/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

I don't think anyone, including rosaire, is saying she's 100% innocent. It's not mature to respond to insults with insults--but that doesn't mean that Aoki is somehow justified in being a total bitch, either. Especially since she's insulting her company's customers.

The fact that the Isobe's have seen the text exchange, validated Aoki's harsh words by saying that the non-Japanese worker "didn't understand". The fact that the Isobe's know and refuse to do anything, knowing that word spreads fast online...

Well it's made me never want to even step into their shop ever again, because now I refuse to support them. I'm taking my money to people who care more about their international image and their international customers.

>>6894995
>I'm taking my money to people who care more about their international image and their international customers
All you go is Indie then.

>>6894949
>I don't really think there's anything else to be said that hasn't been said already
Then why make a whole new thread?

I think the drama between Aoki and Rosaire is a separate issue. No one will ever know if Rosaire really deserved to be fired (though I'm sure Aoki pushed for it to happen), and it's business between the two of them.

Aoki's actions involving every international customer is a much bigger deal, because it affects anyone not Japanese who buys from Baby and is discriminated against because of it. I doubt Baby's going to anything about it, and it'd be great if we could get them to even realize we care about it, but I sure as fuck am not going to buy direct from them again.

>>6895021
discussion obviously

>>6895021
Because it's fun.

I'm really really pissed and appalled about how the situation is being handled. If they sue rosaire (even though she herself is a shit person) I'm just going to hate it more. I for one, would love to see the social justice warriors fly loose and make tons of announcements about this.

>>6895067
Maybe someone should put it on Tumblr? Those bitches know how to make big deals out of shit like no one's business.

>>6895067
I'm feeling the opposite actually, I hope that they sue the shit out of her for being enough of an idiot to not even know the laws of the country she's staying in. Also, this is just going to make people hate Misako for no reason again because everyone is fucking idiots. Japan is different guys, it fucking sucks but you have to try as best you can to integrate into their culture.

>>6895112
>hating misako
wtf why? she had no part in this did she?

>>6895112
You do know if you read the gtfo post when it was open for everyone and the link to her facebook, her name is Tocco Aoki. Misako has nothing to deal with any of this.

>>6895122
Because she's part of Baby and all the SJWs already hate her because tumblr fucking has no idea how Japan works since they're stuck in thinking that the whole world is like the US. And they take things out of context because they're stupid.

>>6895103
I know. imaaagiiine the dramu that would come from this! I can't into words but if someone could make a social justicy post about it I'll reblog it and try to signal boost the best I can

>>6895132
Read again, I know that they're not the same person, I'm saying that Baby's bad press is going to get people worked up about Misako again. "Oh obviously she's a racist slut shamer working for a horrible company like Baby"

>>6895122
I think it's because her last name is Aoki and she's known for making a lot of statements that not everybody agrees with.

>>6895149
Ah ok, just making sure. They both have last name of Aoki afterall. But Misako says some pretty dumb stuff though, but the pressure is more with her, not because she's Japanese but she gets sponsored by the Japanese government to be an ambassador of cute. So she does have to watch what she says, because it will be a tarnish on her.

But if this incident with Baby does go viral, it will lead to backlash for both the company and Misako.

>>6895189
>But Misako says some pretty dumb stuff though
Not really, what has she said that was dumb?

>>6895112
You have no idea what's going on, do you?

>>6895218
People like to take things she says out of context. Like, when asked of she thought girls should tan, she said no, and people took it as, "OMG SHE THINKS DARKER GIRLS CAN'T BE LOLITA!" When she judged a contest, she was asked why she chose one person's coord over another, and she said that she thought the girl that came in second shouldn't have shown her knees, and people were like, "MISAKO THINKS YOU CAN NEVER SHOW YOUR KNEES EVER."

>>6895189
Misako has literally nothings to do with any of this. Stop trying to make your comment seem relevant.

>>6895232
that made me so mad...black people can be pale and get tans, too, did they forget?

>>6895236
She was most likely thinking of it in terms of fake tanning and sunbeds, though, like how it's popular with gyarus. So it's more like orange people shouldn't be lolita.

>>6895112
Except she didn't break Japanese law.

>>6895223
FOR THE LAST TIME I MEANT BECAUSE TUMBLR ALREADY HATES MISAKO FOR OTHER THINGS AND MISAKO IS BABY'S MODEL, SO IF BABY GETS SHIT ON PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GIVE MISAKO MORE CRAP SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY!

For fucks sake, I'm one of the anons who's been translating shit!

>>6895260
Okay, sorry. I just don't think she'll get backlash because she doesn't really have anything to do with Baby's customer service or administration.

>>6895247
That is so offensive!~ Orange Americans have feelings too!

>>6895252
I'm not talking about laws she broke, I'm talking about putting up personal information about former employees into the public eye. That's considered slander even if it has truth to it. Even if that wasn't the case I would have been more cautious since she could get deported.

>>6895252
I feel people keep making it a big deal of her getting fired. I've literally witnessed people in Japanese companies getting fired for way less so I wouldn't be surprised if it was getting fired over plain bitching from resentful senior staff.

I can see it now

>>6895292
She hasn't done anything illegal, you don't get deported that way.
Tocco flat out said she didn't care if she posted it to egl or on facebook.

>>6895292
Didn't you talk enough out of your butthole on the getoffegl post?

>>6895314
omfg

>>6895284
I'm imagining Snooki and Valentino in lolita and it ain't qt

>>6895309
Yeah, first she encouraged her to post it, and then threatens to sue her? I mean, not like she hasn't made empty threats before.

>>6895292
Dear vendetta-chan, posting a link to someone's facebook isn't LIBEL you moron. Nor is calling someone a bitch.

>>6895446
I'm not the vendetta-chan, but posting a private conversation on a public forum that you had with a (former) co-worker is. And she's not native so she'd be charged more.

Sorry to say that not every country has the same laws that you're used to. Get over it.

>>6895451
But you just said it wasn't about laws. Now it is. Which is it?

>>6895451
SHE GAVE PERMISSION TO POST IT. Do you understand?

>>6895451
Posting private conversations isn't what would make this libel. Saying "Tocco is a racist who hates Chinese people" is what would make it libel.

LETS GET DOWN TO BUSINESS
TO DEFEAT THE HUNS
I ASKED FOR A DRESS
AND YOU GAVE ME NONE
INSTEAD YOU BANNED ME FROM YOUR LIST
WHEN I TRIED TO BUY FROM YOU
OH BABY
I THINK
WE'RE THROUGH

>>6895453
bitch, you know that a bluff on fb isn't permission for anything. if i say something like 'go ahead, punch me' that doesn't take responsibility away from the person who does it.

It's one elaborate scheme by Maki and Asuka to bring Baby down to it's knees in submission.

>>6895467
She said it in the mails, not facebook. And you can't apply the laws of physical assault to libel where the entire point is to hold people accountable for their words, because it probably doesn't work like that. Instead of just assuming that the law works in line whatever dumbass logic you want to follow, why not show proof through existing cases, etc, that "go ahead and post these mails" is not sufficient permission to post the mails?

/cgl/, Attorney at Lol
Where everyone specializes in Japanese libel suits apparently

>>6895467
you're embarrassing yourself, just stop.

>>6895467
jfc you are retarded

>>6895463
Ngl I think this should be a theme song

can someone give me a
TL;DR greentext of all the drama?

am I high right now? what the fuck is happening, where did mulan come from, why is this a thing, what is a thing?

>>6895496
Rosarie is getting deported for slander

>>6895496
>Roaire posts on getoffegl about person behind Sana, the person in charge of customer service
>Girl named Aoki Tocci, friends with lots of people on FB
>keeps a personal blacklist with insulting comments on it, hates foreigners, and hates working for Baby
>Rosaire claims that Tocci lied about her work ethic to get her fired, and now Rosaire's out of a job
>Posts caps of email exchange between the two of them, Tocci calls Rosaire a pig and an old man, tells her to shave her face, calls all Baby customers worthless, says foreigners have no sense of what is cute, and all the customers are attention whores.

>>6895496
>BtSSB former employee also gaijin drops all the info on a xenophobic black-listing crazy bitch who takes the international orders for their site
>crazy bitch is also a horribly mean person, calling names, gets gaijin girl fired because she had a huge workload dumped onto her
>gaijin girl throws out caps of bitchy emails and basically uncovers baby's lack of caring for the non-japanese customer base

and some idiot anons arguing about whether or not gaijin girl broke the law and could possibly get sued/deported/stoned in public/shot out of a cannon

>>6895498
Yeah, you're probably high.

>>6895514
Aww yeah, ride the dramu waaave, just takin it easy and watchin it all unfold.

>>6895504
what? really? proof?

>>6895531
There isn't any. Aoki just threatened to sue Rosaire for libel, so now people are arguing about whether she has a case or not.

Pretty sure nothing is going to happen and everyone will forget everything within a week.

Even if we boycott, I'm pretty sure the foreign EGL community is such a small percentage of a consumer base that it doesn't even matter.

>>6895543
Is the population of lolita in Japan really that much bigger in comparison to the lolitas all around the world, though?

>>6895546
It doesn't really matter if it is, but probably. Either way, baby is a well-established enough brand to not need foreign money, they just want it and they're acting like they don't care if it stays or not.

>>6895546
I'm pretty damn sure there are more lolitas outside of japan than in japan itself. They are just being "proud azns" and wont acknowledge us filthy uncute gaijin scum

>>6895551
Yeah, but enough that by from Baby to economically damage them?

>>6895543
For some reason I'm just... not surprised or bothered enough this enough to boycott. Like is anyone actually surprised that there is at least one obnoxious, xenophobic bitch working at Baby? If I want what they make, and the international ordering works enough for me then I'll buy something.

>>6895138
I'm trying to think of a context where "foreign piggus oink oink nobody at BABYSSB likes you" isn't insulting as fuck, and it's just not coming to me. Any help?

>>6895557
They'd have to close their overseas physical stores, for one. I really doubt they'd go bankrupt but the overseas stores and events they organize do suggest that they get enough out of us to make the extra effort worthwhile.

>>6895565
But that was said at Rosaire, not at all foreigners.

>>6895565
No, she's talking about Aoki Misako here, not Aoki Tocco.

>>6895572
What about the part where she says the customers are pathetic attention whore and that it's not possible for foreigners to look cute?

>>6895579
That's not what the translation says. It says that Rosaire is a fat pig and foreigners have no sense of cute.

>>6895581
....soooo if foreigners have no sense of cuteness, then they can't look cute. You're trying too hard to whiteknite this bitch because you hate Rosaire. Go away.

>>6895579
There was also something like "nobody at BABY likes foreigners".
I think those are the parts that BABY should care about. One xenophobic bitch employee isn't going to ruin them, but when that xenophobic bitch employee starts speaking for the entire company and portrays them all as being xenophobes as well, that's a problem. Even if it's true, it's not something you want out there.

>>6895592
Baby kind of gives off that vibe anyway. Like, "We're gracefully allowing you foreigners to buy our clothing, so be grateful."

wait wait what the hell is going on here. some one explain in 10 points o less

>>6895627
read you lazy shit

>>6895546
>>6895543
You guys seem to forget China and the popularity of Lolita there and no, they don't wear replicas themself usually.

>>6895665
Not to mention that most of Baby's stuff is made in China, imagine a boykott there and it isn't unusual to burn factories because of things japanese said.

>>6895643
fuck no

>>6895643
scroll up you mong, someone already posted a summary

>>6895673
Summertime, trolling /cgl/ is easy...

so, does anyone plan on making a lengthy tumblr post? I'd love to see how'd thy respond

>>6895701
mong chan! You're here!

>>6895790
This.

I can't comment on their web ordering system, it's always been a little over complicated, but when I visit them in Japan (my favourite store is the one in Omiya (it might be AatP)) I've only been treated with courtesy and genuine appreciation. It's pretty easy to distinguish the difference between the xenophobic behaviour, and those who genuinely don't care.

Frankly, if you're a repeat customer of theirs, might I suggest you email your thoughts, and simply impart your hurt over the incident, instead of building the hate and resentment off each other?

>>6895868
>implying the one who will read the mail won't just delete it off
>implying a "royal" customer wishes to risk being sent straight to blacklist
>implying, that under the remarks section, tocco won't write you off as an uncute pig
>and therefore implying btssb cares

Drama always finds a way.
bless you seagulls, i live for your drama

>>6895884
Well, I'm sure there are 'royal' customers who would boycott them over this incident anyway, there'll be someone who won't care about being blacklisted. Still, I do agree with you, it won't make any difference.

>>6895884
She'd only say you're a pig with no cute sense if you're Rosaire. Seeing as those insults were directed at her and not you.

>>6895898
btssb still doesn't care

There are two points I would like to raise.

1. Why don't we ask Rosaire how much foreign orders account for? If she worked there two months then she should have an idea of the ratio of Japanese to foreign orders there were per day. Then we could have a better idea of whether a boycott would matter.

2. Aoki-chan obviously doesn't like foreigners, but how do we know that the rest of the staff doesn't either? She's biased and maybe forces the staff to agree with her when the topic comes up since no one wants to speak up against her crazy ass and Japanese people tend to all agree when conflicts arise. Do we believe her statement without hearing from anyone else from BABY?

>>6895463
This is golden

Gawddammit, Baby. Shouldn't they have a PR person on board? If they do, they're doing a really shitty job. This shit should have been resolved since the beginning.

>>6894995
Dude, I can't even fit in their clothes well. I'm in good shape and I'm not over 166 cm, but for some reason, their designers think that everyone has boobs at their neck and skirts should sit way above the knee. I don't know...maybe I'm just shopping for the wrong style of dresses, but I'm curious if anyone else has trouble with the bodice area of Baby's dresses.

>>6895474
Ha, I can see that. I've always known that there was something evil underneath that facade of sweetness.

I probably wouldn't mind considering that AP pieces fit me better. I don't even like Misako. She creeps me out for some reason. I wish Midori was the cute ambassador instead, however, that would only leave me conflicted.

Usually Japanese businesses try to help each other out rather than try to buy each other out. This is kind of a weird concept, considering that you'd be looked down upon for wearing a different brand item in a shop.

>>6895960
I sure do have a problem with their bodices and considering I'm 5'1" and perfectly within their measurements I shouldn't. It's like they can't imagine girls having any sort of boob even though they often list 90-100cm bust. Even their mannequin is straight up flat.

>>6895665
I wonder if it'd be possible to get China in on a boycott, since Tocco hates Chinese people so much.

>>6896012
Not hard, you only would have to post this on Weibo at the lolita hashtag and within few seconds there are already over 100 views.

>>6896039
Fuck it, I'm Chinese, but I can't read or write it at all.

The thing I don't understand is.... by shopping at either Baby SF or Baby Paris, you're STILL giving the Isobes your money, which in turn pays Tocco's salary.

IMO, the Isobes are at fault here, by allowing this to go on for 6+ years.

>>6895960
I have a problem with their dresses too. I recently bought an AatP dress from Closet Child and that shit sits up so high on me that I'm going to have to either alter it or tuck the straps in and wear it as a strapless dress. I'm kind of tall (5'9) but even if I were a few inches shorter, it would still fit pretty dumb.

>>6895960
I'm 5'3" and all their bodices hit me a good two inches above my natural waist. They're also cut rather tubelike so I'd imagine that anyone with more than a B-cup is going to get a really awkward fit.
It's not that BtSSB is small, not remotely. But apparently even chubby Japanese girls are shapeless?

>>6896039
>>6896060

I know, me too.

Maybe i should send to this to anotherjfashionblog or something. I doubt they'd do anything about it since they have an SS and probably wouldn't want to perturb their customer base - anyone else know anybody with good Chinese skills?

>>6896116
They have a shape. It's a cylinder. Check your hourglass privilege.

>>6896063
That's true, but I still think buying from Baby's brick-and-mortar stores or from other indirect sources is preferable to buying from the international site, because it sends a message that people like and want Baby's clothes, but don't like working with Sana, and isn't her job kind of pointless if nobody orders from the site? Or would she have some control over international stores as part of her job, too? I dunno.
Still, I guess it's all pretty pointless anyway since the Isobes just don't seem to give a fuck.

>>6896060
Come on, we have chinese-speaking/writing/reading people in the taobao threads all the time. Someone needs to do this. Chinese people are very proud (and they dislikes the japanese), so I'm sure they would be offended.

Damnit, and I was just starting to save up for an AatP lucky pack. Baby, why must you employ such a racist nutcase?

>>6896116
Japanese people tend to widen uniformly rather than in certain places like Westerners, I've noticed. For example my chest and thighs will grow when I gain weight but not my waist and calves, while a Japanese person's entire torso and leg down to the ankle seems to get bigger. I feel bad for large girls here in Japan because of the way many of them just turn into solid blocks.

>>6895790
I'd be happy to put the post on my lolita blog, but have no talent for writing in 'butthurt SJ-nese'. Anyone wanna write it up with/for me?

People should email her and say how they can't figure out how to order because the English is so bad. IT'S UNABLE TO!

I don't get what you guys expect to accomplish with Tumblr posts though. Like how do you want BTSSB to respond? Apologize? "Dear customers from oversea, we are very sorry for dislike you. Please be forgivening, or we will have to blacklist you."
Or do you just want them to fire Tocco?

>>6896605
Them firing Tocco would be nice.

Replacing her with a foreigner would be really funny.

A good apology would be something along the lines of "We're sorry for allowing this type of behavior to go on for so long. In no way are our views reflected in Miss Aoki's statements. BTSSB would like to assure you that we love our foreign customers and from now on will make sure that they are treated the same way we treat our loyal customers here in Japan."

Something like that. That would be nice.

>>6896626
But they won't. Mr. Isobe loves her and she is literally the only person who knows how to do all of the international shipping procedures. If they give her the boot then there is no one left who knows how to do international shipping.

>>6896632
In all of Japan there is nobody who can do international shipping?

>>6896642
There are certain procedures that need to be followed with their system. Maybe they could fire her after they force her to teach someone all of that, but they can't just tell her to GTFO now like she did to me.

>>6896648
Well as far as I know the actual shipping and order processing is okay, they just need to have someone else handle directly emailing customers in English.
If Tocco didn't interact directly with customers she could be as xenophobic as she wanted and it wouldn't matter, but her bad attitude comes across really strongly in her dickish email replies and has been putting people off since long before anyone knew who she was.

Rosaire seems upset that she didn't get Tokko's job. And it wasn't just Tokko that thought she was a poor employee.
We all knew there was a blacklist, but there is no proof that it has nasty comments on it. Not all the conversation is included, and we don't know the context. And Tokko obviously doesn't hate all roundeye, she is friends with some.

>>6896658
Yeah she wouldn't let me do that at all until she left the country for two weeks to go to the US with Midori and Misako. Then when she came back I was forbidden to answer emails again. Her translations are bad too, for example she has things like "Kitty's nekomimi cutsew," and she translated houndstooth as puppy's tooth because "houndstooth is too ugly" in her opinion. But since I am just a piggu with no cute sense she wouldn't let me translate anything. I guess I was just hired to collect stock and pack boxes, despite Isobe saying he wanted me to use my English with customers.

>>6896665
I was hired to help her, not replace her. If all you are getting out of this is "rosaire is buttmad she didn't get to replace Tocco!" then you should try not selectively reading about the issue.

I didn't want her job. International shipping is something that two people need to do, not one. It's way too much work for one person.

>>6896676
lol

>>6896665
There's no proof of the others saying she is a bad employee. Why is only Rosaire the one lying, vendetta-chan? Tokko can lie too you know.

>>6896665
Being friends with someone on facebook doesn't mean anything. I'm sure we're ALL facebook friends with people we can't stand out of courtesy. That aunt you can't stand? Racist uncle? Bratty cousins? Come on.

>>6896583
link it here. I'll reblog it. yess I love my signal boost powers

>>6896691
She needs the worship from her loving fans.

>>6896691
Well she was also sending people free dresses and shit.
But that could be sort of a "I'm not racist, I have black friends" thing. Tocco's friends aren't like all those OTHER white piggus.

>>6896667
>she translated houndstooth as puppy's tooth because "houndstooth is too ugly"

She's right, tho. You really have no sense of kawaii.

>>6896690
>The other staff claimed all I did was sit around and do nothing while she was gone

>>6896667
"Kitty's nekomimi cutsew" is pretty friggin cute
Plz gain some cute sense you busu piggu

>>6896705
lol

>>6896705
>busu piggu
That sounds kinda kawaii too. I want a pig print.

>>6896715
Me too. And that Aoki bitch saying we piggus aren't kawaii...

Oink!

>>6896720
Just Rosaire.

>>6895965
Her teeth are nasty!!

I'm glad I never liked Baby in the first place. AP is much cuter.

>>6896752
Ok dreamy baby room. AP is for ageplay piggus

>>6896757
Dreamy Baby Room is cute. I'm not even into Ageplay but the Ageplay looking prints are my favorite.

>>6895218
Girl follow up

>>6895627
That already has happened if you look

>>6896263
I'm chinese and have no probs with the Japanese only the racist ones

>>6896818
You probably don't live in China. Remember the Senkaku islands?

Taiwanese people are chill with the Japanese, since they hate China.

You guys really like to band together, don't you? I agree with the whole 'Tocco should never say rude things like that,' but what sort of service have you guys personally received to make you hate the international service so? (Sorry, didn't see any examples above.)

I've bought a shitton of stuff online and never received more than a polite albeit curt thank you for shopping with us and do so again soon sort of message. You know, with correct/funtional banking, prompt replies, etc. I never knew there was so much hate for their online services.

>>6896876
They frequently blacklist people for the dumbest reasons.

For example:
http://egl.livejournal.com/17461361.html

>>6896890
I wouldn't say it happens frequently

>>6896890
I can see how that is a very bad problem... and blacklisting her was too extreme.

Is it also perhaps their lack of English comprehension though? I read both of Baby's replies and they weren't rude at all. I have, however, accounted for their lack of English comprehension and crutch with literal transations. The Japanese and their culture have this awkward way of using positive-reversals in their speech and writing that does not translate well into English.

Baby just needs a better grasp of English. /shrugs

And this whole Rosaire/Tocco thing just sounds like a private catfight that we're all being dragged into...

>>6896698
Wait, what? She was sending people free dresses? I've followed this whole situation pretty closely and haven't heard that yet, source please? I'm curious now.

>>6896936
I would. My bestie got blacklisted for asking a question about a parasol. It was literally one email that was two sentences long and she got a broken Engrish response from "Sana" saying she was blacklisted.

It seems to happen pretty often...

>>6896946
This so freaking hard!

If I had a nickel for every time a Japanese person didnt fully comprehend English I would be able to buy all the brand. And if I had a nickel for everytime a non Japanese person didnt fully comprehend Japanese and meaning got lost in translation I would be able to own Btssb.

If Rosaire would have kept her head down and her mouth shut then she probably wouldn't have gotten fired. I'm sure her whining about being bullied just aggravated everyone. In Japan, you're supposed to take it with a smile if you want to keep your job so it's her fault for opening her fat mouth.

>>6896968

>>6896998
Okay, usually I side with you v-chans on this, because I need your delicious jelly for my toast, but she didn't say anything publicly until after she was fired. Come on guys. I'm hungry!

>>6897035
I think >>6896998 meant whining to her boss about being bullied? idk

>>6896998
You'd like it if she just took your bullying, wouldn't you?

>>6897041
She mentioned somewhere that she complained to her boss and he did nothing. Tocco's mails mention how it annoys him when she runs to the 3rd floor whenever something happens so I assume they are on the 3rd floor and she went crying there like a little bitch often.

hottttt

Oh I got a blacklist story for you:
> see hat I want in sale
> it's sold out
> a kind seagull mentioned it was back in stock
> rush onto site to buy
> not exactly a "royal customer", but have ordered enough for the initial transaction to go through safely
> do not receive the second email within the alloted time
> email to see what do
> very polite, mention I want to do everything properly
> receive email from Tocco telling me in her usual way to not worry; because it's a sale, things are taking a while "please wait a few more days".
> wait a few more days
> receive email telling me I have now been blacklisted because I didn't pay
> I fucking just. No. Fuck.

So I tell my friend, who runs a lolita store, like a "look at this bitch" deal. She tells me about how useless Tocco/Sana is. I wouldn't even bother with Baby anymore after this and just order through this friend anyway. Her workload is just too much if she can't even remember to invoice someone for one measly hat.

>>6897145
God this worries me. I ask questions pretty frequently on items that look sold out. ...I'm just waiting to get on the black list. I mean I've been ordering since the international money order days but still. Urg.

>>6896998
Yes in glorious japan you take it like a little bitch and the biggest achievement you'll have in life is making tea for the boss. Afterwards you can marry a salaryman, spend his money on brand and cheat on him with a college kid.

>>6897171
Sorry, had to repost below. My story is annoying because it was back in stock too. Some other poor sucker probably got blacklisted before.

Oh I got a blacklist story for you:
> see hat I want in sale
> it's sold out
> a kind seagull mentioned it was back in stock
> rush onto site to buy
> not exactly a "royal customer", but have ordered enough for the initial transaction to go through safely
> do not receive the second email within the alloted time
> email to see what do
> very polite, mention I want to do everything properly
> receive email from Tocco telling me in her usual way to not worry; because it's a sale, things are taking a while "please wait a few more days".
> wait a few more days
> receive email telling me I have now been blacklisted because I didn't pay
> I fucking just. No. Fuck.

>>6896968
Someone mentioned something like that on GTFO.
Asked about a sold out item, didn't want alternative so was blacklisted. Do they actually want custom?

>>6896876
It's really common for people to not get an invoice for an item and get blacklisted because of it. Or if they order an item and it's out of stock, they get blacklisted. Or if they email and ask if they can combine shipping on items, they get blacklisted.

>>6896946
If their only translator (who has worked there for six years) can't comprehend simple English, it's not really a job she should have. Other brands have excellent service, even when their English isn't amazing, so it's really just Baby that's the problem here.

>>6897173
Sounds like a plan.

>>6897211
Guess they don't care about foreigners. It really does sound like they are treating it as a privilege for us to be able to buy from them, especially with how itchy Tocco's blacklist trigger finger is.

What do you guys hope to get out of this? Because Baby isn't going to do shit about it. Although it's quite amusing how Rosaire thinks she's going to bring Baby down.

>>6897336
Where did she say that she is bringing Baby down? I have to see this.

>>6897336
Meanwhile she is pro btssb.
get your fakes right V chan! T___T

>>6897336
>You shouldn't let this put you off of buying Baby clothes. It certainly hasn't had that effect on me.
http://getoffegl.livejournal.com/582322.html?thread=38766514#t38766514

Am I misreading?

can I have a copy of the translated conversation?

>>6897411
>>6891361

>>6896063
Might as well boycott all Japanese things because unfortunately Isobe attitude towards is not uncommon.

>>6897336
god you need to jump in a river wearing chain mail, vendetta chan

seriously

I think the poor customer service is part of the charm.

also I got mine from Japan so yeah.

>>6897460
lol'd

>>6897353
>>6897460

Ok, she isn't bringing baby down, but she sure loves to drown in drama. She is making herself look like an ass out of all this.

>>6897473
How so?

>>6897473
You're the one that makes drama out of her. You make yourself look like the mushy shit that comes out of a horse's ass. Constantly.

Morning, ladies. Vendetta-chans are here bright and early I see. Good, time for some breakfast.

>>6897478

The way she's handling this whole thing, etc. There's so much holes, and we only hear from her side. That doesn't mean I support Baby though.

>>6897480

Geez, I'm sorry she decided to jump in that drama. It's totally my fault. How long has Rosaire been lurking these threads?

>>6897484
Well then go message Tocco and ask her for her side.

So what happened to the rest of those e-mails?

>>6897488
She won't show them all. That's the problem

>>6897489

Rosaire has been making these threads, hasn't she? I know she has been posting, and it has been asked before. Why hasn't she post them? There's a large amount of content compare to the selective ones she released.

>>6897563
I don't think she's making them, but I do know she's lurking.

>>6896208
firstly, i am not a shopping service. i just run a blog out of my own free time. i don't know any chinese lolita brand owners in person, i just follow them on some chinese-twitter-like website. i actually run the blog in anonymity so none of my SS's know about me. (i doubt they use tumblr anyway)

>>6896263
>(and they dislikes the japanese)
The Mainland Chinese lolitas on weibo reblog Japan-related anime/lolita/kawaii/japanese shit as often as any of you on your tumblr so I don't know if they hate Japan as much as some other Mainland Chinese do. Don't forget - China has a massive population - so personalities really run the gamut

All in all, don't you know /cgl/ is being watched by China ALL the time? There is a weibo fanpage for /cgl/ that cross-posts whatever's uploaded by seagulls on 4chan. Upload a co-ord here and it's posted on China the next day. You don't need me and my half-baked Mandarin to stir some shit; if the Chinese found this drama-worthy they'll probably have circulated it among themselves by now.

>>6897585
>There is a weibo fanpage for /cgl/ that cross-posts whatever's uploaded by seagulls on 4chan.
Seriously? Do you have a link to that?

>>6897595
weibo.com/4chancgl

also i don't know who this person is but she just stalks cgl a lot anyway:
http://www.weibo.com/lolitanatsumi

>>6897585
I wondered about /cgl/ in China. We always have Chinese anons around to help in the Taobao threads and it's great.

>>6897624
4chan is blocked for chinese people (as in moot has blocked chinese IPs to post, not opposite). So the chinese anons that are posting don't usually live in China.

>>6897638
I was in China six months ago. Not true.

It is slower, though.

>>6897641
Really? I was in China last summer, and when I tried posting on 4chan it said that my country's IP was banned or something. Maybe they changed it.

>>6897638
Are you completely talking out of your ass, or do you actually believe this.

>>6897648
probably depends on the ISP.

>>6897648

I know some locals who visit 4chan. They seem to like finding people to socialize on here or omegle.

>>6897650
I just searched on it, seems like moot banned China for a while because they spammed a lot.

Unpopular opinion time! I actually kind of feel bad for Aoki. I don't know how true this is, so correct me if I'm wrong, but an anon in the last thread mentioned that complaining about services in Japan is actually frowned upon. If you get bad service, you're expected to just keep it to yourself and stop buying from them. Here in Amurrica, if something isn't to your liking, it's perfectly acceptable to voice your concern, and you'll get a polite thank you or whatever. Over there it probably comes of as incredibly rude. It sounds to me that Aoki doesn't know at all how to handle dealing with a complaint from a customer, because that's just not a thing over there. Having to deal with all the emails (and seeing her responses pasted all over the internet) has probably caused her to REALLY resent Americans, and she probably just doesn't know any better.

That's just my two cents about all the random blacklisting. As for the whole situation with Rosaire, it just goes to show how much Aoki let's her emotions get the best of her.

>>6896626
>Replacing her with a foreigner would be really funny
If Baby cares about their foreign sales at all (or is even aware of any of this going down), this is their best bet to bridge the culture gap.

>>6897624
There are many people who are Chinese (race) who speak Chinese(language) but are not Chinese (nationality)
Fuck English for being so vague about Asian people terms. In mandarin I can say this without all the brackets. But really, whether people in China can post in 4chan or not, I think most of the cgl regular translators aren't posting from Mainland China

>>6897675
Not knowing is not an excuse. If someone is going to work in foreign sales, then they should have known that foreign countries have a much different way of handling business. If you know you're going to be working with people from other countries, then you should know what to expect and how to handle it professionally.

>>6897423
It got deleted..

>>6897563
No, I don't think so. I made the first one, but not the two after, and I'm not Roaire.

>>6897752
We have an archive...

>>6897675
Innocent World has done it forever, and their customer service is great and people love them.

>>6897755
excuse my ignorance but I don't know how to use it

>>6897765
Go the rebeccablacktech and use the search option

>>6897585
So I take it that they don't care about it enough to post it?

>>6897772
No, the /cgl/ Weibo page is just an app that only reposts images.

>>6897685
I really don't care about this whole thing, but I agree very much with what you said.
If I were to apply for a job that deals with, for example, mostly japanese clients, I would be expected to research and know how to handle a hand-full of possible situations - or I would not get/be out of a job.
And what about learning from past experience? Surely she could adapt after having the job for so long.
But in the end, people were, are, and always will be lazy. No one takes pride in his or her work ethic. Just another reminder that life is taken for granted.

>>6897585
>hardly any views at the posts
>being watched all the tim

...you don't seem to know how Weibo works, don't you? The most accounts that are fans from that account are bots from shops.

>>6897770
Thanks anon!

>>6897772

Ha. Fight your own battles you unkawaii piggu gaijin.

Weren't there issues YEARS ago with BABY complaining about how obnoxious English people were? That they were rude or something? Or even something as simple as a miscommunication in Japanese etiquette?

>>6897804
Just want to point out that Chinese lolitas are included in Tocco's hateboner against all international lolis, even more so since apparently she hates Chinese people.

Also, I'm ethnically Chinese so.... fuck you?

>>6897824
English people specifically or just English-speakers? Because the latter kind of rings a bell, I don't remember anything about the former.

>>6897836
Hahaha, lol, I'm retarded. I meant English-speaking people. Brain cramp.

But yeah, like 2008 or something, there were issues.

The sad thing is I would love to see a successful boycott of BABY in retaliation, but I know that will never happen. It would be interesting to see if and how much the loss of sales would hurt the company.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand the atmosphere in Japanese business, but it is really, really common for them to hate foreigners, to look down on them as inferior. (Japan certainly isn't the only country to do this, but.)

So BABY probably has little incentive to change, socially or financially.

>>6897903
This is sure why they often write about themself being 'the loyal dogs of the white master race'. The most don't like koreans in the terms of foreigners but that's it.

>>6897910
Your English sucks. What the fuck are you talking about.

>>6897910
Yes, because that's what "Asia for Asians" in WWII was about, right, being loyal dogs of white people. The Rape of Nanking happened because they only hated Koreans, yeah? And their torture methods on the Allies (including sticking bamboo up people's asses and allowing for the bamboo to grow) occurred because they had such huuuge respect for white people.

>>6897923
We are talking about now and not WWII.

>>6897916
Your reading skills must suck, I can understand it just fine.

I'd do the overseas orders for Baby but they require you to come in at least 4 days a week from 10 to 7 for what should be a part time job. Nobody can work those hours for only $10/hr full time.

>>6897931

So can I, but it was still shit.

>>6897927
Are you trying to claim that those sentiment don't still exist in Japan's culture today?

>>6897932
No wonder she hates her job so much.

>>6897931
Sure, samefag.

>>6897932
>$10/hr
Wait, seriously? I made more than that as a kid working summer jobs. And I didn't have to makes ends meet in one of the most expensive cities in the world with that money, that's fucking crazy.

WOW after reading this thread... i don't care about rosaire and the stuff but damn you bitches got really asshurt. i will never buy from btssb direct- it was not the first time they are stupid to customers.but no i will not support a brand with this opinion. ..so there are enough second hand items and maybe replicas.

>>6897952
consider cost of living though, which varies based on country, city, and provonce

>>6897952
My best guess is that the "free dresses" Aoki gets from BTSSB is considered a bonus, to help make up for the crappy pay.

>>6898130
You get staff discount I think.

>>6897903

There's only one thing that I find depressing out of this whole thing. Western lolitas will keep on buying from Baby. Grow a fucking spine ffs.

>>6898155
Actually, this would not be very effective. Baby doesn't actually gain much by selling overseas when all is said and done. All they would do if foreigners boycotted is potentially close their doors to overseas customers and not that many fucks would be given on their part.

one of Tocco's friends posted on the entry. Getting a bowl of popcorn ready!

>>6898155
>>6897903
Actually, this would not be very effective. Baby doesn't actually gain much by selling overseas when all is said and done. All they would do if foreigners boycotted is potentially close their doors to overseas customers and not that many fucks would be given on their part. Believe it or not, them having overseas service in the first place is more beneficial for their fans than it is to them.

>>6898174
I really think foreign orders get them more money than people keep saying even just going by the amount of new prints I see on DL and people talking about reserving this and that on EGL, and of course their physical overseas shops.
Sure they could survive without us just fine, but they'd be losing a significant chunk of money. All those lost potential orders of $300 dresses would add up pretty fast.

>>6897180
Please tell me you didn't just leave it at that and you called out the intense bullshit.

>>6898175
Someone better pull out some popcorn gifs.

>>6898179
Yeah, but it costs them a lot to sell to overseas customers. Sure, they get a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it period, but it's not that much especially compared to what they make domestically.

Either way, it's no excuse for shitty service and blacklisting all those people unfairly has to hurt business even if just in a small way.

I once tried to order the Masquerade Theater skirt in ivory directly from the site and never got the invoice. That was the only time I tried directly buying from Baby online and after reading all these stories, I don't think I ever will. I'll be sticking to the stores and second hand shit, thank you.

>>6898185
As much as I would love to say I kicked up a stink, I was far too stressed and rundown with other shit to do anything but decide blacklisted or not, I wouldn't be ordering directly from Baby.

Could someone post the original caps of Rosaire and Aoki's conversation where she calls us all uncute pigs or whatever?

>>6898205
I wouldn't want to either after that.

>>6898209
Aoki never said that. She called Rosaire a pig and said foreigners have no cute sense and most customers are attention whores.

>>6898212
I did a search on RBT and found this. Is there more conversation between them or is it just this?

Either way, I find it hilarious that she's saying that foreigners are never involved in the lolita design process because they don't have a good idea of cute... when the entirety of lolita fashion is influenced by Western designs throughout history.

>>6898218
There are a few more in the same thread that one was in, as well as one that was all in English that was never reposted here.

>>6898218
But I bet you wouldn't have come up with the super cute name "some day of ranunculus" you baka na gaijin

>>6898193
How does it cost them a lot? Apparently they only have one employee doing it on a shit wage. The customer pays the shipping fees. Overseas physical stores and events cost money, but I don't see how just the web shop shipping internationally would be a financial burden.

so tldr, I'm supposed to boycott baby because one of their workers hates chinese and fatties? I'm lost

>I posted this after I left so I don't need to be professional.
Wow have you never had a real job in your life?!

>>6898284
She's only ever been an English teacher. That isn't a real job.

>>6897927
People never forget.

>>6898176

The goal isn't about their sales. I thought people have such thing as pride? People are being such hypocrites about this whole thing. Baby is racist? Oh noes! I better get someone else to buy me their stuff so it looks like I'm hating them and standing up for myself. Hehe.

Oh snap! LJ thread is getting juicy!!!

>>6898330
>I've been her friend for 5 years!! That means she can't be a bitch!!!

lol

>>6898336
hmmmm i wonder...who does 'T' chan know from the netherlands!!

>>6898336
scarlet... scarlet ...scarlet! I really hope you do manage to get tocco's version of events.

>>6898330
When she said you were a pig, you were obviously asking for it! No wait, you were misinterpreting it! Well I'll talk to her, my sweet angel!

Actually what I don't get is this:

>I still can’t approve the whole ‘I hate you for offending me so I am going to spill your personal details on the world wide web so everyone can hate on this bitch’ approach.

What personal details did rosaire spill... other than the fact that she's the bitch behind the blacklist and is a bitch about foreigners?

>>6898345
exactly we know nothing else about her other than the emails and that she works for baby.

>>6898349
and her facebook don't forget the facebook! that's probably what she is most butthurt over!!!

>>6898345
The link to her personal Facebook profile, which has no information on it that she works for Baby. Judging from the fact that it's gone now, Rosaire must have gotten several people to harass her.

>>6898354
No her facebook still exists, the name has changed to 'Tocco Christiana', which took me a milisecond to find because when I typed in 'Tocco' on the search tool it came up with the profile with it's new name.

>>6898354
Except people know that Aoki works for Baby, as evidenced by the public post where she sent someone a dress as a present.

Also, the link was not a private link.

>>6898370
That's still giving out her personal information... It's pretty much asking people to harass her

>>6898442
has anyone harassed her?????

>>6898130
>>6898148
There's a thread in the memories about this somewhere...brand staff needs to purchase their own dresses to wear to work. They don't get them for free. (Probably a discount though.) Just, uh, fyi.

>>6898442
Things that you can Google are unlikely to be "personal information".

>>6898442
That's like saying that because someone linked rosaire's tumblr, they're giving out her "personal information"

>>6898330
>>that's libel

Folks, ya'll lolitas need to learn a thing or two about how defamation works. Every other week around here someone threatens libel lawsuits without even knowing what libel is, let along how to prosecute a case.

>>6898634
Enlighten us, oh wise one.

>>6898330
sauce?

>>6898636
Pardon my autism, can't tell if serious or sarcastic.

>>6898645
I'm serious. Let's here it.

>>6898647
Heh, sure. Uhhh let's see if I can make this readable....

Libel is...
- a false statement
- made knowingly by the defendant
- to the public (in written format)
- which causes harm to the plaintiff

The plaintiff must prove that the statement
- was false
- caused harm
- was done "without adequate research into truthfulness" aka intentionally

Calling mean names and giving negative criticism are not libel. Stating lies privately, or even lying to one's employers, is not libel. If Rosaire was fired because Sana made false statements to the employers, she could perhaps sue BABY...but not for libel, since Sana's statements were never made to the public.

Sana as an individual might be able to sue for libel (in the US) if it cost her job or something, and could prove the above. However, I honestly think Rosaire would be protected by the concept of "public interest", which is to say she was releasing the info to the public community in to protect our financial interests. (And of course it seems like the statements are not "intentional lies" at all, even if some of them are untrue.)

BABY might be able to sue/counter-sue Rosaire for some breach of contract or release of information or something. However as a company rather than a "private figure", for libel I believe they would have to prove malicious intent on the defendant's part. (In addition they would have to prove "harm" to the company's rep, too, which would probably be loss of sales due to a wrongful boycott.)

Additionally, throwing the words "sue" and "lawyer" around are dumb unless you go get a lawyer and have them send notification on proper letterhead. (Basically.)

Note that this doesn't include laws in Japan, though I am unsure if the Japanese courts would claim jurisdiction. Either way, prosecuting international cases is always difficult and costly...would a company, lawyer, or judge really think some internet name-calling is worth the time/money/effort?

>>6898695
Also note that I am not a legal councilor or lawyer or anything, I've just a lay-person with a bit of experience in e-lawsuits. I could be totally wrong.

>>6898695
>Note that this doesn't include laws in Japan, though I am unsure if the Japanese courts would claim jurisdiction

Sooooooooo. what's the point of your high & mighty BS when both rosaire and Tocco are in Japan and would be held under Japanese libel law?

>>6898695
Nobody really thinks rosaire is going to get sued, it's just a hilarious prospect so we love discussing it.

>>6898698
>>6898695
>>6898698
>>6898695
>I'm not a lawyer
>this doesn't include Japanese law (the law applicable in this case)
>I could be totally wrong
>yet acting like your shit don't stink in >>6898634

R u srs right now? Your name is very apt.

Has this hit tumblr yet?

>>6898709
I'm surprised it hasn't. If Misako saying that tanning isn't lolita blew up, what would a BTSSB employee actually being xenophobic do?

Really amused that Tocco changed her FB name. Wonder why.

>taking failita seriously

Ohohoho. You guys got trolled hard.

>>6898719
backpedal faster, failita.

>>6898716
She doesn't want her friends to realize she thinks foreigners are shit.

>>6898716
Probably because she was being harassed

>>6898716
Doubly amusing that she changed it to something that sounds real foreign

>>6898729
>Probably because she was being harassed

LOL Yeah right. Keep trying, vendetta-cunt.

>>6898731
Yeah I'm sure Rosaire and her few rabid fans would never resort to something so immature.
Oh wait

>>6898733

OOHHHH!!! That's why she's not busy shitting up this thread. It makes so much sense now...

>>6898736
She just posted on her facebook that she is in pain and feeling bad so she has an alibi. Someone feeling sooooooooo sick wouldn't come here and start shit, you know?

i tried facebook slash tocco.christiana and it doesn't work. what am i doing wrong?

>>6898736
>Yeah I'm sure Rosaire and her few rabid fans would never resort to something so immature.

LOL. You're talking about rabid and immature? When the people obsessed with hating rosaire (aka you) not only tried to ruin her business and are still fucking obsessed with her, but hounded /cgl/ for like a day after the trio of lying cunt-rags got exposed, telling her to kill herself, go fuck herself with a knife, etc.

>>6898733
S-s-s-saaaaaamefagging.

>>6898745
>calling other people immature
>stalking the facebook of someone you constantly shit on
>posting about her for like 9 months at this point

>>6898749
you want /sweetocco

>>6898750
Think you need some more pain meds Rosaire. Won't help your multitude of mental problems tho.
>Vendetta-chans forever

>>6898754
lol dat new fb name.

>>6898750

Huh? I don't even know the story to whatever you're talking about. Is the drama too much for you? You sound like you're going craycray.

>>6898750
Yes it is all just a giant conspiracy
WE ARE ALL OUT TO GET YOU ROSAIRE

>>6898757
"no! you don't understand! I'm not a vendetta! EVERYONE hates her!!!!"
not to that creepy ass extent you do hun. you probably masturbate at night thinking of her tears

>>6898700
I thought rosaire was in the US, my mistake.

>>6898703
Yeah, I know nobody thinks that for reals. It just makes me chuckle to see "libel" thrown around so often.

>>6898704
>>6898719
You silly guys.

>>6898724
Yes, that was totally me. I am known to hide my shitty opinions behind anon because I am a coward, since I am afraid of what the comm thinks of me.

>>6898763
How did you know? Mmm dem sweet sweet tears of a mentally disturbed piggu-chan

>>6898762
pathetic samefagging. tsk tsk
I'm not even a rosaire fan. I don't give two shits about the girl honestly. I just love the whole BTSSB drama.

you know girl, de nile aint just a river

>>6898762
Didn't you use that excuse last time?

"ZOMG yes, octavekitten, infiniteneeya, and lingozero were all out to get you!" And they were, you delusional cunt trash, because they literally lied about what happened in an attempt to make her look bad. Then they got called out, and you cried, and stomped your little hooves on /cgl/ because you didn't get your way.

Oink oink oink snort snort

>>6898764
>I thought rosaire was in the US
>worked with Tocco
>who works for Btssb
>in Japan

are you mentally retarded

>>6898766
It was all a plot. A DASTARDLY PLAN
MWAHAHAHAHAHA

>>6898778
are you twelve? get the fuck out

>>6898768
Maaaaaybe?

>>6898780
Better than being over 30 and splattering a fight between myself and a coworker over the internet because I got fired for being shitty at my extremely basic job

So no one here can dislike Rosaire? Is she really 30?!?!

>>6898783
... Not really?

She has a business. She makes money.

You sit on your computer and obsess over her, constantly posting about her, trying to ruin her business, trying to ruin her reputation, freaking out about everything she does, and shitting up every thread you can with your creepy, weird, sad vendetta about her. You constantly samefag about her--you're doing it right now.

And why? Because she's fat? Because you missed out on an item you wanted during reservations that she didn't get for you? Or because she said something meanie-weenie about your favorite SS and you can't get over it?

It's pathetic. You're pathetic.

>>6898793
If you say anything bad about her at all, then you are an obsessive mean nasty vendetta-chan

>>6898813
Lol. Yes only like 2 people in the world dislike Rosaire. And have no lives. Ok piggu-san

>>6898819
Quit responding to yourself. You're not doing yourself any favors by saying in one sentence "you can't say aaaaaaanything bad about her, or you're a mean nasty vendetta-chan!" and then pulling out your regular vendetta-chan BS in the next sentence.

My god, you are a waste of space on this earth. and I've never said that about anyone before.

>>6898813
>>6898832

Wow. I'm not even the person you guys are talking about. I hope the other samefag finds this amusing, cause this craycray shit is hilarious.

Sp Tocco has been trying to make her own brand? Damn I want pics of the attempt.

i don't know what "sana" looks like, but the other girl isn't cute. anyone have pics?

>>6898923
Tocco is "Sana"

>>6898728
What's her new name?

>>6898925
googled, ehhh...she does look kinda old, but has "cuter" features i guess.

>>6898929
>>6898754

oh god this basic ass "fly me to the moon" cover, holy shit

Could anyone post link to sana's facebook?

>>6899087
>>6898933

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but this is Tocco's reply to the whole incident:

"I received much report from my friends that
I was slandered by Ms. L.B in the net. (EGL)

She believes that she had been dismissed from BABYSSB because of me.
Unfortunately, all staffs wanted her to quit.
This kind of people always expose only information advantageous to themselves.
It's very uncivilized.

If you were a polite, and the people who has the common sense,
you will understand how her action is uncivilized.
I am going to sue her for libel after this.

This is the reason why she was not able to be welcomed by the staffs of BABYSSB.
Though I have her personal information from LinkedIn
which my friend gave me,I never show it here.
I don't want to fall into the same level as her.
She is very pitiable person.

I wish her to recover soon, though She told me that she has mental disability."

From Tocco's facebook. While everyone is understandably angry from the remarks she made, it is very hard to understand the full story behind this whole issue. I wish Tocco could come out to clarify this whole matter, but I would also understand why she would not.

>>6899151
Writing that she has a mental disability is pretty gross. Tocco is no better.

Sounds like Rosaire is just dragging egl in to be her personal army for her fight with some girl. Classy.

>>6899177
No it doesn't. It just sounds like she was buttmad so she revealed the identity of Sana and some of the things she said, then Tocco caught wind of it and is trying to play the victim.

>>6895960
I'm 5'7", 38,2 bust, 28,13 waist. All these part-shirred dresses lays like babydoll dresses on me. I fit well only in dresses with fully shirred back.

>>6899188
Playing the victim is a common defense mechanism in Japanese culture. Tocco is doing it in response to the online harassers. BTSSB will do it towards any international customer complaints or boycott (foreigners are being mean to us, waaaah!), thus validating their already-present xenophobia.

Even if we the international customers make our "outrage" shown online, both Tocco and BTSSB will not take it seriously because it's considered unsightly and unseemly.

But playing victimhood is also the only way shit can get done. If anybody wants to actually make BTSSB change to be better towards international customers, a prominent Western customer or business partner to BTSSB will have to arrange for a one-on-one appointment with Isobe. All doors closed, nobody else can witness it. Then the customer must give a list a grievances to Isobe, about how THEY'RE the victim -- not Isobe and BTSSB. How BTSSB has caused them serious harm in business terms and/or personal suffering. Isobe has to be given a list proving how their customer -- not BTSSB -- is the greater victim in this situation.

Whoever one-ups the victimhood in a one-on-one confrontation, wins.

Internet harassment won't change anything, except further strengthen BTSSB's perception that their international customers are uncouth, underhanded spoiled brats.

>>6898358
Post been deleted?? Huh? Why are posts being deleted?

>>6899385

Pretty sure you can find them in the archive anyway. It was just Rosaire shitting up the thread.

>>6899387
but all your posts were deleted, vendetta-cunt

>>6899388

I still see my posts in this thread.

>>6899387
I can still see them on here, but even normal posts have been deleted.

>>6899365
Has anyone actually harassed her, though? You'd think people would know better.

New update in the getoff post, scarlet_penta posted Tocco's mail explaing her side and claimed that Tocco is actually not Sana.

This is getting too good. What do you think seagulls?

Friend of Tocco has posted Tocco's side of the story in the form of an email on GTFO.

>>6899657
It's basically he said, she said.

Though the people that loathe rosaire are sure to come in and pick apart that email for new fodder for their obsession, in any case.

>>6899658
Cap. Please?

I still don't get what personal details rosaire supposedly posted here.

A public link to a publicly available Facebook page.

Emails where there is no identifying information.

????

>>6899675

>>6899669

>>6899678

>>6899679

>>6899679
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about too, since I was pretty sure a lot of people said that Sana no longer worked for BABY before the gtfo post.

>>6899681
>since I was pretty sure a lot of people said that Sana no longer worked for BABY before the gtfo post

I've never seen anyone say that. Links?

>>6899693
I don't really remember where I read it, but I have seen it several times before. I think someone also mentioned it in the former btssb thread.

>>6899699
so another he said, she said?

>>6899703
Never said it wasn't, just wanted to mention it.

>>6899703
Well, now we have more context, at least. Like why Tocco was telling Rosaire that foreigners can't design. The girl posting the email seems reasonable enough, so I think what she said was accurate- that it's really an issue of cultures clashing.

More importantly, I think the reveal that Tocco isn't necessarily Sana is a bigger deal.

>>6899712
The problem is, in either situation, we're having to go by what someone says. Is the context that Tocco provides real? Or just a case of her making it up to void herself of culpability? Is what Rosaire blocked out personal info she didn't want to expose about herself or Tocco, or something that would give us a better understanding of what's going on?

The Tocco girl sounds sweet as pie in her email to her friend... except of course she was being a nasty bitch in her emails to rosaire.

Rosaire says one thing, Tocco says another. Who do we believe? It's very easy to craft lies in both cases, because there's no way for us to back any of it up. Rosaire does have evidence of Tocco being a bitch, but with so much of the emails blocked out (for personal reasons or whatever) it's difficult to tell context. With Tocco, we have an email from her defending friend where she lays all of the blame on rosaire.

>>6899733
I think they're both insane and that no one should be defending either of them.
Tocco sounds like a different person entirely in both sets of emails, though.

>>6899744
>Tocco sounds like a different person entirely in both sets of emails, though.

well, in one email she's being blunt/honest/unfiltered with rosaire, and in the other she's sending in her defense to a friend that she knows will be posted online.

>>6899757
I've worked with people that are just like that. They're vicious in private and extremely sweet/level-headed whenever they need to do damage control. Fuck 'em.

>>6899675
So... When she was buying from Baby as an SS, did she mention to her customers that she pockets more and doesn't pass on the savings?

Sounds like Baby customers should be pissed at Rosaire for screwing up their orders.

>>6899849
Do we know she actually screwed up these orders?

I'm surprised at the lack of responses regarding Tocco's reply.

>>6899853
http://getoffegl.livejournal.com/562591.html
http://getoffegl.livejournal.com/562116.html

>>6899916
Because someone defending bitchy shit like "oh, it's okay if she said she hates foreigners and fatties, she's nice to me!" is not going to garner a lot of sympathy.
Did anyone ever doubt that Rosaire did stupid shit to get herself fired?

>>6899921
???

Providing the posts where octavekitten/lingo/neeya got called out for lying is relevant because?

>>6899934
>"I really don’t want to be impolite here but if you fail to see how it is not okay and unprofessional to pull a company and its coworkers through slime and mud after you’ve had negative dealings with them then I don’t know what else to say about the matter.."

>>6899744
basically this. and of course, none of this explains then, if it's all "cultural/business differences", why baby blacklists people for asking if items are in stock, not paying unsent invoices, or even from one girl i heard, they blacklisted her when she notified them of a sudden email address change. i'm especially calling bullshit that baby apparently can't/doesn't understand how to adapt to these differences, when other brands like IW and meta and AP don't have these issues on the same scale, when AP, at least, most certainly does the same level of business. i don't really care about the rosaire firing drama, i'd like to know what baby's real reason is for sucking at international relations

aaaaand enter rosaire! I wonder how she will respond to all those accusations of being a shitty worker.

>>6899989
Whine about it, as expected

>>6899989
She can do no wrong!

>>6900247
>>6900258
You should get a proxy if you're going to samefag--makes it less obvious.

>>6900258
But she admitted to doing wrong.

>>6900247
Giving her side of the story is whining? Then do you think Tocco was whining? Or is she not deserving of your creepy obsession?

>>6900247
>>6900258
Pathetic

What happened to Rosaire being so terribly ill that she can't be online?

I really hope the vendetta is just a troll because it almost pains me to think that someone can seriously be that retarded

>>6900272
where was this said

>>6900287
Honestly, I don't think it is. And I still think it's very very odd that octavekitten & lying co came in very quickly to that vendetta post about kicking rosaire out, all with stories that turned out to be lies. Like... idk. I don't know if it was one of them, or is still one of them, but it did seem coordinated.

>>6897638
I think they have to buy a 4chan pass because of spamming.
Similar things happened with Ukrainians.

>>6900339
oh is it that time in the thread again where we mention octavekitten?

>>6900447
Since she blatantly lied about what happened with rosaire and is at least tangentially connected to vendetta anon, it's only normal for her sorry ass to get brought up.

>>6900339
I know for a fact Neeya comes on here anonymously, and I'm sure Octave's around here somewhere. I wouldn't doubt that they have both been vendettachans in the past.

Rosaire responds

>>6900766
Honestly they both sound like teenage girls bickering to me.

so, both tocco and rosaire are craycray. though i am inclined to dislike rosaire more than i dislike tocco.

at the end of the day, this is just very unglamorous drama on both tocco and rosaire's ends; we the lolitas will never know about who is actually on the black list, how can you get removed, and whether there are ways to change baby.

>>6900833
why, because you're a jellyfat all assmad that you didn't get a chance to live the weeaboo dream of working at baby?

How does one even confuse, what was it, Italy and Brazil? They're on entirely different continents!

>>6900766
I posted in the other thread in response to this, but basically, I've never had a problem with rosaire's service, but her being completely inflexible and defending herself on every. single. sentence. is a bit sketchy to me. No one is 100% perfect so I'm having a really hard time with her saying basically NOTHING in those emails in true or has been fabricated or exaggerated in one way or the other. Also her responses to people being concerned about the legality is also a bit childish and super defensive. People were concerned and she just kind of wrote it off without realizing that people were just kind of telling her to be careful? I dunno, when you're the common denominator in a little of weird little drama storms, something has to be off somewhere if you're always going to say NOPE, LIES, FABRICATIONS, NOT HOW IT HAPPENED, I NEVER SAID THAT.

>>6900853

>in a lot^ of weird little drama storms

>>6900853
She didn't defend herself on every sentence. She went by paragraphs for the most part, and even admitted to wrongdoing.

She seems to have taken their advice seeing as she Lolitaburger'd the post.

>>6900833
>>6900837

You seem like the same person...

>>6900859
ok... I still feel put off by it. If you mean the part where she said she made the mistake of shipping, but then made the excuse it was her first month? I guess that counts as saying she made a mistake. I dunno, I'm afraid if I really go too much further I'll just be labeled a vendetta or a rosaire hater, which I'm not, I just feel like she's coming off saying the other girl is lying 100% when I feel like maybe she's not coming 100% clean either? Eh, whatever, I've never had a problem with her service, so I'll just keep the rest of my musings to myself and I doubt we'll see any of this go to court.

>>6900890
i'm not on tocco's side either but i agree. i can't explain it very well but her apology seems kind of insincere and arrogant? like she's not really sorry about causing trouble to co-workers, but wants it to be brushed off and tries to justify her mistake. and i also feel, that neither rosaire or tocco are revealing the whole truth - each one of them are only bringing up events that are advantageous to themselves, and for these (assumed to be) true events that happened, each party paints it in a light that favours herself while downplaying the other.

all in all, their personal dispute is not going to change baby or solve the problem of shit customer service...it's just their personal dispute.

>>6900879
>>6900837
no, you are the same person. you score some points for getting my response.

All of Rosaire and Tocco's shit.

All my WTFs at Shiverling's reasoning.

>>6900902
>all in all, their personal dispute is not going to change baby or solve the problem of shit customer service...it's just their personal dispute.
I actually think all this will make their customer service worse, if anything. If Tocco hated Americans for any reason, legitimate or not, this will just confirm her bias that we're all immature assholes.

> I'm not here for the he said/she said, but I find it interesting that you're saying Spilling someone’s personal details just like that because you have a personal grudge against her? and doesn’t make it okay for you to spill the dirt just like that because she got fired there but you had no problem posting plenty of personal details about rosaire in the defense of your friend?

> Well I can see how you might feel like I am doing so but I personally feel this is a different case as I am not PART of the actually drama but simply have information concerning the things mentioned in this thread.

So that means we can spill personal details about people involved in drama as long as we're not actually part of the drama ourselves? Awesome!

>>6901001
That doesn't make any sense to me. "I'm not PART of the drama... I just deliberately contacted Tocco so she could give me an email that we both knew I was going to post to EGL, which included potential personal details [which were actual more personal than a public facebook link which is what rosaire posted]"

>>6900992
You're talking about shiverling, the person who claimed that eating disorders weren't mental disorders because they were "next to" addictions on the DSM-IV. And told someone with anorexia to choke on a sandwich and die.

God, I hate shiverling.

>>6901017
>God, I hate whatever the shit I imagine shiverling has said!
How do you live.

>>6901052
Uh, no, bitch. Don't even try that shit. That is what you said. You said that eating disorders weren't mental disorders because you don't understand how the damn DSM-IV (now V) works and told someone with anorexia to choke on a sandwich. Don't even try to fucking backpedal out of that one. You are a nasty vile excuse for a human being and I would not be sad to hear someone threw steaming shit at your face.

>>6901060
i'm not shiverling as a preface, but based on her track record and responses, do you actually think she will give one shit about this comment? I've never seen her care/get upset in the past when people try and correct her, so I don't even get why people try any more.

>>6901052
Hey! Remember the time you compared eating disorders to base jumping? They're totes the same! Some people base jump, others willingly turn to eating disorders! Lolz

>>6901065
I don't care if she gives a shit, but I'm not here for the "ohh I never said that, you're imagining things."

>decide to look up shiverling + eating disorder drama
>glance at one freezepaged cgl thread

I mean I'm not surprised because 99.99% of what she says is pure bullshit, but holy shit.

>>6901073
yeah after watching people argue with her, she will find some way to back pedal and manipulate her words to mean something different, she does it every time i see someone argue with her. And she doesn't ever let it go, hence why I said I don't get why people even try any more. But yeah I'm sure she'll find some way to say or show that's not what she meant /eyeroll

>>6900853
>when you're the common denominator in a lot of weird little drama storms, something has to be off somewhere
Finally, someone with a bit of common sense

>>6900992
not gonna lie, I'm on Rosaire's side in this but I do understand her reasoning about stuff being lost in translation basically. If she's usually that catty to Rosaire, of course she's gonna describe someone as the Japanese equivilent of being batshit but literally translates to mentally ill. It's unfortunate but in no way should it be surprising to anyone nor should it be treated as something horrible because it's just friends gossiping with one another.

Would you consider making suicide threats as having a mental illness?

>>6901180
The issue isn't whether or not she has a mental illness. The issue is that she supposedly didn't tell Aoki she had one.

I just wish some piggu gaijin can get that aatp designer job advertised and can finally design some decent shit already. I feel like its been ages since I've wanted anything from them.

>>6901186
Seems to be pretty open about her medical issues, so maybe she did

>>6901081
She's a lunatic. Sensible people ignore her.

>so far that Body Line 4L doesn't fit her
omg what a huge piggu. Tocci is right.

>>6901197
She told Tocco what she has, but it's not a mental illness. Tocco just assumed that it was.

>>6901445
why haven't you killed yourself yet?

>>6901507
Probably because of the stigma against mentally ill people that Japanese people hold. Just another way to tease her.

this shit is getting so convoluted j.j. abrams is about to turn it into a tv show.

>>6901683
It's essentially just two people arguing back and forth.

>>6902990
As pretty as Scarlet is, why is she invited as a special guest? Is she that famous?

>>6903160
I'm going to assume she's a model because the other two are. But yeah, I didn't know she was apparently famous either. No wonder she gets free dresses.

>>6903160
>>6903172

Nah she's not really a model. I know she frequently helped out with Mfashion Lolita fashion shows in our country but she is primarily a singer. I actually like her sound but I think her main image isn't so lolita anymore these days. I read on her fb that she is doing an unplugged gig wearing full Lolita though.

Another unpopular opinion time... I side with Tocco. That's some fishy censorship on that message. I think things were taken out of context

>>6903201
So you think most customers are attention whores and worthless? No cute sense?

>>6903201
What kind of context would saying "you're like our regular customers = attention seekers" be appropriate?

>>6903506
Right? She could have just said "You're an attention whore", but apparently hates Baby's customer's so much that she has to bring them into every damn thing she says?

>>6903544
Where did this come from and is a translator in the house?

>>6904030
looks like the uncensored version of the mail >>6903201 was whining about

>>6904038
Well yes. I am asking where it was originally posted.

>>6904030
>>6904072
Assumedly, considering we know Rosaire is lurking these threads, she must have finally posted it (mostly) unedited. Unless she posted it elsewhere and someone else did.

>>6904072
>>6904411
What does it matter?

>>6903544

For the template and website you shouldn't use "we can't" or "we won't." I think it should be "it's unable to~."

Actually I'm a president with her own company! So while I can't work at Baby anymore, I can't leave everything related to international shipping to you and quit either.
I think you would fight with customers... the person who worked the foreign shipping before was quite aggressive too... she fought really hard with Y and X too.

For now, you've only been here for a month, so please continue until you are able to do what I have said without mistake without speaking much on the business.
Well, at least you shouldn't say things about the business I wouldn't say, since you just joined.
After you've been working a year or two maybe.
I'm pretty low on the totem pole, and you're even lower than me.

People at Baby don't particularly like foreigners, nor do they like people who butt in or talk too much, so I would like you to please quietly give your all while you are in the 3 month trial period. If you continue like this, your chances of staying are under 50%.

I shouldn't just come out and say this, but the reason no lolita brands have foreigners involved in the design process is because foreigners don't have the proper sense of what is cute.
This doesn't mean you're in the wrong, Lisa, it's just a cultural problem.
Good luck from here on, try to polish your sense of cuteness.

Also, while I didn't closely read the site/template, I think the meaning gets through well enough so we'll just leave it.
I had three Japanese who lived abroad and an American skim over it, and they seemed to get what it was saying, so doing it over would be a bother.

Also, most of the people who use the foreign site aren't even from countries that speak English.

>>6904751
Rosaire confirmed for twisting Tocco's words pretty harshly there then. This email isn't anywhere near as bad as it looked at first and is actually pretty moderate...

>>6904766
it's still just as bad. Being told your coworkers are xenophobic and to not talk for 3 months, and that only Japanese people know what cute is?

The "English" site is a trainwreck.

>>6904826
It seems like she's trying to tell her not to be intrusive, rather than not talk?

>>6904766
How is the email not that bad, and where did Rosaire twist her words about this particular email?

>>6904826
>>6904904

She didn't say not to talk for 3 months, she said that she's still really new at the business and should hold back until she understands the dynamic of the workplace better and is established there. Which is true; no one likes a newbie who thinks they know better than everyone else.

"You shouldn't say things about the business I wouldn't say, since you just joined." = Don't overstep your boundaries; don't say things your coworkers wouldn't say; wait until you know what's acceptable to say in your position and when/how to say it

Re: Cuteness
"This doesn't mean you're in the wrong, Lisa, it's just a cultural problem." That says to me that she's framing "cute" as "Japanese idea of cute" and acknowledges that it's a cultural gap. She's still wrong about that, but it's not GROSS GAIJIN PIGGUS CAN'T CUTE EVER PERIOD!! and she's giving leeway for Rosaire to not be blamed or attacked by it.

>>6904904
If you go back and look at the prior cap Rosaire cut out anything Tocco said that was reconciliatory and only included her harshest and easiest to misconstrue statements out of context.

She removes:
The line that says Tocco doesn't trust Rosaire with the full job because of Rosaire's personality and because she's had experiences with foreign workers causing fights before. She also removes the next line where Tocco reveals that Rosaire makes mistakes on the job (which corroborates the shipping issues she claims Rosaire had).

Everything that Tocco says about holding her tongue until she's an actual employee (not a newbie trainee) and understands the dynamics of their workplace, and to leave certain comments out entirely since they're only low-level employees, all of which was actually pretty reasonable. Tocco shows humility by saying she's very low on the company totem pole herself.

Tocco explaining that if Rosaire doesn't stop causing waves and do her job she'll likely be fired, especially since workers at Baby/Japanese companies already have a stigma against foreigners... Which reads to me more like Tocco trying to advise her so she can keep the job, NOT bullying her.

Tocco softening and explaining better her statement about cuteness

Tocco explaining that she did listen to and take seriously what Rosaire said about the English translation issues and had it double-checked by several people to be sure it was passable

All of which I feel says a lot about them both. They're both badly flawed here, there's no question, but Rosaire definitely edited the conversation really strongly in her favor and twisted Tocco's meaning by deliberately removing context that would paint a clearer picture of Rosaire's faults and Tocco's intentions.

>>6905133
To add to the 'cuteness' statement. In the email Tocco sent to her friend that was posted on Getoffegl to clarify her side of things, she explained that Rosaire had been giving unsolicited advice to a designer about their dress. Rosaire responded by saying that she's only complimented the designer on it and said that the colourway was really fitting for the print. In this case, it seems like it's a difference of opinion since Tocco thinks Rosaire was being rude, but Rosaire thought it natural. Either way, it's not exactly relevant because Tocco was referring to Rosaire's sense of cuteness (being not experienced to give advice to a designer), not the entire international customer base, which is what it had seemed like before.

>>6905133
And all of this makes it totally okay for Tocco to later call customers attention whores and worthless. Are you one of Tocco's friends, because you sure sound like one.

>>6904751
>the person who worked the foreign shipping before was quite aggressive too
And it has already come out that Tocco is only an occasional worker at Baby, and several people use the "sana" email address, so Tocco is probably not a gaijin-hater who blacklists everyone who looks at her sideways. Tocco's friend said she was not the one manning the email address during shoe-gate

>>6899678
>she called them "chunk of meat"

Fuck, why am I laughing so hard.

>>6905423
woops, left my fc from the Animal crossing thread.

>>6904751
Well, the tone of this is sure different without the censorship.