each and every day (yeah, I know, first world country is about soviet alliances and not political stability, but still.)

However, if there's one thing we actually do right, at least in most Brasilian families, is we talk to people when they're still kids about the realities of the girl. Boy or girl, doesn't matter, there are bad people out there who will fuck your shit up. You can't control that and you most certainly can't control them. The only one you can control is yourself and the choices you make. Sometimes even then bad shit still happens, but you can only control your own choices. Sorry your mom or aunt or dad or grandma or cousins or siblings or third door neighbour weren't there to give you this talk, hth. With the whole ~no big deal~ thing tho you might just have had those people around but you also suffer from a severe case of frescuriti aguda. In that case, harden up or move to America and cry with the white girls.

>>8252804
>It's because Brasil is NOT a first world country.

Yes, exactly my point dear. You have to go around pretending that hyper-sexualized comments don't bother you, travel in packs or face the consequences, and ignore "for the better" when someone verbally abuses you in public.
In first world countries, we have rights and we don't have to tolerate animalistic behavior like that. Our societies rightfully punish the offenders instead of patting them on the ass for acting out their selfish emotional and physical desires.

I detest the attitude that since "some will always be bad" that there should be no reason to still call out the offenders who do it, that we all have to accept whatever bullshit someone gives us at all times.
But hey, maybe that attitude is part of the reason why your country is among the highest murder rates. It's every person for themselves over there. I hope you find your way to civilized society soon.

>>8252822

Holy crap if you think Brasil is not a first world country because Brasilian women don't give a crap about catcalling I-- I don't know what to tell you. I really, really, really don't. Wow.

Wow.

But uh. Enjoy your shaking and your triggering when men yell stuff at you from across the street or do something you don't like but you're too triggered to tell him to fuck off.

Wow. The only thing keeping Brasil from being a first world nation is we Brasilian women not collapsing into an epileptic fit every time a man does something we don't like. If only we stopped confronting men when they did something we don't like. If only we were meek and obedient and shivered daintily whenever a big scary man did something we didn't like. But no! We damned our country when we made the collective decision that we'd rather confront people and tell them to fuck off as opposed to obsess about it forever! What did we do?!

>>8252822
>America
>first world
[citation needed]
Also not even that anon, inb4. I'm >>8252693
but I have to agree with the Brazilian anon, you should read the story about the boy who cried wolf.

>>8252822

Uhh... Men are also told to "travel in packs" at night to keep from getting their asses jumped...?

>>8252765
They are perfectly comparable. In neither case is the victim actually asking to be assaulted, they are going out dressed as they please, and are perfectly in their right to do so.
You cant make a reasonable argument that the girl with a revealing outfit anymore than the racist or the guy with $100 bills taped to his coat DESERVE to be victimized. But only in the first case is it suggested that reason somehow magically translates into the real world and that because people should have a right to dress however they want, they can do so without facing the consequences. It doesn't make a bit of difference whose really to "blame", its a total abstraction, the fact is there are people out there who can and will blame the victim to their own selfish ends and pretending they don't exist is stupid and dangerous.

>>8252835
>Holy crap if you think Brasil is not a first world country because Brasilian women don't give a crap about catcalling
Honey no, that's not the reason why Brazil is a shithole..in fact I even stated why. Do murder and assault rates mean anything to you?

>>8252837
Do you have evidence that it is not?

>>8252842
Yes, that country is dangerous.
Hence why making comparisons about what women should do to protect themselves is kind of a moot point since they don't have a choice.
What would you prefer: Your life, or taking a catcall? In civilized countries you don't have to worry about getting assaulted or murdered for telling someone off when they disrespect you. You don't have to worry about revenge killing when you take your rapist to jail.

>>8252871
And for the record, no, I would not like to live in a society where I can't go for a walk by myself at dusk and never wear a cocktail dress because that would be the "smart" thing to do. That's awful. If you don't mind bearing the brunt of other peoples' actions then that's your deal.

by definition America is first world because it's a developed capitalist country. second world was socialist/communist countries. third world was developing and neutral countries.

>>8252871

Revenge killing? People getting assaulted or murdered for telling someone off when they disrespect you? Latin America has its share of problems but it isn't exactly Mad Max down there.

Also lol at women not having a choice. Where are you getting this from? The whole point of my posts is exactly that we have a choice, we have multiple choices in fact, we're taught the choice is ours to make. You can do out at night by yourself and be petrified (anywhere in the world going outside at night is dangerous. Just last year or the year before a girl got raped at comic con when she wandered into the ghetto in the middle of the night. That wasn't in the evil wilds of Brasil, that was in San Diego, California. It's horrific and she certainly didn't deserve it, but it can happen in any country,) or you can go out in a group and feel more comfortable in numbers. No one in Brasil keeps you from going outside unless you have friends with you, it's just one of the many tactics you're taught to make yourself as safe as you can. Tactics which rightly apply to every country in the world.

Lady, horrible people exist everywhere. In CGL we saw that girl who got killed in Australia because of some madman stalking her. There's something on the TV about two men breaking into a woman's apartment, raping her, orally raping her, and pouring bleach down her throat to get rid of evidence. Honey, it might feel safer to believe that's in the evil wildes of the brown south, but I hate to break it to you that's in Southern California.

Women being unafraid of men doesn't make a country dangerous. Women and men alike doing whatever little things they can to keep themselves safe does not make a country dangerous. Everything I said applies for America, England, Italy, Hong Kong, you name it. Bad people are an international thing. Rape and rapists have been around since the dawn of time in every culture. You're only hurting yourself if you think you can outrun or outhide the problem.

>>8252877
>>8252876
>>8252871
holy shit nobody cares about Brazil or your beef with it fuck off

>>8252854
Are you even trying.JPEG

They are not comparable no matter how you chose to look at it. Women are allowed to go topless in many places and chose to do so because there is nothing inherently sexual or immoral about exposed breasts. Get your puritanical as back on the Mayflower.

If I see someone holding up a sign that perpetuates dangerous attitudes and is demeaning to disadvantaged people I will fucking tackle you to the ground and rip that shit up. None has the right to call anyone nigger. And have the ancestry and skin color of fucking Nosferatu.

>>8252871
Honey no, that's not the reason why Brazil is a shithole..in fact I even stated why. Do murder and assault rates mean anything to you?

Also, I know this will fly over your head, but Brasil is not a third world shithole because women are not afraid of men and its most certainly not because we refuse to view all man as rapey rape machines who rape. We're a third world shithole due to a massive class discrepancy and a government that is so corrupt it's borderline cartoonish.

>And for the record, no, I would not like to live in a society where I can't go for a walk by myself at dusk and never wear a cocktail dress because that would be the "smart" thing to do.

Do... Do you honestly think Brasilian women aren't... Allowed to wear dresses...?

...When you say Brasil, do you know which country you're talking about? It's the big one in latin America. You know, the one famous for Victoria's secret models, thongs, and the Brasilian Wax...?

>>8252912
And I have*

>>8252902
>>8252909
>>8252914
Hah, okay love. Point is you won't catch me in Brazil.
It's good for you, and it's good for me. I like it where I live.

>>8252909
Brasilnon here. Sorry about the derail and feeding the troll. I've never seen someone be this ignorant before and I honestly can't tell if they're trolling or genuinely this stupid.

>>8252914
The Brazilian wax was invented and labeled as such by a white woman from new York who operated a spa afaik

She was white. And thought the exotic name would convince women to get it done,whch it did.

>>8252854
>They are perfectly comparable.
lolno

The woman wearing little clothing is not doing anything that harms anyone in any way. The guy holding the sign saying "I hate niggers" is shoving race hate in people's faces and hurting every black person that sees that sign. How do you not see the difference? I agree with you that one can't deny the fact that there will always be people who blame the victim and to deny this is stupid, but to say a man carrying a sign like that is just as much a victim if he is attacked as a woman wearing skimpy clothing is if she gets raped is just ridiculous.

>>8252939
Did not know that! Either way, in a hot ass country during bikini season it's still a life saver.

If the troll thinks wearing a dress is tantamount to asking to get raped in latin america she'd have a cardiac arrest if she were to see one of our beaches.

>>8252902
Denmark has the highest rates of sexual assault in yurop too, higher than many developed countries too iirc. But the western media doesn't report on all those white sex offenders, they report the two instances that northern European women were raped by Muslims in Egypt during riots over and over again. Tons of assaults are not as sensational as two assaults on preshus white women by darkies.

I hate everything.

>>8252948
For real dude.
And honestly, Latin people are super grabby and their sense of personal space is way different from American's.
So really just because some guy whistled at you and called you sexy doesn't mean he's going to rape you.

>>8252953
Japan has that problem too. Unfortunately it's not that the rape rates are actively lower, it's just that you don't want to stick out or cause trouble for anyone so you don't tell anyone.

>>8252957
>>And honestly, Latin people are super grabby and their sense of personal space is way different from American's.

Even better is with the English. In some latin countries you greet by hugging and kissing. Now try doing that to an Englishperson. Learned not to do that ri-ight quick. You want to talk strong women, English women do not fuck around.

But on the frequency of rape, the most haunting thing I ever heard was when I was being tested at my college (in America) for depression. Doctor asks me if I've ever been raped or molested or touched and I said no. The dude looks up and me and says: "Wow, that's pretty unusual." That has to be one of the saddest goddamn things I've ever heard.

where would one be raised to not be exposed to catcalling? I see it in every other demographic/area most people complaining about this probably never walk out in public . Atleast without their parents.

>>8252972
I'm curious about anon's magical catcalling free rape free violence free murder free nation too. I want to live there!

>>8252969
>The dude looks up and me and says: "Wow, that's pretty unusual." That has to be one of the saddest goddamn things I've ever heard.
Dude.
Yes this it really surprises how many American girls have been raped. Now when I hear about it I'm like "Oh, another one..."
Like, damn nigga.

>>8252972

>>8252912
You maybe didn't read or didn't seem to grasp the point of my post, which is that your opinion of the morality of the situation has zero relevance to reality, where explaining that there isnt anything inherently sexual about exposed breasts doesnt do much at all to prevent girls from being raped. That requires accepting some common sense ideas like that its probably best not to expose your breasts in public if you want to avoid unwanted attention, and generally acknowledging that the actions you take have some consequences.

>>8252972
the types of people who rally and protest against it look and act exactly as tumblry as you'd picture. fat pixiecut 'androgynous' tattooed and pierced and most likely the only 'catcalls' they get are calling them fucking ugly, and not just by men either. there was a protest with signs n shit in the park in my city and i stood across from them with a sign saying to fight for important worthwhile causes and they confronted me but I pissed them off by explaining to them that this kind of shit is the least important thing to be protesting and they left.

men and women both catcall eachother, but only the stupid ones do it at all. it's not them being sexist or disrespectful they're just idiots so they don't know any better. doesn't make it right, but people act like it's some sort of malicious act.

>>8252976
People act like it exist. I cant begin to think why people just now act so shocked and scared of catcalling. I heard nothing about these assault issues until that girl in nyc uploaded that video.
Its stupider than the videos of people bending phones.
>>8252979
wat

>>8252977
Seriously. Sometimes it comes out from your friends on accident, that's always when it stings because you know they're not getting help for it. I so wish there wasn't this backlash against sexual education because young people need to be taught that their bodies are natural, their sexual urges are natural, and if they're touched or raped it's not their fault and they're not dirty and they didn't do anything to deserve it. They didn't ask for it, they're not dirty, they weren't dressed wrong or whatever. So many times with my American friends they'd start getting upset over their breast size because they thought having big breasts made them 'look slutty.' This from like, fourteen and thirteen year olds. They thought them having breasts made them look slutty. Them, women, having breasts, as women are wont to do. And yet they thought they were somehow, I don't know, wrong or marred or tainted and that if guys made them feel uncomfortable it was because 'they looked slutty' as opposed to because the guy was a fucking creep. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum there were the friends who became terrified of any men looking at them because they thought a man simply looking at a chick is prelude to getting jumped.

Who are people helping by shutting young men and women out about their own bodies and sexualities, seriously? Pardon the hyperbole, but the only person you're protecting are the rapists. They know the survivors will feel guilty and dirty and won't tell anyone, so why hold back? It's as you say. It's reached a point where your reaction starts becoming "Oh, you as well..." and then you realise just how fucked up it is that this is so common and yet so silent.

>>8252984
Unwanted attention is not rape. Rape is a violent act that is done to inflict pain and weild power over the victim. If ppl accept that exposed breasts are essentially mounds of flesh that shouldn't have a negative connotation associated w them we'd all be happy. The real problem is that women are pressured to conform this ideal by media and are taught to see their own objectification as empowerment. God forbid ur boobs sag a little. Oh, the horror! If more women felt comfortable going topless we'd be less insecure and judgemental.

>>8252994

Honestly with catcalls I always just figured the catcaller is more focused on the people around them than their targets. It's always guys in groups or women in groups. It's stupid, but maybe they think it's funny or it's a way of reasserting themselves to their bros. When it's a single person it comes off as a way of being all 'hey everyone, look at me, look what an assertive man/woman I am, watch as I make a total ass of myself, aren't I tough and confident pleasedon'tlookatmeoractuallyrespondtome' There's that element of 'safe distance' to catcalling as opposed to going up to a person that always made me thing it's for show

also apparently 4chan bot thinks i don't know what a hamburger looks like

>>8252929
They're a yank of course they're ignorant

>>8253013
>The real problem is that women are pressured to conform this ideal by media and are taught to see their own objectification as empowerment.

By your own argument though, can't women too derive a sense of empowerment from their sexuality? In the same way dudes like seeing yoked out supeheroes and wrestlers for a power fantasy, some women like seeing drop dead gorgeous women in media for nothing but a power fantasy. Both male and female standards are pushed beyond humanly possible, ofcourse, but surely it's not so wrong for women to dream about having perpetually perky CC's while men dream about looking like Hugh Jackman as Wolverine?

>>8252972
Lesbos

>>8252979

Yanknon spotted

>>8253002
>not knowing of the land of Amazons, forbidden to men

>>8253002
Catcalling can be pretty scary, anon. People shouting unintelligible and angry sounding things out of car windows is weird as fuck.

>>8253048
women use bodies in a different context, usually to attract men. The issue with immaturity stems form elementary school when we're told to cover our selves at youth for no other reason than our bodies are bad/ inappropriate things.

>>8253072
I don't find the unintelligible stuff that bad, more annoying or somewhat disconcerting. Better than the time I was 13 and walking with my friends in the middle of the day and some 40 year old men that were at a stop light tried to ask us how much it would cost for us to have sex with them. We were on our way to church. Now that shit was upsetting.

>>8253048

It is assumed that women are not as threatened by attractive females as men are by attractive men hence the ubiquitous hot chick in most movies. Women probably appreciate attractiveness and admire confidence about as much as men do. I dunno if that's what you'd call a "power fantasy" but that's what I think. Being dictated that you should look and be a certain way if you want to "be taken seriously" in a male centric society is still the norm. Appealing to men is seen as some great achievement. That's what the Beyonces and Britneys of this world tell us. That you will be rewarded by society for objectifying yourself.

>>8253058
until the french came in with guns. That's un relatable due to no men being there, no chance of catcall. Although in some other African cultures girls get their feet wiped by guys and aggressive, assertive men are preferred.

>>8250071
>mfw this entire thread

>>8253072
>People shouting unintelligible and angry sounding things
Well this is my mom so a guy doing the same wouldn't even phase me. Growing up I'd also see catcalling being done to others so I saw it as a heads up for when I got other.

>>8253086
>women use bodies in a different context, usually to attract men

Don't we also use them to feel good about ourselves? A woman works out to check out her body in the mirror, or a lolita is dedicated to her outfit to fitting her ideal image of beauty, or a cosplayer spends all her time doing her hair and make up to make sure she looks exactly like what she imagines the character to look like. Is it all just for men? I think where I agree with you in media is that we're (as young girls) told from a young age we should be focusing on grabbing the attention of boys, we watch shows aimed at teenage girls and wonder why do all the girls obsess so much over boys and will we obsess over boys when we grow up and that obsessing over boys is a necessary rite of passage and sign of maturity. And that happens, especially when puberty is at its hardest, but can't there be a balance? I remember saying I had crushes on boys just because I thought it was what I was supposed to do, that was what was normal for girls my age.

Now while all the examples I listed are of women living up to their own expectations, there are sadly women who base their self worth on the approval of others (be it men or friends or their parents,) but is that a woman thing or is that a general people thing? Don't guys do the same thing, the so called mansluts who base their self worth on how many women they can sleep with?

I do agree with you that a lot of people's insecurities about their body comes from teaching children they need to cover up. The insinuation here being that there is something that must need to be covered up, and something is only covered up because its bad. Just last week a family got kicked out of my complex's pool because the little girl, 4 or 5, had the top of her swimsuit come off and was running around. Considering it's a toddler with the body of a potato, I don't really get what is the point there. You're only reinforcing the idea that 'your body is bad.'

>>8253072
You call that scary I've had guys drive by and shoot paintballs at my ass.

>>8253124
Were these people strangers? That's pretty dangerous.

>>8252976
I live in inland eastern America and nobody around here gets catcalled, murdered, and usually all violence cases are domestic or drug related. Women around here don't put up with that and most men grew up to respect women.

I have had personal run in with black and hispanic men when I've gone into urban areas though. But for the most part my college town is quiet.
I don't think it's so far fetched to believe my kind of areas exist.

>>8253025
pretty much this, they're usually in those groups of men or gaggles of women looking at the girl or dude's ass and talking with their friends about how they'd 'tap dat' then they say something and their idiot friends think they're cool.

>>8253130

>>8253103
>That's what the Beyonces

Hey now don't you knock the feminist powerhouse that is BeyBey. Nevermind how after she got married to Jay Z she, a multiple award winning performer, actually titled her album Mrs. Carter as though she now were defined by her marriage and that her marrying Jay Z redefined her identity, BeyBey is a feminist because tumblr gifs told me so.

>>8253139
Why are you laughing? Anon asked if there was such thing as places to live where catcalling and violence isn't common and my area happens to be one of them. Is there a problem?

>>8253130

>>Inland Eastern America

>>All men are perfect gentlemen

>>Except them dirty brown and black men

Suddenly every exchange I've had with you makes a who~o~le lot more sense.

>>8253146

No problem.

It would never happen but if sex was treated as less of a taboo/mystical thing we could make some progress in society. Kids should not be suspended from school because they say penis or vagina as opposed to weewee or coochie. Girls should not be taught that their virginity is some sacred aura that will make them less of a person as soon as their hymen breaks. Sex is natural, normal and it can suck or be awful or amazing. But as long as religion keeps layering shame on everything people are going to always be weird about sex and do shitty things because of it.

>>8253149
What are you implying? There's a difference between educated black and latino people who respect others and inner city niggers and spics spouting bullshit at the malls.
There's white trash for sure, but I don't hang around ghettos often enough.

>>8253153
>whitey is a KKK for disliking asshole minorities

>>8253130
>>I live in inland eastern America and nobody around here gets catcalled, murdered, and usually all violence cases are domestic or drug related.

It's alright guys, pack up the thread. Anon has found the utopia. Sure a redneck may get high and run his wife over with the trailer a couple of times a week, but at least there ain't none of that there catcalling shit, that's for them colored folk. Anon's people like to stick more to the good ol' fashioned wife beating.

>>8253159
Oh fiddle-de-dee, anon

>>8252734
Maybe dudes are just creepier about it in the US? Usually when I am catcalled, the man is less than two feet away from me, not across the street. They will usually include some gross racist component too. Twice I have been minding my own business when some nasty homeless guy literally whipped out his dick and started jerking off at me.

>>8253122
Most women only feel good about themselves when others like them. Lolitas will often hang will other Lolitas because there coordinates will be more liked and appreciated . Cosplayers of the same characters will usually compare each other. The reason behind a person who worries about looks is bad ,not being into looks overall. Men are into power, you'll more often here guys online getting into those "battle of the majors/salaries" post and argue over who's more successful.

>>8253162
>let me show how bad I think racist stereotypes are by countering with racist stereotypes
you seem a bit angry.

>>8253165
You're really butthurt.

>>8253159
>inner city niggers and spics

I'm not implying anything you're not saying, damn son.

When you say your area is murder free are we counting lynchings are murder or no

>>8253146
because you're just as ignorant as fucking tumblrite slacktivists. good god.

>in my town everyone is super nice and we have a good ole fashion time with milk men and the paper boy and pies on every windowsill.

>>8253179
>town
I live a 20 minute drive from a major city with two unis. There's a lot of different people. We're not that violent. Unless you count bar fights and bad drug deals. We're not all white and I don't live in the sticks like you'd like to believe.

But yeah, how dare anyone not report to you that their areas aren't known for homicides and rapes. Fucking hell.

>>8253185
>homicides and rapes

just wife beatings but no biggie

>>8252994
>women catcall men
I have literally never heard of this happening ever.

>>8253186
And domestic violence. Which still isn't homicide. Your point? You wanted someone to say where there isn't a lot of killing or rape, well, hello.

>>8253190
You've never been around black women

>>8253193
>being around those kinds of black women
nty

>>8253185
most areas aren't 'known' for that kind of shit unless it's like big ghetto areas, but it likely still happens just as much as in other places, which isn't that much, but still it happens. also you still live in a town if you have to drive 20 minutes to a city. i lived in a place that called itself a 'city' but we had to drive 40 minutes to go to a mall.

>>8253190
You've never been at a pride parade.

>>8253195
I told you it doesn't happen as much as other places or else I wouldn't be saying shit. Fact: Homicide rates for Brazil are 50,000 per year compared to 1,500 in America.

>>8253190
it depends on your defention of catcalling. According to recent occurances/tumblrwimmin saying hi or complementing is catcalling. Guys dont complain and tell the world there being catcalled.

>>8253190
do you seriously think it doesn't happen? I've actually seen it happen more around where I live. gaggles of fat middleaged women will catcall college students doing runs and shit all the time. it's fucking hilarious. i think catcalling is actually hilarious because it points out dumb or pathetic people. and i'm still sure that at the least, 89% of people who are so against it and trying to 'fight' it have no idea how little importance it actually is to anyone. it's just another one of those things "omg men may be treating women like sex objects? time to take to the streets against this injustice!" it's really just not even important at all, except to like 2 people in the world.

>>8253203
>catcalling must never border on harassment or abuse because I only ever see fat women do it, Topkek right?

>>8253201
are you that brazil idiot? awesome. did you know that china has the highest rate of asian suicides in the world? really makes you think huh, brazil has the highest rate of brazilian homicides too. it's crazy! countries are different who would have thought.

another country having a higher rate of something doesn't discount the fact that the other country still has it.

>>8253197
I have been. Fucking degenerates running around in body paint and butt plugs. Didn't hear any catcalling there though.

>>8253191
Oh my god. First you don't know what a first world country is, now this. Lady, wife beating is a form of domestic violence.

Also, you seriously expect us to believe your town has a zero rate of homicide and rape? When it's 20 minutes from an urban center? Like, what, you expect us to take your word for it?

Dude, do you realise how many foreigners are reading these forums? You've shown incredible ignorance of the world about you, you've honest to god tried passing your culture as superior to others in the same breath that you mention the frequency of domestic abuse as being comparatively not bad when compared to goddamn catcalling and yes, making a differentiation between 'the good latinos and blacks' versus 'the niggers and spics' does show you're at least a bit of an ignorant racist. Do you realise you are the walking stereotype everyone hopes to distance from? You're the type of American we have to point at and go 'They're not all like that, I swear.' Goddamn, woman. You have internet access. Learn about the world and get some perspective. Join the peace corps and get out of Alabama.

>>8253202
I don't think anyone actually uses that definition though? Catcalls need to be overtly sexual in nature to count.

>>8253190
Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUeOWlgebM
Feminist truth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC21NF5rbSk

Men get equally as much attention as women if they are hot - just men have to put in a lot more effort to be hot than women. There are a lot less attractive men out there so you don't hear them being catcalled as much.

>>8253201
>>I told you it doesn't happen as much as other places or else I wouldn't be saying shit.
Oh well I mean if you say so then!

>>8253205
then it's not catcalling, it's harassment and abuse, they are separate things. even if the cause is catcalling it doesn't mean that the catcalling in general is anything close to that. post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy you know. catcallers who harass and abuse people are going to do it in other instances.

also your definition of harassment is probably really really broad compared to you know, real harassment.

>>8253215
some people do, some tumblrfucks will stop at nothing to try to paint everyone but themselves in a horrid light.

>>8253218
it has little to do with men being attractive or not it's just that men have to put up with more shit because they're expected to. i love how this wave of feminists claim to be trying to break gender roles but they're putting themselves up as the victim and making the whole female population look as stereotypical as possible.

>>8253211
First of all, I said America is a first world country and Brazil is not, I am right.


Secondly, I just said my area has domestic violence. Stop cherry picking and not reading everything.
Domestic violence does not mean rape.

>not being known for rape and homicide=it never happens
It's on you for presuming that. It doesn't happen often here, no. The rates will still never touch Brazil's at that.

You're just some dumb bitch pointing fingers at the yank and thinking you know better for being foreign, and evidently, you hate the idea of there being a significantly lower rape and homicide statistic than in your area.

I'd say "get fucked," but given your country, that's probably in the works for you soon.

>>8253229
I agree with you.

>>8253226
I have never seen unattractive men being catcalled. Pretty much it's only the buff ones with good facial structure and genetics on their side. All we as women have to do is be moderately skinny (Im chubs and people catcalled me once) and put some effort into our hygiene.

I don't count myself a victim, I do whatever the fuck I want. Yeah maybe I am not made to be as strong as some dude, but I don't let myself be victimised by anyone, let alone "feminists" when I am a woman.

>>8253203
It's not that I think it's never happened before, but it doesn't seem to be a wide spread problem the way that men catcalling is. I've never heard any men IRL talk about being cat called, and online it's all dudes complaining about how women never pay any attention to them. It doesn't seem like a social problem.

>>8253236
My husband gets catcalled, even when I'm with him. He doesn't care, and he never really talks about it. It bugs me when I'm with him though, I mean what am I, chopped liver? Such rude women, not that that's surprising if they're catcalling people.

>>8253218
Those catcalls seem really tame. "Ooh that guy's hot" or "can I have your number?'. It would be so much nicer if guys cat called me like that. Instead it's usually:
>Hey sugar tits, I'd fuck you! I'd fuck you right now!!! Get back here bitch!
> MMMM gurl I would rock your boat. Do you speak English?
>Hey we're going to a party you should come! Why won't you get in the damn car, cunt?!

All from the past month and I barely leave my house.

>>8253229
>You're just some dumb bitch pointing fingers at the yank and thinking you know better for being foreign, and evidently, you hate the idea of there being a significantly lower rape and homicide statistic than in your area.

My god do you really think everyone in this thread is just one dirty brown foreigner out to get you?

And no, domestic violence does not mean rape. It does mean wife beating, so no, your area isn't a magical wonderland where all women are treated with respect as you implied earlier. Quite frankly it seems like your area doesn't have respect for much of anything. I'm the Brasilian anon and let me tell you, no matter how bad things get, looking away will never make things get better. We looked away for years in Brasil and you see exactly where it got us, those numbers don't lie. You honestly think you're immune? You honestly think when the violence started, when the homicides started, there weren't people looking away and going 'There's nothing wrong'? 'It's all the fault of the blacks' 'It's all the fault of the immigrants'? 'We don't have a problem other countries have problems.' I was hearing that about 20 years ago. You want to sit there calling people niggers and spics, saying wife beating isn't as bad as catcalling, saying rape and murder don't exist in your area, that's fine and dandy. You just look all the bigger fool to the rest of the thread.

But I will say this, as ignorant as you are, there were at least five other Americans showing us that more people are seeing the problem with sexual violence in the States. Not in the Tumblr RAWRMISOGYNYCATCALLINGISRAPE way, but it was really cool seeing people discuss possible causes and discussing potential ways to deal with sexual abuse and ways to prevent it. Trollnon can just rot away with their fingers in their ears. What separates America's fate from that of its latin cousins is those people who see there is a problem and would rather talk about it than hide from it.

>>8250071
when did this thread turn into that top gear alabama special with the giant southern woman threatening to sick her 'boys' on the lispy englishmen

>>8253268
Top kek episode you mean

>>8253229
Ayyyy lmao

>>8253274

>>8253257
Domestic violence can be used against men, fucktard. It does not mean wife beating. It means domestic violence.

>>8253285
Oh that makes it okay then.

>>8253290
>thinks domestic abuse is ok
lol bye

>>8253294
that was sarcasm son damn you mad

>>8253218
Ugly women get attention though, ugly guys don't and when ugly women do it's weird and aggressive as fuck. I'm ugly, don't dress up in a way anyone would find attractive and I still get harassed in the street, that includes sexually. It's not because I'm attractive, it's because street harassment is supposed to intimidate you. They're doing it specifically to be scary. There are women who will approach people in the street, there are men who will but the women approaching men aren't doing it to be threatening. Not all the men are either, to be clear though.

>>8253130

>>8253301

I think there's lots of different reasons though. As mentioned above thread, some are just doing it to show off, others are doing it because they think it's funny, others are doing it because they're insecure and they want to divert attention away from themselves and onto a victim. Don't think it's because you're ugly anon, I'm not saying that to be all asspatt. They look for the nearest target and latch on. The aggressiveness is a macho thing. Sometimes yes it's to intimidate you, sometimes it's to reaffirm them, sometimes it's to reaffirm their standing to their buddies and sometimes it's a way to show everyone else on the street what a big tough guy douchebag thinks he is.

Women absolutely can get aggressive, but towards other women it seems to be more of a territory thing? I don't know, in my experience. My best friend got beat up all the time for being a light skinned black girl or 'high yellow,' I get called bougy because I was raised not to make eye contact and some women see that as an act of snobbishness. When women do this to men it's like a way or asserting themselves, showing their confident and, they believe, they think it show's their positive with their sexuality. I promise you, it's not because you're ugly.

>>8253316
I'm just saying it's not happening because I'm hot since I'm not. People who say it only happens because you're attractive or dress up and if you don't do that it won't happen are wrong.

>>8253301
You're either a dude trolling or have very low self esteem.

Men don't catcall "ugly" girls to intimidate them much of the time. There's a sexual undercurrent to it. Esp.if the gesture resembled an aggressive come on. It's not just for show, or tI o assert dominance as you've said. I have no idea why you don't want to acknowledge it's sexual nature. If they thought that you were ugly they wouldn't give you the attention. They're still pigs though.

>>8253236
It's cause men are taught to not care about that kind of thing, anon. They might, but they're taught not to. Everyone should be taught to not care about that shit sure it's gross and creepy sometimes but not really harmful and it's certainly not a pressing issue like many others that are ignored for it.

>>8253318
you were just saying that there's NO way it happens to ugly dudes, just ugly women. stop. you and everyone need to accept the fact that most of the same shit that happens to women also happens to men and there's no reason it should be a 'problem' for one and not the other.

I've had women grope me and ask me to take them home and fuck them, in words as blunt as that.

I have a long term girl so always say no which generally won't stop them until I flat out tell them to jump on some other cock.

It's annoying, but who gives a shit? That kind of 'harassment' isn't harmful, just don't be an autist and learn how to put people in their place.

>>8253407
A guy my size and weight could probably still overpower me. It's frightening and no one should have to be concerned about being touched by some random person.

>>8253418

...and this 'every guy is a potential rapist!' shit needs to stop.

A normal, functional member of society does not rape or otherwise violently assault someone. The people out there that are rapists, murderers and muggers will commit those crimes regardless. No amount of legislation, no high profile 'slut walk', no catchy slogans on the internet will stop them. You can choose to aware yourself and take some responsibility for your safety or you can stick your fingers in your ears and shout "VICTIM SHAMING" as loud as you can.

>>8253372
I don't think that's true. I do mention when I've been catcalled to my male friends or acquaintances, and they always seem surprised. I've asked them if they have experienced something like that and they say they haven't. Personally, I do think that it's a pressing issue. It's not just between men and women who have been "taught not to care." It's also between men and young girls. I was first sexually harassed at 11 years old. I know many other women who were also sexually harassed and cat called from a young age. Other issues aren't being "ignored" so that tumblr "activists" can talk about cat calling, they're just focusing on issues that directly impact them.

>>8253443
While rapists may continue to rape people regardless, victims rarely come forward and report them do to social stigma and misplaced guilt. Communities often look the other way and rape isn't taken seriously. A cultural shift could do a lot to put rapists behind bars.

NEVER I've been called trashy/slut in lolita or being hit on. I don't think the fashion attracts most men, though sometimes there's some +25-year-old guys who seem to be interested in it but they're mostly polite. But people here are very careful with their personal space so that might have something to do it. Only foreigner guys hit on girls on the street and I'm already too old for them, lol.

>>8253452

No idea what country you live in, but rape is pretty much universally appalling in the West.

In the UK there's a problem with rapists not being convicted, but that's more to do with unreliable evidence and lack of witnesses. A judge got into a lot of trouble by saying that women being drunk was a key cause of low conviction rates. She was jumped on by all the liberal retards who can't see further than their own cause.

She was totally right, however. No judge or jury will trust the statement of someone who was paralytic with booze; moral of the story is be responsible, don't drink to excess.

>>8253443
>choose to aware yourself and take some responsibility for your safety
>'every guy is a potential rapist'

You realise that first statement is what leads to the second attitude, right?

>>8253443
I used to be like you until I got a real look into your average dudebro's mentality. The majority of men have internalized sexism and are at least partially aware of how they perpetuate rape culture and misogyny but they just don't give a shit.

These morons don't deserve to be defended at all. They're scum.

They are never gonna change.

>>8253478

Maybe in the crazy mind of a modern 'feminist' but a normal, rational person doesn't see threats everywhere.

>most rapists are people you know!

Don't be such a shit judge of character then.

>>8253485

>rape culture

opinion dropped. you might as well cry about murder culture or violence-in-general culture.

there's being sexist and then there's a willingness to actively hurt someone. i'll admit to being sexist because women drive me up the fucking wall sometimes for no rational reason, but sexual violence against women disgusts me.

>>8253494
> being unclear about a stranger's character/intentions

>You think that all men r rapists!! U so krazy gurl.

Lol fuck off, and stop perpetuating rape culture.

>>8253470
I live in the US. It seems like tons of people say "oh yeah, rape is totally bad" but privately they feel that many victims deserved it, or that it isn't their place to step in, or "he's a good guy and he wouldn't do that". I go to a university and it's a well known fact that tons of rapes happen on campus, especially greek row. Girls get their drinks spiked at frat parties all the time. Rarely do victims come forward. Even if you don't "drink to excess," bad things can still happen. And whether a jury will convict someone isn't even that relevant, because victims rarely file a report at all, let alone try and press charges.

>>8253498
Keep grasping onto your ignorance, bud.

And you drive me up the wall too so the sentiment is mutual.

>>8253502
This is true. Victims not only need to come forward, they need to be shamed for not doing so or at least filing an anonymous report. My mothers friend had her drink drugged and was raped by a government worker, no less, and she "just didn't want to file a report, it was too hard". Even if you do not want to press charges, you need to report this so that when someone who does want to press charges against the same person steps forward, they have support and more than just "the story of a girl who was drunk/drugged".

>>8253485
Also
>rape culture
>misgyny
>internalised sexism
You're new here, aren't you anon?

>>8253503
>>8253500

>run out of points to argue
>i-i'll just call him a shitlord rape-culture herald! yeah!

>>8253502

So what's the answer? Cram more legislation into the face of society to stop violent criminals committing violent crime? Treat every male like a potential rapist and foster a society of mistrust and paranoia? Put women in chastity belts and hijabs?

Rapists gonna rape, there are just imbalanced sociopaths out there who give zero fucks about anyone but themselves. The answer isn't as simple as changing attitudes and social views, which will happen slowly anyway. It was only as recent as the start of the 20th century that women were seen as a valid and available workforce, from there it was only a matter of time before they got the same social rights as men. It will take a lot longer to roll back the thousands of years of social evolution that put women as second class citizens and all the squawking about rape culture is divisive and counter productive. Even so, rape is a cultural problem as ingrained as murder or theft.

Tl;dr Criminals will commit crimes and there's little you can do to stop them.

>>8253494

Anon, think about it.

Option A: Treat all men like potential rapists, never accept an offer or go anywhere with one alone.
Consequence: Men are annoyed but at least you're is safe.

Option B: Treat all men nicely, give them benefit of doubt, etc. One random stranger out of the hundreds spikes your drink and rapes you. Just one guy.
Consequence: Get called skank, slut, whore, people laugh and point their fingers at you, everybody now happy to say how you're always giving guys second changes, now everyone thinks your "friendliness" is slutty, etc etc. Guy goes on to rape yet another nice and friendly girl while your life is ruined, because you were nice to guys.

You see how Option A is much safer, right? You only need to mess up one time with Option B and then everybody starts picking on you and calling you mean names.

If you turn things around and remember that girls who get raped were raped by shitty people, then tell all those girls that they're still awesome and nice people, not sluts and skanks or boozewhores, then you'll lessen the effect of the Option B. That means that in future, they'll be more willing to give you the benefit of doubt, because even if one guy messes up it's not the end of their lives.

That is what fighting rape culture is all about, anon. It's not about blaming guys for rapes in general, it's about saying girls are still awesome people even after being raped, not sluts or skanks.

>>8250204
Try harder.

>>8250256
>Me, Metal lolita.
Where are you from? I'd love a Metal lolita friend!

>>8250269
rape =/= murder

>>8253534

>Option A: unnecessary paranoia
>Option B: total strawman

Rape culture is not a thing that exists. It's a made up, and frankly derogatory, label that creates a fictional view of some twisted Freudian rape society.

Rape is a crime against a person second only to murdering them. It is already illegal to force someone to have sex with you and the punishment is severe if convicted. Rape is not a thing that any Western society condones or enables.

>>8253556

I'm not explaining that, though. I'm explaining >>8253478

Also, I know you're trolling, but my ride is finally here. Thanks for helping me kill ten minutes anon, hope you catch more fish today.

>>8253556
Sad thing is if you say rape culture does not exist you are called a misogynist.
Unless many people can actually rape someone in full view of others and have people cheering them on, or at least not stopping them, we do not have a rape culture.
There are pedophile and drug rings but this does not mean we live in a drug culture or that everyone is a pedophile and we live in a culture that promotes pedophilia.

I have never met anyone who says rape is acceptable. Society may have skewed views on rape (i.e. that it is ever the fault of the person who is raped) but that does not mean we have a culture surrounding and supporting it.

>>8253564

And black/white thinking is actually a symptom of mental illness. There is a medium between situational awareness and all put paranoia.

>>8253565

Apparently making jokes about rape is 'rape culture' and enables rapists. As is pretty much any mediated representation of rape.

I just call it black humour. You can take something horrible and put it in a finny situation without condoning it, but apparently rape culture advocates lack the imagination for this.

>>8253564
No, you are retarded. By your logic nobody should ever drive a car, because it is possible for you to get into an accident and people will call you a bad driver. You should never date anyone, because heaven knows some catty bitch is going to call you a slut and try to turn people against you for dating the guy she has a crush on.

Blind trust in strangers is never a good thing, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt. As with everything, play it by ear.

People who call others skanks for being raped are pieces of shit. Call them on it, don't let them walk all over you. Report the rapist, take the measures necessary. Be the change, don't just wait and expect other people to be appropriate when they haven't been told to change their behaviour. If you want it to change, you have to fucking change it.

Rape is not a cultural thing - in fact all messages in the general media say otherwise (and no, a sexualised doll =/= rape) and so often rape gets blamed on a culture that abhors it when we should be focusing on condemning individual actions. Crying that everything is a rape culture and hosting slut walks does NOTHING - most of the women who do those do not even practise what they preach and will still stay silent when raped. You want things to get better? Be the change. Don't expect others to change when you can't even change yourself, you weak-livered pansies.

God damn, I hate how feminism turns people into fucking victims.

>>8253583
I have never heard a rape joke (which is odd because I love black humor). I think they may be ok so long as it is making fun of rape, but not the victim. However making jokes about victims makes fun of them and I can definitely see how this would contribute to a "culture" of sorts.

>>8253443
Funny how men always take the rapist discussion so personal.

Aside from Tumblr feminists, noone literally claims that 'every guy is a potential rapist'. But we know that there are rapists among men (and women). Doesn't mean you are a rapist, doesn't mean any of your friends would ever rape someone, but there are people out there who do.

So the problem isn't that 'all men are rapists', the problem is 'we don't know which men are rapists'. We don't know the intentions of the stranger touching us. Might be an innocent guy with poor social skills who doesn't realize he's acting creepy, but it could also be an egotistical jerk who won't shy away from violence to get what he wants.

I can see why some people don't know what to do in those situations. If you call out the jerk, he might harm you. If you call out the innocent guy, you'll be "that one bitch who thinks every guy is a rapist". And if you don't say anything, it's your own fault you got raped.

>>8250150
none of this makes sense because those people still don't deserve to be mugged or assaulted just because you're jealous or booty bamboozled
it's also against the law

>>8253612
But it influences crime

>>8250269
Whenever someone says this I wonder if they're thinking about those of us who have severe PTSD from prior attacks. I most certainly should not carry a handgun.

The way its written emphasises the play with me part and sort of makes me think she actually wants them to play with her.

>>8252681
See I'm in the US near a major city and ignoring it works a fair amount of the time but I've also had men follow me in broad daylight at least 15 times in the last 5 years. I'm a rape survivor and it's honestly terrifying. Of course people think it's not this common but I think it depends on where you live. This is a really bad area.
That said. I don't dress in anything too flashy when going out alone because I want to protect myself. People who call those suggesting it out on 'victim blaming' imply that one can't give any suggestion without claiming it's their fault. It's not, but that doesn't mean they are helpless.
tldr; I think the concept has been greatly misconstrued - there is a real issue under it all to address, but that doesn't mean women shouldn't protect themselves because it's "unfair".

>>8253543
Oh man, I didn't see this! I'm in Australia.

Metal roris are best roris!

>>8250464
If you have a nice house and you don't have a security system installed then it's your fault if anything gets stolen.

>>8253130
You do get that it's the fact that you specify the race of the urban men that have harassed you that is making you look so redneck right? You think urban white dudes aren't JUST as bad? They tend to be worse because they have a bit more leeway. Especially if you're somewhere where saying it's the black and hispanic men is considered normal and not at all racist. Urban culture is a problem. It's a poor people thing there are only more black and hispanic people because they have a higher rate of being lower income.
Stop using unneeded descriptors and wondering why people think you mean something by it. It's not that hard to get.

>>8253698

Stop enabling burglary-culture, shitlord!

>>8253698
Thats not how that works.

>>8253705
Not that anon but if I say that I have personally only come across urban black dudes who have been assholes to me in public, that's not the same as denying that there are no white urban guys who ever do the same to anyone else. Why are you trying to push the redneck stereotype so hard? That won't discredit what anon said about their experience.

No offense to lolitas, but isn't this to be expected? I get that lolita is a way of self-expression, but some people simply won't change the way they think. Lolitas are also a minority and people are reluctant to change their minds for that reason, too.

>>8253513
>they need to be shamed for not doing so
I really don't think that's the right idea, I think victims need to be able to see that something can come of them making reports (although in too many cases nothing will) and be empowered by it. I know a guy that was raped as a child and he knows the name of his rapist since it was his childhood doctor, a figure his parents trusted. Since he never reported him or told anyone until he was an adult what happened (and his parents still don't know, he still thinks that his parents won't believe him), that man may have gone on to do the same thing to other children, which is heartbreaking. When he told me that he knew this man's name, I urged him and urged him to come forward, but even now he's obviously so scared that he just shuts down. He just CAN'T report this guy and he can't bring himself to tell even the people he cares about any details that could let them do it. If I were ever raped I know that I would need to report it, but I haven't been raped, so how can I make decisions for someone that has? It really tears at me.

>>8250106
Well, she said "hit on", not that they were persistently creepy or harassed her or catcalled her. Sometimes it surprises me when dudes hit on me, and it's frustrating if it happens often (I'm a lesbian so it's always unwanted), but I don't see a problem if it's "Would you like to come for a coffee sometime?" or asking to swap numbers, as long as they drop it when I decline. Granted, there are always guys that will not fucking drop it/think it's their job to turn me, and they suck, but I'm not bothered by extra attention from respectful guys around my age even if they're unattractive.

>>8254015
It makes me feel sorta bad because I don't like rejecting people, especially if they're nice (most of them are). The bad feeling is all me though, I'm not going to project it on someone else and blame them for it, I'm just sensitive. I also feel bad when I do things like play an evil character in games like Fable or KOTOR, so yeah. The one demon door where I had to do an act of great evil in front of it always killed me.

>>8250159
>Alternative fashions will always gather perceptions by normies that it must have something to do with sex (equating goths with BDSM enthusiasts, equating lolitas with sugar babies, etc. etc.).
>Usually the people who make these assumptions are also the same people who will be butthurt when you rebuke their advances and explain to them like an adult that their assumptions are wrong.
This is very true. I've had a lot of inappropriate comments from guys while wearing goth clothing, some rude and inappropriate but somewhat understandable that they might think it's a fetish thing since these things are common fetishwear (pleather/PVC leggings, corsets, tall black boots with huge heels) some genuinely weird "hurr durr she's wearing black so she must be into S&M". Probably more than in lolita actually.

>>8250266
I think she's talking about people touching clothes without asking, which I know a fuckton of people have experienced. Stuff like pulling up your skirt to see what you're wearing underneath it/how it sticks out so much.

>>8254020
I like wearing oddly colored lipsticks, and that's how I found out that a good amount of guys have some sort of fetish for that (they would specifically point it out while hitting on me). Not that I blame them, I do too.

>>8250433
Openly staring at someone's boobs is inappropriate in any normal context and creeps will often use it as an "ha ha whatcha gonna do about it?" intimidation thing where they know it's making you uncomfortable but get a kick out of knowing you can't do shit. It's not rape but it's not an innocent action.

>>8252776
I agree with most of this but
>assuming if it's the daytime there will always be lots of people around
There are always places, even in the day, where it's deserted or nearly deserted (I don't even mean like remote parking lots, a street that normally has a few people on it might be coincidentally empty for a while). This is why I've had more scary experiences in a largeish town near me than in the centre of the big city - in the latter there are always others around, in the former there aren't. You can't avoid areas that are quiet during the day and live a normal life, but you're at risk in them.

Also,
>assuming others will even help rather than pretend not to notice what's happening to avoid a confrontation
I don't think it would happen now I'm an adult, but I had a lot of experiences like this when I was younger. Eg when I was 12 and wearing my school uniform (so obviously underage, and don't say it was short and seductive because I was wearing baggy trousers) on the bus at about five o'clock, I had a much older guy hit on me persistently even when I rejected, clearly told him to leave me alone, and tried to ignore him. There were other people on the bus who could hear and none of them did shit. After twenty minutes another guy got on and sat near us, and when the creep tried to ask me for sex again he heard him and told him to leave me alone, but as soon as that guy got off the creep started again and no-one intervened. I was terrified of being followed home and actually very lucky he didn't (I was hoping creepy dude was gonna get off at a bus station enough route, but he stayed on...until I got scared enough that I moved right down the front next to a woman that had got on and he suddenly got off, even though the bus had been waiting there five or ten minutes already so if he had no ill-intention he'd have got off before. I think if I had got off at that stop he'd have followed me).

>>8254079

I've been in situations where classmates have actually pushed me into creepy guys on purpose, so I feel you bro. I know the bystander effect is exaggerated, but honestly, there are not a lot of people who will come out and do the right thing even if they can see you're in a vulnerable situation, and I learned the hard way that way.

And before anyone asks, no, I don't hang out much with these people anymore. Thank fuck I have my own circle of friends now.

>>8253443
Where did I say "every guy is a potential rapist"

I said a guy is generally stronger and can physically overpower most girls even if the guy is a similar weight and height.

Nowhere is any of what you're saying relevant to my post of why I would not find it just "annoying" when guys try to touch me inappropriately without consent or aggressively hit on me. It's a much more dangerous situation for the average woman than the average man where this situation is less dangerous on average because yeah, the average guy is stronger than the average girl

>>8252976
I live in Britain and if you don't count a handful of occasions with teenage boys when I was also a teenager, and off-duty soldiers (which was actually very scary, fuck our army, in what universe do they think a dozen strong trained 18-21-year-old men catcalling a fucking twelve-year-old isn't horribly intimidating?) I've never been catcalled. I've had a ton of creepy and near-rape experiences, been followed etc, but not catcalled. According to my mum, it used to be common when she was younger, and she used to dread walking past building sites because builders would always make comments, but now that never happens because they changed the law to make it actually illegal to do that or something? Like if workmen are doing that and someone complains to the company they'll be in a ton of shit. Disclaimer that I don't live in London, but I've spent a lot of time in other cities and large towns and (grew up in a town with a population of 16k).

>>8253524
nigga rape culture is like when people say "oh well she's a slut anyways, she's probably lying" or "she just regrets the sex" "it's not rape because they're together and it's not like he was beating her or whatever"
The problem in this case isn't the action, but the general attitude of the public towards anyone who wasn't outright violently raped with mounds of evidence.

>>8254116

That's not rape culture though, you're literally describing the judicial process for every crime. You need enough evidence to prove without a doubt that the defendent is guilty, that's how it fucking works.

The judicial system is corrupt, but the method is actually fine. The corruption comes in when people overlook the method.

Jesus fuck I hate it when people are like "you don't need an overwhelming amount of evidence to convict someone!" Because if you don't, you have no fucking idea what the implications are brother.

>>8252976
I live in Serbia (Belgrade, the most densely populated capital in this part of Europe as a matter of fact) and I've honest to god never been catcalled. People here only say something when you're wearing weird shit but even then it's underage bydlos laughing at you and not hitting on you. And we get all sorts of street performers, promoters, flash mobs, hipsters and troubadours all the time so people even got used to that (You still wouldn't want to live here, though).

My friend got catcalled once, but he's a 2m tall Slav-looking dude with (then) long blond hair so I don't know what that says about us. Violence there's a lot more of, murder mostly in Kosovo.

>>8252977
>>8253009
This is why when /r9k/ types try to insist that rape is a super rare issue I laugh it off. Every adult woman I know has a story of being assaulted and nearly raped, although I've not had anyone tell me they were actually raped, and I'm from a super middle class background with no history of abuse. When I got close to 18 all the female members of my family started telling me this shit to warn me to be careful. Mum got invited to a guy's house when she was a teenager, told it was a group event and his parents would be home, but when she got there his parents were out and the rest of the group had been told a later time and he basically kept making advances then when she refused physically chased her round the house until another member of the group turned up early and saved her. Grandma has two experiences of attempted street rape including one guy who tackled her to the floor, but she was wearing a huge-ass signet ring, punched him in the eye and ran for the police. Aunt got groped and assaulted while working as an au pair. Etc etc.

>>8254131
No, I'm referring to the public attitude, not the criminal/judicial attitude, stop implying I am. You need evidence to convict someone and it needs to stay that way, but not all rapes leave evidence so when you have friends and family blaming the victim or not supporting them it causes a lot of problems

>>8254131

I should add though that 'she was a slut and asking for it' is NOT the right attitude to have. Unfortunately though, a lot of arguments in law are set up to defame someone's character to insinuate that they may be lying. I was listening to a podcast the other day, in which they cited a high school student not telling his parents he was going to prom as evidence of psychopathic behavior. It's fucked up. I'm not a lawyer though, so maybe I'm misinterpretating that, but that's not an uncommon argument to here regarding anything in general.

I still wouldn't cateogrise it as rape culture though. We have all sorts of fucked up views on rape, but all in all, in western culture, rape has become a pretty terrible crime with terrible implications. It is in no way glorified or made out to be a normal occurrance.

>>8254141

Ah fair enough, sorry for misinterprating your argument. You make a fair point there, and it is fucked up for the victim themselves even when the evidence is out there.

>>8253124
Holy shit that sounds painful.

But seriously though, how can you actually know if a girl has been raped?
Check your dick for blood, that's how!

>>8254142
Except it is a very typical attitude. You're not going to go on the street and hear people admit to it if you ask them, but it's most definitely there. Also the general attitude has definitely shifted to "Unless there's mounds of evidence she's a lying bitch" which is fucked up.

Again I'm not talking about legalities or conviction so it's better to leave it out.

>>8254154
see, that's black comedy. Not that shirt. That's actually a joke with a pattern, not an ironic t-shirt that's the equivalent of those stay calm shirts

>>8253253
I was thinking that too.

>>8254155
But it genuinely happens a lot. My country's police had to issue a notice on their Facebook page to ask all the girls to stop calling in with fake rape accusations early in the morning when they wake up at some guy's place after getting shitfaced and fucking him the previous night, and then regret that they did so.
A lot of them are repeat offenders as well and then they have to run investigations for each and every one of them, usually find out from their friends that SHE was hitting on HIM or that she did not in any way object to the idea of shagging in the club toilet, and drop the case.

>>8254166
Hey and in my country and other countries it's not at all common. Also it's why investigators have to do their jobs and find out who is lying and why they lied.

>>8254158

I normally don't like making rape jokes, tbh.

But this thread was asking for it.

>>8253253
Depends. Here in Belgium the cat-callers (Moroccans) are a lot tamer than that.
>Hey, what's your name?
>Can I have your number?
>Would you like to go for a drink with me? (No) But whyyyy?
>Where are you going? Can I come with you?
etc

Yet some girls here still whine about it. Like I get if someone's calling you a dirty whore, but I've never had that happen in the 20+ years I've lived here.

>>8254166
And again, please stop trying to change the subject towards the police and convictions. It's not what my argument is about. My argument is about the general public and attitudes towards people who aren't in "ideal circumstances" for the claim. It's actually much more common for people to not go forward because they're afraid of being called liars.
You can say what you want of your area, but that doesn't make it a common occurrence else where

>>8254184
At least it was an actual joke, even if tasteless

>>8254192

My girlfriend actually hates rape jokes, she told me about a bad grape experience she had in college.

There were a bunch of them.

>>8254186
That doesn't sound scary, but it does sound annoying as shit. It'd make me want to punch the whininess out of them, but punching people just because they're annoying is wrong so I'd end up just stewing in my annoyance.

>>8254191
It does because a lot of women do cry rape when they dislike a guy or regret fucking him
My point was that it wasn't uncommon, like you claim it is

>>8254196
If every annoying person sets you off that much I'm starting to wonder how they haven't put you in prison yet

>>8254209
It is uncommon, it happens but it's not as common in comparison anon, please show me that statistics.
The main reason you see that shit in the news a significant amount of time is because it's a hot topic and "interesting".

>>8253993
No, they need to report it. Doesn't matter how fucking scared you are.

>>8250111
I think the same thing

>>8254223
Statistics don't show anything in either case

>>8254376
Ok so then you get your information that false rape cases are really common from headlines and leddit?

>>8254211
I was sexually assaulted by a whiny bastard like that after weeks of telling him no, so it sets me off.

>>8254386
No, from my local police who say that women call in with false rape charges all the time? Learn how to read or read it for yourself if you can speak Finnish

>>8254399

They're patriarchial, slut shaming misogynists who help propagate rape culture, you internalized misogynist.

>>8254426
Idk, I've heard plenty of stories of women threatening to call rape if a dude won't have sex with her or does something non-sexual to piss her off. It's the best way for a woman to hurt a man.

>>8254436
I've heard plenty of stories from friends about women who threatened to spread rumors that they were raped by a dude if the dude wouldn't have sex with them, but none of these women ever threatened to go to the police. It's even happened to my husband, and one of those women even drugged him and raped him after her threats didn't work and another one does it so often that she's accused practically half the men in our con circle. Watch out for con crazies I still give people the benefit of the doubt with rape accusations, though. I'd rather treat a person sympathetically and find out they're a liar than be a dick to somebody that was actually hurt.

>>8253744
>>8253717
The point is that YOU need to compensate for other people's actions. If you don't then bad things are going to happen, wither you like it or not.

>>8253513
Rape victims face enough shame. The reason why it's "too hard" to come forward and file a report is because of the horrible social stigma of being a rape victim. Rape victims also know that it is unlikely that their claim will taken seriously, the police may be disrespectful, etc.

>>8253524
Social progress is not inevitable, anon, it's not "just a matter of time." Women, LGBT and racial minorities have had to fight hard for the rights that they now have. Nowhere did I say that we could completely stop rapes from happening. If "rapists gonna rape" then we need to move away from shaming rape victims for being victimized and towards actually being productive and punishing rapists. Society doesn't just roll over and let crime happen because it's inevitable. There needs to be a cultural shift that allows victims to report rape safely and without stigma so that rapists can be prosecuted properly, the way criminals who have committed nonsexual crimes can be. Cultural shift =/= more legislation. It would certainly be a good step for the topic of rape to be brought up in sex education (what to do if it happens to you, what your resources are, how to fill out a police report, reassurance that it doesn't make you dirty/unlovable/worthless/etc but sex education in the US is total crap, so I'm not holding my breath) and for police to be more sensitive about this topic but mostly society needs to stop acting like being the victim of a rape is so shameful that you should never talk to anyone about it.

It's contradictory to say that complaining about rape culture is just "squawking" and that it is also a deeply ingrained cultural problem.

>>8253565
Just because people don't say that rape is acceptable doesn't mean they don't think it. Just like there's plenty of people who say "I'm not a racist but I hate niggers, blacks are all so lazy and entitled." It's not socially acceptable to say you approve of rape, so you just redefine rape so that it doesn't include rape that you approve of. People could say "rape is horrible" but "it's not rape if we're dating or if she's unconscious or if she kissed me/looked at me/came over to my house earlier" or "women say 'no' and don't really mean it, it's not rape unless she tries to push you off, it's not rape unless she tries HARD to push you off, it's not rape unless she tries to punch you in the face." Plenty of people find it much less distasteful if you just "convince her" or "take advantage" or are "a little rough." Often it's just a gentler, nicer way of saying rape,

>>8254142
>>8254209
While false rape accusations do happen and are damaging in themselves almost none gets convicted on a false rape claim. Because there needs to be visible evidence of a struggle in most cases.Imagine a Fatal Attraction-esque scenario for one second: sleazehound uses woman for sex, has no real understanding between himself and her so as soon as he gets what he wants he drops her like a hot potato and goes back to his gf/wife. No explanation, no more "sucking up" bc what would be the point of treating a human being with dignity and respect now? Say she is pissed off for being used and doesn't like the guy/feels degraded by the experience? What would the easiest way to wound him back? Accuse him of rape. His significant other now knows and the sleazehound's rep is ruined. I'm willing to bet guys like said sleazehound get accused falsely the most. They emotionally abuse women and none does anything about it.

> FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. The unfounded rate is higher for forcible rape than for any other Index crime. The average rate of unfounded reports for Index crimes is 2%. [96] "Unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation [97] and as Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner explains,

So if a woman is paralyzed with fear during the rape that's not grounds enough for declaring the rape to be a rape.

>>8254399
Link?

How the heck did the mods leave this here?

>>8254601
>implying that crazy "feminists" haven't already redefined rape
FB TulunaduNews/videos/956312981066582/

>>8254627
>crazy feminists

There u go again with the slander

Just b/c some of this is too radical for you, that doesn't mean that it's invalid or due to misconception.

>>8254640
bye
Anyone who thinks comparing a horrific act such as rape to someone calling someone else a rude name does not belong on 4chan. You will be raped all the time here,

stupid bitch.

>>8254426
>buzzword buzzword buzzword
read a book

>>8254603
Why is that woman sleeping with a married man in the first place?
Why doesn't she just call the wife?

>>8254138
Basically this
Anyone who says rape is rare doesn't talk to women. That and I think women are more likely to tell their female friends instead of guys. It's like this whole world exists that guys just have no clue about.

>>8254724
Well duh. We can't be aware of a world that only exists in your head.

>>8254457
And no one reports her to the police why exactly?

>>8254665
it was a hypothetical scenario, anon

And why did the guy cheat on his wife? Shouldn't that be asked first?

>>8254761

Ideally both questions should be asked at the same time.

>>8254650

>>8254748
Because it would be a waste of time since police and courts are inherently biased towards women meaning she'd never actually get in any trouble.

>>8254770
the kneejerk reaction to sic the police on anyone making threats is so typical of someone living in today's police state

women are not treated more sympathetically by the police at fucking all, as evidenced by the news reports of police tazing an unarmed pregnant woman to death and not not being any less conscienceless with others. Women on men rapes are not as typical as the reverse but they are being taken more seriously now. women still are far less violent and physically strong than men on average. I don't understand where this misconception that women on men assaults only get a slap on the wrist comes from. Afaik it's usually attractive women that are given lighter sentences/a slap on the writs for their crimes. Maybe you should direct your resentment at them.

>>8254603
>false accusation aren't even that bad and any man it happens to is probably a bad person anyways and deserves it happening to

Funny how the same people that flip their shit if somebody says rape isn't so bad and complains about "victim blaming" turn around and do essentially the exact same thing as soon as the victim is a man and see no issue with it.

>>8254799

Mmm yeah attractive people privilege now you're talking.

>>8254761
it should, it's not an either or situation
if you go for a married man knowingly and then BAWW when he doesn't leave his family to be with you, you deserve the shit you get just as much tbh
same goes for reversed roles, before you try to make it into a gender thing

>>8254799
>I don't understand where this misconception that women on men assaults only get a slap on the wrist comes from

Probably from observing reality, but you probably don't do much of that over on tumblr or your other feminist spheres so its unsurprising you would think its just a "misconception"

>>8254816
>>8254816
if you participate in hookup culture and are too immature to be smart about it, you are in a similar position to someone who compromises themselves by getting drunk alone in a shady place full of strange men, having sex you do not recall and regretting it.

You may not deserve it but you sure af aren't helping yourself. Of course bad things happen even to those who are careful bc ppl are assholes sometimes but if some of the fucks who objectify and shame women while taking advantage of them aren't gonna get the message that they're being stupid assholes until they get accused of rape and the like. And still yet, they don't fucking understand that they're pieces of shit.

>>8254846
Has anyone ever told you that you're a massive cunt and extremely misandrist?

Cause you are.

>>8254862

Careful, you might actually blow her ego up a little by calling her a misandrist.

>>8254862

>>8254846
If a woman chooses to enter a relationship with a man who is married, she already knows he is unfaithful to another person he promised to be faithful to, so why she would expect him to be faithful to her is beyond me.
Having sex with someone and then saying "I don't love you anymore, bye" is not rape. Its being an asshole, but if you consent to something you cannot change your mind afterwards and say "I was raped because I didn't realise their true intentions"

>>8254888
did u really just completely miss the point or...

>>8254888
You misunderstand the misandrist cunt. She isn't saying she thinks its rape. She saying she thinks its totally OK and justified for a woman to accuse a man of rape and for him to suffer all the accompanied problems just because he hurt her feelings.

>>8254900
Oh fuck her. Can we just not respond to this shitty troll?

>>8254900
>>8254900
it's not an isolated incident tho

it's a symptom of broader sexism and double standards and shit

so yeah, i don't give a fuck if a man is falsely accused of rape, just as men are largely unapologetic about having subjugated women for centuries. Retribution's long overdue.

>>8254924

I like how tumblr feminism is basically Catholicism with the whole 'you are responsible for your ancestor's sins repent heathen repent.'

Barring that this is a shitty troll, I mean, there's the whole idea of privilege which is basically the original sin of the modern world.

It's kind of fasinating, actually.

>>8254918
men are scum, anon

if you haven't come top this realization yet, you haven't been paying attention

>>8254900
And these same people are confused and outraged about society growing steadily more and more suspicious of all rape accusations.

>>8254959
But a man is a rapist by definition, anon! All men r rapists so u need to show them theyre wrong if they say otherwise.

>>8254938
Should we disregard the fact that men have been subjugating women for centuries, then? Did witch hunts never happen in your eyes?

Men are at the very least major supporters of the oppression and exploitation of women.

If you want to move past these sophomoric tactics..we can get real serious about this.

>>8254976
Yeah because it didn't happen.

>>8254983
Disgruntled and confused porn users demanded the hard research data, so I went into the basement to find my dusty copy of Zillmann and Bryant’s book. It will take me a while to screenshot, caption, and post it all.

The two photos above reference a 1982 experiment which measured the effects of prolonged pornography consumption on test subjects’ recommendations for rapist prison terms.

Male and female subjects were divided into three groups and exposed to either 6 regular films (control group), 3 regular films and 3 porn films (intermediate exposure), or 6 porn films (massive exposure).

Three weeks later, they took a variety of questionnaires and inventories. One asked them to recommend the prison sentence for a hypothetical rapist. The chart above shows the difference in what they recommended by group.

Conclusion: both men and women exposed to porn recommended reduced sentencing for rapists compared to those in the control group.

Consider that in 1982, watching 6 porn films was considered “massive exposure.”

Also consider whether the judge and or jury members deciding your rapist’s fate may have watched more than 6 or more porn films.

Source: Zillmann and Bryant, “Pornography: Research Advances and Policy Considerations.” 1989

>>8255009

“So, I ask to the women who are still not sure about rape culture, patriarchy, or male supremacy, if you see the problem behind a culture in which “no” is punishable, but where failure to say “no” makes any violation of your personhood your own fault. When you sit back for a moment and think to yourself that surely you can say no to men, and that I am blowing things way out of proportion, then at least do this test within your own life: Start saying No more often when No is what you really want to say. Establish firm boundaries with men and do not let up. See if the male you are saying no to immediately stops and respects your boundary, or if his automatic response, reflexive—as though he’s been learning how to do this since he was a boy, as though he sees no other response more logical than this—is to attempt to do what you have just asked him not to do to you. Notice how you feel when telling a man “no” as well. Do you feel butterflies in your stomach? Do you feel guilty (denying him his right of access to you)? Do you feel mean? Do you feel unsure at all as to whether or not you have the right to tell him no? It is very easy to feel that men are not so bad when you are still making sure to give them what they want.”
—
https://wwomenwwarriors.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/looking-male-supremacists-dead-in-their-dead-eyes-the-boner-busters-takedown/

>>8255009
I wasn't aware internet porn has existed for centuries.

Nor do I see how any of that had to do these alleged centuries of oppression and exploitation, and even less how it somehow justifies an innocent non-rapist man being treated like a rapist.

>>8255039
the current paradigm is heavily influenced by the sexism and misogyny that occurred unabated during the centuries of male supremacy.

you're a part of the problem if u don't acknowledge this

>>8255071
internet-know a lot of anarcho-communists and other assorted leftists who subscribe to the liberal positions on porn and prostitution. It’s pretty infuriating, because they tend to acknowledge that at least 90% of the time, both porn and prostitution are filled with rape and violence, and then they turn around and say that the principle of “choice” precludes any sort of political critique of either. They’re basically saying that any analysis should be centered on some hypothetical model that only exists in their heads, that’s completely abstracted away from any of the material realities experienced by prostituted women.

And they don’t reason the same way about anything else, either. Like, when some social democrat brings up a worker-owned business, they’ll point out how it doesn’t actually present any kind of serious threat to capitalism, but if you try to tell them that the existence of wealthy, white women who love their burlesque classes doesn’t do anything about the misogyny inherent to prostitution, they just brush it off. Any political analysis that tries to challenge the principle of male sexual access to women is rejected. It’s dudes prioritising their own orgasms over ending male supremacy.

-tumblr user ultraleftist

>>8255086
For younger women who have grown up with the internet, opposing all pornography may sound unthinkable. We have grown up in an environment so saturated with pornography, that we can barely imagine sex without it.

For women of all ages, learning to love and accept our bodies is a challenge. Throughout history, male-dominated societies have often set strict rules around sex. The punishments for breaking these rules have often been solely or disproportionately doled out to women, effectively making it impossible for us to have sex on our own terms. No doubt the idea of ‘feminist porn’ appeals to our desire for a taste of sexual freedom.

But is ‘sexual freedom’ really just reducible to more sex, no matter the circumstances?

‘I did coke occasionally, but I was mostly a drinker. And then I got into painkillers – those are really popular in the industry, especially for women that do a lot of anal. And I smoked a whole lot of weed, too. I wouldn’t have been able to do [porn] otherwise. You can’t do that stuff sober,’ Belmond recalls.

This is not a picture of a sexually liberated woman. It is, in fact, the picture of a woman who must lay back and think of England in order to ‘endure’ sex. Those who denounce anti-porn feminism as ‘puritanical’ have ignored the fact that pornographers do exactly what the Puritans did: deny women sexual self-determination.

"
from tumblr use fucknopornblogs

I'm confused. Is somebody posting quotes from tumble as a joke to laugh at how stupid they are, or do they think they're making actual points.

>>8254842
Give me sources, not anecdotal evidence.

I require multiple sources and tangible evidence.