/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

There's a tall girl thread here you could check out >>7959238

Sort of related.

I get frustrated when I wear a JSK in a casual style and get abused or posted to cgl because I'm not wearing a petticoat.

Bit of background: I was wearing Magic Potions Magic Library JSK, with a regular gothic outfit inc. calf-high platform vinyl boots, lacy black stockings, a black fitted military style coat (knee length), trad-goth makeup, lace shirt and some vinyl hair accessories (not like a headeater KC or anything).

Next minute, I get contacted from a comm-leader politely (and then not so politely) letting me know that what I was wearing wasn't lolita, and that I should wear a petticoat and wear appropriate co-ordinate items for it to be so. I know it wasn't lolita (which I told her, but it was not an appropriate response. Apparently I was in fact trying to sabotage the name of lolita and misrepresent the community.), I was going out of my way to make it not lolita, its just a dress that looks cool with goth stuff.

I wasn't even trying to be lolita, so why the abuse? Lolitas are constantly saying “just because its brand doesn't mean its lolita” in regards to salopettes and short skirts that the brands release. How about “just because its released by a lolita store doesn't mean it needs to be worn in lolita -.-”

>>7981829
wow u even SOUND ita. That coord sounds like the most painful gawffick thing ever. Someone post it. Also if u posted to ur comm then u deserved it.

>Bbbut its not /meant/ to be lolita!

If you got posted to the ita thread it would have been horrible even if it wasn't lolita. Nobody posts good otome or goth in there because its not lolita, only because its painful to look at.

>>7981829
I sort of feel this?

I have a couple jumperskirts that I like to wear casually without a petticoat, and I'm nervous about being judged by any potential passing lolitas on the street for it. That's a little crazy, right? I haven't had a negative experience, but there are lolitas that live in my city/attend my school, so... It could happen, if they're that type of person.

>>7981829
....anon, did you wear it to a meet? Because you conveniently left out how the comm leader saw you in this outfit.

>>7981756
Sounds like you want to be something other than lolita, you also sound mad autistic.
>>7981829
You probably looked like shit. From the sounds of it you don't know what lolita or goth look like.

>>7981858
i feel this feel.
not right now because winter, but i live in Houston and theres a large comm here, but since i wear it almost year-round i dont really have the patience for that petticoat shit when its 105° out

>>7981858
What the fuck is that cat looking at

Length. I'm not even really that tall, just 5'4". But I have a short torso and I'm all leg. So I look way taller than I actually am in photos by myself, unless I'm with people who are shorter and I look gargantuan. But yeah, almost everything by AP is above my knees. I've only had luck with IW, Meta and the few Baby pieces I've owned, but I own mostly AP and enjoy it the most. I have nice legs and I don't mind showing them off, but you know, with the typical OTKs or tights and proper coverage. It doesn't bother me that much, but it probably rustles people's jimmies.

Sometimes I wear some of my chiffon dresses without pettis out casually, simply because it takes up less space and it flows decently without one without looking limp.

>>7981829
Petticoats just make skirts look better man. I'm not even a lolita but I bust out my miniskirt length petticoat I sewed for cosplay to use in my casual skirts in dresses.
You're just using the wrong petticoat for casual if petticoats bother you so hard, no point leaving out the petticoat if you're going to dress up with lolita pieces that look limp and sad without support.

>>7981967
A dude in a Darth Maul mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odsvok0xf5s

>>7981852
Lol so sandy

I don't wear bloomers

Sometimes when i go to college I'll just wear a dress for a toned down outfit with no petti.

>>7981911
how does she sound autistic exactly?

>>7981907
I wore it to college, a couple of the girls from my comm go to the same one but are in different degrees. Most of the people in my comm are great but some of them are drama mongers and I met them for lunch that day (not a mini meet or anything, just hangout. so pretty sure they snapped a pick or something)

For the love of gawd I would not wear this to a meet and then complain about it if I got raped for it.

>>7981911
Go right on ahead and tell cgl exactly what a fashion style + a music genre + literary genre + state of mind/ way of thinking looks like exactly. You sound like a baby bat who has just started to dress passable who deals with their inferiority by pretending that their definition of goth is the new fucking Gothic Charm School.

Unless you can see into this girls mind somehow, you can't even say if she is goth or not so just leave, butthurt-chan.

>>7981950
i'd expect some of the comm members to be stingy about it or feel disgraced seeing that and get in your face (or behind your back) but i know that a lot members would probably be very understanding, seeing as theyre suffering the same weather too. honestly if i saw you i'd just be so excited encountering someone that was into the same fashion as i am.

>>7981829
>>7982127
>-.-”
>gawd
>misusing the word rape and tossing it in casual conversation so that you can make it abundantly clear that you want to feel victimized

Christ, I'm so glad you're not in my comm. The outfit you described sounds embarrassing as fuck and I wouldn't ever want to be seen with you, let alone listen to you talk like a 14-year-old edgequeen.

>>7981829
>>7981858
I get this too. I spend all my money of lolita, so I don't have much normal fag wear, so when I go out in a lolita dress that's sort of passable as just a nice 'normal peoples' dress without a petti I'm constantly paranoid of getting seen by other community members and being ridiculed. Cause I would probably judge another lolita for doing it so I guess its just a realistic expectation to have.

I think the internet has ruined communities a little. So many horror stories and not enough good stories has made us paranoid. But then again those stories had to be made by someone.

>>7981981
I have to travel to work 2 hours each way everyday (hopefully not for much longer). Hypothetically speaking, if I didn't have normal fag clothing to wear to work, there is no way I would wear even a small petticoat with any skirts, they are just a pain in the butt sometimes. they are also hot, take up space on public transport (and in super markets, potentially knocking things of shelves), sometimes scratchy, and with shorter skirts if you go up stairs or escalators its easier for people behind you to see up your skirt (or just creeps in general) so you would have to wear bloomers as well, adding to the list of potential annoyances.

for short outings yeah but otherwise, definitely not.

>>7982144
I think your reading a bit too far into that. Also what is so "edge-queen" about what she was saying?

What she said: "I was just wearing a lolita dress casually, why is this such a travesty?"

What you read: "I'm so fucking cool, look at me challenging the rules, coolest person, fuck traditionalism, everyone should dress like me. If they got a problem they just jealous, so gawwfick".

Even if her outfit was horrible, which it sounds like it was, that's not the point of the story. The point was that she was wearing a lolita dress in a non-lolita outfit and she got torn to shreds for it. Perhaps you should address that instead of getting sandy at her use of language and colloquialisms.

I never wear bloomers I usually just wear cute pajama shorts instead.

>>7982144
Not poster that your talking about, just curious.

"The English word rape retains the Latin meaning in literary language, but the meaning is obscured by the more current meaning of "sexual violation". The word is akin to rapine, rapture, raptor, rapacious and ravish, and referred to the more general violations, such as looting, destruction, and capture of citizens, that are inflicted upon a town or country during war, e.g. the Rape of Nanking. The Oxford English Dictionary gives the definition "the act of carrying away a person, especially a woman, by force" besides the more general "the act of taking anything by force" (marked as obsolete) and the more specific "violation or ravishing of a woman.""

So although it is a misuse of a word, its not a misuse in the way you are saying. Unless you know the actual meaning of a word, you should probably not be schooling people on it or at least Wiki it first.

>>7982203
I don't think anyone nowadys thinkgs a requirement to wear bloomers. It's not like anyone's gunna know if your wearing them or not anyways

>>7982206
I'm glad I'm not the only one!

>>7982132
Lol, state of mind/way of thinking.
Run along baby bat and take your shitty dress sense with you.

I hate wearing wigs. They are so annoying and never feel comfertable. I've bought cheap wigs, expensive wigs, proper lolita wigs and even real hair wigs and still they are just plain annoying. I've been called Ita for not wearing one. I wish it was okay to just wear my own hair but unfortunately, my natural hair is quite thin and whispy, But i always have it dyed baby pink so it actually suits my sweeter pieces.

>>7982588
You can have thin hair and still look good with your natural hair. Maybe it is that you didn't style it nicely with it or you had bangs that looked bad as often happens with thin hair. I would recommend clip on bangs for thin hair. Also dying your hair will thin it out so that probably doesn't help your situation.

>>7982204
>Unless you know the actual meaning of a word, you should probably not be schooling people on it or at least Wiki it first
>Let me lecture you about a word with a very obvious meaning by pulling some linguistic history shit I just goohled

Go ahead and tell people you were "raped" by your parents as a child when you're talking about being "carried away by force". Rape victims will love this.

>Cat ears=instant ita
This idea is really only held so strongly because 99% of coords that involve cat ears are terrible and ita as fuck. However, there are a decent number of examples of lovely coords with cat ears that you would have to be extremely stubborn to say aren't lolita. Sure, they technically are cosplay by definition, but that brings me to the next bullshit ruru.
>Cosplay and lolita are mutually exclusive
The most common thing people say against accessories like animal ears is that thy turn a coord into cosplay and thus it officially is no longer lolita. However, there's tons of lolita acceptable cosplay that no one say anything about; pirate lolita, hime lolita, sailor lolita, Little Red Riding Hood themed outfits, Alice themed outfits, the list goes on. These are all technically cosplay and no one says anything, so why can't people wear cat ears?
>Ita=not lolita
Most lolitas across the board have a bit of a misconception of what "ita" truly means. People equate "ita" with meaning "not lolita", when really it just refers to anything bad looking. A dress can be ita and actually lolita. There's no true definition of what make a lolita dress other than silhouette. Those cheap lacemonsters are mostly technically lolita, even though they're awful and no one should ever wear them.
>Bloomers
Fuck bloomers, they are so annoying. No one is going to see them anyway, so I don't see how they're so strongly considered mandatory. In 7 years of wearing lolita, I've never needed them, no one's ever come close to seeing my panties. Also, they don't help negating the ageplay misconception.

>>7982698
>Fuck bloomers, they are so annoying
I love bloomers, I think it depends on whether you wear thights or socks. I always wear thights and the bloomers actually help them stay up. Also, they keep your butt warm in the winter. And if you're at home at the end of the day and want to take your JSK off for a while you can run around in your bloomers without being naked (as in normalfag eyes).
I actually wear them with some of my other dresses that are a little shorter. This way I don't have to worry about windy days and can sit a little more freely. I always used to wear a second pair of pants over my thights to keep them up, bloomers are less embarassing now.

>>7982698
I second the thing about cosplay so hard. If a girl can dress like a pirate and call it lolita without question, why is it taboo for me to wear cute cat ears with my Cat's Tea Party JSK? It's so stupid.

I disagree about the word ita, though. To me, horrible quality means it's not lolita, so I do see ita as meaning not lolita as well as bad.

>>7982588
Are you sure you were called ita because your hair is thin and not because it's dyed? A lot of people consider any form of unnaturally dyed hair ita. If they said it was ita just because it's thin that's stupid and you shouldn't listen to them if you hate wearing wigs that much.

Have you tried hair extensions, though? Clip in ones are really fun and they're really easy to put on once you're used to it. I'm not too keen on wearing wigs in lolita, either, but I looooove extensions.

Not something I do myself because I enjoy looking at and reading about lolita but don't actually wear it, but I think a lot of JSKs actually would look super cute worn without a blouse or anything. Like a sundress, you know.

>>7982849
It's mostly considered acceptable to wear a JSK without a blouse as long as bra straps don't show. Only especially uptight people take issue with it.

>>7982698
I just wear pajama shorts instead of bloomers

>>7982853

>>7982853
I must be uptight then because I think it generally looks like terrible if you aren't wearing a blouse.

>>7982863
Not that anon, but they're right that most lolitas are fine with it. It hasn't been that controversial for years now.

>>7982864
I think it depends on the JSK, personally. I think pic related would look fine without a blouse. I don't like to go without one, though.

>>7982762
Yeah it was mention specifically that my hair was too whispy for Lolita. I have been thinking of getting extent ions though which might help the problem.

>>7982858
there are cute af where did you get them?

I feel like as time goes on in lolita fashion I want to break fewer and fewer rules. Like, at first I would only do small, simple bows in my hair - til I realized it throws the proportions off. Used to do light poof - now I can't get enough poof, it's just a better silhouette. Used to be fine wearing normalfag mary janes and almond toe heels - now they make the outfit look wrong to me.
I do agree with dress length though, but who knows, mmay be I will change my mind on that on day too.

>>7982907
2nding

>>7982127
Were they all wearing proper lolita? Because that could be the cause of it.

Also sorry but there's girls in my comm who totally wear ita as fuck shit to meets and then complain because "it totally wasn't SUPPOSED to be lolita guys!". We actually had to make a rule that you have to ask the host first before wearing anything other than lolita or aristocrat because it was getting ridiculous.

>>7982206
I see them as kind of necessary unless you're wearing opaque tights or some kind of shorts. They keep your legs from getting irritated by pettis, and prevent pantyshots somewhat (unless someone's a bloomer fetishist I guess?) But yeah as long as you have something down there it works.

>>7982895
You can take them to a stylist to get them matched up into your hair. I find them really fun because you can have glorious long hair without having to deal with the not fun parts, like trying to wash all that or sleep on it and have to brush it out the next day.

The 'too much leg is slutty' rule.
I just don't care, as long as my skirt isn't shorter than mid thigh and it still holds the right shape, I'll wear ankle socks if I want to.

>>7982024
Bloomers aren't really part of the "rules."

>>7982204
>marked as obsolete

Well there you fucking go. The other meaning is obsolete. Words change over time, Rape has come to mean what most people think of as rape, because nobody uses it to mean the other meaning anymore.

Also, the Rape of Nanking contained an awful lot of actual rape.

>>7982867
>most lolitas

Oh dictionary anon, can you please inform this dingus of the definition of "most?"

"Most" lolitas are not okay with blouseless JSKs. "Most" lolitas will just keep their mouths shut and not say anything, because anyone who's ita enough to actually wear a JSK with no blouse is probably beyond saving anyway.

>>7982871
>>7982867
Every once in a blue moon a lolita looks ok without a blouse. But 99% of the times it's someone who is too new to buy one and looks just bad.
Otome is ok without a blouse. Or you can wear a cardigan or bolero instead of a blouse. Or if the jsk has something on the sleeve covering your shoulders you may be ok. But blouses are very necessary.

>>7983043
I'm not hardcore enough to break the rules

i feel guilty sometimes, but i essentially don't follow most rules on a day to day basis. So I'll wear a lighter petticoat, choose comfortable walking shoes over cute ones, wear a purse that's not the perfect fit but is more convenient, etc. My biggest offence is probably wearing t-shirts with a cardigan and skirt on my errand days. only time i give a shit about looking proper is at a meet or event.

>>7983056
It's totally impossible to not look like shit without a blouse underneath a JSK. No exceptions. None. Nada.

>>7983328
/I like it/

>>7983328
Well, that looks good without one

>>7982655
I wear my natural hair in coords and even though it is pretty fine, it's naturally curly and I use hot tools/spray to give it more definition/bounce/volume. People compliment it, so I assume it looks okay. Not to knock on wigs, though. I love wigs and will probably purchase one soon. It just never seemed necessary since my hair isn't a damaged, limp mess.

>>7983328
>>7983056

I liked the rule I saw posted about never letting bra straps or lingerie show when not wearing a blouse. They suggested silicone cups, strapless bras, or if those weren't an option, fashion tape to keep the straps from sliding out.

>>7983347
The comment you replied to was sarcastic and to show they were being sarcastic they provided an example of a good coord without a blouse.
Ya fucking autismo

Ankle socks with tights...

I admit I usually broke the blouse with JSK with a few determinate JSK which looks fine without it.
Also I don't wear bloomers, I usually wear a kind of long undies with frills and lace.

>>7982715
It's "tights".

I don't really break a whole lot of rules, but I tend to be (or feel like) the most under dressed person in my community. I've never been given any flack about wearing minimal make up or not giving into the OTT styles, so it's never been a big deal.

>>7983380
it's fucking cold in the winter, shit I do it all the time now because I don't want to freeze.
Put me in an ita thread idgaf my ass is going to be kawaii and cozy.

>>7983380
>>7983450
In winter I usually wear solid tights with cute patterns

>>7983328

>>7983380
I do this, but usually with more sheer tights (light polka dots or some faint pattern) with my socks. It just makes my legs look nicer and a little more covered/modest while still being cool enough in the summer.

Also, I wear peeptoe shoes with tights. Socks look ridiculously silly, but you need leg coverage?

>>7983475
Yeah but you need socks for your feet, or have fun ruining your shoes and having cold feet.

>>7982715
If i don't have sport shorts or bloomers in a dress or skirt i feel naked even with tights, also tights on me tend to go down so putting bloomers is essential. Also, no flashing panties. It's so cool the safety that give wearing a pair of bloomers under your skirt in case the skirt bend or flashes even with no wind.
>>7983380
But nude tights with ankle socks? I think they look really cute and you won't notice the tights.

>>7983328
this would be way too cluttered with a blouse.

>>7981756
>Give me a floor length AP gown please!
Careful what you wish for, anon.

>>7983482
I have that jsk and I think it's a little awkward worn sleeveless. I've been trying to figure out how to wear it with the sailor collar (it's detachable) - not sure if I should find a collarless shirt to wear underneath or find a bolero/cardigan to go with it

>>7983037
my hair is halfway between my boobs and my waist, and i have zero hassle with washing or brushing it. i dont use product, dont straighten my hair, and i will go to bed after forgetting to brush my hair all day and there is no pain or fuss detangling it in the morning

wait! this isnt a humblebrag. however, despite my hair being really long and hairdresses telling me its ridiculously thick/theres a lot of it, it always looks wispy and shapeless as hell (same thing happens when its short so its not about the length.)

but hearing u said this made me wonder ... is there anything i can do about this? cause now im wondering if maybe its so easy to detangle because its naturally oilier and maybe i need to cut out all the conditioner and stuff i use in the shower

>>7983526
Square neck blouse! They're great for any jsk with a neckline that would get in the way of a collar or look odd with a high neck.

>>7983518
Give it a longer waist and I'd wear the crap out of that tbh. Just looks super short waisted especially when my torso is like double that lmao

>>7983056
lol always funny when ita is used to mean "not a complete sheep"/"has their own style"

u do u lolitaborg

>>7983482
>>7983328
Part of the reason these work is because of shoulder coverage. A jsk can look decent blouseless, but only if there's enough of the shoulders covered to balance out the rest of the dress. The sailor dress has its collar, and the blue dress has the wide lace frills. A particularly wide strapped jsk or one with wide frills of chiffon or lace would be best for this.

>>7983528
This is going to sound weird but maybe you wash it wrong? My hair used to seem very flat even though it was quite long and thick and wavy. Turned out I was over washing and over conditioning it. You only need shampoo on the scalp area (unless you used a TON of product on it that day), and you only really need conditioner on the ends. What I do is apply the shampoo around my roots (start with a smaller amount and add more as needed, a lot of people use too much!), work it in, rinse, then squeeze the excess water out of my hair and apply conditioner to the ends and comb it through to about halfway up each strand. My hair is prone to being dry at the ends (cus of the waves and curls) so I leave it on there a few minutes while I wash the rest of me, then rinse it out.
Your skin makes oil to protect the roots of your hair, and all conditioner is is an artificial version of that oil basically, so it doesn't need to go near your roots at all. Over washing it makes more oil than it needs too, and strips the rest of the hair down and makes it weaker. You might also like trying a dry shampoo spray, maybe one that has a volumizer in it like Big Sexy. You just spray it into the roots and brush it through (I use a boars hair brush, get em from Walmart or whatever in the ethnic section usually)

>>7983537
I disagree with your whole statement but I love the use of "lolitaborg". I never heard that one before.

>>7982907
>>7982950
not that anon but i googled cute pajama shorts and they were in the top results lol here's the link but it says you have to join the website to buy or something, idk what that's about. >http://wanelo.com/p/2698552/scalloped-floral-pajama-shorts

>>7982666
Erm, I wasn't trying to address the emotional affect of rape on a person, I was just pointing out that since you where attempting to tear someone down because of their mislead rhetoric, if you don't know the full meaning of a word it is hypocritical.

It also points to your inherent poor judgement that you would make assumptions apon someone’s life whom you know nothing about to try and gain leverage to your argument as the victim of verbal assault(as you are valiantly defending rape victims). Trying to gain leverage in an argument by appealing to other people by using shocking terminology started your sandy ranting in the first place, "misusing the word rape and tossing it in casual conversation so that you can make it abundantly clear that you want to feel victimized".

Every single female and one male in my immediate family, including me, have been raped, molested or sexually assaulted (my mother, and two of my aunts where actually raped repeatedly by their father, because apparently, that's something you want to bring up). Yes it is painful to bring up, but emotional barriers are no excuse for ignorance because most intelligent people, no matter their history don't have a problem with looking up the dictionary and abhor willfull-ignorance.

Lastly, the information I found was on Wikipedia. It's just making you look like a dult for trying to break my argument down with that when its commonly available information.

>>7983529
Oh man, I forgot that those even exist. Thanks.

>>7983611
>Lastly, the information I found was on Wikipedia

ah yes the most reliable source

>>7983039
See I wish I could do this but I feel like I'd get made fun of by others...

I hate petticoat shapes. I know its necessary for the skirt to look right, but I usually wear two petticoats to get enough fluff. Two A-Line petticoats = A full cupcake petti??? A cupcake petti + A-line petti on top = Fluffy A-line petti. WTF?

I think I look terrible with full skirts that go past my knee. I look stumpy. I always aim to get the hem at or above my knee. Otherwise I'd need a straighter skirt that hits between mid calf or floor. There isn't really an in between for me.

And is it just me, or have people only been really complaining about knees in the last year or two? I don't remember it being part of the conversation three or four years ago.

>>7985678
I think that that's way too short for lolita. It's nearing ZR territory, which kind of goes against the modesty concept of lolita.

>>7985678
People have always complained about knees. There have been threads/comments/arguments about it since the dawn of lolita. Maybe you managed to avoid it, but it's always been a topic for discussion. If you don't care, then go for it.

>>7985688
That one is particularly short, so it goes with the OP's request of rules I like to break.
But I don't remember people gasping at the slightest hint of knee like people do nowadays.
>>7985697
I remember people arguing about length, but I seem to remember it being more about mid-thigh and shorter. Maybe I did manage to avoid it, I don't know.

>>7983688
I fucking hate cupcake pettis with anything. It looks ridiculous and like your skirt just exploded from your waist, at least with A-line you have a more versatile shape

>>7982715
so many people misspell tights on this board on an almost daily basis. English isn't my first language and it's really not that hard.

>>7985678
I know it breaks the rules, but I love that length. It just makes legs look miles longer. And since so much is covered up it doesn't look sexual. It looks reserved and pretty.

>>7985702
People always ask, "Is it ok if my knees show?" If they are unsure and usually new, but have read around about 'the rules' and most say it's ok as long as your thighs aren't out on display. But, some GLB purist and/or troll will come along and say no. It's gotten to be a formula really.

>>7985722
I agree 100%!
>>7985725
Which is funny, because old school lolita would constantly have knees and bloomers showing.

>>7985732
I know it makes no sense.

I would love to get some dresses/skirts that showed my knees because I'm short and I end up looking a bit stumpy without heels.

as far as knee showing, i think as long as the top of your socks aren't showing, it looks very cute and feminine to have a little bit shorter skirt.
this girl on the right >>7985740 is about what i mean. otherwise, it just looks a little strange, unless it's supposed to be an ero coord.

>I wear lolita without petticoats on occasion

>I wear lolita brand items as part of non-lolita outfits, ie in a general fash kinda way.

I tend to stick to the generally accepted lolita aesthetic but really couldn't care less how other people choose to wear their clothes.

I honestly find the bitching and obsessions within the communities bizarre and perplexing and thus have been put off joining any (my opinion has probably been skewed out of all proportion by visiting /cgl/ though).

The only 'rule' that is somewhat grating to me is the apparent obsession with 'modesty' and aversion to the expression of sexuality whilst wearing lolita. I'm not talking about 'porning' and sexying up outfits, but more people that bleat 'it isn't sexual'!! Over and over like some kind of mantra. I get that people want to avoid 'other lolita' connotations, but banging on about it to such a degree evokes the whole 'the lady doth protest too much, methinks' thing; particularly when individuals make a point of making sure everything they do is devoid of sexuality, when outsiders aren't even questioning their motives.

>>7985740
The 'no knees', 'no showing top of socks' thing appears to be a fairly recent idea, look through any of the earlier lolita bibles and it's full of shorter dresses, visible knees, sock tops and inches of visible bare leg. I'm not talking the frilly goth alt fash stuff sometimes featured, this was stuff clearly depicting lolita fashion. Hell, I even read articles that explained that visible sock tops or bloomers and a few inches of bare skin could be a nice 'fashion point'.

I wonder if this is in part due to Misako's rules, which to be fair make sense - as an ambassador she perhaps doesn't want to promote the idea of short skirts to keep the overall look relatively modest; it also avoids newbies seeing shorter skirts and then making their own that little bit shorter still. Lolita skirts have never been 'mini' length for sure.

All this does make me wonder just how much of earlier lolita fashion culture is known within newer communities, but then I probably would say that because I'm a massive oldfag fuddy duddy.

>>7981968
I am very tall and I love AP. I know it's breaking "the rules" but I am not going to settle for wearing a brand I don't like just so my skirt can go below my knees...

>>7985740

>tfw 5'1 and in AP even with OTKs (not even got fat legs.) you can generally still see the top of my socks.

>>7985783
shorter underskirts are very flattering! I'm in the same boat and chiffon underskirts suit almost everything!

Don't wear brand you don't like, who cares if your knees show, RinRinDoll is proof of that.

Makeup. I hate it, I hate removing it, I find it to be a massive pain in the ass. It seems to be more of a recent requirement, at least the OTT "dolly" looks (older street snaps have a lot more bare-faced lolitas in them) but I really don't enjoy it at all.

>>7985800
Indeed, also I would go as far to say that whoever claims that the whole shorter skirts/kness thing is a steadfast rule, clearly hasn't seen enough AP ads.

>>7985811
I have to agree anon. Plus I have very clear skin so most people already think I wear cover up. Also, no matter how many times I try it looks bad.

>>7985819
Someone cover her knees! Overt your eyes from those grossly inappropriate shame skittles and call the goddamned fashion police!

>>7981829
>abused
seriously?

>>7985826
That looks weird with her knees showing, but only because it's a winter looking theme. Won't her legs be cold?

>>7985794
It's because they're actually designed that way, you're ok. Just don't point this out to certain rage anons or they'll die from cognitive dissonance.

>>7985832
That isn't really weird for a Japanese girl

>>7985832
There is that but (and this is a massive generalization) Japanese fashion seems to think the whole short skirts with socks in winter thing is pretty cute and acceptable. When i was an exchange student many of the girls wouldn't switch to tights with their short school skirts during the winter because they didn't think it was as cute. True story.

>>7985836
Ah, beat me to it!

>>7985841
I bought one of those warm shorts from daiso sort of like pic related. They really do wonders to keep you warm!

Length/the knee thing. I have underdresses but I like my Lolita dresses short sometimes too. If I go without a blouse or petti though, I won't tag it 'lolita'. I don't see anything wrong with mixing it up with regular fashion or wearing it outside the rules as long as it's not tagged as Lolita.

>>7983039

Mid thigh is short for normalfag clothes, let alone lolita. Unless you have stick thin legs and no ass so it's not 'sexual' to see up that far...

>>7983450

In winter I often wear Primark's super cosy solid tights and knee socks in a contrasting color or the same with a bit of ruffle. It protects my tights from rubbing and dye transfer a bit. I also love ankle socks but do not EVER go out in bare legs. Even if I didn't have keratosis pilaris and muscular-but-also-fat legs I'd just feel naked.

>>7982206
actually one of the more influential girls in my comm (also e-famous but I'm not going to name names) never wears bloomers, and we most definitely can tell. The first time I met her she bent over in front of everyone and flashed her panties at everyone. Talk about awkward

>>7983688

My skirts always end up a sloping bell (half way between cupcake and a line?) rather than a hemisphere shape flaring at the bottom like a classical puppets petti stock pic. I layer 3 or 4 pettis of different shapes/fullness and change it up with different skirts. Personally I like it when the curve of the skirt is just about to reach a vertical line right at the hem

>>7986341
I have the same problem with my pettis. It seems like I need 2 to get adequate poof. But I also have that megadeath CP petti which is way too full for any reasonable dress I own. Why is there no middle ground.

>>7985678

You're super tall and skinny so don't think you'd ever look stumpy... Also there isn't the sexual element of pubescent flesh showing when there is no fat on your legs. Just under half of them is covered so it doesn't look as bad as something above the knee on a short person. Where like 3/4 of their leg is suddenly showing...

>>7986344
Damn, did I get a defective CP petti? I always have to layer another petti under it to be happy with the poof volume.

>>7985811

If you have clear skin then I wouldn't bother. Just a little bit of eye makeup to make them pop amidst all the details of the dress. I wear foundation because acne

>>7985826
*avert

>>7985854

Ooh, they look cosy but doubt my ass will fit in 'em

>>7986344
Sometimes I wish I just had to deal with one for simplicity (especially as live with my bf half the week and have to travel with all my loli things) but other times I'm glad I have the versatility. You can get alot of different shapes out of your pettis but the trick is remembering how you did it...

The first time I tried this on it was really broad at the bottom like the stock pic, the second time I put it on for HJ it was much more vertical at the bottom. Same pettis. Also hitting *just* above knee length because it's the miniskirt lol

>>7986362
That's not me. I'm 5'4" and have these weird legs that look thin or stumpy depending on how I style. It's frustrating.

>>7986675

Ah, sucks anon. Chunky boots/shoes and dark tights help make legs lolk less stumpy. I'm 5ft... The struggle!!

>>7985811

For me, make-up is a requirement for a coordinate. Not a huge amount, maybe just some mascara and mattifying powder or whatever suits your skin best and just a touch of gloss on the lips can be enough if you're facially gifted. However, I'm not an attractive girl and I need the whole nine yards to look decent including circle lenses and big lashes. Not everybody is as fortunate as >>7985825 in having very clear skin, either. Make-up should be used to enhance your features only insofar is fit for you personally.

>>7985811
this.
I don't really have any skin issues so I don't wear much makeup aside from tinted lipbalm. But whenever I say anything about it I get attacked by my comm and it basically boils down to "who does she think she is", "stop lying" and "you think you're so much better than us".

Not to my face but I've heard them talking.

>>7986692
plz for the love of all that is frilly, wear mascara.

I've finally gotten my skin to look nice with no foundation, just a bit of concealer. So yep, I just use powder, and do appropriate lip and eye makeup. I never wear casual Lolita so I think the fancier styles look odd without at least some makeup. And yes, mascara!

>>7986683
You think so? I was worried they'd visually cut off my feet! Do you have an example of your favorites?

>>7985819
Pretty sure it was Misako who threw shade over some contest where the popular entry had knees showing.

>implying Misako isn't a salty bitch

>>7986803
That whole thing was taken out of context and blown way out of proportion.

>>7986803
She said she only gave the girl the third place because of knees showing but only because she had to nitpick something.

>>7986365
Which one do you have? The megadeath one is like their super, super giant A-line - if you have the bell-shaped, daily A-line or regular A-line they're not the hugest things in the world.

>>7985819
She looks really offended in that picture for some reason.

>>7983328
I own mostly Juliette et Justine JSKs and I wear them all both with and without a blouse/cardigan. If it's cut like a dress, you can wear it like a dress. Most of JetJ's pieces, from the casual to the super fancy, are even modeled that way by the company themselves.

>>7985819
It looks like a strand of hair is on her knee.

>>7983506
>ruining your shoes?

>>7985678
I don't care about seeing your knees but the proportion of that looks super weird. Like it looks like your legs have been pasted on from another body. On girls with chubbier legs, it makes your legs look even fatter as well.

I hate skirts that go past the knee on most people, though- like that just below knee length.
It usually looks stumpy.

The sweet spot for non maxis is right at the top of the kneecap.

Personally, I hate the anti-short hair flack. Of course, it depends entirely on the coord and hair, but I think short hair can look adorable with lolita.

A lot of people say it's never feminine enough, but sometimes I actually love it when there is such a contrast with the outfit and hair. It's interesting looking.

The only problem is that some coords just need something in their hair, but there are often not many items that are interesting to put in short hair that doesn't also look odd in short hair.

pic related tho

>>7988088
my hair is just as short as hers (if she cut the long piece off) and I look so unbalanced in lolita without a wig, even if I have a headbow.
I love my short hair it's just makes my coods look lopsided and unfinished as heck.

>>7988088

>>7988091
I think I'm just incredibly biased because I really love short hair on people. Not to mention I live in Florida as of recently, and I have learned that I. I really fucking cannot stand a wig here. My God, I would rather be considered an ita than wear a wig on some days. Plus, I like it enough depending on what state my hair is in, so.

>>7988091
bruh it's a "rules you hate" / unpopular opinion thread what were you expecting to see here other than things that would probably make you rage.

>>7985762
My parents thought it was fetish wear and my grandparents blew up about it, straight up accusing me of being pedophile bait because I'm an adult female which apparently makes me a sexual object whatever I wear. Just me coming over for christmas and and comments from others gives people the idea I'm a filthy fetish whore without me doing anything sexual in lolita... So yeah I am really paranoid about coming across the wrong way and can't even fap in lolita.

>>7988124
Show us a pic of your coord!

>>7988088
>>7988098
Thank you for this. I love short hair in lolita! A lot of more toned-down classic coords look especially nice with it, and it makes me sad that it's considered automatically ita.

>>7988088
I don't mind short hair in lolita, I just think a girl has to have a very feminine looking face to pull it off or they could end up looking like a boy.

The girl in the photo, short hair does make her look more manly with her features.

>>7988088
I just want to cut of that long piece.

>>7987755

I don't even consider J et J lolita. The dresses pictured are gorgeous but just regular dresses with a print on them (otome?) therefore as you say, don't need the full lolita works with blouses and cardigans etc

>>7988088

Not so sure about that particular coord or haircut but definitely think people with short hair shouldn't be bullied into wearing a wig. You can also wear large hair accessories or bonnets to balance out the the outfit up top.

>>7983611
>intelligent people
>telling someone else how to use language
>WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE

It's fucking "were" for past tense and "where" for location, you moron.

>>7988131

Embarrassed now. I'm a council house girl and most of my wardrobe is casual/offbrand/Bodyline because I like wearing frilly things most of the time. I hardly wear sweet, never do OTT but ok maybe the Bunny Cinderella looks a bit ageplay? It looks less so in black. I can't afford AP level ageplay lol. I don't believe the classic looks fetishy and even though I liked gothic fashion before lolita I hardly wear gothic for fear of fetishy associations (fisnets and corsets in western goth aplenty) on top of pedo bait concerns. But I can do 'classy'... I think. The meta skirt coord is the only one my mother called 'stupid' rather than 'fucked up'.

Now scared.

>>7988257

But for serious, it was a good 3 hour long fight with my grandparents. I tried to argue the point that people will sexualize ANYTHING a woman wears and that says more about the onlooker than the woman wearing frills. They argued what I was doing was wrong and just because it's cute doesn't change that. They went as far as to say just because Mussolini made the trains run on time (myth?) doesn't mean he (i.e. Lolita) wasn't inherently evil. WTF

>>7988165
>have a round babbyface
>not even the cute kind
>don't even look feminine
>I look like a literal infant
>mfw the only reason people don't mistake me for a little pre-pubescent boy is my big curly hair
>really really want a cute pixie cut
I just want to look cute like Carey Mulligan...

>>7988257
you look so good and your style really suits you, ignore your family - I do have to ask about the pink shoes, I've seen them on ebay but I've heard that they run small, how have you found them to be?

>>7988257


First off, your style is really cute, and I think it suits you. Having said that, though, there's a few things I want to nitpick.

Gothic lolita is not the same as gothic fashion, fishnets and corsets aren't all that common in gothic lolita. Try looking at moitie's non print stuff (pic related), you'd be surprised at how toned down simple gothic lolita can look (not asking you to buy the dresses, just check out the looks first).

As for not doing sweet much, half your collage is sweet -- bunny cinderella, balloon bears (just because it's black does not make it not sweet), bodyline carousel and perfume bottle coorded with a lot of pink makes it look sweet as well. There's also the plastic jewellery and wristcuffs that adds to the kiddie look.

Your style is cute, but at some point you're going to have to decide if you want to change it to keep the peace in your house, or continue wearing it anyway. We lolitas know there's nothing wrong with being a lolita, but sometimes it's easier to tone things down a little to maintain a little bit of peace. Or, maybe you feel like giving in to your parents means admitting that you're doing something wrong, so continuing to do it is the best way of showing them that they're in the wrong, not you. You have to decide which one you want to do.

If you do want to tone down your style, I'd look into simple classic or gothic instead of sweet lolita (eg- moitie, btssb or IW instead of AP), or look into otome to see how dresses can be worn without petticoats and things don't always have to match.

Style choice aside, I'd also recommed you look into taobao and indie brands. A lot of them go for nearly Bodyline prices, but the fabric tends to be less stiff than Bodyline. More brands to look at will give you much wider choices, including being able to do moitie-type looks with dresses from Miss Point or Dark Box. Plus there's a lot of cute, cheap, frilly stuff on taobao.

>>7988331

Thanks anon x I wear quite a variety but don't always take pics. I agree with you that I need to look into making a Taobao order- I have been in love with KL blouses, Magic Tea Party and Infanta for a while now. I see the toned down look of true gothic lolita, and if I'm honest with myself I do have a preference for sweet prints in black or classic with a sweet tinge and admiring gothic styles or EGA outside of lolita. Being so little I feel silly trying to do a style that looks more 'grown up' despite being 22- the meta coord being the exception. I don't want to 'give in' to my parents as you say, but considering I'll be moving out soon perhaps I should just compromise with sweet-classic for the time being. I love me some Mary Magdalene and Innocent World but fear some of their stuff will swamp me. My more mature dresses are Haenuli and they are lover calf length... Could probably do with ditching the pink and plastic jewelry...
Thanks for taking the time to evaluate x

>>7988270

Thankyou so much x

They are just a little bit tight but I think that might be my problem feet (i need orthotics) not the shoes. With a good arch, spacers and gel heel grips there isn't so much rubbing at the ankle or crushed toes. They are really cute and I actually prefer wearing them to the very similar ones I paid £15 more from Dreamy Bows for.

>>7988088
Holy shit.
>disgusting hair
>tacky pink cowboy boots
>no blouse
>lack of petti

and this is the good example of short hair you give?

fucking kek

>>7988532
I was mostly looking at her face and hair. But. Yeah. I should have paid ten times more attention to the coord cause, uhh.

>>7988088
That coord is terrible, holy shit.

Anyway, I think it's nightmare level difficulty to pull off hair shorter than a bob in lolita. The person would have to be very pretty and extremely feminine looking. It wouldn't work with just any old pixie cut, either, it would have to be cut and styled as girly as possible. One should never go shorter than what you can wear a headband with. I also think it could only work with certain styles. I could see it going well with goth or classic, but I have a hard time imagining it looking as good in sweet.

Pic related, I think she would look nice in classical lolita.

>>7988226
Some of their dresses are less frilly and can be styled either as lolita or otome/western feminine, but they definitely still make lolita clothes. And style them without blouses.

>>7988088
I think short hair can look cute with Lolita if the right accessories are used. Small headbands, berets, and those double sidebows that BABY makes all look really cute with pixie cuts, in my opinion. The problem is when someone with short hair doesn't use a hair accessory at all, or uses something too big that isn't balanced by the hair.

>>7988226
>JetJ not lolita
Have you ever bothered to actually look at their clothes? It's definitely a lolita brand.

>>7988257
I love the corset with that meta skirt!

>>7982204
Language evolves dipshit, or are you still calling left handed people "sinister". I hate wanna be linguists, it's a great subject and a fun degree (major or minor) but asshats like yourself make every person interested in or working in linguistics look like a douche lord.

It's not enough to be learn what words mean and their origins, you have to understand that language- and every part of culture- evolve. Definitions being static isn't a certainty.

>>7982127
You sound awful, I honestly hope you're a young person because if you're over 18 and acting this way... Though I will admit your comm sounds bitchy.

>>7988735
pic related rocks it

>>7989555
looks like OC

I wear orthopedic shoes with every outfit. I have a foot deformity and these are the only style of shoes I can walk comfortably and safely in.

>>7989705
you know they make mary jane-style orthopedic shoes right?

>>7989566
who's OC?
regardless, neither look bad.

>>7989705
I am the same. I put on lolita shoes just for photos, but other lolitas always stink eye me when they look at my feet.
>>7989714
Where?

>>7987818
Socks absorb sweat. Without the socks, the sweat just kind of pools up in the leather, even if just in tiny amounts, and if you wear it like that a lot it can peel up the insole or make the shoe smell really bad. Plus I mean thats how athletes foot happens.

I really love salopettes in lolita, the ones you can put a petticoat in , pic related.
I'm a bit small as it is, so its not horrendously short on me and I feel like salopettes are just really cute.

>>7990602

Agreed. A lot of dresses swamp me. I only think salopettes where the skirt is not longer than the bodice are just not lolita and belong in other j fashions.

>>7988801

Thankyou anon! I did a lot of research to find a decent steel boned corset on ebay but I 'd like to get a custom one when I've saved up.

>>7990602
Me too! Some are more fairy kei or otome but i love them a lot.
Another thing i love are dropped waist skirts because they are the only skirts that look good on me and not make me suffocate, hopefully i'm short so they are lolita length or a bit above the knee and many of them fit a small petti.

>>7986324
Anon are you me?! I do exactly the same, and I sympathise so much about slightly chubby yet muscular legs with added keratosis pilaris sex appeal. You're not alone!

>>7989714
you know that just because something is an orthopedic shoe doesn't mean that everyone with a disability can wear it right?

I fucking hate how most lolita shoes look on me.
I'm all legs and mary-janes with the tiny block heel actually suit me so much better than those chunkyass tea parties.

>>7989555
Yeah, but that girl is like 8/10 at least and not many people can pull off the ear length bob.
Hell, some people can't even really pull off a chin length bob.

>>7990602
I fucking hate all these people screaming "Salopettes aren't lolitaaaaa!!!"
like they haven't seen a salopette that fits a petticoat before, and the people who whine that have seen salopettes that fit the lolita silhouette only whine about it because its "too short"

probably the same fuckers that whine about knees

>>7989555
>rocks it

Noooot really.

Her hair just looks like a hat. Her pretty face distracts from the bad hair, but it doesn't make her hair a good cut.

>>7985836
I wish I could do this, but the skin that's showing goes all red from the cold which looks ridiculous. Kind of works with nude stockings underneath the socks, but then the socks keep sliding off. I love how it looks, though.

>>7991656
Noted.
>Salopettes look like shit on 80%+ of the people who wear them.

Better?

>>7991660

I honestly think she looks better with that cut than the long hair she usually tries, which ends up making her face look a little weird.

I do short hair with lolita simply because I don't have wigs yet. So far the responses have been positive but it's definitely not my first choice.

>>7991656
... But they ARE too short. I'd be down with them being accepted as lolita if they were longer, but I've never seen one that wasn't mid-thigh on an average height girl. I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to length and don't care if something is a few inches above someone's knees, especially with AP shit since it's so short, but salopettes cross a line. I don't mind them or anything, I just don't think there's anyway around the fact that they aren't lolita. They're just relevant to lolita, kind of like how kodona or EGA is.

>>7981756
Did the knee hatred all come from Misako saying one time that a girl in otk with bare thigh shoeing wasn't optimal? Because I notice in her latest photo wearing Sugar Dream Dome that it hits above her knees but she has tights. Was it because of the bare thigh skin showing that got shorter Lolita dresses their criticism? Imai Kira's art very often show them short.

>>7992717
I think it looks weird because her wigs are poor-quality more than anything else. She needs to invest in some good ones. And cut the damn bangs.

>>7989832
Agreed. At least wear peds or something similar.

>>7989832
But that's just if you wear them barefoot, right? Does it happen with tights too?

>>7988088
ugh, it looks greasy as fuck

>>7989832
I've never had this problem. But it's usually cold where I live and my feet don't sweat a lot I guess.

>>7992715
"but it says the waist is 93 cm~ So it fits~!"

I personally love wearing them, but I agree with you there. Most western girls look awful in them.

>>7991526

I hate clunky clown like lolita shors myself. Oxfords and mary janes just seems to work better. I mean I like cute details like bows and hearts hole punched in but hate clunky shoes.

>>7990700

I don't know but I certainly feel alot better! Genetics (mother was called thunder thighs at school, dad was a sprinter) plus many years of horse riding/gym/ballet have given me these solid muscles and thick thighs with the normal amount of lady fat on top. Yeah men seem to love it but goddamn it iI want to have skinny prepubescent kawaii legs goddamn it. I want to be able to have bare legs and wear short skirts in j fash without looking like a prostitute. Also trying out ketaconazole, hydrocortisone cream and coconut oil for the kp. I have heard good things about these methods online.

I let my boyfriend fuck me in full brand. When he gets tired of one outfit I re-sell it for a new one to keep his interest.

I don't wash anything.

>>7996367
0/10. been done before.

>>7996348
Maybe pumpkin shorts would look cute on you? Otherwise, besides trimming down your 'lady fat' not much you can do once those muscles are built. But at least you'll be fit and look it
. That's a good look, toned muscular legs.

>>7996401

That cut looks really cute. I'm tiny so would probably go for the fairy kei bloomery looking ones for maximum kawaii factor. Yup, the muscle didnt shift even when I was anorexic. It looked like you photoshopped mary kate olsen's upper body onto the legs of a gold medal cyclist with nicki minaj ass lol Thanks for the tip, browsing Taobao brb...

>>7996348
I always thought thicker legs look better in lolita, super thin legs remind me of high fashion runway models.